The last ves taj of what calm republicanism is ready to cough up. How else can you let this frankenstein monster, this doomsday machine, this sequestration go ber circumto damage and mor real to the people. Gentlemen, i wrant to start with you, michael, because i know youll disagree with me. I read a lot of reporting today that says great. Lets have sequestration. Lets cut 85 billion out of the economy. Lets remove hope from the country. I doubt that you read that it said take hope out of the country and ruin the economy. But i get your point. What i find interesting in your argument, chris, is that you seem to overlook the fact that you have just as Many Democrats out there screaming the same thing on the left. Starting howard deem. Also, the whole idea of sequestration emanated what office does howard dean own . Im just saying. Youre pointing and saying. It pushes both of these folks im sosh ri. I just want to check your facts. What Democrats Holding office in the Congress Want to see sequestration. The ones who voted for it. Starting with them. You mean this whole thing got passed just on republican votes . It was called kicking the can are you kidding . Im going to ask you again, do you believe right now there are any democrats in the house or senate who want to see sequestration . Yes. Name one. There have been folks on the record, chris. I cant name one off just one. At the moment, but there are check the records. There are democrats on the record just as there are republicans now a lifeline out there. I hope they call in right now because you need a name. Anyway chris, wait a minute no, chris, youre not going to name a name. Give me a second. Go ahead. Okay. Governor rendell, your thoughts. I think i know a lot of democrats who dont like sequestration because theyre afraid it will not only cut the government, cut government spending, which is already a problem with reduced government jobs out there, but actually really hurt the economy, certainly morale of the country. Your thoughts. Theres no question. Think of it, its alice in wonderland. Democrats are fighting to make sure we dont have willynilly cuts that harm the military strength of the country, and republicans are advocating for cuts that would severely diminish the military capability of our country. Its nuts, absolutely nuts. It is politics over whats good for the country. The president , chris, put a balanced solution of cuts, significant cuts, including entitlement cuts and raising revenue by making sure that everyone who makes 1 million pays a tax rate higher than the ordinary working person. Whats wrong with that . Thats what the polls say. Thats wrong with that. The New York Times suggested that Congressional Republicans are not concerned about how this fight will pan out for their party. They report, quote, House Republicans say they are feeling invulnerable to the current clash. Redistricting has made most of them immune to political threats and entreaties for many representing conservative district where the president holds little sway. An attack by president obama is a badge of honor. Here is some of the Tea Party Types we found today, just today, michael, who are backing the cuts. Ohio congressman jim jordan said back in october, quote, i would say the only thing thats worse than cutting National Defense is not having any scheduled cuts in place at all. Louisiana congressman Steve Scalise told dow jones business news, quote, the consensus is we want the sequester numbers to come in and finally reduce spending in washington. South carolina congressman Mike Mulvaney said we want to keep the sequester in place and take the cuts we can get. Georgia congressman paul broun, i want to see it go into place. And rand paul in his Tea Party Response to the state of the union said, not only should the sequester stand, many pundits say the sequester really needs to be at least 4 trillion to avoid another downgrade on americas credit rating. There you have a lot of people on the record, michael, on the republican side saying they want the sequester. Im curious why you contend this is not a partisan issue. Because it isnt, chris. Chris, it passed on a bipartisan vote. So unless youre telling me that those democrats, including those in the white house who supported who originated this idea of sequestration are now saying that that vote didnt matter, thats just ludicrous. Thats my only point. Yes, republicans have come to a point where republicans are now saying, yeah, okay, lets see what i think a fair analysis of this is that the democrats who voted for the sequestration, those who did thought that republicans would never put up with a big cut in defense. I think so they didnt mean it. They were just toying around with the economy. You could call it toying around. I can oh, yeah. Im not defending everybody that votes look, youre not getting the democrats off youre not getting your side off the hook on this and dropping it all on the republicans lap because thats the mantra and the spin you want to put on this. Okay. Both sides are equally responsible i have to examine that phrase, my fat off the hook. I just found that incredible as a metaphor. It must be an old time expression. Youre trying to get your fat off the hook. Thats a barnyard expression, i guess. Governor rendell youve lost so much weight i dont think that counts. The fat off the hook. I think it means the meat off the grill so the fat doesnt burn away. Am i