Program well from just 30 percent you know but the vaccine takes 10 to 14 days to take effect so it's not yet clear if the epidemic is peaked 72 people have died of measles in some oh in recent weeks most of them young children a state of emergency declared following the outbreak which limits travel in gatherings has now been extended until nearly the end of the year Michael Bristow the leader of Britain's opposition Labor Party has apologised for his party's worst electoral defeat since the 1930 s. And a letter published in a Sunday newspaper Jeremy Corbyn said he was sorry that Labor had come up short in Thursday's election however writing in another paper Mr Coburn insisted that he won the arguments on fighting climate change increasing government spending and curbing corporate power. News from the b.b.c. . Nicaragua's National Assembly has approved a plan to nationalize a major petrol station company that was the subject of sanctions by the United States 2 days ago supporters of the move said it would ensure the supply of fuel to Nicaraguans the u.s. Treasury Department accuses the family of President Daniel Ortega of using the company d.m.p. To launder money the president or taker says the u.s. Is seeking to undermine left wing governments in the region. An earthquake with a magnitude of 6.8 has struck the island of Mindanao in the southern Philippines images posted on social media shows some damage to roads and buildings the same region was struck by 3 quakes in October and 1 in November the earth or it is in the state a vast northeast India have relaxed a curfew in districts affected by violent protests against a controversial citizenship law the new bill grant citizenship to refugees from religious minorities in neighboring countries the law sparked days of protest in India's northeastern states where many people fear it would allow outsiders to take their land and jobs on Saturday night one person died one more person died of their injuries and ceremony has taken place to dedicate the new national stadium in Tokyo which will be the main venue for the 2020 Summer Olympics and Paralympics the design by the Japanese architect can go Cooma features a wooden lattice structure that echoes traditional Japanese styles and blends in with the surrounding Parkland attending the event the Japanese prime minister Shinzo said the games would be a significant would be a significant moment for the country then. We have to make next year's Tokyo games an opportunity to share dreams and hopes to create a proud legacy to show Japan's power to the world and open up the future of this country. And that's the latest b.b.c. News. Hello and welcome to in the balance the program that they'd be hind the business and economic headlines I'm on weight loss are awesome in this edition mental health in the workplace the broad approach seems to be Don't Ask Don't Tell in the u.k. For instance a study found that more than 2 thirds of people who struggled with their mental wellbeing have never told their employer yet the World Health Organization estimates that depression and anxiety have a significant economic impact costing the global economy about one trillion dollars a year in lost productivity So what is an employer's role in all of this and does the workplace have a role to play in breaking down stigma if so how and what is good practice those are the questions we're going to try and answer with our panel of guests today so let me crack on and introduce some of Nikki Young is in the studio with me here she's the group managing director of a strategic communications company called Mother low salt with offices in London and Singapore Nicky Yes Sally make less is professor of organizational behavior and leadership at side business school at the University of Oxford and Mary Daniels is a u.k. Based on author and Coach welcome to all of you thank you thank you thank you not 2 of you have personal experience of a mental health crisis in and I want to come to your stories in just a moment but can I start with you Professor makers because chemically Europe's a meanings here when people talk about mental health at work what exactly are we talking about is it about being happy and not being stressed in your job or is it about mental illness what exactly do we mean when we talk about mental health work where you're right to ask because it is a very broad term that is used differently by different people in different circumstances so I mean it can mean how people are feeling it work their mental health at work are people feeling that they have a sense of wellbeing and they feel content with their work life and. Work environment but when we talk about in the context of people struggling with mental health issues it's normally referring to experiences of depression anxiety or extreme stress or cases of burnout or other often diagnosable mental health conditions Wright says it's a lot more than just being content and not stressed you know it's we're talking about what would be illness as well mental illness yes Mary Nikki you both have personal experience of this kind of start with you Mary what is your story yes. When I was roughly 24 years old I can just remember really hitting a wall I was running a business at the time it was going really well you know to the outside world my partner and my children and where we lived we you know everything looked as if we were flourishing and everything was going really well but inside I just was completely disconnected really numb doubts and from a series of events childhood traumas that sort of hit May What I realized afterwards was sort of postnatal depression also just lots of challenges with my mental health and mental well being where I couldn't correlate what I was feeling inside with what was happening externally and then I think one morning I just woke up and realized I wasn't even of that conscious that I'd had enough and took my son along with me and young son who's a baby and found myself on the side of Tower Bridge and just felt that the only option was to jump and it wasn't panicked I wasn't freaking out in that sense it was probably the calmest I've ever been in my life and it was a scary moment thankfully I didn't follow through with it supports Yeah everything really