Announcer and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Earlier this month, naacp president , cornell brooks and others arrested at the Alabama Office of senator Jeff Sessions. President trumps pick of course for attorney general. He johins us to talk about his concerns about the president s cabinet picks and this ongoing fight for civil rights in the social media activism. Pleasure to have you. Thank you. Nomination of senator sessions which we, cory booker on this program last week, courageously came out against, sitting senator, to oppose his nomination. That, you know those hearings have been postponed. Until next week. Until next week. So what do you expect is going to happen next week . Well, we are hopeful. Heres what we notice. They are there is a super pac that its running ads in support of senator Jeff Sessions as the astoe attorney general. That its rare if not unprecendented. What that suggests to us is we may not yet be winning, but we are certainly gaining. Because the the phone lines at the capitol have been inundated from people across the country stating their objections to having as attorney general a senator who has decleanined to support efforts to fight Voter Suppression by mouthing support for the myth of voter fraud. They are declining to support an attorney general whose call for law and order. And the terms who supports a president who wants to expand stop and frisk. This a attorney general nominee is anathma to many, we is not a collegial senator in the senate, but rather lacks the prosecutorial credibility to enfor laws on behalf of everyone at department of justice. Speaking of voter fraud what do you make, we have a panel tomorrow night, Supreme Court scholars and get into this tomorrow night. But tonight as this is breaking news everywhere, heartbreaking news for some of us, what do you make of these comments by the president that millions of undocumented americans voted and thats why he didnt win the popular vote. Whats wrong with him . I cant speculate as the to what is wrong with the president . I can speculate as to what is wrong with his set of alternate facts. Scholars will tell you, a study out of a billion ballots cast, literally a handful of instances of voter fraud. We can go from end of the country to the other. We can find siding with the naacp, again and again, in terms of Voter Suppression as opposed to voter fraud. Voter fraud is a form of suppressing, should say, excuse me, voter fraud is a myth that is used as a pretext for enacting laws that are voter suppressive. Pushed by republicans. Pushed by republicans. When we have voter id laws where the legislators know that one out of every ten dont have a voter id, seniors who do not have these ids in the state of north carolina, a woman by the name of ms. Rosanel eaton who is the better part of a century old, voting for decades on end, but did not have a governmentissued photo id. They know that these laws are designed to prevent africanamericans from voting. Think about this. In texas, you pass a law which says, if you have an id which allows you to carry concealed weapon, deemed to be sufficient, senate, democratic proof to vote. An id allows you to carry book of english, engineering, shakespeare, insufficient, democratic proof to vote. Th over in the Fourth Circuit in north carolina, they passed a law which basically rolls back all of these measures which encouraged people to vote. And it rolled back a voter id law. In fact, the court found that the state legislature engaged in intentional racial interrogation, carried out with precision. The point being, the president should know what the federal courts have recognized. Mainly voter fraud is a myth. Voter suppression is ugly, real, on going. Uhhuh. What do you expect or not expect this president will do the next time sadly there is a, an africanamerican male or female shot and killed by a cop i saw it in these rallies across the country last weekend which was empowering to see these women rallies in the country, around the globe, a black lives matter presence at most if not all the rallies. It made me think, respectfully, when the country feels that white womens lives are under attack, we show up and take to the streets. I am all for that. But we dont see that same kind of turnout. We dont see the same kind of numbers, when the lives of black men and women are snuffed out. What is your sense of what is going to happen when that sad occasion occurs again . Um, i am concerned. I am concerned, i wont say fearful, because we dont take counsel of our fears. But we are very concerned because we are headed toward a kind of catastrophic train wreck unless we reverse course in terms of policy. If you have an attorney general who supports the expansion of stop and frisk, who supports the, the expansion of the prison industrial complex, who is not concerned about the 2. 