And 9 percent of all of its $2300000000.00 u.s. Trips in 201718 ended without any safety incidents a nationwide strike in France is going to ring for a 2nd day with trade unions warning it won't stop until the government scraps plan the pension reforms is expected to be for the widespread transport disruption with 90 percent of high speed trains canceled Thursday saw the country's biggest sub strikes for decades more than 800000 people joined a protest marches police fired tear gas at some demonstrations in Paris the journalist and former Nigerian presidential candidate on the yearly Solari is due in court on Friday a day after being released from 4 months in detention has to show out and is on trial for charges including treason money laundering and cyberstalking is pleaded not guilty world news from the b.b.c. . Firefighters in Australia say they're tackling about 100 far as across the state of New South Wales nearly half of them on contained Sydney has been blanketed by I think smoke all week bushfires have killed at least 6 people and destroyed a 700 homes in Australia since October Shaima Holly reports from Sydney the fires in New South Wales are expected to bring emergency warnings on Friday with heart and windy conditions fire authorities have said that 3 blazes north of Sydney have merged into what they described as a mega blaze covering more than $300000.00 had tears footage of one fire in the southern fringe of the city shows firefighters running for safety as flames surged towards them the severity of the blazes so early in the fire season has caused alarm and prompted more calls for action to tackle climate change so far the government has consistently refused to be drawn on the climate change debate. As Dominique of her brain has to go to the polls in a general election the prime minister of the Caribbean island has accused the opposition of fueling violence was carried was speaking after sporadic on West during which burning barricades were erected on roads and shops were looted the authorities in central Mexico are searching for gunmen who kidnapped more than 20 people from a rehab center for drug addicts officials in this state of one a honcho told journalists that 13 people had been freed some of whom had been injured but many were still missing a British woman who was revived by Spanish doctors after suffering a cardiac arrest of that lasted 6 hours has described her survival as miraculous Audrey Schoolman who was 30 full fell unconscious when she was hiking in the Pyrenees in a snow storm by the time rescuers arrived her body temperature at a full into hot off the normal level that's the latest b.b.c. News. This is the real story from the b.b.c. World Service with me Julia Morcha. For this rap song is a passionate call to save the forests the rivers and the mountains of eastern Siberia it's sung in everything an indigenous language from that part of the world as the environment on their traditional lands is under threat their traditional lifestyle of herding reindeer is disappearing events like Indigenous people all over the world leave their villages and move to the big cities and their language is falling out of use it's now considered to be one of the endangered languages out of around $7000.00 languages spoken around the world today around 2000 are spoken by fewer than $1000.00 speakers and so they are heading for extinction these are indigenous languages spoken in small tribes and ethnic groups scattered around the planet do they matter well the u.n. Believes they do it is declared 2019 the year of indigenous languages in order to raise awareness all of them but the question in practical terms is are thousands of languages worth saving had at what cost and since it is clearly impossible to save every single $1.00 of them which ones should we prioritize we'll have 3 guests with me today to discuss this Alexander Savelli Effie's or Russian linguist at a native speaker at Uva she is an indigenous language from the area around the Volga River and he joins us from Moscow on Xander welcome. Hello my pleasure to attend perhaps you should say hello to is into that. Whole hour Vanny Thank you Rose a 1000000 is a French linguist and a native Bret on speaker founder of the Soros Soros website Rosanne Welcome to the program thank you and a word in Bret or perhaps from you looking forward to going to the program is that going to happen either the one day if you don't have a good look. Thank you for that a professor Barbara Meek is an expert in the indigenous languages of North America at the University of Michigan Barbara welcome write that you can choose your language or would you wish to say hello I suspect. Then that. You do before we get your thoughts on the basic question that we're posing today let's hear from the composer of that song that we heard a few moments ago he's called Alexander Constantine off he's a musician and an ethnic ever and he lives in your coat that's a large city in Eastern Siberia and I began by asking you our event. I think that you were in that a lot of. Events I don't know magic people as far as I know we've been around for over 2000 years and originally came from China there are about 35000 francs a most of them live in China over there they speak our language in Russia we also are trying to keep our language growing those of us who lead a traditional lifestyle still speak event how did you learn the language yourself that's since I was a school boy at the age of 15 I began to spend my summers with my uncle who's a dear herder my older brother also works for him heading there among the people that we have some elders who were fluent speakers and I learned the language from them there how to still use our native language and thanks to them I had a chance to speak it and how much do you speak everything now just at the moment I speak of rank only when I work on songs in our own. Which I live in a large city and I don't often have a chance to practice the Frank is your fear the event might disappear in the end that's what I think yes Me personally I think this might happen but our elders have a plan. To create our own community in Russia the state offers all volunteers a plot of land for cultivation but we want all of x. To claim that flocks are now traditional area next to each other so that we the community somewhere in the Far East and why is it so important to you to preserve the language but the most that it's often said that if there's no language there's no people I completely agree we have a saying if there's a deer there's no rank if