Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20130919

Elected president. Yes, i could be but i wasnt sitting there anticipating that that would i used to kid im taking a risk. It could happen. But when i ran first time for congress, i had no thought ever of ever winning an election because i spoke the same way and i kept telling me wife dont worry im not going to be elected because they wont someone who acts like santa claus. Youre challenging, when you challenge the entire status quo, its not like you say oh right, i can convert you all in 10 minutes. This is why i never got frustrated in washington because in washington i didnt expect to change it. So what happened outside of washington, i had been amazingly surprised. Rose the Obama Presidency and a conversation about libertarianism when we continue captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. We have never seen in the history of the United States the debt celling or the threat of not raising the debt ceiling to extort a governing party and trying to are force issues that have nothing to do with the budget or the debt. Rose president obamas second term has not been an easy one so far. He faces challenges from his critics over the crises in syria and complaints from his allies unwilling to engage with his own Party Members in congress. When politico asks whats wrong with president obama from the presidency im joined at this table by richard wolffe. His new book is simply called the message reselling of president obama. We will later be joined by john harris and todd purdum. We began with richard wolffe. The reselling of president obama sort of sums it up doesnt it. It disflt i was in it was. I was inspired by the guinness book about president nixon. When he brought in his paul saryksz you have to have a laserlike focus how they repackage him. They talked about the campaign, we moved beyond that. We dont mind treating politicians like conflicts. But theres a thread i think that goes through these concerns were talking about in the media today. And what they went through in the campaign. Some things they got brilliantly right. They had to overcome not mitt romney but the whole copy. Some things they got very badly wrong and they kept a tight lid on them. Going back to the Campaign Leave these interesting clues to what were now looking at. Rose the reason i said reselling is a perfect title because if youre facing reelection in this case, its a very different election from 2008. So what they end up having to wrestle is, is it morning in america, is it sort of pre dawn in america, how much credit can the president take on a tremendous amount of work. The last debt ceiling crises, the misery of the credit down grading to succeeding against romney is a tremendous journey and a very different journey but it is about repackaging and remarketing. Rose heres the difference about this what you disclosed. After the victory everybody said what a Brilliant Team in chicago. They did everything right, they understood the election, they understood america, they understood how america had changed and where the voters were. All of that. Lets give them all the accolades we can in political history. And you come along and say wait, they were fighting like crazy. Yes. This was not the story i expected to write. Ill be honest with you, you know. Were all immersed in elections, we read over everything and watch everything. You go back and you ask people what really happened the story they told me was very different, it was very fractious, people trying to get each other fired. These are all big owe goes, very competitive people but taking it to the level of trying to fire people struck me as quite extreme. You could say it was all a disaster but of course they won so what does it matter. Our job is to tell the truth in the real story here and i think it actually even more extraordinary that they succeeded given these personal dynamics, given the deep dysfunction in chicago. Not only did they have to overcome the economy and they had to overcome each other, that was really unexpected for me. Rose at the heart of this was axelrod versus mesina. Yes. Rose part of 2008 campaign with deputy director. He had become chief operating officer. David was the central figure. When we look at the whitehouse and how it got its act together at the end of the first term, the campaigns, he is the central disciplining controlling figure. Rose david is. Dave was. Axal rod made room for pluff to come in. Rose they needed him. It wasnt because they were unhappy with david axal rod. They learned he could do more and learn more in chicago. But chicago is being run by essentially the sort of side kick jim mesina. Rose of in. David pluff. You didnt know who was calling the shots. You had david pluff in the whitehouse, jim mesina claiming to talk for the president and a lot of distrust about him. Not just with axelrod. Were all the senior people in the campaign. They essentially went their own way. Rose despite all that they ran a good campaign. They ran a phenomenal campaign. That makes it all. Its like not having a point guard and still the Basketball Team wins. You got to ask yourself the full story. Rose this is not you looking for a good story and you find the fact that like so many campaigns they had a lot of people at each others throat but in the end the big story is how good they were. Despite it all. Look i covered the 08 election from start to finish. You didnt have this kind of dynamic. One of them told me, one of the central people told me he had only ever seen one face to face argument in the Obama Campaign in 08. One. This time it was a daily occurrence. Rose it was mentioned in the rained out column today is this. How did this, what happened after the campaign was over. It was striking. Normally you would expect Campaign People to get plum jobs in the administration you expect to sort of clear out or refresh. Rose after being on the president ial campaign. They told me the next day it was back to the Conference Calls