We can by the that leadership I mean they have they actually have meetings and decide policy and right they do is right if you're a member of the Labor Party or the think Gold Award which is your local organization and they send representatives from the ward meetings to constituency meetings and constituency meetings send people to the conference and the conference discusses the party policy it's not binding on the leadership but it is. Indicative of what they never sleeps thinking also you have a big role in electing the leader. Since 2015 the Labor Party has operated a system for electing the leader of one member one vote so the M.P.'s get a single vote the members of trade unions who are affiliated to the party get a single vote each and the membership gets a single vote and say you get to vote on who the leader of the party is directly in that way so it's a much more democratic party than the party that is called the Democratic Party and it's much more closely tied in with the working class the Labor Party has grown enormously as you pointed out in the last few years and it has a huge infusion of young people talk about how that came about please Well it really resulted. From Jeremy Coleman selection to the leadership. 2016 they changed the rules for electing the leader in the party prior to that the rules had been an Electoral College where M.P.'s trade unions and members got a 3rd of the vote each well as there were hundreds of thousands of members and I knew a few 100 M.P.'s that meant that the M.P.'s had a much bigger vote. Than the membership. But in order to get rid of the influence of the trade unions which is what they were really trying to do the right in the party supported. The unions would give up their share of the bloc. In this. System that they had and in exchange the rightful food the possibility of the. Giving up their share of the bloke and quite cleverly that McCluskey who's the leader of the largest trade union in Britain unite and a close ally. Accepted this proposal even though it meant that his members when the leadership of the unions was losing some influence it meant that the M.P.'s who were generally on the right of the party lost more influence so they move to a system of one member one vote and to the astonishment of everyone on the basis of that new system being introduced that need to the astonishment of the right but actually the left was surprised by this everyone was Jeremy Colvin came through and won a stunning victory to become. Become leader of the party and that really meant that for the 1st time. Actually really in the history of the party its leadership was held by someone who was very much from the left I mean Colby is a real campaigning socialist I mean a social democrat but very much from the left and that energized a base of young people across the country who'd been fed up with the centrist policies of the Blair and Brown governments and 70. Pull by the Tory governments that we've had who are very much opposed to the Iraq war. And concerned about things like climate change to join the polity as something that would represent their views and so there was a huge influx of membership that stuns the party very well in the face of the general election which is coming up well let's talk about what the Labor Party stands for. Particularly on the central issue of our time climate change but also employment private ownership of industry health care housing education the rights of Palestinians the wars in the Middle East let's take them one by one let's 1st talk about climate change. What does the Labor Party want to do about climate catastrophe Well there are floods caring in Yorkshire of the moment in Britain that devastated a lot of communities in the north of England the effect of climate change seems to be extremely heavy and intense rainfall so the rivers of swelling of peoples has flooded in the Tory government was extremely slow to react to this being called for Boris Johnson the prime minister to go into a. Meeting with an organization called Cobra which is space to deal with disaster relief Johnson initially declined to do this but that in the end had to give way and they have had to cover meetings now in the north of England with John. But I think Labor I've got a much stronger position on climate change than the Conservatives not least because the conservatives are pretty closely tied to Donald Trump so labor is calling for what they call the green industrial revolution. It's a bit similar to the Green New Deal in the United States what it involves is massive investment in wind and wave. And didn't sell the panels and in creating good well paid unionized jobs in order to build the infrastructure the makes that possible. And committing you know very significant sums of money to that. They shy away from taking over recalcitrant industries in Great Britain that don't want to go along with this well that sent me their proposals to take over the utility companies that need the water companies which put up the cost of water in Britain No Miss Leonore will say from an environmental point of view extremely wasteful because they haven't repair the infrastructure so a lot of water is wasted. So there are proposals to nationalize water to take stakes in the utility and the other utility companies they also want to nationalize ri nationalize the railways. And invest a lot of money in the railways especially in the no as an alternative to cause and they want to nationalize the post office. I think when you use the word nationalized these days you have to be a bit careful