3 million american behind bars, 70 million americans with criminal records, and who has a record that is frankly runs counter to what red and blue state governors are doing. In other word theyre trying to dismantle the present industrial complex. If we have an attorney general like that going into freddie grays baltimore, into cleveland, into Sandra Blands texas, or erin garners long island, then next time there is a tragedy we will have a problem. Because you have millenial activists and activists in the street who are not going to capitulate, who are not going to compromise, theyre not going back. And in fact, we are trying to inch our way forward, so we have got to be clear about this. He has been clear about law and order. Law and order. Hit that theme in the inauguration address matter of fact. Seems pretty clear to me what the response from the white house is going to when that dreaded moment comes. I will say this. Say this. We are prepared to work with the administration for the advancement of constitutional principles and Constitutional Values and an end to stop and frisk, and end to raescial profiling and an end to Predatory Police in so many of our cities the but as we said on day one, after the election, depending on this president s constitutional fidelity, we are prepared to either be at his side or be in his face. And, if you are talking about the the taking of innocent lives, black lives, or whatever color they happen to be, the naacp will be the strong opposition. That means being in the streets. That means going to jail. That means engaging in massive civil disobedience. And i would note this. I believe that next time you have a tragedy under this administration, you are going to see many more people turning out. In the streets. In the streets. Yeah. And, what i have seen, traveling around the country, its that the people in the crowd are multiracial, multiethnic, multigenerational. And so it is going to expand. It is going to grow. We are in the civil rights movement. Let me shift to the education nomination quick. So, devos, would appear from what i read, she things Charter Schools are the answer to everything. Privatization seems to beat answer to everything these days. Additionally. What is your read on the new new poe ttential education secretary. Were concerned. Concerned as in we think is much too, to alarmed about. Nominating someone whose distinguishing qualification is having contributed lots of money to Charter School support campaigns, particularly in michigan. Michigan is a state that spends 1 billion on Charter Schools. That has the the worst oversight, the worst accountability standards, and we have a secretary of education nominee with no experience in education, as a matter of policy, as a matter of practice, but has experience in Charter School advocacy support. Thats not enough. And, where we know, we are moving in this country where people are looking for accountability and responsibility. And so where you have states in the country that have seen the, the funding of their School System turned upside down, this is what we mean. If you support Charter Schools in ways that are, ways that are lacking in accountability. And Charter Schools, some of them, want to support and educate those who are least expensive to educate while kicking out and declining to educate those who are more expensive to educate. Children who are not, for whom english is not their first language. Children who have special needs. Children who need more. Theyre as brilliant asented bu. We have seen School Systems where the funding has been turned upside down. In other words, the public School System as a whole, has been effectively defunded. So we have seen that in, in michigan. We have certainly seen in massachusetts where they put a cap on the expansion of Charter Schools. So where you have a secretary of education nominee who wants to write a blank check to the Charter School movement, we cant get behind that. We cant support that. And, where you have a a nominee who supports privatization of public education. Now, let me put it this way. If we are alarmed by repeal while declining to replace in the con textext of health care, wouldnt we be frightened by the pros ppect of repeal and decling to replace in context of education. Nine second to ge i take your point. Totally agree. Not just you have an education nominee who hasnt really operated in that realm, thats true of other nominations as well. With all respect to dr. Ben carson, he dont know nothing abut housing except the fact that he owns a couple. He is nominated for h. U. D. What do you make of these nominees who dont seem to have any track record of experience in the areas they have been nominated to have oversight . Well here is our concern. What we are seeing, an ideological litmus test opposed to a qualification check. Where we have seen in the course of the nomination process, a kind of conveyor belt, pushing through ideological driven nominees without ethic s checks without vetting in a hurried way, sort of like the person in the express line in the grocery store, with 100 item in their cart. And in the lane for 15 items. What we are seeing is a process where we are trying to jam the people through as though the American Public is not paying attention. What are we seeing . We are seeing the phone lines for the United States senate inundated with phone calls