good night, anita dunn! [captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute ---www.ncicap.org---^ bret: the last of the healthcare reform bill gets out of committee, and we'll explain what is next and get reaction from the white house. secretary of state hillary clinton talks nukes with the russians, ours, theres and maybe iran's and two governor's races are shaping up to be major political battle grounds with national implications. all that plus brit hume's analysis and the fox all-stars right here, right now. welcome to washington. i'm bret baier. the version of healthcare reform that has received the most attention today received the votes to move forward. the senate finance committee gave a thumbs up to the so-called baucus bill, but that's just the first hurdle. jim angle has the story from capitol hill. >> ♪ happy birthday to you >> the celebration was for senator maria cant well's birthday but max baucus had more to celebrate because he managed to win a single republican vote for his healthcare reform bill, giving it the veneer of bipartisanship. >> i say my vote today is my vote today. it doesn't forecast what my vote will be tomorrow. >> snowe was careful because once the bill leaves the committee it lass a rocky road to the senate floor and has to be melded with a liberal bill from another senate committee which includes a government-run plan, and one senator told fox today, democrats will try again on that. >> when we get to the floor, we're going to try to get that public option, and we're going to try to tighten up some of those sub subsidies and penalties that you're all concerned about. >> but even some moderate democrats oppose that. >> public option tied to medicare levels of reimbursement is a non-starter for me, because i represent north dakota. i don't represent some other state. >> and senator snowe made clear she would not vote for any other bill until she sees it and knows what it will cost. the combined bill could be very different from this one. senator hatch and other republicans are wary. he says the next bill will be written behind closed doors and in the dark corners of the capitol and the white house. >> the bills that we have spend hundreds of hours working on are not the bills that will be discussed on the senate floor. >> the senate finance committee was the last one to finish its work on healthcare reform and the chairman was relieved to finally have a vote. >> we all understand we cannot afford the status quo. >> senators did get a chance to question the head of the congressional budget office which analyzed the spending and taxes in the plan. under questioning, he conceded that there is no way to tell if this bill will cover eventual cost savings in healthcare or not, and a 40% tax on cadillac plans like the unions get might be passed on. >> when costs rise, those costs are passed through to prices. that's not always true 100%, but it is generally true. >> the bill also slices some $400 billion from medicare spending over coming years and republicans are skeptical that will ever happen, but if it does, elmen dove said it would not affect the care that seniors get. >> the commitment to care for seniors is uncertain. >> and we are writing a bill full of spending quicksand, tax hikes and policy brier patches complete with c.m.s. regulatory scorpions and bad news bears. >> 29 additional people would get health insurance, but 29 million would be left uninsured, and even though democrats won today, senator jay rockefeller lamented the failure to do more. >> it needs to be said that we are not doing what we set out to do. it is a step in the right direction, but it is not enough. universal coverage has always been the goal of health reform, and leaving 16 million men and women and children uninsured is wrong. >> well, senator rockefeller may feel better about it than the labor unions who plan to come out against the baw baucus plan tomorrow because of the 40% tax on cadillac health plans like those the unions enjoy. the insurance industry was complaining yesterday saying it would drive up premiums. strange bed bedfellows, bret, on the long road to healthcare reform. bret: jim, thanks. healthcare reform legislation has a long way to go before it becomes a reality. here is a road map. behind closed doors, the senate finance committee bill will be merged with the senate health, education, labor and pensions committee bill, which includes a government-run health insurance option. that combined bill will then be voted on by the full senate. meantime, on the house side, three different house committees' healthcare reform bills will be combined into one and then voted on by the full house. the house bill and the senate bill will then head to what's called the conference committee, where a select group of lawmakers from the house and the senate will negotiate and combine the two different bills, again, all behind closed doors. the resulting bill from that conference committee must pass the full senate first, and then pass the full house before it is transported to the white house for the president's signature, at which point, it becomes law. well, let's get reaction now from the obama administration. wendell goler joins us live from the north lawn. wendell. >> bret, just a short