And brought down the Confederate Flag. As she climbed down with the flag in hand, she said, in the name of god, this flag comes down today. In the name of god, this flag comes down today amy we were at the jail where bree newsome was taken in columbia. We will speak with the supporters who gathered there before her release. Then we remember the legendary folk musician and activist pete seeger. Realize that Little Things lead to biggerhings. That is what it is all about in this wonderful parable in the new testament, the sower scattered seeds, some get stamped on and dont grow. Some fall and the rocks and they dont grow. But some seeds fall on Hallowed Ground and they grow and multiply thousandfold. Who knows where some good little thing that you have done may bring results years later that you never dreamed up. Amy all of that and more, coming up. This is democracy now democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. In this holiday special, we begin with the words of frederick douglass. Born into slavery around 1818, douglass became a key leader of the abolitionist movement. On july 5, 1852, in rochester, new york, he gave one of his most famous speeches, the meaning of july fourth for the negro. He was addressing the rochester ladies antislavery society. This is James Earl Jones reading the historic address during a performance of howard zinns voices of a peoples history of the United States. He was introduced by howard zinn. Frederick douglass, once a slave, became a brilliant and powerful leader of the antislavery movement. In 1852, he was asked to speak in celebration of the fourth of july. Fellowcitizens, pardon me, and allow me to ask, why am i called upon to speak here today . What have i, or those i represent, to do with your National Independence . Are the great principles of Political Freedom and of natural justice, embodied in that declaration of independence, extended to us . And am i, therefore, called upon to bring our humble offering to the national altar, and to confess the benefits and express devout gratitude for the blessings resulting from your independence to us . I am not included within the pale of this glorious anniversary. Your high independence only reveals the immeasurable distance between us. The blessings in which you this day rejoice are not enjoyed in common. The rich inheritance of justice, liberty, prosperity, and independence bequeathed by your fathers is shared by you, not by me. The sunlight that brought life and healing to you has brought stripes and death to me. This fourth of july is yours not mine. You may rejoice, i must mourn. To drag a man in fetters into the grand illuminated temple of liberty, and call upon him to join you in joyous anthems, were inhuman mockery and sacrilegious irony. Do you mean, citizens, to mock me, by asking me to speak today . What, to the american slave, is your fourth of july . I answer a day that reveals to him, more than all other days of the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is a constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham, your boasted liberty, an unholy license. Your national greatness, swelling vanity. Your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless. Your denunciation of tyrants brass fronted impudence. Your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery. Your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are, to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy a thin veil to cover up crimes that would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation of the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of these United States at this very hour. At a time like this, scorching irony, not convincing argument is needed. Oh, had i the ability, and could reach the nations ear, i would today, pour forth a stream, a fiery stream of biting ridicule, blasting reproach, withering sarcasm, and stern rebuke. For it is not light that is needed, but fire. It is not the gentle shower, but thunder. We need the storm, the whirlwind, the earthquake. The feeling of the nation must be quickened, the conscience of the nation must be roused, the propriety of the nation must be startled, the hypocrisy of the nation must be exposed, and the crimes against god and man must be proclaimed and denounced. [applause] amy James Earl Jones reading Frederick Douglasss famous 1852 Independence Day address in rochester, new york. That was part of a performance of howard zinns voices of a peoples history of the United States. [music break] amy that is bree newsome singing staystrong a love song to freedom fighters, and its bree newsome were talking about today. This is democracy now democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Democracy now has just returned from South Carolina, where the massacre of nine africanamerican churchgoers by a white suspect who embraced the Confederate Flag has renewed protests to remove the confederate battle flag from outside the State Capitol on its grounds. Last tuesday, South Carolina state lawmakers agreed to debate removing the flag later this summer. But early saturday morning, a 30yearold africanamerican woman named bree newsome, with a helmet and climbing