Brain episode. Shes strong, doing great. As far as i can tell, shes in better shape than i am. He joins our sunday panel to explain his comments. Plus, growing allegations that veterans die, waiting for treatment at va hospitals across the country. Isnt there evidence here of criminal wrongdoing, that is falsifying records, false statements to the federal government . Thats a crime. It should be, yes. Outrage over a secret waiting list. But how widespread are the problems . And who knew about them . Well ask the leading whistleblower, dr. Sam foote and ryan galluci of the vfw. And scott reed on the u. S. Chamber of commerces multimillion dollar stake in the 2011 election. If you Say Something stupid were not going to support you. If it crosses the line and is disrespectful, were out. All right now on fox news sunday. Hello again from fox news in washington. This week, we were fascinated to learn that former Vice President cheney and his wife, lynne, have embarked on a road show, where he interviews her about her new critically acclaimed biography, James Madison, a life revealed. Well we invited them to sit down with us to discuss a wide range of topics. In their first joint interview since leaving office. Vice president cheney, mrs. Cheney, welcome back to fox news sunday. Good morning, chris. Good to see you, chris. Karl rove talked about Hillary Clinton having sustained a traumatic brain injury. The clinton campfired back that shows just how desperate the republicans are this year. Mr. Vice president , do you think that Hillary Clintons health and age are fair game . Well, i think any president ial candidate or Vice President ial candidate will have to answer questions about their health. I wouldnt want to prejudge mrs. Clintons health. I dont know anything about it. Certainly i felt responsible to be open about my health when i was Vice President and a candidate and i think that will be expected of anybody who runs as Vice President or president. What do you think about benghazi . Do you think she did anything wrong and should she be held responsible for the events surrounding that attack . She was secretary of state at the time that it happened. She was one of the first in washington to know about it. I think she clearly bears responsibility for whatever the state department did or didnt do with respect to that crisis. I do think its a major issue. I dont think weve heard the last of it yet. And i would expect that she will be held accountable during the course of the campaign. Mrs. Cheney, you said recently that you thought the clintons must be pleased that vanity fair magazine ran an article written by mon ica lewinsky. Why on earth do you think they would want to see lewinsky back in the public eye . Do you think the scandal is a legitimate issue for Hillary Clinton in 2016 . Well, i was really paying the clintons a large compliment. I was saying how clever they are politically. And that it seemed to me that if you had something that might come up during the campaign that was damaging, it was very smart to get it out of the way early. So, thats my case and im staying with it. All right plchlt Vice President , lets turn to the standoff in ukraine. How do you think president obama has handled russian president putin both before and now during this crisis . Well, i think you have to look beyond that most immediate crisis. Obviously, we have to deal with that. There has developed over the years of the Obama Administration, i think, a sense on the part of others that we have a weak government. We saw, for example, the request from putin president obama withdrew the plans for a Missile Defense Program Based in poland and the czech republic. He has demonstrated repeatedly, i think that he, in fact, can be pushed around, if you will, by the putins. And i dont think mr. Putin has any hesitation at all from the standpoint of the american president of changing his course of action. I think he has taken advantage of this opportunity when he thinks we have a weak president to try to restore some of the old soviet union. I would like to point out that James Madison was one of the first to observe that the appearance of weakness invites evil doing on the part of our adversaries. It was also the case in madisons time, to go back to the lewinskies, if thats okay the lewinsky scandal. Theyve gone on forever. Theyre damaging. A Alexander Hamilton had to admit he had an affair. I hear people saying its worse now than its ever been. Actually, not so. Its about the same. Very clever way to get to the book. I promise well get to the madison book in a moment. Promises, promises. The fact is that when you were in the white house, russia invaded the former soviet republic of georgia and took over two provinces so putin felt he could take you guys on too. Well, he obviously did at the time. These were two breakaway provinces that did not any longer want to be part of georgia. What we did at the time was, i think, a more robust response. We flew in a brigade of georgian soldiers that had been involved, supporting our efforts in iraq, flew them back in to georgia to try to provide some support there as well as sent u. S. Ships into the black sea and provided various kinds of supplies. The situation is