Transcripts For FOXNEWSW America Live 20120723

with permanent injuries, that much is clear already. alicia a acuna is live outside of the courthouse where this took place, as i say, about an hour plus ago. alicia? >> reporter: hi, megyn. james holmes will be back in court in about one week to be advised of the formal charges, first-degree murder, the judge told him, will likely be among those charges today. holmes was kept away from the rest of the people in the courtroom, making his appearance from the jury box, even separate from his own defense team. judge william sylvester advised holmes of his rights and when asked if he understood those rights, he did not answer. instead, his public defender did that. and then the judge addressed bond. >> the judge made a preliminary determination of probable cause to believe you committed the offense of first-degree murder which is a class i felony under colorado law. ordinarily, individuals are entitled to bail. given the nature of the charges, you are currently being held on a no-bond hold. >> reporter: a number of victims and their family members were in court today as well. one girl who was shot in eth face and still has that bullet lodged in her chin told me she wants holmes to feel the pain they have felt. the district attorney talked to the media afterward, she said even with all the evidence they have they are taking nothing for granted. >> there's no such thing as a slam dunk case. it is a case where we will, we're still looking at the enormous amount of evidence, and we would never presume that it would be slam dunk. we will work very hard on this case to prosecute it just like we would any other case. >> reporter: chambers also said that the death penalty is an option in this case. however, she also said, megyn, that that decision likely won't be made for a number of weeks, possibly even months, and that she does need to have a conversation with the victims and their family members before that decision is made. back to you. megyn: alicia, thank you. well, fox news has just learned that holmes' family attorney is planning to hold a press conference this afternoon speaking for the fist time since friday when holmes' mother told reporters just after the shooting she woke up on friday not aware of it like most of america, but her first reaction was that they most likely had the right man. we have yet to hear from her or from this family attorney so we can get behind how she knew that so instantly or whether there was more to the comment than we know now. so we will wait for that comment from the attorney. at the same time, we are learning that just weeks before this 24-year-old set his deadly plot in motion, he apparently tried to join a gun club. he did not follow up on his application, but he was flagged by the club's owner because of his, quote, bizarre and freakish behavior. trace gallagher live in our west coast bureau with the chilling details. >> reporter: megyn, james holmes filled out that application, then he mailed it to the valley range gun club, and the owner says he scanned the application, and it appeared to be just fine. james holmes said that he was not a convicted felon, that he was a lawful gun user and that he did not use guns. so the club's owner or, glenn, called james holmes to invite him to a orientation session so he could vet him in person. but when the answering machine picked up, he said the message was, quoting here, freakish. listen. >> i got this bizarre answering machine of his that was a very base, gutterral, growling, incoherent, rambling whatever it was, message that was bizarre at best, you know? freakish a little. >> reporter: he went on to say the message included some moaning and movie character-like squeals and laughter. somebody, he said, trying to be as weird as possible. that's when he told his staff if this guy shows up, do not let him join. listen again. >> yeah, yeah. this is kind of strange. this is not who, you know, a lot of shooters and gun people are. we're pretty basic, easy to deal with people. we don't get all bizarre and strange. so, yeah, it put up a flag to me that who is, what's -- what was he trying to accomplish with this? >> reporter: holmes never did show up, and when his wife first told him about the shooting, he realized that the name kind of rang a bell. that's when he went back in his records, and he pulled up the application and found that it was, in fact, that james holmes. megyn? megyn: trace, thank you. well, the tragedy in aurora felt far and wide across america. in a moving tribute to the victims, a carpenter from illinois constructed 12 crosses, one for each person who lost their lives, and planted them across the street from the century 16 movie theater. and if those crosses look familiar, that is likely because he did the same thing back in 1999 following the columbine high school tragedy. aurora is just 20 miles from columbine. the carpenter building those crosses himself before taking the 16-hour drive from his home the put them in place. well, the tragedy also garnering reaction from mexico. philippe calderon taking to his twitter page and blaming the attacks in aurora on u.s. gun laws which he says are, quote: mistaken and doing damage to us all. calderon himself has suggested to crack down on violent drug clashes --uld say, to crack down on violent drug cartels in his own country which have reportedly killed more than 55,000 people since 2007. of course, since friday the debate over the gun control laws in this country has been making major headlines, and coming up we will investigate, fair and balanced, the states that have strict gun control laws versus the states that have more permissive gun control laws. do the tougher laws make a difference on the crime rate, the murder rate in particular? we'll go in depth on that in just a bit right here. and after taking a break from the campaign trail to pay respect to the victims in the aurora tragedy, president obama will resume his campaign today speaking with veterans in reno, nevada, before holding several fundraisers. this comes as new analysis by the associated press finds that the obama re-election campaign spent more than it collected in the month of june. scott benson is a political editor for townhall.com. guy, welcome back. >> hello, megyn. megyn: okay. so the romney campaign, plus the romney victory fund in the month of june took in $106 million. the obama campaign plus the obama victory fund took in 71 million in the month of june, so this is at least the second month in a row where romney has outraised the president if you include the party efforts, and now we're being told that the president actually spent more than he took in. so do they have a cash problem over at team obama headquarters? >> they don't really have a cash problem per se because they have a lot of money built up. and one of the important things to keep in mind here is the way the election law is written, megyn, is there's a pool of cash that candidates can use during the primary, and then there's another pool of cash that can be used during the general election. and as weird as it might seem to your average american out there watching this election, everyone sort of assumes, oh, of course we're in the general election season. it's obama against romney. well, not technically, not legally just yet. because it won't be the general election according to fec law when it comes to this spending until after each candidate -- megyn: so what does this mean? >> so that means that at the moment mitt romney can only spend primary money, and the same applies to barack obama. but because obama ran uncontested, as the sitting president, he's built up a much larger war chest of primary era, if you will, money than mitt romney. so at the end of last month and the beginning of july, barack obama and the president's campaign still has about $72 million in primary dollars remaining whereas mitt romney's only around 20 million. so there's a large advantage there for the president. megyn: well, then explain this, guy, because the reports are that the obama campaign has been getting increasingly pressing, let's put it that way, with top democratic donors who are big and quick to open their pocketbooks last time around but this time around have been more reluctant. and can, i mean, some top democrats here in new york who were at the famous danielle dinner who have told me personally that their phones are ringing off the hook and that they sensed a sense of desperation, that was the word used by them. >> right. megyn: from the campaign, trying to get them to open up the pocketbooks, and the phrase was early money is better than late money. they want the money, and they want it now. >> right. megyn: they say it does much more good now versus later. why? >> well, it's because what they're raising now is for the general election, and they realize -- and here's the key when we're looking at this, megyn. the window of advantage is really closing rapidly for obama. he has these advantages at the moment. he's outspending governor romney three to one in swing states on the air. they realize that huge number that you opened this segment with, $106 million raised in june for romney and the rnc victory fund, that is going to get unleashed as soon as the convention is over in late august for the republicans at which point the republicans will at least be on par with the democrats, if not surpassing them in money. so at the moment because of the law and the calendar, the obama people have an advantage in spending. the reason they're starting to get desperate in my view, megyn, is if you look at that three to one spending advantage in swing states mostly on tv ads and one study showed it was about three-fourths of those ads were negative ads on mitt romney, they are so desperate to try to define mitt romney in voters' minds right now because they realize the advantage