gear, scaled the 30foot flagpole and unhooked the Confederate Flag. As Police Officers shouted at her to come down, bree newsome shimmied to the top of that flagpole, took the flag in her hand and said, you come against me with hatred. I come against you in the name of god. This flag comes down today you come against me with hatred and oppression and violence. I come against you in the name of god. This flag comes down today amy bree newsome recited psalm 27 and the lords prayer as she brought the flag down. As soon as she reached the ground, she was arrested, along with james tyson, who had stood at the bottom of the pole to spot her as she climbed. News station wis spoke to bree newsome as she was led away in handcuffs. She told them, every day that flag stays up there is an endorsement of hate. And why did you do that . Because it was the right thing to do, and its time for somebody to step up, do the right thing. We have to bury hate. Its been too long. Its killing us, literally. We cant do this. We cant be warring with each other all the time. Its not right. Why not wait until lawmakers vote to take it down . What is there to vote on . Theres doing the right thing, and theres doing the wrong thing. Its time for people to have the courage. Everybody who knows what the right thing is to do, we have to step up in love and nonviolence. We have to do the right thing, or else it wont stop. Every day that flag hangs up there is an endorsement of hate. I prayed on it. And i was very afraid, but then i wasnt afraid anymore, because, you know, the lord calls us all to do different things. This is what he called me to do. This is what i do. Maam, what is your name . Bree newsome. Amy that was bree newsome speaking to wis, the local station in columbia. She was being escorted away by a black Law Enforcement officer. Bree newsomes action went viral and was seen around the world. Her bail fund has raised over 110,000. Oscarnominated filmmaker ava duvernay was among the many to hail her, writing on twitter i hope i get the call to direct the Motion Picture about a black superhero i admire. Her name is breenewsome. But within about an hour, a Maintenance Worker and state Security Officer had raised a new confederate battle flag on the Capitol Grounds. Bree newsomes protest capped a week which saw at least six predominantly black churches across the south destroyed or damaged by fire, at least three of them arsons. It came one day after president obama delivered the eulogy at the funeral for South Carolina state senator and reverend Clementa Pinckney at Emanuel Ame Church in charleston, South Carolina. He was speaking at the college of charleston, the arena that held thousands. Democracy now was there as the president called for the flag to come down. Removing the flag from this states capitol would not be an act of political correctness. It would not be an insult to the valor of confederate soldiers. It would simply be an acknowledgment that the cause for which they fought the cause of slavery was wrong. [applause] the imposition of jim crow after the civil war, the resistance to civil rights for all people, was wrong. It would be one step in an honest accounting of americas history, a modest but meaningful balm for so many unhealed wounds. It would be an expression of the amazing changes that have transformed this state and this country for the better, because of the work of so many people of goodwill, people of all races striving to form a more perfect union. By taking down that flag, we express gods grace. Amy that was president obama speaking friday before thousands of people at the college of charleston for the funeral for reverend and state senator Clementa Pinckney. That was one day before bree newsome took the confederate battle flag down on the Capitol Grounds in nearby columbia, the state capital. At 11 00 a. M. On saturday, the Funeral Service began for cynthia hurd, a 54yearold librarian killed in the charleston massacre on june 17 by the accused white shooter dylann roof. Meanwhile, in the capital, columbia, about two hours away Confederate Flag supporters held a rally in front of the newly replaced flag. Antiracist counterprotesters also attended, Standing Shoulder to shoulder with the flag supporters, asking passing drivers to honk the flag down. Democracy now was there. I spoke with the protesters on both sides. Heritage, not hate heritage, not racism heritage, not racism my name is william wells. And im flying this flag for the people who died, all of the people who died, anybody who died for this flag, period. Period. It aint got nothing to do with black, white, love, hate nothing. Amy are you opposed to slavery . Hell yeah, im opposed to slavery. That wasnt cool either. Amy so what does this flag means you . This means the 13 original colonies wanted to stay out of the United States government. Amy can i ask what your thoughts are, listening to him and this rally . What is your name . My names brailey. Amy and tell me the sign youre saying sayingyoure holding . Its to represent the nine people who lost their lives in charleston. Amy and what else does it say . It says, honk the flag down. Amy what are your thoughts about the Confederate Flag . It doesnt represent me, my people, my people. Whoa, whoa, whoa. My people, youre saying . My people as in african americans. Im an africanamerican woman. Youre a black american. Im an african american. Im a white american. Im married to a brown american. Excuse me, i was speaking. Im sorry. Youre right. Thank you. So, as an africanamerican woman, this flag i go to usc. And every time i have to walk past this flag, it hurts. Its not it doesnt make me feel good about being a south carolinian. Ive never been proud to be a south carolinian until this past week, because i see how great people are in charleston. Theyre really trying to fight for love. And i just want i dont want my children to have to grow up in South Carolina and see that flag that represents so much turmoil for african americans. And i understand people want to say its not a race thing, but to me it is. Flag for the americans who died flag for the americans who died my name is monifa lemons. What that flag means to me is were standing on a street right now that if you cross over that bridge, right . You know not to be there at night. If i cross over that bridge and i drive into a yard with a Confederate Flag, i know not to ask them for help if i have a flat tire. I just know that. Im not saying its true. Im saying that i know that. All right . Im saying that i know that for a fact. So, what we have to do is stop acting like we dont know that when somebody has a Confederate Flag in their yard, dont stop there. Yo, take it down take it down thats right lets go lets go take the flag down. Take it down. Take it down. This is just the first stepping stone. Amy and what does your sign say, sir . Oh, my sign, im going to let im going to let it show for itself. Amy but for people who are listening on the radio. Well, i cant believe i still have to protest this crap oh, my god. Oh, my god. Really, how many years are we still protesting it . How many marches . How many lives . How many lives . Thats the main part. How many more lives that we have to mourn over . Amy whats your name . My name is jalaludin. Im haze bergeron. Did you hear Lindsey Graham the other day on the floor of the senate say that like what happened in charleston was some mideaststyle hate . Like where has he been living , this whole time . Hes from South Carolina. Thats some South Carolinastyle hate, if you ask me. Thats some whiteass South Carolina racial hate. Thats all that is. Amy and what is your name . Stewart. Amy and why are you here today . Im here because a friend called me and said they were going to have a rally and andthat guy with the big flag over there, thats who called me. Amy whats the flag . Oh, the Confederate Flag. Amy do you think dylann roof did the wrong thing . What he did was give a black eye to the Confederate Flag by allowing the media and irrational people to say, well, that monument has got to come down because some nut killed somebody, which has nothing to do with that monument. The monument was not built over racism and over hatred. The monument was built because people died fighting for this state, just like the vietnam war memorial and world war ii. Amy thank you. They love the people that died for this state. Amy thank you. Do you . Amy thank you, stewart. Thank you. What is your name . Amy my name is amy, and im from new york. Amy what . What is your last name . Amy goodman. Goodman. Amy yeah. Are you jewish . Somebody told me that was a jewish name. Take it down take it down take it down whats the problem . My name is tom clements, and i live in columbia, born in savannah, georgia. Amy whos your greatgreatgrandfather . Well, i did this was i did this in 2008 when i came down on confederate memorial day, but i had a greatgreatgrandfather that was captured at the battle of spotsylvania, at the bloody angle and ive been there, which was just an awful, awful horrific massacre, basically. Ive another amy wait, and he was a confederate soldier . He was confederate from georgia. He was in this division, and they had this flag, which wasamy the 31st georgia volunteer infantry. Yes, from central georgia. He had five brothers. So there were six of them. Three of them were killed in the civil war. Amy so youre here with the folks that are waving the Confederate Flag . Oh, no, absolutely not. No, im totally against what they stand for. And i find that they dont really know the history. They havent even read the december 1860 reasons for secession, which were all about slavery. But i, my whole life pretty much, have had the same viewpoint, that the flag should be taken down. I like to pitch it that weve been fighting the civil war down here since the war was over. I mean, 150 years. We just commemorated it here in South Carolina. Its time to get beyond it. Amy meanwhile, down the road from the Capitol Grounds at 2 00 p. M. On saturday at the owl than Glenn Detention Center in columbia, a bond hearing was held for bree newsome and james tyson. They were charged with defacing state property, which can carry three years in prison and a 5,000 fine. About a dozen supporters waited in the lobby of the jail for their release, including fellow activists from north carolina, where bree newsome lives. I