reminiscent in the sense that you have somebody, break up the old soviet union, warsaw pact. It wasnt. It was the end of the cold war and it was a great benefit. Now hes trying to reverse some of those basic developments. Mrs. Cheney i promise were going to get to the book in a moment i want to ask one last Current Events question to the Vice President. Syria, the situation continues to get worse, the mediator just quit, the rebels leave their strongholds and the assad regime is believed to have used chemical weapons a dozen times after president obama decide not to attack the assad regime in syria. What is the impact of all of this, do you think, both in syria and the u. S. Overall Foreign Policy . I just, in march, chris, traveled the area. I covered a lot of places in the area where i have longterm relationships back in the days where we were doing desert storm. Everyone is very concerned with u. S. Policy. They hold up the syrian situation as a classic example. The u. S. Cant be trusted. The president gave a lot of talk, drew a red line. Said he was going to act and in the end didnt act and left them high and dry. The syrian situation has significantly undermined our credibility in the region. I think its also the kind of thing that leads putin and others to believe this is the time for adventurism on their part. Mrs. Cheney, the New York Times, of all newspapers, said in a review of your book, it was one of the best biographies of James Madison thats ever been written. You say that madison has been underappreciated for a long time as one of the main writers of the constitution, bill of rights and starting our First Political party. Well, thats all true. If you just Pay Attention to madison, as i do, youll find when people begin to list the founders, he may get tagged on at the end but is often not mentioned, which is really too bad, since he was the primary architect of the constitution. That was probably his finest achievement. His mind is still present in our world today when the Supreme Court has a decision to make about whether the police stopping you for a Traffic Violation can search your cell phone, they will re krchcur to Fourth Amendment, which madison drafted. The Fourth Amendment deals with citizens not being exposed to unreasonable search and seizure. His ideas are very much part of their lives today and i think for that reason alone, he merits further study. On a more personal level, you say that one of the reasons that you were drawn to writing about James Madison is because of all of his health problems, epilepsylike seizures, which in a sense paralleled your husbands health conditions. I dont think i said it paralleled dicks problems but on some level i suppose i lived for many years with a politician who did have to overcome health challen challenges. It may have, on some level, attracted me to write about madison, who did have to deal with a mild form of epilepsy. Mr. Vice president , we always wonder, how is your health . And as someone who was a central player in governing for eight years in the white house, as you look back and as youve read your wifes book, what do you see as the central parts of his legacy that have endured today . Well, first of all, my health is great. I just did the twoyear checkup. The transplant has been absolutely flawless. Its been perfect and im in great shape. In terms of madisons impact, lynne touched on it a bit. But clearly when we get into major debates over constitutional prerogatives, executive and legislative and so forth, we are dealing with the madison legacy. And so much of what were trying to do now in the recent administrations, in this one especially, say, for example, the war powers act, madison played a major role when he changed the draft in the constitution from congress having the authority to make war to congress having the authority to declare war. That was enormous. It basically transferred the authority to conduct war, be the commander in chief, to the executive and the president and, fortunately, that happened. We lived with that ever since. I think thats far preferable than what was originally intended in the first draft. Madison had, in fact, watched the congress try to direct war during the revolution. And it was a complete mess with the congress authorizing troops to march here and march there, depending sometimes on how near they were tomeeting in philadelphia. I think thats the reason he leapt in at the constitutional convention. Finally, well be electing a new president in 2016. Mr. Vice president , youve done this with me before. I want to play a lightning round. Quick questions, quick answers on some of the potential candidates. Senator rand paul. Senator paul said last month he thought you might have a potential conflict of interest during the invasion of iraq during 2003 because you had worked for haliburton and the defense industry. How do you respond to that . Before i took the job as Vice President i totally severed all my ties with haliburton, had no communication with them, and kept an arms length relationship. He is obviously not familiar with the facts. Any thoughts of jeb bush . He is a great guy, been a good governor. I think he is seriously considering it. That certainly is another one that