there's no dear there's never a thanks but it's not exactly true because not all events are dear here it is however the other side and if there's no language there's no people is exactly true if you know your language you know every young. Women player that's. Just you. Know forced to give up for their children Alexander constant his music and his language that last quote from him if you know your language you know who you are. Is that at the center of this debate this is all about identity a lot of the work right happening with 1st nations in the Yukon Territory I mean that's the motto for language revitalisation in the Yukon. And clearly for the people who to still speak that language however few of them there are that point about identity is absolutely crucial Yes it's one of the primary motivating factor is even in the United States a lot of tribes now at various stages of language use and knowledge right I've been e-mailing which is back in part because the youth are trying to find or really learn reconnect with their heritage I'm Xander Savelli if I don't know what your sentiments were when you heard our event speaker what came to mind for you well I felt very glad about it because you know different minority groups in Russia tried to create a new urban culture and of course ref music is a good example of urban culture and for example my group of that you watch people also try to create revenue Zick and it's a good news that the event is because of work and that their action but if so few people speak that language and the lifestyle of those speakers is inevitably disappearing because if you've done what I like Zander does you move from the rural area to the big city your quotes going to his case where he's not going to speak event very much given that is it really worth trying to save a language like that. Well I think we should realize that different minority languages across the world are in different situations depending on their historical background political and economical background on the one hand and here in Russia we have such languages as for example top of the language shelf. With millions of speakers with their relative a high official status and recover mission and with well developed urban culture which is crucial for language survival in the modern world and with a long history and rich experience and language activism and on the other hand who have languages whose social situation is still bad that would be extremely difficult to say of them of course and it's clear that we will lose manual languages during their 21st century but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't even try to save all the endangered languages I don't think so because 1st even if we assume that a language will not survive it's still matters whether the speakers of minority languages can feel comfortable about using their languages freely about supporting their identity because after all it's evolved the quality of life and the valve the human rights and 2nd each language is unique as it's contributing to the world culture and each language is extremely important not only for linguistics about also for are they couldn't it disciplines and the longer it will can support the linguistic diversity across the world the more we will be able to learn about the world leaving and about ourselves so in Malin let me pick up the point that I was on the Made a moment ago that we should try and save the ones that we care and say but inevitably some are going to die is that roughly where you are. There is a very present help in representing the welfare worker a very very clear print. That the right be as many as 50 percent of them which could die before the end of the century fill up your sleeve we're not going to be able to say yes' every single language but it is still important to try and save as many as we can and as much knowledge as we care of those languages and that is linguistic diversity is in itself a very important thing to be is really a very important to say for any kind of study 1st to see because still individuals who meet cultural and linguistic diversity as much as they need biological diversity if you just try to imagine a world where everybody would speak the same language which would be either you know trying to use or English or Spanish and then we would of we would all think the same and fans react the same have the same ideas live the same way and it would be a terrible world bobber make in terms of deciding which languages people should be actively seeking to present and which others say perhaps sadly acknowledge they cannot do that how can that decision be a right dud. Maybe the question is more who who gets to decide well yeah. And who should get to decide you think yes I mean starkly when we look back right a lot of the languages that we have labrat documentation for you know was decided on by the colonisers of the Americans and not so much of the indigenous people today people are going back and using these resources and taking control of their their linguistic resources their social resources and moving them into the future I mean there's some research showing that the more involved indigenous people are in reclaiming their language and their cultures is also resulting in the reclaiming of their well being and just health and generally which has been one of at least in the Americas a huge issue and also rose in the last post that plays into the the argument that says some of these languages are dying out naturally because of people's changing lifestyles perhaps going back to where we began but others are dying out because they are forcibly being driven to extinction to just you recognize that dividing line I think that you could say that nobody has abandoned their own rank waves out of well you know even if they are really pushed to do it I mean where I come from where I live if and records we have a I want a language press on my parents' devastates any time you would a French before they went to school or parents that they know where the score for speaking their language they were neither spent enough of their language they were told that their language and their culture were good there was just passed since there were 6 some to take things with just you know good for nothing and they want me to believe in school so I asked if they once it's only a part of the real world going to have a chance to survive and have a chance to give their own children a better if a better life if I don't get out of poverty the basis of. Crerand Well you know nobody could have gotten on