And she with a what a face to face screening only 4 officers were on duty at a remote station in New Mexico when Jacqueline and 162 other migrants arrived c.b.p. Has said it will add more medically trained officers to the station for n.p.r. News I'm want to go to these would leave it in El Paso a crowd in Oakland California greeted Seamus wall late late Wednesday she's the Yemeni mother who fought a year long battle for a travel ban in order to see her dying son swallow his family attorney but non. Chris was says the waiver process is a sham and this case clearly demonstrates what a tragic nightmare the waiver process. And the real human consequences it can have . There are hundreds of others and mostly waiting for waivers just like the family a lawsuit led to the waiver being granted this is n.p.r. News a federal judge in Washington has this extended his order blocking the trumpet ministrations ban on asylum protection for people who claim they fear returning home because of the threat of domestic abuse or gang violence u.s. District court judge Emmet Sullivan says the policy violates federal immigration law which he says can only be changed by Congress and not the executive branch Sullivan's ruling pertains to guidance that was issued by then Attorney General Jeff Sessions who said The law covers people who are fleeing war torture or persecution by government. In a caracal authorities have expelled international observers who have been investigating human rights abuses by the government of President Daniel Ortega as N.P.R.'s Carrie Kahn reports the expulsions came only one day before the investigators were to announce their findings the human rights officials had been working under an agreement signed last June between the Nicaraguan government and the Organization of American States in a letter to Secretary General of the OAS Nicaragua's foreign ministry accuse the observers of acting irresponsibly and promoting terrorist actions and ordered their immediate departure from the country the OAS says that expulsions further place Nicaragua into the terrain of authoritarianism since last April when anti-government protests began more than 320 people have been killed and hundreds jailed last week are take a close down 5 non-governmental groups and raided the offices of the respected independent news outlet confident Carrie Kahn n.p.r. News an Asian market shares are lower this is n.p.r. News in Washington support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include Sierra Nevada Brewing Company family owned operated and argued over since 1980 proud supporter of independent thought whether that's online or over the air or in a bottle at Sierra Nevada dot com. Welcome to forum I'm Michael Krasny Governor Jerry Brown is retiring after a remarkable career in public service which includes stencils a 2 time 2 term governor of the state mayor of Oakland and the state's attorney general and he leaves office with a budget surplus for his successor Gavin Newsome and having passed weeping legislation on climate change prison and police reform water and infrastructure projects and gender discrimination will also talk about his 2 well of troubled signature projects the Delta tunnels and high speed rail and in this hour we're going to take stock of Jerry Brown's legacy what's your take if you can call us now at 866-733-6786 the number again 866-733-6786 joining us for the hour Scott Shafer senior editor for k cuties California politics and government Desk good morning Scott Michael let me also say Good Morning America Lagos' reporter for k cuties California politics and government this worrisome welcome morning Michael good morning to you and good morning to Craigmillar science editor for Cutie was here with us in studio Good morning correct morning Michael Scott let me begin with you and let's begin by before we even go into an assessment here and it's a broad assessment to be sure a salon dot com did a whole Susman they said mixed legacy resistant resistance hero or a hypocrite it's interesting when you can get that kind of duality but I'm interested in finding out from you about 1st of all what you feel about his legacy even though he has said I don't have a legacy that's a construct of the media and. Brave go back to Colusa County and retire at 80 but at the same time you were the 2nd man a press clothes farewell thoughts he had what did you pick up yeah well I can tell you one thing he's not using the word retire and he resists the word legacy because he thinks you don't have a legacy to your dad and he's still got a lot of things he left left that he wants to do including just in the last 3 weeks in office before he leaves and makes way for Gavin Newsom on January 7th forgive me Scott this is an interview that you did yesterday. With him right so both the law goes and I Katie or we went to hear him he spoke for the 1st time in decades at the Sacramento Press Club and was interviewed by George Skelton of the l.a. Times and Mary Impala who's written a biography of him and you know he's very reflective as he always is you know I think he's proud of what he's done in the last 8 years and I think he has some right to be if you think back to what he inherited in January of 2011 I mean the state as you mentioned at the top Michael was a mess and it wasn't just California I mean the country was a mass but Jerry Brown inherited a $26000000000.00 deficit from his predecessor of course the economy was tanking there were huge numbers of home foreclosures a lot of pain and he used that to restructure state government in a lot of ways getting rid of redevelopment agencies and letting that money stay vailable to the general fund in Sacramento he did some enormous changes which will get into one criminal justice other voters you know chimed in on that as well but he you know I think he has had the reputation earned the reputation as he says I'm no one's cheaper with a buck than I am and he's been very frugal and he's left the state in incredibly good hands and Gavin Newsome is one of the 1st governors incoming governors to be left with such a big surplus and such a big reserve of funds in some ways you know I feel like it's you know I say by Jerry Brown he bought low and he's going to sell high you know you came in with very difficult circumstances and he's leaving the state in very good shape by most accounts you know people will quibble with that people say the taxes are too high and other things and certainly you can make that argument but. It's going to be a hard act to follow in the sense that you know there's perhaps is a recession looming and that something of the next governor will have to deal with but you know I think the governor can take a lot of pride in where he's leaving California Well the the big issue in many people's minds is what you touched on are kind of signature issues we'll talk about the Delta tunnels and we'll talk about the. High speed rail but I'm wondering what your thoughts are about the fact that we now have a 6100000000 dollar surplus I mean a lot of that had to do with a rainy day fund but his predecessors had you know enormous deficits and that in itself was quite extraordinary achievement by any light it is yeah I mean the so-called piggy bank the raid a farm which was created by voters has about 14000000000 dollars in it now there are restrictions on how that can be spent you can't the next governor in the legislature can't just spend it on anything they want but in addition to that there is the unrestricted surplus budgets or plus that the legislative analyst says will be coming in the next