ought to be on the perspective list of candidate. Finally, chris christie, your thoughts on him. I met chris. I like him. I dont know what hes going to do. He hasnt made himself clear. I have not committed to anybody and dont plan to for some time. Mrs. Cheney . Ditto. Well, i see im not going to get much out of this. Thank you both so much for talking with us. Mrs. Cheney, good luck with the book. Thank you, chris. Coming up, karl rove stirs up quite a controversy when he questions Hillary Clintons health. Karl joins our sunday group. Plus, what would you like to ask the panel about clinton in 2016 . Go to facebook or twitt twitter foxnewssunday and we may use your question on the air. Get from alaska, they think salmon and energy. But the energy bp produces up here creates Something Else as well jobs all over america. Engineering and innovation jobs. Advanced Safety Systems technology. Shipping and manufacturing. Across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. When we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. Thats not a coincidence. Its one more part of our commitment to america. I got more advice than i knew what to do with. What i needed was information i could trust on how to take care of me and my baby. Luckily, unitedhealthcare has a Simple Program that helps moms stay on track with their doctors and get the right care and guidancebefore and after the baby is born. Simple is good right now. anncr vo innovations that work for you. Thats health in numbers. Unitedhealthcare. First they said she faked her concussion. Now they say shes auditioning for a part on the walking dead. I mean, you know, whatever it takes. Former president clinton saying his wife is just fine after karl rove questioned the aftereffects of the concussion that secretary clinton suffered back in 2012. Senior political analyst, usa columnist powers, the aforementioned karl rove and political analyst. Karl, you have the media and even president clinton talking about Hillary Clintons health. Mission accomplished . Look, lets put this into context. I was asked, is she running . My brain says yes. My gut says this is a more complicated decision and i cited this 30 days of dealing with a very Serious Health issue. She comes home from the czech republic. She stops in belfast on the afternoon of the 7th of december, 2012. She is seen in public. And the next time we see her in public is back at work, the 7th of january. We see her briefly on the night of january 2nd when shes leaving the hospital, but during that period of time, she has a virus, she has a concussion. They announce on the 15th of december shes fallen and hit her head and has suffered a concussion. Were not going to tell you what day or even where it was. Finally they say admit it was at her home. On the 30g9 of december, sunday, the 30th of december, she goes in for a routine follow up and they announce she has a blood clot and they wont say for 24 hours when and where it is. Then they issue a 119word statement that takes about a minute to readout loud that says it was between let me ask you a question. Do you really have doubts about her physical capability to run for president . No, i dont. But it would not be human if you were to sit there and say i had a serious brain injury and i had a her husband the other day told us something we didnt know. Took her six months, he said, to get back. Well pick up on that in a minute. I remember john mccains opponents raising the issue as whether or not he had gone a little bit nuts when he was in that vietnam prison. In 1988 there were questions about Michael Dukakis Mental Health and Ronald Reagan saying he wouldnt pick on an invalid. Is this just hardball politics . Look, im not questioning her health. What im questioning is whether or not its a done deal that shes running. And she would not be human if she did not take this into consideration. Shell be 69 at the time of the 2016 election. If she gets elected two terms, shell be 77. I loved president clintons comments the other day. Lets remember, this is a guy who ran for reelection by savaging bob dole. Bob dole looked like methusala in the campaign ads. Tired, old, worn out. His Deputy Campaign manager refers to dolby saying he is disconnected and dysfunctional. I love being elected by bill clinton saying this is off limits. You cant talk about her health or her age. He savaged also no, no, wait. I have to bring the others into this. You have to play well with others. No, i dont. President clinton, while defending his wife, also talked about the fact that he had a Serious Health issue. They went to all this trouble to say that she had staged what was a terrible concussion that required six months of very serious work to get over. Terrible concussion, six months of serious work, given what clinton said about his wife, was karl over the line . If it is really just about whether or not she would run, thats not over the line. I think anybody would say that. People who know her, are close to her would say thats a consideration in whether she runs or not. I think the way, at least, it was reported is it seemed that her brain her faculties were being questioned which is really, i think, unfair to question that. I dont think theres anything