got me to that point obviously a very very traumatic thing also to look back to but it's something you. Openly talk about that's part of your work now isn't it it is I think because now growing up I was fostered for my early days and then moved back with my family who originally from Ghana West Africa I wasn't really aware of mental health or any challenges people that you could you know it wasn't spoken about and even after the events and actually not that long ago when my book was released just to talk about it within the family what it did is it just opened up a conversation and I found out how so many other family members had been struggling and yes I felt it important I think to speak about it writes about it and to let people know I think how far certain things can push if you don't pay attention to some of the early warning signs and just just to go about what saved you that day which I think just a mixture of things there that the bridge at that time in the morning is normally a completely empty I used to walk there almost every morning and at that time for some some might say bizarre Some might say synchronicity but there were tourists on the. Early And I think also with my son he is such a happy boy and he was smiling and laughing and I think a mixture between that and just something in me clicking I think so many things clicked that almost felt like I was being jerked back and pulled back and now you're Well I'm as well as I can be I mean I have my moments and I think there are times when I know especially when I start to get anxious or overwhelmed you know I've burnt out a few times I think I'm well enough to know I would never get myself to that situation again but I do still have to keep an eye on things because I can get lost in work or in the environment. Key test about your story is similar to to Mary Reilly I was working hard at my company you know I was I was the 1st employee side been there for many years and I prided myself that I had worked really hard to create a work culture that was nurturing and looked after its employees and where we're well known for that and I too had suffered from postnatal depression. We were going through a time of unprecedented growth and it coincided with us struggling to find talent good talent so you were struggling to find staff basically and we had a couple of senior leaders on maternity leave I started to step in and before I knew it in addition to mind job I was doing for people's job and I think that's that's quite normal when you feel you have such a vested interest in what I used to refer to my as my 1st baby it it all came together after a big event and then I had been the culmination of 2 months of intense work me doing a lot of those the stuff myself. The event was a huge success and on International Women's Day which is the day after I couldn't get out of bed I woke up and my body was paralyzed you have a breakdown I was having a breakdown and then at the time I was confused by the sensation it just kind of took my body and I felt I couldn't get out of bed I talked to my husband about it and he said Right it's enough I'm going to take care of this and he disappeared and I remember waking up with a fright about an hour later because he came through the front door and anxiety and panic overwhelmed me and the adrenaline got me out of bed and I rushed to the top of the stairs and I I said to him please tell me you haven't done it you haven't done you haven't find work that was the most important thing that was thinking of the attorney and he said to me it's time Nikki year you're going to stay home for a couple of months and get better and how will your employees at the time and why and how did they react they were come play were terrific I mean I'm very lucky because the 2 found I was the 1st employee and we we have common valleys and a value base which is to look after people who work for us and immediately on that day we agreed that I would take a couple of months off we also agree that while my husband are great together with my a chanter rector who I had employed and it was a very interesting situation to you know remove control from myself but my agent director said We won't be in touch it's important features focus on your son to switch off and I think that probably was the most difficult thing because I am a very emotionally achieving person I want to always be in touch and help people perhaps to my detriment I didn't at the time know when to stop but it was really good. To actually administer self care and your well now well again position I'm back in my position I went back to work after 2 months and I'm to Mary's point it's a constant journey I think and I'm very aware that many people fall back into clinical depression when they've suffered once before and all I know is that I never want to go there again so I actively work hard to look after myself and I'm selfish not selfish I often say that in the sense that now I know that I'm their son looking after me I can look after the others be them my family my friends were indeed people who work with me Mary how did your business or vibe that breakdown would you know the interesting thing is mine unfolded quite slowly so was I had that really awful moment on the bridge I started to self manage and find my own tools to bring in place I wasn't actually off work I still carried on but I mentally decided that I had to make some changes and adjustments and it happened over a long period of time I I really want to be honest with people I didn't people want talking about it so I didn't even know I had had a mental breakdown or it to me a long time to even come to that conclusion I want to bring Professor Sally makers back in here because I think the stories we're hearing here it shows how broad the experience of mental health and mental illness is and there is no sort of one trajectory for someone's illness so what what does that mean from the employer's point of view because you know everyone has a very individual experience of this Yes exactly and so what that means is there isn't a sort of one solution fits all and that what you need to do you know is I think you need to in basically good management anyways get to know your people and be aware of when someone's behavior thoughts to