right, michael . That works, too, governor. Well, i want to ask michael one question. Go ahead, take over. Michael, and i agree with you, democrats did vote and support the sequester, although i dont think Many Democrats, if any, would be for the sequester going into effect. But what is wrong with significant cuts in entitlements, more cuts than raised revenue when the only revenue were raising is on millionaires to make sure that they pay the same tax rate or slightly higher than ordinary working people pay . Whats wrong with that . Didnt we just do that . Hey, governor, didnt we just do that last month . No, let me respond to that. Let me respond to that. What we did the last time is we raised the rates, but we didnt stop rich people from having their accountants and tax lawyers oh, lord. Rip asunder that and wind up paying 15 . While a secretary pays 28 . You guys are just greedy. Youre just greedy. You want to spend, you want to spend, you want to spend. You dont want to deal with the debt and this deficit. This plan does deal two chairmen fighting. Lets look at the hardball scoreboard. Lets look at the latest poll numbers from bloomberg. President obama is at 55 approval rating, the highest hes been since the first couple weeks of his Administration Way back in 09. 55 , michael. Let this sink in. 55 job approval. Okay. I want it to sink in. Whats your point . Thats a point in itself. The Republican Party, which you still represent vaguely, is at 35 job approval. 35 for a Political Party that needs 50 to stay in the business. Look at this other number up to date. Who is to blame for whats gone wrong in d. C. Right now . 43 say Congressional Republicans. And by the way, theyre the ones you have to defend here, and 34 say obama and the democrats. I think these numbers are pretty scary if you are mr. Boehner. Chris, im not going to argue the politics on that. Youre absolutely right. The messaging of the gop has, quite frankly, sucked on this issue. Theres no doubt about that. But it still doesnt change the underlying facts that democrats, including the newly elected reelected president , are on the hook for this just as much as the republicans are. Neither side have effectively dealt with this. Weve left Simpson Bowles sitting on the sidelines. Weve now had Simpson Bowles two, no one is talking about that. Sequester is something that both democrats and republicans put on the table. And now everyone is acting like, oh, my god, were going to do this . Come on. So the republicans are losing the fight over public opinion, governor. Its usually important in politics, public opinion. Its not important until its time for an election. And the republicans are losing the fight and democrats are winning it, and the question is who is playing fair here . I dont think boehner is at fault. I think boehners problem and i use the phrase feeding time at the zoo very accurately i think hes keeping the right wing of his party now satisfied. They want the sequestration. They dont mind if government takes a big hit. Thats what they have been trying to do for years. Dont they benefit there . If youre in a far right wing district, arent you better off saying we wanted this and we got it, a big cut in government . Thats true for the people in the far right districts, but is it true for Patrick Meehan and fitzpatrick and dent in suburban philadelphia . Im not so sure. I think theyre risking losing the house. If john boehner had his druthers, he and the president back in august of 2011 would have entered into a grand bargain which would have had plenty of entitlement cuts, raised revenue, 5 trillion of debt reduction, and we wouldnt be facing these problems. But boehner took it back to the caucus, and the caucus said no. Is that fair, michael, what he just said . I think some of that is fair, yeah. Im not going to play the whole partisan card here and jump up and down screaming because im on your show. No, i think some of that is fair. You dont have to do that. You never do that. I never do that, but i think some of it just to bring it back into the real, i mean, i get the whole partisan game of wanting to put the blame on one side, but you know at the end of the day, that poll notwithstanding, the president also risked coming out of this thing on the 2nd of march a little bit more bloodied than he is today as do the democrats. Theyre all going to get hurt, but i do believe if the Republican Party were a united party today of the slightly or somewhat center right, a bit to the right, maybe a couple notches, it could come to terms youre going to give us just a couple notches . Thats it. Just a couple notches . How far right do you want to go . Until im comfortable. I think it isnt a bargaining party. Thats the problem, and the president needs somebody to bargain with like the israelis when they have a Good Government and cant find somebody on the other side of the river to deal with. Like i said, when i come into the room to bargain with you, i want you to still be in the room, and the president has often times left the room, too. I want to say, chris, the president has no fat on the grill. He has no fat on his body at all. Fat on the hook . Michael, lets get the metaphor. Fat on the hook . Fat on the hook. What in gods name does it mean . I think its on the waterfront. I think its how rod steiger ended up with that movie. Thank you, Michael Steele and ed rendell. Coming up, the karl rove schadenfreude