of the west wing. Nothing changed. Essentially the Campaign People thought you know wow, weve had this big cathartic moment, the president visits the headquarters and it got very tearful. They got offered jobs and everybody went their separate ways. When people look at the whitehouse and its kind of predicament, you could say well maybe some of the Campaign Spirit would have helped, maybe some of those people should have come in. Whatever it is, they lack energy and ideas right now and even democrats and supporters are saying whats going on. Rose so where was the president . One really important insight i found was from one of the senior members of the circle who said this is a president who loves policy debates. He loves opposing sides of an argument when its about the economy or Foreign Policy. When its about politics and communications he doesnt want to know. He doesnt want dissenting voices. Rose doesnt like confrontation. Thats interesting to me because it seems contradictory to what we hear about him. And you focus more on it than most people. In terms of synthesizing, take this dispute and find some central ground you have to have this person express an alternative. You have to know where the conflict is in order to decide where you want to go. Right. Well thats true. In terms of the policy. Rose but not in terms of in the selling. What were talking about now and its true with healthcare and its true with our recovery act. He comes out in the positioner has popular support. Where hes ended up with syria has large majority support and yet people think he had been confused and confusing at arrive at his journey. They still dont understand it properly. They dont believe where the jobs on recovery act even though any economic artist will show that. How can the second great communicator have such problems with his communication. Some of this is in campaign and some is endemic who he is. Rose theres beginning to be a lot of questioning of his leadership which brings us to september 2013. Syria but also other things, Larry Summers and the Federal Reserve. His relationship with the democrats in congress. Losing the room talking about how someone had done very very well in comuring capturing the moment. The tragedy president got off on a whole range of policy things rather than somehow expressing the nations concern and bring back the moment. She then goes on to sigh after citing your book time after time, new puzzlement grows over the contrast of obamas Campaign Leading the governing last to do. Obama knows the 2012 campaign had some of the same problem with leadership and direction but looked good compared with the mid 20th century romney crowd who couldnt get an app to work. Top democrats who use to consider obama one cool cat now is one weird cat. Does that some it up. I think that somehow, hes different. Hes trying to be different. You got to ask yourself what does he think he is trying to impress on people. Someone who understands the complexity of policy is a useful projection at certain times. But when youre talking about military strikes, nuance only takes you so far. Youre talking about the projection of american power. He would say we want to send a message to syria, we want to send a message to the world about chemical weapons. And his message comes around to a point where he takes a walk around the whitehouse garden and changes his mind. Rose let me go to washington. John harris and todd purdum is there writing for political. Can you hear me . Were at the moment at which your piece, the two of you arrived this morning as i was going to talk to richard and i said we ought to im large this because youre on the story. Tell me the thesis that you have about proirk at this moment, having to do with leadership, having to do with communication skills, having to do with the challenge he faces. First john then todd. Charlie as i see it, president obamas great strengths, the things people that were attracted to him in the first place, the nimbleness of his mind, the coolness of hs manner, the detachment of his style those are real assets in some circumstances with all of us but especially with presence. I think our defects are just a magnification of our virtues. And this summer weve seen a convergence of stories. Syria is one. I think the Larry Summers wouldbe nomination is another where those virtues are in fact flaws. By projecting the nuance and complexity in his mind what he was projecting instead unintentionally i think was weakness. And hes reached a point in washington where there is sort of a raising horse where people are saying theres something wrong with obama the second term is not clicking. Rose is it obama, is it his team or something else. Is it the president , president s team, external factors he would like to point to like the Republican Party. I think its been a while where youd say where obama was fully in control or was mostly in control of the circumstances. No president has ever fully in control of his circumstances. Events are always in the saddle as Abraham Lincoln said. But one does not sense that obama is using the full resources of his office to set the agenda and make the rest of washington react to him rather than the other way around. Rose todd. Yes, i think theres an odd passivity like that listless performance in denver last year where the president s like i know how to do this and came off as sum am bliss. I his he has frustration but hes not taking advantage of the resources he has which includes this communication skills he does have and he has not availed himself, nobodys afraid of him and thats a bad thing for the president. We saw in the Larry Summers case, his liberal allies are not afraid of him. Thats not a good place for the president to be in. Rose richard wolffe, thats an interesting point, nobodys scared of him. Thats very interesting and i think he put his finger on it when he made reference to the first debrate. In the first debrate in the prep he was already justifying his self. He wanted to show he was