change work. Take a moment to check in with them to see how they are and to really listen and on that basis see if you can talk talk with them about what they might find helpful if they do you know talk about the fact that struggling with that something's going on but unfortunately research suggests that on the whole people don't talk about their mental health difficulties at work although it's incredibly prevalent you know one in 6 people is dealing with a common mental health condition that at any at any one time a very small percentage of those will feel comfortable talking about it and in fact the people they feel least comfortable talking to about are often the line manager in h.r. So we've got the situation a very prevalent set of struggles for people at work and fear because of the stigma around mental health issues of letting anybody know what's going on so you have to be really observant and attentive to people to even be able to get wind of what's going on you know or preferably to have good working relationships with your employees so that they feel able to come to you when they feel marriage of a crisis and that's it isn't it I mean you have to have a good working relationship that's easier if you have employees who have been there for a while but I imagine that you know these situations happen also in companies where perhaps there was a high turnover of $5.00 I think this is a Nikita's biz 2 points one. The importance of leadership with emotional intelligence is moving up the agenda and what Sally describes is the need for leaders who are no longer looking to take boxes in terms of process and are we doing things right in terms of this function achieving this role is actually empowering that direct reports to look at employees as human beings you know in the it's all about getting to know your employees and I come from the word go absolutely but also to read and to recognize that as a leader and as management that hard skills need to be supplemented by soft skills and by soft skill. I mean been able to recognize those emotional elements that essentially make an I'm a work force thrive Professor make lists I think the issue is though that this all is fine perhaps in companies that are slightly smaller where you know you can keep a tab on stuff but most organizations many organizations have hundreds and hundreds of stuff how do you manage mental health when you have hundreds and hundreds of staff while you create a culture where mental health is not stigmatized and where it's understood that it's going to be an experience that many many people in the workforce have and therefore just like physical health and everything else the organization needs to address this and have have routines in place and norms around it but make it something that can just be out there in the open but isn't the thing that's happening at the moment which I've seen in many reservations is that they'll they'll set up a phone line they say there's a you know a therapist at the end of the line if you have a problem just call that line or becomes a boss getting exercise is sort of a way way covered but they're not really dealing so you say dance and that's the danger I think that's a big danger because again taking boxes often people assume that that will achieve the job but today employees are digitally connected they have the opportunity to work for themselves employers no longer have the opportunity to hide behind take box retains and I speak as an employer it's important that you actually put into place practices that make a tangible difference and then work strategically as you would with a supply chain issue or an initial manufacturing plants and think of it as a business issue is when people think of it as with respects in h.r. Issues that perhaps a get sidelined to a department rather than being considered a business issue Nikky you have offices in London and in Singapore That's right the difference has it been. Very different the way people approach mental health in the workplace in the 2 different offices I think there is certainly a team in Singapore is very interested in the subject matter but I'm speaking with teams over that the way in which they approach it is different to the u.k. In that the phenomenon of saving face perhaps stops employees from coming forward in a way that they are starting to decern the u.k. That said they do emphasise this notion of stress and managing stress so that it doesn't then progress to anxiety or burn out a reminder that you're listening to in the balance from the b.b.c. With me man what I said also where we're discussing mental health in the workplace I want to tells you Professor Salim a place where we speak about to sort of situations really where the work causes the mental health issues but what about when the mental health issues or you know outside of work they're coming from completely different parts of people's lives employees lies what we're sponsibility then does the employer have does it change the situation in any way when the when the problem is outside of work yes for meth I think people will bring their mental health issues into work because they're people and they're carrying them and I think they used to be a sort of idea that people would leave certain parts of themselves at home about their emotions or you know mental health problems this kind of expected isn't anything like their house you know I think I think wonderfully is less expected now that there's more there's more realisation that people need to be able to bring more of themselves and work to be able to be good at work but there is a different set of responsibilities I think if you are in a organization which is really promulgating for practices which are making people's mental health worse you have a certain set of responsibilities around what you ask of people at work I think if people are coming in with preexisting mental health conditions I'm off I think it's very hard to tease those 2 apart so I mean it. My research there's usually an interaction of some early seeds of something which then get really amplified by the experience of of working and working in certain kinds of cultures but if people are bringing about that piece of themselves in then we owe it to them. Humans that