National polling has it this way. 47 obama, 47 romney. Tonights topic is foreign affairs. Our moderator, Bob Schieffer of cbs news. Last time these two men debated, it was instantly labeled the most contentious event of its kind in the modern political era. A lot of it had to do with body lang age as they circled each other. Tonight theyll be seated and thankfully separated by the moderator, all of this happening in a critical battleground state of florida. So without further delay, well go now to the moderator, Bob Schieffer, who will be leading us through tonights debate. Good evening from the campus of Lynn University here in boca raton, florida. This is the fourth and last debate of the 2012 campaign brought to you by the commission on president ial debates. This ones on Foreign Policy. Im Bob Schieffer of cbs news. The questions are mine and i have not shared them with the candidates or their aides. The audience has taken a vow of silence. No applause no reaction of any kind except right now when we welcome president barack obama and governor mitt romney. Its good to see you again. Good luck. Good luck. Gentlemen, your campaigns have agreed to certain rules, and they are simple. Theyve asked me to divide the evening into segments. Ill pose a question at the beginning of each segment. You will each have two minutes to respond, and then we will have a general discussion until we move to the next segment. Tonights debate as both of you know comes on the 50th anniversary of the night that president kennedy told the world that the soviet union had installed Nuclear Missiles in cuba perhaps the closest weve ever come to nuclear war. And it is a sobering reminder that every president faces at some point an unexpected threat to our National Security from abroad. So lets begin. The first segment is the challenge of a changing middle east and the new face of terrorism. Im going to put this into two segments so youll have two topic questions within this one segment on the subject. The first question and it concerns libya. The controversy over what happened there continues, four americans are dead including an American Ambassador questions remain what happened . What caused it . Was it spontaneous . Was it an intelligence failure . Was it a policy failure . Was there an attempt to mislead people about what really happened . Governor romney you said this was an example of an american policy in the middle east that is unraveling before our very eyes. Id like to hear each of you give your thoughts on that. Governor romney you won the toss. You go first. Thank you, bob. And thank you for agreeing to moderate this debate this evening. Thank you to Lynn University for welcoming us here and mr. President , its good to be with you again. We were together at a humorous event a little earlier, and its nice to maybe be funny this time not on purpose. Well see what happens. This is obviously an area of great concern to the entire world and to america, in particular which is to see a complete change in the structure and the environment in the middle east with the arab spring came a great deal of hope that there would be a change towards moderation an opportunity for greater participation on the part of women and public life and in Economic Life in the middle east. But instead weve seen in nation after nation a number of disturbing events. Of course we see in syria, 30,000 civilians having been killed by the military there. We see in libya, an attack apparently by i think we know now by terrorists of some kind against our people there. Four people dead. Our hearts and minds go to them. Mali has been taken over the northern part of mali by al qaedatype individuals. We have in egypt a Muslim Brotherhood president. So what were seeing is a pretty dramatic reversal in the kind of hopes we had for that region. Of course the greatest threat of all is iran. Four years closer to a Nuclear Weapon. And were going to have to recognize that we have to do as the president has done. I congratulate him on taking out Osama Bin Laden and going after the leadership in al qaeda, but we cant kill our way out of this mess. Were going to have to put in place a very comprehensive and robust strategy to help the world of islam and other parts of the world reject this radical, violent extremism, which its certainly not on the run. Its certainly not hiding. This is a group that is now involved in 10 or 12 countries, and it presents an enormous threat to our friends, to the world, to america, long term, and we must have a comprehensive strategy to help reject this kind of extremeismextremism. Mr. President. Well my first job as commander in chief, bob, is to keep the American People safe. And thats what weve done over the last four years. We ended the war in iraq refocused our attention on those who actually killed us on 9 11. And as a consequence, al qaedas core leadership has been decimated. In addition were now able to transition out of afghanistan in a responsible way, making sure that afghans take responsibility for their own security. And that allows us also to rebuild alliances and make friends around the world to combat future threats. Now, with respect to libya, as i indicated in the last debate when we received that phone call i immediately made sure that number one, we did everything we could to secure those americans who were still in harms way. Number two, that we would investigate exactly what happened, and number three, most importantly, that we would go after those who killed americans, and we would bring them to justice. And thats exactly what were going to do. But i think its important to step back and think about what happened in libya. And keep in mind that i and americans took leadership in organizing an International Coalition that made sure that we were able to without putting troops on the ground at the cost of less than what we spent in two weeks in iraq liberate of country that had been under the yoke of dictatorship for 40 years, got rid of a despite who had killed americans. And you had tens of thousands of libyans after the events in benghazi marching and saying america is our friend. We stand with them. Now, that represents the opportunity we have to take advantage of. And governor romney im glad that you agreed that we have been successful in going after al qaeda, but i have to tell you that your strategy previously has been one that has been all over the map and is not designed to keep americans safe or to build on the opportunities that exist in the middle east. Well my strategys pretty straightforward, which is to go after the bad guys to make sure we do our very best to interrupt them to kill them to take them out of the picture. But my strategy is broader than that. Thats important, of course. But the key that were going to have to pursue is a pathway to get the muslim world to be able to reject extremism on its own. We dont want another iraq. We dont want another afghanistan. Thats not the right course for us. The right course for us is to make sure that we go after the people who are leaders of these various antiamerican groups and these jihadists, but also help the muslim world. And how do we do that . The group of arab scholars came together organized by the u. N. To look at how we can help the world reject these terrorists. And the answer they came up with was this. One more economic development. We should key our foreign aid, our direct foreign investment, and that of our friends, we should coordinate it to make sure that we push back and give them more economic development. Number two, better education. Number three, gender equality. Number four the rule of law. We have to help these nations live in civil societies. But whats been happening over the last couple of years is that weve watched this tumult in the middle east this rising tide of chaos. You see al qaeda rushing in these other jihadist groups rushing in. Throughout many nations in the middle east, its wonderful that libya seems to be making some progress despite this terrible tragedy. But next door, of course we have egypt, libya, 6 million population egypt, 80 million population. We want to make sure that were seeing progress throughout the middle east. With having north mali taken over by al qaeda, with syria having assad continuing to kill murder his own people this is a region in tumult. And, of course iran on the path to a Nuclear Weapon weve got real problems in the region. Lets give the president a chance. Governor romney im glad you recognize that al qaeda is a threat. Because a few months ago when you asked the biggest geopolitical event facing america, you said russia. Not al qaeda. You said russia. And the 1980s are calling to ask for their Foreign Policy back. The cold wars been over for 20 years. Governor, when it comes to our Foreign Policy you seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s just like the social policies of the 1950s and the economic policies of the 1920s. You say that youre not interested in duplicating what happened in iraq but just a few weeks ago, you said you think we should have more troops in iraq right now. And the challenge we have i know you havent been in a position to actually execute Foreign Policy but every time youve offered an opinion, youve been wrong. You said we should have gone into iraq. Despite the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction. You said that we should still have troops in iraq to this day. You indicated that we shouldnt be passing Nuclear Treaties with russia despite the fact that 71 senators democrats and republicans, voted for it. Youve said that first we should not have a time line in afghanistan. Then you said we should. Now you say maybe. Or it depends, which means not only were you wrong, but you were also confusing and sending mixed messages both to our troops and our allies. So what we need to do with respect to the middle east is strong steady leadership not wrong and reckless leadership that is all over the map. And unfortunately thats the kind of opinions that youve offered throughout this campaign and it is not a recipe for american strength or keeping america safe over the long term. Im going to add a couple of minutes here to give you a chance to respond. Well of course i dont concur with what the president said about my own record and the things that ive said. They dont happen to be accurate. But i can say this. That were talking about the middle east and how to help the middle east reject the kind of terrorism were seeing and the rising tide of tumult and confusion. And attacking me is not an agenda. Attacking me is not talking about how were going to deal with the challenges that exist in the middle east and take advantage of the opportunity there and stem the tide of this violence. But ill respond to a couple of things you mentioned. First of all, russia i indicated, is a geopolitical foe. Excuse me, its a geopolitical foe, and in the same paragraph, i said and iran is the greatest National Security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the u. N. Time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. Im not going to wear rosecolored glasses when it comes to russia or mr. Putin, and im certainly not going to say to him ill give you more flexibility after the election. After the election hell get more backbone. Number two, with regards to iraq you and i agreed i believe, that there should have been a status of forces agreement. Thats not true. You didnt want it . What i would not have done is left 10,000 troops in iraq that would tie us down. That certainly would not help us in the middle east. Im sorry, there was an effort on the part of the president to have a status of forces agreement. And i concurred on that and said that we should have some number of troops that stayed on. That was something i concurred with. Governor that was my posture as well. I thought it should have been 5,000 troops. I thought it should have been more troops. The answer was we got no more troops through whatsoever. It was a few weeks ago you indicated that we should have fewer troops in iraq. Im sorry, i indicated you said that in your speech. I indicated that you failed to put in place a status of force as greemt at the end of the conflict that existed. Governor heres one thing heres one thing ive learned as commander in chief. Youve got to be clear both to our allies and our enemies about where you stand and what you mean. Now, you just gave a speech a few weeks ago in which you said we should still have troops in iraq. That is not a recipe for making sure that we are taking advantage of the opportunities and meeting the challenges in the middle east. Now, it is absolutely true that we cannot just meet these challenges militarily. And so what ive done throughout my presidency and will continue to do is number one make sure that these countries are supporting our counterterrorism efforts. Number two, make sure that they are standing by our interests in israels security because it is a true friend and our greatest ally in the region. Number three, we do have to make sure that were protecting religious minorities and women because these countries cant develop unless all the population, not just half of it is developing. Number four we do have to develop their economic their economic capabilities. But number five the other thing that we have to do is recognize that we cant continue to do nation building in these regions. Part of American Leadership is making sure that were doing nation building here at home. That will help us maintain the kind of American Leadership that we need. Let me interject the second topic question in this segment about the middle east and so on. And that is you both mentioned alluded to this and that is syria. The war in syria has now spilled over into lebanon. We have more than 100 people that were killed