to suggest that you cant have the type of health issue that she had and go on to be perfectly functioning. We have no reason to believe theres anything wrong with her brain. I havent seen anything that suggests theres anything wrong with her brain. She certainly is fit enough, if she can run a campaign, to be president. We asked you questions for the panel and got this on facebook from dale k. Robinson. If republicans want to win against hillary, they need to leave her health and Monica Lewinsky out of the debate. Attacking her there j you have the makes her the victim and gains votes for her. Is dale right . I dont know if thats true. The fact was to raise the issue whereupon her husband comes out and says what he says and the first part of what you played of bill clinton was reported everywhere. The part where he said that she underwent what i guess was six months of physical therapy to refer from the concussion. A terrible concussion sfwh a terrible concussion was new news. Of course, it was widely overlooked. So i think that that, even more than what karl said, places her health as an issue and a legitimate issue. If someone has a terrible concussion and undergoes six months of treatment and theres a blood clot near the brain, the whole thing needs to be laid out and explained. She may be just fine, but it is a legitimate issue to raise about her. We saw plenty of outrage from both the left and the right over karl roves statements. Clintons spokesman said karl rove has deceived the country for years, but there are no words for this level of line. And former Republican House speaker Newt Gingrich said i am totally opposed and deeply offended by karl roves comments. Do you share their outrage . I think this was a harsh attack by karl. I dont think theres any way to get away from it. He said hes not bringing up mrs. Clintons health but you are talking about her health. I did not say she had brain damage, which is what the headline writers said. I hate to break this to you. What you said and what the people heard may be different. Youre a journalist. I agree with but im telling you, it wasnt a matter of parsonning his words. What was said. I think thats fair. Suppose karl had said she had a terrible concussion. That would have been fair. Traumatic brain damage. First of all, i didnt say it. She wasnt in the hospital for 30 days. Youre right. There were mistakes here, karl. And part of it is this is what gingrich was getting at. Newt gingrich says it was a personal attack. It wasnt about ideas. It was a personal attack. Gop at this moment over Hillary Clinton. Hillary clinton is to blame for benghazi, for nigeria. Hillary clinton is to blame for Monica Lewinsky. Glad you admit it. Hillary clinton was a terrible secretary of state. Glad you admit it. You guys are going crazy. Look, look, look beating about the head and generating sympathy for her. Be careful about your analogies. Lets be clear. She is going to have to cough up these medical records. This was a serious look, the center for Disease Control says a concussion is a type of traumatic brain injury. Youre doing it no, no, look. Look. This was my point. We had dick cheney on earlier. When he had a heart defibrillator in, what happened . He put out the doctors to talk about what happened, and she would have been better off Newt Gingrich said the 2016 election, the republican candidate better have big ideas and make this about the big agenda. I agree. I wish he had followed it in 2012 rather than talking about a lunar base and bashing romney. Karl, karl, doesnt this remind everybody that you, your past as a very effective political operative, have gone after people. Entirely legitimate. It comes across in that way. As someone who has known you for a long time, you may be helping Hillary Clinton. Here is the deal. Ive opinion saying this for six months. This was an offtherecord tell mitt romney. That somebody then leaked to New York Post gossip page. Im not the person who said brain damage. We have to get out of this segment. One, did you say she was wearing glasses that people need who suffered traumatic brain injury . Im not saying thats wrong. Did you say that . Yeah. A concussion is, by definition, a traumatic brain injury. So is a blood clot in the brain. And, finally, any regrets . No, no. Look, my point is this. Shes a human being. You would not be human and not have a serious brain injury like this was and take it into consideration if youre thinking about going and doing what she might do. This was concern for her . Thats right. No, no, no. Yes, im concerned as one human being to another. Im more concerned because people say shes in. This is a done deal. Im not so certain. My brain says shes running. My gut says, you know what . This has far more we dont know what kind of shape your brain is in. We have to take a break and well see you all a little later. What do you think about the controversy over Hillary Clintons health . Join the conversation with other fns viewers on facebook. Veterans dying because of long waiting times and coverups at veterans hospitals. Well talk to someone who is demanding the Obama Administration fix the system. Outrage is snowballing this week over revelations about health care for our nations