they have is going to end by the end of next month, and the problem that we're seeing if you're at least looking at this from the obama campaign's perspective, when you look at the polls that came out last week particularly from "the new york times" and cbs news, the president's favorability -- which is typically and traditionally been his strong suit -- is now underwater, especially among independents. and i think the question we need to start asking really is, are these negative attacks if they're spending so promiscuously on now, actually hurting the president more than their intended target? megyn: understood. we heard their game plan was to kill romney, politically, of course. and apparently politically speaking it's better to do that early, meaning now, than after the conventions for the reasons you state. guy, thank you. interesting. >> thanks, megyn. megyn: well, coming up, he stands accused in one of america's most horrific shooting massacres. now for the first time today we got to see james holmes. what can we make of his demeanor in court today? and what signs did his friends and family miss, if any? coming up, dr. keith ablow is here for a fascinating look at why no one may have suspected that holmes could commit this crime. plus, union workers at several nursing homes accused of putting the lives of patients at risk before going on strike. trace gallagher has this unbelievable story. and a sobering measuring stick for america's economy. poverty levels hitting levels not seen since the 1960s. and it is expected to get worse. lou dobbs on what this means for america's economic well being and for the political race. all this despite assurances from president obama that things are getting better. >> we've been working 24/7, 365 days a year for the last three-and-a-half years to try to right the ship and recover, and we've seen progress. we've seen progress. a party? 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[ female announcer ] new ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. twenty-one vitamins and minerals. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach. refreshing nutrition in charge! home protector plus, from liberty mutual insurance, where the costs to both repair your home and replace your possessions are covered. and we don't just cut a check for the depreciated value -- we can actually replace your stuff with an exact or near match. plus, if your home is unfit to live in after an incident, we pay for you to stay somewhere else while it's being repaired. home protectorlus, from liberty mutl insurance. because you never know what lies around the corner. to get a free quote, call... visit a local office, or go to libertymutual.com today. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? megyn: well, some potentially sobering news for america's economic well being. the census bureau saying that poverty levels are on track to reach heights not seen in nearly half a century. in 1965 17.3% of americans lived below the poverty line. now the latest numbers from 2010 show about 15% of americans at that level, and officials believe the number could rise higher. for the past few months, we have been hearing from the president of a more rosy picture. >> the good news is that we are moving in the right direction. we righted the ship, we did not tip into a great depression. the truth of the matter is that, as i said, we've created 4.3 million job over the last two -- 27 months. over 800,000 just this year alone. the private sector's doing fine. we've been working 24/7, 365 days a year for the last three-and-a-half years to try to right the ship and recover, and we've seen progress. we've seen progress. megyn: joining me now, lou dobbs, syndicated radio show and host of "lou dobbs tonight" on the fox business network. the president not specifically singling out the poor in those remarks, but talking about how they'd righted the ship and things are getting better, and now a group that is, i think it's fair to say, typically inclined to vote democratic, you know, under the belief that the republicans like the rich and the democrats like the poor, help the poor, i should say, this group appears to be struggling, lou, more than we've seen in a few decades. is it true? is the study true? >> it's absolutely true. it's also, you know, it's intuitively validated, i think, across the board. but what does it mean, what did it mean in 1965 shortly after president johnson declared war on poverty in this country? here's what it means in terms of its effect. we have spent at the state level and the federal government $15 trillion. that's the product of an entire year's economic production in goods and services. we've spent $15 trillion over that period of time, and the poverty level as you've just seen there has stayed, basically, static throughout that time so what in the world are we doing? then we throw -- megyn: a lot of that money, that 15 trillion, is spent on entitlements and so on. it's money that we don't have, but it's money that we have promised out. >> that we have promised out -- megyn: medicaid, medicare, social security. our viewers don't like them to be called entitlements, but that's what we're talking about. >> well, they are entitlements, and the entire program of social welfare at the federal level which has risen 41% under president obama since he took office. the result has been greater poverty, and he talks about righting the ship. he talks about how much time he's spending on the economy. the accountability institute did a study in which they found only 4% of his time has been spent in meetings with his cabinet and others to be briefed on economic issues, job creation, growth of the economy. you know, it's, it's a peculiar construction. megyn: but what does it mean, it's like when you've got, you know, a friend or family member who's not doing well financially, and you try to help that person. >> right. megyn: and sometimes, hopefully, you can help that person and be a bridge to a new job or bridge to a better situation, but then there are other people who it doesn't matter how much money you give them, it's just going to still, you know, it's not going to help them, it's just going to fund living for that brief period. and is that what this number's telling us, that the more we create entitlements and give money and create these programs, the less we encourage people to help themselves, to get themselves out of poverty? >> that is a persuasive argument. it's an unresolved argument. one thing that we do know is that when you provide, as we just showed there, support, economic support up to the level of the poverty line in terms of households, talk about $45,000, there's very little economic incentive for many in the middle class to hurry back to work. even if they could find those job withs. what's interesting about this and what the president did not say is those jobs don't exist. he talked about 4.3 million. we have 23 million people, megyn, who do not have jobs, who are working in jobs that are providing fewer hours and less money than they sought. megyn: are they now falling falo this poverty level? >> many of them are. but this definition, again, megyn: when you compare states with very tough gun laws with those that have lax laws, does that argument hold up? we'll have a fair and balanced debate. plus, demonstrates in california stormed a local police department. what sparked the outcry and why it may be far from over. [ female announcer ] with the e-trade 360 investing dashboard. free streaming quotes, all your investments, positions, and even your trade ticket are all on one customizable page. see the 360 investing dashboard at e-trade. did you know honey nut cheerios is america's favorite cereal? oh, you're good! hey, did you know that honey nut cheerios is... oh you too! ooh, hey america's favorite cereais... honey nut cheerios ok then off to iceland! megyn: anaheim, california, 34eus firing non-lethal bean bag bullets trying to calm demonstrators outside of the police station after a man was killed during an officer-involved shooting. trace gallagher has more live from our west coast newsroom. >> reporter: there's been a lot of gang activity in anaheim. there were two anaheim police officers who were approaching three men stand anything an alley. the cops won't say exactly why, but the men took off running. the cops then gave chase. but one of the officers pulled out his gun, fired and killed one of the men. it's also unclear exactly why the officer fired because the man was unarmed. while the police were investigating the shooting a little later on, a group of people surrounded them and began throwing rocks and bottles at police. police, as you said, began using bean bags and pepper spray balls and even a dog as you see there got loose and bit a number of people. the dog was quickly brought back in and placed back in the car, but it didn't end there because later in the evening another crowd protesting the shooting blocked a major intersection, began lighting trash cans on fire. this was all saturday night. there was what you see here on sunday, another rally and protest, another protest late last night where trash cans were burned, and police expect there could be more tonight. this is all because this is one of a number of police-involved shootings in anaheim that have been fatal. the mayor says people are on edge, and now he wants answers. listen. >> i will ask for a full investigation of this incident by an independent, credible, outside entity. transparency is essential. the investigation will seek the truth. and whatever the truth is, we will own it. >> reporter: both of the anaheim officers who were involved in that shooting have now been placed on paid leave which, of course, megyn, is standard operating procedure. >> reporter: trace, thank you. well, coming up as the colorado shooting suspect went into court this morning, we learned more about him from various reports. reports of a break-up between he and his girlfriend, reports of stockpiling bullets and other weapons prior to this event, and reports of a relatively normal-seeming guy up to just a few years ago. so what happened? dr. keith ablow joins us in just a bit with some answers. plus, union workers at several nursing homes accused of putting the lives of patients at risk ahead of a strike. we're talking about allegedly switching and tampering with medical records, giving patients the wrong meds. you will not believe the details. we'll have a live report coming up. when you have diabetes... your doctor will say get smart about your weight. i tried weight loss plans... but their shakes aren't always made for people with diabetes. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. and they have six grams of sugars. with fifteen grams of protein to help manage hunger... look who's getting smart about her weight. 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joining me now, sally kohn, fox news contributor, and brad blakeman. i mean, i think our viewers all take this very seriously, and, you know, let's just start with everyone struggles for answers in the wake of something like this because you want to make yourself feel like you can prevent it from happening again. so that's, i think, the motivation for people saying maybe it's the gun laws, maybe if we tighten those. but we can't just start passing laws that don't necessarily solve the problem and restrict people's freedoms as written into the constitution. one of the stats -- what do the stats show, brad? are stricter gun laws, when they're passed, do they reduce gun violence? do they reduce murder rates? >> they don't. we've seen it in washington d.c. they have the strictest gun laws on the books with regard to handguns and other guns, and the supreme court overturned that. we've seen it in california who had the strictest gun laws versus maine that had the weakest. maine had a better record of gun violence than california did. so the laws in and of itself are not going to bring down gun violence, unfortunately, and we've senior that. i'm the victim of gun violence. i was the victim of a botched kidnapping when i was 18, and we had a shootout at our house. but my feelings towards gun control hasn't changed since then. i believe that people have an ultimate constitutional right under the second amendment to bear arms. and the question is, are you going to let the rights of a superminority trump the rights of the majority? megyn: sally, in this case, in this case jennifer reuben has an interesting post on that. he went in there with a remington shotgun, an assault rifle and a glock .40 caliber handgun. he first used the shotgun, then he used the assault rifle which allegedly jammed. how many people died before he got to the semiautomatic weapon which is the one the guns advocates are focused on? >> of course any gun can do damage, but, look, first of all, let me just say as i know we all are, it's tragic that we're here having this conversation again in america, and we all want to figure out what we can do to prevent it. and there is no single answer to any of this. but here's what we do know. we know that, for instance, in massachusetts which has the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, it has the second lowest crime rate of any state, first of all, we know that -- megyn: how do you explain california that brad just mentioned? >> look at the united states as a whole. if you compare us to the other 22 wealthiest nations in the world, you take their gun deaths, add them together, multiply them by 20, and then you get to america's gun death rate. the only difference between our country and those other countries is our lax gun laws. and i'm not -- megyn: but is that true? is that true? the culture has evolve inside our society, the collapse of the mental health system in many ways, and this is what the other point is, it's not the only difference. >> i don't believe we're a violent nation, do you? megyn: no, but don't you believe whether guns are also to blame, the gun laws i should say, but the mental health system has to be part of this discussion, brad. >> there's no question about it. and the fact is nobody sounded the alarm sufficient enough on this individual that would even give cause to believe that he shouldn't be receiving the kinds of weapons that he was legally entitled to. but here's the problem. doj did a study on assault bans, and they found assault ban weapons infinitesimal, they couldn't even measure -- >> i'm sorry, but i have to say, look, there are always going to be sick people, you're right. but we don't have to make it so easy for them -- >> it isn't so easy. >> 80% of nra members have said they believe in common sense gun laws, like background checks. like the fact that people on the terrorist watch list shouldn't be able to get access to guns. colorado, under nra pressure, just voted to repeal its background checks. we don't have to make it so easy in this country for people. we can respect the rights of people to hunt -- megyn: but this guy would have passed a background check. he had no history they would know of. >> look, if that gun hadn't jammed, 50-60 rounds per minute, it shouldn't be that easy in this country to kill people. megyn: but the response from the other side is he was determined to kill. >> don't make it so easy. megyn: he would have brought in more handguns, more weaponry, and by stiffening the laws do we just deprive legitimate gun owners of their rights? let me ask you, brad, this guy bought 6,000 -- let me put up the list of the things he bought over the past year. okay, this is over the past four months. 6,000 rounds of ammunition, a kevlar helmet, a gas mask, a bullet-resistant vest, groin and neck protecter. if there had been somebody who checks people who are amassing firearms or weaponry at an alarming rate, you know, somebody who looks into it, somebody who pulls him aside for a mental health evaluation, some more regulatory layer -- >> again, hindsight is 20/20. we have yet to be seen whether or not the time period is that short which would have triggered an inquiry. do we want our country violating the rights of privacy on these type of inquiries for legal products that are sold? these are really touchy items, and i'm not saying out of a tragedy like this we don't look and examine the laws that we have to see if there are reasonable restrictions that have to be done, but a knee jerk reaction to the type of rhetoric we're hearing from some who say it's because of the -- we don't have an assault ban, or our guns are too easy to get, that's not the problem because this guy never showed the signs of somebody who shouldn't be entitled to weapons that everybody else has and is legally using them. >> look. where we seem to agree is you don't make policy based on one incident, but we look at the fact that virginia tech, arizona, all of these shootings did have mental health elements, and if there had been a background check system in the place that gun owners overwhelmingly support and the nra is not a opposing -- megyn: would that have solved this? >> we have to look in general at how do we balance the rights of owners to hunt and protect their families with the sensible, common sense gun laws that help our kids come home safe from school every day? if we shouldn't make it so easy in this country to get massive semiautomatic weapons. >> again, we have to take the facts based on the incidents. and the facts suggest overwhelmingly that there's such a small, infinitesimal amount of people who perpetrate gun violence -- >> that's true, brad, but let's not make it so easy. >> why punish the many for the acts of a few? megyn: i've go t to go. >> i don't think anybody needs a semiautomatic weapon to hunt, and they should at least have to show an id to get one. megyn: wouldn't it have been nice if somebody in that theater had been armed? >> with a room full of tear gas? it would have been worse. megyn: there were a lot of military -- >> but they're trained. megyn: they were trained, but they were unarmed. i've got to go. one thing that we all agree on is the need for at least, we're not going to agree on the guns, but on the mental health system. >> no question. megyn: and the holes that exist in that system. coming up next, we will speak with dr. keith ablow on that important part of the story. thank you both so much. coming up as well, president obama responding to criticism today over his you didn't build that comments. take a listen. >> and anybody who actually watched the tape knows that what i was -- that's what i was referring to, and that's a point i've made millions of times. by the way, that's a point mr. romney has made as well. so this is just a bogus issue. megyn: well, is that true? coming up, we'll speak with a small business other than and ask him what he has to say about the president's comments. why's he all fired up? plus, all day you have seen the coverage of the aurora suspect, james holmes, in court. he's been described as sweet and easy going. what, what could possibly have happened? keith ablow is next. 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[ kyle ] it's like we're connected. no we're not. yeah we are. no...we're not. ♪ ask an allstate agent about the value plan. are you in good hands? megyn: well, this morning we got our first glimpse of the man allegedly behind one of the biggest shooting massacres in american history. 