express. He was bushs brain, the architect, the evil genius. Then came 2012. Now the tea party has declared war, and progressives are as happy as hell munching on popcorn and watching this whole spectacle. Karl rove is in the middle of trouble. Also, here is the latest critique of the gop appearing in todays washington post. The party has become too extreme, too ideological, its position is irresponsible. You might expect it from nancy pelosi, but its from virginias Lieutenant Governor bill bolling. Its republican Lieutenant Governor by the way. And things are pretty bad when republicans are talking that way about their party. And are prisoners at guantanamo getting federal benefits . No. Its an online joke that some republicans fell for. Let me finish with what happened to the Republican Party of 1960. It was all about civil rights, all for voting for civil rights and Voting Rights. You should see the numbers. Today its the party of Reince Priebus and all that Voter Suppression. And this is hardball, the place for politics. Hey did you know that honey nut cheerios has oats that can help lower cholesterol . And it tastes good . Sure does wow. Its the honey, it makes it taste so. Well, would you look at the time. Whats the rush . Be happy. Be healthy. The National Journal is out with its ideological rankings of every member of congress, and in the senate no republican is further to the left of the most conservative democrat. Totally polarized parties. Joe manchin of West Virginia is the most conservative democrat, but hes to the left of the most liberal republican, scott brown of massachusetts, who is no longer in the senate. The most liberal senators, new mexicos tom udall and Richard Blumenthal in connecticut. Jim risch of idaho is the most conservative. There he is all by himself. Well be right back. Welcome back to hardball. Politicking of course can be a blood sport, and karl roves critics must smell blood in the water. Democrats liked ws brain or the socalled architect or bushs brain, but now its conservatives who are on the attack. A Popular Tea Party group doctored up a photo of rove in a nazi uniform. Of course, they later apologized, but that picture is out there. On Fox News Sunday Journalist Bob Woodward slammed his new venture to broaden the base by selecting more winnable candidates for office. Lets watch that. Youre going to set yourself up as a kind of politburo vetting these candidates. I mean no, no, no. The whole theory of republicanism is to let the local state or district decide. I think rand paul had a right. Everybody has a chance. We believe in markets. Let people go in and participate. Its the opposite of politburo. Rove waited three days to jab back at woodward. The last time i checked, the politburo was the ruling body of the soviet communist party which enslaved hundreds of millions of people, oversaw the extermination of tens of millions of people, and during the cold war threatened the United States with nuclear annihilation. Just because woodward is a sort of center left journalist, he can get away with calling me a communist and nobody is bothered by that. Well, the source for roves troubles with the right are the result of spending hundreds of millions on losing candidacies and then lecturing the tea party on how to win. John feehery is a republican strategist, and wayne slater is the coauthor of bushs brain. Lets go to this, i want to go to an expert, wayne, about this guy, karl rove. I dont know much about karl rove, believe it or not. But it seems for me for him to wait three days and then have a big bee in his bonnet about the word politburo as if bob woodward meant to call him a commie. Victimhood used to be a democrat specialty. Whats he doing this for . Gee, whiz, hes calling me a communist. He only thought of it three days later. No problem at the time. Go ahead. Your thoughts. Thats the surprise. He really is usually much faster than this in his response. Hes quick to call himself a victim. He finds himself a victim of his own making. The making here is that he created or was part of the creation of a coalition bringing on social conservatives and proTea Party Types who have now turned on him because they feel used after the bush years, and now the millionaire billionaires who gave him all this 300 and, what, 28 Million Dollars feel used. So hes basically fallen into a trap, and when somebody says im like a politburo, hes really more like a 19th century monopolist. I want to be the guy who decides everything. Do you think people were madder at him, john, or madder at Bernie Madoff . Who are they maddest at . His percent return wait, his return on 100 investment, as if anybody only gave him 100, was 1. Thats 1. Thats 99 lost. You got it . Karl rove is a very smart political strategist. What happened . He was right on the immigration debate well before a lot how he helped design a governing coalition for george bush that won two elections. The problem is the Republican Party, the republican establishment, but the whole party lets not change the subject. I want to enjoy this for a moment. Here he was with megan kelly making megan kelly look even better than she is. Lets get a little look at this, please, if we can. Do you believe that ohio has been settled . No, i dont. It may be that barack obama wins the state, but it seems to me that, you know, you got a lot of votes yet to cast. Can you tell me whether you stand by your call on ohio given the