their having been through half of the credit crowd but pretty well so far and a committee of course through. The little black friends 4th quarter we had you know we think purple garnets Bob or make it when you look at other examples do you see that kind of past history coming through of people feeling that they had to make the change to the more common language because they really didn't feel they had a great deal of choice very much so I mean even in my own family my grandfather who listened to my house called mornings well on and Nebraska decided that he needed to learn English and then he raised my mom and her 7 length speaking English my own gong and there's a few commands your words here and there but for the most part I mean the way that they imagine surviving in this new world where time in English or a lot of it you're listening to the real story from the b.b.c. World Service with me Julianne Moore if you're in this week we're looking at indigenous languages around the world and the arguments for trying to preserve them now not all anguishes even the ones that aren't officially endangered now are destined to survive over the next 50 years even if some languages have hundreds of thousands of speakers that doesn't necessarily mean that they are safe in September this year a prominent ethnic would Mort activist in central Russia said himself on fire in protest against a lack of support for his language that he's culture would Morty is one of Russia's indigenous languages it's related to finish what is spoken in the heart of Russia between the Volga River and the Ural Mountains it still has over 3 $100000.00 speakers it was a shocking and unprecedented event all the more so because more isn't even considered endangered in Russia but activists in the country warn that it and other indigenous languages are being rapidly marginalized limited to the countryside and used only by older people especially since 2017 when Russia cancelled mandatory school lessons of those languages in the areas where they are still spoken Alexander when you 1st heard about that story what did you think. To be honest I was shocked because many speakers of minority language in Russia feel despair we want to promote our languages but to we do not know what to do of course many of us are involved in language x. To these and we try to publish books in our language use we try to change their attitude towards our languages in the society divides the language policy promoted by the authorities and Either there is an equality in education system if Russian is much more favored as compared to for example more Tench of ours so sometimes you feel that you can do much you know to to save your language so of course many of ours felt a sort of solidarity with Professor Rozen just out of interest when that happened how much coverage of it was there in the Russian media Well it is a really interesting story because 1st there are also almost no coverage so it was only a few media foreclosed on the problem off ethnic minorities riots or Language Monitor riots and the media located in the non Russian republics had a certain coverage of the story but then something unexpected happened so many people were shocked about the self-immolation act and after that some are media based in Moscow for example published detailed text on this story and I think it was almost for the 1st time in the modern history of Russia when such a big audience heard of the problem of the survival of ethnic and that was the final recess that's interesting so do you think it will lead to any meaningful change in attitude in the future. Well I told Knowles No I don't mean the scene that crucial change you saw forcible in modern Russia unless general trends in language policy change Roseanne's 1000000 How much does that parallel with some of the attitudes that you're aware old the fact that somebody killed himself for say this is a long future for me so language I mean you know and some of the stigma points that Alexander was making it is very difficult to get out of that take my so you have overseen sort of reframed I'm always appalled to see how they're still very much ashamed of their own language and you have to really task to explain to them sat well with a race and old hierarchy between languages phone languages are quoting value you know it's not like some languages are superior to some other languages and it's all a way to make Otis influenza stand out as because they feel terrified take not line by the when she's talking how to see all those exposed every fat friend she taught me to speak and dress all in French style rings Can you imagine that the mother cannot talk to her little children in her own language when the language is something so intimate that was supposed to sift through the paintings you know and to see if they are my mother is now 86 years old and her absence French is not just as good as hers wrestle of course and my preference not as good as my French but when I talk to her and Gretel if these tell us difficult and she will 1st answers in the French because she feels carries the sick mind from time to sort of gets angry with me into the southeast Oh what are you talking wrestle so we can still talk friends like everybody else I mean why do a good English don't wrestle and in fact you know I mean she and she's talking about her own language so house to use polish a whole population to fight against their own language. This is pretty much come back to when you said something very striking a moment ago about somebody maybe you'll mother old people of her generation feeling ashamed about their own language we're just not feeling come from what has prompted that it sort of goes back to the French Revolution when the French Revolution the curse they prescribe is that to express the ideas of the resolutions that they pass to force everybody in crisis to press whereas That's her aim those be putting credits were not French speakers and so on the one hand you have this very universal grain and the like when I was asked you know if it's a young blah blah blah but then all of the other friends they were all still people so they can wrestle language which was not serious to understand those ideas and then went to school became convinced compulsory only the language the concept of in school all schools in France was present and a whole other languages were so different I mean it's just a big this are saying you can't describe that's when you 1st feel sick let's try it find that kind of teaching 1st year to the last grasp the very process this