spoke with some of her supporters. What were your feelings as you watched the Confederate Flag being taken down on the property of the State Capitol . As you can see my glee, it was one of the most liberating and Beautiful Moments that i have known in all my 25 years of life, besides my daughter being born. To see that flag actually come down and all of the things that it represents being taken down by a strong black woman was one of the greatest symbols symbolic images that one person could ever witness, i feel yeah. Amy that was very interesting. During this whole past week after the massacre of the nine emanuel parishioners and their pastor, you had the American Flag above the State Capitol the South Carolina flag above the State Capitol, both at halfmast. Mmhmm. Amy and right next to them you flying strong and strong. And i think what it symbolizes hurts amy the confederate battle flag yeah, yeah. Amy flying at full mast at halfmast, full mast. Right . Flying free, while the people who were murdered are laying under the casket, right . While youre viewing peoples caskets and viewing the people while theyre laid to rest, you can look up, and although there was a black curtain, you still know what was on the other side of that curtain. Amy well, you had to walk past the Confederate Flag, right . Flag, to even get there. So some people i know personallymy friend waited two hours under the Confederate Flag, right . And we see the pictures of the murderer, and hes holding these Confederate Flags with so much glee and joy and pride. And its just like, why would we allow this to continue to stand . Why would our legislators, our councilmen, our mayor, the president . He was here. He could have taken it down himself if he really felt compelled to. Just saying. Amy you mean by executive order . By executive order, yes. My name is corine mack. Im the president of the charlottemecklenburg naacp. I was notified this morning that one of my chairpeople was arrested, so i came down to ensure that she was ok and to give her some support. Bree newsome is the chair of our social media and the cochair of our young adults. Amy what does the Confederate Flag mean to you . Hate and segregation. It doesnt mean anything american at all. And in fact, when you lose a war anywhere else in the country that flag is not allowed to be flown anywhere. So why should we allow it here in the United States . Amy why dont you tell us your name . Hi. Im karil parker. Amy and you came out here on your own to the Detention Center . I did. I came out here to show my support for bree, that this is this is not her battle alone that we stand with her. She did what many people have not had the courage to do, and that we are proud of her, that we support her. Whatever she needs, we are here for her. And i wanted her to know that, and thats why i came. But it doesnt matter how you feel about whether she should or should not have done it. She did it. Its done. And it needs to come down. And she has done what our governor hasnt had the courage to do, what our General Assembly hasnt had the courage to do. She went up there and did what had to be done, when it needed to be done. Amy its over 100 degrees here. Im looking at your tshirt. Can you tell us what it says . What it says, it says, dream like martin. It says, lead like harriet. It says, fight like malcolm. Think like garvey. Write like maya. Build like madam c. J. Speak like frederick. Educate like w. E. B. Believe like thurgood, who was from here might i add . , challenge like rosa. Amy are you going to be adding another name to that list . Yeah, yeah. Were going to snatch down like bree. Amy so, carol, youre from columbia. This is my home, born and raised. Amy and so youve seen this flag for a very long time. Ive seen this flag, yes. Amy this well the particular , flagpole. Mmhmm, i have. And that flag doesnt mean any more today than it meant two weeks ago. That flag has always meant hate. And now dylann roof has just brought that hate to the light. Its not a secret. That flag has always meant hate. It meant hate when i was in high school. I have no problem with you wearing your flag if you want to wear it on your tshirt. I have a problem with it standing in front of what is supposed to be our state house our state house grounds. Thats a problem, because it may mean heritage to you, but if it means hate to me, it doesnt diminish what it means to me. It still means oppression. It still means hate. It still means slavery. And that just thats not going to change. Amy tamika, was there a discussion about whether to wait for the South Carolina legislature to take their time in a debate . So weve noticed that they have been pushing it off for a very long time, since everything started to happen. And we just didnt have time for it, basically. I think thats how we summarize and use that, right . They still its ambiguous, right . Theyre going to wait. Theyre going to take it to house, and then theyre going to stop, and then theyre going to come back to it. And it might have not been until the end of july or august, and then we dont even know what theyre going to rule. So, the country will be waiting around to figure out what it is, and they