because this is not really like the nationalization that occurred. Back in the forty's and then got a sort of bad reputation in the seventy's for being very bureaucratic kind of top down management that was out of touch with the consumers and the sort of nationalization that they're proposing now sort of public admission thing is much more democratically based and that this is ownership it would be run by. The workers who work in the industry and quite low levels and also by the people who use these says they would have an input too so it would be much more sensitive to the needs of the people who are using these industries in we're speaking with Collin Robinson a long time member of the Labor Party in Great Britain splits his time between New York City and London and knows quite a lot about the Labor Party has as I'm learning how and what about the Labor party's positions on health care housing education. Well with face you know health care we're faced with a situation which is really quite dangerous for something which is most treasured in Britain by a vast majority of the population I mean I don't know if people would have seen. Danny Boyle's opening ceremony for the Olympic Games that were held in Britain a few years ago but one of the things that featured in that celebration was a reenactment of the glory of the National Health Service and its system which provides health care for everyone free at the point of delivery extremely efficient it really was said to be $945.00 by a Labor government at the end of the war and it's a national treasure you know it's something that has huge public support to the extent of the Tories have never been able to openly attack it but they have been attacking it by stealth increasingly various within this publicly and it's privatized sation a little bit here a little bit that they're all private patients and n.h.s. Hospitals. That are being provided by the n.h.s. Which they all contracting them contracting from private supply is so this is been going on for years by the end of the Blair government and the Tory government under David Cameron. But suddenly there's a much bigger risk to this now because it's very clear that if the Tories elected in this election on December 12th with a majority then they all going to go into a alliance with Donald Trump to allow these big American health companies to come. Mentioned the n.h.s. And accelerate its privatized nation in a really dramatic way and this is a real danger to the n.h.s. So Labor said they will absolutely resist any attempts to do that they will roll back the privatization which is already a bit and they were there also promising to make a big financial investment in the n.h.s. In the United States the lack of housing the cost of housing has put hundreds of thousands of people into the streets and into camps what is the Labor party position on the lack of decent housing in Great Britain Well I mean it's a crisis in Britain to the homelessness because. Because of the if they shouldn't of property prices and also the huge slab in social has the ng that it. That she decided she was going to sell off a huge number of in Britain they called council houses these were built by local authorities for people on low incomes often for rent actually for always for rent. That you had the bright idea of selling these olf it was a way of reinforcing a notion of a property owning democracy so all that stock of previously available affordable housing for rent disappeared. And he's absolutely endemic now in major British cities and coping has been very. Sometimes he sounds a bit like a. A Christian socialist you know he's very good on delivering these simple moral messages and one of the things which he has repeatedly. Made a point of saying is that it is absolutely unacceptable in one of the richest countries in the world Britain today that people 70 people should be sleeping on the streets and I think this is actually something that's connected with young people in a very effective way so labor of go to pledge or at least they did in the 2017 election to build a $100000.00 affordable houses a year for rent and that you know 1990 fest there hasn't been announced yet but I'm sure the commitment then will be something along those lines in the United States there's a crisis and higher education the cost of college is really prohibitive and students are going into debt well over their heads is the same situation prevail in Great Britain and what is the Labor Party want to do about it yeah absolutely I mean when I went to. College. Back in the seventy's when there was no tuition I mean it was just paid for by the state and also when you. Will given a grant to help with your accommodation when the university vacations came around and you could just sign on the unemployment benefit and get your rent paid that way as well as tiny benefits the situation now is completely changed from that I mean that's you know I'm a student fees and labor of made a commitment that they will just abolish that they're going to make higher education free and they're also going to make it possible this was the statement they made yesterday for people to get back into education at any time in their lives. Because I think understanding is that this is not just a way of growing the economy but all say a way of actually providing a. Enjoyable life for people to give them the opportunity to learn when they want to do in songe the great truthtelling whistleblower is sitting as we talk in Belmarsh prison in solitary confinement awaiting his extradition to the United