idea of on your own language bother me so I wanted to bring you in on a point that Roseanne was making a moment ago which takes us into the history and the politics of this the arrival of the nation state and how the nation state in order to grow decides that people should only speak in a certain way how how much is that part of this story do you think in the us and Canada the history of the right of trying to define who is a native person and identifying them and then trying to figure out a way to assimilate that language was targeted especially and the children of chiefs and tribes and so forth were shipped off to boarding schools that were quite a distance usually from the reservation I mean this wasn't like I was being. But overall it was great people from tribes in South Dakota were said to Carlisle in Pennsylvania right and there was very little way for them even to return home at any point my grandfather being sent to Haskell where Comanche from Oklahoma and not quite as far and you know makes it a little challenging right and you're also put in with all these other Indigenous kids you were speaking I mean we have like we have Comanche we have Cairo we have Algonquian language is Navajo even speaking with other students you know often and that resorting to using some of the right even less in order to communicate with your peers and the other point that comes out of this element of our conversation I suppose I'll Xander is the idea that if if older people feel that there is a stigma attached to speaking what was their 1st language they'll therefore not available to teach that language to the younger people who might might still want to learn it me as a speaker I'm a good example of this policy because what sets about the relationship between a mother and a child in terms of the language of the native language that's exactly my story because my parents are both native speakers to wash they lived in a trash village when they were young and then they moved to a town and then my older brother went to school and if you try to use to wash language and other children left and then my parents decided no so we have another son and we will not teach him because we want a better future for him so that's why my mother and my father has what one language and I don't know that that language I have I had only I said knowledge of this language when I was a child and since only my fly in my life maybe when I was 8 year old I became very interested in this language exactly for that reason because I just felt very unhappy about the situation. And I started. And now I am a sort of native speaker invites this feeling the feeling that I cannot speak the language of my parents in the same way as they do it is very uncomfortable and that I think that many speakers of my notes and just in Russia feel the same Thank you very much all of you for the time being we have to take short break now but you will talk more in the next half of the program just to remind you please do let us know what you think of the program or if you have any ideas or topics that you would like us to look into you can e-mail us at our e-mail address which is the real story at b.b.c. Dot c. O. Don't you k. And if you enjoy the program we have a podcast that you can subscribe to just search for b.b.c. The real story in your podcast at distribution of the b.b.c. 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Coming up on the real story in the next half hour we continue our debate about the future of some of the world's least known and least spoken languages during this the UN's year of indigenous language to preserve a minority language can be at the expense of the majority he's worried his business might suffer and so to the education of young children so where should the line be drawn That's after a summary of the latest news be receiving news with a new year only one as for man accused of the rape and murder of a woman in the Indian city of Hydrabad have been shot dead by police officers said they killed of the suspects in the early hours of Friday when they tried to scrape the right victim's father thank you Fishel for want he called speedy justice for murder prompted outrage and the protests across India the right hailing for over has for the 1st time published figures revealing how many sexual assaults were reported by people using it services in the us there were more than 3000 last year over says drivers are the victims of attacks as often as cost him as firefighters in Australia say they are tackling about 100 fires across the state of New South Wales they say several of the most serious have combined to create what they describe as a mega blaze the journalist and former Nigerian presidential candidate on the yearly show already is due in court on Friday after he was released from 4 months in detention and if this were a faces charges including treason and money laundering which he denies. The Director of Public Prosecutions in Kenya has ordered the arrest of the governor of Nairobi County Mike Sancho on suspicion of corruption with his own go is accused of money laundering and on multiple acquisition of public property the German chancellor Angela Merkel is about to make her 1st visit to the site of the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz and Poland she will take part in a ceremony with the Polish prime minister and the survivor of the camp a British hiker has made a full recovery after her heart stopped beating for 6 hours she had been walking in the Spanish mountains when she developed hypothermia which doctors say helped stop her brain from being starved of oxygen b.b.c. World news. You're listening to the real story from the b.b.c. World Service with me Julia more of her in this week we're looking at endangered languages and the loss of language diversity around the world with me Alexander severely of a Russian linguist and native speaker at Uva she's an indigenous language from the area around the Volga River and Xander is in Moscow resident Millan is a French linguist and a native brought on speaker and Professor Barbara Meek is an expert in the indigenous languages of North America at the University of Michigan Now earlier in the program we discussed endangered languages and how some could be extinct within 50 years but now to a situation when an endangered language makes something of a comeback we're talking Welsh and here in the u.k. Welsh is considered to be a success story at the beginning of this century it was heading for extinction in 2121 percent of the population in Wales were able to