Transcripts For KQED PBS NewsHour 20140224

Journalists look into one california towns decrepit housing. The poets with them are telling their own version of that story, in verse. Im bringing the peoples perspective. See, when you hear our poem, it is like you are listening to the people who are actually living in it. Woodruff those are just some of the stories were covering on tonights pbs newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by and by the alfred p. Sloan foundation. Supporting science, technology, and improved Economic Performance and Financial Literacy in the 21st century. And with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. And. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Ifill the interim leaders in ukraine issued a warrant today for ousted president Viktor Yanukovych, for the killings of protesters. Yanukovych fled kiev over the weekend for the eastern, pro russian half of the country. We have a report from james mates of independent television news. Reporter the city of sevastopol is in ukraine but as its now daily demonstrations show, the flag its people show allegiance to is the russian one. Its here the fugitive former president yanukovych is now believed to have sought sanctuary at a Russian Naval base. If true, russias president putin is unlikely ever to hand him over. Still, celebrating the end of his sochi olympic party, his Prime Minister today made russias anger at whats happened abundantly clear. Some of our western partners, he said, think theres a legitimate government there. Its strange to call a government legitimate when its the result of an armed uprising. The closest the ukrainians may now get to yanukovych is the treasure trove of documents he left behind. Many dumped in a river now being meticulously dried and sorted. Damning evidence for a trial that will probably never happen. We have part of the financial documents revealing the whole system of the Money Laundering that was established here to supply yanukovychs regime with the money and to provide the money for construction of these whole luxury palaces. Reporter more worrying as the continued lack of any visible authority in the capital kiev. Any group with a grievance now taking to the streets demanding they get what they want. This is what happens when you go several days without the Proper Police forces. Here you have a group of football supporters trying to force their way into parliament demanding the release of one of their own from jail. Over here the socalled self defense forces, a ragtag army with clubs and improvised helmets waiting to secure parliament, not really knowing who gives them orders. Two politicians promised an immediate vote in parliament and within half an hour two men convicted of murder under the old regime were ordered to be freed. The euphoria of revolution can wane very quickly. What comes next is not always an improvement. Ifill russias foreign minister sharply criticized the turn of events in ukraine. 35 billion dollars over the next two years. The demonstrators erected barricades of trash and other debris across major thoroughfares, bringing traffic to a halt. But there were no reports of violence. There have been nationwide protests since february 12. And at least 11 deaths. Ifill the interim Prime Minister of egypt has announced the resignation of his cabinet. It could pave the way for military chief Abdel Fattah Al sisi to run for president. The announcement came amid strikes by public transport workers and garbage collectors. Egypt has seen political turmoil since islamist president Mohamed Morsi was ousted by the military last july. A new antigay law in uganda took effect today, imposing sentences of up to life in prison for engaging in homosexual relations. President Yoweri Museveni signed the measure into law in kampala. He said its needed because the west is promoting homosexuality in africa. Has shown that you can be homosexual purely by nature. Society can do something about it, to discourage the trend. That is why i have agreed to sign the bill. Ifill homosexuality is already illegal in uganda. Gay activists have vowed to challenge this new law in court. And, president obama has warned the statute will harm relations with the u. S. Ifill the pentagon served notice today that it wants to downsize the u. S. Army, to the smallest its been in 74 years. Defense secretary chuck hagel proposed reducing active duty levels by roughly 80,000 and cutting several major weapons systems. Well explore the proposal in detail, later in the program. The longest serving member of congress, ever, is calling it a career. Michigan Democrat John dingell has announced he wont run for reelection. During 57 years in the house, he became a powerful dealmaker and committee chair, and helped pass everything from the endangered species act to medicare to the Affordable Care act. But at 87, he said today hes ready to step down. I know when the time comes whether i can live up to my own personal standards as a member of congress. This is the last that i can probably give to my people. Ifill dingell was first elected in 1955, to the seat his father had held since 1933. The elder dingell died in office. Pope francis has announced the first Major Overhaul of the vatican bureaucracy in 25 years. He unveiled plans today for a new secretariat to control economic, administrative, personnel and procurement policies. Francis was elected pope, pledging sweeping reforms. On wall street today, the Dow Jones Industrial average gained nearly 104 points to close at 16,207. The nasdaq rose 29 points to close