doubts karl rove called. Were quite comfortable with the call in ohio. He have megan kelly winning her polk award basically because of him. He wasnt the only one. Almost every conservative, including me, thought we were going to win this election, and we were all surprised when did you go in and question the returns . Did you question the analysis of the returns like did he . I didnt, but i didnt have the data. Did he . Karl rove is a smart guy. I usually i think did he think he could bully them out of their prediction . I thought he was stunned. I think we were all stunned, and then you know what you know the guy personally. I thought he went into the room thinking he could talk the analysts out of the results. His willpower would somehow overwhelm them, megan and the other guys. I remember sitting at a table in 1990 in New Hampshire talking about filling out a napkin about why with great sets of numbers george bush was going to win the New Hampshire primary. He lost the New Hampshire primary. Karl wins some, and karl loses some. No question. But youre right, the force of his personality, the force of sort of the intellect and the reputation allows him a lot of times to bully folks. Hes certainly tried to bully me. Well, bullies are almost like, you know, sonny liston, they cant lose until they cant win, you know what i mean . Liston couldnt be beaten as a boxer until he couldnt win again, and then muhammad knocked him out. Newt gingrich who is more likable, he or karl rove . Anyway Newt Gingrich slammed karl rove so he could make winnable elections. Here he is in an oped piece in the human events. Gingrich is reduced to writing there. He was simply wrong last year. Hes talking about rove. He was wrong about the president ial race. Watch a video of his blowup on fox Election Night about fox news calling ohio for president obama. He was also wrong about senate races. Republicans lost Winnable Senate races in montana, north dakota, ohio, wisconsin, pennsylvania, virginia, and florida. So whats this, karl rove getting attacked by all sides, the establishment, people like i dont know if they have an establishment but getting hit by everybody now. Hes getting blamed for everything, and its not his fault. He had a lot of money, and there was a lot of things he could have done better. The big problem for the republicans is they spent so much money on campaign ads and not enough money about organization. The one thing about barack obama that republicans attacked is the fact he was a Community Organizer. We could use a Community Organizer i think the problem is you dont know where to go with your base, which could cause problems in the general, or fight your base and lose them. Isnt that the problem . If they fight the wacko right and say we dont want you, they say well go third party somewhere. What they want to do, karl has over the years cultivated the far right of the party for particular gain, but now after a time they realize its really a problem. I mean, john is right, look, karl, as you know, is a very, very, very smart guy, but when i see him attacking ashley judd trying to make fun of ashley judd as a potential candidate in kentucky, then i have to ask, has the mighty fallen here . Is this really what its all about . Yeah, and she was good in double indemnity. That could be a mistake. She was actually she was actually great double jeopardy. In the movie bug where she locked herself into a room and was fearing something terrible was going to come in and get her, and now we know it was karl rove. Well done. I like the way you wove that together with rove. Thank you, john feehery. Thank you, wayne slater. We have much more on karl rove on the website. Be sure to check us out on facebook as well. Republicans fall for another fake news story. They keep falling for these. I think they want to. Could it be they want to believe this nonsense . This is coming up in the sideshow. You wont believe what they believe. And this is hardball, the place for politics. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. Its hard to turn off and go back to sleep. Intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you cant get back to sleep. Its an effective sleep medicine you dont take before bedtime. 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Intermezzo, like most sleep medicines, has some risk of dependency. Common side effects are headache, nausea, and fatigue. So if you suffer from middleofthenight insomnia, ask your doctor about intermezzo and return to sleep again. Back to hardball. Now to the sideshow. Early this week i told you that the state of mississippi only just got around to officially ratifying the 13th amendment to the constitution which bans slavery. Well, a professor went to see the movie incoln and did the research afterwards, and it was discovered even though lawmakers voted to ratify in 1995, the paperwork was never filed. Well, jon stewart went back to where it all began, 1865. Hello. Greetings and salutations. My name is jon stewart, and given the times, im obviously neither jewish nor on television. The state of georgia has voted to ratify the 13th amendment. Oh, delightful. Being the 27th state to so vote, the amendment is nationally adopted and slavery is abolished in these United States. There remains a few stragglers. Im looking at you magnolia state. How much longer are you going to wait . 