while ago, the president called passage of the senate finance committee bill a critical milestone in the push to get healthcare reform in year, and while he said the bill is not perfect, he said its passage moves us closer to his core objectives. >> this bill goes a long way towards offering security to those who have insurance and affordable options for those who don't, and it pulls in some of the worst practices of the insurance industry like denial of coverage due to preexisting conditions. >> the finance committee bill doesn't contain the public option that republicans say would lead to government run healthcare but officials say it would provide the choice in competition president obama wants and that's one republican vote that they say counts for bipartisan support. >> we have a bipartisan bill. we seem to have checked both boxes. >> the president's chief of staff and his health reform czar will start to work with lawmakers tomorrow merging the finance committee bill with one passed by the health, education, labor and pensions committee. now, republicans consider the health bill even less acceptable than the one the finance committee passed today, and they don't expect this merger to correct what they see as the health bill's weaknesses. >> and then they're going to have to merge it with whatever the house comes up with, and they have another committee bill that is worse than the health committee bill. it is going down from here. i'm disappointed. >> the white house won't say what elements of the five committee bills are non- negotiable or which they are most important, but the next couple of weeks will be all about merging the five bills in a way that keeps moderates onboard without alienating liberals. bret. bret: wen wendell goler live on the north lawn. well, there is a lot of uncertainty about what the final bill will look like, what it will cost and whether americans will go along with t senior political analyst brit hume has some thoughts about that tonight. good evening, brit. >> hi, bret. in baking with the republican colleagues to vote for that bill, senator snowe says she still has reservations about it, especially about its final cost, and with good reason. consider what just happened to the bill in recent days. central to it was a trade-off. insurance companies would no longer be able to refuse coverage to people with preexisting conditions, nor could they charge sick people higher premiums. in return, the bill would require everyone, sick and healthy, to have insurance, thus providing the companies a stream of new people yums from the healthy to cover the healthy and the sick. the committee voted to weaken the penalties on those who refused to obtain coverage. that made it inevitable that many would opt out and pay the penalties an wait until they got sick to pay insurance knowing they could not be turned down. the insurance industry responded with a report yesterday that said the bill would raise healthcare premiums for everybody. it was denounced by the white house but that is beside the point, which is this -- the major cost of this insurance entitlement is supposed to be paid for by a half trillion in unspecified medicare cuts. does anyone believe that a congress that can't put teeth into its insurance requirement would make those kinds of cuts in medicare, perhaps the most popular program ever passed? bret: so the weakening of the mandate in the senate finance committee bill, do you think that has breatheed new life, perhaps into the public option or the government-run option? >> well, i think it will generate some further efforts to put the public option into the senate bill, the final senate bill. it's not clear to me that any bill can pass the senate with a public option in it. nor does it seem likely to me that if when they go to negotiate in the end with the house, as you described earlier, that if they produce a bill, the house and senate compromise that has that public option in it that they can pass it through the senate again, so i still think the public option looks like a goner, although there will be further talk about it in the days ahead. bret: thank you. minnesota governor tim pawlenti wants people in his state to be able to buy health insurance across state lines, part of a package of healthcare reform initiatives from the outgoing governor who is thought to be gearing up for a presidential run rmple the state democratic run calls pawlenti's plan a rehash of previously-failed healthcare initiatives. stocks today were mixed. the dow dropped 14. the s&p 500 lost 3. nasdaq gained 3/4 of a point. >> wall street types who love to play golf might as well cross one country off their travel schedule and the gloves are coming off in one crucial political match. we'll go there live n nt. the sixties were all about freedom. ♪ and now in my sixties, they are again. grandpa, are we there yet? i have the freedom to do what i want... and go where i want. grandpa, come on! freedom is what i like about my medicare supplement insurance. i can see the doctor i want, where i want, anywhere in the country. now your sixties can be a time of freedom again... with aarp medicare supplement insurance plans... insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. because