several budget years so yeah he's leaving things in good shape. But you know a lot of that was the voters there was a big tax increase profit 30 that the governor championed and voters passed and then it was extended that had a lot to do with it and you know the economy has just come roaring back I think he's really shown that California you know with its relatively high taxes and very strict environmental regulations and laws around climate change and emissions controls that those things are not. Mutually exclusive with a robust economy and I think that that's something that you know he's been showing and California's been showing for the last you know 6 to 7 years I talked to Scott Shafer who is senior editor for Katie's California politics and government desk just a overview question to you Scott marvelled the Seri who is essentially the head of . The. Blank on the title of the group. Thank you. You know has said that he left the state he's leaving the state better off than it was before that was the old question about executives you know you're better off than you were 4 years ago beginning with I think Ronald Reagan a former governor of California and the fact is that in many people's minds he has left the state at least financially well we'll talk about what the criticisms are but financially and also now the serious argument is that he's probably got a lot more approval than previous governors have had. Well yeah and I think a lot of that is a reflection of the economy you know he talked with the Marines a lot of us in me yesterday about that and you know sometimes fairly are not politicians are thought more well thought of when the economy's doing well Jerry Brown would be the 1st to tell you he didn't fix the economy but he presided over an incredible economic recovery and you know implemented some policies that enabled California to take full advantage of that so I think you know it's. A lot of it was the times that he governed in but I think he also had an opportunity which was extraordinary for a governor to come back you know 30 years later after he was governor the 1st time and fix some of the things that he felt maybe he didn't do so well the 1st time around especially around criminal justice issues you know we were in a very tough on crime lock him up and throw away the key sort of era that he contributed to in the legislature contributed to back in the seventy's and early eighty's and a lot of the reforms which Merissa has reported on we've both reported on but particularly Marie said you know have really addressed some of those issues in the mass incarceration that he's still not happy with and I think you'll see in the final weeks he's going to probably address that with I would guess a fairly large number of commutations of inmates specially lifers who got a particularly long sentences with the possibility of parole I think that's going to really be a focus of his final couple weeks well we're also going to talk about what he's done on environmental front a 1st let me go to you Mary so let's talk about what he's done in terms of Criminal Justice and just the whole picture. Yeah I mean it's really remarkable if you think back to the fact that in his 1st term he did sign a determent sentencing law that was basically aimed at what was perceived as a real injustice that the time which was that there was these kind of open ended sentences in the sense that the parole board tended to discriminate against men of color in particular and other people that maybe didn't look like them and so there was this sense that if you could give more certainty in sentencing it would be better for the inmates and better for the public and more fair and then that sort of snowballed into what we saw over the next 2 decades which was an increase as Jerry Brown will put it you know thousands of laws on the books that really made it so hard for people to get out of prison even if they were rehabilitated and sort of doing the right thing behind bars and you know when he came in again like a lot of what Jerry Brown has done over the last 8 years has been out of necessity and so I think Scott's point there's been a bit of luck and a bit of hard work added together and when he came in within months the u.s. Supreme Court ordered that case that had been winding its way through the courts for almost a decade was going to be upheld and this was the one that basically said that California was treating its inmates unconstitutionally by denying them medical care and that I was a direct result of the crowding and so he went to the legislature and turned around a bill that I still sort of scratch my head that it cut through in some ways and this was a b 109 as realignment it put a lot of lower level nonviolent non-serious offenders to serve their sentences in county jails instead of state prisons and you know it was it was smart and I think it gave us a window now in hindsight to the way he decided to approach this program which was not through early release which is entirely controversial and could be political suicide if you know the wrong person gets out but was through as as one watcher that I spoke to for a story we're working on put it that he really harnessed the administer. Great of state over his 8 years to push policy is that for example you know if you want to 9 but also who he appointed to the parole board who he's putting in judgeships and then later Prop 57 a ballot measure that really gave the parole board a lot more flexibility in how they decide when to release people and I think didn't end to terminate something that really is the strongest kind of change to that law for decades later and so you know we have seen a precipitous drop I mean we still as he puts a have a huge incarceration problem in not just the state but this country but it really is remarkable when you think about you know just the relationship that his predecessors had Gray Davis was very close with the prison officers union and you know they had been the ones that had funded things like 3 strikes that really helped pack the prisons and Brown just really turned that around and I think was not afraid to take on some of his friends at times I mean you know has a pretty antagonistic relationship still with the district attorneys who have you know wield a lot of power up in Sacramento so. It is just one of those things where it may not some of you know the impacts of this we may not even feel for decades around the judges he's appointed and some of these policies but it has really started this change and then of course voters embrace even further reaching reforms that he didn't have anything to do with but I think have really helped him achieve the goal of starting to get out of that court order to reduce the numbers and certainly going along with moving against in ways to comply with a court order but I'm also struck by the fact that the the argument you still hear are he was too soft on crime California is less safe. Yeah I mean you know I think that these are as you know Michael data can be used sort of on all sides I think what we do know is that nationally violent crime is down just wholesale across the United States and has not picked up in California after these 2. Changes we have seen some property crime spikes in some places I mean we've covered this and to Francisco around auto theft break ins and I'm there has been some challenges around shoplifting for big retailers because of some of the changes in another measure again that Jerry Brown didn't push property 7 that raise the threshold for when you actually get a felony in terms of the amount