there in a bomb. There were demonstrations there. Eight people dead. Mr. President , its been more than a year since you told assad he had to go. Since then 30,000 syrians have died. Weve had 300,000 refugees. The war goes on. Hes still there. Should we reassess our policy and see if we can find a better way to influence events there, or is that even possible . And you go first, sir. What weve done is organize the International Community saying assad has to go. We have mobilized sanctions against that government. We have made sure that they are isolated. We have provided humanitarian assistance, and we are helping the opposition organize and were particularly interested in making sure that were mobilizing the moderate forces inside of syria. But ultimately syrians are going to have to determine their own future. And so everything were doing, were doing in consultation with our partners in the region including israel which obviously has a huge interest in seeing what happens in syria. Coordinating with turkey and other countries in the region that have a great interest in this. Now, what were seeing taking place in syria is heartbreaking, and thats why we are going to do everything we can to make sure that we are helping the opposition. But we also have to recognize that for us to get more entangled militarily in syria is a serious step. And we have to do so making absolutely certain that we know who we are helping, that were not putting arms in the hands of folks who eventually could turn them against us or our allies in the region. And i am confident that assads days are numbered. But what we cant do is to simply suggest that as governor romney at times has suggested, that giving heavy weapons, for example, to the Syrian Opposition is a simple proposition that would lead us to be safer over the long term. Governor . Well lets step back and talk about whats happening in syria and how important it is first of all, 30,000 people being killed by their government is a humanitarian disaster. Secondly syria is an opportunity for us because syria plays an Important Role in the middle east, particularly right now. Syria is irans only ally in the arab world. Its their route to the sea. Its the route for them to arm hezbollah and lebanon which threatens, of course our ally israel. And so seeing syria remove assad is a very high priority for us. Number two, seeing a replacement government being responsible people is critical for us. And finally, we dont want to have military involvement there. We dont want to get drawn into a military conflict. And so the right course for us is working through our partners and with our own resources to identify responsible parties within syria, organize them bring them together in a form of if not government a form of council that can take the lead in syria, and then make sure they have the arms necessary to defend themselves. We do need to make sure that they dont have arms that get into the wrong hands. Those arms could be used to hurt us down the road. We need to make sure as well that we coordinate this effort with allies particularly with israel. Theyre all willing to work with us. We need to have a very effective leadership effort in syria, making sure that the insurgents there are armed and that the insurgents that become armed are people who will be the responsible parties. Recognize i believe that assad must go. I believe he will go. But i believe we want to make sure that we have the relationships, friendship with the people that take his place such that in the years to come we see syria as a friend and syria as a responsible party in the middle east. This is a critical opportunity for america. And what im afraid of is that weve watched over the past year or so first the president saying well well let the u. N. Deal with it, and saassad excuse me kofi annan came in and said were going to have a ceasefire. That didnt work. Then looked to the russians saying see if you can do something. We should be maying the leadership role, not on the ground with military. We are the leadership role. We organized the friends of syria, we are organizing support for the opposition and we are making sure that those we help are those who will be friends of ours in the long term and friends of our allies in the region over the long term. But, you know going back to libya, because this is an example of how we make choices. When we went into libya and we were able to immediately stop the massacre there because of the unique circumstances and the coalition that we had helped to organize, we also had to make sure that Moammar Gadhafi didnt stay there. And to the governors credit you supported us going into libya and the coalition that we organized. But when it came time to making sure that gadhafi did not stay in power, that he was captured governor your suggestion was that this was Mission Creep, that this was mission muddle. Imagine if we had pulled out at that point. Moammar gadhafi had more american blood on his hands than any individual other than Osama Bin Laden. And so we were going to make sure that we finished the job. Thats part of the reason why the libyans stand with us. But we did so in a careful, thoughtful way, making certain that we knew who we were dealing with that those forces of moderation on the ground were ones that we could work with and we have to take the same kind of steady thoughtful leadership when it comes to syria. Thats exactly what were doing. Governor can i just ask you, would you go beyond what the administration would do . For example, would you put in nofly zones over syria . I dont want to have our military involved in syria. I dont think theres a necessity to put our military in syria at this stage. I dont anticipate that in the future. As i indicated, our objectives are to replace assad and to have him place a new government which is friendly to us a responsible government if possible, and i want to make sure they get armed and they have the arms necessary to defend themselves but also to remove assad. But i do not want to see military involvement on the part of our troops. And this isnt going to be necessary. With our partners in the region we have sufficient resources to support those groups. But look, this has been going on for a year. This should have been a time for American Leadership. We should have taken a leading role, not militarily but a leading role organizationally governmentally, to bring together the parties there to find responsible parties. As you hear from intelligence sources even today, the insurgents are highly disparate. They havent come together. They havent formed a unity group, a council of some kind. That needs to happen. America can help that happen. And we need to make sure they have the arms they need to carry out the very Important Role which is getting rid of assad. Could we get a Quick Response mr. President . I want to ask about egypt. Ill be very quick. What you just heard governor romney said is he doesnt have different ideas. And thats because were doing exactly what we should be doing to try to promote a moderate syrian leadership and an effective transition so that we get assad out. Thats the kind of leadership weve shown. Thats the kind of leadership well continue to show. May i ask you, you know during the egyptian turmoil, there came a point when you said it was time for president mubarak to go. Right. Some in your administration thought perhaps we should have waited a while on that. Do you have any regrets about that . No i dont, because i think that america has to stand with democracy. The notion that we would have tanks run over those young people who were in tahrir square, that is not the kind of American Leadership that john f. Kennedy talked about 50 years ago. But what ive also said is that now that you have a democratically elected government in egypt, that they have to make sure that they take responsibility for protecting religious minorities. And we have put significant pressure on them to make sure theyre doing that. To recognize the rights of women, which is critical throughout the region. These countries cant develop if young women are not given the kind of education that they need. They have to abide by their treaty with israel. That is a red line for us. Because not only is israels security at stake but our security is at stake if that unravels. They have to make sure that theyre cooperating with us when it comes to counterterrorism. And we will help them with respect to developing their own economy because ultimately whats going to make the egyptian revolution successful for the people of egypt but also for the world is if those young people who gathered there are seeing opportunities. Aspirations are similar to people here. They want jobs. They want to be able to make sure their kids are going to a good school. They want to make sure that they have a roof over their heads and that they have the prospects of a better life in the future. And so one of the things that weve been doing is for example, organizing entrepreneurship conferences with these egyptians to give them a sense of how they can start rebuilding their economy in a way thats noncorrupt thats transparent, but what is also important for us to understand is that for america to be successful in this region theres some things that were going to have to do here at home as well. One of the challenges over the last decade is weve done experiments in nation building in places like iraq and afghanistan. And weve neglected, for example, developing our own economy, our own energy sectors, our own Education System and its very hard for us to project leadership around the world when were not doing what we need to do. Governor romney i want to hear your response to that but i would just ask you would you have stuck with mubarak . No. I believe as the president indicated and said at the time that i supported his action there. I felt that i wish wed have had a better vision of the future. I wish that looking back at the beginning of the president s term and even further back than that that wed have recognized that there was a growing energy and passion for freedom in that part of the world and that we would have worked more aggressively with our friend and with other friends in the region to have them make the transition towards a more representative form of government such that it didnt explode in the way it did. But once it exploded i felt the same as the president did, which is these freedom voices in the streets of egypt where the people were speaking of our principles and president mubarak had done things which were unimaginable. And the idea of him crushing his people was not something that we could possibly support. Let me step back and talk about what i think our mission has to be in the middle east and even more broadly. Because our purpose is to make sure the world is peaceful. We want a peaceful planet. We want people to be able to enjoy their lives and know theyre going to have a bright and prosperous future and not be at war. Thats our purpose. And the mantel of leadership for promoting the principles of peace has fallen to america. We didnt ask for it but its an honor that we have it. But for us to be able to promote those principles of peace requires us to be strong. And that begins with a Strong Economy here at home and unfortunately, the economy is not stronger. When the president of iraq excuse me of Iran Ahmadinejad says that our debt makes us not a great country, thats a frightening thing. The former chief joint chiefs of staff, admiral mullen said our debt is the biggest National Security threat we face. We need a Strong Economy. We need a Strong Military. Our military is second to none in the world. Were blessed with terrific soldiers and Extraordinary Technology and intelligence. But the idea of a trillion dollars in cuts through sequestration and budget cuts to the military would change that. We need to have strong allies. Our association and connection with our allies is essential to americas strength. Were the great nation that has allies. 