veterans. There are now reports that va workers in several states covered up delays in treatment that may have led to the death of dozens of veterans. Amid calls for va secretary shinseki to step down, the Obama Administration announced a top official was forced to resign. The leading whistleblower, dr. Sam foote is joining us and here in studio, the va deputy director. The undersecretary of health for the va, robert petzel, was forced out. He announce d plans to retire last year. Do you see this as accountability or an empty gesture . Im glad you asked that. One of the issues we brought up was accountability from top to bottom. Secretary shinseki announced that 300 employees had been reprimanded on wait list, scheming the system. The problem was when he was pressed on this issue he said, well, you know, a lot of employees retired or were moved or were put into different positions or demoted. When pressed he was not very clear about whether these employees were fired. What about petzel . Its a difficult scenario. The scrutiny that came over his department may have forced his hand. I dont know if he was planning to retire in the next few weeks or what the larger plan was. Whats happened over the last month, i think, forced his resignation sooner than we would have seen it. Meanwhile va secretary Eric Shinseki says he intends to stay on to fix the problem. Here he was in the hearings. Any allegations, any adverse incident like this makes me as makes me mad as hell. Mr. Gallucci, do you still have confidence that mr. Shinseki is part of the solution and not part of the problem . We think he is. But these families need justice and they need it quickly. Dr. Foote, your thoughts about shinseki staying on and petzel leaving. Petzel should have been forced out after the debacle of the legionella in pittsburgh. In terms of secretary shinseki, he knew how to take names and kick butt when he needed to and hold people accountable. Thats the guy we need in there, not the guy who has set back and let tr petzel run everything. It was obvious from the hearings that he was blindsided multiple times on multiple issues. I can only imagine what the discussion must have been like after that meeting between him and dr. Petzel. For right now, if we switched the secretaries, then the focus will be away from fixing the problem to who is the new secretary going to be . Then you will have a three, six or ninemonth grace period because hes the new guy. I think our best bet at this point is to keep the secretary on board. I think the president needs to keep him on a pretty short leash and be sure hes doing his job. Dr. Foote, you retired in december after 24 years in the phoenix va system, in large part so you could do what youve done, which is blow the whistle on the secret waitlist and the fact that you allege up to 40 veterans may have died because they were sitting there, waiting for care. Is it possible that all this was going on in phoenix and now we find out in other va phil faci around the country and that washington didnt know about it . No. Theyve been cheating about this the cheating has gone on for a long time. There was a memo in 2010 where they showed all the various different cheating schemes and told everybody not to do this anymore. They knew it was a big problem. Here is the thing. If the numbers in phoenix look good, then the number for Veterans Service internet 18 look good and when Congress Asks the va for their national numbers, they all look good. Theres no real incentive on the part of the upper management in washington to get accurate numbers. You allege that up to 40 veterans in phoenix died while they were waiting for care. But on friday, the vas acting Inspector General testified about his review of some of these cases before congress. Lets take a look at what he had to say. I know 17. We didnt conclude so far that the delay caused the death. Its one thing to be on a waiting list and its another thing to conclude that as a result of being on a waiting list, thats the cause of death. Dr. Foote, while under any circumstances delays to being able to see a doctor of more than a year are inexcusable. Is it possible that these veterans did not die because of these wait times . The original allegation was 40 people died while waiting for care. And they were advertising waiting times of 30 to 55 days when, in fact, they were more like six to seven months. And we had no way of reviewing these charts because it would have been a hippa violation to go in and there are technical reasons. We never said that they died because of this. We just made the point that at least 40 veterans, we felt, had died while waiting for care and these needed to be reviewed because they were staying hidden by the phoenix va. Mr. Gallucci, at your vfw convention in 2009, kn Presiden Obama promised to solve the problem. Cut those backlogs, slash those wait times, deliver your benefits sooner. I know youve heard this for years, but the leadership and resources were providing this time means that were going to be able to do it. Since this scandal broke look at this map there have been stories of secret wait lists and veterans unable to get treatment in at least ten states around the country. Question, didnt the administration