Vendetta against steven avery . Absolutely not. Reporter for the first time on television, a lead investigator defends his interrogation, which led to a conviction overturned. This was seen by many as a false confession. It was a real confession. We just need you to be honest with us. He knew right from wrong. Those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way. Reporter the prosecutor fights back with an explosive new book. People are going to hear the other side of the story reporter and a promise from Steven Averys highpowered new attorney. Do you think you have new evidence that can free steven avery . We do. Reporter im lester holt and this is dateline. Heres Andrea Canning with return to Manitowoc County. Reporter the mystery of what happened here in the sprawling fields of rural wisconsin has captivated the country. We the jury find the defendant steven a. Avery guilty. Reporter just over a year ago, the Netflix Series making a murderer convinced many viewers that steven avery and Brendan Dassey, both convicted of murder, had been railroaded by Law Enforcement. Free steven avery reporter its a case dateline has been following for more than a decade. Reporter tonight we bring you the latest in the efforts to free them from prison, and we pose the questions everyones been asking to two men who helped put avery and dassey behind bars. Why would steven avery do this . Thats a great question. Reporter we speak with former prosecutor ken kratz, whos written a new book which reveals his provocative theory. That steven avery made himself a murderer. Steven avery started planning this event the very first day he went to prison reporter and we talk with Tom Fassbender, a lead investigator who has come under fire for this controversial interrogation. Now hes defending himself for the first time on television. Youve really stayed silent through this fire storm. Why are you sitting here today . Finally realized that someone needed to speak out, to bring forward the truth of what happened. So, what did happen here . Reporter our story begins with the woman at the heart of this case, a 25 year old photographer from kaukauna, wisconsin named Teresa Halbach. She just loved being behind the camera. Kim peterson and teresa became fast friends in college, both were photographers working at the same studio in green bay. Kim says teresa had a special way with her subjects. She would get the smile. That was one thing, i think, that she really loved to do, was just make other people smile. Reporter the two stayed in touch after graduation as they launched their careers. But that would all change suddenly on october 31, 2005. Kim caught a story on the local news, teresa was missing. Investigators say the 25yearold photographer was on assignment for auto trader magazine when she disappeared. And my heart just kind of dropped knowing that it was someone i knew. And what do you do at that moment . I felt helpless cause you wanna just deny it. You want to try to get in touch with her. Did you try to call her . I did try to text her, but no response . No response. Reporter Wisconsin Police quickly launched a massive search, bolstered by a team of volunteers. After two days, a big break. They had found teresas vehicle on the avery salvage yard. Reporter Tom Fassbender, then a special agent with the Wisconsin Department of criminal investigation, hustled over to this 40 acre stretch of land in Manitowoc County, home to the salvage yard and auto mechanic steven avery. Had you heard his name before . Only through the media. Reporter steven avery was a big story. Hed been convicted of rape in 1985, but eighteen years later dna evidence exonerated him, and he was freed. A wrongfully convicted man welcomed back into society with open arms. And looking for justice of his own. Were you aware that he had filed a lawsuit against yes. The local Sheriffs Department . Yes, id heard that. Reporter avery hoped winning the 36 million lawsuit could help him get back on his feet. He had an opportunity to make something of his life. And it appeared that he was he was headed toward in that direction. Reporter now, two years after his release from prison, this poster boy for Wrongful Convictions was back in the news and not in a good way. I hope she comes back so she can go back to her family. Reporter when fassbender arrived on site, he learned Teresa Halbach had an appointment at the salvage yard on october 31 to take photos of this van averys sister was selling. Teresa had left a message that morning. Hello this is teresa with auto trader magazine. Im the photographer and just giving you a call to let you know that i could come out there today. Umm in the afternoon, it would probably be around 2 oclock. Reporter steven avery confirmed to investigators that teresa had been on the property that day and left around 2 30 pm. Avery didnt tell them much more. But for investigators, a dark tale started emerging from the physical evidence, especially when they made a gruesome discovery in the back of teresas suv. We find teresas blood in the vehicle, primarily in the cargo area of the rav4. Reporter and in the front, more blood. There was blood on some of the upholstery. And then a very telling swipe of blood, near the ignition switch of the vehicle. Reporter tests showed that blood was Steven