any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare... will accept aarp medicare supplement insurance. anywhere in the u.s. the freedom to do my own thing, without worrying about which doctor i can see. medicare covers only about 80%... of your part b healthcare costs. the rest has to come out of your pocket. but with an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, you could save up to thousands of dollars... because it helps cover some of the out-of-pocket expenses... medicare doesn't. and only these medicare supplement plans... have the aarp name... and cover more people nationwide... than any other medicare supplement insurance carrier. call today and you'll receive a free information kit... with a customized rate quote to help you choose the plan... that's right for you. you'll learn about a choice of plans... that help cover some of the 20% out-of-pocket costs... that medicare part b doesn't cover, making it easier to budget your annual healthcare expenses. oh, grandpa! and you'll discover how convenient and easy... it is to use your aarp medicare supplement insurance. you just show your card. no hassles. at this time of my life, freedom is everything. medicare only pays for part of your healthcare coverage. you have to come up with the rest. it's all about freedom of choice. back in the sixties, i went my own way. why stop now? so call today for a free information kit. when you call, you'll also receive... this free educational guide to help you... understand your medicare coverage options. it's yours free, so call now. and learn how aarp medicare supplement insurance... can help make your sixties a time of freedom. again. bret: the govenor's race in virginia is getting tougher and nastier as election day approaches. there was a bruising debate monday night and carl cameron reports that today the republican candidate got some help from an unlikely source. >> the cofounder of black entertainment television, sheila johnson, is an ardent democrat and obama backer, but in virginia gubernatorial race, she's backing republican bob mcdonnell. >> i won't waste time and energy trying to live for someone else or let anyone intimidate me because i cross party lines. >> johnson has been under fire and apologizing since this video surfaced recently of her mimicking democratic candidate creigh deeds who sometimes stutters when speaking. >> we need someone who can really communicate, and bob mcdonnell can't communicate. the other people i talk to, and especially his people that interview him. >> deeds is leading by 9 points and went for broke last night calling mcdonnell a liar in a face-to-face debate. >> he wants this campaign decided on issues that he won't lie about. >> every virginia editorial board has written a report that mcdonnell should be ashamed. >> mcdonnell casts deeds as a tax raising backer on such things as the cap and trade bill, things deeds denies backing. >> bob continues to talk about the cap and trade bill and is spending millions of dollars to tell the voters it's not true. >> i found that to be below the dignity of a gubernatorial campaign, for creigh to say that. i'm sure he's not happy to have said that. >> maybe it was too strong of a word for a debate format, but the fact of the manner is he is a one trick pony. he keeps telling the same untruths over and over again. >> and the charges and the countercharges are likely to be repeated over and over again, and in the final three weeks, the print to election day. the polls are likely to tighten during this period as well. for the first time in five years in virginia, republicans are sounding optimistic and confident that they can pull off a big win in bob-r mcdonnell. it has been some time that they have headed into election day with this kind of lead into the polls. bret: carl, thank you. in the new jersey's governor's contest, chris daggett is surging. a poll released today shows him capturing 33% of the vote, enough to come within one point of chris christie, 40-39. daggett's plan to slash property taxes and his performance in a recent debate are credited for that surge. california republican governor arnold schwarzneggar cannot run for re-election and would have a tough time if he could. a poll out today shows schwarzneggar has his lowest approval rating ever, just 27%. 65% disapprove. the numbers are even worse for state lawmakers, with a 13% approval an 78% disapproval. amid the state's ongoing budget difficulties. well, you may not be able to afford to fly yourself, but you are praying, so that other people can. that story is coming up. first, russia throws a wrench in u.s. plans to make irandd bret: in news around the world, afghanistan's president is acknowledging irregularities in this summer's election but karzai says balloting was generally fair and worthy of praise, not scorn. karzai had enough votes to avoid a runoff but an investigation into the matter is ongoing. president obama says he will make make a decision on new troops for afghanistan in the coming weeks. he made the comments following an oval office meeting with the president of spain. west bank palestinians say their hopes in president obama have evaporated. the statement from the fatah party comes less than a month after president obama brought together palestinian president