didnt members of congress have to know this was going on . Well, this is one of the problems we were talking about in the hearing on thursday, is resourcing for va. Weve seen record increases in the budget. Are the resources going where we need them . Answer my direct question. Didnt the people in washington in the va and the administration, and members of congress, who im sure were hearing from their constituents, didnt they have to know its going on . I think its naive to think they didnt know it was going on. Vfw, Partner Organizations have been screaming about this for years, about wait times. Weve seen iga investigations, Government Accountability reports. We hope that the information that comes out will finally inspire significant change. I want to pick up on this question of resources, dr. Foote. Part of the problem is a matter of simple supply and demand. As mr. Gallucci mentioned, the va budget has continued to go up over the years but the number of primary care visits rose 50 over the last three years while the number of primary care doctors rose only 9 . You have had an interesting suggestion, which is to give a special card to vets so that if they cant get care, cant see a doctor at a va hospital, they can go anywhere else. In arizona, spaces are vast. If you live in winslow and have chest pain, your best bet is to quickly get on i40 and head to flagstaff. It would take five or six hours to get to tucson, which is the only va in arizona that does interventional heart work. A veteran care card for urgent or Emergent Health treatment. When they have very little scheduling experience isnt going to yield any useful data. If Deborah Draper and the Accountability Office could work with survey monkey and survey the primary care doctors, nurses and collect the data on what they think the real waiting times are and give a oneweek amnesty time to the directors to report their real wait iing tim. If they find a significant mismatch they need to go out there and audit them. If theyre fudging the books at that point, just fire them and prosecute them to the maximum extent of the law. Youre suggesting this threeweek audit that secretary shinseki is talking about will not turn up the right information . Complete waste of time and money. Independent survey. Survey monkey is multiple choice questions that are completely anonymous going to the gao so there wouldnt be any retaliation. They can get the actual data. I ask every patient how long have you been waiting . They said three, six, nine, 12 months. I pretty much knew at the time it was six to nine months when the administration was saying two. If you survey all the employees in primary care who deal with this, they could give you an Accurate Answer and you could then tell the administration, they have a week to give you the real numbers. If they dont give you the real numbers, gao would see that in a second and they could go out and audit them. Thats one way of getting to the real data. Dr. Foote, mr. Gallucci, thank you for kochling in today. We promise well stay on top of this story. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. When we come back, the New York Times fires joe abrahamson. Our Panel Discusses whether the times is waging its own war on women. Heat shields are compromised. We have multiple failures. Are those thrusters burning . Thats a negative. Whats that alarm . Fuel cell two is down. Im going to have to guide her in manually. This is very exciting. But im at my stop. Come again . Im watching this on the train. Its so hard to leave. Good luck with everything. With the uverse tv app, the uverse revolves around you the uverse revolves around you lets play the big part. The point i was just making, though. Why then would her successor in her old job make more money than she did . That doesnt make sense to me. People were talking on the new fox news show outnumbered about the sudden firing of the New York Times top editor jill abrahamson. Were back now with the panel. This controversy has grown so much that New York Times editor was forced to put out a new statement on saturday. Lets put this up on the screen. I decided that jill could no longer remain as executive edite editor for reasons having nothing to do with pay or gender. I heard repeatedly from her newsroom colleagues, women and men, about arbitrary decision making, failure to consult and bring colleagues with her, inadequate communication and the mistreatment of colleagues. Are you persuaded . No, im not. They keep referring to her pay package in her last year was 10 higher than her predecessor. So, theyre looking at the last year and they also keep saying package instead of talking about whats important, which is what her salary was and it was substantially less than her predecessor. I think she was complaining about a pattern of discrimination, if reporting at the new yorker has been correct, that she was paid less in multiple jobs, including a Deputy Managing Editor making more than she was making when she was managing editor, including having another managing editor making more than she was when she was managing editor. When you put it all together, it makes sense that she would have gotten a lawyer which the New York Times said was a contributing