ripple effects that come from there. >> let's talk cyber attack here, general mccaffrey. ukraine now saying they have experienced one of the largest cyber attacks they have experienced in their nation's history. if it is identified that the source of this cyber attack is moscow, is russia at the ends of vladimir putin, how should the united states -- how should nato forces respond? >> russia is potentially capable of bringing down the electrical grid, of affecting the water supplies, the knocking the financial system on its knees. so we should expect that the crisis is not over, even if military overt ground combat power pulls back. these kind of threats to