we're employing we're expecting to to do good stuff for us to at least support them in trying to deal with it themselves for a period of time to accommodate them so that they can manage to sort themselves out or combine sorting themselves out with doing work and that's often something that an employer you know is very well placed to do and that it's really not all we're going to be a nice organization supporting people with a mental health or are we going to be a good effective you know money making enterprise if you're going to be a better organization with more productive people doing better in the marketplace if you have healthy people working for you well because let me ask you is there ever a tension there between making money and looking off to star Yes I think it is because as an m.d. I know that it's at the end of the year and I have a budget proportion of that goes towards people people can be training and development and then there's this mental health that is now being added to that is faith and I think the challenge is that as employers particularly small businesses you have to make choices and I think that's where it will be fantastic if government could offer tax relief for those employees who demonstrates detail of cat to employees is it helpful to have people talk about mental health work as if it were a disability Professor Sally made Liz Is it helpful to have it described or spoken about as if it is a disability I don't think it is in fact in some of the interviews I've done people have been very clear with me that this is a sort of case of you know maybe near a divergence or it's about having more you know accepting more diversity than other kind of diversity in the workplace Yes. Because it's something that anybody could get at any time and it's so different. Something from his experience of it might be absolute disabling other people who've got a bipolar for example have said I wouldn't give this up for anything because when I'm in my Mom It phases I'm so creative I get so much dom so it feels very problematic to regard it in a sort of blanket way as a disability even though it can be very disabling for good that's interesting that you think it should be a diversity issue. But it is it is yeah is that would you hope we would be moving towards Mary Yeah I mean I think I have to agree with labor is disability I think there's the bigger issue here is also the connotations of the way people are still struggling in a way that dealing with different levels of abilities and disability within the workplace that I think there's a stigma around that and also because mental mental wellness and mental health is a continuum of Sally was saying you know you can be really well one day and be really struggling a few days later depend on what's triggered that I think it could be dangerous to just put it in another space and label it as something way can get lost in that that world of what does that mean and I think it's finding balance and it is about you know I love what you were saying Sally about this sense of diversity it isn't pricing everybody's difference there is one thing I'm really strong I feel passionate about is we can be many things in a single moment at the same time and so it's really hard to know where this starts and stops and what is mental health what isn't I want to you and with a question to all of you what does a healthy working culture look like and profess to make this if I could start with you I think one where people can bring. Ideally their full self to work you know most of themselves to work and feel able to perform and why is that they feel is them at their best. Mary what do you think makes a healthy workplace I think a healthy workplace is really about nurturing your people and bringing out the best of them and looking at how do we co-create a caring co-chair where everyone is accountable and takes responsibility for what that means and that starts with sort of self-awareness at all levels so yes you need a leadership team that is driving that but you need to empower everyone to be able to speak up about what their needs are I think that's what I've loved doing work with the minds at work who've been really bringing this into the charitable organization that's a promoter meant to help in the workplace yes so that they're really sort of opening up these conversations and making people more conscious about what does a healthy workplace mane and look like for us as an organization because it's very different depending on your size what you're doing so it really needs to work for that group of people that organization and Nicky What's your opinion I think it's an environment where people feel that they don't have to hide from themselves and they feel that leadership understand and appreciate that it's mental illness is on equal level with physical illness and that culture is within business plans thanks to our guests today Nikki young group managing director of modern low salt Sally makers professor of organizational behavior and leadership at the University of Oxford and Mary Daniels a u.k. Based entrepreneur author and coach that's it from this edition of In The Balance and we're back again at the same time next week. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service in the us is made possible by American Public Media producer and distributor of award winning public radio content a.p.m. American Public Media with support from Progressive Insurance offering a way to buy a home insurance with her home quote Explorer tool custom quotes and rates are available online learn more at progressive dot com or 1800 progressive Now that's progress. This is a test of the Emergency Alert System. This has been a test of the Emergency Alert System on Colorado Public Radio. This week on crap science we're entering the little known world of insects a world where species seem to be disappearing faster than we can discover new ones one listener wants to know what would happen to our lives if the insects died out we would basically die because so many of our crops of $98.70 plants are permitted but can you imagine we we don't have the insects to get rid of off the face that would be rather unpleasant joined me money just isn't after the needs b.b.c. News with David Alston