42 allies and friends around the world. And finally, we have to stand by our principles. And if were strong in each of those things american influence will grow. But unfortunately, in nowhere in the world is americas influence greater today than it was four years ago. All right. And thats because weve become weaker in each of those four dimensions. Youll get a chance to respond to that because thats a perfect segue into our next segment, and that is what is americas role in the world, and that is the question. What do each of you see as our role in the world . And i believe governor romney its your turn to go first. I absolutely believe that america has a responsibility and the privilege of helping defend freedom and promote the principles that make the world more peaceful. And those principles include human rights, human dignity, Free Enterprise freedom of expression elections because when there are elections, people tend to vote for peace. They dont vote for war. So we want to promote those principles around the world. We recognize that there are places of conflict in the world. We want to end those conflicts to the extent humanly possible. But in order to be able to fulfill our role in the world, america must be strong. America must lead. And for that to happen we have to strengthen our economy here at home. You cant have 23 Million People struggling to get a job. You cant have an economy that over the last three years, keeps slowing down its growth rate. You cant have kids coming out of college, half of whom cant find a job today, or a job thats commensurate with their college degree. We have to get our economy going. And our military. Weve got to strengthen our military long term. We dont know what the world is going to throw at us down the road. We make decisions today in a military that will confront challenges we cant imagine. In the 2000 debates, there was no mention of terrorism, for instance. And a year later, 9 11 happened. So we have to make decisions based upon uncertainty. And that means a Strong Military. I will not cut our military budget. We have to also stand by our allies. I think the tension between israel and the United States was very unfortunate. I think also pulling our Missile Defense program out of poland and the way we did was also unfortunate in terms of if you will disrupting the relationship in some ways that existed between us. And then of course with regards to standing for our principles, when the students took to the streets in tehran and the people there protested, the green revolution occurred for the president to be silent i thought, was an enormous mistake. We have to stand for our principles, stand for our allies, stand for a Strong Military and stand for a stronger economy. Mr. President. America remains the one indispensable nation. And the world needs a strong america, and it is stronger now than when i came into office. Because we ended the war in iraq, we were able to refocus our attention on not only the terrorist threat but also beginning a transition process in afghanistan. It also allowed us to refocus on alliances and relationships that had been neglected for a decade. And governor romney our alliances have never been stronger. In asia in europe in africa with israel where we have unprecedented military and intelligence cooperation, including dealing with the iranian threat. But what we also have been able to do is position ourselves so we can start rebuilding america. And thats what my plan does. Making sure that were bringing manufacturing back to our shores so that were creating jobs here, as weve done with the Auto Industry not Rewarding Companies that are shipping jobs overseas. Making sure that weve got the best Education System in the world, luing retraining our workers for the jobs of tomorrow. Doing everything we can to control our own energy. Weve cut our oil imports to the lowest level in two decades. Because weve developed oil and natural gas, but we also have to develop Clean Energy Technologies that will allow us to cut our exports in half by 2020. Thats the kind of leadership that we need to show. And weve got to make sure that we reduce our deficit. Unfortunately, governor romneys plan doesnt do it. Weve got to do it in a responsible way, by cutting out spending we dont need but also by asking the wealthiest to pay a little bit more. That way we can invest in the research and technology thats always kept us at the cutting edge. Now, governor romney has taken a different approach throughout this campaign. Both at home and abroad he has proposed wrong and reckless policies. Hes praised george bush as a good economic steward and dick cheney as somebody who shows great wisdom and judgment. And taking us back to those kind of strategies that got us into this mess are not the way we are going to maintain leadership in the 21st century. Governor romney wrong and reckless policies . Ive got a policy for the future and an agenda for the future. And when it comes to our economy here at home i know what it takes to create 12 million new jobs and rising takehome pay. And what weve seen over the last four years is something i dont want to see over the next four years. The president said by now wed be at 5. 4 unemployment. Were 9 million jobs short of that. I will get america working again and see rising takehome pay again. And ill do it with five simple steps. Number one we are going to have north American Energy independence. Were going to do it by taking full advantage of oil, coal gas, nuclear and our renewables. Number two, were going to increase our trade. Trade grows about 12 per year. It doubles about every five or so years. We can do better than that, particularly in latin america. The opportunities for us in latin america, we have just not taken advantage of fully. As a matter of fact latin americas economy is almost as big as the economy of china. Were all focused on china. Latin america is a huge opportunity for us. Time zone language opportunities. Number three were going to have to have Training Programs that work for our workers and schools that finally put the parents and the teachers and the kids first, and the teachers unions are going to have to go behind. And then were going to have to get to a balanced budgeted. We cant expect entrepreneurs and businesses large and small to take their life savings or their Companies Money and invest in america if they think were headed to the road to greece. And thats where were going unless we finally get off this borrowing and spending binge and get us to a balanced budget. Number five weve got to champion Small Business. Small business is where jobs come from. Twothirds of our jobs come from Small Businesses. New business formation is down to the lowest level in 30 years under this administration. I want to bring it back and get back good jobs and rising takehome pay. Well lets talk about what we need to compete. First of all, governor romney talks about Small Businesses but governor when you were in massachusetts, Small Businesses development ranked about 48th, i think, out of 50 states in massachusetts. Because the policies that youre promoting actually dont help Small Businesses. And the way you define Small Businesses include folks at the very top. They include you and me. Thats not the kind of Small Business promotion we need. But lets take an example that we know is going to make a difference in the 21st century, and thats our education policy. We didnt have a lot of chance to talk about this in the last debate. Under my leadership what weve done is reformed education, working with governors, 46 states. Weve seen progress and gains in schools that were having a terrible time and theyre starting to finally make progress. And what i now want to do is to hire more teachers especially in math and science because we know that weve fallen behind when it comes to math and science. And those teachers can make a difference. Now, governor romney when you were asked by teachers whether or not this would help the economy grow you said this isnt going to help the economy grow. When you were asked about reduced class sizes, you said class sizes dont make a difference. But i tell you, if you talk to teachers, they will tell you it does make a difference. And if weve got math teachers who are able to provide the kind of support that they need for our kids thats whats going to determine whether or not the new businesses are created here companies are going to locate here depending on whether weve got the most highly skilled work force, and the kinds of budget proposals that youve put forward, when we dont ask either you or me to pay a dime more in terms of reducing the deficit but instead we slash support for education, thats undermining our longterm competitiveness. That is not good for americas position in the world. And the world notices. Let me get back to Foreign Policy. Can i just get back i need to speak a moment, if youll let me just about education. Okay. Because im so proud of the state that i had the chance to be governor of. We have every two years tests that look at how well our kids are doing. Fourth graders and eighth graders are tested in english and math. While i was governor i was proud our fourth graders came out number one in all 50 states in english and math. Eighth graders number one in english and also in math. The first time one state had been number one in all four measures. How did we do that . Republicans and democrats came together on a bipartisan basis to put in Place Education principles that focused on having Great Teachers in the classroom. Ten years earlier that was what allowed us to become the number one state in the nation. But that was ten years before you took office. And then you cut education spending when you came into office. The first and we kept our schools number one in the nation. Theyre still number one today. And the principles that we put in place, we also gave kids not just a graduation exam that determined whether they were up to the skills needed to be able to compete but also if they graduated at the top quarter of their class, they got a tuitionfree ride at any massachusetts public institution. That happened before you came into office. That was actually mine mr. President , you got that fact wrong. I want to try to shift it because we have heard some of this in the other debates. Governor, you say you want a bigger military. You want a bigger navy. You dont want to cut defense spending. What i want to ask you, were talking about financial problems in this country. Where are you going to get the money . Well lets come back and talk about the military but all the way through. First of all, im going through, from the very beginning, were going to cut about 5 of the discretionary budget excluding military. Thats number one. But can you do this without driving it steeper . Ill be happy to have you take a look. Come on our website. Youll look at how we get to a balanced budget within eight to ten years. We do it by reducing spending in a whole series of programs. Number one i get rid of is obamacare. There are a number of things that sound good but frankly we cant afford them. And that one doesnt sound good and its not affordable. Id get rid of that one from day one. Id take program after program that we dont absolutely have to have and get rid of them. Number two, wed take some programs that were going to keep like medicaid which is a program for the poor. Wed take that Health Care Program for the poor and wed give it to the states to run because states run these programs more efficiently. As a governor i thought, please give me this program. Can he do that . And states by the way, are proving it. States like arizona, rhode island have taken these medicaid dollars, have shown they can run these programs more cost effectively. I want to do those two things. It gets us to a balanced budget within eight to ten years. Bob lets come back to the military, though. Thats what im trying to find out about. He should have answered the first question. Look governor romneys called for 5 trillion of tax cuts that he says hes going to pay for by closing deductions. Now, the math doesnt work but he continues to claim that hes going to do it. He then wants to spend another 2 trillion on military spending that our militarys not asking for. Now, keep in mind that our military spending has gone up every single year that ive been in office. We spend more on our military than the next ten countries combined. China, russia france the united kingdom, you name it. And what i did was work with our joint chiefs of staff to think about what are we going to need in the future to make sure that we are safe . And thats the budget that weve put forward. But what you cant do is spend 2 trillion in additional military spending that the military is not asking for, 5 trillion on tax cuts. You say that youre going to pay for by closing loopholes and deductions without naming what those loopholes and deductions are. And then somehow youre also going to deal with the deficit that weve already got. The math simply doesnt work. But when it comes to our military what we have to think about is not just budgets. Weve got to think about capabilities. We need to be thinking about cybersecurity. We need to be thinking about space. Thats exactly what our budget does, but its driven by strategy. Its not driven by politics. Its not driven by members of congress and what they would like to see. Its driven by what are we going to need to keep the American People safe . Thats exactly what our budget does. And it also then allows us to reduce our deficit, which is a significant National Security concern. Because weve got to make sure that our economy is strong at home so that we can project military power overseas. Bob, im pleased that ive balanced budgets. I was in the world of business for 25 years. If you didnt balance your budget, you went out of business. I went to the olympics it was out of balance and we balanced it. I had the chance to be governor. Four years in a row democrats and republicans came together to balance the budget. We cut taxes 19 times, balanced our budget. The president hasnt balanced a budget yet. I expect to have the opportunity myself. Im going to be able to balance the budget. Lets talk about military spending, and thats it. 30 seconds. Our navy is older excuse me, our navy is smaller now since 1917. The navy said they needed 313 ships to carry out their mission. Were now down to 285. Were headed down to the low 200s if we go through with sequestration. Thats unacceptable to me. I want to make sure that we have the ships that are required by our navy. Our air force is older and smaller than any time since it was founded in 1947. Weve changed for the First Time Since fdr, since fdr, weve always had the strategy of saying we could fight in two conflicts at once. Now were changing to one conflict. Look, this in my view is the highest responsibility of the president of the United States which is to maintain the safety of the American People. And i will not cut our military budget by a trillion dollars, which is the combination of the budget cuts that the president has as well as the sequestration cuts. That, in my view is making our future less certain and less secure. Bob, i just need to comment on this. First of all, the sequester is not something i proposed. Its Something Congress has proposed. It will not happen. The budget that were talking about is not reducing our military spending. Its maintaining it. But i think governor romney maybe hasnt spent enough time looking at how our military works. You mentioned the navy