Transcripts For KTIV Meet The Press 20151123

Always suspects. And what crime scene investigators found when they poured over greg and chiquitas house was, well, at first glance not much. No weapons certainly. No bloodsoaked clothes. They took dna swabs and bagged various items for lab analysis. And then in a closet they found a really oddball souvenir. An audio recording made by greg, of him and chiquita engaged in a screaming match. You said, im going to leave you with the end tables. Im leaving you with that sofa. Im leaving you with all this because i dont need it. You can have it. Thats what you told me. You can have it. Reporter this sounded like a couple splitting the sheets, divvying up the household goods. Oh, thats all i had when you came here . Yes, it is reporter denita was aware that her sister, chiquita, was unhappy. But realistically she didnt think her strongwilled sister would ever be happy in a marriage. You know in a relationship you have to compromise. I dont think she was willin to do it. It was her way or no way. Reporter denita says her tempestuous sister was always threatening to storm out of the marriage right up to her last day. And that morning of february 19th she called me. And she said that, d, i just cant do the married thing anymore. Reporter gregs parents, silver ray harris and joycie henderson, believe the couple had just hit a rough patch. I think it had to do with her not bein home very often. She would take cases that would take her to new orleans and shed work on cases till late up into the night. Too much career goin on for her, huh . Yeah. And no time for him. And i think he wanted more time. Reporter but in the early hours of the investigation, detectives learned the fight recorded at the couples home wasnt an isolated incident. Their files showed that a 911 domestic call brought police to greg and chiquitas house two months before they got married. What was that all about . Police were called out because chiquita accused greg of hitting her. From what we understand, a charge was filed against both of them. Reporter with that in mind, when greg sat down with investigators, the conversation became contentious, even combative. I loved my wife. We was trying to make this relationship work. You were trying to make the relationship work. No, we both were. Reporter theyd had problems, he admitted, but said he wasnt violent with chiquita. The detectives told greg what theyd picked up on that chiquita was leaving the marriage. Wrong, countered the husband. She was still living with me. You go to my house and there aint no clothes packed. Yeah. Well, if she was leaving, why did she ask me to come over there and help her . Movies, doing everything else. Reporter they reviewed gregs timeline the night of the killing. How he brought his wife dinner and left her still working at the office sometime around 8 30. Where did you go . Where did i go . I went home. I went straight home. Straight home . Which path did you took home . I got on the interstate. Reporter thats when police, clearly suspicious of greg, used a ploy to smoke him out, to catch him in a lie. If he were in fact lying. According to the cameras, thats not the path which you had taken last night. We convinced him that we had cameras up, which we do have cameras up. We convinced him that we can track his cell phone. In fact, did you have anything like that . No, we did not. We were just bluffing him. You know we do phone records . Your phone records, her phone records. It tells every tower that you hit when you make your phone calls. Thats fine. Thats fine. Reporter and so, with greg thinking the cops knew his every move, they confronted him with an important question about the place where chiquitas wallet had already been found. Whens the last time you been on gardier lane . Gardier lane . I went to gardier lane last night. Really . Yes. What time did you go to gardier lane . I dont know what time it was. Approximately. Whats he say hes doing there . He said he went to buy steroids. Hes a big guy and he lift weights and he said thats where his steroid dealer lived. Little street transaction. Right. Reporter whatever the explanation, greg harris had put himself in the neighborhood where the wallet had been tossed. For the cops, it was a gotcha moment. And while they had no evidence no dna, no forensics that connected him to the killing they did have some leverage. That old domestic dispute call. Though she and greg were charged, only the charge against chiquita was dropped. Why are you the only one who had a warrant . All of this was supposed to be dismissed. Now other than this, i dont know a thing about it. I never hit this girl a day in my life. Reporter so, using a year and a half old warrant unrelated to the death of Chiquita Tate, the police put greg in custody for a few days. So they could put him on ice, huh . Absolutely. While the forensics were being tested from the crime scene. Reporter but then, seemingly seemingly out of the blue came a strange tip from an anonymous caller. Saying, you need to look into this angle, because i think i know who may have killed chiquita. This is a voice on the phone . Female voice . This is a voice on the phone. And its like, you need to look into it. Love triangle. Reporter did that explain the clump of hair, the impassioned intimate killing . The investigation was charging off in a wholly new direction. Coming up i knew the two ladies. Reporter two ns . Exactly what would police find . And chiquitas husband greg was he in danger . Someone came up to his bedroom window at about 3 30 in the morning and shoots in the window. Reporter when dateline continues. Affordable renters insurance. With great coverage it protects my personal belongings should they get damaged, stolen or destroyed. [doorbell] uh, excuse me. Delivery. Hey. Lo mein, szechwan chicken, chopsticks, soy sauce and you got some fortune cookies. Have a good one. 