abbas and israeli president netanyahu in an effort to restart peace talks. fatah says president obama has caved into pressure from pro-israel lobbyists. >> the norwegian committee that awarded president obama the nobel peace prize is defending its decision today. its chairman says the panel disagrees with critics who say president obama has done nothing. he cites the president's overtures towards the muslim world and a decision to modify a plan for a european missile shield, and in russia, a bump in the road for u.s. efforts to pressure iran over its nuclear programs. dana lewis reports from moscow. >> if critics are right and time is slipping away to stop iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon, eye-level talks today between america and russia did little to beat the clock. hillary clinton said she thinks engaging iran and threatening sanctions is making an impact. >> at the same time that we are very vigorously pursuing this track, we are aware that we might not be as successful as we need to be, so we have always looked at the potential of sanctions in the event that we are not successful. >> but as the americans continued to threaten sanctions against iran, the russians appeared to back away from that. today the foreign minister said russian president dimitry medvedev didn't mean to say sanctions were inevitable when he was asked in new york following a meeting with president obama. he claims that dimitry medvedev meant that there are times sanctions become inevitable when all other measures are depleted and added that is not the case with iran. secretary clinton did report progress on nuclear arms talks with russia. the street strategic arms reduction treaty start which puts details on weapons for each country. a source tells fox news during the ongoing negotiations, both sides have agreed in principle to the most intrusive inspections of nuclear delivery platforms ever. if the deal is done, russians would expect american nuclear missiles at each site and count the number of warheads. americans would be able to do the same in russia. today, while clinton said the russians have been invited to participate in a missile defense system, the foreign minister said the new plans for a missile defense are not joint americas of america's and russia's, stating the more details, the sooner we will get to an understanding if we can get to an understanding with america and europe. today dimitry medvedev praised russian-american relations with the obama administration, but yesterday, the head of russia's strategic missile forces said if the start treaty expires without a replacement, russia is now prepared to start deploying new nuclear missiles that can carry up to ten warheads each. that threat likely to intensify the pressure on american negotiators to cut a deal. in moscow, dana lewis, fox news. bret: an american citizen who spent the last 41 years in cuba was arraigned today on hijacking charges. louis armando returned in federal manhattan court and returned to the u.s. voluntarily. he is accused of helping to take over a pan am airlines flight that left new york in 1968. also today, convicted cuban spy antonio guerrero was resentenced to 22 years in prison. an appeals court threw out his life sentence last year. one world leader who flaunts his contempt for america is now attacking one of america's favorite sports, and did the obama presidential campain ever really end? we report. you decide. the sixties were all about freedom. ♪ and now in my sixties, they are again. grandpa, are we there yet? i have the freedom to do what i want... and go where i want. grandpa, come on! freedom is what i like about my medicare supplement insurance. i can see the doctor i want, where i want, anywhere in the country. now your sixties can be a time of freedom again... with aarp medicare supplement insurance plans... insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. because any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare... will accept aarp medicare supplement insurance. anywhere in the u.s. the freedom to do my own thing, without worrying about which doctor i can see. medicare covers only about 80%... of your part b healthcare costs. the rest has to come out of your pocket. but with an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, you could save up to thousands of dollars... because it helps cover some of the out-of-pocket expenses... medicare doesn't. and only these medicare supplement plans... have the aarp name... and cover more people nationwide... than any other medicare supplement insurance carrier. call today and you'll receive a free information kit... with a customized rate quote to help you choose the plan... that's right for you. you'll learn about a choice of plans... that help cover some of the 20% out-of-pocket costs... that medicare part b doesn't cover, making it easier to budget your annual healthcare expenses. oh, grandpa! and you'll discover how convenient and easy... it is to use your aarp medicare supplement insurance. you just show your card. no hassles. at this time of my life, freedom is everything. medicare only pays for part of your healthcare coverage. you have to come up with the rest. it's all about freedom of choice. back in the sixties, i went my own way. why stop now? so call today for a free information kit. when you call, you'll also receive... this free educational guide to help you... understand your medicare coverage options. it's yours free, so call now. and learn how aarp medicare supplement insurance... can help make your sixties a time of freedom. again. bret: and now fresh pickings from the political grapevine. president obama has come under criticism for a travel schedule that looks like a campaign map, and now a new study supports that view. the associated press says three out of every four trips by the president and his key officials so far have been to the 28 states president obama carried in last year's election. 