the master of the briefing books. He didnt need the briefing books he needed a one page he needed some direction and clear idea what he was going to say. If youre talking about projecting power through yards you through words you have o know what youre saying. It might work and might not work its a big thing and small thing, how do people understand what youre saying in terms of your power. Thats where some of the fear impacted loss. Rose john, do you believe he has the capacity as someone once said to see himself as others see him . I think hes got a mind that allows the same thing for multiple sides. I think hes got detachment about himself so my guess is that the answer to this is yes. My guess is that hes reading the criticism and theres no question washington is in a pile and recognize to some point theres some truth to this. Of course in some process of self criticism and ideally heading towards self correction. Rose but i mean he mentioned George Stephanopoulos know brought it up in his sunday interview. He meant an illusion to style. What does that tell you . I took it as hey look, i know full well that this process in syria was really messy but we came out alive didnt we. So judge me by the results. I would say its probably too early to know the results of syria. I think unquestionably theres a substantive dimension to this if he was sending a message to the syrians or to the rest of the world there did z to be one message that was projected. There was a somewhat brittle defensive comment in that interview with george. I dont sense in my conversations with people at the whitehouse that theyre in complete denial about this. I think they recognize theres something fundamentally off track in their thinking how can we get on track. He knows that style is stance in the presidency and remember Ronald Reagan is famous who said he didnt think how anyone who wasnt an actor could be president. Rose did we project on to him quality that he did not necessarily have or were not necessarily suited for president ial leadership . I think thats true. He presented himself initially in 20072008 in a way that allowed him to be whatever the way people wanted him to be in a fundamental way. And he contained multitudes in a way. But i think its also well to remember that those qualities that helped him once before can help him again. Calmness under pressure. Resiliency, adaptivity. Hes shown he can rebound from setbacks. Hes shown also by sticking to his guns he can sometimes try them from the end. The question is now, no one can know what will happen with syria but i mean he has certainly shown that perseverance has been its own reward. Rose is this one of those times in which the president is anxious to jump on the president , it becomes a story that has legs and all of us analyzes it and just gives it stronger legs. Well thats true. There is some of that but lets be clear. You get a short honeymoon in the start of your second term and theyre on those substantial achievements in that short hundredy moon which is definitively over. The window is closed and it took them a good six to nine months of really determined disciplined policy and messaging to get out to the last debt ceiling crises. Were going into another one and hes already walking in there limiting. What is the plan to get out of it and get back to an economic debate. We havent really heard about an economic agenda. So you want to see that unfold. Its not just about this sort of style as the president really brushed it aside. Rose how much of the problem as he would often cite of lack of really leadership on the part of the Republican Party because boehner for example cannot carry his own house. Todd. No doubt about it and i believe the president also feels whats the point trying to make a point with boehner and boehner cant make a binding deal with the house. On the issue with like syria the trouble with both houses it was going to wind up being the democrats. Those he should theoretically have more power to persuade. Those he should theoretically have more sway over. And i think thats whats puzzling some people including those democrats right now. Rose what difference does dennis mcdonau make as his chief of staff someone he completely trusts and has been with him since the senate. I think hes made an important difference on process trying to get obama out, this select groups of senators and so forth. I think thats been good. He cant change the president s personality. Rose as soon as you say that, as soon as you say that, we all know that democrats who rebelled about Larry Summers hadnt heard from the president. And they were the ones who are moving towards rebellion. John . Go ahead, todd. I was going to say he cant change the president s personality. He can put in place a Better Process to make those contacts happen but he cant change the president. Rose go ahead. Process will take you so far. Dinners and phone calls and invitations to house white picnics will take you so far. Whats true of congress is true of what churchill said of congress. They being the democrats in congress not just republicans but democrats will respect president obama to the extent that they feel he can punish them or reward them. So when hes riding high he will have all the friends among democrats he wants. When hes in the middle of a pile on as he is now, he will find himself friendless. Rose is it natural to him instinctive to him and i hate to make this analogy because its not completely fair, to want to exercise power to get his way in the same way that Lyndon Johnson did and would. No, because go ahead. Rose todd, go ahead. Lyndon johnson loved the game. Barack obama plays the game because he think he has to. Johnson was in the whole messiness of the game. Not to mention Lyndon Johnson used the effectiveness he used would probably be facing the same prosecutor environment. Rose plus he had a Democrat Congress too. A huge majority. He is a supremely competitive player. They will be eating him up right now. Hell want to get