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Covergirl is the easy way to draw attention Perfect Point liner smudge with spongetip to create a smokin kitten eye lash blast mascara adds an instant blast of volume add a pow to your brow wow from easy, breezy, beautiful reporter just as investigators were zeroing in on the husband greg harris, they got a tip that brought them back to Chiquita Tates list of clients. But it wasnt about any of the career criminals on her roster. The tip concerned two female clients. A samesex couple that chiquita had been helping with an adoption case. The anonymous caller suggested their lawyer client relationship was more than that. A female said that it was two women that chiquita was had a love triangle. She even gave the two suspects name as well. She indicated that one suspect had scratches on on their body. Reporter well, that would explain the crime of passion, which youd think is a signature here. Yes. Reporter and also maybe where theres hair in the palm in her hand. Thats correct. Reporter some sort of a tussle. Yes. Reporter that goes a long way towards explaining a lot of it. Theres some sort of yeah, if its true. Some sort of a romantic relationship thats gone wrong. Reporter Police Confirmed the names of the two women on chiquitas client list and then paid each a call. We had to investigate and contact both individuals and got statements from them. Reporter the detectives told the prosecutor that both women insisted chiquita wasnt their lover, just a good attorney. We loved her work. She was a friend, but thats where it ended. Reporter still, the detectives took a closer look at the couple. We didnt see any scratches on their arms. We also realized one of the suspects had braids and not a weave in her hair. Reporter whats more, police say that both women had alibis. Legal assistant Lessie Hookfin was sure the secret love triangle was nonsense. Owe i knew about the adoption. I knew the clients and everything was going well. You can see that thats somehow involved with . Never. Reporter chiquitas being butchered . No. No, i knew the two ladies. And i knew the case was going well. Reporter but you didnt see any difficulty there or any bad blood or no, not at all. Not at all. Reporter so the investigators put the tip in their back files and proceeded to check out the tipster. They traced her call to a town in texas. They even drove there and after questioning a few locals, managed to reach a woman by phone with an oddly familiar voice. I immediately recognized her as the voice that i heard that had called the office that time. And i asked her how did she know Chiquita Tate. And she said, well, Chiquita Tate used to be married to my brother. Reporter this was greg harris sister. Yes, thats correct. Greg harris sister. Reporter so the tip that sent detectives off to texas had led them right back to greg, the husband. Was greg or maybe his sister trying to plant a false lead . Prem burns added that to her list of concerns about greg harris. She was also discovering that greg had a bad history with some of the women in his life. Control issues and a temper according to chiquitas family members and some old girlfriends. He just wanted them within his eyesight and within his control. Reporter she also learned that chiquita had taken out a lease on an apartment. She hadnt yet moved into her new place, but prem burns believes chiquita was indeed going to divorce greg. Which meant he had lost control of her. And i believe thats what happened with chiquita is that he was not going to let her. Reporter nobody leaves me, huh . Nobody leaves greg harris, unless greg harris throws them out of the house onto the front reporter gregs brother mike his brother, he says, wasnt violent. And whats more, he says greg and chiquita were working it we all go through bumps. But you theres also a phase called reconciliation and healing, you know. And thats what they had. Reporter and as for that tip about the samesex couple, gregs father silver ray says his daughter wasnt trying to throw off the cops. The female love triangle was a legitimate concern of his. She got that strictly from me, which i got it from another attorney. And we just wanted to look at all the options to make sure that all the bases were covered. We wanted to look at these two women. Reporter did you encourage her to call the cops . I didnt. Reporter with the story . Encourage her. She did it on her own. But it was it wasnt nothing to throw the cops off. If youre investigating, you got to look at all the angles. Announcer in fact, gregs father and mother joycie and brother mike say they couldnt believe that police even suspected greg. Not the greg they knew. My greg was a son that helped raise his brothers. He made sure that they were fed when i worked. He made sure when they came home they did their homework. You have people you want to my model was my older brother. I wouldnt be the person i am today if it wasnt for him. Reporter even chiquitas sister could not imagine greg as the killer. Can you see him in that office . No. Reporter in a rage slashing your sister . No. Reporter fight thats moving from here to there . No. I cant even picture it. Reporter gregs parents and his brother believe that whoever killed chiquita, also wanted greg dead. They recount an incident that happened after greg was released from custody. Shots were fired into his home. Someone came up to his bedroom window at about 3 40 in the morning and shoots in the bedroom window five times with a. 10 millimeter gun. Reporter oh. Hoping that he was in the bed. It just so