24-year-old james holmes appeared in court today, not speaking a word to the judge or to his defense attorneys, at least on camera. this is the daily news uncovering new details about his actions in prison, allegedly spitting at guards, acting erratically. so how did this once-brilliant graduate student allegedly turn into a cold-blooded killer? dr. keith ablow is a psychiatrist and a member of our fox news medical a-team. i was just speaking with our last panel about how this is what we do do in the wake of these tragedies because we, i think, struggle as mere mortals to understand these acts, and it reminds us of our own mortality, of the mortality of those we love, and we feel desperate to put answers on these circumstances so that we can say we'll understand it better, we'll work to prevent it, and it won't happen to any of us in the future. and yet is that a futile effort? >> it's not a futile effort because there are holes in the mental health care system and in the student health care system on college campuses and in graduate schools big enough to drive, no pun intended, a madman through. we can tighten up to a great extent the sensitivities that we need in order to identify people at risk for violence and in order to prevent it by rendering them needed services. megyn: the reports on this guy are that he was a ph.d. student, he was described as very smart but in the process of dropping out of graduate school. he is said to have few friends, barely any social life, and they say he allegedly lost touch with reality after becoming obsessed with video games including role-playing games, something called world of warcraft where you compete against people on the internet. the point is, it seems like he was getting more and more withdrawn to the point where, doc, and i don't know what this means, but when his mother was contacted about the incident on friday, she reportedly said to the reporters, you have the right person. i need to call the police and fly out to colorado. >> well, i'm sure, you know, when we know more about his mother if she comes forward and says what she's been dealing with with her son, when we talk to his father, neighbors, when we listen to student services or academic deans about his performance and his teachers and his fellow students, it won't be any mystery anymore that here was a brilliant, would-be healer trying to research mental illness and look at the dna associated with mental illness who devolved into madness. now, what could the variable be? schizophrenia can strike people of this age. drug abuse and addiction can intervene. bipolar disorder can do this. other delusional disorders can. i'm not saying that those were present here, but they certainly could be, and they can do this. and i've seen them do this. i've worked with patients who labor with delusions and, thankfully, have gotten them the help they need. but they got to my office. i get other calls from schools that just don't make sense. people asking me, you know, well, you know, this person, he's built a cemetery, and the tombstones have other students' nameses on them. now, do you think we should refer him to someone? i'm like, well, yeah, that's a five-penny question. absolutely. why is that confusing to a mental health center on campus? megyn: i want to get into his age because so often these guys who do this are about this same age, and we see something up here to be onset in their early 20s. but before i get to that, let's talk about what we saw in court this morning with his demeanor, doc. he was struggling to keep his eyes open, or so he would have us believe. he seemed dazed and maybe confused, looking in a far-off direction, or he would have us believe. i don't know whether this was real or an act, but what are we to make of what we saw in court this morning? >> well, first of all, i think people internally will say, boy, that's the guy who caused all this carnage. it seems like a non non sequitu. he seems not very powerful. he may, in fact, be one of the weakest people you've ever met in your life and subject to all kinds of psychiatric systems that have laid him low. he may have been medicated while in jail, that's possible. he may, in fact, be coarsing in and out of different states of consciousness, literally attending to voices that he heres and, therefore, at one time seeming not to be able to the attend to things. they're going to have to answer the question, is he even capable to assist his attorney in his own defense? is he capable of standing trial to start with? but, listen, they should get an mri of this guy. could it be a brain tumor? could he have an infection that invaded his central nervous system? everything needs to be looked at here because as you've already said, megyn, and you're exactly right, the why. we don't have the why. and we need it, and we might be able to get it, and the answer might be, sadly, psychiatric illness. megyn: just a few years ago he was giving a presentation at this science event and talking about how he wanted one day to own a slurpee machine and wanted to make scientific discoveries. abc news got exclusive rights to the video. they've given us permission to run some of it. do we have it, control? take a look. but he seemed so normal in this clip, and it's available on abc news.com, folks. but he seems so normal, he seems like a sweet kid, you know? he's smiling, and he sounds like any, anybody else. how in the course of just a few years did he go from this to this red-headed guy we saw in court, and why does it keep happening with these 24-year-olds? i want to tell our viewers, you know, you had jared loughner, 22. virginia tech shooter, 23. this guy, 24. >> those ages are prime time for severe mental illnesses to take hold. they're probably also prime time when stressors in life in terms of job and career exacerbate underlying questions about self-esteem and trigger mental illness. you're more exposed to drugs one could argue than you might be as an adolescent or older adult. so it's in that, yeah, it's a terrible word, but sweet spot, if you will, for mental illness taking hold. that may be one reason. that could also indicate, well, maybe do we want to screen people? instead of talking about not having as many guns in society -- which has nothing to do with this -- maybe we should be screening college students for psychopathology. after all, you have to turn up with immunization records to go to grade school, maybe it's okay to screen in freshmen entering college. megyn: i literally have 40 seconds to the hard break. if you can, quickly, why does it feel like there are so many of these these days? >> i mean, it feels like there are more because there are more. it's not just media coverage. people are losing touch with their real sensibilities, their capacity to deal with things in a real and genuine way because their emotions aren't available to them. too much technology, too many drugs, and we're losing sight of deploying psychiatric resources. my profession is full of massive holes. megyn: dr. ablow, thank you very much, sir. >> all right, megyn. megyn: a union strike againstn, management like you've never seen before.di get ahead of it! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day helps defend against digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. hit me! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today. megyn: unbelievable story brewing in connecticut now as workers at two nursing homes are accused of sabotaging their facilities ahead of a union strike earlier in this month. the workers accused of things like switching name tags on alzheimer's patients and tampering with medical records. trace gallagher has the story live from our west coast newsroom. trace? >> reporter: health bridge runs nine nursing homes in connecticut, and the workers are on strike because the company cut their benefits, their pension benefits as well as asked them to contribute more to their health accounts. well, at two of those health clinics before they walked out, the company says the workers actually went in and sabotaged the place including, as you said, switching patients' name tags, removing ids on the doors which could have been lethal because that means that some patients could have gotten the wrong medications, the wrong dosage, even foods that they're not supposed to eat. now, there's no surveillance cameras inside these nursing homes to the back up the allegations, and the workers themselves called the allegations ridiculous. listen. >> we love this place. we live here. this is all we talk about. we love this facility. who know us know that we love our resident families more, we wouldn't even think of doing that. >> reporter: the union, of course, also denies the workers did that. um, they accused the managers of actually going in and sabotaging the place and blaming it on the workers. health bridge filed a complaint with the connecticut attorney general, the ag said it didn't have authority and pointed them toward the local police as well as the state attorney, but the attorney general, this man, george jepsen, also went to the picket line and shook hands with the striking workers, and in 2001 there was another health care strike at nursing homes, and the state investigation in that case did find that the workers sabotaged some of those homes. megyn? megyn: wow. unbelievable. trace, thank you. well, president obama responding to the uproar over his you didn't build that comments, and he is not backing down. >> and anybody who actually watched the tape knows that what i was -- that's what i was referring to, and that's a point i've made millions of times. by the way, that's a point mr. romney has made as well. so this is just a bogus issue. megyn: the president calls the controversy "bogus." coming up, reaction from a small business other than who is now starring in a new ad by governor romney. plus, these two girls vanished near a lake ten days ago. now police and the fbi believe the two cousins still could be alive. trace has the developing story coming up. and syria is breaking its silence on its stockpile of chemical weapons and making a threat on when it would use them. that's three minutes away. okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle -- 8% every 10 years. wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? it's the amino acid metabolite, hmb to help rebuild muscle and strength naturally lost over time. 