Averys, taking him from person of interest to prime suspect. You believe you can explain the blood from steven avery . Well yes absolutely. Steven avery had a cut on his right hand, middle finger that was freshly scabbed over. And if you took that key and you put it in that ignition switch, it just lined up perfectly with a contact pattern swipe. How did he explain that cut . Im not sure if i remember that. I think he had claimed that he had cut it in the junkyard doing work on vehicles. Reporter fassbender feared the worst. And after four days of searching, his team found something disturbing in a fire pit near averys trailer. What appeared to be bone fragments. Reporter human bones. Most interesting because family members told investigators that steven avery had built a bonfire hours after teresa had been at the yard that day. It was a huge bonfire. Flames going as high as, you know, the edge of the roof on the garage. Was it all making sense to you . The looking at bone fragments. The whole picture . Absolutely. Reporter and that picture came into sharper focus when fassbenders team found another clue, teresas key, inside averys bedroom. The toyota key with a little fob connector to it. This is huge yes, its huge. Reporter especially when the crime lab later found averys dna on it. It would become a highly controversial clue in this case. The evidence was stacking up against steven avery. And fassbender says that rav 4 would later tell investigators one last thing. We had tested the the hood latch and found dna matching steven on the hood latch. Reporter fassbender believed avery had some explaining to do. So nine days after teresas disappearance, he and his partner mark wiegert brought avery in for an interview. Dateline filed a freedom of information request to obtain the video. The key is in your bedroom. You know the key is there because you put the key there. Thats the only way the key gets there. No. Yes steve. Yes. Reporter avery was defiant, and even claimed cops were framing him, planting evidence. Thats the way it is. The evidence. Cops got the evidence. Reporter fassbender and wiegert werent buying it and placed steven avery under arrest. I didnt do it. Were not mad at you okay. Somebodys doing somebodys doing a good job on me reporter investigators were convinced they had their man. 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Reporter in january, 2006, steven avery pleaded not guilty to the murder of Teresa Halbach, and special prosecutor ken kratz began building his case. He chronicles it all in his new book, avery. What do you feel people know the least about in this case . The book is about the case against steven avery that is setting forth, a better representation of what the real evidence was. Reporter better, he says, than the way the evidence was presented in making a murderer for the first time kratz lays out his complete theory of the case with new details hes never shared before. For one thing, kratz tells dateline he believes steven avery had set his sights on Teresa Halbach in the weeks leading up to her murder. As we move closer towards october 31st, we see stevens behavior changing. Reporter as kratz got auto traders records he learned teresa had actually made five earlier visits to the avery salvage yard to take photos, some at Steven Averys request. He starts making calls directly to Teresa Halbach rather than going through auto trader. Reporter and kratz determined that on the day before one of those visits avery purchased these shackles and handcuffs. And when teresa arrived he answers the door that day, only wearing a small white towel. And teresa, we know, is is creeped out by that behavior. She tells friends and and coworkers about that. Reporter kratz believes averys behavior shows signs of a sexual obsession with teresa that led to murder. Why would steven avery do this when he was on the verge of getting this big windfall, potentially millions of dollars . Thats a great question. I dont know. We know that hes a psychopath. We know that he has do we know that . Well, i i i lets say i allege that. Okay . I i believe that deep down. Reporter kratz discovered more in averys past. 18 years before teresas murder, avery wrote this letter to his estranged wife from prison saying, i will kill you. And a former fiancee told police he had physically abused her. And kratz says he learned something even more disturbing. This 2006 Police Report shows a teenage girl accused avery of raping her a year after his release from prison. It all came together for kratz. He believes avery had developed a deep resentment of women which had started with his Wrongful Conviction, and had only grown over the years. He has no remorse for his behavior, feels incredibly entitled. Reporter but as he continued to investigate the case, kratz had a problem. You still didnt know how she was killed, exactly where she was killed. Was that bothering you . Yes, but sometimes you you know, you have what you have. It was all coming together in in, bits and pieces. Reporter he and his team kept digging until they got a big lead. Why dont you just have a seat, brendan . Reporter in march, 2006, four months after teresas murder, Tom Fassbender and his partner, mark wiegert, spoke with averys 16yearold nephew, Brendan Dassey, in a series of now