happened greg fell asleep on the sofa. God saved him. He was not in the bed. Reporter gregs family, convinced he was innocent, became only more so when they heard this. Scrapings from under chiquitas nails showed dna not only from greg but from someone else as well. An unknown male. What could that mean . If greg harris had done this, you would have found an enormous amount of blood. That just wasnt the case. Another dna surprise is coming and in court a surprise i just about pass reporter the case against him greg harris was the last person known to have seen chiquita alive. His marriage to chiquita had been volatile. And he put himself near the street where chiquitas stolen wallet was tossed. But what galvanized this case for the prosecutor was a pair of sunglasses discovered in greg harris car. The glasses are under the seat. Reporter is there blood evidence on them . There absolutely was. There was a combination of his blood and her blood on the left lens. When i was told that that is their blood mixed on the left lens and the right arm of those anything more. Reporter on march 16th, 2009, greg harris was charged with seconddegree murder. He went on trial two years after chiquitas death in march of 2011. The prosecution set out to prove that greg killed chiquita because she was going to leave him. Former girlfriends testified that greg had a jekyll and hyde personality. Sweet when he was courting, volatile and controlling once he won them over. He would hit them. He would fight with these girls. As long as he could control them, he was fine. Reporter prosecutors played the 911 tape from that Domestic Abuse call. While both chiquita and greg were charged, the call didnt sound as though they were locked in a fair fight. He grabbed my finger and he ring. I threw it at him. And then he and then he choked me, and i couldnt move. Reporter and the prosecution argued greg had another motive money. The night the murder happened, he called his boss and or a loan on my 401k. And his boss said, you know, i cant do it. Im sorry, greg. Reporter but as prem burns told the jury, greg could get about 60,000 in insurance if chiquita were to die. I think money was motivation but more so i think chiquita had planned to leave greg and thats one thing greg could not accept. Reporter the prosecution told the jury greg may have been angry, but he was also cool and calculating, planning both the crime and a coverup. Case in point those long hairs that suggested a female killer. The state argued greg brought the hair to the crime scene and then planted it. Her hand was not, like, clenching it, as if she died that way. It was actually strewn, as if somebody had taken it and just weaved it through her hand. Reporter it was a ploy, said the prosecution, designed to throw off the cops. Just like the tossed and found wallet from gardere lane, where greg eventually admitted he went the night of the killing. Gardere lane . I went to gardere lane last night. Reporter misdirection, according to the prosecutor, was gregs m. O. She even suspects he fired those shots into his own bedroom to make it look as though the killer was still at large. It was kind of like, gee, let me call and say that theres a lesbian love triangle. Let me plant the hair. Its like, let me just go one step further. Reporter and of course, there was the blood evidence. Prosecutors presented more than the bloodstained glasses. A lab analysis revealed there were dots of blood throughout greg and chiquitas house. There was a significant bloodstain on a clorox bottle. The clorox bottle was out up on the sink and it had blood visible to the eyes. Reporter prosecutors say that stain contained chiquitas and gregs dna. Reporter what makes sense to you . What makes sense to me is that greg harris had no reason zero whatsoever. Reporter Lance Unglesby was on the defense team, and he argued there wasnt nearly enough evidence to convict greg harris. Nothing put him at the site of the killing, the alleged motive was weak, and the blood evidence paltry. Our theory was very clear. If greg harris had done this, you wouldve found an enormous amount of blood in that mercedes and on his clothes and at the house in baker. And that just wasnt the case. Reporter lance, out at the house there, very curious about this clorox bottle, where again they think they see comingled blood on what about that . Thats a problem for you. Well, practically its not a problem. In the normal course of living a little blood on a clorox bottle is really not that big a deal. Chiquita lived there. Of course her dna would be on that bottle. Reporter as for the hair that the prosecution said was planted . The defense argued that was just an unproven theory. Those two female clients may not have been involved but the long strands suggest another woman may have been there. It suggested that a female had maybe killed her and that in the middle of the fight shed pulled the hair out. Between that and the amount of cleanup, that would have been required, we always believe two people were involved in this murder. Reporter and as for that visit to gardere lane . The defense lawyers say greg was reluctant to admit it, but not because he had tossed the wallet. Well, because he was buying steroids. He was discussing buying steroids, which is illegal. Reporter kill her for the insurance . The defense said, no way. He had too much goin for him. We did not buy into the prosecutors theory that he would do it because he was in had some financial stress. We didnt buy into that for a minute. Reporter the defense argued cops didnt look hard enough at the list of scary clients who may have wanted chiquita dead. And that unknown male dna under her fingernails . The source, still unknown. We believe there was just more to