Transcripts For KQEH Tavis Smiley 20141014

Contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. En Tennessee Williams is one of the most brilliant play rights. A streetcar names desire, cat on a tin roof. Tennessee williams, mad pilgrimage of the flesh makes it clear its written by john lahr, the only theater critic to win a tony award. Lahr, good to have you on this program. I was asking you, when you came on the show, whether or not it was worth dedicating devoting 12 years of your life to this . Yes, it really was. The job of a critic isnt just to look at the theater, but look after it. Tennessee wrote over 70 plays along with lyric poetry and wonderful letters. This stuff hasnt been wrangled. He said, famously, that his plays were an interior landscape of himself at the time he wrote them. All these famous plays, the ones you mentioned, were written at different times. If you chart using his letters and his diaries, if you chart where he was at any moment, you see him change as his heart opens and flowers and hardens. The plays reflect in an unconscious way, his multiple split personality and what he was struggling with. So, it becomes a kind of emotional autobiography. The plays reflect the man and the man reflects the play. Thats what i was trying to catch. Why it took so long to write is you are juggling the public man, a man on a first name basis with the world, tennessee. And a private life, a very wild private life. These very rich, complex emotional plays that help define the 20th century. How did the two parts of each other aid and abet his artistry . You mean the tortured soul. It was always a struggle with himself between selfdestruction. He was raised in a very he and his brother and sisser were witness to war between the parents and indigestible. His plays are always rethinking his family. His grandparents are his repertoire company. Hes dealing with it in different ways in the plays, really trying to reconsider his life and also express, get out of himself and represent these mad scenes he went through as a child. A way of saying tennessee is blanch . He said so himself. Hes also partial to his family. Hes also partially, very much brick, the negative, you know, that part of him wanted to create and made and live in the world and the part of him that really felt so guilty and so selfloathing. He wanted to destroy himself, which in the end, he did. You know, his play, you know, oscar wild famously said that the artistic life is a long, lonely suicide. In a way, williams life bears that thesis out. Contextualize for me his work. Over time, his work was less good. Well, tennessee set out to be great. He knew he had it in him to write great plays and he did for a long time. When he was working out of the green world, it came, he said, easy to him, sort of easy. There came a point where he was blocked. I mean, to unblock himself, he started in the mid50s to drink. He started to become that became his meaning. To the extent he started to report on his selfdestruction as his theme. He became a warrior and an exhibitionist, so to speak, of his collapse. Increasingly, at a certain point, he was devouring himself. That even is part of one last summer where they get eaten alive. Williams called that play an alagory. It was. He lost that connection. He wrote a play about it milk tray doesnt fall here anymore. His mothers milk. He tried to reconnect with that world and a hatred of himself for having, in a sense, ruined, he ruined himself, to a certain degree with drug and drink. Somebody called it the bio the pharmacology of the lost. But, you know, in the end, the well was dry. He sort of played chronicle. When you know this about him and see it explore bigraphically, the plays are good. There are at least three or four of the later plays which arent great. They dont have the shellac of his earlier plays. They are good. They are interesting. They are nothing to sniff at. I think they should be reexamined. Theres more than the initial critics found. Even the stuff that was less good was still written from a place of truth. Oh, well said. Absolutely. Its his personal truth. Its his personal life. Right. He said from the very beginning in 1938 when he started writing, he wanted to paint a picture of his heart. Not society, but it reflects society. Just of his heart. He does that. In glass he was both a narrator and character in his plays. If he steps out and, in fact does, john, write narratives that expose us to his heart and his soul and his journey, why then does his stuff, one, not only endure all these years later, but why the rest of us find ourselves able to relate to what he wrote . A good question. Im going to answer it. Think of a tooth ache. When you think of a tooth ache, you cant think. We dont have many words for pain. Pain is beyond language. What williams makes us do because we are all in pain, we are able to look at our lives, feel pain and understand it in a way that we ordinarily cant do. So, his plays are always a journey into his interior and ours. Go to his plays and i think what distinguishes it among the great play writes is that he lives, he said famously, for love i make characters. He lives within the characters deeper than the other play wrights. They are nuanced. Actors love to play in them because they are so rich in texture. They are deep, deep. Im going to put you on the spot. Three things about Tennessee Williams that the average person does notszc know. They certainly dont know the degree to which the great director that directed most of it, how important he was in the