just short of 4,293. One of the comedy stars of the 70s and 80s, harold ramis, died today at his chicagoarea home. He helped write and starred in ghostbusters, cowrote and directed caddyshack and also cowrote animal house. Ramis had battled an autoimmune disease for four years. He was 69 years old. Still to come on the newshour the power vacuum in ukraine; capturing one of the worlds most notorious drug kingpins; the pentagons plan to shrink the military; a look at egypts revolution, captured in an oscarnominated documentary; plus, the poetry of investigative reporting. Woodruff the scene in the heart of ukraines capital has shifted from chaos and carnage to mourning. With questions of whats next for the country. We begin with this report from matt frei of independent television news. Reporter kiev is back in business, the business of flowers and grief. The city center around maidan is a shrine amongst barricades that became scenes of trenched warfare from a different era. And it is the custom of this the vestiges of normality have returned. Here a supermarket at the barricades has opened its doors again. The metro is operating again, if mainly in the service of pilgrimage to the place where dozens of mostly unarmed protesters were picked off by sniper rifles and kalashnikovs only four days ago. Its astonishing how quickly a crime scene has been transformed into a shrine, guarded by the custodians of the revolution. Haunted by the images and sounds that have barely had time to become memories. Its the down payment in blood that has made this revolution so different to the orange one in 2004. It demands a more solemn level of respect and revenge. This is antony, a neurosurgeon and his fiveyearold daughter and his pregnant musician wife. Shes expecting in a fortnight. Reporter what should happen to president yanukovych . I think that for ukrainians its not enough to find him and to judge him. I think that and i believe and i see that most of us want him dead. Reporter want him dead . Yeah because a man who do this, those horrible things, he does not leave. He must die for him. It is better for him. Its a disaster really. Ive been here from the first day of my maidan. Reporter alessia owns a travel company and summed up whats really at stake here. Whats the most important thing that needs to change . The most important thing . It has already changed. Its in the mind of people. Its here. Its inside. We have to make the change, we have to start from ourselves. We dont have to look for politicians or for someone else to save our country. We have to start from ourselves. Reporter but someone does need to run the country, and the leaders from the last revolution are no longer as appealing as they once were. So the man without a face standing guard outside the central bank summed up a very common refrain. Ukraine needs completely new faces, he told me. No tymoshenko. No poroshenko. No asinine. No klitschko. None of them. A blank slate, a power vacuum, and according to the central bank, a whole of 35 billion euros just to cover the next two years. The revolution may be over but theres no shortage of demons. Woodruff we explore whats next for the country with steven pifer, former u. S. Ambassador to ukraine from 1998 to 2000. Hes now with the brookings institution. And adrian karatnycky, a senior fellow at the atlantic council. Welcome to the program, back to the program. Adrian karatnycky, let me begin with you. How stable is the situation right now in ukraine . What do you hear. I think that if a government takes shape and assume that there is some wisdom in the shaping of the government that it is regionally inclusive. That it is not just packed with the old but there is some room for competent people. If they hear the voices of the square in the selection of the personnel tomorrow, that can help considerably to move the country towards stability. But at the moment, the people who went out into the square have questions about their leaders. They realize theres a lot of horse trading going on and people are fighting for poses. Theyre noting lieuing for the greater good. The public is expecting these leaders to do Something Different for the first time in the 23 years of ukraines history. Woodruff it sounds unsettled. What are you hearing. The same thing. There are a lot of challenges that the new governments going to face. First of all, can it be inclusive in a way that makes particularly those people Eastern Ukraine which is yanukovychs power base feel they have some stake in the government that the governments listening to them. You have a number of opposition leaders that voluntary grouped together fairly well. Tymochenko is repoliced from prison. Ask they continue to Work Together. When you have the pressure of a president ial election and some of those people may find themselves working against one another in that election. Can they begin to do things and Work Together in fairly difficult circumstances. Woodruff we saw those russian flags in the eastern and southern crimean, the southern part of the country. I think a lot of people are questioning can the country hold together. How strong is the pro russian sentiment. I think you have to understand, this is a very unique place. Its a place where many of the people retired from the soviet military many of them ethnic russians, crimea is the only place, there are russian speaking majorities in Eastern Ukraine but they have different conscious must. The black sea is there. Its basically a russian town. So i dont think this is a particularly disturbing thing to see. Woodruff