speak Welsh but in 2011 that number dropped to 19 percent however a series of measures have since been taken to reverse the trend local councils and the National Assembly for Wales use Welsh issuing Welsh versions of their literature to varying degrees most roadsigns in Wales are in both English and Welsh since 2000 the teaching of Welsh has been compulsory in all schools in Wales up to the age of 16 and that's have an effect in stabilizing and reversing that decline in the language today according to the most recent annual population survey 30 percent of people in Wales have the ability to speak Welsh Not everyone though is keen on the revival of the Welsh language is the story of one English investor Bruce Robertson he's the chairman of trade go Mills that's a chain of discount stores when they opened in Wales last year he found Welsh language signs and inconvenience he complained about them in a letter leaked to the press by the Welsh language says. Well I see he didn't put up Welsh language signs in his stall and he also suggested that bilingual education was responsible for one of these employees poor spelling here is Bruce Robinson explaining his position to the B.B.C.'s Kate Crockett language in Wiles' I think it's a matter of proportionality and that there is no try just a final destination which we will arrive sooner or later it's just how we get there I think is the question what do you mean by that what kind of final destination I think I don't know what the final destination is it might be in the years ahead that Welsh becomes the 1st language I would personally cite Iraq the flat but my remaining place should I see but the government itself is sort of. The Welsh Assembly Government is possibly not even totally committed in any event so it's rather hard to predict where where it will end up but I think the most important point here is to let nature take its course and you know that let the people decide ultimately what language they would prefer to use for every time I call them. And in order for them to do that they need for example the ability to choose well well in place to some extent that's absolutely correct and which is why I just said I think it's a matter of proportionality and rather than if you like bully people into making that choice I think it is a matter of taking a proportionate approach using Welsh language where it's 100 percent appropriate and useful if you are going to blow that would believe it which is where you find someone who is being bullied Yeah. Well I think ultimately yes because he did it that there's no there's no comparisons there's no forgive me there's no there's no there's no compulsion in this yet yes I think pressure is being brought to bear on us which is possibly inappropriate it's unnecessary and I think in our own good time we will find our way as a business because remember above all else business is. Have to be responsive and whether it's a more lose for disabled facilities whatever it might be improved transactional facilities we will ultimately be responsive this witness we would be foolish not to pay now you mention in your lesson for example that you spent time in the community yes you know how many people speak Welsh in Mr Ted so. I don't know the number you're quite right I don't know that but can I tell you I have never ever heard it spoken and I frequent storms I frequent restaurants I frequent bars and I have many friends in the valley just across the right where I spent much time across 22 but actually 30 years and I don't want to study I have to tell you frankly I've never heard it spoken but don't you think it's dangerous to base assumptions on what it's purely anecdotal evidence no not so I think I think I think that's probably the best possible way because you don't mind me saying Well what about looking at the statistics I mean the statistics full message will from the 2011 census show that 8.9 percent of the population of messages will speak Welsh not 5000 people. They play but they might well and if if if if those good people you know would choose to prevail upon us to use more Welsh is not just cited and as I said in my letter in a round about why then of course we will but I mean you know you mentioned at the start that you think people have been contacting the last language commission and I think that's nothing I think one person well it's not plus possibly an example of the person who lives locally who wants to see you making more use of the Welsh language exactly what you suggested by people believe that possibly correct but at the end of the day with all due respect to Welsh speakers with all due respect to the local people and I have no lack of respect for them that's why I've invested 68000000 tyrants into having a presence in wells and create some 380 jobs immediately I'm unlikely as I say respectfully to pundits a monarchy is when trying to do the best with majorities and bear in mind please this is a start up business we have lots of the things on which mean we must focus initially amass exactly what we're doing you talk about respect common to so attention to something else in your left you draw attention to the fact that one of your staff members was unable to spell the word furniture yet you get the spelling there and you suggest that the fact that Welsh language education exists might be a reason for that now that I would suggest to you is based on absolutely nothing but prejudice and I don't mean has any prejudice in the soul if there is so it's simply an observation based on experience and it just wasn't for you I mean again I don't take my mark I did my own just finish it isn't it isn't simply whiles it's right through March on nation our country we have a real problem with education and you know for myself I just wish more time between being devoted to my education on the 3 office rather than as it was last in French and even divinity I think I probably would be a much more rounded person with that delicious had that been some focus on those key elements ones educate. When it comes to language and looking at the just cultures where having throughout the you try not simply in white males with grammar with spelling with communication Indeed I think if we could all focus on works best for everyone then I think we've got a better result in the long run I'm not for one moment should just think there isn't room for alternative language simply that we should focus on that that is the common language but then again I mean you said you didn't know how many was because they were in Minnesota you said Can't