08% of the administration's official domestic travel has been to states likely to be key for the re-election effort. the a.p. says, quote "only this year, the taxpayers are fruiting the multi-million dollar tab." vice president joe biden actually made five trips to pennsylvania to tout the stimulus package. the report states taxpayers have spent almost a million and a half dollars for trips by other top officials other than president obama and vice president biden a white house spokesman says the travel is necessary to promote the administration's agenda. 'em embattled house ways and means committee chairman charlie rangel will face an opponent in his re-election effort, coming from a man who once worked for rangel as a special assistant and later his campaign manager. vince morgan says, out it's time for change. our district needs knew leadership that is in touch with the community and the issues that confront us today." morgan did not mention the ethics cloud hanging over rangel or last week's g.o.p. attempt to remove him from his chairmanship. some in the party's base are criticizing the democrat's leadership for supporting rangel. the huffington post rights "the democrats have to make it clear to the beleaguered middle class that they don't believe there are two sets of rules, one for the power players of wall street and washington, and one for everybody else." and the liberal daily coast writes "rangel should step down from his chairmanship until the ethics committee completes its work." and hugo chavez has identified another threat to his regime. the game of golf. the venezuelan president has moved to shut down two of the country's best known courses. "the new york times" reports that would make about nine facilities closed in the last three years. chavez says, quote, golf is a booj what sport. there are sprortses and sports. you mean to tell me this is a people's sport? it is not. his top ally is going in a different direction. foreign investors are developing ten new courses in communist cuba in an effort to raise tourist revenues. recapping our top story, the senate finance committee passed its version of healthcare reform legislation. where do we go from here? rich looks at what is next. >> rahm emanuel heads to capitol hill to meet with democratic leaders. they need to merge the? senate finance committee bill and a version ok'ed by the health education and labor pensions committee, known as the health committee. once they turn the two bills into one, the full senate will vote on changes to that bill. in the house, it is the same process, except you have three committees. bret: and it is all behind closed doors. how do the two bills compare? >> they both ban insurance companies from dropping customers and prohibit coverage denial because of preexisting conditions but there are significant conditions, primarily the government-run option. the finance bill does not have one. the health bill does. as for coverage levels, in ten years, the congressional budget office says the finance bill leaves 2 5 million uninsured, the health bill, 34 million, but the health version leaves out and almost assured expansion of medicaid and you factor that in, the number falls to about 9 million. then there is the age rating, a big issue, especially for groups like aarp. the finance bill allows insurance companies to charge one customer 4 times what another customer pays for the same plan based on age. well, the health bill allows insurance companies to charge only twice that. bret: so what are the biggest challenges for democrats in the coming weeks or months to get this passed? >> basically a variety of opinions on how to do this, especially within their party. democrats are divided on how to pay for healthcare. some senate democrats say a bill with a government option cannot pass the senate, an meanwhile, house speaker nancy pelosi has sent three versions of a bill out for cost estimates. all three have government options. bret: a long way to go. thank you. speaking of spending money, did you know that you are subsidizing airplane tickets for people all over the country? william la jeunesse is tracking your taxes with a look at program that makes the skies really friendly if you're headed in the right direction. >> to critics, the essential air service program is classic washington pork. subsidizing nearly empty planes to remote places so a few people can fly cheap on the taxpayers' tab. consider this california route. i paid $99 for my ticket one way. you paid $430 as a subsidy. it is a 19-seat aircraft. there is just two other passengers