belarusian border, that says we'll see how far they are able to go. we'll see if air superiority is accomplished and try to do a battle damage assessment using american as well as other country sources to help the ukrainians and support their effort to defend their country. >> trace: one thing that turned the tide against the russians back in afghanistan was the fact that the afghanistan the afghans held their ground. it wasn't about winning. i am wondering if your senses the same. do the ukrainians have to win or do they have to stand their ground long enough to turn russian sentiment, turn the popular sentiment a different direction? >> i think they hold their ground. i think also there is another capability that they also have, as i understand it in ukraine, that is the stinger missiles, very effective in afghanistan. against the russian helicopter fleet.
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