might not even favor in the removal of the flag. Amy tamika lewis, karil parker and corine mack, speaking outside the jail in columbia South Carolina. Bree newsome and jimmy tyson were both released from jail on saturday afternoon after supporters posted the requisite 300 of their 3,000 bond each. Their next Court Appearance is july 27 in columbia, South Carolina. We spend the rest of the hour remembering pete seeger. If i had a hammer, id hammer in the morning, id hammer in the evening, all over this land, id hammer out danger id hammer out a warning, id hammer out love between, my brothers and my sisters, all over this land. If i had a bell, if i had a bell, ring it in the morning id ring it in the morning ring it in the evening ring it in the evening, all over this land ring out danger ring out danger, ring out a warning ring out a warning, ring out love ring out love between, my brothers and my sisters, all over this land. If i had a song, if i had a song sing it in the morning, sing it in the morning sing it in the evening [music break] amy the legendary folk singer and activist pete seeger died in january 2014 at the age of 94. For nearly seven decades, pete seeger was a musical and political icon who helped create the modern American Folk Music movement. In the 1940s, he performed in the almanac singers with woody guthrie. Then he formed the weavers. In the 50s, he opposed senator Joseph Mccarthys witch hunt and was almost jailed for refusing to answer questions before the huac, the house unamerican activities committee. Pete seeger became a prominent civil rights activist and helped popularize the anthem, we shall overcome. He was also a vocal critic of the vietnam war and inspired a generation of protest singers. Later in his life, pete was at the center of the environmental and antinuclear movements. With his wife toshi seeger, pete seeger helped found clearwater a group to clean up the hudson river in new york. Toshi seeger died last year, just weeks before their 70th wedding anniversary. In 2009, pete seeger and Bruce Springsteen performed woody guthries this land is your land on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial at an inaugural concert for barack obama, when he first became president. Pete seeger last joined us on democracy now in august of 2013. Well play highlights from that interview later, but first i want to turn to pete seeger in 2004, when he joined us in our firehouse studio at democracy now i asked pete seeger to talk about his time serving in the military during world war ii. I first wanted to be a mechanic in the air force. I thought that would be an interesting thing. But then military intelligence got interested in my politics. My outfit went on to glory and death, and i stayed there in kiesler field, mississippi picking up cigarette butts for six months. Finally, they let me know, yes theyd been investigating me opening all my mail. Amy pete seeger, when you came back, they continued to investigate you. Well, i have assumed most of my life that if there wasnt a microphone under the bed, they were tapping the phone from time to time and opening my mail from time to time. Who knows . Amy but it was more than that wasnt it . Well, sometimes theyd have picket lines out, but, you know, in a crazy way all it did was sell tickets. I remember one concert did not sell out. My manager said, pete, we should have gotten the birches to picket you. Then it would have sold out. Amy im looking at a transcript of the house unamerican activities committee, august 18 1955, when they started off by saying, mr. Taverner said when and where were you born, mr. Seeger . You actually answered that question. Well, i wish i had been more spoken up more. I just did what my lawyer, a very nice guyhe says, dont try to antagonize them. Just dont answer these questions, because if you answer this kind of question, youre going to have to answer more questions. Just say you dont think its legal. Well, i said, i think ive got a right to my opinion, and you have the right to your opinion. Period. So eventually, i was sentenced to a year in jail, but my lawyer got me off on bail. I was only in jail for four hours, and i learned a folk song. They served us lunch, a slice of bread and a slice of bologna and an apple, and the man next to me was singing, if that judge believes what i say, ill be leaving for home today. The man next to him says, not if he sees your record, you wont. But thats an old african melody, you know. Its in many, many africanamerican folk songs. Amy now, you were sentenced to a year in jail . And a year later the Appeals Court acquitted me. Ironically the contradictions of life still amaze me the judge who acquitted me, the head judge, there were three judges, head one was irving kaufman, the man who sentenced the rosenbergs to the chair 10 years earlier. But he acquitted me. He said, we are not inclined to lightly disregard charges of unconstitutionality, even though they may be made by those unworthy of our respect. However, i feel that both my wife and i feel were lucky to be alive and lucky to be on good terms with our neighbors, and in the little town where we live, people shout out, hi, pete hi, toshi and id