factor to her firing. Its very problematic were always hearing, particularly from conservatives that we dont need laws to protect women in terms of paycheck fairness because you can just get a lawyer and fix the problem and most women know thats not really true and this is what happens to you when you get a lawyer. The editor of Politico Magazine has this story on its website this weekend alongside a photo of abrahamson in boxing gloves editing while female, journalisms most dangerous jobs and her dismay over the last year as any legitimate questions about her, abrahamsons tenure, sexist debates over her, quote, temp temp temperament. Do they have a legitimate beef . Possibly so. Its a little vague. If there are, indeed, a number of people who have complained about her management style and if, indeed, she he felt that he could not trust her because, for example, she tried to hire a comanaging editor without properly informing or consulting her colleagues, these are all legitimate concerns that Senior Management would have about any employee in any job. These are reasonable things. And despite the fact that comments about a female employees temperament can be sexist, if youre a Senior Editor for the New York Times and your temperament doesnt allow you to manage all the egos and people you have to deal with, then thats a problem for Senior Management to deal with. What i would say is we dont really know. Kirsten may be right. But it may not be as well. Legitimate question, it seems to me. Although too generally put, have been raised. Supporters of abrahamson raise the fact that Abe Rosenthal was the top editor in the 70s and 80s and somewhat of a tyrant and no one fired him because of his rough management style. No, but he was extremely effective. I dont think anybody wait, wait. Jill abrahamson, eight Pulitzer Prizes in the time she was there. I dont know the exact number but i think Abe Rosenthals pulitzer tally would dwarf its hardly as if she was a flop as editor of the paper. No. When you look at the bottom line it has to be are you able to manage this team, keep it on line, achieve the goal of what the newspaper has set . What we heard in the statement is that she had lost confidence of her fellow managers and especially, i think, with regard to the transition the newspaper was making to digital. Of course, all newspapers these days are in dire financial situations. How do you transform your newspaper from a purely print entity to one that goes online and gets all these new eyeballs . She was slow to it. They had a new report done by the sun of sulzberger jr. Join the meritocracy. Whatever. Another subject another day. The sons report was she is so concerned about relations between the newsroom and the business side that shes slowing down this transition that needs to be made if the times is to remain financially viable. We auk about the fact that the times won eight pullitier prizes under jill abrahamsons tenure. One of the issues that people well talk about this. The way she was fired. Fired in the middle of the week so suddenly she was gone before the announcement, not able to make some kind of statement, her reading glasses reportedly still on her desk after she left and it turns out that he also fired janet robinson, while abramson was the first female executive editor are they living in a glass house . Look, im with brit on this. We dont know the details of it. I do know this. This seems to be a dysfunctional institution. Its a publicly traded company. In essence, the New York Times is controlled by the sulzberger family, now in the third generation, i guess. It strikes me that you have a publisher who has management problems complaining about a his chief person in the newsroom who has, he claims, management problems. Theres a tension inside News Organizations during the business side and the news side that jill represents. We should probably point out that sulzbergers father was known as punch sulzberger and hes known as pinch. Okay. A News Organization that has now become an its like the entire new business hats worked out all of its angst that the News Business faces and the business and the news side through the prism of the difficulties of the New York Times. And i hope to god the rest of the news world is not as apparently mismanaged by a family as a familyrun enterprise as this one appears to be. I want to get to the question that brit raised with you, ki s kierstin. She was the first woman editor of the New York Times. Big deal. On the other hand if shes going to be raised to that position as the first woman that also means maybe she could get fired. Of course. Absolutely she could get fired. I think you raise a point, the way she was treated and far more concerned about the pay discrepancy. What about the management issue . She was difficult and there have been plenty of male editors who have been thats the point. I dont believe that the same qualities in a man are necessarily seen the same way, as long as theyre performing. And they have not yet really shown how she wasnt performing. Theyre complaining about the fact that some people referred to her on background with no names attached as being pushy. Things you dont hear being said about men. I also think you have