of you know the amount of what something costs that you steal I mean there was some clean up legislation around that but I also think it's worth mentioning you know as much as sometimes it's what you don't do as a governor as much as what you do do and I guess you could say a veto is doing something but he did not sign a lot of bills that would have even increased crimes even more so we often side veto messages over the last 8 years that said we don't need another crime for this there are plenty of ways that prosecutors can punish people if they do something Ron and then of course he signed some really larger sweeping bills that again were not necessarily his but he embraced them including the felony murder rule which is going into effect now which is basically changing whether accomplices can be charged with murder in most cases changing sentencing for juveniles so it's much harder for prosecutors to lock up kids who commit crimes and then of course. Commutations he has committed more sentences than any other government governor in history and we actually have a kind of who have Let's hear this because today we have 5000 people who are given have been given life without any possibility of parole and we have another just under 5000 that are given so many decades in prison that we did so a little comedy it's almost 2000 people so that's a group that I want to work out that I think I could have some effect on those in death row it's not a it's not a great not a pleasant place but if you look at some of the crimes pretty horrible too there was an interview Scott did yesterday about commuting sentences and here's a caller pushing back. Already on crime in Jerry Brown Rob Go ahead you're on the air Yeah thank you actually I was going to talk about how he's made some pretty neat cuts to places like the courts especially like family court or a member reading and how it's really pushed up the way crimes for people to get a hearing and affect a lot of just regular people's lives have any of those deep cuts been restored now that the state is a little more flush Morrison Yeah so yes I don't think as many as the chief justice and the court system would like there were very deep cuts I think during the recession and obviously not just the courts but that is a very good point the caller makes Rob because you know this idea of it being harder for people to get their day in court and not you know drive cars for people I know the chief justice when we sat down with her a couple weeks ago talked about how actually more people are choosing to go if they have the money through mediation and other alternatives to the courts she seems hopeful that given our governor elect Avenue somes dad was a judge that he might be a little bit more sympathetic to this and I think that you know there have been some restorations of those but not nearly enough I'm sure if you talk to any charges but I think you know just to add to that that probably the biggest impact Jerry Brown has had on the courts is not funding which you know the next governor may restore more fully than he has but the number of judges he's appointed Michael he's appointed probably at this point almost half the judges he's appointed over $600.00 judges throughout the system including a majority 4 of the 7 on the Supreme Court one still waiting for confirmation Joshua Groban But that legacy because a lot of those judges were younger and not only will they be there for a long time but as the chief justice pointed out when we met with her they have a different point of view about a lot of issues they are you know more concerned about consumer how consumers are treated the climate gun control those sorts of things and so I think you're going to see not only are they more a more diverse group in terms of as. In a city race gender but also they come from different backgrounds he's appointed many more public defenders for example and defense attorneys than I would venture to say all of his predecessors combined just because he wants the courts on the bench to be more diverse not just in terms of demographics but in terms of background that's could mean he's got say for sorry so go ahead oh yeah I just want to put some numbers so that part in and commutation just some context here so as of last month the governor had issued $1189.00 pardons compared to 15 from Schwarz and agger the other top was Reagan which was less than half of that 574 and 152 commutation for example Governor Gray Davis issued 0 commutations and Brown only issued one in his 1st 2 terms so I think that just shows you the scope of it and it can get something that sort of leading to earlier which is this idea that he hasn't gone at the problem by saying let's open our prison doors and you know just let people out there is not 10 years off of every one sentence it's been a little bit more I think surgical and I think in these cases you know he talked about yesterday one thing that is always really impressed me about Brown is he reads everything I mean he reads these commutation and pardon applications he reads the bills I think sometimes it drives his staff crazy because he's like so in the weeds on some stuff but I think it'll be you know interesting to see over the next 2 weeks as we near the end of the year how many more he adds to this list and we just heard today that Sam's is going to Ireland and breed has actually asked for her brother's sentence he has a manslaughter charge he's serving 44 years to be commuted and so I think you know high profile cases like that will be weighing and then ones that none of us have ever heard of and we should mention of course the ending of cash bail which is a big part of the whole legacy is recalling some of the emotions his concern but. I want to forgive him Reese but I want to move on to the environment a lot to cover here talking about the governor's legacy and Craig Miller is here with us in studio science editor k.q.e.d. Before we go to Craig So let's hear a cut from yesterday's interview that Scott did with Governor Brown about climate change I think we did quite a lot I'd say California has taken more until and intones and it's on climate change in any state or province in the Western Hemisphere and more than almost all jurisdictions in the whole world certainly true Craig I mean he's been canonized for all this international scope that he's provided in the realm of doing something about climate change and really doing something you know I should say the outset by the way that Lauren Sommer of our science team is putting together a story on this very topic which will hear in the coming days on the California report that Jerry Brown's engagement with the environment really goes back to his 1st term we're talking like 1975 when he almost immediately got rid of a major tax break for the oil industry and then jumped into promoting solar power with both feet I mean he caught that wave when it was really only a ripple this then became environmentally identified it was out there with the whales doing you know all sorts of new technology at the time is right got the name Governor Moonbeam. This time around the table was pretty well set by his predecessor Arnold Schwarzenegger who was he signed the state's landmark climate legislation he held the 1st high profile governor's climate summits and also kind of some kind of began the movement of rallying what they call subnational government cities and counties and provinces you know around climate action in the absence of federal action and then but there's no question that that Jerry Brown once he was in office you know took that ball