highly scrutinized interviews. What was your First Impression of Brendan Dassey . A shy kid, somewhat introverted. Reporter but once he opened up, the details he revealed would stun investigators. What else did he do to her . Raped her. Did he tell you that . Reporter fassbender says dassey described a brutal scene. On that halloween afternoon, his uncle asked him to come over to his trailer. Dassey said they each sexually assaulted teresa in averys bedroom, and avery later shot her in his garage, burning her body in the bonfire. Its a gamechanger. He told us stuff that that we werent really aware of like teresa was shot in in the garage and had died there. Reporter and after speaking with dassey, fassbender had his team return to the avery property once more. And they found this in his garage, a bullet fragment. And that was missed the first time around . Well i guess i could say it was missed. But youre talking about bullet fragment,. 22 bullet fragment. Looks like a piece of dirt possibly. It was tested . It was tested. Yes. Teresas dna was on that bullet, and the bullet from shot from stevens rifle or the one above his bed. Do you now believe that teresa was shot in that garage . Yes. Reporter one strange thing, though, when they searched the garage for blood, they never found a drop. How could you clean up all that blood . Oh, he did it to the best of his ability, i guess. Bleach, paint thinner, that cleans up blood. Reporter teresas friend kim says when she heard the details about teresas final moments, she was heartbroken. I remember crying and just hoping she was who she was and fought because she was a very strong person. Reporter ken kratz charged Brendan Dassey as a coconspirator in her murder. I intend to hold each of these defendants accountable for the rape, the torture, and the murder of Teresa Halbach. Reporter but, not so fast. Dassey recanted his statements just before averys trial, the judge dismissed the rape charge against him and didnt allow any of those allegations about averys treatment of women, saying they didnt prove anything about teresas murder. And avery was never charged with assaulting his exfiance or with raping the teen. To this day, he denies all the allegations. And those handcuffs and shackles . No evidence ever linked them to teresa. Still, in the spring of 2007, juries in separate trials convicted both dassey and avery of murdering teresa. They were each sentenced to life in prison. You are probably the most dangerous man ever to enter my courtroom. Reporter it seemed like the avery saga had ended. But eight years later, making a murderer would put fassbender, kratz, and their entire team in the hot seat. Sangre . Was steven avery framed. Is it possible the blood could have been planted. A lead investigator answers allegations for the first time. Did you have any vendetta against steven avery. Absolutely not. When the dateline continues. Together, we are perfectly balanced, our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. I know this is sudden, but you know what they say if you love something. Set it free. See you around, giulia choose your favorite pasta,or piadina or sandwich. It all comes with our neverending soup or salad. And all the breadsticks you want. Starting at just 6. 99 get neverending value for lunch, today at olive garden. My hygi. A mouthwash. O try. So i tried crest. It does so much more than give me fresh breath. Crest prohealth mouthwash provides all. Of these benefits to help you get better dental checkups. Go pro with crest mouthwash. Checkup . Nailed it cmohappy birthday i survived a heart attack. Im doing all i can to keep from having another one. And im taking brilinta. 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Reporter in december 2015, netflix released making a enforcement. Who would wanna set you up in Something Like this . The only thing i can think of is Manitowoc County with the money. So, they didnt have to pay nothing out. Did they plant evidence . Sure they did. Reporter kim ducat is averys cousin. She says she had predicted something bad might happen to him after he was exonerated in that earlier rape case. Remember he had recently filed a lawsuit against his local Sheriffs Department for his Wrongful Conviction. I did tell him manitowoc wasnt done with him. Why did you think they werent done with him . Just something just told me they werent gonna hand that steve avery 36 million or any kinda money, that they were just going to be watching him. and look what happened. Reporter avery ended up settling that lawsuit for 400 thousand dollars before his trial. The county did not acknowledge any wrongdoing. He used the money to hire his Defense Attorneys dean strang and jerry buting. We knew going in it was going to be a difficult defense. Reporter we spoke to buting early last year. We had a very tough defense in this case because nobody wants to try and use as a defense that the police deliberately tried to plant evidence or frame somebody. Thats not it go it goes against society. Its very difficult. Those those are those people are there to help us. Theyre the police. Right. But its where we thought the evidence pointed. Reporter averys attorneys believed the fact that officers from the county he was suing were part of the search made for a huge conflict of