from blue and red states. We are seeing voice mails filled up. Why . Because people refuse to capitulate and compromise with respect to their democracy. Real quickly. There have been any number of, what i would call, leading blacks as owe ppposed to black leaders invited to have audience with the president , social commentary about that. No need to get into that. I had my say in a peace i wrote for an online pubpublication. Have you been invited . Do you know black leaders invited to have audience with the president . I am not aware of that. What we have seen, staereotype y omission. They reach out to artists, entertainers, prominent africanamericans, thats good. They decleine to meet with leaders of organizations, political leaders, elected officials. My point being here, we are proud of the artists and entertainers who have who have been able to meet with the president. Wonderful. Black people are more than artists, entertainers, we are congressmen, congresswomen we, are senators, we are representatives of civil rights organizations, the point being here is there is a depth of leadership in the africanamerican community. We need to respect that. Mr. President , thank you, sir. Thank you. Good to have you on the program. Next, charles eisenstein. Stay with us. Charles eisenstein, his work focuses in part on the themes of civilization, consciousness and culture. He predicted a Trump Victory that would be prior to the november election. He joins us now to talk about what he saw that so many others did not apparently. And the condition of our country. And for that matter why he believes that this time of uncertainty also presents an opportunity for empathy to drive a new political story. Charles, good to have you on the program. Thank you. Good to be here. What did you see that other folk didnt see that made you believe that trump could or would win this thing back in november . For me, almost half a joke. I said that it was a matter of dramatic aesthetics. If you were running the screen play of american history, who would you pick as the next president . To make it a really good story . And i almost didnt believe myself when i said that. But thats what i was thinking. Then it came true. I was kind of shocked. But what really concerned me wasnt, not a super political person, but i, like everybody else, i was following the election. And what concerned me was the levels of hatred that were coming up on both sides of the political divide. And i had never seen in my lifetime. The degree of vitriol and polarization. What do you think drove that . Gosh, i dont know. I feel like at the same time there is this rising tide of hatred, kind of underneath, maybe it is just because i am an optimist, i see people becoming more civil, more kind in their interpersonal relationships, more respectful, less judgemental. But, maybe its something about the Online Platforms and the way that information is disseminated that people gather into these kind of in groups or these kind of tribes where you like, rightwing web sites and left wing web sites. I saw despite the superficial disagreement, everybody agreed on one thing. Which is that the problem are those horrible people on the other side. A there is dehumanization going on. You read a liberal website. There are unflattering photographs of donald trump, or, paul ryan, or whoever the subject is. And then in the comments section is it about horrible these bigoted, xenophobic, misogynistic people are, if only we could defeat these people. Then of course on the right, a lot of hatred as well. And im thinking maybe this agreement that the problem is the moral and intellectual defish aed deficiency of your opponents, maybe at agreement is wrong. Maybe this dehumanization of the other. Thats what alarms me, dehumanization, the template for racism, and genocide, it is the template for war, like cant we change the political culture that we are not dehumanizing each other . I think where we may differ, maybe we dont the i will press you and see what your response is. Where we may differ that all hating if i can put it this way is created eke waqual. There are some things that are right and some things that are wrong. You can say there is hate on the left. Hate on the right. Indeed there is. Some of what mr. Trump said and did was just wrong. And if you just clearly make, if you make this argument there is people on left who are wrong. People on the right who are wrong. You dont make a distinction between what is right and wrong, thats problem atting f problem. Im not saying the policies or positions on Public Affairs are equal because theyre both doing the same thing. Demeaning women is wrong. Making racist comments about mexicans or blacks or others is wrong. Making fun of the disabled is wrong. Thats not about hate on the left. Hate on the right. Thats not an equal sum game. Im not talking about that. I am talking about. Okay, why is donald trump making those comments . Or why is within of his supporters maybe in your own family making those kind of comments . The answer, well he is just bad, is the same template as racism. Or miss oj kn it is degrading