you would expect. I think there is a fear of the values and the politics of the central and west ukraines partly because the last few years mr. Yanukovych used this as a wedge issue. Cultural politics is not just something between red states and blue states, its also on a massive scale in ukraine and a dangerous scale as opposed to the system. Woodruff is there any question yanukovych is out of the picture now. All the ports have him hiding somewhere in crimea. Hes been moving around since he disappeared on friday in Eastern Ukraine. One of the reports saying he actually tried to leave to depart to russia and Border Guards would not let him leave. The fact hes been hiding and really running for the last few days hes pretty much become irrelevant to whats going on in re. Hes discredited himself. Woodruff what are the russians. We heard the critical comments from the russian Prime Minister saying this isnt a legitimate government. What should one expect from the russians . Well, i think that the u. S. And the International Community and especially europe should work very closely to get a consensus not just among the west but of the entire International Community to recognize the transition has occurred in the ukraine and this is a legitimate government. That would box the russians in. I think im very worried that if there are people sort of sitting on the fence. That this may encourage the russians to be a little more aggressive in trying to question the legitimacy. It would open questions and raise the political temperature and the geo political temperature in europe. And you can make the case, you should be able to make the case that ukraine that has a growing relationship with europe still has good relations with russia. And ukraine has compelling reason to have good relations with russia should not be a threat. Thats one reason why prick spent a lot of time speaking with president putin. They are trying to get russia to be part of the solution to the problem but im not sure were going to be able to change mr. Putin worlds view. He still sees whats happening over the last five days as a set back for his interpretation of russian interests. Woodruff we dont know yet what that means or what it could mean. We do know hes cutting off assistance at the moment and its not flowing. But russia could be asked to be part of a deal with an International Consortium to help save the ukrainian economy. If they were willing to continue with their Assistance Program that they promised which was quite general generous. Woodruff are leaders emerging internally in ukraine . You heard the ordinary folks saying tymoshenko, they dont like any of the folks who have been in power. I think there are leaders that have emerged. But the question is how much credibility are they going to have with them on the street. Where theres a certain i think skepticism of all politicians, and so theres a look to say you need to prove to us that youre different. That youre not going to repeat the old habits of closed nontransparent politics but conducted just among them, youre not going to engage in the sort of corrupt behavior epitomized by the relations coming out of the yanukovych residence. You need money to win an selection in ukraine. Reporter legitimate or corrupted. For my regime, its a very expensive proposition. Even law jut mother politicians need a lot of barksz who may have origins for their capital. But the problem is theres not enough time between now and may for the them to have new charismatic leaders to emerge. There are civic activists out there for three months putting their bodies on the line, they will probably get involved in the political process. And the parliamentary election i think well see new Political Forces in the parliament and i think well have some sort of gadfly movement that may keep the rest of the elite. And Ukraine Parliament is a parliament of billionaires and multimillionaires. Its corrupt. As soon as they get a policy going the better for ukraine. Woodruff what are you looking for. They need a government that begins to get things work that gives them a sense of calf dense and restoration of normalcy. I also hope the government appears inclusive. Maybe doesnt have to include members of regions in the cabinet but some people can say yes we speak for the interest of eastern and southern ukraine. Again so that part of ukraine where we worry about possible tendencies which should not be overstated. We want them to feel that yes this government is going to be listening to their concerns and respond to their concerns. And theyre going to have to deal with some very difficult financial challenges with some big deals coming quit and need outside help for that. Woodruff well leave it there but continue to watch this story. Stench pifer and adrian karatnycky, we thank you. Thank you. Ifill the arrest over the weekend of the head of one of the worlds most sophisticated narcotics networks, proved a major victory for both u. S. And mexican law enforcement. Now both sides want to prosecute him. Jeffrey brown has the story. Brown Mexican Marines led Joaquin El Chapo guzman away in handcuffs on saturday. Thus ending a 13year hunt for one of the worlds most dangerous men. translated this arrest is the product of an operation thats been worked on for several months in coordination with all federal Government Agencies brown only two days earlier, guzman was surrounded by troops at his exwifes home in the western city of culiacan, capital of the mexican state of sinaloa. He got away, through a trap door under the bathtub, and managed to