this than was presented to the jury. 16 days. And then the jurors were given their instructions. After listening to the evidence, denita was torn. And she remembers how she felt when, after three and a half hours of deliberation, the jury announced it had a verdict. Reporter now, take me right through your mind and your stomach as youre walkin back into the courtroom. Shakin badly. Barely could stand on my feet. We holdin hands, walkin back in there. Reporter did they see greg as a stone killer capable of premeditated murder . Or an innocent, grieving husband . The answer is, neither. The verdict they reached was something in between. Guilty of manslaughter, a lesser charge which the judge allowed them to consider. The prosecutor was flabbergasted. I i just about passed out and so did the defense attorney. Nobody argued manslaughter. Reporter she wanted to know why the jury rejected her argument of premeditated murder. I went back and talked to the jury. And they said, well, you know what we think . We think something just went on up there that got out of hand. Reporter the judge had a lot of latitude in imposing the sentence. Manslaughter could carry anywhere from a few months to 40 years. A lesser conviction of a lesser charge, but the judge threw the metaphorical book at him. She did. Reporter forty years without the possibility of parole. Correct. Reporter the maximum sentence. Greg harris has a new lawyer whos trying to get his conviction reversed, saying the judge should never have presided. Before trial, judge trudy white disclosed that she knew the victim and that chiquita had been her law clerk. The defense didnt object. Should you have gotten her recused . Absolutely not. Reporter was that was that a trial error . No, not whatsoever. No, she was a very fair judge. Reporter but gregs new lawyer, rick gallot, says the judge did not disclose everything about their relationship. We discovered that chiquita, the the victim had actually represented judge white in a civil lawsuit. Reporter judge white did not respond to our request for a comment. The new lawyer also says the Harris Family has received letters since the trial claiming someone else killed chiquita because she knew too much about but the cops will tell you that every lead they chased down brought them back to one man, someone who robbed a family of its shining young star. So its been years now, lessie. Do you do you miss her . Oh, i miss her so much. Everything. Her good moods, her bad moods, her good days, her bad days, i miss it all. Reporter baton rouge. The river rolls on. But without that fiery young lawyer whod come so far so fast. Thats all for now. Im lester holt. Thanks for joining us. How safe are we at home . Well talk to the experts including Homeland Security chief jeh johnson and former defense secretary and head of the cia leon panetta on what needs to be done. Plus, a bad week for american leadership. President obama sounds defensive. I dont know what more you want me to add. While the republicans go over the top on refugees. I would encourage you mr. President , come back and insult me to my face. I want to surveil. I want surveillance of these people that are coming in. How will the isis threat and the politics of fear impact the 2016 campaign . Also, Syrian Refugees and america. Are there legitimate reasons to slow the process or is this just islamophobia . Joining me for insight and analysis are tom brokaw of nbc news, Kathleen Parker of the washington post, Colleen Cooper of the New York Times and ron fornier of the national journal. Welcome to sunday and a special edition of meet the press. Good sunday morning. The belgian capital, brussels, remains in lockdown with soldiers on the streets amid fears of an imminent isis attack. Police in that city are also searching door to door for one of the paris attackers who is believed to be hiding somewhere in the brussels area. Meanwhile, overnight in malaysia president obama struck a different tone than he did earlier this week and he addressed americans fears about terror specifically. The most powerful tool we have to fight isil is to say that were not afraid. To not elevate them. That somehow buy into their fantasy that theyre doing something important. Theyre a bunch of killers. This morning well look at the isis threat from all the angles. How do we build an International Coalition against isis . And if so, how . How serious is the threat of isis to us here in the United States . How do we remain safe while not giving into islamophobia . And how will all of this impact the campaign for the white house in 2016. We have the top names on all those issues with us this morning. Well begin with efforts to keep america safe. This morning in new york city, a counterterror exercise took place and right now youve seen simulating how the authorities would deal with an active shooter situation in the new york city subway. Joining me from this exercise is the head of 2 department of Homeland Security jeh johnson and, no police chief bill bratton. Gentlemen, welcome back to meet the press for both of you. Good morning, chuck. Good morning. Secretary johnson, let me start with you. Theres a lot of chatter, a lot of unsubstantiated threats including one in atlanta having to do with a wrestling event tonight. What can you tell the American Public about any specific threats out there and how concerned are you . Chuck, let me reiterate what the fbi director and i have said before. We have no specific credible intelligence about a threat of the paris type directed at the homeland here. We are always concerned about potential copycat acts, home born, homegrown, violent extremism of the type that weve seen in recent months and years and so the exercise today is reflective of where