and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Governor we also have fewer horses and bayonnets because its changed. We have aircraft carriers where planes land on them. We have ships that go under water, nuclear submarines. And so the question is not a game of battleship where were counting ships, its what are our capabilityies . And so when i sit down with the secretary of the navy and the joint chiefs of staff, we determine how are we going to be best able to meet all of our defense needs in a way that also keeps faith with our troops that also makes sure that our veterans have the kind of support that they need when they come home. And that is not reflected in the kind of budget that youre putting forward because it just doesnt work. All right. We visited the website quite a bit. And it still doesnt work. A lot to cover. Id like to move to the next segment. Red lines, israel and iran. Would either of you and youll have two minutes, and president obama, you have the first go at this one would either of you be willing to declare that an attack on israel is an attack on the United States . Which, of course is the same promise that we give to our close allies like japan. And if you made such a declaration, would not that deter iran . It certainly deterred the soviet union for a long long time when we made that a promise to our allies. Mr. President. First of all, israel is a true friend. It is our greatest ally in the region. And if israel is attacked, america will stand with israel. Ive made that clear throughout my presidency. So youre saying weve already made that declaration. I will stand with israel if they are attacked. And this is the reason why, working with israel we have created the Strongest Military and intelligence cooperation between our two countries in history. In fact this week well be carrying out the Largest Military exercise with israel in history. This very week. But to the issue of iran as long as im president of the United States, iran will not get a Nuclear Weapon. I made that clear when i came into office. We then organized the strongest coalition and the strongest sanctions against iran in history. And it is crippling their economy. Their currency has dropped 80 . Their Oil Production has plunged to the lowest level since they were fighting a war with iraq 20 years ago. So their economy is in a shambles. And the reason we did this is because a nuclear iran is a threat to our National Security and its a threat to israels National Security. But we cannot afford to have a Nuclear Arms Race in the most volatile region of the world. Irans a state sponsor of terrorism. And for them to be able to provide Nuclear Technology to nonstate actors thats unacceptable. And they have said they want to see israel wiped off the map. So the work that weve done with respect to sanctions now offers iran a choice. They can take the diplomatic route and end their Nuclear Program, or they will have to face a united world and a United States president , me who said were not going to take any options off the table. The disagreement i have with governor romney is that during the course of this campaign hes often talked as if we should take premature military action. I think that would be a mistake because when ive sent young men and women into harms way, i always understand that that is the last resort, not the first resort. Two minutes. Well first of all, i want to underscore the same point the president made which is that if im president of the United States, when im president of the United States, we will stand with israel. And if israel is attacked we have their back. Not just diplomatically, not just culturally but militarily. Thats number one. Number two, with regards to iran and the threat of iran. Theres no question but a nuclear iran a nuclearcapable iran is unacceptable to america. It presents a threat not only to our friends but ultimately a threat to us for iran to have Nuclear Weapons to be used against us or used to be threatening against us. Its also essential to understand our mission in iran and that is to dissuade iran from having a Nuclear Weapon through peaceful and diplomatic means. And crippling sanctions are something i called for five years ago when i was in israel speaking at the conference. I laid out seven steps. Crippling sanctions were number one. And they do work. Youre seeing it right now in the economy. Its absolutely the right thing to do to have crippling sanctions. Id have put them in place earlier, but its good that we have them. Number two, something i would add today is i would tighten those sanctions. I would say that ships that carry iranian oil cant come into our ports. I imagine the eu would agree with us as well. Not only ships couldnt. Id say companies that are moving their oil cant. People who are trading their oil cant. I would tighten those sanctions further. Secondly id take on diplomatic isolation efforts. Id make sure that ahmadinejad is indicted under the genocide convention. His words amount to genocide in citation. I would indict him for it. I would also make sure that their diplomats are treated like the pariah they are around the world. The same way we treated the apartheid diplomats of south africa. We need to increase pressure time and time again on iran because anything other than a solution to this which says which stops this Nuclear Folly of theirs is unacceptable to america. And, of course a military action is the last resort. It is something one would only only consider if all of the other avenues had been tried to their full extent. Let me ask both of you, as you know there are reports that iran and the United States as part of an international group, have agreed in principle to talks about Irans Nuclear program. What is the deal if there are such talks . What is the deal that you would accept, mr. President . Well first of all, those are reports in a newspaper. They are not true. But our goal is to get iran to recognize it needs to give up its Nuclear Program and abide by the u. N. Resolutions that have been in place because they had the opportunity to reenter the community of nations. And we would welcome them. There are people in iran who have the same aspirations as people all around the world, for a better life. And we hope that their leadership takes the right decision. But the deal well accept is they end their Nuclear Program. Its very straightforward. Im glad that governor romney agrees with the steps that were taking. There have been times, governor frankly, during the course of this campaign where it sounded like you thought that youd do the same things we did, but youd say them louder and somehow that would make a difference. And it turns out that the work involved in setting up these crippling sanctions is painstaking. Its meticulous. We started from the day we got into office. And the reason it was so important and this is a testament to how weve restored american credibility and strength around the world is we had to make sure that all the countries participated even countries like russia and china. Because if its just us that are imposing sanctions, weve had sanctions in place for a long time. Its because we got everybody to agree that iran is seeing so much pressure. And weve got to maintain that pressure. There is a deal to be had. And that is that they abide by the rules that have already been established. They convince the International Community they are not pursuing a Nuclear Program. There are inspections that are very intrusive. But over time what they can do is regain credibility. In the meantime though were not going to let up the pressure until we have clear evidence that that takes place. And one last thing. Just to make this point. The clock is ticking. Were not going to allow iran to perpetually engage in negotiations that lead nowhere. And ive been very clear to them. Because of the intelligence coordination that we do with a range of countries including israel, we have a sense of when they would get breakout capacity which means that we would not be able to intervene in time to stop their Nuclear Program, and that clock is ticking. Were going to make sure that if they do not meet the demands of the International Community, then we are going to take all options necessary to make sure they dont have a Nuclear Weapon. Governor. I think from the very beginning, one of the challenges weve had with iran is that they have looked at this administration and felt that the administration was not as strong as it needed to be. I think they saw weakness where they had expected to find american strength. And i say that because from the very beginning, the president has campaigned some four years ago said hed meet with all the worlds worst actors. In his first year hed sit down with chavez and kim jongil, with castro and with president ahmadinejad of iran. And i think they looked and thought, well thats an unusual honor to receive from the president of the United States. And then the president began what ive called an apology tour of going to various nations in the middle east and criticizing america. I think they looked at that and saw weakness. Then when there were dissidents in the streets of tehran a green revolution Holding Signs saying is america with us . The president was silent. I think they noticed that as well. And i think that when the president said he was going to create daylight between ourselves and israel, that they noticed that as well. All of these things suggested, i think, to the iranian mullahs that hey, we can keep on push ago long here. We can keep talks going on but were just going to keep on spinning centrifuges, spinning uranium, preparing to create a Nuclear Threat to the United States and to the world. Thats unacceptable for us, and its essential for a president to show strength from the very beginning, make it very clear what is acceptable and not acceptable. And an iranian Nuclear Program is not acceptable to us. They must not develop nuclear capability. And the way to make sure they understand that is by having from the very beginning the tightest sanctions possible. They need to be tightened. Our diplomatic isolation needs to be tougher. We need to indict ahmadinejad. We need to put the pressure on them as hard as we possibly can because if we do that we wont have to take the military action. Bob, let me just respond. Nothing governor romney just said is true. Starting with this notion of me apologizing. This has been probably the biggest whopper thats been told during the course of this campaign. And every fact checker and every reporter has looked at it. The governor has said this is not true. And when it comes to tightening sanctions, look, as i said before weve put in the toughest, most crippling sanctions ever. And the fact is while we were coordinating an International Coalition to make sure these sanctions were effective, you were still invested in a Chinese State oil company that was doing business with the iranian oil sector. So ill let the American People decide, judge whos going to be more effective and more credible when it comes to imposing crippling sanctions. And with respect to our attitude about the iranian revolution i was very clear about the murderous activities that had taken place, and that was contrary to International Law and everything that civilized people stand for. And so the strength that we have shown in iran is shown by the fact that weve been able to mobilize the world. When i came into office the world was divided. Iran was resurgent. Iran is at its weakest point economically strategically, militarily since then in many years. We are going to continue to keep the pressure on to make sure they do not get a Nuclear Weapon. That is in americas interest, and that will be the case so long as im president. Were four years closer to a nuclear iran. Were four years closer to a nuclear iran. And we should not have wasted these four years to the extent theyve continued to be able to spin these centrifuges and get that much closer. Thats number one. Number two, mr. President , the reason i call it an apology tour is because you went to the middle east, and you flew to egypt and to saudi arabia and to turkey and iraq. And by the way, you skipped israel. Our closest friend in the region. But you went to the other nations. And by the way, they noticed that you skipped israel. And then in those nations and on arabic tv you said that america had been dismissive. Mr. President , america has not dictated other nations. We have freed other nations from dictators. Bob, let me respond. If were going to talk about trips that weve taken, when i was a candidate for office the first trip i took was to visit our troops. And when i went to israel as a candidate, i didnt take donors. I didnt attend fundraisers. I went to bashem the Holocaust Museum there, to remind myself the nature of evil and why our bond with israel will be unbreakable. And then i went down to the border towns which had experienced missiles raining down from hamas. And i saw families there who showed me where missiles had come down near their childrens bedrooms. And i was reminded of what that would mean if those were my kids, which is why, as president , we funded an Iron Dome Program to stop those missiles. So thats how ive used my travels. When i travel to israel and when i travel to the region. The central question at this point is going to be whos going to be credible to all parties involved, and they can look at my track record whether its irans sanctions, whether its dealing with counterterrorism, whether its supporting democracy, whether its supporting womens rights whether its supporting religious minorities and they can say that the president of the United States and the United States of america has stood on the right side of history. And that kind of credibility is precisely why weve been