States where the Trump administration wants to put him in prison for the rest of his life what has Jervy Corben said about the asylum situation. And the shadow home secretary of Diane Abbott have said that they would not extradite a sausage to the us. They would have appreciated I think in particular the release of the Iraq war logs that Wiki Leaks was responsible for this was the material that Chelsea Manning gave to Wiki Leaks which they published in the face of no one else wanted to do say including that. Extraordinarily painful to watch a video. Called Collateral Murder which had a helicopter in Baghdad gunning down innocent people including Reuters journalists and this sort of it was a material fact and of mining the American and British war effort in Iraq Jeremy cool been and Diane Abbott was opposed to that well from the get go. You know very small minority of British. Who did say but I think one of the reasons why that's a popular with young people in Britain is because they all clearly against these. Hopeless wars that America Britain have been involved in by extension in support of Palestinian rights in the Middle East have. Had a long tradition of supporting the Palestinians and of course that's got him into a lot of difficulty with people who support the state of Israel I was going to ask you about that because they're saying that Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite. Yeah there's been a weaponization of anti Semitism which has been extremely unfortunate and it's still going on through this election campaign going up to December 12th you know that have been some issues of the semitism in the Labor Party I suspect that much less widespread inside the Labor Party which is basically an anti racist body that they are in society as a whole and actually I don't think that anti semitism until recently and even recently has been a big issue in British society I mean there is certainly anti semitism around in the world today and wherever it is it should be combated but it hasn't been a big issue in British society and it certainly hasn't been a big issue in the Labor Party but this is been used as a way of attacking the. Labor leadership and I don't think that they've dealt with it very well I think they have rather been on the back foot of being very defensive about it but it's a very difficult thing to do with you know whether the Jewish establishment and the British press and the right wing leadership of the Tory Party have all been using this as a way of undermining the leadership of the Labor Party very very difficult to do with. Whether this is a big issue for a wide swathe of the electorate around the country I think you'd have to be a bit more skeptical about it but it's certainly going to be a factor in this in this election. The heartland in the USA has been the industrialized with millions losing their jobs and something similar to this is happening Great Britain the Bracks it vote to pull England out of the European Union has divided the working class in Great Britain I want to ask you about your opinion of Bracks that has there been an adequate discussion about why people would want to leave in the 1st place. No I don't think so I think what happened was that that that which took place. Under the Cameron government it was a referendum which was basically instituted age. In 2015 you know wanted to try to deal with a split in the Tory party. And the result of it was a radio shock to the establishment a bit like the elation of Trump here no one really anticipated that this would go through. But it did and I think subsequent attempts to explain it often made by rather right wing commentators in the metropolitan elite of London were very disparaging people. Split between the Tories in the counties around London. And wide sections of what in class people in the north and the West Midlands of England and. People in the. Media and the political elite have very little idea of what those people in the north of England in the West Midlands actually thought about anything I mean they very rarely go. So soon as this vote came through. The tendency was to ascribe it to a kind of xenophobia racism ignorance you know the feeling that these people really didn't know what was best for them. But I think if you told people who do know what's going on in those communities in the north they'd say actually this was much more to do with the fact that basically saying we're fed up with this we're fed up with the way that the establishment has been running this country for a set of them with fed up with the fact that all communities are being ravaged by you know they wouldn't call it neo liberalism but that by international capitalism and we want to just basically have no more of this and so it was a way of sticking a finger up this is this establishment but I have a lot of sympathy for that I think there's Jeremy Cooper you know I think he's been quite careful even though the majority of the labor membership substantial majority of the labor membership is pro remain. Very careful not to alienate that labor base in the no voted for the next for BRICs it as a way of expressing their frustration and the position of the party is that should they weigh in on December 12th they will organize another referendum and they will then go to Europe and try to get a c.