un climate talks that produce to end on Friday have continued all night in Madrid as negotiators try to patch up significant drifts over emissions cuts the Chilean government minister leading the discussions has appeared to delegates to show flexibility adding that a deal is close. The Palestinian group Hamas has condemned Israel's decision to prevent Christians living in the Gaza Strip from traveling to Bethlehem in the West Bank to celebrate Christmas Eve Israel has cited security concerns for its decision nearly every citizen in the Pacific nation as some aware has now been vaccinated against measles following a deadly outbreak of the disease the government says 93 percent of the population has been inoculated 72 people have died of measles and some are in recent weeks most of them young children an earthquake with a magnitude of 6.8 a struck the island of Mindanao in the southern Philippines 60 kilometers southwest of the city of devout images posted on social media shows some damage to roads and buildings. Nicaragua's National Assembly has approved the plan to nationalize a major petrol station company that was the subject of sanctions by the United States 2 days ago the Us Treasury Department accuses the family of President Daniel Ortega of using the company to launder money police in New Zealand say teams who conducted a further land search on White Island have been unable to locate 2 bodies still missing after last week's deadly volcanic eruption the leader of Britain's opposition Labor Party has apologised for his party's worst electoral defeat since the 1930 s. In a letter published in a Sunday newspaper Jeremy Corbyn said that he was sorry that Labor had come up short in Thursday's election. B.b.c. News. Hello and welcome to crowd science this is the show that would buy listeners curiosity Fortunately a source that plentiful and renewable for those who are new to the show we take a question about anything scientific and try and find says today we're looking at insect decline. With. My name is Daria Russian but living in the capital of Germany Berlin I want to crowd science to find out what is going on with our insects I have read that their numbers are declining around the world if this continues what will happen with our crops that are aligned and 6 for pollination as someone who is in the city is there anything I can do to help the insects is this something that you've noticed personally few insects or are you just going by articles that you've read it is hard to say I mean I think since I heard about it 1st last time I have paid attention a bit more and I am not a set for instance if you take a long trip out of town which we sometimes my do on a car you have far less insect dying in your windshield than you would normally do I remember cycling as a kids and when you go down this big hill near my house at speed you really have to keep your mouth shut because otherwise you just you just inhale a whole bunch of insects. And now not so much and then never really yeah I remember how my father always had to wash his car really really well as he would take like 4 or 5 hours from one time to another to normally from Moscow to relive to my grandparents up north and it would be completely covered in those like smashed yellow dead bugs and nowadays we would have 5 hour trip across Germany and very little of this would have. A recent scientific report shows that in the country where Daria lives Germany insect numbers have declined by 75 percent over a 27 year period and she's not the only one who's worried about the world's insects we put a call out to listeners all around the world to find out about their experiences with insects back in the day and now. Driving around in summer used to mean the front of the car was covered in insects today scarcely any even after hundreds of miles I went to rural school in a village on the Tell coast of South Africa as a scholar in the late 1950 s. And early sixty's I experienced a profusion of insects the volume was such that the windows of our preparation would be covered some wonder whether pesticides of the problem. Getting more rare possibly due to uncontrolled perfect side and less flowery plants. What is going on with our insects time to call in an old friend of the show the curator of fleas and flies at London's Natural History Museum and it's going to do is go on Instagram and I update people here not to be nothing else to be ever commit Callista is a woman who knows her stuff and uses that knowledge to police social media pointing out when people have misclassified a flaw is a b. And there was not that woman that got a tattoo and she's like look at Milo Now you've been you're like. Really bad I got a really nice bowl in Italy and then the guy and he obviously didn't begin config value and here that has them it isn't b. And I'm on the fly be and I might be fly which is great because I'd never advise you to be fired but Erica came into the studio to explain why the rest of us should love flies as much as she does most of us think of bees as the insect pollinator And granted they do. The majority of the work on important crops but fun fact 30 percent of the pollinating is done by flowing even the much hated must be. Very important pollinators all those products that people love like parsley and onions and mango and chocolate that fly pollination and they're just not given any credit. But if they dress up as beads to do it then you can you can forgive people for to me that's true but the things that plan night Chuck are your biting me is that everyone hates I bits I hate midges I hate chocolate specifically image that out there are about 17 pollinators of chocolate where pigs are a far. One is a tiny tiny one is a little micro muff as we call a really small math won a gold make another type of lie about 15 or 16 of them are these biting made. But we know so little about them so chocolate lover Oh not I think you can agree that bees and flies and morphs and other insects play a crucial role in pollinating important crops the work they do for free has been valued at $350000000000.00 but globally all the numbers declining. Humans have created a time in our earth's planet called the Anthropocene we've colonized a huge amount of the world to provide