able to show leadership on a wide range of issues facing the world right now. What if what if the Prime Minister of israel called you on the phone and said our bombers are on the way . Were going to bomb iran . What do you say . Bob, lets not go into hypotheticals of that nature. Our relationship with israel my relationship with the Prime Minister of israel is such that we would not get a call saying our bombers are on the way. Or their fighters are on the way. This is the kind of thing that would have been discussed and thoroughly evaluated well before that kind of lastminute youre saying well lets see what the president has to say. Lets go back to what the president was speaking about no. Which is whats happening in the world and the president s statement that things are going so well. Look, i look at whats happening around the world, and i see iran four years closer to a bomb. I see the middle east with a rising tide of violence chaos, tumult. I see jihadists continuing to spread, whether theorizing or just about the same level, hard to precisely measure, but its clear theyre there. Very strong. I see syria with 30,000 civilians dead. Assads still in power. I see our trade deficit with china larger than growing larger every year as a matter of fact. I look around the world, and you see. Nick north kiaey korea. They say theyre going to back away from a treaty we had with them. I dont see influence growing around the world. I see our influence receding in part because of the failure of the president to deal with our economic challenges at home in part because of our withdrawal from our commitment to our military and the way i think it ought to be in part because of the turmoil with israel. I mean the president received a letter from 38 democrat senators saying the tensions with israel were a real problem. They asked him, please repair the tension democrat senators, the gengenocide, in his own party. Governor the problem is on a whole range of issues whether its the middle east whether its afghanistan, whether its iraq whether its now iran. Youve been all over the map. I mean im pleased that you now are endorsing our policy of applying diplomatic pressure and potentially having bilateral discussions with the iranians to end their Nuclear Program. But just a few years ago you said thats something youd never do. In the same way that you initially opposed a timetable in afghanistan. Now youre for it, although it depends. In the same way that you say you would have ended the war in iraq but recently gave a speech saying that we should have 20,000 more folks in there. The same way that you said that it was Mission Creep to go after kagadhafi gadhafi. When you said when it comes to going after Osama Bin Laden, anyone could make that call. I said if i got bin laden in our sights i would take that shot. You said we shouldnt move heaven and earth to get one man. And you said we should ask pakistan for permission. And if we had asked pakistan for permission we would not have gotten him. And it was worth moving heaven and earth to get him. After we killed bin laden, i was at ground zero for a memorial and talked to a young woman who was 4 years old when 9 11 happened. And the last conversation she had with her father was him calling from the twin towers, saying payton, i love you and i will always watch over you. And for the next decade she was haunted by that conversation. And she said to me you know by finally getting bin laden, that brought some closure to me. And when we do things like that when we bring those who have harmed us to justice, that sends a message to the world, and it tells payton that we did not forget her father. All right. And i make that point because thats the kind of clarity of leadership, and those decisions are not always popular. Those decisions generally are not poll tested. And even some in my own party, including my current Vice President , had the same critique as you did. But what the American People understand is is that i look at what we need to get done to keep the American People safe and move our interests forward, and i make those decisions. All right. Lets go and that takes us right to the next segment, governor americas longest war, afghanistan and pakistan bob governor you get to go first. But you cant have the president lay out a whole series of items without giving me a chance to respond. With all due respect, sir, you had laid out quite a program. Well thats probably true. Well catch up. The United States is scheduled to turn over responsibility for security in afghanistan to the Afghan Government in 2014. At that point we will withdraw our combat troops leave a smaller force of americans. If i understand our policy in afghanistan for training purposes. It seems to me the key question here is what do you do if the deadline arrives and it is obvious the afghans are unable to handle their security . Do we still leave . And i believe governor romney, you go first. Well were going to be finished by 2014. And when im president , well make sure we bring our troops out by the end of 2014. The commanders and the generals there are on track to do so. Weve seen progress over the past several years. The surge has been successful. And the Training Program is proceeding at pace. There are now a large number of Afghan Security forces 350,000, that are ready to step in to provide security. And were going to be able to make that transition by the end of 2014. So our troops will come home at that point. I can tell you at the same time that we will make sure that we look at whats happening in pakistan and recognize that whats happening in pakistan is going to have a major impact on the success in afghanistan. And i say that because i know a lot of people feel like we should just brush our hands and walk away. And i dont mean you, mr. President , but some people in our nation feel that pakistan isnt being nice to us and that we should just walk away from them. But pakistan is important to the region, to the world and to us. Because pakistan has 100 nuclear warheads. And theyre rushing to build a lot more. Theyll have more than Great Britain sometime in the relatively near future. They also have the Hakani Network and the taliban existent within their country. A pakistan that falls apart, becomes a failed state would become an extraordinary danger to afghanistan and us. So were going to have to remain helpful in encouraging pakistan to move towards a more stable government and rebuild a relationship with us. And that means that our aid that we provide to pakistan is going to have to be conditioned upon certain benchmarks being met. So for me i look at this as both a need to help move pakistan in the right direction and also to get afghanistan to be ready, and they will be ready by the end of 2014. Mr. President. When i came into office we were still bogged down in iraq and afghanistan had been drifting for a decade. We ended the war in iraq refocused our attention on afghanistan. And we did deliver a surge of troops. That was facilitated in part because we had ended the war in iraq. And we are now in a position where we have met many of the objectives that got us there in the first place. Part of what had happened was we had forgotten why we had gone. We went because there were people who were responsible for 3,000 american deaths. And so we decimated al qaedas core leadership in the Border Regions between afghanistan and pakistan. We then started to build up afghan forces. And were now in a position where we can transition out because theres no reason why americans should die when afghans are perfectly capable of defending their own country. Now, that transition has to take place in a responsible fashion. Weve been there a long time and weve got to make sure that we and our Coalition Partners are pulling out responsibly and giving afghans the capabilities that they need. But what i think the American People recognize is after a decade of war, its time to do some nation building here at home. And what we can now do is free up some resources to for example, put americans back to work especially our veterans. Rebuilding our roads, our bridges, our schools theyre suffering posttraumatic distress disorder, making sure that the certifications they need for good jobs are in place. I was having lunch with a veteran in minnesota who had been a medic dealing with the most extreme circumstances when he came home and he wanted to become a nurse, he had to start from scratch. And what we have said is, lets change those certifications. The first ladys done work with an Organization Called joining forces putting our veterans back to work. And as a consequence, veterans unemployment is actually lower than the general population. It was higher when i came into office. Those are the kinds of things that we can now do because were making that transition in afghanistan. Let me go to governor romney. Because you talked about pakistan and what needs to be done there. General ireland, our commander in afghanistan, says that americans continue to die at the hands of groups who are supported by pakistan. We know that pakistan has arrested the doctor who helped us catch bin laden. It still provides safe haven for terrorists, yet we continue to give pakistan billions of dollars. Is it time for us to divorce pakistan . No its not time to divorce a nation on earth that has 100 Nuclear Weapons and is on the way to double that at some point, a nation that has serious threats from terrorist groups within its nation. As i indicated before the taliban, Hakani Network. Its a nation thats not like others and does not have a civilian leadership thats calling the shots. You have the isi, their Intelligence Organization is probably the most powerful of the three branches there. Then you have the military, and then you have the civilian government. This is a nation which if it falls apart, if it becomes a failed state, there are Nuclear Weapons there, and youve got terrorists there who could grab their hands on those Nuclear Weapons. This is an important part of the world for us. Pakistan is technically an ally. And theyre not acting very much like an ally right now, but we have some work to do. And i dont blame the administration for the fact that the relationship with pakistan is strained. We had to go into pakistan. We had to go in there to get Osama Bin Laden. That was the right thing to do. And that upset them but there was obviously a great deal of anger even before that. But were going to have to work with the people in pakistan to try and help them move to a more responsible course than the one that theyre on. And its important for them. Its important for the Nuclear Weapons. Its important for the success of afghanistan. Because inside pakistan you have a large group of peshtoons that are taliban. Theyll be rushing in when we go. Thats one of the reasons the Afghan Security forces have so much work to do to be able to fight against that. But its important for us to recognize that we cant just walk away from pakistan but we do need to make sure as we send support for them that this is tied to them making progress on matters that would lead them to becoming a civil society. Let me ask you, governor because we know president obamas position on this. What is your position on the use of drones . Well i believe that we should use any and all means necessary to take out people who pose a threat to us and our friends around the world. And its widely reported that drones are being used in drone strikes, and i support that entirely and feel the president was right to up the usage of that technology and believe that we should continue to use it to continue to go after the people who represent a threat to this nation and to our friends. Let me also note that as i said earlier, were going to have to do more than just going after leaders and killing bad guys. Important as that is. Were also going to have to have a far more effective and comprehensive strategy to help move the world away from terror and islamic extremism. We havent done that yet. We talk a lot about these things. But you look at the record you look at the record of the last four years and say, is iran closer to a bomb . Yes. Is the middle east in tumult . Yes. Is al qaeda on the run . On its heels . No. Are israel and the palestinians closer to reaching a Peace Agreement . No they havent had talks in two years. We have not seen the progress we need to have. And im convinced that with strong leadership and an effort to build a strategy based upon helping these nations reject extremism, we can see the kind of peace and prosperity the world demands. Keep in man, our strategy wasnt just going after bin laden. Weve created partnerships throughout the region to deal with extremism, in somalia, in yemen, in pakistan. And what weve also done is engage these governments in the kind of reforms that are actually going to make a difference in peoples lives day to day. To make sure that their governments arent corrupt. To make sure that they are treating women with the kind of respect and dignity that every nation that succeeds has shown. And to make sure that theyve got a free market system that works. So across the board, we are engaging them in building capacity in these countries, and we have stood on the side of democracy. One thing i think americans should be proud of when tunisians began to protest, this nation, me my administration stood with them earlier than just about any other country. In egypt, we stood on the side of democracy. In libya, we stood on the side of the people. And as a consequence, theres no doubt that attitudes about americans have changed. But there are always going to be elements in these countries that potentially threaten the United States. And we want to shrink those groups and those networks and we can do that but were also