and really ran with it. But you know more than anything else I think he just became a megaphone really for the threat that climate change represents and I think that what he was try. To do as calibrate California's response to the magnitude he perceived of that threat California is committed to doing whatever is necessary to meet the existential threat of climate change and yes it is a nexus national threat no matter what the naysayers may say it is a real present danger to California and of the people of the world that was Jerry's a philosopher and series of last year was very much into the need for California to be beacon to the world on climate change yeah and it became that you know he used this term x. Essential x. This is actually a central threat is there for him to say the very he used this term existential threat over and over again you know almost to the point where he became kind of a broken record and recently kind of famously updated his vocabulary as you may recall to saying not the new normal but the new abnormal represented by climate change this is in the midst of these catastrophic fires meaning of course that climate change will continue to just keep throwing us curves there really is no normal man what do you think though about the criticism has come down on Governor Brown for oil drilling I mean I was looking at substance to 6 to term career of the governor signed over $20000.00 bills but he also had about $23000.00 oil drilling permits go ahead and also people have not forgiven him for being they want to be tough I want to have been tougher on fracking Yeah there has been a kind of an ongoing nagging criticism throughout his administration that he's been soft on oil in spite of all of the climate action and there's been quite a bit of it. And that by it's true that he did a few years ago replaced to regulators at the state level who are not approving permits fast enough he has a he's been tough on the federal government coming into federal waters and wanting to drill for oil offshore but he's been pretty lenient about drilling in state waters and drilling onshore and he's definitely come nowhere near something like. The Governor Cuomo of New York who. Who instituted an outright ban on fracking which is a technique controversial technique used in drilling come back and talk more about Governor Brown not only the environment but overall what he's left those with here and what he's left for his successor Gavin Newsom and what I hear from you how do you evaluate Governor Brown in terms of what he has accomplished or what he has not accomplished or what is left to be and what's left undone and what needs to be done toll free number you can join us that is 866-733-6786 Feel free to do that at 866-733-6786 or e-mail us form of k.q.e.d. Dot org Or go to our website k.q.e.d. Dot org slash form click on the segment or tweet us our Twitter handles at k.q.e.d. Forum. Craigmillar I'm Michael Krasny and tonight's forum rebroadcast will continue after a look at Bay Area traffic Here's Ted Anthony right in a good evening to you as you approach the Dumbarton Bridge from the West Side and this is eastbound 84 right near University Avenue it's a stolen vehicle block in the left lane so just make your drive to the right hopefully to avoid that there is some overnight road to work 1st off as you travel out of Concord northbound 680 from Haile 4 to Marina Vista in Martinez down to just a couple of lanes until around 5 o'clock in the morning also there's East Bay Road work in Richmond East 84 McDonald Avenue over towards Highway 42 right lanes closed until 5 am I'm told Anthony or key q.e.d. By Un-Band dot org. Thousands of coal miners suffer from black lung disease a fatal condition caused by breathing toxic dust a new n.p.r. News investigation shows that their deaths went unchecked by businesses and regulators who knew the risks and failed to act despite the warnings why was this allowed to happen next time on want to hey. Coming up at 11 o'clock support for k.q.e.d. Comes from the Mercury News presenting we should look 2018 this holiday season we spoke 2018 will eliminate the stories of friends and neighbors in need more information is available at. Book dot Mercury News dot com and from Presidio bank a community bank that partners with businesses and non-profits throughout the Bay Area to help improve the communities in which families work and live Presidio bank the business bank that works the next storm will arrive Thursday night bringing some light rain to the Bay area mainly in the North Bay drying trend will return Friday and through the weekend the forecast high for San Francisco tomorrow is 58 Oakland should reach a high of 60 in San Jose expect a Thursday high of 62 Sacramento should hit a high of 56 You're listening to the former rebroadcast on k.q.e.d. 88.5 San Francisco. 89.3 North Highland Sacramento it's 1031. And. This is for a moment across new We're talking about Governor Brown's legacy as he leaves office and is succeeded by Gavin Newsome and there is a lot to talk about here and indeed we'd welcome your calls and e-mails and we'll go to them as quickly as we can we've got Craig Miller here in studio science editor for k.q.e.d. And resell our go said Scott Shafer from the Political Desk are also with us and Scott was talking about Governor Ryan's achievements on the environmental front and there are many I was just thinking about how to extend a cap and trade how he got a recent bill through just requiring carbon free electricity in California by 2045 I mean the list goes on about 100 cars and clean energy by 2045 Yeah but then you know the l.a. Times says World Climate Change Yeah but it was nothing and we get this kind of criticism about fracking still with us an oil drilling and so forth. So mixed Then you is a mixed legacy Yeah but I think on balance you have to give him credit I mean he was out there for farther and further and I think just about any other leader of his time on this front you know he did manage to extend that to the states cap and trade system you know which is a pay to pollute system that's a design to reduce carbon emissions he had his very ambitious targets for getting electric cars on the road just mentioned 100 percent clean energy by by 2045 once the entire state to be 0 net carbon meaning in putting out fewer emissions you know that. They basically negative emissions if possible also by 2045 and even you know at the conclusion of his global climate summit you know reiterating a theme from his 1st term saying you know we're going to launch our own damn satellite you know which will also you know help with climate research and response to we'll see we'll see if that pans out talk about the Delta tunnel the leader Chris I mean where does that fit into the scheme of his legacy so-called I think that underneath it all Jerry Brown likes the idea of being a builder like his dad his father when he was governor built the California Aqueduct you know which is it actually it's officially named the Edmund g. Brown California Aqueduct Jerry wants to finish the job by completing these tunnels that would shuttle water from the Sacramento River through the delta. Touting you know environmental benefits that are very also very controversial and he also has this high speed rail project you know which he sees as a climate initiative to getting him which is detractors call the train to nowhere then both of these projects I think have real question marks as he leaves office well we're going to have to evaluate that here from our listeners Scott you want to talk about the tolls on