we think we need to be and so this is also something supported by the department of Homeland Security through our grant making activity and so we want the American Public to know that were on the job, were vigilant and were continually reevaluating our security posture. Mr. Secretary, what can you tell me about brussels . The fact that the threat was so imminent that they shut down the subway system, the u. S. Embassy said shelter in place. I assume theres been some intelligence sharing here. How serious is that brussels threat and how concerning is that that its somehow related to something that might happen here . Were continually in touch with Law Enforcement p intelligence authorities in western europe and brussels and in paris and elsewhere and we monitor these things. As i said, were concerned about potential copycat acts, things of that nature, and thats why were out here today. Were continuing to be vigilant. Were continuing to monitor, reevaluate. Theres also a role for the public to play, too, chuck, this was in you see something, say something. Thats got to be more than a slogan. But in general with this Holiday Season coming up, we want the public to continue to go to public events, celebrate the Holiday Season, travel, be with their families and the like and to know that Law Enforcement, our intelligence community, our National Security officials are on the job overtime. Mr. Bratton, you just completed it was an active shooter exercise of mass transit and the new york subway system. When you look at what happened in paris and, frankly, how inexpensive that operation may have actually been and that it was sort of a complicated cell but one that didnt use a lot of complicated weapons, does it make you change any tactics . Are you trying new things based on what you learned from paris . Well, what were doing here today, the video that you just showed of the exercise were engaged in, this is part of a continuing series of exercises. This was planned before the paris event but it has person is paris elements involved in it, including a scenario where a individual with a suicide vest. What were doing here today in conjunction with Homeland Security is testing out new technology, ballistics detection, video technology, communications technology, and building into it some of what weve learned from paris. Beginning back with the mumbai attacks many years ago, american policing and Homeland Security and federal agencies have constantly been adjusting with everything we learned from these events, paris, mali,l bali, were building all of that into the exercises going forward. One of the most prominent events taking place is the macys thanksgiving day parade. Commissioner, what extra steps are you taking . Well, were fortunate that over the past year mayor de blasio here in new york has funded us to the extent that we now have about a thousand more officers that will be focused on counterterrorism and cwd management. We have a new response group, 800 officers. We have a new Critical Response they will be out at that parade. For a change well have great weather, low wind, the balloons will be up. Were expecting about three Million People to be in new york city for that event. Its going to be a great event and it will be a safe and secure event. Secretary johnson, weve had a heated debate about the syrian refugee issue, but there talking with Law Enforcement officials, you hear that if congress did anything, youd like them focus on the visa waiver issue. Explain. Is it easier for an isis operative to get into this country to get a visa than it is for the refugee process . Chuck, the reality is that Something Like only 2,100 Syrian Refugees have been resettled in this country through a very extensive vetting process that takes Something Like 18 to 24 months. The Visa Waiver Program is focused on, frankly, since ive been secretary because there are a number of foreign terrorist fighters who have gone into iraq and syria from countries in europe and elsewhere and so last year we enhanced the security of the Visa Waiver Program. This is a program where people in certain countries can come here without a visa. And weve been focused on enhancing the security of that. I ordered enhancements late last year then again in august and Congress Also is focused on this and i think that there are ways that congress should we eliminate the Waiver Program for a while . I would not do that at all. The Visa Waiver Program is very, very important to lawful trade, travel, commerce, a very Popular Program that people use virtually everyday. But there are security enhancements that we have made and we should evaluate whether more is necessary and im happy to have that conversation with our friends in congress. Theyre interested in this, too. Commissioner bratton, i want to ask you to react to something else. Washington, d. C. Police chief kathy lanier on 60 minutes tonight is going to make a recommendation that in an active shooter situation if somebody can take the gunman out either with a weapon or any other way she actually recommends that you do that because police cant get there in time, the 9 11 call cant get there in time. In an active shooter situation more victims are going die in the first ten minutes before Law Enforcement gets there. Ive not heard that from a Law Enforcement official before. What do you make of that recommendation . Theres nothing new about that, that if somebody is armed in one of those scenarios and has the potential. But the reality is somebody with a handgun up against somebody with an ak47 is going to be outgunned and is putting but at the same time, if the scenario allows for that, then certainly we would support that. But id like to go back to one of the earlier comments about