onboard. >> that's a lot of money for the government to be spending on a subsidy like, that especially a flight that might not have anybody on it. >> the flight to albuquerque is worse, averaging just one $192 passenger per day, taxpayers pay $2,200 per ticket. can you fly from harv to billings for $233 and taxpayers pay $2,877 per seat. local officials call the program a lifeline for rural america. >> when large corporations want to come to vidalia or the central valley, that's one of the first questions, what is your air service? >> when you have empty planes flying around being subsidized in huge amounts, you know, it's time to rethink the system. >> established in 1978 after airlines deregulated, the program was meant to maintain air service to rural america, but now once far-flung locations are no longer isolated. james town, new york, 77 miles from buffalo, all easy drives to existing larger airports, but congress has resisted ending subsidies to even those cities, because to small towns and voters in their districts, the air service is not only essential but deserved. >> as far as i'm concerned, it is the government spending my money on me. i feel very good about it. >> will ya la jeunesse, fox news. bret: the community group acorn has fired the director of the louisiana chapter. beth butler says she was let go after refusing to fire members of a land trust board who the national association wanted to dismiss. butler is the long-time companion of wade rathke, acorn founder, whose brother is accused of embezzling money from the group. acorn has lost much of its support since undercover videos surfaced showing workers advising prospective clients on how to break the law. the centers for disease control says the injectable form of the vaccine for the h1n1 virus will be available thursday. the agency says states have ordered almost 6 million doses of vaccines so far. well, the senate finance committee has approved its healthcare reform bill. we will talk about where we go from here with the fox all-sair in your home can be two to five times more polluted than the air outside. smoke, germs, viruses, allergens, pet dander, even smelly and potentially harmful voc compounds can actually be floating in the air you're breathing! but now you can clean that air with the incredible oreck xl professional air purifier, and bring fresher, cleaner air into your home. call now for no interest and no payments for one-year! the secret to oreck's effectiveness is its patented truman cell filter. only oreck has it. the oreck air purifier constantly moves the air in the room through its powerful six-stage filtration system. its electrostatic plates capture many impurities such as dust, allergens, bacteria - even viruses -- then puts clean air back in the room. with hepa filters, you could easily spend hundreds of dollars on replacement filters in just five years. but the permanent oreck truman cell is guaranteed for life and should never need replacing. just rinse and reuse! how clean is the air in your home? 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let's bring in the panel. mort kondracke of roll call, nina easton, fortune magazine and syndicated column columnist charles krauthammer. charles, you heard the president. your thoughts on today. >> slightly inaccurate. he said it enjoyed the support of people from both parties. in fact, it enjoys the support of one person from each party. he has one republican, olympia snowe, and i credit her. she is not a cynical person. she is extremely serious and sincere, and she actually has read the damn bill and came to a conclusion that it is better than the status quo. however, she made it very, very clear that she goes along with this, but she is quite unlikely to go along with the next versions. remember, this is going to have to be merged with the bill coming out of the senate health committee, which is to its left. for example, it includes a public option, which she opposes, and she will vote no if the public option is included, and even after, that it will have to be melded with a house bill, which will be way out there in left field, and she won't support that, so if the president is touting her support now is evidence of how much he reaches across the aisle, he's going to be stung when she goes the other way at crunch time. bret: to that point, let's listen in to senator snowe and also senator nelson. >> i think we have to move in the other direction away from a public option. i don't support a public option and won't support a public option. >> when we get to the floor, we're going to try to get that public option, and we're going to try to tighten up some of those subsidies and penalties that you're all concerned about, but at least this is the first step. bret: well, the first step there, nina, you hear senator nelson lifting the curtain that the government-run option is going to be rolled out on the senate floor, according to the democrats. we have known, that but they're talking about it now. >> public option is still very much alive in the minds of a lot of democrats, both in the senate and the house, so a ts remarkable thing about the senate finance committee vote today is how it didn't move the ball forward either on a bipartisan bill, because as charles mentioned, you