-h. a Much better deal than Boris Johnson. And then put that better deal to the electorate with the option of remaining another have people to have a final say I mean it's a complicated position to. Explain on the doorstep and it has the disadvantage of keeping this debate around bricks. Rolling on. It's going to roll on anyway even if even if the Tories win and Britain comes out of the orby and union straight away. But it's a way of recognizing that in the end you have to try and bring the country back together again around this issue and I think Corbin's been very Go to say that actually. This isn't the most important issue facing Britain actually the most important issues facing Britain. Inequality and racism and climate change and issues like that. I really hope that they've is going to be able to get that position over in this campaign I think that's what they're working on. As it stands now what do you think the Labor Party's chances are of success. Well you know I mean I wouldn't be a session with you I wasn't a bit of an optimist I mean it's hard to be a pessimistic socialist. I think I think we're in with a chance I mean there are there are lots of things ranged against I mean there is an extraordinarily hostile media but a couple of things that are worth noting on the media for and 1st is that actually the rules of British elections the same much better than the rules in American elections festival it's a much shorter campaign period so you can people can focus on the coming basically there was an election really a month and a half rather than a year and a half right there's always an election running in the United States and it's always the election of our lifetimes but in Britain it's a much more concentrated period in that period the political parties are not allowed to buy advertising on television than say that makes a huge difference parties are allocated time on television to put their case based on how they performed in the previous election say they get things they call them party political broadcasts which are time which the broadcast does have to give over to the political parties based on how popular they are to address the public and then the news coverage in the election period there is a legal requirement on the broadcasters to give equal space to the political parties based on how they performed in previous elections so that gives Labor a much better shot than when the coverage is just normal when obviously the broadcasts like the rest of the media and the newspapers all you know generally ranged against the another thing which is quite significant I think in this election and it's kind of bit of a story in the wind is that the Guardian which is the kind of main the left liberal . That's the other way around liberal left paper in the in the u.k. Which is traditionally if you know the. Readership that it has which is solidly on the left and gone for a much more centrist politics has already come out pretty clearly actually and said that he's going to be supporting Colby in this election and that's a shift on their part say I think those. Things they're actually quite. Positive. That the choice of got a lot of money I've got a lot of business backing obviously and they've also got a propensity to lie you know without qualms you know that the truth is really you know a principle question for them that gives them some advantage they can just put things out there that it not true and they go around and you know some people believe them so it's not going to be easy. But yeah I think we're in with a chance we've got 500000 members going out there knocking on people still loath I mean I had the other day as a constituency coaching French near London and it's a sci fi by a Tory called the and Duncan Smith he's one of the most right wing racist. Really really unpleasant politician quite high up in the Tory party and last weekend momentum which is the activist organization supporting Jeremy Colvin at the base of the Labor Party sent 500 young people over the weekend 500 to go knock on doors and the reports coming from that was they were getting a very good response so I think Labor talking about this as a people powered election and I think you know that will go a long way it's amazing to me how what you're saying about what's going on to Great Britain resonates with. What's going on here in the United States and the Bernie Sanders phenomena and all that and the local phenomenons too like chaser who did win it is a progressive producer tourney in San Francisco but how long before we move on there is one question that I just can't resist asking you now you're from Liverpool was John Lennon a socialist Yeah I think you were with yeah he definitely was he was the anti establishment. And I don't know whether you have actually came out and supported labor in those days and there was a Labor government around in the sixty's and to Harold Wilson but it was pretty it was pretty centrist moderate Labor Government John had a mo. Radical position that he went on the. And he would demonstrations against the Vietnam War I know he marched with Terry Kawhi and. I think he and Yoko wrote that song Give peace a chance as a way of. Protesting war so I don't know whether he was actually a Labor Party supporter but he with me he was certainly on the left and yet let me just say that yeah I didn't close who is the manager of the Liverpool so. That statement by him going around of the Met I think it may be something he said some years ago but anyway it's going around at the moment Liverpool traditionally been one of the strongest soccer teams in the world I mean they've had a bit of a. Tough time over the last few decades but in the in the seventy's and eighty's they were the greatest team in the world and I'm a big levels of water you know they play in