going to have to maintain vigilance when it comes to terrorist activities. The truth, though is that al qaeda is much weaker than it was when i came into office and they dont have the same capacities to attack the u. S. Homeland and our allies as they did four years ago. Lets go to the next segment because its a very important one. It is the rise of china and future challenges for america. I want to just begin this by asking both of you and mr. President , you go first this time. What do you believe is the greatest future threat to the National Security of this country . Well i think it will continue to be terrorist networks. We have to remain vigilant as i just said. But with respect to china, chinas both an adversary but also a potential partner in the International Community if its following the rules. So my attitude coming into office was that we are going to insist that china plays by the same rules as everybody else. And i know americans have seen jobs being shipped overseas businesses and workers not getting a level Playing Field when it came to trade. And thats the reason why i set up a trade task force to go after cheaters when it came to international trade. Thats the reason why we have brought more cases against china for violating trade rules than the Previous Administration had done in two terms. And weve won just about every case that we filed, that has been decided. In fact just recently steelworkers in ohio and throughout the midwest, pennsylvania, are in a position now to sell steel to china because we won that case. We had a tire case in which they were flooding us with cheap domestic tires or cheap chinese tires. And we put a stop to it. And as a consequence, saved jobs throughout america. I have to say that governor romney criticized me for being too tough in that tire case. Said this wouldnt be good for American Workers and that it would be protectionist. But i tell you those workers dont feel that way. They feel as if they had finally the administration who was going to take this issue seriously. Over the long term in order for us to compete with china, weve also got to make sure, though, that were taking care of business here at home. If we dont have the best Education System in the world, if we dont continue to put money into research and technology that will allow us to create great businesses here in the United States thats how we lose the competition and unfortunately governor romneys budget and his proposals would not allow us to make those investments. Governor. Well first of all, its not government that makes business successful. Its not government investments that make businesses grow and hire people. Let me also note that the greatest threat that the world faces, the greatest National Security threat is a nuclear iran. Lets talk about china. China has an interest thats very much like ours. In one respect, and that is they want a stable world. They dont want war. They dont want to see protectionism. They dont want to see the world break out into various forms of chaos because they have to manufacture goods and put people to work. And they have about 20 Million People coming out of farms every year coming into the cities needing jobs. So they want the economy to work and the world to be free and open. And so we can be a partner with china. We dont have to be an adversary in any way, shape or form. We can work with them collaborate with them if theyre willing to be responsible. Now, they look at us and say, is it a good idea to be with america . How strong are we going to be . How strong is it our economy . They look at the fact that we owe them a trillion dollars and owe other people 16 trillion in total including them. They look at our decision to cut back on our military capabilities, a trillion dollars. The secretary of defense called these trillion dollars of cuts to our military devastating. Its not my term its the president s own secretary of defense called them devastating. They look at americas commitments around the world, and they see whats happening. And they say well okay is america going to be strong . The answer is yes. If im president , america will be very strong. Well also make sure that we have trade relations with china that work for us. Ive watched year in and year out as companies have shut down and people have lost their jobs because china has not played by the same rules. In part by holding down artificially the value of their currency. It holds down the prices of their goods. It means our goods arent as competitive, and we lose jobs. Thats got to end. Theyre making some progress. They need to make more. Thats why on day one i will label them a currency manipulator, which allows us to apply where theyre taking jobs. Theyre stealing our intellectual patent designs, Technology Hacking into our computers, counterfeiting our goods. They have to understand, we want to trade with them. We want a world thats stable. We like Free Enterprise but youve got to play by the rules. Governor let me just ask you, if you declare them a currency manipulator on day one, some people say youre just going to start a trade war with china on day one. Is that isnt there a risk that that could happen . Well they sell us about this much stuff every year. And we sell them about this much stuff every year. So its pretty clear who doesnt want a trade war. And theres one going on right now which we dont know one. Its a silent one, and theyre winning. We have enormous trade imbalance with china. And its worse this year than last year. And its worse last year than the year before. And so we have to understand that we cant just surrender and lose jobs year in and year out. We have to say to our friends in china, look. You guys are playing aggressively. We understand it. But this cant keep on going. You cant keep on holding down the value of your currency, stealing our intellectual property counterfeiting our products selling them around the world, even into the United States. I was with one company that makes valves in process industries. And they said look we are having some valves that were coming in that were broken and we had to repair them under warranty. We looked them up. They had a serial number on them. Then we noticed there was more than one with that same serial number. There were counterfeit products being made overseas with the same serial number as a u. S. Company, same packaging. These were being sold into our market and around the world as if they were made by the u. S. Competitor. This cant go on. I want a great relationship with china. China can be our partner. But that doesnt mean they can just roll a over us and steal our jobs on an unfair basis. Well governor romney is right. You are familiar with jobs being shipped overseas because you invested in companies that were shipping jobs overseas. And you know youre right. I mean thats how our free market works. But ive made a different bet on American Workers. If we had taken your advice governor about our Auto Industry, wed be buying cars from china instead of selling cars to china. If we take your advice with respect to how we change our tax code so that companies that earn profits overseas dont pay u. S. Taxes compared to companies here that are paying taxes, thats estimated to create 800,000 jobs. The problem is they wont be here. Theyll be in places like china. And if were not making investments in education and basic research which is not something that the private sector is doing at a sufficient pace right now and has never done then we will lose the lead in things Like Clean Energy technology. Now, with respect to what weve done with china already, u. S. Exports have doubled. Since i came into office to china. And actually currencies are at their most advantageous point for u. S. Exporters since 1993. We absolutely have to make more progress. And thats why were going to keep on pressing. And when it comes to our military and chinas security part of the reason that we were able to pivot to the asiapacific region after having ended the war in iraq and transitioning out of afghanistan is precisely because this is going to be a massive growth area in the future. And we believe china can be a partner, but were also sending a very clear signal that america is a pacific power, that we are going to have a presence there. We are working with countries in the region to make sure for example, that ships can pass through, that commerce continues, and were organizing trade relations with countries other than china so that china starts feeling more pressure about meeting basic international standards. Thats the kind of leadership weve shown in the region. Thats the kind of leadership that well continue to show. I just want to take one of those points. Again, attacking me talking about an agenda for getting more trade and opening up more jobs with this country, but the president mentioned the Auto Industry and somehow that i would be in favor of jobs being elsewhere. Nothing could be further from the truth. Im a son of detroit. I was born in detroit. My dad was head of a car company. I like american cars. And i would do nothing to hurt the u. S. Auto industry. My plan to get the industry on its feet when it was in real trouble, was not to start writing checks. It was president bush that wrote the first checks. I disagreed with that. I said these Companies Need to go through a managed bankruptcy. And in that process, they can get help and government guarantees but they need to go through bankruptcy to get rid of excess costs and the debt burden theyve built up. Governor romney that is not what you said. You need a take a look at the oped. Governor you did not say that you would provide government help. I said we would provide guarantees and that was what was able to allow these companies to go through bankruptcy, come out of bankruptcy. Under no circumstances would i do nothing to help this industry get on its feet. And the idea was suggested that i would liquidate the industry. Of course not. Of course not. Thats the height of silliness. I would never say that i would liquidate the industry. Governor people in detroit dont forget. And thats why i have the kind of commitment to make sure that our industries in this country can compete and be successful. We in this country can compete successfully with anyone in the world. And were going to. Were going to have to have a president , however, that doesnt think that somehow the government investing in Car Companies like tesla and fiskar. This is the government investing in companies, investing in solyndra. I want to invest in research. Research is great. Providing funding to universities and think tanks, great, but investing in companies . Absolutely not. Thats the wrong way to go. The fact of the matter is im speaking. We want to make sure that we make america more competitive and do things that make america attractive for entrepreneurs, businesses to grow but your investing in companies doesnt do that. In fact, it makes it less likely for them to come here because the private sector is not going to invest in a Solar Company youve had the floor for a while. Look i think anybody out there can check the record. Governor romney you keep on trying to airbrush history here. You were very clear that you would not provide government assistance to the u. S. Auto Companies Even if they went through bankruptcy. You said that they could get it in the private marketplace. That wasnt true. They would have gone through a youre wrong, mr. President. No, i am not wrong. People will look it up. But more importantly, it is true that in order for us to be competitive, were going to have to make some smart choices right now. Cutting our education budget thats not a smart choice. That will not help us compete with china. Cutting our investments in research and technology thats not a smart choice. That will not help us compete with china. Bringing down our deficit by adding 7 trillion of tax cuts and military spending that our militarys not asking for before we even get to the debt that we currently have that is not going to make us more competitive. Those are the kinds of choices that the American People face right now. Having a tax code that rewards companies that are shipping jobs overseas instead of companies that are investing here in the United States. That will not make us more competitive. And the one thing that im absolutely clear about is that after a decade in which we saw a drift in jobs being shipped overseas nobody championing American Workers and american businesses, weve now begun to make some Real Progress. What we cant do is go back to the same policies that got us into such difficulty in the first place. Thats why we have to move forward and not go back. I couldnt agree more about going forward, but i certainly dont want to go back to the policies of the last four years. The policies over the last four years has seen incomes in america decline every year for middleincome families. Now down 4,300 during your term. 23 million Americans Still struggling to find a good job. When you came to office 32 Million People on food stamps. Today, 47 Million People on food stamps. When you came into office just over 10 trillion in debt. Now 16 trillion in debt. It hasnt worked. You said by now wed be at 5. 