had a vey tentative republican senator. she said "my vote today is my vote today. " she is not committed to following this process through. secondly, the public option, we also had chuck schumer saying today, from the committee, saying, look, i'm still wanting a public option. bret: and rockefeller said the same thing. >> so you have this split. this has done nothing to solve the split in the democratic party let alone to get republicans onboard. they still haven't solved the split. the other thing for people to watch is that the liberal groups now are sending out an ad campaign promoting a public option, because they say this new health insurance industry study that shows premiums will increase, they're using that as an an excuse to say well, you know, these bad insurance companies actually need competition. we need a public option. you're going to see more commercial advertising going up this week and next week pushing this public option. bret: white house press secretary robert gibbs was asked which is more important, a government-run option or republican support, and they haven't answered that question. >> the administration is going to have to get in here and make this bill passable, and it's going to not have a public option. you will have to buy off the liberals with something else, a millionnaire's tax or something to pay for, it but the public option won't get 60 votes in the senate. you can't get ben nelson for it or get evan bayh for it. >> he is having a meeting at the white house. >> i think what obama has to do is fashion a bill that doesn't have a public option, but that gives some sort of cover to the liberals that they can say that they got something, maybe more restrictions on insurance companies or something like that. >> based on this insurance exchange, it was going to be the cover and it has proved not. democrats who want a public option weren't satisfied by that. it's hard to see something short of a public option that is going to satisfy them. bret: here is the question i asked brit, charles -- did the fact that the mandate, the penalty for not getting insurance, it was pretty stiff at the beginning. the senate finance committee lowered that before they passed this bill. did that change, breathe new life into a government-run option among the views of senators? >> i think it does, but of course it makes no sense, because if the reason that insurance rates going to have to go up is because if you don't have a strong demand, you won't have a revenue stream out of the young and the healthy. well, then, the insurance companies either have to raise rates or they go bust, so having a government option as an alternative with lower rates would simply mean that the government option, the government plan would be heavily subsidized and would essentially be a government takeover immediately of the whole industry, and i don't think that's really hard to understand or explain so that i think once it is explained, it would be a non-starter. you have got to have a strong individual mandate or you cannot have the expansion of coverage that is proposed in all of these bills. bret: so now we go behind closed doors, the melding of the senate bill, the house bills come together. we have a long way to go. >> yeah, yeah. the president wants to sign a bill by christmas. if he is going to sign a bill by christmas, he is going to -- i say he is going to have to get in there himself or rahm emanuel for him, but calling back all the time, and fashion this bill himself. the gap is so wide between the two senate bills and then the house bill, somebody has got to bridge it together and it can only be the leader, and that's got to be the president. >> last word, nina. you think the senate version, when they put two bills together does not have a government run option. >> you can't get it through the senate with a government-run option. bret: even a trigger that says if it is not working the public option is triggered? >> again, the public option advocates oppose that. it is hard to see where that is going to g bret: we are where we are. we will look at big gubernatorial races in two states and find out what it states and find out what it all means when we come back. states and find out what it all means when we come back. [bell ringing] the way the stock market's been acting lately you may wonder if you've been doing the right thing. is the advice you've been getting helping or hurting? are the fees you're paying really worth it? td ameritrade's fees are fair and straight-forward. their research is independent and unbiased. their investment consultants are knowledgeable and there when you need them. so why not talk to one? announcer: call today to schedule a free investment check-up, or visit a td ameritrade branch. >> my opponent has been one of the biggest tax increasers in the general assembly, $3.5 billion in new taxes over the last couple of years. he is proposing another billion in taxes this year. >> you heard him restate a lie just now. i've not propose add billion dollars in tax increases. he wants this campaign to be decided on issues that he is going to lie about. bret: well, there is some sound from the debate last night in the virginia governor's race, and here is the latest polling from real clear