back on his game. Look, weve written him off many times. The problem is that you know at some point the high wire act failed, but every time hes been written off before he has bounced back. They talk about the pendulum swings in the whitehouse. He goes from being a tremendous you know, talent, to being a complete idiot. This is a moment where everyones saying hes a complete idiot again. I think the pendulum will swing again in his presidency but its painful for his supporters and painful for democrats in congress who say we like where we ended up in syria but look at the cost. Rose no ones ever said hes not a competent man, right. Supremely competent. Rose go ahead. Well i think the question is, look dennis mcdonau is a classic case in point. Best relationship with any chief of staff. Foreign policy expert, Knows Congress and yet they trip up all this time. The question here is whether in a refresh whitehouse is it time for out side people and can he trust outside people. The experience of people like bill daily and even rahm emanuel are not good ones for him. Can he adapt to having a new set of faces around him, im not sure thats possible. Rose in the remaining time lets focus on syria. Where do you think we are with respect to him on syria and how this has played itself out . John. The speed with which not jut president obama but washington has been eager to wipe syria off the discussion table. I think etcetera going to clearly come its going to clearly come back to the discussion table. Even if he promises not to use chemical weapons again, there is supposed to be punishment against assad. The u. S. Policy must go. I think his policy will be measured by those standards, is assad stronger or weaker and what was the punishment for using chemical weapons. Talking about his degrading capacity to do so again and prevent him. I think thats the second part. We have yet to see whether this diplomacy is really on the level, that is whether the russians can extract concrete concessions and really make syria abide by those. So i doubt as eager as washington is and again not just obama but the democrats and republicans in congress are eager to change the subject. I think were going to see this come back on. Rose back to what, debt or the economy . Budget, back to the economy, back to all the rest. Rose when you look at Foreign Policy and where he is and how hes making these decisions, was it a mistake with 20 20 hindsight to talk about a red line. Was it a mistake to at some point say im going to take it to the congress . Todd. Well he might have been able to talk about a red line in a broader way, collective red line instead of sort of acting alone about the red line. He might have defined it a little more broadly or precisely however you want to do it. Everyone thought it meant military action, he might not have meant military action. If you take it to the congress and it had worked it would have strengthened it, it would have been better and it would have redeemed one of his long standing pledges not to shoot first and ask questions later, not to be george w. Bush, not the kind of person who takes the hot dog unilateral position on Foreign Policy. I think he feels bad hes been unable on questions like guantanamo, the war on terror, all the remnants he vowed to hit the reset button from the Bush Administration lets face it hes doubled down. I disagree with my coauthor there which doesnt happen very often. The problem with going to congress was it was not a principal decision, it was aning expedient decision. Other circumstances where he used force he hasnt seen the knee to go to congress. The reason he went to congress, he felt he was in a jam he wanted somebody to coown this policy with him and he found out there were, we never got to a vote but there were no takers for that. So i dont think he could really argue it was coming from the place of deep conviction it was coming from the place of more opportunistic place. Look im not going to own this myself you have to hop in too. In fear of what happened to david cameron. Rose obviously this is not the first president to have challenging moments in his second term. Ken burns says the historians breath and command so therefore, sir. How is he different at this stage than he was when we first began to look at his presidency . He rapidly became much more impatient with some of the debates going on. I think the trappings of president ial mean that inevitably you get used to things moving in your direction, people saying that yes, sir, youre brilliant and well do whatever you want. The challenge is to your conventional wisdom, your passive action become fewer and tourist specially when there are familiar faces around you. So i do think being the president is a very strange bubble, its obviously a gilded cage for him and his family. But there is, i think its harder for him to hear alternative use. He spends his evening out cruising the internet to find obscure articles from wantish magazines but maybe his advisors are not giving him. Rose he does. Yes, of course. And that drives them crazy as well. Thats why he refers to these lessons too much. One of the few points where the wall breaks through and i guess we have to ask ourselves how do we get to the point where the president not just him but all president s are so distant from the people that they are relying on handful of letters who are selected by one of their own aides by the way. Rose i know a lot of people as you know and a lot about what happened with Osama Bin Laden and gates talked to me about the leadership he has. How would all three of you assess his leadership at this moment at this time in his second term. Ill begin with you john harris. I think the one thing president obama is still lacking, five years after he came to office, and really ten years after he came on the National Stage is association with a big idea. You referred to it a moment ago with reagan and maybe to a lesser extent bush. But when you can fall back on an idea, people know what you