escape through a network of tunnels and the citys sewer system. U. S. Drug agents and mexican troops, acting on wiretaps and other information, pursued him 135 miles south, to this luxury condominium in the seaside resort of mazatlan. There, just before dawn saturday, they stormed into guzmans room and captured him without firing a shot. In washington today, White House Press secretary jay carney praised the joint effort. This is a significant achievement in our shared fight against transnational organized crime, violence, and Drug Trafficking. The u. S. And mexico have a Strong Security partnership and we will continue to support mexico in its efforts to ensure that cartel leaders are put out of business. Brown guzman was formally charged sunday with Drug Trafficking in mexico. He faces indictments in the u. S. As well, and federal prosecutors in new york and chicago already are asking for his extradition. Its not the first time behind bars for the 56yearold guzman, nicknamed el chapo, or shorty, because hes only five feet six inches tall. In 2001, he escaped from a mexican prison before he was halfway through a 20year sentence for Drug Trafficking and murder. Over the years he built the Sinaloa Cartel into mexicos most powerful drug operation, wiping out rivals in a reign of brutality that killed tens of thousands of people. In mexico city, word of his capture brought both hope and skepticism. translated i think that its something very good. I think its a excellent achievement from this government that is giving us results. I think not just for mexico but for many countries its an important arrest. translated its very difficult, the cartel is quite organized and has a presence in many states in the country, so its difficult to say that just with the capture of el chapo the cartel will fall apart. Brown guzman joins miguel angel trevino, who was head of the zetas, a rival cartel, and was arrested last summer. Those are major gets for president enrique pena nieto, who had said hed rebalance the allout war against cartels with a new emphasis on the economy and education. Brown but what does this get mean for the drug trade . We turn to alejandro hope, formerly a manager at mexicos National Intelligence agency and now a private security analyst. He joins us from mexico city. And sam quinones, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times and author of several books on mexico was this a surprise that he was captured without a shot being fired, and how were mexican and u. S. Forces able to do that . What do we know . Well, i mean this is the end result of a long process of accumulation of intelligence about guelzo mom and about the environment where he worked and where he lived. This is not the first major arrests happened without shots being fired. That happened also under the administration of president calderon. It was surprising that el chapo didnt put up much more of a fight but it does prove there are far more capacities now than when this whole process started seven, eight years ago. Brown sam quinones tell us a little bit more about guzman himself, his history, his reputation, his importance. I think the historian, the story of the sinaloaians in Drug Trafficking is one of the most fascinating in all of the history of organizized crime. These are guide who started out in the country of small hillside mountain county in the state of sinaloa. From there, they used machismo violence in the rein that ran the country. Sinaloaians grew to control the border between the United States and mexico. So they controlled areas as far away as juarez and tijuana and the arizona border. Chapo guzman grew up in this poor community. I came violent and i think also a fair amount of expertise that he developed in logistics, in organizational capacity began to expand this cartel until he kind of, hes kind of basically rubbed out the other two, the Juarez Cartel is not what it once was. The Tijuana Cartel especially has disintegrated. Hes now left to be the lone guy along much of the border. Thats why its so big. I started as a hill billy basically. All of them started as hill billies most of them and now hes the most wanted guy in the United States as well as in mexico. Brown let me ask alejandro hope, how important is this in mexico. And in this long fight that mexicos had against the cartels. Where did this fit in and what does it tell us about where that fight is right now . Well i think this is very important both ethically, strategically and politically. Ethically because guzman was, el chapo faced mexico, he faced lawmakers for years. He successfully waged war in two major cities. He was mostly unimpeded. Its an Important Message that this guy was brought to justice. Secondly, strategically because this is pushing, this accelerated an ongoing concession from largescale Drug Trafficking organization to small gangs, more local in scope but in activities iie involved in things like extortion, kidnapping, theft. So this is in some ways, this is the end of an era. Chapo was one of a dying breed of mexican gangsters as mostly smugglers. And this certainly changes the border of mexicans around the world. Politically its important because nieto can send two Important Messages. One its effective against the fight of a large scale mafias and secondly, they can put to rest the rumors that had been going on for quite sometime that the new administration would try to accommodate the cartels and would try to exchange peace for tolerance. I think that should put that to rest. Brown so sam quinones, the big question is what does his