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>> reporter: megyn, the depth of chaos in syria has the united states and syria worried about the chemical weapons. which is why we've seen the assad regime to make a statement yesterday. israel's prime minister, benjamin netanyahu said israel would have to act if the chemical weapons fall into the hands of any islamic extremists we had a astonishing statement from the government today. these are the words of the government spokesman a while ago. >> stocks indeed or any unconventional weapon that the syrian republic possess would never, never be used against civilians or the syrian people during this crisis. at any circumstances no matter h t crisis would evolve. >> reporter: syria has the middle east's biggest arsenal of chemical weapons. we know it has nerve gas. we know mustard gas, sarin gas and variety of other toxic weapons. we're not sure about the biological side they have. united states and israel are monitoring every day if not every day but hour by hour where the stockpiles have been moved that is happening in the past week. in terms of violence in the country, megyn, the country is trying to reclaim the back the capital. retaking rebel positions from last week. in the past few hours hundreds of rebel fighters have tried storming the city. no indication did, they have been. we believe they have large control of the northwest part of the city. of course in quetta falls to the rebels because that is the economic hub. that is where the majority of wealthy supporters of bashar assad are based. if they lose out the support for the assad regime will crumble even further. back to you. >> there was talk last week reportedly of between the united states and israel one of us going into syria to secure control of those chemical weapons if in fact the regime collapses there were report that is the united states did not want israel to do it because we thought they would use that, the syrians would, as an excuse for further unrest in that region. so syria's administration -- admission they have chemical weapons wouldn't use them against its own people or a foreign power that steps into this conflict are we to believe that in the wake of what we heard last week? is that real? are we to credits report this regime literally executing babies? literally executing babies and children as their parents watch? can we trust their word? coming up, ambassador john bolton and general jack keane give us insights. they will be here live. meantime the deadliest day in almost two years in iraq. more than 100 people killed in coordinated attacks across 15 cities. no claim of responsibility yet but the leader of al qaeda in iraq declared a new offensive just last week. a series of bombings and shootings had all the haul marks of that terror group. they took place within hours of one another, targeting mostly security forces and government forces. most of the attacks happened in the capital and the northern areas which were former al qaeda in iraq strongholds. governor romney heads overseas this week on a trip that will take him to england, poland and israel. he leaves tomorrow in what he calls a learn and listen trip. he is set to meet with british prime minister david cameron before hosting a fund-raiser in london. governor romney will give a speech on his middle east policy after meeting this week with israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu. >> the white house announcing a trip to israel for pat obama but it can not say for sure when he will go. president obama is criticized by many since he yet to visit israel since elected to the presidency nearly four years ago. on a conference call today a campaign aide told reporters that president obama will visit israel during his second term if he reelected. punishment for penn state. unprecedented sanctions leveled on the school's football program this morning by the ncaa. this in the wake of a scathing report on the child sex abuse scandal involving convicted former assistant coach, jerry sandusky, which we now know according to the freeh report, that is the former fbi director who investigated this all matter was enabled. he was enabled and covered up for by top university officials. among the list of penalties, they wiped out years of victories for former legendary head coach jo paterno as well as a mountain of fines. >> the ncaa is imposing a fine of $60 million on the university with the fines to be used to establish an endowment to support programs around the nation that served victims of child sexual abuse. megyn: rick leventhal life in our new york newsroom with more. rick? >> reporter: megyn the ncaa says the penalties are warranted by the conspiracy of silence and rec lass disregard of children. that $60 million fine equals the gross revenue. the 4-year postseason ban means no bowl games through 2016. a loss of 10 initial scholl larships each year and five years of probation and vacating every win from 1998 through 2011. that means jo paterno is no longer the winningest coach. he lost 111 games, dropping from 409 victories to 298. the university says it will not appeal these sanctions. >> for the next several years penn state can focus on the work of rebuilding its athletic culture, not worrying about whether or not it is going to a bowl game. with the sanctions imposed today and with the new leadership the university we hope, we intend to insure that that will be the case. >> reporter: the pen nals come less than two weeks as of the freeh report accused joe paterno and officials concealing allegations against that man, retired assistant coach jerry sandusky who was convicted last month of abusing 10 boys, some on campus. the action comes a day after 900 pound bronze statue of jo-pa was removed outside beaver stadium. it was covered with a tarp and hauled off by a forklift. the school's president says this is part of moving forward. but the paterno family released a same saying that joe paterno has been unfairly tarnished no chance of rebuttal, writing the sanctions announced by the ncaa today defame the legacy of and contributions of a great educator and coach without any input from our family or those who knew best. penn state will not receive share of conference bowl revenue, about 13 cal million a year. it will go to children's charities instead. megyn: rick leventhal, thank you. the suspect make in the come shootings will make his first court appearance. there is us suspicion he might use the insanity defense. did you see his behavior in court today? we'll analyze it with the legal panel and talk about it in today's "kelly's court". plus these two girls vanished near a lake 10 days ago. the police and the fbi say they believe the two cousins may still alive. we have that developing story. president obama has faced a barrage of criticism over a single campaign trail quote. that wasn't true. it was not a single campaign trail quote. the most incendiary part was a single line where he said, for those people who own a small business, quote, you didn't build that. in his words, hear why he says this is a quote, bogus controversy. we'll talk to a man featured in a new romney campaign about this line item, about what he thinks. >> somebody helped to create this unbelievable american system that we had that allowed you to thrive. somebody invested and in roads and bridges. if you have a business, you didn't build that. somebody else made that happen. the internet didn't get invented on its own. government research created the internet so that all the companies could make money off the internet. 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[ all ] i'm with scottrade. do you have any idea where you're going ? wherever the wind takes me. this is so off course. nature can surprise you sometimes... next time, you drive. next time, signal your turn. ...that's why we got a subaru. love wherever the road takes you. megyn: new polls on the americans views on the economy. one from "the hill" find most voters blame the so pace of recovery on bad policy in washington. 34% point the finger directly at the president when asked who is to blame. this in the wake of his controversial comments about business owners and whether they built their companies themselves. the president defended those comments over the past couple days. listen here. >> part of what he said, if you've got a business, you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen. on tuesday in pennsylvania governor romney responded and said, quote, say something like that is not only sfool ishness and insulting to every entrepreneur and every innovator. your response, sir. >> you left out the sentence i made before. what i said was, together we build roads and we built bridges. so if you have a business you didn't build that, meaning roads and bridges not your business. anybody who actually watched the tape knows that what, that's what i was referring to. that is the point i made millions of times. by the way that a point mr. romney has made as well. this is just a bogus issue. megyn: governor romney launched a new campaign ad slamming the president for those comments. joining us is the small business owner who appears in the romney ad. jack gilchrist is the president of gilchrist metal fabrication. welcome to the program. you appeared in the ad and none too happy with it the comment that you didn't build that. the president says this was taken out of context. this is a bogus controversy. what say you, sir? >> hi, megyn. i don't know if it was taken out of context i think it would be described as a poorly phrased statement. megyn: did you feel better when you heard the president's explanation? >> no. and i think his explanation might be slightly