4 unemployment. Were 9 million jobs short of that. Ive met some of those people. Ive met them in appleton wisconsin. I met a young woman in philadelphia whos coming out of college, cant find work. Ann was with someone just the other day that was just weeping about not being able to get work. Its just a tragedy in a nation so prosperous as ours that these last four years have been so hard. And thats why its so critical that we make america once again the most attractive place in the world to start businesses to build jobs to grow the economy. And thats not going to happen by just hiring teachers. Look i love teachers and im happy to have states and communities that want to hire teachers, do that. By the way, i dont like to have the federal government start pushing its way deeper and deeper into our schools. Let the states and localities do that. I was a governor. The federal government didnt hire our teachers. Governor i love teachers but i want to get our private sector growing, and i know how to do it. I think we all love teachers. Gentlemen, thank you so much for a very vigorous debate. We have come to the end. It is time for closing statements. I believe youre first, mr. President. Thank you very much, bob, governor romney, and to Lynn University. Youve now heard three debates, months of campaigning, and way too many tv commercials. And now youve got a choice. Over the last four years, weve made Real Progress digging our way out of policies that gave us two prolonged wars record deficits and the worst economic crisis since the great depression. Governor romney wants to take us back to those policies. Foreign policy thats wrong and reckless, economic policies that wont create jobs wont reduce our deficit, but will make sure that folks at the very top dont have to play by the same rules that you do. And ive got a different vision for america. I want to build on our strengths. And ive put forward a plan to make sure that were bringing manufacturing jobs back to our shores by Rewarding Companies and Small Businesses that are investing here not overseas. I want to make sure weve got the best Education System in the world. Retaining our workers for the jobs of tomorrow. I want to control our own energy. By developing oil and natural gas but also the Energy Sources of the future. Yes, i want to reduce our deficit by cutting spending that we dont need but also by asking the wealthy to do a little bit more. So that we can invest in things Like Research and technology that are the keys to a 21st century economy. As commander in chief, i will maintain the Strongest Military in the world, keep faith with our troops and go after those who would do us harm but after a decade of war, i think we all recognize weve got to do some nation building here at Home Rebuilding our roads, our bridges and especially caring for our veterans who sacrifice so much for our freedom. Weve been through tough times, but we always bounce back because of our character, because we pull together. And if i have the privilege of being your president for another four years, i promise you i will always listen to your voices. I will fight for your families and i will work every single day to make sure that america continues to be the greatest nation on earth. Thank you. Governor. Thank you, bob, mr. President , folks at Lynn University, good to be with you. Im optimistic about the future. Im excited about our prospects as a nation. I want to see peace. I want to see growing peace in this country. Its our objective. We have an opportunity to have real leadership. Americas going to have that kind of leadership and continue to promote principles of peace to make the world a safer place and make people in this country more confident that their future is secure. I also want to make sure that we get this economy going. And there are two very different paths the country can take. One is a path represented by the president which, at the end of four years, would mean wed have 20 trillion in debt heading towards greece. Ill get us on track to a balanced budget. The president s path will mean continuing declining in takehome pay. I want to make sure our takehome pay turns around and starts to grow. The president s path means 20 Million People out of work struggling for a good job. Ill get people back to work with 12 million new jobs. Im going to make sure that we get people off of food stamps not by cutting the program but by getting them good jobs. Americas going to come back. And for that to happen were going to have to have a president wherethats in charge. Weve got to do that in washington. Washington is broken. I know what it takes to get this country back. And well work with good democrats and good republicans to do that. This nation is the hope of the earth. Weve been blessed by having a nation thats free and prosperous thanks to the contributions of the greatest generation, theyve held a torch for the world to see, a torch of freedom, hope and opportunity. Now its our turn to take that torch. Im convinced well do it. We need strong leadership. Id like to be that leader with your support. Ill work with you. Ill lead you in an open and honest way. And i ask for your vote. Id like to be the next president of the United States to support and help this great nation and to make sure that we all together maintain america as the hope of the earth. Thank you so much. Gentlemen, thank you both so much. That brings an end to this years debates. And we want to thank Lynn University and its students for having us. As i do at the end of these debates, i leave you with the words of my mom who said go vote. It makes you feel big and strong. Good night. Thank you both. Thank you. And so the third and final president ial debate in this election cycle is history as we watch the president and former governor romney exchange what will likely be their last handshake until after the election two weeks from now. As they embrace their spouses. As we said earlier, Neither Campaign in its wildest dreams or worst fears probably would have predicted that as of tonight, we are looking nationally at least at a 47 47 race. The timing of this was fraught. The tenor was slightly more polite than last time though it had its moments. David gregory, we always try to look for the phrase or expression that will live forever out of these. Tonight has to be horses and bay bayonets. Clearly the president s effort was to paint governor romney paint the debate as kind of a past versus future framing. It was specifically about the military, the governors assertion we have fewer ships as a navy since at any time since 1916 a very sharp comeback from the president. Right. What that spoke to was this commander in chief test. Our colleague, tom brokaw likes to talk about voters watching an event like this and imagining either the president or his challenger as commander in chief in the oval office. Obviously, a sitting president has always passed that threshold test. And i think you saw president obama trying to make it very clear that mitt romney and his judgment was not up to the test talking about his positions being all over the map. Talking about the fact that youve never had to execute on Foreign Policy decisions, talking about when i what ive learned as commander in chief. You also saw, brian, the president determined to pick a fight, as youve just referenced, with governor romney. And romney surprisingly determined to avoid a fight, playing almost as if he was ahead, determined to sound more moderate to disagree less with the president on Foreign Policy. Where were the bright shining distinctions between these two men tonight . Look at these pictures as we talk. This is the most time both families have spent as a combined unit. A lot of laughter and frivolity there despite seth meyers complaining this past weekend that as we show these scenes it looks like the lights have come up at a very bad nightclub. Sometimes its been uncomfortable between the two camps. But tonight, mrs. Romney, the first lady the president even put his arm around mitt romneys son there during the discussion. As we look at the greetings to the front row of supporters. Savannah guthrie. This was absolutely the romney strategy going into this debate to majorly tone down the rhetoric. And at times as david observed it seemed the president was spoiling for a fight. He wanted to draw the contrast. Romney from the very first answer wasnt going to be the romney weve seen on the campaign trail, known for those stinging criticisms of the president on a whole host of areas on Foreign Policy. He was asked about benghazi libya, something weve heard romney go hard after the president for on the campaign trail. But he didnt take the bait from the very first answer. Instead, romney advisers said they wanted him to come across as measured, as moderate as somebody who had an understanding of the Foreign Policy issues with some depth. And there were times during this debate where it seems romney was almost delivering a book report the hotspots of the world, clearly trying to show that he will not be caricatured as a warmonger or somebody who engages in cowboy rhetoric. The president , by the same token, determined to remind him of his past statements. We are fortunate to have watching along with us as at least a onenight member of our team in boca raton, richard haass, the chairman of the council on foreign relations. Richard, first of all, your complaint earlier tonight that these have become sallowed events, that these shouldnt be just foreign or domestic affairs. I was thinking of you during the debate toward the end, we talked about detroit and food stamps and a woman weeping in appleton wisconsin. But in your area of expertise, when the conversation was concentrating on foreign affairs, in your view where was the ball advanced or reversed, by either man tonight . Well the larger point, i think, is actually when they talked in general, how much agreement there was. Much less disagreement than you would have expected based upon the last six months. And when they talked about the middle east, what came through is whether it was syria or iran and so forth, that in many cases, our interests, if you will is greater than our influence. And i think both of them when they talked about egypt, pakistan syria were really laying out the difficulties of american Foreign Policy. I was surprised a little bit, though on afghanistan when governor romney was so explicit on saying that all u. S. Forces would be out by the end of 2014. The administration has kept out the possibility of a residual force there, and that was an odd counterpoint to the conversation about iraq where it was almost confusing. Governor romney was saying we should have kept some forces there, and the president was talking about how good it was we had gotten all of our forces out when, in fact the United States did try to negotiate some sort of an arrangement with the iraqis where some forces could stay. So i found all of this somewhat odd. But again, to me the larger bottom line of the night was that on Foreign Policy issues. Actually, there was much more agreement than disagreement. Richard, two points. Number one, well fact check with Andrea Mitchell some of what you raised. Number two, i noticed a columnist for the New York Times tonight tweeted out that this was an etchasketch moment for governor romney. It was obviously a knock of the Campaign Story that came up about changing policy moving toward the center with an ease of erasing an etchasketch. Did you see that kind of movement on his part . Again, im almost more comfortable, brian leaving the politics to others about what governor romney was trying to do tonight. But clearly, a big part of it i think, was trying to communicate that he had the temperament to be a commander in chief. And the tone of the United States is i think he had a very strong line about no more iraqs or afghanistans. That i think he has understood that there is a kind of intervention fatigue. And the talk for example, about ir iran was less about using military force than it was about tightening the sanctions. And again, you were kidding me about it before but again, i found it striking how both gentlemen were talking so much about things domestic. Here it was a Foreign Policy debate and they both kept coming back to what were the real bases of american strength enough nation building overseas now nation building at home. That to me was a consistent theme, and i think theyre both reflecting what theyre hearing and seeing around the country. And tom brokaw to a point you made before we got under way, the format of this along with the guiding hand of Bob Schieffer, having them seated so body language and the kind of thing we saw at hofstra was not a factor. It was a more moderate and moderated conversation. I think if youre going to have these kinds of debates, thats what i like to see is the moderator sitting across the table from them within reach, both physically and in terms of tone to pick up on what richard was saying i think what was said tonight to the American People is that its a really complex world out there. And these events are happening at warp speed. Never least in my judgment the world has never been more dangerous than it is right now. What we saw tonight was governor romney trying to move to a less hawkish position talking much more about winning hearts and minds than he has in the past. And if you could have said to one of the two candidates nice tie, he would have said yes, let me talk to you about the economy. They got back to that subject as quickly as possible brian, because they know thats where the big interests of the country are. When it comes to Foreign Policy these are very complex issues and there are no shakeandbake kinds of answers to them. No one has talked up for example, about the european economy and the impact its having on our domestic economy. Now chuck todd who is after all, our political director and chief white house correspondent. Chuck, youre the keeper of the numbers. Weve been reporting all day our latest nbc polling has this National Race battlegrounds aside, National Race at 47 47 . The battlegrounds are Something Else entirely. For the group, the targeted audience theyre looking for tonight, how much was there in this for them . Reporter well i think you did hear some of it particularly at the end of the debate when you had the auto bailout question, and