red so you know I never read in blue is means different things in the United States but in most of the rest of the world red is identified with the left their original manager Bill Shankly the one who has made them successful was a socialist and said that he thought the way they should play soccer was isolationists you know that it was a team game and that everyone was equal in that you had to learn to pass the ball. He also said that some people said so it was a matter of life and death but it was much more important than that. Yeah yeah cups now come out and said that he's also on the left and the care and it will manage it. That's the thing that is great for Liverpool a big left wing city absolutely Colleen Robinson we're running out of our allotted time before I let you go you're the publisher along with John Oakes and order books and you've got a new book out about Julian Assange in defense of joy of songe you published recently a book about the Labor Party and I would like you to please just give us the titles of the books tell us how people can get them and how they can be in touch with or what you're trying to do with or books the book on songs that we're publishing we go to a party coming up to launch it in New York next week it's called In Defense of Julian Assange and he said he'd buy a cow today. Who is a writer and. Activist in London. And Margaret counsellor who is a lawyer in New York. And it's got a huge list of prominent people. From different angles in Maine the original pieces as to why. Has to be defended you know he's a very polarizing character. But I think increasingly people are realizing that what the trumpet ministration is trying to do to him. Is the major threat to press freedom you know he's facing a 175 years in a supermax with basically being a publisher and I think from. The New York Times to The Washington Post right across the board actually people are beginning to realize that if this is allowed to happen to Julian Assange on. Publishers everywhere risk so I think this is quite an important. And we will say go to. People Get Ready which is a book setting out what we need to be talking about if there's going to be a Labor government in Britain. Because in a way it's going to be a struggle to get a Labor government it's going to be that's going to be nothing as to what's going to be involved if it succeeds. The British establishment is going to be happy on this and how you deal with a civil service where the highest levels of the civil service are basically hostile to your program where the Bank of England is a enormous player in the financial system obviously he's completely dominated it it's high levels by Tories he's a really big questions so this book at have to dress a dress that isn't there and open up a discussion on the left about how we might handle common Robinson has been a real pleasure to have you on disorder we hope that our dreams come true with Germany Corben in the Labor Party would really change world history we should pay attention to this because the parallels with what's going on in the United States are directed obvious and we can learn something from this so we thank you very much for coming down to our studio here in New York and and being our guest on wander sorter Good luck can you take it easy thanks very much you know you know. Many of. The recently released. And active young gun toting Harriet Tubman bridges and faces down slave owners directed by cost. A completely bad ass woman the new film shows sides of the legendary tub and the contrast with how we remember her. This is the 1st feature film focusing on the legendary Underground Railroad leader the filmmakers may never twin sure accuracy given that many myths about Tubman have circulated over the years the 1st biography about her scenes in the life of Harriet Tubman by Sara Hopkins Bradford included many an accuracy such as the number and nature of her rescues that set the stage for more inaccurate accounts to come. Joining us today to talk about Harriet Tubman and the issue of the slave to women is Professor Jessica Millward. She's an associate professor in the Department of History at the University of California Irvine her research focuses on slavery in early America African-American history as well as women and gender her 1st book Finding charities folk in slave can feed black women in Maryland was published in 2015 by the University of Georgia Press Professor Millward welcome to Law and Disorder Professor Millward welcome to Law and Disorder thank you for having me as the author of a book on and slave to women what does Harriet Tubman stand for in your mind. Every government. African-American history that people often don't know and that that African-Americans were actively engaged in trying to. You know about running away whether or negotiating or trying Harriet. That. African-American people fighting for their own freedom. In your book Finding charities folk in slaves in free black women in Maryland you cite the importance of honoring and remembering and slave women by telling their stories and by speaking their name do you think the movie accomplished that. Through writing and. Harriet Tubman. Write about her life into being American. Is that might happen and they did motion picture. Her. Make it impossible to escape the area and that's a crime so I I do think that that kind of work that kind of work I thought what you said a moment ago was so striking in the movie when you have at the end of the movie Harriet who's really come into her own as a fighter and a leader leading hundreds