shaping and structuring of all the main plays. Okay. Williams owed him a great debt. Williams, i think the next thing, i would say, is that williams, who made a myth of his sister rose, who was had one of the first labotomys. His allegiance to her was retro specktive. At first, he didnt know what one was. He certainly was guilty of surviving in the family and but more than that, i think its fair to say he was guilty because initially, he wasnt as loyal to rose as he acted out, both in plays. He built an alter to her, in his key west house. That enactment makes me feel that he wasnt all together honest about his feelings. The third surprising thing is that he continued the public narrative is after 1961, he died in 1983. He never wrote anything first rate. Its not true. There were very good plays and some beautiful poetry that he wrote. You know, i suppose that would answer the question. The final analysis, how do you situate him among the Great American play writes . Hes the greatest. I dont like to rank them. Certainly the greatest. Unique talent. One whose narrative, whose story needed to be told and hasnt, up to now. After all, he has been dead since 1983 and 40 books written about him. His story and relationship to himself has never been brought together. The book is Tennessee Williams mad pilgrimage of the flesh written by the great john lahr. Great to have you on the program. Congratulations. Thank you. Coming up, Justin Simien, the writer and director of dear white people. Stay with us. Justin simien was a student here in Southern California when he started a twitter account called dear white people. He tackled race with insight. Black students navigating white campus environments. Now that twitter account is a movie funded by crowd sourcing. Its hailed as a satire of obama aids. We have a scene of dear white people. This is the only dining hall you can get yourself chicken. Dear white people, right . Its funny. Its funny stuff. It really is. How have we not staffed you yet . Me . On prestige . The uninspired Music Magazine . Its more than a magazine. Same for the network comedies. What gives you clubhouse kids the right to come to our dining hall . You dont live here. What are you doing . You cant eat here. Let the man got this. Who are you to throw me out . Well, i think im head of this house. So, not unlike you, i went to predominantly white campus. Obviously, im black. Wait, what . I know, i know. I went to indiana university. I was sitting in the Movie Theater one day and the trailer for this came on. Okay. I was transfixed in my seat like, oh, my. Who is Justin Simien . The first thought i had was, which ill ask you whether or not white folk get this. Clearly, its a satire. We live in a world people dont get satire. The movie going to come out and they are going to be all over you about the message and the film. Do you think people can and will get the point . I think they can and will. I mean the cool thing about the movie is we started in sun dance. Not particularly black heavy audience. Thats charitable and generous. Thats where we began. I had the pleasure of seeing the film in atlanta. I screened it in new york with a half and half audience. I screened all over the place with different racial make ups. They show up and sell out in record time. They stay and want to talk about it and connection with the characters. I think part is because the movie has politics on the mind. At the heart, it is a story about identity. Its a part of the human condition. We struggle with who we are versus how we are perceived. What is cool is to see people that dont look like the characters in the movie identify with their lives and struggles. They are able to digest some of the other stuff. We started on the internet, a twitter account and trailer. You know, i had my fair share of diving and learning about the Different Things people feel about the title and the things the film talks about. To your point about identity. Are black people in search of or not appreciative of their identity . Is it a problem we have . Is it a problem white folk have respecting our identity or both . I think its both. Being a person of color, you are bombarded by and bobbing and weaving around other peoples impression of you. Its so limited. Theres so few images of us out there. The images out there, even the ones that are positive, dont reflect the complexity of what we are. That is unique to people of color. I hate the word minority. It doesnt work in california. People who are not reflected in the mainstream of culture. We are constantly having to we are constantly Walking Around the world around their assumptions. That takes a toll in how we see ourselves. One of the most amazing words that came out, it came from a white actress. You know, as much as this is a movie about identity itself, its about potential. Identity is limiting. Black folk harden in identities because we have to. We have to be aware of the kind of black person we are. At a certain point, we have to shed that identity and be who we are supposed to be. I take your point. Identity can be limiting. Yeah. But, at the same time, it can be liberating. Once you come into the fullness of what your identity is, it liberates you. Thats why i love these stories. My film has four characters. We have characters at the beginning of that journey. Lionel has no idea what his identity is and he finds it and finds a home in it. We have characters living in the same identity too long. Its time to grow and stretch and try on a new identity in life. You are right, it cuts both ways. I