interest. And for possible mischief at the crime scene. What i can say is from the evidence ive looked at, i i think he was innocent, is innocent. Reporter preparing for trial, buting learned about a vial of averys blood left over from his overturned rape conviction, which had been sitting in the Manitowoc County clerks office. We saw that there was still a styrofoam box that had been slit open with evidence tape. Thats really the big aha moment. Yeah, it was. Reporter and for many viewers it was the aha moment in making a murderer. A little tiny hole. Reporter the attorneys theorized that someone could have poked the hole in that vial and spread averys blood inside Teresa Halbachs suv. As for teresas car key your theory is that the key was planted in the residence . That is where we thought the evidence pointed, yes. By the police . By someone. You know, it was not found in, you know, six or seven earlier entries to the trailer. And were talkin about a trailer, it didnt add up. Reporter colead investigator Tom Fassbender worked alongside the local county sheriffs deputies but was employed by a different agency, the Wisconsin Department of justice. This is the first time hes responded publicly to the accusations against him and his Law Enforcement colleagues. Did you have any kind of vendetta against steven avery . Abso or his family . Absolutely not. I i didnt know steven avery. I didnt know his family. Never been there. Reporter fassbender bristles at the idea the local investigators could have done anything unethical. The people that were there that i worked with from Manitowoc County were hard working. They only wanted to do the right thing and to to do this investigation the right way. Is it possible that that blood could have been planted . No. Everything all the evidence says no. Reporter fassbender notes that a chemical called edta had been used to preserve averys blood in the vial, and that at trial tests showed no presence of edta in averys blood found in the suv. Didnt match. No edta in the blood in the vehicle. Reporter fassbenders argument . Since that blood found in the vehicle didnt contain the chemical, it couldnt have come from the vial. And he notes that a nurse was prepared to testify she had made that hole in the vial as part of her usual routine when she drew the blood from avery. So the fact that there is a little hole in the top of the the vial is normal. Reporter and regarding teresas car key, not found until the seventh search of averys trailer why was the key missed during those other searches . Well, primarily because where the key was located in in small bookcase that wasnt searched yet. And if it was, it was just kinda looked at. Why not do the thorough search earlier . Oh, i would guess part of it is because we didnt lock and load on steven avery. You know, we went in there, did that that first search. But we had 12 more buildings and four more residences to search. So we had a lot to do. Reporter still, it wasnt just when the key was found that has averys supporters skeptical. Its who found it, these two men, lt. James lenk and sgt. Andrew colborn, of the Manitowoc County Sheriffs Department. It turned out they had just been deposed in averys lawsuit. Well, they were deposed that we later found out so do you think though they were deposed. That maybe just them, by nature, being with manitowoc that maybe they shouldnt have been in there at all just to avoid all of this speculation. Its easy to armchair quarterback and second guess. I think we wouldve done that maybe if we had the resources. But youre talking about a small rural county being assisted by another smaller rural county. You need resources. Steven avery said says, these guys had it out for me. The whole department was angry at me. This was the perfect opportunity for them to have access to my trailer, plant the key. I never absolutely saw that. Never never saw that from anyone in Manitowoc County. Reporter fassbender says he believes a conspiracy to frame avery would have been virtually impossible to carry out. I could go on and on about the the planting defense and how absurd it is, with the multiple agencies that we had in there. Im your friend right now. Reporter but it was that video of Brendan Dassey which would really put fassbender at the center of the storm. An interrogation so controversial it might get averys nephew out of prison. Coming up. How much of Brendan Daisy east confession was true. Those officers wanted that information in the worst way and they got it in the worst way. Oh yai yai yai yai yai yai. Look at the moon. Whoot. What bad back . Gels work so fast youll ask what pulled hammy . Advil liqui gels make pain a distant memory nothing works faster stronger or longer what pain . Advil. Gus is a handful. We dont know what this thing is, but someday, gus will because this is the thing that gus will build that will change the world. And this is the thing that could change gus world. Gus doesnt know what this thing is, but we know what this thing is. 