you make a comment about bilingual education where around the world statistics have been shown the have shown the advantages of being bilingual it does seem as though you've sent this letter out without stopping to look at what the actual factual situation is here in miles. No I don't think that's true at all I think I think that you're quite right to suggest that my my source of information is generally anecdotal I think that that goes to probably the majority of us and it was based on that you did say at the beginning that you think we should let nature take its course I really do you know if that meant that there was language it was to cease being spoken here in Wales What would your reaction be to that if that is what the people wanted I wouldn't cross it entirely if that is the way people want to go I think it would be misguided if again I may say Strike I don't think it would be helpful to the economy of Wiles' I don't think it would be helpful to if you like the people in the street that's a fairly However if that's the way it is but it eventually goes of course as I said at the outset we are a business we are responsive we pay well it's always to respond accordingly I mean you mentioned if that is what people want but of course there are also many many people who will see very passionately want the Welsh language to survive to thrive What about their rights what about considering that yeah we have we have a lot of people in Cornwall who have their own language to their Celts thank God just the same as the Welsh The fact of the matter is they are a minority and if the case is made I'm sure we'll hear more Cornish spoken here just as we'll here in the wilds but there is a case yet to be made for that that was Bruce Robinson who's the chairman of Trego Mills that's a chain of discount stores based in southwest England but he's been opening in Wales and that was his conversation with the B.B.C.'s take Crockett I think rather than 1000000 it was you mentioned Wales in the 1st half of the program he is a voice that says fine I'm happy to invest in Wales I'm happy to follow what people want in Wales but if I'm forced to support the promotion of the Welsh language I'm worried about the future of my business and the costs involved what would you say to them Well that was so much crap that that was. It's difficult it's not a great old wide. Web service of all when he says that this person that he mentioned was not able to stuff furniture properly all studies show that filing both children swear Africans are world class for good for Santa specifically is in their best the case and then follow the link for most kids I see it is written all the time the wrestling which of course have the kids call it friends wrestling which of course passes that term itself into prayer and then average in a friend's cell system is just I mean I don't want to pick up pronounce any surprise words for us it's not the truth well why how about this for an argument because this is I presume what Mr Robertson was getting at that if you spend time in the classroom teaching what would be regarded as a minority language that time is taken away from perfecting teaching of the majority language you can see that not the point he was making. I don't think so I mean you know we have the same arguments here in France where we do look at politicians who say oh find a link with education is no good it's a waste of crime and then it gets crammed as they are not if you wish to spend more time teaching in English or something useful or with Chinese to those camps rather than teaching that Brasil but the problem is that you don't understand that it's not just one language again for another language just one language plus another language class and then another language is almost breathless course I'm sick of talking about texts what is 1st wrestle then they have classes in press also in French and in interest and their profits place prior to me was right age 13 or 14 years old which is not the place in regular French schools you know so when you are you know as far as you know kids to go from one language to another language if you have some kind of fast capacity to do you know with many languages for many situations it helps you ordered a bunch of other singles so if this really does everything that is that how can I say false accusations that dealing with a minority language instead of teaching in the minority language is French it kept its face of the closer race but chance to preserve for Bob or me what was your reaction to what you heard from William I mean it's interesting that the one of an example of a misspelling right because it's not like monolingual speakers don't misspell words and well in my work with a lot of Aboriginal have started programs of new content where they're learning English and. French in school as well in addition to learning the indigenous language to make them incredibly adaptable in a lot of the language work that we're doing with indigenous languages and so part of it was kind of trying to use. If they'd be interested in documenting their own languages which involves reading and writing and doing things that they actually would expect to do in the classroom and they were just remarkably insightful in the actual spelling and how we might want to standardize the language you know a language that had never been written which was very exciting and not something right that you experience often with kids and I don't mean by settings I suppose the important point with that is that you would say that it was very much the students leading that rather than the being led by a teacher there on that particular road and they were better for doing it that way around Yeah I mean I mean and part of it too made growing up in hearing cask they were already attuned to kind of different sound systems a lot of monolingual English linguists have a hard time hearing like tunnel differences and specialized sounds that you find in a lot of Native American languages and these children were just doing it is if they did that every day. One of the points that Bruce Robertson was also making reference to was you know he was quite happy for this to happen if people want it to happen he wasn't saying they were stopping. But there was that sense that if the minority is almost taking precedence over the majority that there is a problem with that do you recognise that well here in Russia yes we hear this very often that a beer a matter of free choice by that point is that there is no free choice for us there is a free choice to be