like toi wish i could live another 20 years just to see things that are happening, because i believe that women working with children will get men to wake up to what a foolish thing it is to seek power and glory and money in your life. What a foolish thing. Here we are theres a politician in my hometown, a very nice guy. He used to be a shop steward for the union in the local factory but for 20 years he represented our town in the county legislature. And he said, pete, if you dont grow, you die. 1 00 in the morning i sat up in , bed and thought of the next question. If thats true, if you dont grow, you die, doesnt it follow the quicker you grow, the sooner you die . Nobody is facing up to that question, but its very definitely true. Now the first step in solving a problem is to admit theres a problem. Then we can argue about ways it could be solved. I suppose one person will say, well, let a few people have trillions of dollars and the rest of the people obediently do the work, and the people in charge will see that everything is done right. On other hand, i think what was in the declaration of independence is true now just as it was then. Those great lines, theyre written by ben franklin, you know, not jefferson. We hold these truths to be selfevident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these rights are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that when any government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it. Amy pete seeger, can you tell us about we shall overcome . I thought, in 1946, when i learned it from a white woman who taught in a union labor school, the Highlander Folk School in tennessee, that the song had been made up in 1946 by tobacco workers, because they sang it there to strike through the winter of 1946 in charleston, South Carolina, and they taught the song to zilphia horton, the teacher at the labor school. And she said, oh, it was my favorite song. And i printed it in our little magazine in new york, peoples songs, as we will overcome in 1947. It was a friend of mine, guy carawan, who made it famous. He picked up my way of singing it, we shall overcome, although septima there was another teacher there, septima clark, a black woman. She felt that shall like me, she felt it opened up the mouth better than will, so thats the way she sang it. Anyway, guy carawan in 1960 taught it to the young people at the Founding Convention of sncc, student nonviolent coordinating committee, sncc for short. And a month later, it wasnt a song, it was the song, throughout the south. Only two years ago, i get a letter from a professor in pennsylvania, who uncovered an issue of the United Mine Workers journal of february 1909, and a letter there on front page says, last year at our strike, we opened every meeting with a prayer, and singing that good old song, we will overcome. so its probably a late 19th Century Union version of what was a wellknown gospel song. Ill overcome, ill overcome ill overcome some day. Amy you sang it for Martin Luther king . In 1957, i went down to highlander. Zilphia was dead, and myles horton, her husband, said, we cant have a celebration of 25 years with this School Without music. Wont you come down and help lead some songs . So i went down, and dr. King and reverend abernathy came up from alabama to say a few words, and i sang a few songs, and that was one of them. Ann braden drove king to a speaking engagement in kentucky the next day. And she remembers him sitting in the back seat, saying, we shall overcome. that song really sticks with you, doesnt it . But he wasnt the song leader. It wasnt until another three years that guy carawan made it famous. Amy 1967, you made your stand against the vietnam war clear on the smothers brothers comedy hour. Can you talk about that . The smothers brothers were big, big success on Cbs Television and way back the year before, i think in the spring of 1967, they said, cbs said, anything we can do for you . You are at the top. What can we do to make you happier . They said, let us have seeger on. Cbs said, well think about it. In october they said, you can have him on. I sang this song waste deep in the big muddy. The tape was made in california, flown to new york, and in new york, they scissored the song out. Now the smothers brothers took to the print media and said, cbs is censoring our best jokes and said censoreds best song and they got some publicity. And during november, december and january, the arguments went on. Finally in february no pardon me, late january of cbs 1968, said, ok, ok, he can sing the song. On six hours notice, i flew out to california. I remember singing a batch of songs from american history, songs from the revolution, like come ye hither, redcoats, you mind what madness fills. In our forest there is danger, theres danger in our hills. Fall the rifles, the rifles in our hands shall prove no trifle. I think i mentioned the hit song of 1814. It was the hit song. Oh, say can you see. And the song of the mexican war, green grow the lilacs all sparkling with dew. A love song. Thats why yankees are called gringos in mexico, from that song. And, of course, the civil war, several good songs, not just battle hymn of the