ourselves with resources that are inevitably going to have an impact on the other animals who share our earth everyone seems to have anecdotes but my producer and I've been hunting through the scientific literature and this shockingly little known about global decline of insects the insect community several 1000 entomologist like Erica recently met up at the entomological Society of America conference and everyone is on the same page finding way fewer of their chosen insects as vailable to study than they used to be our overall feeling is there is something very bad happening however because in sex the data has been quite limited be not so long term studies on birds and other mammals they like that but we are only beginning to catch up with the insects in the long studies. And we've all seen 1st hand the difference between you know an a brownfields die and their beautiful pristine forest and we know that we're killing them our problem is as well is that we don't feel know what's there you say we still don't know all of the species so there are a whole load of insect species that we've still haven't. Ok we thing was that it was 1.11 but 2000000 describe species of insects I found we think that's maybe 5 to 30000000 who we're talking big numbers of difference even if we aren't talking 5 you know we've been describing insects and 300 yes and we haven't even got halfway yet and they're dying out before faster than you can name them and we asked to find them it's a really sad thing I sit there looking at the undescribed material and a collection and from habitats I know no longer exist so you know they're they're from samples around the world cool in the 1930 s. $94.00 days and I'm like when you realistically as extinct species in that now and that's a really light. She's one of those. People quite sad that at this point you may be wondering how do scientists study tiny things like insects a simple way is to put up a white sheet and turn on a light and then wait 2 months and other light levels gather around start counting or if you prefer more complex methods you can build giant machines to suck them out of the air I've been to rock them stead research institute in the u.k. To see this bit of kit so I've brought you out to see one of our traps Richard Herring tim spent decades studying crop eating pest insects called a feeds and showed me around one of the gadgets he uses to measure the number basically it's a drawing top saw down vacuum cleaner you can hear it in the background all open the door and turn it off so that we can hear also. And it's one of 16 that we have around the country specifically for identifying a food it's pretty representative of what's in the air up to about to well at least 50 miles why you so with a fairly sparse number of troops around the country we've got a pretty good idea of what's going on. Over the whole country. Tiny insects can cause huge problems for us a fades eat a lot of our food crops but Erica found of the hope a fly says that insects are a really good way to fight insects you don't want baby flies and known as maggots and each baby Hope a fly will eat $400.00 a fades before it gets to adult hood so hope the flies have another service on offer pest control let's think about using natural enemies i.e. Some of the flies that go around eating things those are what we want to encourage that So fight flies with flies yet more flies are now going to telegram I had my thighs with flies. When they all of my e.t.a. Fit it lifted up in the air and then a fit guy and a lady sisters graduate so then this is how vital the Arab just sucking out the insides was if you took all the insects off the planet if we took all the insects off the planet we would basically die because so many of our crops are mated and so many plants are permitted we take all of that for granted but can you imagine we don't have the insects to get rid of our feces. That would be rather unpleasant. Can I use my absence gown Yeah go on I think of the biomass of the poor of an elephant every day I think is about 1000000 people so a lot of Peru and we didn't have the insects get rid of that add that to all the other animals on the planet when needed Yeah we always women through it and then add the fact that their decomposing bodies would be like swimming with dead animals and that saw stuff that the insects a lot of it they doing a lot of the major breakdown Ok and they converted it in for it to be usable for bacteria etc so they recycle. Just a reminder you're listening to crap science from the b.b.c. World Service and you've just heard a picture of a world without insects because we're tackling the topic of insect declawing. We don't have exact figures and we don't have the time to wait until we have exact figures we do have a good idea why then numbers are being decimated habitat loss invasive species spread by humans and the big one climate change Erica McAlister has been telling us about the many unsung species of insect like hover flies that are important for pollination she's not the only fan meet Tasha Tucker c.e.o. Of a long architect and champion of the bugs they're the underdog of the pollination community I mean I think that's why I was extra track that to them I'm originally from Philadelphia we love a good underdog rooting for the unsung heroes in life and fliers are exactly that is working on a device that will help us to collect crucial data about the flies and help growers and people who want to attract insects why hold the Flies Besides if I could bear adorable and really great pollinators there's something that's native to a lot of the crops that are so important. And do a really great job on them already so which crops we took them out as a lot of your Berry and crops in particular so strawberries and blueberries are some of the early crops that we've traveled on and then starting to move into almond and looking at the nut crop as well so can you tell me about how commercial pollination of a lot of these crops like almonds might actually work because I think a lot of us don't really think about it and you just assume that nature and sunshine and rain and insects or whatever natural pollinators just do that thing so you can imagine in February in the us almost every single commercial