assimilated by the majority but there is no free choice not to be assimilated for many reasons for example intra washout there is no education system into Vice there are some schools where subjects are taught into was about these are restricted only to very few rural areas the whole territory of trash is not covered by this list and I would argue that there should be some sort of state funded support for that would you well of course it might be a solution because otherwise it's inequality me as a citizen of Russia so I am paying my taxes for public schools this course where all subjects are taught in Russian and it is on their Russian That is of the ghetto not to wash for schools where it is only the history of the Russian people is taught not the history of the people so I'm paying my taxes as a citizen and what they say instead they say well you can promote your language speak this language show your children as a sort of hobby but I don't understand why I should pay my tax this while the schools don't represent me as a citizen of Russia let me bring resent you back you know on that because this idea of of what mistakes should provide is interesting because going back to what Mr Robertson was saying I know you weren't a big fan of his analysis of spelling problems but the other point he made was about the idea that if you're a business person and you want to invest a lot of money into a particular area it's going to cost you a lot of money to follow some of the rules that he was not happy with and as a result potential investors in that area might be put off from going there at all does does he have a point. Well I 1st let me say that I really totally agree with what that expenses as then minority language areas of the speakers are also taxpayers and as such they deserve some respect urns of talking about the well situation which is the same as situations all over the well probably so much money and energy have since learned to kill all of those languages it has just tested that money and energy What's The Also parents to bring them back to you know it's a situation and it's a match up justice and equality so if you have to focus come from outside the communities and one please post it was well how can I say if you go to the pattern and try to do business in Japan you try to adapt to Japanese people if you go to wave since Pride to do business in Europe you also have to adapt to the Welsh people. And then there is another point that I would like to make which is that if we want to saying selecting with some signs versity it's not going to happen just by you know buying out of the powers of the Holy Spirit you have to work for it but I think the point then raising taxes how many languages and how much money because at some point you have to say a lot has to be drilled. Yes but if there is a if the people of are given community the language if those people want language to have a real place in society it should be given to them and you know you see all those politicians who say oh yes they are in favor of site versus the everybody is in favor of a persecuting state but cite versity it doesn't just happen diversity is hostile before the 4th i.d. Passed and it's a few actions have to be taken you know we were talking about this way if I can compare it with with Britney because you know we have some. Cousins we are very young that we all belong to the Celtic languages and thus about 30 years ago there were 500000 speakers of wealth and they were also 500000 seats of a stressful West 30 years later the Welsh reached like there's somewhere between 600000 or 700000 speakers whereas in Britain we had down to 200000 and if we do not pay attention I'm the worst for gaining steam because we're going to be quite around 200000 maybe instead of 20 years and by the end of the century it's going to be nobody left you know and the wells have won what they have because I think for one for it they have schools in Wales they have radio program somewhere else they have the television time all enfolding Well they haven't social science they have to be controlled in a sense primarily in the warehouse and you have to put some money into this because it means you know training teachers means making progress to satisfy substract like yours is a book but the point I was going to go back to was I fully accept all of that but if we've now got to a point where 70 percent of people in in Wales can speak Welsh You will still do you funding what he's ultimately a minority. Yes I was how much then influence your spending decisions well for of how to play for wealth and in fact kind of one last go all the very 1st get right to talk right now no I don't. Think there's enough to replace Intel is that how decisions need to be make me do you think that this is going to be very much led by those who are pushing those who are campaigning those who are still speaking in these in these languages and if they make a big enough noise about it then they will forty's you've got to back them and there's got to be state funding that goes with that candidate right. The movement for They've been 1980 that led to multiple culturalism act and multilingualism Act which build off of compacts push to get friends recognized and as a quibbling to English and state language it was a huge voice where I do a lot of work still up in the Yukon Territory they actually created their own Official Languages Act that recognized of the Aboriginal languages there were still spoken in the Yukon Territory so regional governments might be more persuadable the national government Yeah and so that's largely how it works in the states Michigan in 2010 passed the public act $968.00 which recognized or allowed for person speakers to go into schools and to you it's a language classes without having to have like the state certification right they didn't have to go to the college and going to teachers teaching certificate they could just you know work with teachers already in the classrooms to help teach kids the language Alexander is that how you could take this forward in Russia I'm assuming for example if you went to knock on the door of the Kremlin and said Please President Putin a bit more language money around the country please you wouldn't get much house room but if you go to specific areas of Russia where this is an issue you might get a more sympathetic hearing Well yes in some sort of some sort Yes So basically. I do not think that the change of language policy in Russia is possible in the coming years and I hope that some political changes may cause the