republic, but a batch of them. The spanishamerican war, oscar brown taught me this song. American soldiers in the philippines, they were singing damn, damn, damn the filipinos. Crosseyed kakiack ladrones. And beneath the starry flag, civilize them with a crag, and go back to our own beloved home. I didnt sing that. But along come modern times. I sang waste deep in the big muddy, and this time only a station in detroit cut it out. But the rest of the country heard it, so seven Million People heard it. Who knows . Later that month, in late february, Lyndon Johnson decided not to run for reelection. The song would be probably just one more thing. I honestly believe that the future is going to be millions of Little Things saving us. I imagine a big seesaw, and at one end of this seesaw is on the ground with a basket halffull of big rocks in it. The other end of the seesaw is up in the air. Its got a basket onequarter full of sand. And some of us got teaspoons and were trying to fill up sand. A lot of people are laughing at us, and they say, ah, people like you have been trying to do that for thousands of years, and its leaking out as fast as youre putting it in. But were saying, were getting more people with teaspoons all the time. And we think, one of these years, youll see that whole seesaw go zooop in the other direction. And people will say, gee, how did it happen so suddenly . Us and all our little teaspoons. Now granted, weve got to keep putting it in, because if we dont keep putting teaspoons in, it will leak out, and the rocks will go back down again. Who knows . Amy do you see those cracks those places, today in mass media . I know you dont watch tv and all that, but, for example, you going on smothers brothers. Do you think that it is as constricted today . Not as constricted, no. Theres all sorts of Little Things going on. I understand this program may be on some tv stations. Ive got to find out where when, so i can see it. Youre right, i dont look at tv much, except to check on the weather for my skating rink. Im a readaholic and a magazineaholic, i get 40 or 50 magazines a month. And i read music magazines environmental magazines, union magazines, civil rights magazines. Who knows . Amy thats pete seeger in our firehouse studio 10 years ago in 2004. We continue remembering pete in his own words and song. [music break] amy pete seeger, singing waist deep in the big muddy on the smothers brothers comedy hour in 1968. This is democracy now democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman, as we continue to remember the life of pete seeger, the legendary folk singer and activist. We return to our interview back in 2004, a decade ago, in our firehouse studio. I asked pete seeger to talk about one of his most famous songs, where have all the flowers gone . Well, i was sitting in an airplane on my way to sing at Oberlin College. I was over ohio, and amy what year . Halfdozing. Year, 1955. And all of a sudden, three lines, which i had read in a book, took form. In the book, it simply said, where are the flowers . The girls have plucked them. Where are the girls . Theyre all married. Where are the men . Theyre all in the army. Its an old russian folk song. And the don cossacks maybe its a ukrainian folk song. Koloda duda is the original name, but i didnt know that. All i knew is i had read these three lines in the book and quiet flows the don by a soviet novelist. And all of a sudden, i had three verses. I didnt realize it at the time, i had swiped part of the verse from an old irish song. I had been recording a lumberjack song from the Adirondacks Johnson says hell , load more hay, says hell load 10 times a day. You can really see, i slowed it down. And i pinned the words to the microphone that night and sang them. And a few weeks later, i was walking down 48th street manhattan, stopped in at folkways records, said, i made up a new song. And then, moe asch propped a mic up in front of me and recorded it. And a few months later it was out on another lp. An Oberlin College student got the lp at a job at a summer camp, and the kids were fooling around with the verses where , have all the counselors gone broken curfew everyone. But by the end of the summer, he had made up the two extra verses we know. Where have the soldiers gone, gone to graveyards. Where have the graveyards gone covered with flowers. And the kids took the song back to new york. Peter, paul and mary were singing in the village, in greenwich village, and picked it up, started singing it. The kingston trio learned it from them. And about three years later, my manager says, pete, didnt you write a song called where have all the flowers gone . I said, yeah, about three years ago. He said, did you copyright it . No, dont guess i ever did. He he said well, you ought to. , the kingston trio have recorded it. Well, i got on the phone to dave guard. He was an old friend. He had started playing the banjo because he got my book, my bestseller. I mimeographed it first, but later printed it. Its printed 100,000 copies. How to play the fivestring banjo. He wrote me a year later. He says, ive been putting that book to hard use. I and two others have a group we call the kingston trio. So