politics. this is the average of the recent polls, bob mcdonnell with 51% an keye deeds, the democrat with 42%. we will start with this race, a big race in virginia. we're back with the panel. mort, what do you make of this and its importance? >> well, obviously barack obama carried are virginia, although va used to be a reb r. republican state. it is not a democratic state. it is a purple state, so a democrat can win in a democratic year, and the last two governors have been democrats. creigh deeds, however, is not mark warner, the first democratic governor in the line, or tim kaine, the current democratic governor. he is a much weaker candidate. he has been practically entirely negative against bob mcdonnell, trying to raise social issues when the economy is the big issue in the race, and mcdonnell did write this paper 20 years ago saying that it was bad for women to go into the workplace because it was bad for their children and that there shouldn't be child care and stuff like that, but he has been saved by the fact that his daughter was a platoon leader in iraq, so he can use that argument, and so i think he is free of that social issue and it doesn't work for deeds. >> and it's remarkable that none of that has taken traction in virginia. i have talked to some women in the virginia area, republican women, who say they wouldn't vote for him, and yet he is still that much ahead, and so i think this, more than the new jersey race, has turned more on national issues. the ads against creigh deeds have focused on cap and trade, raising taxes, trying to tie him to barack obama's policies, so in some ways, i think it tells us more about where red states voted for obama will be next year, but i also think you can't take it too far, because as mort mentioned, creigh deeds is a pretty weak candidate. he gave that fumbling answer about whether he would raise taxes to support the transportation infrastructure in the state at a time when he should have been very cheer on that. bret: do you think democrats wish terry mccauliffe was in this race? >> there is some talk about him. terry mccauliffe was a very, very -- he would have had that answer right. he could have raised the money. he is used to doing sunday talk shows. he is out there. he's not fumbling. he knows what to say, but yeah, creigh deeds has been a weak candidate, so, again, it is hard to read all that much into it. bret: let me turn to new jersey. you just saw the poll up there that we put up there. that is the other big governor's race and it is a three-way race because there is an independent, chris daggett who, is gaining steam after a performance in debate. there you see chris christie, the republican up. that is the latest poll out today. we have a real clear politics poll, an average of the recent polls and it is roughly the same, and it's very close, too close to call. charles, your thoughts on this race and maybe both races combined on their importance. >> well, we always overinterpret off-year elections because they are the only two-state races and it is all we got to talk about, so we have to pretend that they are rergts shaking. however, new jersey is really a key event. if it falls, and that is a democratic state, and it would be defeating a democratic incumbent, that would scare a lot of people in the house and senate who would be looking at that and wondering about the evaporation of the obama effect of '08. what is interesting is that the republican who had a big lead is losing it. it is largely because the independent, daggett is coming up. it is sort of like what happened in iowa in 2004 where gephardt and dean attacked each other, were way ahead and attacked each other savagely and kerry and edwards sort of snuck in and won as a result of the two big guys defeating and diminishing each other, but if the republican squeaks out a victory in new jersey, it's important. in virginia, it is less important, because it really is a purple state. creigh deeds is a very week candidate and he has to win in northern virginia, which is essentially a suburb of washington. obama carried it by 30 points. deeds is in single digits ahead. he looks as if he doesn't have a chanceing but it will have less national importance. bret: mort, for new jersey, republicans for the longest time have been licking their chops to win in new jersey. it seems even if they have a lead, they come up to election day and something happens. >> they have done it before. christy todd whitman won. >> but one interesting fact is that the conventional wisdom is the daggett factor that will elect corzine. people in the christie campaign, specifically nina's husband, tell me that that 13 points that he is showing in the polls, those polls identify him as an independent and that attracts voters in polls, but when you get on the ballot, and most of the counties and the state, he is hard to find. he's not number three on the ballot, so 13% is probably too high for what he will actually poll. bret: we will leave you out of this discussion, nina. >> sounds good! bret: that's it for the panel. stay tuned for, well, some fact checking fun. . the sixties were all about freedom. ♪ and now in my sixties, they are again. grandpa, are we there yet? 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