you had mitt romney to me he gave away sort of a tell about how he thinks explaining why hes losing ohio for instance. He felt the need to have to respond to the hit on the auto bailout, that he wasnt for it and he was trying to explain what his position really was. And then he was trying to take credit away from the president and say president bush actually was the first one that started the bailout. But i wasnt for the bailout. Its interesting, a little convoluted. And sometimes when youre explaining, youre losing an answer, but i think it was a tell, if you will brian, that he knows up there near toledo okay you want to split it up we can simplify ohio coal the coal miner seems to be where obama is struggling down in Southeast Ohio and the autoworker is seeming to be in the northeast part in the northwest part of the state near toledo is where romney is struggling. And it seemed that he was trying to talk to those folks. But you brought up the poll. And i think if we didnt have a poll tonight and we had no polling in this race and you watched this debate and then you asked me who is the candidate that believes theyre ahead and who is the candidate that believes theyre behind . President obama came across as the candidate who believes he had more that he had to accomplish with tonights debate than mitt romney. Now, the questions going to be and i think that the debate is romneyland is going to be and among some republicans, was romney too passive . He let every single charge that the president leveled at him almost go unanswered even some of those belittling remarks, if you will. You get to a point where youre too passive. In football terms, sometimes when you play prevent defense, brian, you prevent yourself from winning. It was the first spade that they called. Chuck todd part of our team in boca raton. Well take a quick break. As promised when we come back Andrea Mitchell will be truth squadding and Fact Checking just some of what we heard from that stage tonight. No, no, no, stop humans one day, were coming up with the theory of relativity, the next. Stop, stop, stop my car not so much. But thats okay. Youre covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from Liberty Mutual insurance. Total your car, and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. Learn about it at libertymutual. Com. Liberty mutual insurance. Responsibility whats your policy . But when i was in an accident. I was worried the Health Care System spoke a language all its own with unitedhealthcare, i got help that fit my life. So i never missed a beat. Thats health in numbers. Unitedhealthcare. We are back a quick instareview, and there are many especially given social media, but ron fornier, bottom line obama won monday nights debate on points from the blessings of incumbency and world experience. One view instantly available after this thing wrapped up. Also after this thing wrapped up as youve heard, a lot of questions on points on points made by both men on stage. And for that in her role as head of our truth squad, we bring in Andrea Mitchell part of our team in boca raton. Andrea lets talk about iraq. It was one of the big early squabbles. It had to do on facts. Well play the exchange and come back out for what the truth bears. We dont want another iraq. We dont want another afghanistan. Thats not the right course for us. So andrea, a lot was said there. What checked out . Reporter well tonight governor romney said that he did not want another iraq or afghanistan. But four years ago in a debate right here in boca raton, mr. Romney was asked by moderator tim russert, if the war in iraq was worst both the costs in blood and treasure weve spent, and romney responded at that time, quote, it was the right decision to go iraq. I supported it at the time. I support it now. And brian, president obama also argued tonight that mitt romney two weeks ago said that the administration should have kept troops in iraq longer. Lets listen. This is just a few weeks ago that you indicated that we should still have troops in iraq. No i didnt. Im sorry, i indicated you said that in your speech. I indicated that you failed to put in place a status of forces agreement at the end of the conflict that existed. Governor reporter both men were shading their past positions on that one. The president was referring to an october 8th speech that governor romney made criticizing, quote the abrupt withdrawal of all american troops from iraq. But he did not explicitly say that the u. S. Should have more troops there. So governor romney is right, that the administration has tried and failed to get a status of forces agreement that in fact, would have allowed a small force of troops to remain for several years in iraq. There is also some truth in what the president said. Over the last year governor romney has said he would have left between 15,000 and 30,000 troops in iraq as Security Forces taking over. Brian . This next one i have to ask you about was one where the president had palpable frustration when it was raised by governor romney. And while it is phraseology, it also has a basis in facts or not. And its what governor romney and others have dubbed the president s apology tour. Lets take a listen first. And then the president began what i would call an apology tour of going to various nations in the middle east and criticizing america. I think they looked at that and saw weakness. Bob, let me just respond. Nothing governor romney just said is true. Starting with this notion of me apologizing. This has been probably the biggest whopper thats been told during the course of this campaign. And every fact checker and every reporters looked at it governor, has said this is not true. So andrea youre sitting at home youre watching these two men, what is someone to think, did the president ever apologize for anything . Did he apologize for the United States . Reporter well the charge is central to romneys campaign. He has said this over and over again. The president pushes back very hard on this. In fact he never used the word apologize when he went overseas to cairo in 2009 explaining that he thought that the u. S. Had made some mistakes in dealing with the world. Many consider it more a matter of diplomacy, a matter of nuance. But these are open to interpretation. And romney points to several examples including when president obama said in 2009 in strasburg, america has shown arrogance and been dismissive even derisive. We should point out, Andrea Mitchell is joining us from the edge of the spin room where the postdebate activity gets a little boisterous. That explains the background. Finally, andrea on this notion of putting daylight between the United States and israel governor romney has charged repeatedly that the president hasnt been as close a friend or ally as he could or should be. Lets take a look at this. And i think that when the president said he was going to create daylight between ourselves and israel that they noticed that as well. All of these things suggested, i think, to the iranian mullahs, hey, you know we can keep on pushing along here. We can keep talks going on. But were just going to keep on spinning centrifuges. Andrea, its all yours. Reporter well brian, theres never been any proof that the president ever said that. The only source for this is an article in the Washington Post by scott wilson who said that the president said this in a meeting with the leaders of manyorganizations, theyve only said there is no daylight as the president said tonight, that israel is very close strategically, they have no military exercises going on at this time. No one has been able to corroborate it but it is very true that he did think that george w. Bush rubber stamped his policies too much. Andrea mitchell part of our team going over all the assertions made the facts thrown around the stage and which ones of them bear out under some inspection. Andrea, thanks. Lets go back up to our booth above the debate stage to chuck todd. And chuck, a couple of givens here. No poll remains fresh for that long. Its a snapshot in time. This race you know were going to wake up 14 days to go. Everything still going to be on the move. Weve talked about the 47 47 National Number but lets go inside these battleground states. The National Numbers important because it can be a leading indicator of individual state movement but where are things as of right now tonight . Reporter all right. We put up here this is our brandnew nbc battleground map. These seven states that we have in yellow colorado iowa wisconsin, virginia florida, new hampshire. We think these are seven states we are classifying as tossup. There is still a battle being fought in places like nevada and North Carolina, if you will. But in those instances, weve moved them in the lean romney category as far as North Carolina and the lean obama category as far as nevada is concerned. Nevada a demographic advantage there with hispanics for the president and North Carolina just something thats a lot more republicans there. But i want to show you the travel schedule. And brian, i know youre becoming very familiar with this travel schedule with the president over the next couple of days. In a 48hour period starting wednesday, the president s going to hit eight states six of them in battlegrounds. Hes going to go crisscross the country, if you will. It includes stops in los angeles because hes going to do jay leno. It includes stops this chicago because hes going to early vote. But look at the battleground states hes hitting here. He is hitting nevada even though we think it is in his column in a lean category if you will. Iowa colorado ohio, virginia and florida. Not to be outdone, of course is mitt romney. Hes taking 48 hours. Hes hitting four of these battlegrounds. Theyre making one last push in nevada. But ive had aides privately admit to me that this issue with hispanics is a problem for them. They want to see if they can close the gap there. Colorado, brian, this is the swing state that i think that gets no respect. We talk about florida and ohio theyre traditional, virginia of course, is new the acela corridor. Colorado may end up being the closest state in the country that is geographically inconvenient sometimes for traveling. Among the stops well be making as you noted later this week. Chuck todd thank you for that. And having set out the map, lets talk with just two members of our team who will be traveling everywhere chuck just mentioned and more. Are looking remarkably chipper considering the thousands of miles theyve already flown. On the left, Peter Alexander who covers the Romney Campaign for us. And Kristin Welker on the right, again with a cast of thousands of supporters covering the white house. Now, peter, on the other side of the ledger we just talked about what are mostly the white houses view youre going to be able to trace through your travel exactly the states where the Romney Campaign is looking for pickoffs here and there. Reporter and brian, we have a pretty good sense of exactly what they hope to accomplish tonight. The first words out of the mouth of a Senior Adviser that i spoke to just ten minutes ago were, we believe there are a lot of swing voters watching tonight. This was clearly a focus on swing voters on women and on that likability factor trying to make him not just thoughtful and reassuring but also appear president ial. Theyre confident. In the words of one adviser, brian, now it begins like a knife fight in a phone booth. This is going to be an aggressive last two weeks of this. And kristen, as youre going to learn doing your travel on air force one, theres nothing thats going to move colorado any closer to the white house. You still have to get there while youre there, why not hit california nevada on your way back east . So the same is true for the president s scheduling. And they have indicated they will add states and cities at the very last moment. Reporter absolutely. One of those states is new hampshire. President obama will be there on saturday, brian. You heard chuck todd talk about the breakneck pace of this campaign over the next several days. One of the key goals to the Obama Campaign is going to be to rally some of his core supporters latinos, women voters africanamericans to offset some of the potential losses in other groups. The other thing that the Obama Campaign tonight is touting, their ground game. They have been working on this for over a year. They feel like that is a strength. And tonight they are also saying that president obama had a strong performance, saying that he was authoritative without being too aggressive but im sure thats something that will be debated quite a bit over the coming days and weeks. Kristen welker Peter Alexander, again, just two members of our traveling team. This is when the going gets tough, 14 days to go. When we wake up tomorrow morning with again, nationally at least a race that stands at 47 47 . A couple of things to tell you about in addition to a summation on your late local news tonight, its important that you know about today tomorrow morning. Tomorrow Savannah Guthrie will have her interview with republican Vice President ial candidate paul ryan. Matt lauer will have his interview with Vice President joe biden. And as youve heard referenced tonight, later this week ill be going on some of those travels with the Obama Campaign as they go to the west and then come back east. Well have that for you on nbc nightly news on today and on rock center this coming thursday evening. So for all the members of our team from new york to washington, to boca raton, florida, and beyond thank you for being with us for our coverage tonight of this the third and final president ial debate of the season. Im brian williams, nbc news, new york
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