stand for and they know your place in the national argument, that gives you a great deal of freedom. Even the freedom to make mistakes because youre doing it in a principal way. Obama im not suggesting hes unprincipled but theres lack of definition on this, theres look of being associated with a big idea. I think its a shortcoming of his leadership. And what it does is even with his own party, every move that he makes subject to second guessing and cynical interpretations. When he does something one way, hes appointing Larry Summers while hes just doing that because hes trying to tack to the right or Something Like that. When he moves a different direction, the remnants of the new deal or the new democrats and the third wave always thinking for cynical reasons. If youre associated with an idea, people give you a benefit of the doubt in a way that i think people are not giving that to barack obama. Rose todd, leadership. I think one of the thing that sort of is an interesting open question for me about president obama hes clearly one of the smartest people in whatever room hes in. Whats not yet clear whether he brings into lib rations in the whitehouse the zyme kind of awe cuity that john kennedy did. You can read the tapes of the cuban missal crises and you can see the smartest most empt skeptical earnest person in the room was always the president. And he was the one with an experience of a journey naval officer now. Thats one thing president obama may lack the intimate knowledge of how the whole mess really works. I think hes been subject to second guessing. Theres a particular scrutiny matt hes had because he seemingly came out of no where because hes the first, first African American president , not spent a lot of time in washington. Washington has never want to him and hes never want to washington. Having said that there are real serious questions about whether he has, if he one the election because he connected with people, people felt he understood their problems and their values and he could relate to them. And i think what weve seen at the start of the second term is an agenda that wasnt for start what he talked about in the election, wasnt speaking to that priority, especially economic priorities. And if youre going to bet all of the political capitalists as president bush called it on gun reform, gun control, then you need to follow through. Even if congress stops, you need to take that fight to them and you need to have some of the lbj about you where youre willing to press the case against people who are maybe conservative senators in democrat states and it dropped, it stopped. When you see these Mass Shootings coming back and the president half hardly tries to make some comments before he goes back to the debt scene thats not following through thats not what john calls what the defining vision is. Its fine to change your defining vision, circumstances change and new town happens but he doesnt have that consistency. Rose in fact, it was pointed out today dr. Janice the chief operating officer of Med Star Washington Hospital Center said quote theres something evil in our society that we as americans have to work to try and eradicate. She was speaking two minutes drive from the whitehouse. That was in proximity to congress and the whitehouse and yet this conversation in that terrible time this conversation has drawn to a very rapid close. A president with this much ability to connect to the American People could sustain this debate. Could push it forward. Even with a reluctant congress. And you know, if youre looking for a bigger vision over a longer term following gun control over a time like this. The book is called the message to be selling to president obama. Politico john harris and todd purpose takes a closer look at president obama. Lock. I sort of have to chuckle when they describe you and me as being dangerous. [crowd cheering] thats one thing they are telling the truth because we are dangerous to the status quo of this effort. Rose ron paul is here, he retired from congress in january after serving 12 terms as a representative from texas. He dedicated his long political career to advocating libertarian principles, individual liberty, Economic Freedom and nonintervention as Foreign Policy. He ran for president on that platform three times. He has been called the intellectual god father of the tea party. He writes about the american system and proposes changes to fix it. It is called the School Revolution, a new answer for our broken education system. I many pleased to have him here at this table for the first time. Welcome. Thank you, nice to be here. Rose about time you came here. Before we talk about the book its called the School Revolution, a new answer to our broken education system. Define what libertarianism means to you. To me the word i use to best define it is not something a lot of people use. I call it nonintervention. Rose nonintervention in personal life nonintervention in foreign paulity. There it is because it sort of tells you conservative libertarian, constitutionist, but nonintervention as you say, i dont want to interfere if your personal life. One rule is you cant hurt another person. Thats where guns are unnecessariy. The founders were pretty adamant about advice not getting involve in tang ling alliances or interfering in the internal affairs of other nations so thats none intervention. And then also in the economy, sometimes i get close allies with the left honest progressive democrat like a dennis kucinich, we always worked together in Civil Liberties and Foreign Policy. But when it came to Economic Policy i apply the same rule of nonintervention to economics. Now they say well you may not mean Business People can do anything they want. No, theres still some rules. Rose what kind of regulation are you prepared that is necessary in capitalist system. Mostly theyre not kept regulations. Theyre not preemption. I look at this like if youre in the Media Business one thing you dont want is prior restraint you know because