capture mean for the flow of drugs in the United States and elsewhere . We heard that u. S. Officials want to extradite guzman himself. But what does his capture mean. Might it impede the flow . Might it have any impact at all. I suspect it will probably have some significance impact for a while. You know, i was asked earlier, is this an important thing and are there people to replace him. Yes, to those questions. There are people to replace him and still this is a very very important coup. I agree with al has not has said. There is the idea that this guy was capitol of the poster child for mexican impunity. But also these cartels very often, the guy who ran these car pels had a bureaucracy in some sense. They are guys who combined certain capacities. First of all of course wonton murder the ability to kill at the drop of a hat number one. But also they involved, they embodied great organizational capacity and great logistical capacity. This guy was moving tons of drugs across a wellarmed border, using criminals and other folks, rag tag army kind of folks. That is not easy to do. And so if hes taken down, i think we can suspect that there probably are not a whole lot of other people there to have the same capacity or charisma that he does. And so that may lead to fracturing. I think whats happening in the cartels nowadays they are fracturing. There were a few large ones and they were totally fracturing and this is one more step towards that. Brown sam quinones if you could in the last 30 seconds do you expect him to be extradited to the u. S. Or be tried in mexico. Our federal prison system is becoming a depository for numerous legendary mexican, i suspect he will be right there pretty soon. Brown sam quince yoans, alejandro hope, thank you very much. Ifill now, striking the balance between National Security and budget reality. Ifill defense secretary chuck hagel laid out plans this afternoon to cut troops and close bases, reshaping the nations military after more than a decade of war. We are repositioning to focus on the strategic challenges and opportunities that will define our future new technologies, new centers of power and a world that is growing more volatile, more unpredictable and in some instances more threatening to the United States. Ifill a key part of that repositioning shrinking the army from 522,000 activeduty soldiers to between 440450,000 the fewest since world war two. The Army National guard would be reduced as well, but hagel said it can be done without compromising national defense. Ifill the budget also calls for eliminating the venerable a 10 warthog aircraft, used for Close Air Support of ground troops, and for replacing the iconic u. 2. Spyplane with a force of global hawk drones. Among the other recommendations hagel also proposes freezing salaries of generals and admirals. And limiting pay raises for military personnel to one percent. He said delaying such decisions actually hurts morale. It needs to be done once so that our men and women and their families in uniform, those who have served and those who are thinking about serving dont constantly live under this cloud of uncertainty and threat, of well, what are they going to do next year . Are they going to take this out next year . I dont want that. We cant have that. Ifill the pentagon Budget Proposal goes to Congress Next week. Ifill todays announcement was just the first salvo in what is likely to be a prolonged battle about policy and priorities. Here to weigh those choices, are Thomas Donnelly, a defense and security analyst at the American Enterprise institute. And gordon adams Top White House budget official for National Security during the clinton administration. He now teaches at american university. Gordon adams, how significant are chuck hagels proposal today and how necessary are they. I think they are certainly necessary. I call this 50 towards reality. They have recognized that the budget is not going to grow the way they projected it would last year when they looked at the future. This year theyre saying well well come down a bit, but its only 50 towards the reality because they still arent quite prepared to budget at the level thats in the budget control as of august 20, 11. I think thats the best theyre likely to do. So in a sense its 50 towards the goal but theyre not quite at the goal line yet in realistic budgeting terms. Ifill are they cutting too deeply, thomas. Gordons quite right about the numbers. They matched the numbers that were in the budget with the patty murray budget deal for this year but they bumped the numbers up for the subsequent years above levels indicated in the budget control legislation. So theyve got about 120 billion dollars more to go to reach that level. Ifill for people who dont follow the budget how necessary is it and how deep is it. Its deep. Its necessary budgetarily but its a huge mistake strategically and for the help of the u. S. Military services. Ifill okay. He just threw that in the. Strategically why. Ill tell you something, bernard who was one of the great strategickists in the 1950s and 60s quote a book in which he has a chap thursday called strategic wears a dollar sign. The reality is strategy and money are always related. They always have been, they always have been. Were coming down right now in the Defense Budget at about a pace like other drawdowns that weve done after korea, after vietnam, at the end of the cold war. Weve always come down around 30 in constant dollars from the top of spending to the way we reached the bottom. And were at the shallow end of that right now. Ifill