exaggerated with his words but, megyn, even if we take that one sentence out of the equation i really don't think it changes anything. megyn: go ahead. sorry. go ahead. >> i think he is refering to the community at large and a community is made up of individuals and a community is as strong as the individuals and their contributions to the community. and when those individuals start contributing less and less the community implodes. megyn: the president was trying to say look, when i said you didn't build that, i meant the roads and bridges, i didn't mean your business. he was encouraging folks to look at the context of the remarks. we pulled a longer clip what the president actually said. i would like to get your reaction. stand by. >> yeah. >> look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. you didn't get there on your own. i'm always struck by people who think, because it was just because i was so smart. there are a lot of smart people out there. it must be because i worked harder than everybody else. let me tell you something, there are a whole bunch of hard-working people out there. if you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. there was a great teacher somewhere in your life. somebody helped to create this unbelievable american system that we had that allowed you to thrive. somebody invested in roads and bridges. if you got a business, you didn't build that. somebody else made that happen. megyn: your thoughts, jack? in particular on the first part about how, successful business people often think it is because they're so smart or they just worked harder than anybody else. >> it is insulting. i don't feel any differently. i think he is scoffing people to go out there and take risk and put life on the line and home and everything else. and families potential well-being. megyn: so you work in the metal fabrication and your dad had an amazing story too, coming over, working hard. do you see, i mean, was there a difference? why did you make it? why did your small business survive and the others didn't? >> well, i mean, not all small businesses don't survive and not all small businesses make it. it takes some good fort fun, there is no doubt about it. it takes some commitment. you have to adjust. just because you set your sights on something doesn't mean it will work out that way. you have got to continually reassess your situation and make corrections. megyn: in the ad -- >> navigate. megyn: in the ad you appear for governor romney you take issue with the president's line you didn't build that. you say now it reflects an attitude not just one line. let's watch a clip of it. >> if you have got a business, you didn't build that. somebody else made that happen. >> my father's hands didn't build this company. my hands didn't build this company? through hard work and a little bit of luck we built this business. why are you demonizing us for it? megyn: now the president has pointed out repeatedly he has given more than 18 tax breaks to small businesses and he says, far from demonizing small business, he has helped, helped small business owners like yourself. >> i feel like every time you turn around he is beating us up about something else. why does he want governor romney's more tax returns? to pick on somebody, to beat on somebody, that is successful and i'm sure operated within all the rules and laws that were provided or given to us to function within. i don't like that tone of it. megyn: jack gilchrist, thank you very much for being here. >> you're welcome, megyn. megyn: all the best, sir. coming up we're following new developments in our top story this hour. syria, admitting now for the first time that it does indeed have a stockpile of chemical weapons. coming up, ambassador john bolton and general jack keane on what the next steps should be for the united states. keep in mind they're saying they won't use them against their own people but if another country comes in to secure the weapons or do anything else in syria then we're in trouble. can't think of two better guys to talk about this with than these two. after 10 days after they first went missing the fbi now says these two missing cousins in iowa may have actually been abducted and may be alive right now. why the change in messaging? that's next. >> there is $50,000 reward leading to the successful recovery and prosecution of the person or persons responsible for the disappearance of these girls. anyone with information regarding the girls disappearance can provide information confidentially to the valley crimestoppers. >> you've probably heard a lot about reverse mortgages lately and frankly, it may all seem just a little confusing. and if you're anything like me, you want to have all the facts before you make any big decision. that's why i want to send you this free dvd about reverse mortgages. it'll walk you through the process, from qualification to counseling to closing and also, answer some important questions. what are the costs and how do they compare to a traditional mortgage? how is the government involved? and what is your responsibility after you get your reverse mortgage? the answers are all in this free dvd. a reverse mortgage could be a smart, safe and secure option that could help you pay off your original mortgage, manage your health care costs or just cover your day-to-day expenses. so call this toll-free number and let me send you your free video right now. [♪...] megyn: new details on a story that made national headlines months ago. you probably remember this horrible video of 68-year-old karen klein being brutally bullied by a group of kids in rochester, new york. the video and stories about led to outpouring support for her. looks like her hard times are paying off. an international fund raiser in her honor raising a total of $703,000. new reports say karen plans to donate some of that money to worthy causes. she plans to retire in the fall. >> brand new developments in the search for two missing cousins in iowa. fbi investigators do now believe that 10-year-old lyric cook-morrissey and 8-year-old elizabeth collins are alive. they were last seen more than a week ago riding their buys sells. trace gallagher has an update from the breaking news desk. trace? >> reporter: it is fascinating. the girls have been missing for 10 days and the fbi is not concerned about the passage of time. that is interesting because we've followed these types of cases many times and we know history shows the first 48 hours when it comes to missing kids is always critical when it comes to finding them but the fbi says they have information that leads them to believe that the girls are alive. they won't tell us what that information is. but they say they still desperately need the public's help because the public can give them that little morsel that puts them over the edge. listen. >> let me give you an example of this there was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. he didn't see either one of the girls. he thought what reason is there for me to contact authorities but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. small details like this are really important to the investigation. >> reporter: now the fbi is done searching meyers lake where the girls bikes were found near and the fbi picked up their accept. they have multiple persons of interest in this case. they're not naming them. including lyric's father, daniel ricci who has a long criminal record with recent charges of assaulting his wife and other drug offenses. he could go on trial in the fall that could lead to decades in prison. the mother has served prison time for making and selling methaphetamine. she too has a long history of drug and alcohol abuse. as you might imagine, megyn the authority resistive ifing a very hard look to this family before ruling them out. they are no longer cooperating police say. megyn: trace, thank you. this afternoon we're expecting to get new information on this aurora shooting suspect, james homes. his family attorney is planning to hold a press conference t comes hours after we got our first look at holmes in court. could his lawyers be preparing to make the case that this man is not guilty by reason of insanity? we'll talk about that in depth in "kelly's court". it is a story you can not miss today. a disabled man goes to a concert to see his favorite musician but he could not see the stage. what two men did to help him that will leave you feeling pretty darn good about humanity. >> he loved it. he was so, just, amazing. so happy and, i mean actually got to see him up close. he was really, really excited that he got the opportunity to do that. it meant a lot to our family. 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[ female announcer ] new ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. twenty-one vitamins and minerals. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach. refreshing nutrition in charge! his morninstarts with arthritis pain. and two pills. afternoon's overhaul starts with more pain. more pil. triple checking hydraulics. the evening brin more pain. so, back to more pills. almost done, when... hang on. stan's doctor recommended aleve. it can keep pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is rudy. who switched to aleve. and two pills for a day free of pain. ♪ and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels. megyn: back now to our top story today. syria confirming that it does have chemical weapons claiming it will not use those weapons on its own people but might use them on any foreign forces that interferes in its conflict. that attacks syria as it put it. according to the cia over the last 40 years syria has amassed vast supplies of mustard gas, sarin nerve agents and cyanide. a big chunk of these chemicals have been weaponized in artillery shells, bombs and missiles giving syria one of the world's largest stockpiles we believe of chemical weapons. the u.n. secretary-general is quote, very concerned that syria may be tempted to use those weapons. so where does that leave things now? john bolton is the former u.n. ambassador to the united nations and fox news contributor. in moments we'll be joined by retired general jack keane, former chief of staff of the army and fox military analyst. ambassador bolton, let me start with you. the syrian regime is holding on and it seems to be telegraphing something, you tell me, to the united states perhaps? to israel perhaps? about we'll not use these weapons against our people but if we get attacked different story? >> i believe half of that statement. i still think it is a very grave risk that faced with its potential demise that the assad regime or some of its generals might well decide to use chemical weapons against the opposition. i think they are serious about the threat of, on using them against foreign forces as well. but it's not just the use by the assad regime. i think we have to be worried about. if the regime falls or if there is anarchy inside syria the risk of terrorists like al qaeda among the opposition forces getting access to these weapons, or next door in lebanon, hezbollah, or spreading to other terrorist groups i think it is very real and should be of enormous concern to the united states, other nato allies, israel, really people around the world. >> why, why are we more concerned about hezbollah getting its hands on chemical weapons than we are about syria having them? syria, isn't that, you know, the same almost as hezbollah? >> well, it's a choice between two evils there is no doubt about it and i think this is one of the reasons why we ought to be very clear to russia, china and iran that they should exercise every bit of their influence, particularly russia and china, to tell assad that he should not use these weapons under any circumstances but i also think that we need real advanced planning as to how to secure or monitor or destroy those weapons in place and actually my fears go beyond chemical weapons. i think there's every reason to think syria has at least a research and development program in biological weapons and i think there is every reason to believe that iran and syria working together have additional nuclear facilities beyond that reactor that was devoid by israel in 2007. so this is a very broad problem. megyn: the stakes are big, that's obvious. general keane, let me ask you, syria comes out and says, don't worry, we're not going to use these chemical weapons against our own people. we would never do that. this is the same government that is massacring now the numbers are up to 17,000 of its own people. this includes women, children, babies. the reports out today they lined up a bunch of teenagers, hands behind the back and shot them. one guy had 18 bullet holes in them. some were in their pajamas. this is the government, all right, they will not use their chemical weapons on their own people. what stock should we put in that. >> i would not put any stock in that. we should make the assumption they would use these weapons against their own people. the weapons are there to begin with to preserve the regime. they're back on their heels because the rebels have a major offensive taking place in the regime strong hold, damascus and also out on the border. i'm convinced that has a matter of desperation these generals and assad would use these weapons. we have to make that assumption and put that into your planning factors as we're dealing with the final days of this regime. megyn: last week the reports were that the united states and israel were talking about possibly, possibly israel, going into syria and securing those chemical weapons and the reports were that the united states objected to that because we didn't want to give syria another reason to hate the west and cause more conflict in the world. what should we be doing, general keane? >> well i believe right now israel and the united states defense departments and also the cia and mossad are working hand-in-glove with this issue. i'm also convinced that they're working detailed plans on whether there should be preemption. that is, in other words prior to the use of the chemical weapons. if they have very good intelligence they were going to use it, or what to do when the regime collapses. that is either seize it or destroy it. what is not very well-known we did go into libya and secured the residue of chemical weapons that qaddafi had and man pads, shoulder-fired missiles, anti-aircraft type when that regime collapsed. our people know what to do here. the challenge we have is the chemical sites are extensive and there's thousands of tons of this material. so it's not going to be an operation that we would do overnight but the details of that i'm convinced are ongoing as we speak. megyn: so we tried, ambassador bolton, once again to go through the u.n. last week and just get them to threaten sanctions with a resolution and russia and china said no. when our president met with rush pun president vladmir putin this was not high on the priority list and we he can tracked no meaningful concessions. is the u.n. completely useless on this? >> i think it was a fool's errand from the beginning and i think the obama administration bear as heavy share of responsibility for wasting time on kofi annan's peace mission, wasting time on the idea that russia and china would agree with us that the assad regime would have to go and wasting time not pressuring russia not taking the necessary steps to break their alliance with syria. so we're really well behind on the political and diplomatic front. i think that is why it is so important now to say to the russians in words of one syllable, you need to do whatever you can and we believe your influence is substantial to make sure assad does not use the chemical weapons and makes it available to secure them if the even if the regime looks like it has fallen. megyn: want to shift gears before we say good-bye to talk about what we saw in iraq today. more than 100, at least 106 people killed in what they're describing as the deadliest day in more than two years. they were coordinated attacks across 15 cities. general keane, does it mark the resurgence of al qaeda there? >> pretty much so, megyn. al qaeda has been building its infrastructure back, safe houses, logistical infrastructure. they have been working on this for about 18 months. we've had a couple of large-scale attacks in the last six months. they really are at the doorstep of al qaeda. so they're, may not be back to where they were in 2005 and 2006 but they're clearly on their way back. megyn: what is the takeaway on that? >> well, the fact of the matter is is that we gave up an awful lot influence in iraq when we walked out of there and left no troops there. we lost our eyes. we lost our ears. that is the reality of it. havey people there and we still have a very limited counter-terrorist operation there you about it's very limited compared to what we would have had had we kept the troops there that our commanders wanted to keep. megyn: general keane, am bass for bolton. thank you so much. coming up an update on a high-profile disappearance. why they have the relatives and estate desperately searching for the king of pop's mother. could the accused colorado gunman claim an insanity defense at trial? it is almost certain he will try. we'll look in depth at his case and the obstacles facing the prosecution next in "kelly's court". >> i would say there is no such thing as a slam dunk case. it is a case where we will, we're still looking at the enormous amount of evidence and we would never presume that it could be slam dunk. we'll work very hard on this case to prosecute it just like we would any other case. [ male announcer ] it's a golden opportunity... to drive a car filled with as much advanced technology as the world around it. with the available lexus enform app suite, you can use opentable tmake restaurant servations... search wi bing... and listen to pandora. presenting the 2013 lexus gs, rx and the all-new es, the leading edge of the leading edge. during the golden opportunity sales event, get gat values on some of our newe models. this is the pursuit of perfection. megyn: "kelly's court" back in session. on the docket today, colorado massacre suspect, james holmes. there is suspicion that holmes who is committed one of the worst mass curse in history may use the insanity defense when he goes to trial. do you see the behavior in court? that he planned it well in advance and classmates say he was at the top of graduate of his neuroscience class, some are questioning whether that argument really stands a chance. joining me fox news legal analyst, lis wiehl and former defense attorney. mark iglar. thanks for joining me. what else is going to use as his defense, right? doesn't take a genius to predict he will go with the insanity defense. lis, juries don't like it. sometimes it works. john hinckley, jr.. >> andrea yates in the second child, that killed her five children very methodically. this is grasping at straws for the defense. they have nothing else. it is clear he was there. he told the cops about his apartment. megyn: they have all the evidence against him, they say they do. that is going to be his only legal option. >> that is what you have got to do. this is why the defense needs it. insanity defense at least gets death, get the death penalty off the table, prosecutor, if you will. i as a prosecutor wouldn't take that that is what i think mark would argue. megyn: mark, they will have to prove, if you assert the insanity defense you're arguing he did not know right from wrong at the time he committed the acts. then it becomes a the state's burden to prove that he did. how hard is that for a prosecutor under circumstances like this where most people look at this guy and say