148 years, that would be ridiculous, wouldnt it . After 148 years the state of mississippi has finally ratified the 13th amendment. So, mississippi, two things on the recent ratification. First, better late than never. And, second, this is pretty [ bleep ] late. Hes unbelievable. A late start and a very late finish, but at least it got done. Next, conan obrien will be hosting this years white house Correspondents Dinner in d. C. In late april. He headlined the event in 95 for bill clinton. According to the reviews at the time, scored hurricanes of laughter. You might need to get in your own wayback machine to recognize the setup material. I am honored to be a part of this event though. When i got the invitation, i was thrilled i would be speaking in the same room with the most powerful man in the country, and, well, then i heard judge ito canceled. But you move on. Judge ito, for those who forgot, was the judge in the o. J. Simpson murder case. Here is one from the political scene at a time when Many Democrats were becoming republicans. The first announcement is for the democratic congressmen present. Please refrain from switching parties during the dinner. Its very confusing to your waiter, all right . I understand nathan deal got the same dessert twice. We got to work that out. Nathan deal. He was one of the democrats who switched from democrat to republican after the 94 midterm election. A loss for the blue team. By the way, the danger right there is the danger of using topical material. It goes away. Finally, check out the headline from this military news blog. Guantanamo prisoners to receive gi benefits. Hopefully red flags are going up, right . This is a military news parody. A website called the duffle blog. The same idea as the onion, but the stories are military related. One citizen fell victim to the joke and sent a letter to mitch mcconnell. Was the issue put to rest by mcconnells office . Not quite. The senator bucked the question to the pentagon, and here is a look at the letter courtesy of wired magazine. I am writing on behalf of a constituent who has contacted me regarding Guantanamo Bay prisoners receiving post9 11 gi bill benefits. I would appreciate your review and response to my constituents concern. Well, in some alternate reality where the whole thing were true, wouldnt it be more than a single constituents concern that gi benefits were going to terrorists . Anyway, somebody in mcconnells office called it a humorous misunderstanding. You think . Another headline on duffle blogs site reads, syria to host iraq war reenactors. What people will believe. The gullible out there. Up next, the Republican Party has lurched too far to the right. Its one thing to hear a democrat say it, but a republican . And thats ahead. Youre watching hardball, the place for politics. Welcome back to hardball. Its not unusual to hear someone say the Republican Party has become to extreme and unwilling to compromise. Millions of voters said that on election day. But when an elected republican officeholder says it, its news. Enter virginias Lieutenant Governor bill bolling. He said not every Government Program is bad and not everyone who receives a Public Benefit is a freeloader. Its just a challenging time for the Republican Party when a conservative mainstream guy like me doesnt really feel comfortable with his party. The party has moved too far and its become too extreme and too ideological. Thats from the Lieutenant Governor of virginia. Those comments dont seem as surprising when you learn bill bolling is considering a run as an independent. Right now former clinton adviser Terry Mcauliffe is tied with Virginia Attorney general Ken Cuccinelli at 38 even. If bolling runs as an independent, he starts out with 13 to start with and could go higher, of course, much higher. But what makes his remarks so rare is hes saying the Republican Party is becoming too extreme for even conservative republicans. Tom davis is a former u. S. Congressman from virginia who also ran the Republican Congressional Campaign committee, and Chris Cillizza is managing editor of postpolitics. Com and an msnbc political analyst. I want to go to chris for the tight political analysis right now. This guy, bolling, gave a great interview to the post, and just to put it in context, he slam banged his Republican Party as everything you hear on this show a lot of times. Too far over, too intransigent, everything bad, wont negotiate, wont do anything for the country. Is that to set himself up as a centrist or slightly center right candidate as a general election independent candidate or is that just what he believes and hes angry . Well, look, i take him at his word. Im not going to question his motives. I think thats all we do here. Go ahead. I think it is what he probably believes. Hes a more establishment guy, but context matters. Look, this is a guy who in 2009 got pushed out of the race for governor by Bob Mcdonnell because Bob Mcdonnell was more conservative and better positioned to win the race. He stepped aside with the expectation from everyone in the Republican Party that in 2013 hed be the guy. Well, along comes Ken Cuccinelli, and the reality is its a convention there, a very small group of people, activists, conservatives by and large, that pick the nominee. Even in a primary im not sure bill bolling beats Ken Cuccinelli. So i think some of it is that hes kind of angry at the way in which his political fortunes have played themselves out, but i think part of it, too, is