the government is going to tell you what you can say and what you cant say. When i apply that to economics, you produce a product and theres no prior restraint. You say well how do you get this protection. The market, the free market is pretty strict rose so you wouldnt want to see a fda. No. Rose you have to get their approval before you can market a drug. Yes. The fda is run by individuals who used to be in the drug, theyre connected with the rose theres an idea here that they are corrupt people. Most of the time when you have regulation, say you regulate banking, the banking lobby rose stay with you. Lets assume what youre saying is true. Thats one good reason not to do it. Rose the Pharmaceutical Company control the fda is that your point. Yes. Rose so whatever they do is what. Sometimes they prevent good drugs from coming out and sometimes they endorse rose they keep bad drugs from come out. Is that a useful purpose . Yes. Rose thats prior restraint then. Yes, but youre making the assumption that in the market, there would be nobody to supervise. There would be supervisory orgainizations that would warrant i mean you have a Good Housekeeping rose you believe that. Seefl approval that people use all the time. Rose that would work with respect to what we have today is so imperfect because the assumption is made most Business People dont want to take care of their customers. Thats wrong rose the question is not what most want to do the question is how do you make sure those who dont who want to do otherwise that there is some barrier from them doing it. Yes. If you want perfect safety in any area, in social matters rose not perfect but minimize the kind of whether its i think every regulation creates the necessity of having too new regulations. Thats where the federal registry grows all the time. They dont solve the problem. These unintended consequences, expenses involve. Rose youre saying as long as there are regulations that dont serve a purpose you should have no regulations. I want regulations by the marketplace because there are certain things you cant commit fraud, you cant steal you cant hurt people. You cant do a lot. And there should be immediate reaction. Its not like you can do anything you want. And the basic assumption is that Business People want to satisfy their customers. But when you have regulations, it becomes politicized. Its totally political. Its sort of like distributing r d funds. Oh well everybody wants research and development but if its political, you put the money into the wrong thing. Rose then are you saying regulations are a bad thing because they dont work, because they become politicized or those are pretty good reasons. Mine is the moral reason. Rose moral reason. The moral reason, the same reason i dont have and the more reason to come here and use prior restraint because you might libel somebody or you mate Say Something that will harm a lot of people. Just think of the damage done by bad philosophy, you know. Philosophy and religion. Look at all the things that are done. We wouldnt think for a minute more people have been killed by bad religious theology, you know, distorted theology, i think it is. And philosophy. I mean the philosophy of totalitarianism has been around for a long many time but we dont burn the books and prevent you from studying. Much more harm was done by freedom of choice with our minds and in religion, you know. Those kind of problems are so much greater than if you say that theres a selfregulatory aspect of what free people will do. We gave up too soon on the principals of liberty and i think thats what im interested in. Rose did the Federal Reserve serve as well then at the time of the economic collapse. They prolonged the argument which means there will be more suffering later on. Were into our fifth year now and were embarking on what we did in the 30s. The pressure lasted 15 years the correction wasnt permitted. The japanese economy hasnt revived because they kept doing the wrong things. You have to allow a correction of all the mistakes and we have not allowed that to happen. Rose in other words what would you have preferred to have been in response to the economic collapse . Do a lot less. Not created rose what if all the banks had gone under that would have been okay because the market worked. Because its the best thing to do is not reward the people who made so much money. The people who were in the derivatives market, they were rewarded at the penalty of the middle class. They got the taxes, they launched their jobs, they launched their mortgages, they launched their houses. Rose and would more if they hadnt stepped in and said this is a temporary matter because the Economic System like it did in the Great Depression is about to collapse. Yes, but what they did in the depression and made it worse. So that is the real problem. Rose do you think it made it worse. Bailing and propping up a system that caused a problem. If youre looking for good example of what you could do to limit it, see the fed came in 13 and there was world war i and there had to be correction because there was over investment and distortion. Then there was a depression, lasted one year and none of us even study it in school. Because hands off the people have overextended and they werent solvent. They were out of business and it was over. But in the 30s came in and said you cant do this out of humanitarian concern we have to care for people so they said spend more money borrow more money, print more money. And the depression ended not until after world war ii. Rose so stimulating the economy on the part of the Federal Reserve or any other peel see is not a good idea at a time of economic severity. Its never a good idea because the stimulation you dont know where it was going to be. In the 90s all the money went into the nasdaq and created a bubble. This time it went into housing. You cant control what the money will still late. You never know. It stimulates one thing for the middle class and those are prices. Some