beehive in the country gets on the back of a truck. And then drives for days and days across this in the one tire country arriving in California just in time for the bloom season previous to that they were enjoying wild flowers and living their life in a normal kind of scenario and now they eat for 3 weeks and then they get packed up and they get moved on to cherries and then packed up again and moved on to citrus fruit and then packed up again to berries. So that by the end of the season when they return back home they're exhausted their colonies are completely devastated so besides pesticides which are damaging bees just the sheer method of how are using them for pollination is destroying the b.s.s. Well. There's about $2000000000.00 that spent each year on just pollination services on just printing and purchasing. $2000000000.00 in the u.s. Alone on a job in 6 used to do for free. With wising populations the demand for food is Annie going to grow and maybe it's time to give the bees a bit of a break foam is complete Tasha's device out amongst their crops and it will gather data on watches around insect wise and walk by doing it's easy. They controlled through a single user interface for farmers on app and they're distributed throughout an orchard and as part poor sions of the crop start to come into bloom you can imagine if there's a few different varieties of the same crop 1 May come into bloom slightly before another one you can start to target and direct the pollinators right where they need to be and as you need them in the next area you pull them into a flat area that you cover so it's not just you keeping them on the right crop you're keeping them in the base of the crop that is ultimately the bit that needs the pollination directly right now as opposed to later in the afternoon all of these nodes are connected and controlled by the farmer for example on an app on a small fight and they send out smells the right kind of flies like and if their own snuff pollinate is foam is can buy flies in a box but you need to control them otherwise they may just buzz off in the wrong direction you can imagine a strawberry farmer having their fields right next to oil see to rape rape to them is like McDonald's or k.f.c. It's a super quick fast easy meal so it's very easy for them to get distracted and go off on to another field so you want to keep them focused on right where you need them to be now are listening to Daria isn't a farmer but she'd like to know what she can do to encourage insects to stave off insect on my ged and do you magine these devices could be used by people in cities for example absolutely absolutely I'm a city girl myself and you know I think besides planting in my small areas window boxes and courtyards we can really start to look at ways to encourage as pollinators cities. Increasingly more of us around the world are living in cities. All grown in rural locations now Oleson and Daria lives in a city and she's wondering if there's anything well those can do to help We sent reporter Katie Macalister down to Kirsten universe. In Perth in Western Australia where one scientist is teaching the public how to do this. He said you get this feeling. Let's keep trying to get us cheese or maybe Bassong to running a. Hotel. Keep has been putting up hotels. Hoping to entice nighty back into the environment when people think you think of one species which is the European honey but it's actually 20000 species of bays in the world and about 2000 species of bays in a stretch them actually don't make honey Rice them don't live in colonies in hives they solitary and the females are all queens basically all of them can reproduce but they also have to do the foraging themselves as well why I. Important $20000.00 species this is incredible in terms of evolution it's an amazing amount of diversity in body forms and behavior is also native bays are important polar night is of many plants and older honeybees generalists the sort of like jack of all trades master of none and so there's some of the native bays have coal with particular Flora for millions of years and they've developed very specialized relationships making them better pollinators compared with the honeybees So they're going to be do. They use mist in little holes in wood created by. Bot these big bits of wood are getting harder to find nesting raising our supply especially in. In areas in agricultural areas where a large trees that had these nesting cavities are unfortunately cleared. Because big bits of wood are in short supply in urban agricultural areas the hotels are an artificial way to make a space for the NIST. Kids love of babies has spread to the rest of her family to mom and dad leaves and Stephen who have had big hotels in their garden for nearly 4 years. We've had about 3 or 4 years now and I'm still learning much they just wonderful to say what do you say what difference is that made in your garden It's amazing watching them actually putting all the little bits and pieces into the hole and and then sealing them up and then realize it oh my gosh the round uncapping them again and they gadding them and you know it's just you just learning so much and you think well and they so strong. Even some of becoming more prevalent and we've got you start to give them. Your naming days. Are you regulars going to share some of those names that are. Very innovative So how to lose a buggy and a baby to your garden to make a big hotel you need a pipe a cat for it Bamber kinds and some string to have a variety of Diana to say that he can have different species of babies. So is it kind of like an actual hotel where there's you know the really big fancy sort of rooms and there's the more basic ones is that what we're talking about a little Really I guess you could describe it like that it's. Got the big. Big holes in them a little bit at least a little hole it's not just important for the base to have somewhere luxury it's to live turns out it's. Porton for us to now honey days can't do what's called Buzz pollination where particular file is for example to Mari's need to be vibrated at a particular frequency for the pollen to be released honeybees can't do this but at how strongly and I mean and the bomb this they are very good at pollinating