high speed rail and the politics Well I think you know these are 2 things that are clearly unfinished he was asked about that at the 2nd a Press Club yesterday any you know sort of with a twinkle and as I said we'll get built but I think ave some coming in as the next governor is going to take a hard look at. Especially at the high speed rail which has been plagued by huge cost overruns and a lack of any federal or private funding which was and to support it I mean the voters approved only some thing was 10000000000 dollars in bonds but the cost is far greater than that I think what Gavin Newsome is probably going to do is build a portion between the Central Valley and Silicon Valley which will link jobs with a place that has relatively affordable housing and then see if he can get maybe more money down the line but I don't think he's going to be as wedded to it certainly is Jerry Brown was and Craig can speak to this more about a lot of the cap and trade revenue has been used to fund to keep that high speed rail alive right and whether or not the next governor will do that will we'll see you know as far as the tunnels go yeah you may recall when he was governor the 1st time that peripheral canal was on the ballot it was defeated you know any time you talk about bringing water from the north to the south you're going to Gore a lot of people's boxes if that's phrase I can hear that is. So it's it oh it's always a heavy lift and yeah he's not going to be going to leave office without it being done that said and you know again Craig can speak to this more than there is still a problem that needs to be solved with the ecosystem in the delta and I want to bring another caller on and that sort of Fraser from Richmond joining us here on the air Good morning. I actually have science ever used to do with one of the things about climate change but it hasn't been addressed but we're going to get more of these big fires big events so events like the Paradise the campfire is going to potentially leave communities really vulnerable and then after the fact how do they recover and I'd like to get some feedback from you all. Brown in the legislatures response in holding p.g. Any responsible or alternatively just not holding him responsible at all and what that's going to mean for these rural communities that might continue to be affected by p.g. Man's facilities to many Thank you thank you important question Fraser I'm going to go right to Marie So this is tailor made for her. Yeah I mean I'm there's a lot in there so I will say I'll start with p.j. Any you know the governor has had a pretty close relationship with I think. Well that's a debatable question he has been very generous The Fugitive I think you could argue I think he's had a close relationship with the regulators at the p.c. Which he appointed he stood by Michael Peavy the former president even after there was a huge questions raised about his cosiness with p.j. Me and other utility is which did ultimately lead to him finally leaving Michael picker the current head of the u.c. I think has been on balance a little better but you know I think that this is a really tough question and it is one that is going to confront Gavin Newsom probably immediately as he comes in we haven't come up with a good solution in terms of figuring out both completely how to prevent these electrical wildfires which we know they sparked many over a dozen last year we still don't know officially what caused the the fire in paradise or what caused the biggest fire 2017 in the north bay the tubs fire but there's a lot of indications that it could have been p.g. Any and so I think the legislature is going to continue grappling with us and there are a lot of people out there who really do feel like law. Brown has been sort of too permissive with them and too close with them. I don't know that you know there's any love lost specifically in terms of like I don't think he's best friends with their c.e.o. But it's been a challenging question it will continue to be in terms of the bigger question of wildfires and Prevention I want to play a cut of something he talked about yesterday and then and then I can talk a little bit about what's happened under his administration we've pushed way beyond what other states can even imagine and we have to go even further and I agree with that so no I'm not satisfied at all we're on the road to disaster the fires these fires didn't happen. When I was younger 20 years ago and we hear more of them we're going to get more drought more fires more destruction and we better start controlling it. So I mean I think that's interesting and he actually hit on something I've been really thinking about which is not even 20 years ago I mean 10 years ago I remember as a reporter if a fire burned a single home or killed a single person it was a huge story now in paradise I mean we have some around 90 people dead you know we've seen just hundreds of thousands of acres thousands of homes scorched both in the north and south parts of the state I mean so I think the p.g.a. Any telly question is a big question and it's part of it but there's also much broader questions about our preparedness where we've built how we've built in those places whether the you know the communities like paradise should rebuild which are is a really hard question to pose to people who are suffering such a loss there is forest management and I think that the legislature and the governor did try to get to some of this with a special committee at the end of session this year and a pretty sweeping bill that handled you know giving billions of dollars to you know more forest thinning and things like that that did deal with some of the liability questions at least for the 27000 fires in p.g. And e. In trying to make homeowners whole but it really I think is something that despite all of Brown's efforts around climate change has you know just come to the forefront unfortunately in the last 2 years in a way we've never seen before and there's no one answer and this is a very special brings up a major question about his executive abilities it's always easy for people on the sidelines to talk about executives in governance and just how effective they are in terms of how they respond under crises but that's a big question with respect to Jerry Broner I mean we had welfare as we had drought and his response in many people's minds was extraordinary and certainly fulfill the duties of a governor in many people's minds it was one thing. Yeah and I mean I think it's it is one of those things where a lot of times you know you there are things that you as an executive get to sort of push a part of your agenda and and have ownership over and kind of make the narrative run and then there's things like the disasters that happen and maybe they should have seen this coming maybe more should have been done I mean I personally think a lot of the questions that we are posing right now are not just questions for the governor although I absolutely think that the next governor needs to take perhaps even more of a leadership role than Jerry Brown has in this area but you know we have a an enormous amount of power that rests in the hands of local governments who are the ones that decide where people can build and how you know p.g. Any To be fair to them I mean on the one hand I don't think it's I think it's fair to say has not kept up their equipment maybe have not been held to the standards that they need to be by the state and state regulators on the other hand you know when they are told we need you to provide power to a house in an area