people make a lot of money at the benefit of governments and the bureaucrats and big business and military. But its not good for the middle class because their cost of living never, their cost of living goes up much faster than their wages. Look at it today. We have two societies and thats explainable by economics. Its not explainable by saying well the 1 the rich people if youre in the top 10 . Rose under a president ron paul that was an idea you once had. Did you seriously think you could be president. I could be but i wasnt there anticipating that would happen. I used to kid that im taking a risk, you know. It could have happened. Rose you could have won. When i ran first time for congress, i had no thought ever of everybody winning an election because i spoke the same way and i kept telling my wife dont worry i will never be elected because they wont elect anyone who is a santa claus. When youre attacking the entire status quo its like all right i can convert you all in 10 minutes. This is why i never got frustrated in washington because in washington i didnt expect to change it. So what happened outside of washington, i had been amazingly surprised. Rose so looking at the world today, when should the United States use force overseas. When somebody uses force against us. Overseas its virtually never. Rose its not a business if the syrians used chemical weapons. Well not directly rose the president was concerned we should deal with things that are our responsibility. Because on the, in the last couple years weve killed 5,000 people with drones missiles. Rose what do you think about that. That was horrible. That was our elected leaders. We shouldnt pretend we know when to intervene in syria. Here we are today the president s working very hard to make sure a lot of people in this country dont have guns. But at the same time were giving guns to the alqaeda who is fighting assad and theyre involved in this and wore benefiting. Rose how are we giving guns to alqaeda. Were helping, were sending weapons into the rebels. Rose you know they are not sending weapons in alqaeda. In fact it weakens iran others have suggested they know exactly what theyre doing. If youre supporting the military overthrow and supporting any rebel group, you support them all. I mean, did not we do something very similar with bin laden in afghanistan with rose lets assume theres convincing evidence the iranians not only have the capacity but they have nuclear weapons. Every american president has said its unacceptable. What does ron paul say. I would treat them sort of like the soviets. They had 30,000. Rose so containment is okay with you. I certainly wouldnt build a war do you think the iranians are going to attack us . Look at the discussion weve had for ten year or more. Rose would you want to risk that. On a weapon that doesnt exist. I mean right now obama if anything were getting hints. I think theyre delightful that theyre willing to talk to this new leader over there. I think this is wonderful that to hell at least talk. Rose talking about engagement, youre saying right on, brother. If you want to talk to them fine and dandy. I think we should do a lot more talking. Do you know how many thousands of diplomats we had maybe its time we had a little bit of diplomacy. Rose who does the tea party represent today. I think they represent people who are uniform in their beliefs except big government, the operation of government and efficiency of government especially the spending in government. Actually very first time this started up was during our campaign. But then it branched out and the republicans got very much involved. Rose and if its fide to shutting down the government, is that okay with ron paul. Well yes because the alternative is turning the United States into detroit, are you know. You just cant keep spending money and trillions of dollars and tripping money. The calamity is going to be much worse than slowing up the spending. Rose thats why i like having you here. The School Revolution a new answer for our broken education system. Whats broken and lots of people believe lots is broken. And how would you fix it . People agree it is broken and weve had a system for 150 years based on expulsion and conformity. I dont think thats good. Its an authoritarian system. It has abolished creativity and curiosity which is very necessary. So the whole theme of the book is based around the philosophy, were just talking about and its the philosophy of liberty which is not coercive. And our Public School system teaches the authoritarian approach, why you have to have government run the economy, why you have to protect the government against bad social habits and why you have to police the world. So its a philosophy that contradicts everything in the freedom philosophy. So the book is based on what is liberty, how to define it, how to defend it for the sole purpose of getting a better education. And the design for an education for this being grade school or high school is how you get into college, how you start a business. But its really designed in such a way where the student and the parents become totally in charge and not the washington scene. Washington now is, its republicans and brakes. The republicans gave us no child left behind and nobody likes that anymore. And now were having core curriculum. Its more and more testing controls and the kids are bored to death. Kids want to learn. Before they get into school thats all they do is they ask questions and they learn. In school, the Public School system just sort of squelch all that curiosity. Rose with respect to home schooling do you believe thats the way to go in terms of parents who believe the Public School education is not benefiting their kids. I think its an option that doesnt solve all the problems because i dont think 100 of the people are in school. The goal is to look at people who are self starters and self disciplined, who created leadership, people who are interested in another school of thought on economics and willing