change in the end if you would but they are totally dependent on the Kremlin and must call Seoul because for example in many regions of Russia the governors are not elected it's Kremlin that gives them their positions of the governors so they're not responsible before the people before the population by their responsibility for their authorities in Moscow and they want to get those authorities happy yes yes yes so that is why for example into Washoe their government after washing our so-called leaders in many respects they demonstrated they trust identity for example where and to wash short on something thinking to our songs and so on and so on so you know what is you know not so important actually And for example it is very usual in Russia that local leaders use minority language use only you know as a kind of greeting for the one warts hello as I said today into us and then they switched to Russian so they do not support bilingualism because you know it's not very favorable for them and it's made the risky or at least sound look like something risky for them yes I want to bring the program to a close with just one very straightforward final question to all 3 of you really because this is allied to data that says that every 2 weeks one language falls out of use around the world so cast your mind forward 30 years let's take this to 2050 resent 1000000 Where do you think Brett old will be in 2050 I put. What I. Think are frankly I think. The president put it right. For a white Christmas gift. So very very. Probably have heard kind of. Well being bad for our family for you Senate race there were there were incidents there were real criminal you know pedophiles so why would I want to I don't know I mean it's difficult to guess but I would brave maybe there will be still like 50000 or concrete or 800000 if we're lucky because I think I don't know but And Barbara make of the of the many ending indigenous languages that you are familiar with take us forward to 2050 How will they look then do you think I think they will it very different from how we imagine I'm to originally have been spoken and given their own Baldwins work. Recovering the meow meow language the movements in Hawaii even the ladies I work with huge huge fees that you know you know the kids stop speaking kind of scandalous move to the southwest where Navajo is still going strong and they'll just learn Navajo which is a related language and Alexander in a foreigner would you Vashon 2050 How would it be using the Ross still some of our speaking kids especially those living in rural areas and even some speaking kids who leave in Cetus and towns for example my son and so I think yes into some 50 to watch will still be spoken but I'm not so sure about the end of the century and as a scholar I cannot exclude that the generation of my son will be the last to watch the can generation because language shift into a washer and in which you are speaking aerosol to Washington is extremely rapid So for example from 2000 time to 2010 town lost a quarter of the speakers so as a speaker cannot accept it. Thank you very much to all 3 of you Alexander Rose and 1000000 of Professor Barbara meek but we're grateful to all of you if you'd like to listen to the program again or any other from the archive you can listen back online by searching for b.b.c. The real story if you enjoy this week's program make sure you never miss another one you can subscribe to our podcast you can find it simply by searching for the real story in your podcast at and we'd love to hear your thoughts on the program you can email us at the real story at b.b.c. Dot dot you. And the team that's the real story for this week thank you very much for this is the b.b.c. World Service and on this week's assignments. And I mentioned one after the end thank you for listening to 89.3 do you think your blog your source for n.p.r. News and music discovery j b r g is supported by don't come up to said big t.v. Mobile online and home phone service provider for Guam and the Mariana Islands you've made the intelligent choice in public radio now you can make the intelligent choice for all your telecommunications services Pacific has the right products and bundles for your communication needs details are online at Okemo Pacific dot com. From w.h.y. Why in Philadelphia I'm Terry Gross with. Today what Ukrainian president. Has to say about the impeachment and the quid pro quo joining us from. Europe correspondent for Time he interviewed Zelinsky over the weekend and just spoke with one of the top aides will also talk about how a Ukrainian oligarchy. Wanted by u.s. Authorities help Giuliani attack Biden Schuster says he observed his legal team and Rudy Giuliani merge over the summer. Was working on a variety of things including digging up dirt on Joe Biden including maybe getting some rain meanwhile there was the fur Tash legal team which was working to keep him free from extradition to keep him out of American prison and John Powers will review the French film portrait of a lady on fire. First. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Jack Speer the House Intelligence Committee will present its findings in the impeachment probe in a new congressional hearing N.P.R.'s Claudio Salis reports edition committee will hear from lawmakers as they work to drop articles of impeachment the hearing next week follows House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is direction to investigating committees to draw up the articles the House Intelligence Committees chairman will present the Democrats findings while the ranking terrible present Republicans arguments against impeachment House Judiciary Democratic Kean Jeffrey said he is expecting a very demanding schedule in the coming weeks and we're in the drafting phase now as it relates to the potential articles of impeachment Jeffrey said although the speaker did not lay out a timeline he expects members will be moving expeditiously many Democrats are hoping to wrap up the inquiry and vote on articles by the end of the year Cloete Selous n.p.r. News the Capitol and a report from rider handling company over is shedding new light on safety complaints N.P.R.'s Shannon Bond reports over a 2 year period over received almost $6000.00 claims of sexual assault ranging from unwanted touching to rape it was chief legal officer Tony West says the data on safety compliance reflect how common sexual assault is in society at large that exists and companies exists on the university campuses and homes labor is not immune to that the 5000 $981.00 claim.