that maybe isn't the safest place to build they have to do it and so I think that this is really a moment where California collectively is going to have to come together and really answer some tough questions and you know maybe Brown should have been a little more proactive in the last couple years at starting this conversation and Michael if I can just add I think I incoming governor Newsome I wouldn't be surprised to see a special session of the legislature focusing on wildfires to begin to take a more comprehensive and proactive look at some of these questions obviously the wildfires have laid bare You know some of the issues around the utility lines where we're building housing forest management as Maurice's said and you know it would be a fairly unifying I think kind of issue to try to tackle right out of the gate for me on I think literally hard to do that a lot of federal care about yeah yeah let me go back to you Craig Miller since I mentioned drugs do you feel the pro the governor's record is in terms of water Yeah well you know this goes right to his climate agenda because the forecast is for a longer more severe drought sent a. Recent report projecting a 79 percent reduction in the Sierra snowpack by the end of the center. Sheree and he you remember he famously stood in a mountain meadow about 7000 feet up in the Sierras in 2015 you know when there was no snow for the April survey you know and that's when he really kind of a brought the hammer down and and and put all of these in drought emergency measures into place but also something that's easy to forget too is that a couple of years ago when California for decades was the only state in the country that had virtually no regulation of its ground water which is such a key you know part of our resource and as has been badly you know over overdrawn and abused and at least on his watch for the 1st time a law got put on the sustainable ground water management act. Now that was also criticized because it's kind of slow to unfold as a 20 year process put into place to really get to the point where we're regulating the groundwater but at least it happened which was a major breakthrough and you know Scott it occurs to me that when we talk about government runs legacy and all that he's done and all that in many people's minds he still needs to be done or he didn't do or didn't accomplish is over California has really become identified as a resistance state against a trump administration and that has a lot to do with Terry Breaux. It does but I think it has just as much to do with others including former state Senate president Kevin dully own who really pushed sanctuary state legislation s.b. 54 and Javier Basara the attorney general agree filed her 40 lawsuits against the trump of ministration on a wide range of issues including immigration and I think you know you're seeing you'll be seeing you know the next Governor Gavin Newsom just picking right up where Trump left off I think or where her Jerry Brown left off but I think you know the governor also is mindful that you have to pick your fights you can't be criticizing the president every day because there is you never know when there's going to be a day when you need to pick up the phone and ask for federal money for wildfires earthquake disasters whatever it might be and so I think Jerry Brown has tried to modulator out a little bit pick his fights on climate change occasionally on immigration and health care but while also maintaining you know an open line of communication with the White House I've never seen Governor Brown or his successor Governor elect Newsome look so uncomfortable is standing there and what Donald Trump called pleasure California obviously talking about well and sort of and saying that he that climate change is not manmade you know I just think they were their lips were bleeding from being bitten Probably but that's part of the resistance I'm talking about I mean Craig you know he stuck his neck out in some people's minds by standing up in Paris and the Paris accord the way he did and going to Paris when Trump wouldn't go going to the Vatican and going to they're going to the Vatican and again leading this kind of or are the resistance of subnational organizations which he really grew that you know into a major force. And he was in an awkward position because he did use some some of the strongest language I've heard against the top administration calling some of the actions criminal and stupid and and yet in the midst of these fires he had to kind of go to the White House sort of hat in hand and say we're going to need your help on this and he got that help but it did put him in an awkward position. For general bring more of our callers aboard here or if you're just joining us we're talking about Governor Brown's legacy as he leaves the governorship and trend you're on Trent Good morning. Good morning Michael thanks for taking my call I think one of the things that's not talked about enough is the lack of leadership around child poverty and homelessness from the brown ministration the Governor Brown for child poverty in California still those between 20 wanted 23 percent which is the highest in the nation top 3 and homelessness is now exploded in communities across the state not Severus is going nuts and well senseless but Orange County said it was a Oakland throughout California increased significantly in the last 8 years and really there's been a lack of state leadership in those 2 areas Mersa put away the idea you know I think that this is one of those things that. There's a lot of truth to what the caller saying I think that you know we saw very deep cuts and one of the things that you know voters have done in California over the years is really limit where the legislature and governor have sort of flexibility in terms of spending so you know schools for example are always 1st in line and I'm for about 40 percent of the general fund and I think that because of that when there had to be cuts a it's easier to look to some of these programs that are not you know what you might call in the federal government kind of entitlements places where you like the spending is automatic and then also I think that there's some truth to the fact that Jerry Brown has you know he didn't have a family he didn't raise a family he I don't think has ever struggled financially himself and I think that even you know there is some hope among folks like the caller that the new governor will have a different approach to this given his own background I mean his dad was a judge but his mom who really raised him work several jobs as a kid he has 4 kids he's talked more about this issue and linking it to the sort of broader challenges the state has. And I think you know there's a lot of excitement among people that maybe this will be something that will get a lot more attention than it is in the Jerry Brown did yesterday just talk about the crowd the link between criminal justice he was asked and I thought Sacramento Press Club event what he didn't get to any talked about this issue of poverty and how many sort of criminal problems come out of poverty around child abuse and around neglect and things like that and so I do wonder if you know if it is something that he wishes he had kind of got to more well I would just add to that although I agree with Trent that hasn't been a priority for him so much but he California under Jerry Brown expanded v.a. Ca and eligibility for Medicaid or what we call Medicare I think something like a 3rd of Californians are now on government funded health care which is a huge number