to listen to the noninterventionist policies. Its probably about 20 maximum that would be, you know, likely to take this course. And also, its designed to protect liberty which means it protects everybodys hope schooling program. Mine is nonreligious, a secular approach to liberty so that individuals are always protected. We get away from all these arguments, can you say a prayer in school, how are you going to pick the right book in a Public School. We can find all kinds of examples of very great bias in our Public Schools but i dont want to get in there and be in charge of rewriting the textbooks because you cant satisfy everybody. But if you have people going to private schools and home schooling, really thats diversity. Rose what about charter schools, what do you think of them. Charter schools gives some people some benefit. I think the best thing is they do better than the regular Public School system. Rose sometimes they do sometimes they dont. Yes. So i dont know if that is the answer, im not promoting it. Rose are you optimistic about america because of what is the essence of our creed, the constitution and the bill of rights. You know, are when i go to the College Campus which i continue to do, and i like that. And i talked about all those problems, about 90 of the time. Then i talk about liberty and why im optimistic, why the market works and why your business and your life is your own and why it would be so much better for the world if we didnt have a policy war. So ive become very optimistic and im optimistic because of the reception i get, because libertarian freedom is on the move and for two reasons. One its been developed over the last 30 years. Also the failure of the system, this caging economics and welfarism and socialism and inflationism is failing and people want something different. So the doors are open for an idea and i think the ideas of liberty are just a wonderful thing so im an optimist about that. Rose any doubt in your mind that the senator from kentucky rand paul, your son will run for president . Well, when they started that last year in the fall they started talking about the next election, i said im still trying to count my votes from the last election. Wait a minute. I mean hes acting like hes very interested. Rose i dont know if he is. He acts like hes running. I wouldnt argue with that. People dont believe this but he and i dont have a whole lot of conversations like that about what are you going to do today. Rose do you have a whole lot in common. We have a lot of common. Rose do you. I think so. Rose 9 9 percent of what what do you differ over. Probably approach. Hes more angst, i guess. Rose hes more nuanced. Hes leading the charge. I dont think hes going to come out and say that the fed is the greatest outfit we ever had and we dont need to audit them. Rose if he does that hes been very good on nsa and i like that. Rose tell me what you like about nsa, thats a good point. Nothing. What i like about the debate, and what im talking about in the school and what i did in congress is bring a new coalition together. We saw it with nsa and we saw it with the vote that didnt occur on the war. And thats bringing progressive democrats together with libertarian. I think thats the new move rose progressive democrats and the libertarian as a new majority. They didnt win the vote on nsa but they only lost by 12 against pelosi and boehner. See the established parties, republican and Democrat Party endorse the same views. Most people think theyre really at loggerheads over philosophy but theyre not. Rose coming together with the tea party is mainly from the left side is Civil Liberties isnt it. Yes, Civil Liberties. Rose having to do with Foreign Policy too. So those two issues, those are big issues right now. So as a matter of fact, its a position i took into campaign on the Economic Issues because were broke and its going to lead to bad things. Why dont we agree to bring troops home and save our money. And even though im opposed to some of these social programs child healthcare and these things i said but so many people are dependent on it. I will not start there, start cutting those programs. Sometimes republicans get trapped into saying you know were going to cut some welfare programs and they want billions and billions more for warfare. I dont take that approach. Thats the reason i dont seem to be so hostile with working with people who disagree with me and they might not want government medicine which obviously i dont. You could work a transition. I dont expect it. I would work by cutting changing the Foreign Policy and having a Foreign Policy defended this country, saving a lot of money and trying to wean people off these programs. Im afraid the programs are going to Self Destruct with a currency crises. We keep borrowing, foreigners are still loaning us money and we keep printing it but the market will decide when enough is enough. And then theyll just say Interest Rates are going up. And the Interest Payments will be the biggest item in the budget. Rose the book is called the School Revolution, a new answer for our broken education system, ron paul. Thank you for joining us. See you next time. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org this is nightly Business Report with tyler mathisen. Brought to you by sailing through the heart of historic cities and landscapes on a river, you get close to iconic landmarks, to local life, to cultural treasures. Viking river cruises. Exploring the world in comfort. Decided to await more evidence that the recoverys progress will be sustained before adjusting the pace of asset purchases. Marketshocker. The fed says it wont slow its bondbuying for now, surprising wall street and sending stocks to record highs and bond yields down. Whats next, and what it means for your money. Wave of change. Walgreens, the largest u. S. Drugstore, becomes the latest Major Company to move its employees to a private Health Insurance exchange. Will others follow and is this an irreversible tr