Thomas Donnelly what does this strategy tell us after ten years of war and whether were going to continue to draw down. The money quote from secretary hagel was that we are sizing the forest for a nonwar strategy essentially. For the United States and for any global power two has always been the right number. Nobody wants to use all the force theyve got in a single contingency, particularly for global power les Something Else happens. We have essentially a step backward from a traditional measure of what used to be a great power. Ifill some of the things that will get a lot of attention which are not necessarily the biggest ticket items involve things like taking away the subsidy for call sayys and changing military benefits. Is that separate in your mind or are you thinking of closing bases and hardware. All those things that will immediately save that much money is most politically advantageous as we saw from the adjustment of healthcare copays and the budget deal. Thats going to mobilize the veterans groups to take to the streets. Not going to save that much money and its not going to focus on these larger strategic sized questions. Ifill secretary hagel said there may be sequestration down. Ill tell you something, gwen. I think realistically the pentagon needs to be planning is the reality of the levels in the budget control act. Because i think thats the best theyre going to do in the pented gun over the next five years. Instead of doing that it does not do that. Instead of doing that what the secretary did was say lets assume weve got 115 billion dollars more over the next five years then the budget control could provide. What that does for the planning process in the pentagon is mislead them. Because if theyre only going to get at budget control levels but they start planning programs and hardware choices at a higher level of spending we have to in the next two or three years and theyll suddenly discover theyve got to cut things out into the plan. They baked it in now they got to bake it out. Ifill is it politically possible cutting even more deeply. The budget control at that level is about the best they could do, not the worse. Predicting what the Defense Budget will be five years from now is always a recipe for tears. Who knows whether the politics will change. But gordons right. I mean if the budget control act is the ceiling, then theyve got more homework to do. The question i would ask is not about inputs about what we pay but what we get back in terms of security and that will go down too. Ifill thats the question. If we shift our focus from aircraft carriers and outdated some people say airplanes and we chip into Cyber Operation special ops is that the reality. It comes to a point that tom made earlier when he said a planning scenario usually involves two big wars. The reality is i dont think thats the real world that were going into. As weve seen, you know, setting aside iraq which was a war of choice not a war that we were thrown into, the reality is 23 were going to be using forces, were going to be using them in smaller packages, smaller combats, different types of support training operations, things that you can in fact, if you do it right, do well. The problem that they have is they got to point the spear back off this issue. Theyre buying a lot of back office in this budget and in the past budgets which is the administration and the pentagon. If they want to be able the combat point they have to tackle that back office more seriously than they have. Ifill the secretary of defense said today it was a modest and necessary serious of proposals but youve been through this before. What is your sense based on what these kinds of debates weve seen unfold especially talking about shrinking rather than adding how realistically it is hopefully. If they get the personnel measures through ill buy gordon a six pack. And ill accept. Thats not going to happen. I agree with tom on that. The personnel staff is the third rail of Defense Budgeting. You dont go in there lightly and you go in well armed. Brian murray said military retirees under 62 are working full time ought to get a pension cola 1 less than the cost of the Consumer Price index. Within six weeks, that was deader than a door dmail because the groups came up on the net and people said we werent work on that. Its dead ill how about the hardware. Hardwares the easiest thing. Theyre not really cutting that much. Its great air plains but its been around really long times. Its not that much thats new left to cut. So its very difficult to really get the Dollar Savings that theyre looking for. The big Dollar Savings come from the cuts. Thats absolutely right. Well go down in procurement because we always do in a draw down. Theres not a lot there you can find to take out. Ifill the battle begins at the budget. In the first stage. Ifill gordon adams, Thomas Donnelly, thank you very much. Thank you. Woodruff the resignation of the cabinet from egypts interim government today was the latest turn in the tumultuous three years since the downfall of Hosni Mubarak. Two egyptianamerican filmmakers charted much of that journey. Chief Foreign Affairs correspondent Margaret Warner sat down with them recently. Reporter the oscar nominated documentary the square tracks two andahalf years of tumult in egypt from Hosni Mubarak to the 2012 end of the military rule and the 2013 removal of elected Muslim Brotherhood president Mohamed Morsi. The film which cant we shown publicly in egypt is about six characters who met in tahrir square. Especially a young revolutionary and a