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Reporter in 2008, attorneys Steven Drizin and Laura Nirider took up dasseys case for his appeal. They saw a mentally challenged t did you of Brendan Dassey when you were finally able to meet him in person . Brendan is a simple soul. I was struck by his humanity. This is not somebody i could see committing a crime like this. Thats the psychological power of interrogation. Reporter the two attorneys are based at the Northwestern University school of law outside chicago. Theyve worked to free a number of wrongfully convicted defendants, and say what they learned about dasseys case astounded them. Nobody was in Brendan Dasseys corner at the moment he needed help the most. Reporter beginning, they say, with this man. Give me one word to describe Len Kachinsky. Unbelievable. Unconscionable. Reporter Len Kachinsky came on board to defend dassey just after that interrogation got averys nephew arrested. Drizin and nirider discovered that the attorney had made legal mistakes that caused him to be removed from the case. He has faced online vitriol from dassey supporters. Is it okay if i read you some of the comments . Sure, sure, go ahead. Disgusting human being, a pure disgrace to the wisconsin judicial system, a man with a sickened soul. Ive seen it. [ laugh ] reporter in one instance, kachinsky, working to cut a plea deal while dassey was in jail, had arranged for his client to speak with investigators, but kachinsky, himself, didnt show up. Tell me what the truth is. That i stabbed her in the stomach. That was clearly a mistake. This is huge, though. I mean, youve got i agree. A 16yearold kid with a low iq with no attorney present, no parent. Ill say. Its kind of like feeding someone to the wolves in a way. Would you apologize to Brendan Dassey. Well, id apologize apologize to him for not being at that interview. So there were mistakes made . Oh sure, there were mistakes, but none of them contributed to the verdict in dasseys case. There are people who disagree with that. Oh sure. Reporter but as dasseys attorneys delved further into those stunning statements the teen made, they came to believe something more disturbing, that investigators Tom Fassbender and mark wiegert had coerced the teen into making a false confession. These officers took advantage of a disabled youth and got him to say what they wanted him to say. Dont lie to us now okay. Come on. What happened . Youre just hurting yourself if you lie now. Hes got severe learning disabilities, inability to respond in a narrative type answers. And theyre in precisely the areas that make him vulnerable to the kind of tactics that the Police Officers used in this case. Reporter the attorneys say that the investigators manipulated dassey with coaxing statements like these from fassbender, who was seated just off camera. Im your friend right now. Its all right. You are doing the right thing. They should never have made those kinds of suggestions that they wanted to comfort him, that all would be well. Those kinds of tactics when used on a kid like brendan are a recipe for false confessions. Reporter and they say the investigators manipulation of the teen escalated far beyond simple coaxing. The officers needed brendan to provide information that only the real killer would know, and they knew what they wanted him to say. Reporter they accuse the investigators of planting details about the crime in dasseys mind to get the answers they wanted. For example, remember Steven Averys dna found on the car hoodlatch . The attorneys say investigators asked dassey leading questions to confirm that his uncle had looked under the hood of the car. Did he raise the hood at all or anything like that, to do something to that car . Yeah. What did he do under the hood, if thats what he did . I dont know what he did, but i know he went under. Reporter and dasseys attorneys say in that same interview the investigators used another Crucial Detail theyd learned about the case from the forensics. Tell us what else did you . Something with the head. They had received a report from the Wisconsin Crime Lab indicating for the first time, how Teresa Halbach had died. She had been shot in the head. They worked extremely hard to get brendan to say that. We have the evidence brendan. We just need you to, to be honest with us. That he cut off her hair. What else was done to her head . That he punched her. What else . Its okay. What did he make you do . Cut her. What else happens to her in her head . Its extremely, extremely important you tell us this, for us to believe you. Come on, brendan. What else . Thats all i can remember. All right, im just gonna come out and ask you. Who shot her in the head . He did. Why didnt you tell us that . Because i couldnt think of it. Those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way by feeding it straight to Brendan Dassey. Even they know that thats bad police practice. Reporter then drizin and nirider discovered something at the end of that interview which was a revelation to them, something jurors in his trial never heard, dassey speaking to his mother. I never did nothing or something. Did you . Huh . Not really. What do you mean not really . They got to my head. Huh . At the first moment that brendan gets outside the influence of those interrogators, he says, no, this is not true. They got to my head. Reporter but Tom Fassbender, the interrogator himself, sees it all very differently. Hes defending his tactics publicly for the first time. Coming up, fassbender responds. This was seen by many as a host confession. He knew right from wrong. Brendan was involved in this. A better moment of proof. 