of people he also signed legislation raising the minimum wage in California something I don't think he necessarily would have done on his own I think and I think that sort of points to what Maurice would say is that you know I don't think Jerry Brown in general feels that government is the solution to all problems including housing and homelessness and poverty I think you feels are things the government can do but it's not just government alone and let me get another caller board here and Bill thank you for waiting you're on the air. Bill are you there yes sir high just sort of continuing that conversation I mean I isso them see Jerry Brown going to a public school conference k. Through 12 and highlighting how great California is doing it feels both underfunded and doesn't feel as if you expect priority at all to try to deal with the public schools and the quality of education the public school Bill thanks for that I want to read a comment in fact that dovetails with that and go to you Scott this is Aaron writes As a teacher I appreciate the effort he led during the greatest recession to ensure that schools receive the funding they needed to prevent a massive number of layoffs and program cuts however an important part of this effort is the district's except the gender liability a greater liability seizing with pensions while it seems a school districts are receiving more money they really aren't because they have to pay more for pensions. That is very true and I think that's an issue not just for school districts but for local governments as well it's one of those big and dealt with issues and it's not just cherry Brown who hasn't dealt with it and he's tried I think to put more state money into the liability of you know unfunded portion of the state's liability which is huge when it comes to portions but you know he also as we talk to them about he limited redevelopment agencies thinking that some of that money should have been going was being taken away from school districts when he's also a big supporter of charter schools which I know is controversial although he you know he didn't it's interesting I was talking to somebody on the charter school side of things who you know they saw Jerry Brown as a backstop against potentially a more liberal legislature but they didn't really have to call on him I mean I would say the biggest thing he did around k. Through 12 was this Local Control Funding Formula where he shifted some of the sort of responsibility for deciding how to allocate money to school districts I'm sure that's an oversimplification of a very complicated policy thing but I think the jury's still out on how successful that's me and whether districts are really being held accountable but it does fit with his sort of philosophy that moving government closer to the people will make it more effective and we saw that on criminal justice realignment health care realignment and so it is you know that was one thing he tackled but I agree I mean again I don't think that that you know I think climate change and criminal justice really took a lot of his political capital just to add I think that local funding formula Merissa I mentioned it does give additional funding to school districts that have low income kids kids who are foster care come from foster care backgrounds immigrant families English is a 2nd Language School Lunch extra money for kids that are on school lunch program so it does it did try to redirect some additional funds to some of those lower income. School districts that maybe didn't get the attention that they should pay they need let me go back to you Craig Miller with a comment from a listener says this is. Cecil if Yuri Brown left the environment better why was l.a. Smaug the worse it has been in 20 years in the months before the Woolsey fires Jerry Brown is no environmentalist. I'm not sure I can answer that question directly you know it's interesting that smog and climate and you know carbon emissions are 2 very different things and his 1st administration Smaug was the focus and the reason for a lot of environmental action because of climate change wasn't really on the radar yet but now the focus has been on you know eliminating global warming emissions when you do that you usually also get benefits and reduction of smog but there are a lot more cars owners 40000000 cars on the road in California and most of them are still burning gasoline then Scott here's David who says the idea that Jerry Brown left California in great financial condition is a myth he turned what could have been a fission a reasonable high speed rail program into a boondoggle that will dwarf any alleged budget surplus that exists. Well I think those are 2 different issues I mean I don't think you can blame high speed rail I mean high speed rail is good what it isn't it preceded enough and it's not the general fund he has used cap and trade money for that but you know I think whatever you like or don't like and there are many things not to like about the current high speed rail project he didn't create that and you know I think it's dwarfed by the surplus and the rainy day fund that's been created while he was governor in the relatively good fiscal outlook that California has and there's Kristen Kristen you're on with us good morning you good morning I want to comment on mental health and disability I think it Cary Grant has had a really mixed record on that he is certainly expanded Medicaid but he has been. Really kind of ignoring of the significant mental health and disability issues and he's done extremely deep cuts in. In disability funding and has seemed to have a little bit too cozy of a relationship with insurance companies who want to come a merciless. Yeah I mean I think that this sort of fits with some of the other criticisms we've heard around everything from p.j. Any to you know childhood poverty. I think you know Brown has had to balance a lot of different priorities as any governor does and again you know when he came any of this huge deficit I think it would have been a different story perhaps if he came in to office the way. Gavin Newsome is but there's also challenges there and you know I mean it's always everybody goes back right to his his whole trip about having a little bit left paddling all of to the right I mean he talked about all of this yesterday you know why do you think that there are certain interest groups that maybe didn't have his ear in the same way as others but you also do you have to remember the where we were 8 years ago financially and just that everything in state government was getting decimated I think the question becomes once you've started rebuilding where you know where did Jerry Brown put his priorities and I think there's a lot of groups out there that are rightfully upset that those areas were not well in light of the kind of criticisms coming in let me read a comment from David who writes I'm a 40 year resident of Silicon Valley a lonely Republican I lived through Governor Moonbeam 1st 10 years so my familiarity with the man goes back many decades he has earned my respect not to say I always agree with him but his courage and force a borne of intelligent analysis are extremely rare in today's politics I would vote for President movie in a heartbeat. I want to bring us more callers before I do you have any idea what is going to be doing next. And he says going back to Colusa and kind of stepping aside in many ways here well yes stepping aside because he has to leave office but you know but he could still be you know I mean Barbara Boxer still using the podium and so an