somebody into a lower category of evil. And some times you might, like i dont want to psycho analyze the guy, look what turns some body into a hateful narcissist. But if i really put myself in his shoes, and, and, imagine what would it take for me to say those things . What would have to be my experience of life . Maybe i would think, yeah, maybe there is some betrayal that happened to me when i was really little. I dont know. I dont want to theorize too much about it. But that approach of trying to understand, what is it look ike be you . Gives rise to alternatives to just fighting. Maybe, maybe you maybe you decide that fight is the only answer sometimes. But at least it opens that creative space. That, that makes other answers available. Other responses available. For example you know we are seeing a lot of, not just in america, but a lot of racism, xenophobia coming out with brexit. Around the world. Around the world. So if you say the problem is that there are just these horrible people, then okay, if thats true then you know what to do. But if it is not true, then you are operating in a dilutioelusi. If you say what is it look to be these people . Where is this coming from . Then you start to look, into maybe the way society has evolved. Maybe the way the way the middleclass has shrunk. Life has gotten hearder f ehard everybody. Wealth has polarized into the rich poor. The way the basic economy works. The system of intersparing debt that is engulfing the planet. You start to look into deeper causes that are harder to solve. To your earlier point, i am all for empathy. But i am trying to understand how it is that empathy wins, how does empathy can succeed when you are up against an arrogance that is born of elitism and makes it difficult to know where the soft spot is . Put another way, do you think donald trump is redeemable . Do you think that over the next four years, i dont ask this, this is not a joke, i am curious if you think over the next four years he can change . Scan he be redeemed . Scud could he turn out to be a decent spt . Could he see the error of his ways. Abraham lincoln started out. Never arrogant like trump, he started out on the wrong side of the slavery question. And one of our most beloved president s . Is that possible for donald trump . I think it is possible for everybody. Not going to be too hopeful about it. Sure. But, you know, the guy is at least not too highly conditioned by political orthodoxy. He is a bit of unknown quantity. You are right. He isnt that which i take some solace and hope in. He sent that. On the other hand. That skaerz cares me he is an e vessel. Anything can be poured in washington. For me, my fear was he wont be a tool of neo capitalism, but maybe a tool of neo conservative capitalism and imperialism. But i am seeing, that the politics that i have known why knoll li whole life is turning upside down. I went on cant remember, Huffington Post or salon or Something Like that. And i saw look these headlines basically saying basically criticizing trump for not listening to the cia for saying nato might have no longer be serving its purpose. Im like, what Looking Glass universe we have gone through, where the liberals are saying embrace the cia, the same organization that perspetrated weapons of mass destruction hoax, toppling government around the world through coups. Why all of a sudden . Like the world is turning upside down. And again, i saw like it was maybe a a reflection of these of this, kind of polarizing, like attack the enemy with anything available. Because we are the good guys. In a world that is turning upside down for people tonight, just days after the inauguration of donald trump, who are trying to figure out how they can reman hope freman remain hopeful if not optimistic over four years, you say what . How do you hold on to the hope . I foeel hopeful in a way normal was falling apart. What is hopelessly radical is becoming common sense, at least there is room for something totally new. You know, like i wasnt a trump support. I actually voted for bernie sanders, full disclosure here. But you know, the fact that, that even barack obama, the fact that he was africanamerican, fact that Hillary Clinton was a woman would have kind of given a sugarcoating on to the poison pill of politics as usual. Now we dont have that anymore. So leb riberals arent going to stuff slide, they would have let slide because the president is black or the president is a woman. And political normalcy is crumbling which opens the space for the inconceivable to happen. So long as well dont implode first. I digress. I digress. Charles, good to haveup here, man. Thank you for sharing your insights. Thats our show tonight. Thank you for watching. As always, keep the faith. For more information on todays show, visit tavissmiley at pbs. Org. Hi, join me next time for a conversation about the future of the u. S. Supreme court and Melissa Etheridge with a new album. Thats next time. Well see you then announcer and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers look you. Thank you. 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