father of four. We sat down with director jaw hibit noujaim and producer in washington. Jaw jehane noujaim, thank you. When this started in 2011 what did you see that made you rush and start filming. It was a magical moment and this is why i make films because i see people that inspire me, surprise me, take me to a place i never been before and i want to share them with the world immediately. We grew up in an egypt where people were afraid to talk about how they felt about politics for fear of repercussion. Here you have men, women, people of all different classes talking about and sharing dreams of the future for the very first time. What attracted you to your main characters. When i went down originally, i went down actually as a skeptic. But when you meet people like akmed who lived all their lives they felt their story was written for them. They had no sense of empowerment, they had no sense of authorship for the future. To feel that for the first time, they could pen that future, they could have the country of their dreams was an unbelievable feeling. When youre making a film like this, you dont know whats going to pan out. So their actions actually in the event is what ended up making them the characters. So it was the main scene in the film where the brotherhood did not participate and he went against brotherhood orders. Reporter he said im staying here. He said im staying here. That moment made him much more compelling as a character because he became someone who was conflicted between two sides. I have to say at the end of the movie i was left with a sadness because the characters got on this endless loop of unity and solidarity and expectation and they would topple the ruler only to make room for the next despot and they would be angry and say were going back to the streets but it didnt really get better. I actually am left with the feeling of optimism and ill tell you why. Even though were in this very dark time in error just a ed people are being addressed and worst time for journalists. People on the ground and all the characters would say we have to go through these mistakes. We have to go through the Muslim Brotherhood for example and the pendulum has swung completely to the other direction now towards the military, right. And ultimately i feel and i hope and this is what our characters feel, are that well get to a point where well be able to have a healthy country. I mean, i feel like its the Civil Rights Movement of our time. And our characters are still on the front lines struggling for it. We and the characters all have to kind of free ourselves from the fairy tale story avenue change that in 18 days people can go down for the first time in their lives and democracy is going to flourish. We suffered from a lot of problems people around the world are trapped in. This kind of story has changed which were told which is more like change is greatest hits where we see the highlights of change in our history. So we see gandhi invading india and we see mandela ending apartheid and we see Martin Luther king saying i have a dream but we dont want to spend 20 years like mandela. People dpoaptd want to go back to the old story of egypt. Reporter doesnt success pea pend on this generation of revolutionaries being willing to go the next step and do that hard good work of political parties, running for office. This is a time when we didnt have a judiciary, we didnt have a freedom of press, we didnt have these pillars of democracy. Its not the pillar box. People felt the only way of reaching people was the streets. Thats where they felt their role was at that time. For us as film makers, the climax happens in the first two minutes. The dictator fell. Where are you going to go from there you know. So i think that there is a lot of activity happening in egypt. It may not all be manifesting itself into the political continuance but there are aspects helping shape the future. Jehane and karim thank you so much. Thank you for having us. Woodruff margaret also asked the filmmakers about a next chapter for the characters in the documentary, and you can see that extended interview on our homepage. Ifill finally tonight, a story about storytelling. Our colleagues at k. Q. E. D. In San Francisco are the television leg of an unusual reporting partnership that includes the San Francisco chronicle, the center for investigative reporting and the residents of a Public Housing project in richmond, california. Jeffrey brown looks at what they produced. Brown in many ways, it was a traditional hard hitting news investigation. It took months of digging, combing through stacks of documents and interviewing sources, for the center for investigative reportings Amy Julia Harris and her colleagues to flesh out myriad problems at the Richmond Housing authority. But this investigation had a twist. One that offered a different way of reporting the news, and describing whats going on, through poetry. This is where rodents and roaches are like family cause we share the same meals. We feel 30 below air from cracked windows. No heat for richmond wind blows. Brown deandre evans, will hartfield and donte clark, all in their early 20s, grew up in richmond. Last fall, they joined cirs harris as she interviewed residents and documented Living Conditions at two dilapidated Public Housing projects. What they heard and saw, the cockroaches, mold and other squalor, inspired the three to write a poem called this is home. I see barren hallways broken cameras uninvited guests theres no service here as if a sea of people were cast away on an island to fend for