congress. Congress really wants to do something instead of just talking about something, help us out with that terrorist watch list, those thousands of people that can purchase firearms in this country. Im more worried about them than i am about Syrian Refugees to be quite frank with you. So if Congress Wants to do something to help the Law Enforcement community and the American Public, lets start getting serious about doing something that they can actually do something about. Commissioner bratton, secretary johnson, thank you for joining me very briefly this morning. Thank you, glad to be here. Thank you. Now to the key diplomatic problem. Although there seems to be global consensus that isis needs to be wiped out, why is it so hard to build a coalition to do just that . Our chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel has been lookiki into angleo answerr that question. Reporter the day the french now call black friday was isis terrifying breakout moment. The moment the world realized that the group is a global threat. Its a level of sophistication that took the Obama Administration by surprise. Well, i think there was a widespread belii that it was just another violentt jihadist group. And that these groups were brutal and because of their brutality they failed. Isis turns out to be the most successful terrorist organization in recent history. Francois heisberg says Security Forces aa struggling to keepp up withhhe group healls byhe arab name daesh. We have yet to build up a skill base and a number of people need it to keep track of an organization as professional and as competent as daesh. Daesh leaves al qaeda until the dust. Reporter but aftft claiming responsibility for the russian plane, the beirut bombings and now paris, isis has put itself in almost everyones cross hairs. France intensified its bombing of the isis capital raqqah and moved an eric carrier into the region. Russia is attacking isis, launching more cruise missiles, president obama promised to punish the group relentlessly. Ashington has been attacking isis for over a year and iran and hezbollah have been at it longer than that. Why cant so many powerful nations and groups beat a terrorist army . One reason is obvious critics say theres no coordination and no war can be won without a plan. But whats worse, there are rivalries over the future of the land isis currently occupies, especially in the middle east. Saudi arabia and many of the United States other allies dont like the Islamic State but its destruction is not their top priority, its third or fourth down the list. Turkey, for example, is more worried about the kurds establishing their own state. Saudi arabia is more worried about iran and so on down the list. There are very few countries who share the United States desire to destroy the Islamic State as a first order priority. Reporter many are wondering whether what happened in paris will be enough to shock the world into finding some sort of consensus, or will it take yet another terrorist massacre to do that . And isis is now threatening attacks in the United States. Richard edge untilngel in turkey. Thank you very much. Im now joined by leon panetta. He served as secretary of defense and director of the cia under president obama. Secretary panetta, nice to see you, sir. Let me ask with a very simple current strategy against isis working . Well, obviously theres a lot of concern about whether or not weve deployed the resources to be able to accomplish the mision that the president described. I think the mission that he said is the right mission, which is to disrupt, dismantle, and destroy isis. Thats the right mission. But i think that the resources applied to that ssion, frfrnkly, have not been sufficient to confront that. And faror that reason we have to be muffin morech more aggressive and unified to take on isis. In politico, one of the former counterterrorism advisors to president obama and president bush wrote this by any measure our strtregy in iraq and syria is not succeeeeng or not succeeng fast enough. We are playing a more long game when a disruptive strategy is required. Basically the argument is maybe this strategy is correct but the speed with which its being implemented is whats wrong. Do you buy that argument . Well, i think he makes some very good points. Look, if were going to confront isis, you know, clearly weve been through actsts of war these last few weeks that make it very clear that they are a clear and present danger not only to europe but to this country as well. And were going to have to take some very specific steps here. One is to unify this effort. As Richard Engel pointed out, this effort is not coordinated. People are not working gether. Erybodys kind of d dng their own thing on different targets. We need to unify the command. We need to set a joint command center where all of these countries are together on their objective and secondly we need to increase our effort there. We need to increase the tempo of our air strikes. We need to organize ground forces, particularly the sunnis and the kurds and arm them so that they y n take territory back from isis. And, frankly, we are need to increase special forces and our intelligence advisors not only to guide these forces but to go with them in order to ensure that we are successful in this effort. You know, you were not shy about criticizing the president and the strategy on syria. Im curious. Do you think wed be in a different place today if you criticized there was a failure to push t t irara government to allow a residual force to remain in iraq . The decision not to arm Syrian Rebels in 2012 and the failure to follow through against assad when the president said he crossed the red line. Taken together, if any one thing had