of black soldiers down to Alabama on a raid against the slavers it was really quite a dramatic moment in the movie. It was her magic moment and the beautiful thing about that my. Bad is true that it's not made up it's not like it's like. You know here and you know Django Unchained that actual story an actual moment that happened I think in quite a while I got a little teary eyed even though I know how the movie and even though I know that ever there's a controversy I get a little choked up at saying you know me too you know I don't think that people realize I didn't realize you know Harriet came from Maryland and she actually lived only 100 miles from Pennsylvania which is a free state and she escaped to Pennsylvania and she came back 6 or 7 times to help other people particularly her family get out of Maryland into freedom and then yeah and I was wondering could you tell us. Every star just Marilyn. So slavery started in Maryland almost at the steps in Maryland like Virginia that passed very early on that indicated that the status of the child would follow that the mother Virginia passed that law in 662664 Maryland was even stricter they passed a law saying any person. Of African descent or any person that had a black parent would actually be enslaved so even though slavery was kind of hand in hand in Maryland the other thing that people don't realize is there was also a burgeoning free black population that comes about by the time we get to the 19th century including her husband. In the black including exactly Marilyn is the place where the production of tobacco requires around labor but Maryland which is to producing wheat that doesn't require unsafe people year round for many flavors would either liquidate their human property or they would hire them out and in the middle of all the black people then are able to earn actually an actual wage in some cases and buy their own freedom and so you have this privatization of free and incite people mixing all the time even though here it was only a 100 miles away from freedom she actually was experiencing freedom in the lives of people she know tell us who Charity Folks is in how you became interested in her. So Cherokee folks was an enslaved black woman she was in slave in Maryland an apple of Marilyn she was born and about 17 the 7th through the American Revolution and after the American Revolution people right Charity Folks were being freed at a pretty large rate as I described because Marilyn makes the. Shift between tobacco and into wheat charity actually earns her freedom by caring for her owner's nephew and there's a story that the owner or you don't want to charity is great act of gratitude and benevolence I actually argue that charity and her husband were trying to buy their freedom for quite some time the point being said is that charity from not only was able to secure her freedom but she actually secured the freedom of her children and her grandchildren in the course of 30 years her entire family was actually free for freedom is an immediate freedom takes a while but Charity Folks was able to secure the freedom of the extent the generation and how did I meet her I met Charity Folks through 2 documents there were exactly 2 paragraphs written about and I met her through a Freedom document it actually gave freedom to her children and her grandchildren and so I like that there's a story and I follow the paper trail for a long time didn't exist I I scoured every archive I could not find anything more about charity folks and then. As luck would have it I decided to step outside the archives something historians don't do and I decided to ask local Jenny ologist what they knew about charity for come to find out I had a lot of the documents the entire time I just did not know how the story fit together it was effective work academic detective work when you say you had some of the story in front of you do you mean there were references to her without her name in it. What I mean because like very discombobulated dislocated I don't want to say the strike families because I'm actually on the side of scholars who think that despite all African-Americans kept strong family ties but you have multiple people with different last names if they have a last name at all for example own charity folks had 2 children with the last name of Jackson she had 3 children with the last name though from then she had other free black family members that married into the family so I had a freedom document from her I had another document with her son in law William Bishop his freedom his freedom certificate but I didn't realize that they actually weren't related so I had basically records of the free black community in Annapolis I just did not know how it fit together for a very long time. You know we think of freedom in the context of terms but as an individual act you write is really a communal act so. I believe that and maybe this is my romantic view that some people are always concerned about the community but what the evidence shows just like Harriet Tubman went back and forth to free her family the evidence showing that African-Americans were very engaged in trying to buy their family members out of slavery or they were engaged in running away together I think that as Americans in particular there's this notion of the rugged individualists who you know follow this capitalist system and it's like survival of the fittest enslaved people really felt that this was a communal endeavor if someone ran away and they were caught they were brought back and punished in front of the community