influenced ducey at the biddings of his then boss and 2024 rival. >> i think the record reflects i did check in with not only governor ducey but governors in states that were going through the legal process of reviewing their election results. but there was no pressure involved. >> you are clearly saying you did not pressure the governor, but were you being pressured by mr. trump to get those -- to influence doug ducey, and did you talk about this with the special counsel? >> no, i don't remember any pressure. >> let's discuss this with lisa rubin, and msnbc legal analyst. good to see you. let's talk about a couple of things there in that piece. pence said his call to ducey was to get an update. he passed information to trump that confirmed the election results. overall, how significant is this interview and our understanding of what went down? >> i don't know that it's that