an expression of the kind of establishment, for lack of a better word, within the Republican Party who looks at some of the folks in a more conservative wing and says these folks are pushing us to a place that is going to get us losing elections, never getting the hispanic vote, and going to relegate us to Minority Party status nationally for the future, and weve got to speak out. So i think its a little bit of what he believes and a little bit of his own circumstances that have made him more willing to speak out. I always see you as more of a middle of the road republican. The question is what happened to your state, and you may lose an easy one. You could beat Terry Mcauliffe. Hes a democrat. Should beat him. Nine straight times our governor has come from the opposite party of the president. Right now its a close race, but if history is any judge, republicans should win it. They tend to reverse. These are nationalized elections for governor. And mcdonnell has problems with his thesis. It just didnt take. Voters were more interested in taking a message to washington. Thats been the repeated theme in virginia gubernatorial races. I keep thinking its the old question of politics. Do you go to your intensive hardline base risking losing some of the softer republicans in the middle and independents but knowing your crowd will show up or you bring on a guy thats considered too watery a republican or democrat and risking the fact your base wont show up. I think the calculation this time is the fact that this is an offyear election, and you want to intensify your base and bring it out in virginia. Because its not the general electorate. If everybody shows up, we know there are more democrats than republicans. Obama has proven that twice. But if you look at the offyear turnout models, its been much more republican. So work your base hard makes sense. So cuccinelli makes more sense. For you thats an odd thing to say. Im just talking about the raw political calculation. You still need to hold your party together. The last poll only showed 3 of republicans defecting. There will be so much money going back and forth. How does this vaginal thing, that crazy thing about requiring things to have abortion, how is that working in this state . Im sure its going to be in a lot of tv ads, but cuccinelli didnt vote on that. He was the attorney general. But a lot of legislators will have to defend that. Bill bolling also told the post, the Lieutenant Governor of virginia who says hes not going to run in the primary, it seems these days that compromise is a fourletter word in many peoples eyes. They view it as a sign of weakness, but in reality its the essence of a workable democracy. Chris, you and i cover this all the time. Hes talking the way the most middle of the road journalists call it, not knocking the right but saying you have to be able to negotiate. If you dont compromise on a lot of middle of the road things, how are you going to get anything done . Obviously theres some things you will never compromise on. And, chris, i would say i actually think take immigration and marco rubio. Marco rubio is not a guy i think most people would describe as a centrist moderate, but this is a guy who on immigration is saying, look, i understand that theres a part of the party thats never going to be happy with any kind of path to citizenship, but we have to come together at some point on some of these big issues if were going to move forward as a country. So i actually think its beyond just kind of the Jon Huntsmans and Michael Bloombergs of the world. I think haley barbour, the former mississippi governor and Republican National chairman, has said, look, were going to have to find some Common Ground. May not like obama and where we stand on the issue, but we have to find some Common Ground just to move the country forward and keep us sort of viable in the world of economy. Chris, i think youre more hopeful than me. I think the hard right being hard right, i watched that scene in arizona the other day, i think those people standing up to a guy like john mccain showed the Republican Party is definitely ruled almost by its hardest right. The hardest right seems to scare everybody else out. I have yet to hear an elected official take on Rush Limbaugh ever on any issue. Its still the hard right that makes the noise. Thank you. Tom davis, not a member of the hard right. Up next, republicans have been trying to to make it harder for minorities to vote, and now the Supreme Court of the United States is considering whether a key part of the 1965 Voting Rights act should be struck down. Thats section five. Thats the one that makes every state check out any changes in its election law with the Justice Department. This is hardball, the place for politics. Stress sweat is different than ordinary sweat. It smells worse. Get 4x the protection against stress sweat. Introducing new secret clinical strength stress response scent. Shimmy, shimmy chocolate. Shimmy, shimmy chocolate. We, we chocolate cross over. Yeah, we chocolate cross over. [ male announcer ] introducing fiber one 80 calorie chocolate cereal. Chocolate. Senator Frank Lautenberg of new jersey is set to retire next year. Newark mayor corey booker is in good shape to win that seat. And Geraldo Rivera may want to think twice before getting in the race. Booker would trounce rivera 59 to 23 . Rivera has started to make some noise about running as a republican, but