absolutely no absolute Yeah no I don't think he would like I said at the beginning he resists the word retirement I think he just thinks this is the next chapter and said of the state Capitol Hill be you know at his ranch up includes But I know that we did talk with him about that any mention among the things he mentioned is that I'll be going back East he's gotten involved he's chairman of the organization that brings us the annual doomsday clock and when I asked him about what he was going to do next you talked a little bit about that you know where you're going to hear Scott segment interview we've been talking about we're going to be going well I'm starting to unveil the clock that is put out by the book of Atomic Scientists and they will tell us how close to midnight Are we on the Doomsday Clock which means how close are we to the end of the world so that's important that's important work to try to wake people up and I hope to meet with members of the Senate and the house and get a greater awareness and we're going to deal with the nuclear threat and then I'm also going to be working on on climate issues and then probably prison reform and. Well you should be reminding us of what lies ahead maybe in the wake of doom and potential doom but there's a saying that needs to be done by somebody of many people regard as a kind of moral speaking. You know I was going to plug your interview Scott it's an exit interview that Scott Shafer did with Governor Brown and political breakdown and you can hear it tomorrow at 6 30 pm on k.q.e.d. Radio and on k.q.e.d. Newsroom and k.q.e.d. T.v. On Friday at 7 and let's see if it was just like let me just say there those are actually 2 different interviews Maurice and I talked with him for political breakdown that will air tomorrow night at 630 a very different kind of interview much more personal kind of a fun interview I think to talking with him about among other things the car he and his wife Ann are going to be buying soon and then it Newsroom will be on yeah that will be out from kind of car they buying well will be a hybrid I think yeah but you know he hasn't driven he hasn't driven in a very few so I think his wife will probably be doing most of the hard charging stations of our callers accounting No I don't you know Frank said it best we're going to mean a lot of we're going to miss Jerry Brown goes without saying I think but I just said it because it's true Mercer you're going to say somebody sorry oh yeah I was a surprise yeah correct but he did so didn't say electric car but I think you're right I think it's a little harder to plug an on air and you're very liberal ranch and you know I think you're right Michael I do think that no matter what your politics are what you think about him as somebody who's covered the governor for his entire time in office I do I will miss his philosophical ramblings he is. He's even the person in the world of politics and I think. He's always challenged all of us in a lot of ways you know actually and that'll be there's nobody like Jerry Brown I have had conversations with him about Sartre and Heidegger and how many politicians can you talk to about Carter Heidegger Thank you all this is been a very good assessment and I appreciate the work you all do and the work you'll continue to do with the new administration Staci for racial Lagos' from California politics and government desk Greg Miller science editor k.q.e.d. . Another hour ahead with Adam Hochschild space 2 for that I'm Michael Krasny. Funds for the production of forum are provided by the members of k.q.e.d. Public Radio and the John Monaco's Foundation and the generosity foundation and beyond sram and Maria Monetti sram founders of the Minetti sram Museum of Art at u.c. Davis which preserves the legacy of renown artists such as Wayne tipo for future innovators by dedicating a 3rd of its space to arts education support for k.q.e.d. Comes from glide in San Francisco with over 50 years on the front lines of poverty and social justice and now building a next generation of services designed to move the most vulnerable from crisis to self-sufficiency glide dot org And from European sleep works the story that bases its design and materials on research factors affecting sleep including comfort and support humidity levels and ease of breathing and details online about their mattresses and bedding at sleep Works dot com Check Please Bay Area may have found the best places to dine for adults but what about kids less Lisa Bracco will meet with some of the Bay Area's brightest young foodies to find out what they recommend watch a new episode of check please Bay Area kids Thursday night at 730 on k.q.e.d. Public television 9. The San Francisco one k.-q we are in North Highlands Sacramento. Lung Disease is a common risk of coal mining but this risk is getting worse partly because the miners are not getting the protection they deserve from. N.p.r. In Washington this is one and. I'm Joshua Johnson today on a coal miners and black lung disease the particles inside a mine are like a cheese grater on your lungs tearing them up until they can barely inflate a new investigation from n.p.r. News shows that mining companies and regulators are not doing their part to protect these workers some parts of America are not ready to give up full power yet and miners say they take pride in their work consider how things got this bad in coal country and we'll meet a retired miner who's running out of options to save his life we'd love to hear from you comments on our Facebook page or tweet us at. From k.q.e.d. News I'm Jeremy Siegel a local watchdog for migrant children in government custody is applauding the reversal yesterday of a federal policy that delayed the release of kids to their families k.q.e.d. Is funny the job allowed Romero reports a u.s. Office of Refugee Resettlement holds almost $15000.00 unaccompanied minors in shelters $400.00 of the kids in California in June the agency began fingerprinting potential sponsors and everyone in their household now or are admitted that was a necessary keeping kids in shelters longer and so the hope is that more children will be released to the Will family more quickly Holly Cooper could direct the u.c. Davis immigration law clinic the additional hope on top of that is that children will have less like logical trauma the agency will keep thing or printing sponsor's n.p.r. Reports 2000 children are ready to be released and study that divide at home and Ok q.e.d. News San Francisco mayor London breed is asking Governor Jerry Brown to commute the prison sentence of her brother Napoleon Brown has served nearly 20 of his 44 year sentence in state prison for a manslaughter conviction in 2000 says her family's story is not unique and the letter is consistent with her state positions on criminal justice reform as someone who has been an advocate for criminal justice reform and for supporting and writing letters for other people I wanted to do what I felt was the right thing to do Governor Brown has issued more than 1200 pardons and commutations in his last 2 terms far more than his recent predecessors Marin County has installed 6 high definition cameras aimed at detecting wildfires the new cameras which were paid for by p.g. And e. Will replace old ones installed in 2014 Marine County fire chief Mark Brown says the move will help firefighters quickly locate and suppress fires and help with evacuations we can see that the fire is developing in certain areas certain spread in a certain area and we can reach out to the insecure man or say what looks like the fire is spreading.