figure may be way too low. the real number is likely to be closer to $400 billion. let's bring in my colleague ken dilanian. ken, i can't get nigh head around a number that big. >> this is a straf gee. straf gee, the biggest fraud in history. i've talked to the secret service at length. that's a low ball estimate. lexus nexus and i.d. me which have contracts with the states say fraud and unemployment programs alone is between $200 and $400 billion on top of the loan programs, the disaster relief fund and the ppp which could be another $160 billion. all together as much money as the new spending in the biden infrastructure bill. it's an epic fraud and in the case of unemployment, you might say well at least the money may have been stolen but circulating in the american economy? in the case of unemployment fraud, steph -- >> no one says that.
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