to bear in mind that a lot of women of her generation who have come up and met that bar will be harsher than other people. She has a lot to be pissed off about if she has been underpaid this entire time. She has probably lost over a period of working there a million dollars. She got fired maybe she wasnt underpaid. Why did she get promoted . She kept getting promoted up the chain. Her successor at the Washington Bureau chief making 100,000 more to her when shes being promoted . Come on. This is outrageous. Guys, im glad we settled that. Thank you, panel. See you next week. Im going to move on. Power player of the week, the largest pro business lobbying group to elect what they think are the right kind of republican s. Ng . Copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. Spiriva is a oncedaily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. Spiriva helps me breathe easier. Spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fastacting inhalers for sudden symptoms. Tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. These may worsen with spiriva. Discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. Stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. Other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. Nothing can reverse copd. Spiriva helps me breathe better. Does breathing with copd weigh you down . Dont wait to ask your doctor about spiriva. When folks think about wthey think salmon and energy. But the energy bp produces up here creates Something Else as well jobs all over america. Engineering and innovation jobs. Advanced Safety Systems technology. Shipping and manufacturing. Across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. When we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. Thats not a coincidence. Its one more part of our commitment to america. This year might be called the establishment strikes back. One group has been leading the way to try to ensure that the candidate who wins the gop primary can get elected in november. Here is our power player of the week. When we see candidates out there talking about we want to come to washington and shut the place down, thats kind of a threshold issue for us at the chamber. Were going to go in and try to stop that. Scott reed is senior political strategist for the chamber of commerce. This year he is leading a multimillion dollar effort to make sure the right kind of republicans win gop primaries. In north carolina, they support tom tillis so he could avoid a runoff and go after democratic encumbent kay hagan. She went after washington. Tom tillis, a bold conservative who balanced our budget and reduced regulations. The chamber is backing gop competitor cochran. Meet the real chris daniel, trial action lawyer using the courts to seek an enormous pay date. A battle between the establishment on one hand, chamber part of that establishment, versus the tea party in the other. The tea party and chamber of commerce actually have a lot in common. We believe when a handful of bad actors take over the tea party that things get a little out of hand. And reed doesnt shy away from naming names. A conservative fund goes out and raises money to try to defeat the Senate Majority leader. This would be unheard of 20 years ago if anybody did that. They would be run out of town. And the club for growth. Goes out and recruits trial lawyers to run against members of congress that have an over 90 record with the business community. Its absurd. Create good jobs. Scott reed was executive director of the gop in 1994 when it won control over the house and senate for the first time in 40 years. In 1996, he ran bob doles president ial campaign. Now a political consultant, he decided to get aggressively involved in primaries so the Party Wont End up with nominees who cant win in november. If you Say Something stupid, were not going to support you. Because if it crosses the line and its disrespectful, were out. This week, the chambers president , tom donahue, took another controversial stand, saying the gop must pass immigration reform. If republicans dont do it, they shouldnt bother to run a candidate in 2016. The argument is that splits the party. Were in the solution business at the chamber. Thats what makes the world go round economically. One more sign the chamber and reed intend to turn the debate inside the gop their way. In this business, somebody wins and somebody loses. And were focused on trying to win this year. But its not just about republicans. The chamber prides itself on being nonpartisan and reed says theyll back probusiness democrats this election. Thats it for today. Have a great week, and well see you next fox news sunday. Announcer the following is a paid advertisement for cold plasma subd by perricone md. How old does your neck make you look . Would you like to take years off your appearance and help remove some of the signs of aging on your neck for a look that is firmer, tighter, and more youthful . Well, now you can. Introducing dr. Perricones cold plasma subd. Subd is specifically formulated for the area called the submandibular. Often neglected, the skin in this area has unique needs, and cold plasma subd helps tackle the most common signs of aging on the chin, jawline, neck, and