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Who needs dna when you have olay . New regenerist. Reporter for his interrogation of Brendan Dassey, now seen by millions, Tom Fassbender has come under fire in court and online. This was seen by many as a false confession. Do you see it as a false confession or a real confession . I feel it was a real confession. Were you ever trying to extract a false confession from him . Absolutely not. Reporter fassbender denies that his expressions of sympathy for dassey were manipulative. I legitimately was concerned for him. That wasnt staged. That wasnt strategy. Why do you think people took it the other way, the the more sinister way, that you were taking advantage of him . I think thats easy to do. The the from its a cynical approach, so to speak, watching tv, watching movies, how cops are depicted on those movies, trying to trick people into saying stuff. Everything about the interview with brendan was soft, was comfortable. Reporter but comfortable might not be a word dasseys supporters would use, especially given his age and intelligence level. What about his iq . Because when you watch him, you can tell that he has a lower iq. I dont [ chuckle ] i i dont assess iqs. I mean, im not, you know but could you tell that he maybe wasnt like other boys his age . More socially, probably. You know, i i i dont want to cross the iq social line. But he could think, and he knew right from wrong. Is it possible that hes easily manipulated . Its possible. He sounded confused at times . Quite possibly. He didnt know what was up and down. I dont know, just watching it. I dont know about that. My thought is he had a million things going on in his his head at that time. Reporter fassbender resists charges that he and his partner inappropriately planted ideas in dasseys head, like in that exchange about the hoodlatch. What did he do under the hood, if thats what he did . What did brendan say . He agreed that that steven had gone under that. You used the word, agreed . Yes. So you brought it up first . Yeah, i i believe so. And thats thats one of the areas that you came under fire for . Yes. Is that you were planting things in this mind . Yes, thats what they said. And there were instances that we did ask him specifically about things, yes. And that can happen in an interview. Can we take that as a reliable answer, given how it was spoonfed to him . No. Their side would argue no. And i would say based on the the entirety of the interview, i would say yes. Reporter and as for that other moment that has angered so many followers of the case. All right, im just going to come out and ask you. Who shot her in the head . He did. Any regrets about that, bringing it up yourselves, about putting that in his head . Theres always things that you can improve on. There were instances because of brendans personality that, yeah, we we had to talk to him about and and ask more specifically certain questions. And and that happens. What do you say to those people whove made you part of this big discussion about false confessions and who were yelling at their tvs because they didnt like the job that you did . Just that its easy to armchair quarterback. Its easy to second guess. That i you know, i that thats partly why im here, is explain that there was nothing nefarious done. Reporter but even fassbender wonders if everything dassey said in the confession was true. We didnt try to manipulate brendan. We tried to get at the truth, and i dont believe that it was a false confession. Are there parts of it that he may have not done . I i dont know. You know, i just dont know. Reporter last august, a federal judge weighed in with a bombshell. In response to a brief filed by dasseys attorneys, judge William Duffin ruled that Brendan Dasseys confession was involuntary. With that, the judge overturned his conviction and ordered dassey to be released from prison. What was that like for you, hearing that news . Mixed emotions. I know we did everything above board. One magistrate rules that it isnt fine, in his opinion, which is all right because thats the system. Are you okay if he walks free . Im not okay if the familys not okay. I believe brendan was involved in this, that he was there and he was involved in it. Reporter Brendan Dassey is now 27. His release is pending an appeal from the Wisconsin Attorney general, which was just argued in federal court this week. Meanwhile, the other half of this saga is playing out in state court, and Steven Averys attorney is leaving no stone unturned. Coming up, the latest. Im out of data again i cant work out without my music you need to switch to sprint. 