he is clearly nuts? >> right. let me first add one part to the test. they have to prove, the defense does, that he suffered from a mental defect or disease, and from that he did not know right from wrong. that is the first step, did he suffer from that? today's indication in court seems to help him out. prosecutors will point to the very extraordinary facts in this case, the fact he took the time to wear protective armor, to protect his privates, kneecaps, and head. presence of mind to know when the shotgun could no longer pump out bullets and kill innocent people to move to the assault weapon. when that jams to move onto a glock. all those things plus the booby-trapping plus a lot more prove that he knew right from wrong. megyn: how does that prove he knew right from wrong? does this prove he is methodical thinker, that he was the joguer and this was a live battle that he had to win. just because he was methodical and protective of himself does not mean he was not insane. >> megyn, have to put things together. meticulous lanning as mark was talking about, protected himself. megyn: let me finish my point. >> let me finish my point. here is what i think killed him for the insanity defense. when he says to the officers, when he is arrested, oh, my apartment, it's booby-trapped. somebody will get killed if they open it. that shows he knew right from wrong. megyn: i really don't see it. i think juries don't like insanity defenses i don't see how of those items get the prosecution over the hump. i want to show this. abc news to their credit got their hands on this video of him a few years ago. i'm not sure exact numbers. maybe control can tell me what year this was at this science fair. listen to the introduction and listen to him, to me seems very normal. we'll let the viewers decide. watch this here. >> going to become a researcher and make science big discoveries. that is good start. in personal life he enjoys playing soccer and strategy games. his dream is to own a slurpee machine. >> i'm james. over the course of the summer i've been working with the temporal illusion. it allows you to change the past. he studied subjective experience which takes place inside the mind as external work. i carried on his work in objective experience. megyn: this is six years ago. he was 18 in that video, lis. >> right. megyn: if you are the defense you will use that kind of imagery to say he was normal, and then, his 20s came around and as happens so often with young men and schizophrenia set in. >> if i'm the prosecutor, megyn, look he is smart, he is uncanning like a fox. he knows he can use these things. he probably researched. i wouldn't be surprise even research on insanity defense when cops bo through his computer. if he has all the things in line that is the argument he can make. he didn't know, megyn when he went into the theater whether he was going to live or die. if he is so smart i bet he thought through a insanity defense because there is no other defense. megyn: he is said to be so clever, mark, you know. ph.d student studying neuroscience although he was dropping out later which may be the consistent with the onset of mental illness, who knows but could he be clever enough to be laying a foundation for a an insanity defense? >> the answer is, question of course, everybody knows he has that ability. this will come down to what the experts has to say. if the defense doesn't like what the first expert has to say, they will line up for sure, who has the right mind to do this? nobody would. they need to kick the first threshold, he has some mental illness and has got some mental defect and they will try to find some way he didn't know right from wrong. hear is the issue, megyn, there is not a jury in the land will buy this argument. this all becomes mitigators this same jury in the sentencing phase assuming they say death, all that plays into why we should spare his life. megyn: i want to get, what a jury is likely to do, again, john hingeally shot our president. worked for him. >> the law was different back then. >> different standard then. megyn: before we get to that, lis, what was with the eye roll. maybe he was medicated but in court he couldn't keep his eyes open. he kept looking off. it was bizarre to watch. >> right. megyn: could this have been an act? what are the odds that they medicated him in the jail or over the weekend? >> both, both medication and an act. both put together. of course he has been traumatized. he mean just killed a bunch people. yes he has been traumatized but does that mean he is legally insane. the standard has changed since the hinckley assassination. megyn: how so. >> before hinckley you had to prove more than knowing that you knew right from wrong. because of the hinckley case, now can you form the intent? can you form intent due to mental disease or defect and did you know right from wrong. that is all the prosecution has to prove. megyn: mark, how do you go about figuring out, even though everybody wants justice and you look at him, you don't want merzsy, some people are insane. some people really are insane and some people don't understand right from wrong. how do you have the war of experts four on one side, four on the other getting to what it is true? >> you leave it in the hands of 12 people that is for 200 years how we decide things. they could still make the finding and still does finding of mental illness and he is on medication. at time makes so very little there are numerous facts i alluded to and many more we'll uncover which show he may have suffered from mental illness, that he knew legally right from wrong. our prisons are packed with people that have mental illnesses. megyn: colorado is not one of the states that has option guilty but insane like we've seen elsewhere so the jury could say he is insane but goes to the asylum when he gets better he goes right to jail. >> that's the problem. megyn: if he were found not guilty by reason of insanity, truly would be, go to the insane, i'm using term asylum and if you're deemed insane again you get out. >> i think a jury will know that in the first phase they can't know the sentencing. they would know when it came to sentencing whether or not he would be getting out. jurors will research that. they are told not to but they will. if they acquit, that is it. could be there in three months or six months, say, voila, i'm now not insane and i'm out. megyn: mark, before we let you go, the prosecution hasn't made a decision on death penalty, whether this will be a death penalty case or not. do you think this discussion about his mental state will affect that decision? >> no. i think they're going to seek death. since 1976 they actually only put one person to death in colorado. that was 15 years ago. there are only three people on death row. if there is ever a case that cries out for it assuming we'll use this law, this appears to be it. >> i don't see prosecutors taking the death penalty off the table. defense will argue insanity. that is one thing they have to argue but the prosecutor, they have to deal with the people in colorado. can you imagine being a prosecutor saying i took death off the table? i don't see that happening. megyn: panel, good discussion. thank you both so much. >> you got it. >> thanks, megyn. megyn: coming up, and we need it today, a truly uplifting moment at a concert for a country music king. blake shelton has no shortage of super fans but when one die-hard listener had trouble seeing from his wheelchair seat, his fans gave him a helping hand call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today. diarrhea, gas or bloating? 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[ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. megyn: after worries about her safety, police have confirmed that michael jackson's mother is safe with family members in arizona. catherine jackson was reported missing over the weekend by one of her nephews. she was thought by the family i guess to have vanished. at the same time the jackson family is fighting over michael jackson's will. she is the legal guardian of his three kids. she and the children are the beneficiaries to his estate. a feel-good story on a day when we really need one. a disabled boy has a truly uplifting experience at a concert by one of his favorite music stars, all things to thanks on the kindness of strangers. tess koppelman on the story from over land park, kansas. ♪ . >> reporter: country singer blake shelton is patrick connelly's favorite. he was very excited at the opportunity to see the star perform at an outdoor concert last saturday at oak park mall. the problem patrick's wheelchair kept him from seeing the performance. >> all of sudden he was crying he couldn't see blake shelton. couldn't see anything but legs for the people in front of him. >> reporter: patrick's mom and sister tried to hold him up for a better view but the 100 degree heat quickly got to them. all of sudde strangers offered to help him up. >> in today's world you don't see that much heartfelt and kindness from strangers. >> reporter: the two men held patrick for more than 20 minutes even though they were sweaty and visibly tired. they even took him to the front of the stage for the rest of the can concert where patrick got to shake blake's hand. >> i can't thank them enough what it meant for my family and patrick to see that. it just brought tears to my daughter and myself. >> reporter: after the concert patrick was able to go backstage and meet his hero. >> he loved it. he was so, just amazing. so happy, and actually got to see him up close. he was really, really happy and excited that he got the opportunity to do that. it meant a lot to our family. megyn: god bless. we needed that. our thanks to tess koppelman with our affiliate wdaf for that report. we'll be right back. : a party? 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