i called him up. Oh, pete, we didnt know it was your song. Well take our name off it. It was very nice of him, because technically, legally, i had, as they say, quote, abandoned copyright. But they took their name off and my manager copyrighted it. It pays my taxes these days, that song. Its been translated into dozens of other languages. Amy pete, could you play where have all the flowers gone . Well ah, maybe ill just sing the very, very last verse, because the contradictions of life still amaze me. You have to laugh, if you dont cry. Where have all the graveyards gone . Long time passing. Where have all the graveyards gone . Long time ago. Where have all the graveyards gone . Covered with flowers every one. When will we ever learn . When will we ever learn . Amy you still have your voice. Its in the cellar. Amy can you talk about getting older . Oh, its no fun to lose your memory or your hearing or your eyesight, but from my shoulders on down im in better condition , than most men my age. I can go skiing with the family, although i stick to the intermediate slopes. I dont try the double diamond. Amy pete, you sit here listening with headphones on. Youre a singer. Sound is very important. Its not as easy for you to hear things so clearly anymore. How has that affected you . Well, im singing to myself all the time, just humming or just in my brain. Im not making any sound. But admittedly, i cant unless i have earphones on, i cant really even with what they call hearing aids, i cant really hear music. I dont listen to cds. I dont listen to the radio. I dont listen to tv. And occasionally, when friends come around, ill join in with them, but my fingers are slowing down. I hear records that i made years ago and say, how did i ever play that so fast . On the other hand, these are exciting times. Theres never been such as exciting times. And win, lose or draw, its going to be very, very exciting. And i applaud what you are doing. I think what democracy now is doing is just fantastic. This couldnt have been done half a century ago, could not have been done. Amy why . Well, they didnt have the technology for it, i guess. So as i say, technology will save us if it doesnt wipe us out first. Amy well, final words, pete seeger, as we wrap up this conversation the role of music, culture and politics. Theyre all tangled up. Hooray for tangling amy well, i want to thank you very much for being with us. And for someone who isnt so hopeful who is listening to this right now, trying to find their way, what would you say . Realize that Little Things lead to bigger things. Thats what seeds is all about. And theres a wonderful parable in the new testament. The sower scatters seeds. Some seeds fall in the pathway and get stamped on, and they dont grow. Some fall on the rocks, and they dont grow. But some seeds fall on fallow ground, and they grow and multiply a thousandfold. Who knows where some good little thing that youve done may bring results years later that you never dreamed of . Amy pete seeger speaking a decade ago in 2004 on democracy now he last appeared on democracy now in august 2013. He talked about one of his most famous songs. The song, if i had a hammer, went all sorts of places that i could never go and im very glad. If i had a hammer, id hammer in the morning, id hammer in the evening, all over this land, id hammer out danger, hammer out a warning, hammer out love between, all of my brothers, oh, a woman said, make that my brothers and my sisters. lee says, it doesnt roll off the tongue so well. But she insisted. He said, how about all of my siblings . She didnt think that was funny. All over this land. If i had a song, dont need to sing the whole song. You can sing it to yourself, whether youre driving a car or washing the dishes or just singing to your kids. We havent mentioned children much on this program, but it may be children realizing that you cant live without love, you cant live without fun and laughter, you cant live without friends. And i say, long live teachers of children, because they can show children how they can save the world. Amy and we end with more pete seeger last august. We shall overcome. We shall overcome. We shall overcome some day. Oh, deep in my heart, i know that i do believe, we shall overcome amy youve been listening to pete seeger in his own words and song. He done in at the age of 94. 2014for copy of todays show you , can go to our website at democracynow. Org, and go there to watch all of our pete seeger shows, including his 90th Birthday Celebration featuring Bruce Springsteen and Bernice Johnson reagon and joan baez. Democracy now is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. Email your comments to outreach democracynow. Org or mail them to democracy now p. O. Box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now ] funding for christina cooks is provided by astavita, manufacturers of skin defense complex, designed to help protect skin from free radicals with Astareal Astaxanthin and tocotrienol. Astavita skin defense complex more than skin deep. Additional funding provided by kuhn rikon, manufacturers of swissmade tools for the kitchen. 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