so the slave holders could instill fear in everyone else to want to run away if people did run away and they stayed away they become a little bit of a local hero and fight people also told stories to one another that traveled through what we call the you know now we call it the grapevine and they knew of people who resisted slaveholding in any way they could so I do think that it was a communal effort and it was celebrated and equally feared if someone did run away you know Harry is but this is what the movie gets wrong the movie actually has Harriet have been waiting for and she chose not to tell him she was running away because she didn't want him to be put in any kind of compromised position if they were caught he actually never wanted to run away with Harriet he felt that they might not be successful and he worried about the repercussions that would bring to her family if they ran away he worried about them getting caught and most importantly he worried about if they were caught would he be returned into back into enslavement So he actually never wanted to run away and. You know the movie brings that out and then of course they want to have a child and they've got to leave. Opinion from a lawyer saying if they had a child the child would be free they took the legal letter to the this really vicious slave master owner and he read the letter and then tore it up and that was what in the movie anyway it's shown to be the triggering force that got Harriet to split and she runs away she gets trapped the bad guys have her on a bridge and they're out either side of the bridge she jumps into the river is there truth to that escape. I actually have not evidence of that. In the account but I mean here it is very out. Of that house yeah actually made it to freedom you have to remember at the time that Harriet Tubman Ok and then she goes back she then becomes an abolitionist right and she's been on the speaker circuit with people like Frederick Douglass and she's very secretive about how she actually finding made it nor the and he speaking and slavery is still in full effect right because you don't want to give away the freedom route though I have actually never heard that account but you know it works for the movie. And they had to do something they had to do something dramatic at the Hollywood you know since we are a legal show can you talk about what types of evidence slaves were able to muster to prevail in the lawsuit. What is crazy here is a population that not they legally are not supposed to read and write they could. Find themselves in a lot of trouble it was you know discovered that they couldn't read or write but they. Write they listened so indicate the Charity Folks she lived in the house where her owner would actually well known lawyer so they could leave. And they hear things you know they my look like they're not paying attention but they hear things in order to mount the case this is what they did right Jessica No word version of. It 9 out of 10 cases. They often need an abolitionist lawyer or something who someone who was sentimental and loyal to the many abolition of society actually or but legal fees for inflate people. To bring petition now in the case of Harriet and people like her 1808 Maryland passed the law the state of Maryland passed a law saying that any child born to an enslaved woman the status of that child had to be determined at the time as a child and what this means is slave owners are very invested in keeping generations of enslaved people as their property rights but because of the way the laws were shifting specifically with the end of the. International slave trade in 1808 there had to be a way to ensure that there would be generations of people enslaved so if the slave holder for example I mean let's think about this logically. 0 at the time a slave being born would go to court and say and now all these future generations are going to be in slave or free all this means is there was a loophole there was a loophole that if people had heard or they were told for example that they they would be free to discern dating it's called gradual manumission or their children would be free some of them had the resources to get the aid of local abolitionists Sidey or they knew people who actually knew how to read they knew where the the copy of the legal document were stored and they would find access to this legal document and presented in court and you would be amazed how many documents in last will and testament in manumission record you will see that actually slaveholders do delineating at the time Diana reaches age 21 she will be freed or at the time you know John reaches 35 he will be freed in slave people don't normally. Normally had more success bringing freedom so that if they were one they could prove that they were born of a free free woman similar to Brazil Brazil have free will. Or to if they could in some some ways prove that they've been buying their freedom and 3 what's very interesting people who were actually freed by their own are often freed after they were no longer economically profitable for the owner so women were freed after their their childbearing years. Which was typically after 21 right in the 21st century we think about 21 I think actually too young to even start a family when saying women were almost past their reproductive the prime reproductive capacity and then in slave men rotten fruit after the age of 35 when they were physically a bit weaker and couldn't produce as much for the flavor holder so then for a wrong answer that since it's a legal show I mean