changed there, would we be in a different place today, mr. Secretary . Chuck, ats really hard to say because of the chaos that were seeing in syria. Weve gotten a awful lot of people that bear some responsibility there, including the United States. Assad is probably the primary villain for whats going on if syria. Iran bears some responsibility for injecting themselves into the civil war. Hezbollah is there. Weve got a number of opposing forces. A lot of extremists that are part of those opposing forces in syria. The problem with maliki who basically threw the sunnis not only out of the government but out of the military, added fuel to the development of isis and i think the United States by virtue of not getting involved sooner in trying to establish some kind of moderere force there, i think all of those are factors that have contributed to the situation that were facing now. All right, our panel is also here with me, my colleague tom brokaw of nbc news, Kathleen Parker of the washington post, Helene Cooper of the New York Times and ron foreignier ierfornier of the national journal. Tom, i know you w wnted to ask the secretata a question. ve been talkiki to national curity experts and theyve been saying the same thing. The president up to this point has been, to put it kindly, the commander in chief but not very commanding and theres a great deal of concern that on the other side, on the republican side, theres too much loose talk about putting thousands of american troops on the ground there, suggesting that the americans can get involved in a ground war. What specifically should be the role of the United States on the ground in that part of the world in your judgment . Well, tom, first and foremost i think the u. S. Has to lead in this effort because what weve learned a long time ago is that the United States does not lead nobody else will. So the United States has to provide Stronger Leadership in trying to unify the forces that are there. In addition to that i think its very clear that we are going to have to commit additional weve got to have weve got to speed up our air strikes. Air strikes are great, were hitting some targets, but air ststkes alonere not going to win here. What isis has achieved is the ability to gain territory. And its that territory, its the caliphate where theyre designing their ability to kind of now do outreach and attack other countries. Weve got to take that territory away from them. The its been a year. Theyre still mosul. Theyre still in ramadi. Theyre e ill in raqqqq. Those are the areas we have to go after in order to be able to defeat isis ultimately. Weve got to take the territory back and weve got to make sure that other countries are part of the effort to try to deal with isis. All of those steps need to be taken. On that specific front, actually, on territory, helene, you had a specific question on thth front. I do. But im alsls curious, mr. Secretary. Youre talking right now about unifying the antiisis effort. Given that two of the Major Players three of the Major Players on that field are the United States, russia, and iran and these are not three countries that actually get along, theyre very much adversarial how exactly do you propose we u uify this command and unify t ts efffft . Do you envision iranian and Russian Forces being under an american command . How does this work . No, not really, because i think, you know, it would be nice to have the russians be part of that but im not sure they will and i dont think iran would as well. My focus would be to have nato countries. Im surprised they havent invoked article v of the nato charter. We invoked article v after 9 1 they should certainly do it now and be able to get nato and its military forces engaged in that effort. Secondly, we need the arab countries, the moderate arab countries, saudi arabia, uae, jordan and others to be part of that effort. Weve got to focus on that effort because thats doable. Whene went into libya we had over 50 nations that were part of that effort. We had a joint command center at naples. Thats the effort we need to put together and focus on our objectives and what were trying to achieve. Russia, obviously it would be nice to have them as part of that effortrtbut, frankly, i donttrusthem in this effort at this time and i certainly dont trust iran to be part of that effort as well. Weve got to focus on our allies and the countries that work with us to try to achieve the mission that we need to go after. And very quickly secretary panetta, would you somehow prioritize isis over assad at this point or do they have to be pursued simultlteously . I think weve got to go after both of them. I dont think we can suddenly say assad you know, we shouldnt Pay Attention to him because assad is an International Criminal and we should not be part of an effort to allow assad to stay in place. But our priority here, our main focus now, ought to be in going ter isis and making sure we defeat thee theyy the clear and present danger. Theyre the ones we have to defeat if were going to be successful at protecting the american people. Secretary panetta, former director of the cia, always good to hear your wisdom on this, thanks for joining me this morning. Thank you. Much more on how we confront isis coming up. The politics of fear. How do we remain safe and still not give i i to islamophobia. I waa to surveil, i want urveillance of these people that are bob dylan. To impre my language skills, ive read all of your lyrics. Youve read all of my lyrics . I can read 800 million pages per second. Thats fast. My Analysis Shows your major themes are that time passes. And love fades. That sounds about right. I have never knownwnove. Maybe we should write a song together. R. I i n sing. You can sing . Do be bop. Be bop do. Do be do be do. Do do do be do. Jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive [ male announcer ] some come here to build something smarter. Some come here to build something stronger. Others come to build something faster. Something safer. Something greener. People come to boeing to do many different things. But its always about the very thing we do best. The paris attack was roundly criticizeddfor being tone deaf and dissssionate. The republican president ial candidates have been playing on the politics of fear in an extraordinary way. Database is okay and watch list is okay and surveillance is okay. If you dont mind, i want to be i want to surveil i want surveillance of these mosques, okoky . [ cheers and applausus] if thats okay. I want surveillance. And you know what . Weve had it before and well have it again. Those planes that flew into the twin towers werent piloted by a bunch of ticked off presbyterians. If theres a rabid dog running around your neighborhood, you probably are notoing assume something goodod about that dog and youre probably going to put your children out of the way. It doesnt mean you hate all dogs. The police of fear can be effective politically, but when does tough rhetoric turn into islamophobia . Thats the discussion well have right after the break. Proud of you, son. Ge a manufacturer. Well thats why i dug this out for you. Its your grandpappys hammer and he would have wanted you to have it. It meant a lot to him. Yes, ge makes powerful machines. But ill be writing the code that will allow those machines to share information with each other. Ill be changing the way the world works. interrupting you cant pick it up, can you . Go ahead. He cant lift the hahaer. Its okay y ough youre going to change the world. Across america, people. Are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes. With noninsulin victoza. For a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar. But it didnt get me to my goal. So i asked my doctor about victoza. He said victoza works differently than pills. And comes in a pen. Victoza is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. Its taken once a day, any time. Victoza is not for weight loss, but itay help you lose some weht. Victoza is an injectable prescription medicine that may improveblood sugar in adults. With type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. It is not recommended as the first medication and should not be used in people. With type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. Victoza has. Not been studied with mealtime insulin. Victoza is not insulin. Do not take victoza if you have a person or Family History of medullary thyroid cancer. Multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza. Or any of its ingredients. Symptoms of a serious allergic reaction may include itching. Rash, or difficulty breathing. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. 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Arcelan, has this week been how tough has it been to be a Muslim American . Well, chuck in the seven days since the parse attack weve seen mosques attacked here in the United States in omaha, nebraska, pflugerville, texas, that was 43yearold man in st. Petersburg, florida, aested by the fbi for saying hes going to shoot and kill every single muslim child he sees and Southwest Airlines had two or three flights where are muslims were taken off of the flights simply because they were muslim so its been par for the course since september 11. I want to play weve seen the republican rhetoc this time. I want to play for sort of a comparison what youve heard today from some of these republican president ial candidates and what we heard from the last republican president on the issue of islam. Here it is. I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down and i watched in jersey city, new jersey where thousands and thousands of peoplee were cheheing. T t face offer the or have er the terror is not the true face of islam. Thats not what islam is all about. Islam is peace. That would be like saying we werent at war with nazis because we were afraid to offend some germans who may have been the members of the nazi party but werent violent themselves. This is a clash of civilization. When it comes s the common rights of needsds and men and wwen, there is no clash of civilizations. If theres a rabid dog running around your neighborhood you probably are not going to assume something good about that dog. And we respect the faith and we welcome people of all faiths in america. And were not going to let the war on terror or terrorists cause us to change our values. Arsalan, what did the Bush White House do behind the scenes to make sure they got this right . I. I think what george w. Bush said, he would be considered an outcast in todays 2015 republican party. We see people like donald trump saying that we should have a database of all american muslims. I wonder if the two members of congress, my buddy keith carson, would they need a mohammed database, with kareem abduljabbar, funniest guys in america, dave chappelle, special i. D. S for muslims, that would be similar to the yellow stars of david that people had to wear in nazi germany . This time . Would it be helpful if Muslim Community leaders got together with these candidates . Requested a sit down of the a conversation to tone down the rhetoric . Asked them specifically to tone down the rhetoric andas anything taken place that you know of . Kathleen, during the 2008 president ial campaign when there were whisper campaigns going around of barack obama being a crypto muslim manchurian candidate, you didnt see anybody speak out against this until colin powell came on this show to tell his fellow