themselves the weather outside is frightening reporter its all part of a new effort called the off page project. A collaboration between c. I. R. , a nonprofit, nonpartisan journalism organization, and the San Francisco based youth speaks which promotes writing and education and hosts a yearly poetry slam competition for young people. Jose vadi directs the off page project. Its trying to find new ways to tell Investigative Journalism in a new light, in a new form of storytelling. And wanted to reach a younger audience and have a conversation centered around them and some issues that are affecting their lives and their day to day. Brown whos it for . I mean is it for the journalists or for the young poets . I think its for both you know . Journalists and young people alike are kind of able to find a Common Ground through a platform like off page. Brown vadi himself bridges the two worlds. Hes a twotime National Poetry slam champion and a playwright, who now has a desk in a newsroom. There was that initial hesitation of you know, theres this poet coming into a newsroom, dealing with some hardcore investigations, is this poet going to come in here and wear a beret and just you know write couplets all day . I think that was a fear, but i think when they realized that myself, i come from a background where a lot of my art is informed by everything that goes on around, you know my daily life and what i read in the paper and what i see on the streets. Brown the Richmond Housing story is actually the fifth journalism poetry collaboration for off page. Previous investigations looked at sexual abuse of female farm workers. Brown and bankruptcy problems in stockton, california where teens were given access to cir reports on the citys financial mismanagement. The murder rate is a murder rate in here. In in reporting the richmond story, c. I. R. s Amy Julia Harris says the perspective of the young poets brought something extra to her journalism. When i found out i was going to be working with poets, i had no idea how that was going to work. I took the poets in to talk to people that id been talking to, and they were asking very poignant questions and said, you know, how are you able to live like this, and were asking really good questions that kind of helped inform my reporting. The poets did an amazing job of just capturing the sentiment of residents, and kind of contextualizing it, and broader issues of neglect. Brown editors at the San Francisco chronicle seem to agree in addition to running harris article in the paper, theyve posted a link to a video of the poets performing their work. Ground by a squad, not by surgeon or disease but a room that a wheelchair wasnt made for. For their part they say they learned from the experience. You can use news as a way to connect everybody to whats going o you all live in the same community but y you can use news as a way to connect everybody to whats really going on. You all live in the same community, but you dont know whats going on in that house next door to you. Brown how does this connect to your poetry . Your own writing . Im bringing the peoples perspective. See when you hear our poem it is like you are listening to the people who are actually living in it. Its one thing to hear someone talking about it, its another thing to hear someone living it brown the three are now working with jose vadi to turn their poem into a theatrical production which they plan to perform next month in San Francisco. And they say theyre hopeful the investigation they were part of will lead to changes in richmonds Public Housing projects. A sentiment donte clark wrote about in the final verse of this is home. Gotta protest, raid the government, shake their pockets and make them fix these pro jects, huh . . Where do we go next . Cause left is cemetery. But until tomorrow before my thoughts will manifest kingdom and we feast in abundance of wealth well break bread, share what left over scraps we have and find communion in our struggle this is tomorrow ifill the story on the Richmond Housing investigation aired friday on k. Q. E. D. San francisco. And online, you can watch the poets perform this is home. The entire k. Q. E. D. c. I. R. Report is posted on art beat. Woodruff again, the major developments of the day. Ukraines interim leaders launched a manhunt for former president Viktor Yanukovych for the killings of protesters. The pentagon served notice that it wants to downsize the u. S. Army, to the smallest its been since just before world war two. Ifill on the newshour online right now, j. K. Rowling got the idea for harry potter while on a train. Countless westerns, mysteries and hitchcock plots are inspired by rail travel. And now amtrak is catching on by offering writers a chance to get on board with a new residency program, it gives them a seat and a Creative Space to write their Great American novel while traveling across the country. Read about the project, on the rundown. All that and more is on our web site, newshour. Pbs. Org. And thats the newshour for tonight. On tuesday, well look at the a 10 warthog, a military aircraft seen as a guardian in the skies, that might be grounded by budget cuts. Im Judy Woodruff ifill and im gwen ifill, well see you online and again here tomorrow evening. For all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by moving our economy for 160 years. Bnsf, the engine that connects us. Supported by the john d. And catherine t. Macarthur foundation. Committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. 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