these numbers may give him pause. Well be right back. Welcome back to hardball. One of the most significant cases the Supreme Court hears this term will be argued next wednesday, and it involves protecting the most sacred right americans possess, the right to vote. Today in a radio interview with joe madison, president obama himself reflected on its significance. By passing the Voting Rights act, what you did was to ensure that those regions of the country, those areas that had a history of preventing africanamericans or latinos or other ethnic groups from voting, they would have to be cleared by the Justice Department in any changes they had to their voting practices. If section five of the Voting Rights act is struck down, then that preclearance process would go away, and, you know, theres some parts of the country where, obviously, folks have been trying to make it harder for people to vote. Well, there are nine states covered by section five of the Voting Rights act. There they are. Mostly southern which the president talking about. The states in yellow. Its also affected some counties in these additional states in green. You can see that for a total of 16 states. In the 2012 election, section five protections played a crucial role in preventing minority voters from being disenfranchised in texas and in florida. Ryan haygood is director of the naacp Legal Defense and education fund. He represents parties involved in next wednesdays Supreme Court hearing. And Julie Fernandez is a former Deputy Assistant attorney general in the department of justices civil rights division. Shes now a senior policy analyst at the hope and society foundation. Let me start with ryan, mr. Haygood, on this thing, put it together. To put it together, what weve talked a lot about on this show, which ive talked a lot about in the last year, is what i didnt like being done in my home state of pennsylvania where i came from and other states like florida where coy see what looked like clearly discriminatory efforts where you had the head of the pennsylvania legislature, the republican guy, coming out and basically saying if we get this voter photo i. D. Law were going to win this state. In other words, its going to discriminate against at least superficially just democrats but we all know i think he meant urban minorities. Number two you see the same thing in florida where bill clinton said it was the most flagrant case of Voter Suppression because africanamericans for years have gone to church on sunday and then gone off and voted together as a kind of a ritual or way to spend that day before the two days before an election. He says by blocking that, ending that it was clearly aimed at blacks. Bluntlys there a connection between Voting Rights section 5 and what Reince Priebus and his party did last year . Chris, thanks for having me on the show. Its one we grappled with pretty substantially at the Legal Defense fund where i am an attorney. What congress did in 2006 when it considered whether to reauthorize the Voting Rights act was it looked at the whole country and it focused on those areas where voting discrimination was most concentrated, where it was most intense and most persistent and most adaptive, and it recognized that those jurisdictions that are all or part of 16 states that are covered by section 5 of the Voting Rights act are those places where voting discrimination has over time been most intense and most persistent and most adaptive. In the past election we saw section 5 of the Voting Rights act strike discriminatory changes in the state of texas, in the state of South Carolina and in florida. And this is not to say that states like pennsylvania as you mentioned, chris, or wisconsin or ohio, states that are not covered by the Voting Rights act, dont also experience voting discrimination. But what congress recognized very keenly in 2006 is that the type of discrimination that we see in the covered jurisdictions, those jurisdictions covered by section 5 are those places where discrimination is most intense and where Congress Needed to have the strongest antibiotic to cure the racist discrimination in those covered jurisdictions. Let me bring this in here. Since 2010, not long ago, state legislatures have made it harder to vote in these 17 states, whether by requiring photo i. D. , cutting back early voting, or imposing new restrictions on Voter Registration drives. Julie, i thought im not a lawyer like you guys, but i thought the idea of Voting Rights was a remedy. As ryan just said a minute ago, were talking about people that have done bad things in the past, were going to stop them from doing it again. Thats why theres a justification for federal intervention in what is normally a state matter. But i think there are some new culprits out there that arent covered by Voting Rights. Is it fair under due process or equal protection to point out certain states that may be doing bad because theyve done bad but excluding out other states that have done bad like pennsylvania . Well, first of all, the Voting Rights act in general applies to the whole country. So the Voting Rights act outlaws voting discrimination based on race everywhere. Section 5 is a very particular remedy to remedy a particular type and kind of discrimination that we saw most intensely, as ryan said, in the states that are a part of the Geographic Reach of section 5. So when Congress Passed the Voting Rights act in 65, they