it's still it's still shorter than a legal brief that was an actual answer thank you we're speaking with Professor Justin Millward at the University of California just this figure astounded me when I heard and I'm going to ask you so you can educate our audience how much was a slave worth. Well I'm so glad you asked that question but we used to think it was you know $200.00 or $300.00 and that was still a lot for the time but I believe in the movie the mistress talks about you're going to have to refresh my memory but she did the figure of about $800.00 or $900.00 she put a price and that's pretty consistent for those that want to read more particularly about pricing I highly recommend the book like Diana Rainey bury the pride for their pound of flesh and I know we're talking about my book but I would just say that this book talked about the price of enslaved people from from birth to actually death and beyond their life in the grave because people don't realize that enslaved people there by the are actually sold to medical schools for experimentation so that entire book is much more background to the price of enslaved people than I could ever do can you talk for a minute about the burden smidgen slaves women faced that men did not the 1st burden that they faced right is the fact that they were female and a very. Violent society where if film is there they 1st menstruated in flame in flavor assumed they were women and it was not unheard of for a young slave holder or the son of the plantation to go to the lake cabins and and he and his friend break the young girls and right in the community was often told that young girls should not talk about when they 1st lead because that would signal that then it wasn't perverse to then go and break your own property and sometimes young girls were bleeding if they did you know 78 and 9. Sally Hemings was 13 years old when Thomas Jefferson took her to France and sexual relations ensued and people like to say that that was a. Consensual relationship I mean. I've never subscribed to that so the 1st is sexual sexual violence they weren't like men and boys were also victimized but not at the rate of Insight The other issue was because the status of the children from that of the mother women were most likely to stay with the child. If they are freed they're often freed with their child so they go into freedom with the responsibility of having to care for their child and the other issue is that they think women sometimes were in closer contact with the slave mistress so if you're if they for example were victimized by the slaveholder the master they're also in constant contact and we see that don't they're in constant contact with the great Mr. She can't exactly revenge on her husband the exact kind of thing is that women you know there was a vitriolic speech by this man of owner's wife who he just. Jumped on and wanted to see her caught and tortured or killed. Absolutely because it's easier to punish and play person that it is to you know fight back you're with your you know fight back and if you're out and remembered about the night. Where women are under the carpet you're a man right and you're a patriarchal don't wear one back or thereabout and they certainly don't have any legal right to partner in property Professor it's really been a pleasure to meet you and to talk to you about a bit of the history of women in slave the book that Jessica Miller wrote is called Finding surety is folk in slaves and free black women in Maryland we recommend the book I would read for Haven't you I wanted to sort of Jessica thank you so much thank you for having me. This segment or any other is. Born. Love community radio when you're excited about the groundbreaking programming. 89 point one is putting on here and screaming at k. And us paid out a large team please consider donating your car or vehicle to sustain people powered radio we are committed to using your donation to support dynamic programming and alternative news and news to transform with intelligent. Pledge to do our best to maximize your tax contribution and get your vehicle into the hands of an activist or a person need a transportation to donate your car by going to. A we're calling. You a 31100 do it today support your value k. And his days programming the stronger your vehicle donate today. As metaphor for strengthening the lives of black and brown girls what I wanted to do with this book was bring the Blues out of the sort of space of just being seen as a musical genre but really seen as an opportunity to reform pedagogical practices that really transform outcomes for girls. That's Minnick Morris talking about her new book sing the rhythm dance a blues education for the liberation of black and brown girls then fine it is raging in California and some are saying the profit driven utility ownership model just isn't working we talk with Ben Ehrenreich about his article in The Nation California is burning nationalize p.g. Any That's all coming up on today's writer's voice thanks for joining us this hour on this station and writer's voice net I'm host and producer Francesca Rianna. And hey do you know you can go to writer's voice dot net to sign up for our free pod cast and weekly newsletter find extra content there links look at SERPs and extended interviews. When we last talked with minicom r s it was about her acclaimed book push out the criminalization of black girls and schools in her new book sing a rhythm dance a blues Maurice reimagines what education might lose.
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