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Reporter that dateline program, from august 2011, told the story of Ryan Ferguson, a young man sitting in prison for a murder he said he didnt commit. Attorney Kathleen Zellner was determined to get him out. Nothings as riveting as this. When the trials been lost, everythings been lost, and youve got somebody in there whos innocent, its like the ultimate challenge, i think. I said thats the woman thats going to get steven out of prison. Reporter zellner specializes in Wrongful Conviction cases, and says she has freed eighteen defendants, including Ryan Ferguson. Sandy contacted her, and she joined the case not long after making a murderer came out. Reporter we caught up with zellner at the Waupun Correctional Institution when she paid a visit to avery early last year. Million dollar question. Do you think you have new evidence that could free steven avery . We do. Yeah. Reporter zellner invited dateline into this war room she created in her office outside of chicago all dedicated to the avery case. Do we know if that was tested . Reporter and she even showed us this rav4 she bought, to get a better understanding of teresas vehicle. Then in august, to much media fanfare she filed a motion in Manitowoc County court seeking new testing of the evidence. Were going to find out one way or the other, was the evidence planted. Kathleen zellner is known as an aggressive defense attorney. Reporter ari melber is chief Legal Correspondent for msnbc. Shes looking for new evidence to argue the entire case was done the wrong way. Shes basically trying to put the state on trial. Reporter in her 45 page legal motion, zellner attacks Law Enforcement, tries to poke holes in the prosecutions case, and raises new questions. She notes that teresas cell phone pinged off a cell phone tower 13 miles away later that day, suggesting maybe she left there alive. Theres also indications that other people not from Law Enforcement entered the property during the investigation, raising the prospect of other potential suspects. Reporter and shes won an early round. In november a judge granted her access to some of the evidence so her experts could perform new forensic tests, including more advanced testing on averys blood from the rav4. The biggest blockbuster finding for miss zellner would be evidence to show that the blood from the car wasnt from a fresh wound from mr. Avery but rather from that older blood sample. Reporter in a statement zellner recently told dateline we will be able to demonstrate exactly how the evidence was planted in the early part of the investigation. Avery, she insists, was framed for a crime he did not commit. As for former prosecutor ken kratz and his new book, zellner dismisses kratzs claims about averys treatment of women and interactions with teresa, saying there was no proof that mr. Avery was becoming obsessed with ms. Halbach. And that rehashing a story about inadmissible evidence seems pointless. zellner also notes mr. Kratz has no qualifications which would allow him to diagnose mr. Avery as a psychopath. Mr. Avery has never been diagnosed as a psychopath. Reporter kratz, who prosecuted both steven avery and Brendan Dassey, says hes undaunted. Are you afraid of Kathleen Zellner . No. Im not involved in the case anymore. I shouldnt be afraid of of anything. My involvement she could concluded go ahead. She could unravel your work if what shes saying has some weight to it. You dont think she has a chance . I dont. Shes so confident; why are you so confident . Because we spent 18 months putting this case together. This wasnt just thrown together. It wasnt a bunch of keystone cops. It was done very professionally, very well. Reporter kratz does have personal regrets. In his book he admits to past Prescription Drug abuse, and says hes ashamed that he sent sexually suggestive texts to a Domestic Violence victim two years after averys trial. A scandal which led to his resignation. While he still takes issue with making a murderer, he says hes moving on with his life. And a new girlfriend. Im hoping this book will change the narrative. Reporter meanwhile, avery continues to fight. And Brendan Dassey could be released soon, after more than a decade behind bars, perhaps for a new trial. But with all the talk of guilt or innocence, trials or retrials, kim peterson says that the person being forgotten is her friend, teresa. She is the reason why were even talking about this. And she just deserves to be remembered. Reporter for her memories kim says she goes back to this grainy video diary teresa made three years before she died. It was played at averys sentencing. I love taking pictures. I love holding a camera in my hand. It gives me the chills every time i hear it. Because she talked about everything she loved. Is there anything you would say to teresa right now if she could hear you . Just that, youre still in my heart. And ill never forget you. I just want to know that whenever i do die, i just want people i love to know that whenever i die, that i was happy. Thats all for this edition of dateline. See you norm 8, 7 central. And, again, sunday. Im lester holt. From all of us at nbc news, good night. Causes a ting the state. Heavy gues next at 11 00, another storm belting the state. Heavy rain causing a so cal road to swallow two cars. How much rain well get this weekend. A gunman dies. What we may never know about the crime, next. The Hydrogen Fueled mirai. Its only emission is water. Toyota. Lets go places. Thisideo justn a soberg right now at 11 00, a wet mess across california. This video just in. Thats a sobering sight near l. A. Thats a fire truck falling into a sink hole. Thankfully, no one was hurt. At this hour, the rain is still coming down in parts of the bay area. Well tell you what to expect as we begin this holiday weekend. The news at 11 00 starts right now. Good evening and thanks for being with