said okay, we have to stop, we have to give a sword to people to be able to stop voting discrimination. But there are places where it is entrenched, recalcitrant, where it keeps coming back, where it once you push down its like a whackamole, you push down, it pops up somewhere else. So you needed to have a remedy that ensured that that stopped. And section 5 does that. Ryan, theres two different goals to discrimination. One is local, whites want to run the show. Theres a majority of whites, they use that advantage. You know better than i do how the game is played. Maybe widening the voting district or any other trick in the world to make sure whites run the show. But what i also noticed besides what i call that Racial Discrimination is political discrimination where you see in a state like pennsylvania, this isnt out to screw the blacks necessarily, this is to make sure their candidate wins the state, the statewide election for president. So its not that old southern thing. Its just pure raw political gamesmanship. But theres a distinction in your eyes. I dont know. What weve often seen is this is old poison in new bottles. We see the effect of the voter changes, for example, in the state of pennsylvania, with the photo i. D. Measure, people of color are disproportionately less likely or more likely not to have the type of i. D. That the commonwealth was requiring there. But what we also saw in the past president ial election is that where there was a proliferation of Voter Suppression tactics outside of the states covered by section 5, so in pennsylvania or ohio or wisconsin, there we saw that statelevel remedies and to julies point a different provision Voting Rights act, section 2, was enough to cure the discriminatory change at issue. But in the jurisdictions covered by section 5 congress recognized that those places were the ones where discrimination over time had been the most resistant to change and required the strongest antibiotic. Julie, quickly, one answer, julie, whether you win or not. We are going to win. Are you going to win . Are you going to keep the Voting Rights act . Well absolutely win. And thats because four times the Supreme Court has recognized the constitutionality of the Voting Rights act. Congress developed a 15,000page record in support of the Voting Rights act. And, chris, the experience of our clients and millions of voters on the ground in the covered jurisdictions all point toward the Supreme Court upholding section 5 in this challenge. Thank you, sir. Great to have you on. Rein haygood of the naacp. And julie fernandes. Well be right back. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. Its hard to turn off and go back to sleep. Intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you cant get back to sleep. Its an effective sleep medicine you dont take before bedtime. Take it in bed only when you need it and have at least four hours left for sleep. Do not take intermezzo if you have had an allergic reaction to drugs containing zolpidem, such as ambien. Allergic reactions such as shortness of breath or swelling of your tongue or throat may occur and may be fatal. Intermezzo should not be taken if you have taken another sleep medicine at bedtime or in the middle of the night or drank alcohol that day. Do not drive or operate machinery until at least 4 hours after taking intermezzo and youre fully awake. Driving, eating, or engaging in other activities while not fully awake without remembering the event the next day have been reported. Abnormal behaviors may include aggressiveness, agitation, hallucinations, or confusion. Alcohol or taking other medicines that make you sleepy may increase these risks. In depressed patients, worsening of depression, including risk of suicide, may occur. Intermezzo, like most sleep medicines, has some risk of dependency. Common side effects are headache, nausea, and fatigue. So if you suffer from middleofthenight insomnia, ask your doctor about intermezzo and return to sleep again. Let me finish tonight with this. What happened to the Republican Party of the 1960s . You know, all those gop senators who voted for the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights act. What happened to them . What happened to that Republican Party . For the Civil Rights Act, the republican vote in the u. S. Senate was 276. In the house it was 13635. Four out of five republican members in both houses for civil rights. For the Voting Rights act the following year the republican vote in the senate was 302. In the house the republican vote was 11224. Overwhelming in all cases. Im watching this debate over the Voting Rights act and the immediate for it today and im struck with the reality that the reason for it today is the Republican Party. Not the party of the 1960s but one of the Reince Priebuss parties, that one. The one thats backed Voter Suppression efforts in dozens of states and keeps on doing it. Every time a state run by a Republican Legislature and governor passes another bill making it harder to vote, cutting down on voting days, expanding voter i. D. Requirements, you have to wonder, are they doing precisely what the Voting Rights act was designed to stop . Are they deliberately making it harder for minority voters to get into the vote booth and cast their ballots . The Republican Party can be proud of its heritage in certain regards. Certainly abraham lincoln
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