never wanted to make a movie that gives a hard and fast answer. How do you sum up the four characters, people you know or created . They are a combination of the first draft was way too many characters. I didnt know how to write this kind of movie when i started in 2006. A lot of them came out of my sub conscience. I paired it down to the ones i felt were interesting and opposed in the right ways and made for the best stories. Lionel and sam were part of the movie. Having this character with no identity and a character that has outgrown their identity. That was the anchor for me. The other two are combinations of characters that for budget and time have to be cut and condensed. I represent the top of the conversation, you said a bit about it. This started eight years ago. Tell me how it got to being a film . I was having a conversation with a black union, with my other friend. All five of yall . All three of us hanging out. We were having the kind of conversation you would have in college. These are friends because we are black or do we like everyone here . Is that why we are hanging out . We got into a conversation about how we toggle between black and white friends and why dont they mix more and how do we answer the phone when this person calls versus that person. This conversation went on for hours. Why isnt there a movie about this. This is my black experience. This is the experience of my friends. In 2006, there was a draught in terms of black films. I wasnt identity fying with th blacks in the cinema. The things that happened before my time. I watched as a film student. I wish that was part of the conversation. Thats how it began. I started a screen play called 2 . 2 black population on the college and kept working it through the years. At a certain point, a radio show of dear white people. To me, that was a better title. The movie became dear white people to test the jokes out on the world. Eventually, when the script got to a place where i wanted other people to read it, we made the trailer with just my friends and actors we found to put forth the vision of the film. When it went viral, that began the journey of full financing to get the film made. Who came to your rescue . Our producer. She was one of the first people to read it. She watched us unmask this following for a movie that hadnt been made yet. We were touring the studios to get it made. Finally, one day she was like lets do this. This is obviously got a following. It could be a thing. Lets go for it. She took a chance on it. What is your view . We wouldnt have got it without social media. Theres no traditional way to get this made. When i saw do the right thing, spike said theres no way a studio would ever make this movie, in this day and age, which is crazy. Its a masterpiece. Theres no version of a process where a studio executive sees a movie like this, loves it and makes it. That doesnt happen anymore. Without social media and proving we had an audience and going around the sort of not waiting to go through the gate, but around the gate. That was the only way to get the project made. I dont know. I dont know. Im anxious to know. Me, too. Do the right thing. The school days cover these topics. What do you want to do . This is going to put you out there. What is the big game plan . I want to make movies and tell stories about the human condition. I want to make films where we entertain you and delight you, but i want you to need to have a conversation in the lobby after every single movie i make. The role of art is to hold the mirror up to culture. We may not like what we see. Thats the business im in. This is a business. You have to make money. I want to make movie that is matter, that people are talking about. The title is dear white people. It could be subtitled, dear black people. Theres a message for both. You have to be true to yourself. It doesnt matter what your identity is or what its supposed to be or what people think you are. Tough be true to your authentic self. Its true for all people. Seeing the movie through a black lens because i made it through a black lens. At the core, its a story about identity. Companion comes with it. Tell you about the companion text. This book is about me ripping up a lot of ideas in the movie. Im going for it, you know . Talk about why i think reality tv is a new black face and why kanye west did this and did that. Itis sort of like its me being ridiculous and ripping on the themes of the movie. Its beautifully illustrated by a guy. Its got lots of personality quizzes in it. Its a fun book. Im proud of it. I can guarantee, when you see it, you will be talking. You may be stuck in your seat with 1,000 questions running through your head. I hope you see it with others because you will certainly have commentary. Sun dance and its finally a film after eight years of working on it. Justin simien is the writer, producer and all that stuff. Its called dear white people. A guide to interracial hormny. This is the first time we have heard the name Justin Simien, but it wont be the last. Congratulations. Its a pleasure. The pleasure is mine. Thanks for watching. As always, keep safe. For more information on todays show, visit tavis smiley at pbs. Org. Im tavis smiley. Join me next time for a conversation with actress cicely tyson. Thats next time. See you then. By contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Eme music by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Daniel mansergh imagemakers is made possible by a grant from celebrating the vitality and power of the moving image. And by the