So they are extremely good at pollinating crops like to matters and. In Chile things like that is it fair to say maybe. We wouldn't have access to the food that we ate today we wouldn't die if Baze went extinct we would have fewer food options but most importantly the world would be a much more to poor prick place and I would be very very and I think so would some of the children who made. The workshop. And what happens you think you don't have enough time they could last till they could. Think. I'm done you and I and. Tell me what you just made down your hotel looks like kind of kind of. Instead of square holes and what have you said you've written something about it what have you. Come and visit the luxury hotel and big hotels are so important for the next generation of babies because they're the place. Nest cells so. Lays an egg leaves provisions and seals and this and that in the new baby baby emerges when they're ready despite all of these we still don't have a complete picture of the. World of native babies one of the West things is that most of them aren't being monitored the rest of them we don't really have an idea about how their numbers are fluctuating and we really only know after the event when a baby comes extinct. Just because you live in the concrete jungle doesn't mean there's no room for insects you can help by planting green roofs and green walls town planners can use the least likely places traffic islands can become the nature reserves and of course our gardens and window boxes can be made brilliant for insects as Erica McAlister explains so one of those that you can do is look at your food supply that's a really easy and obvious thing to do Ok the best is to do and the best is do seasonal if you can organic I know it's quite expensive in a lot of places but we can start thinking about that so you encourage people not to chop down. Rainforest and plant culture yes not to use pesticides just 3 Boeing different from yeah we want to fruits in the middle of winter we want these and it's like Houghton every thought about the impact of doing that yourself you can plant a load of plants or you garden or flower pots balconies everywhere and plant plants for us and actually globally the pollinators lot of things like the lavender family let me Asia and so I need so you've got amazing smells anyway marjoram and all of that beautiful smells. Love it I don't know if you ever walked past a lavender bush in spring summer and it covered completely covered and it's so noisy. It's all the little insects doing the little thing and nothing so nice smelling nice flowering plants go for it. I think you've my God Now I've got lavender I don't really have a lot of space but the Bush is probably a good thing because I definitely don't do a whole lot of gardening so it's all ramshackle you know are doing not much gardening as lovely as well so that is nice let's not mow the lawn so much Ok we do not need to have grass one thing to me too long and I'm doing this the you're not disturbing it so much so we're a little solitary piece can make their little homes in your garden online late for work April April you mind which is right off because I have a lot of solitary babies in my lawn. Or attacked by beef life which arguably the cutest 5 on the planet and therefore the cutest animal in the panicked and I'm watching them and this is a really complicated battle going on between all these insects and survival than is like a $980.00 s. Night club. Everything is either trying to beat each other up or cop off with each other because I'm not the best God I can see all of this now going on which is brilliant had by being lazy or doing good. As a lazy person this is really a message I can get behind so listening Daria Yes there is a problem but also yes there are things we can do to help as individuals to make things better keep your little patch of the town or city you live in floral and messy but also think about the problems further up the food chain so many species are being lost because they're habitats they cleared for commercial foods like palm oil crab science recently took a trip to Malaysia to look at that in more detail so I'd really recommend having a look through our extensive back catalogue and listening to that. That's it for this edition of crowd signs from the b.b.c. World Service Today's question was for me Daria in Germany the program was presented by a mining Chesterton and produced by Louisa field if you have a question about life on Earth or the universe please email it to crowd science at b.b.c. Don't talk you Ok thanks for listening. You're listening to in-depth news from Colorado Public Radio 90 point one k c f i f m Denver 1490 am k c f c Boulder and h.d. At 90 point one f.m. And online at c.p.r. Dot org This is c.p.r. News. Your donations to c.p.r. Benefit the Colorado community because you make fact based news coverage and story telling us about for people across our state donate Monday or Tuesday there will be some exclusive benefits for you tune in for specials on some of our most popular think that just in time for the holidays give a gift get again Monday and Tuesday Colorado Public Radio. On from our own correspondent after this bulletin Germany has gone cold on coal but it's still a woman some homes as he leads me down the narrow staircase into his cellar I'm hit by a wall of hot air the furnace door swings open it's running well now he shouts over the roar music politics and violence collide in Haiti the yard shouted with a dissonant bass in metal shop drums of Haitian trap music as for actors armed with shotguns and m. 16 stormed in and dramatized holding Islams crew at gunpoint the musicians didn't even flinch the chorus rang out. I don't run and a story of grief and longing from Kuwait I know from personal experience that coming to terms with the violent loss of a relative you've never really known is his own journey you try to answer the many questions at least behind what happened to them what kind of person were they all that and more on from our own correspondent off to this bulletin of b.b.c. World News Hello this is David Alston with the b.b.c. News u.n. Climate talks that were due to end on Friday have continued all night in the Spanish capital as negotiators.