Transcripts For FOXNEWS Hannity 20091017

you. [captioning made possible by fox news channel] >> the hidden items in the latest health care plan. and will the home owner tax credit leave you in the poorhouse? plus, how the dow hitting 10,000 really impacts wall street. it's a powerful biz block saturday. sean: so even as debate rages over obama's health care plan, and despite the fact that the stimulus has done nothing to address unemployment in this country, president obama says he's just warming up. now, there's a pleasant thought. now, yesterday, the president marked his very first trip to new orleans since taking office. and after spending less than four hours on the ground there, he was whisked away on air force one to of all places san francisco, california. and while speaking at a democratic party fundraiser, he revealed what's next on his radical agenda. and if you thought his priorities were misplaced, and the first nine months, well, take a look at what he has in the next nine months. >> i want everybody to know who our standing in the way of progress. i'm not tired. i'm just getting started. you can throw whatever you want at me. keep it coming. we're going get this done. we're going to get health care done. we're going to get clean energy done. we're going to get climate change done. we're going to fix our schools. we are going to deal with the problems internationally that i was elected to deal with. we are at a rare moment. sean: still in campaign mode. by the way. hold on to your wallets. first health care reform, then climate change, then cap and tax, so what will it take to end this administration's spending spree? and does the president at this point have enough political capital to accomplish his radical agenda? i'm joined now by fox news contributor, the one and only karl rove is with us. before we get to it, you brought your white board with us. only 43% of americans would vote for him for president today. you look at his approval ratings, slipped back into the 40's, but more interestingly, independents, he's losing, 46-41. and on health care, he's losing independents, 53-36. not a good sign. >> not a good sign at all if you're president obama or if you're democrats. congressional democrats are going to face the voters long before president obama does. it's not just independents, either. seniors have moved precipitously against his health care plan. and also interestingly enough, another group that's been sort of unanchored in the last lumme of elections, college -- in the last couple of elections, college graduates have moved against the health care plan, seniors, independents, and college graduates, are also driving the generic ballot toward the republicans and away from the democrats. sean: let's look at the generic ballot and congress' approval rating is now 21%. 21%. >> never seen it that low before. never seen it that low. sean: you got jon corzine in a blue state like new jersey. he's in the political fight of his life. you got charlie rangel, people want to throw him out of being the chair. house ways and means. harry reid is in the 30's in his state. chris dodd is in trouble in connecticut. you got paterson in trouble. and bob macdonald is probably going to be the next governor of the state of virginia. so is this really a referendum on obama or is this just the political tide changing? >> well, i think it's both. the political tides don't change unless something causes them to change. and over the last month, we've seen -- over the last nine months, since president obama's been inaugurated, we've seen massive new spending, horrific new debt, expansion of government, unsettles a lot of people and an attempt to take the most personal of decisions, your health care, and turn it over to a government bureaucrat. the political tide is shifting but not just the normal setting back to the norm. something set it in motion and the something that set it in motion is president obama's policies. take virginia. i will bet you a dime to a dollar that bob mcdonell is the next governor of virginia and when the results come in, i think we're going to see two very interesting anomalies. one is that northern virginia, which has been trending toward the democrats, is going to trend back toward the republicans. because of independents and college educated and southwest virginia, which has been sort of up in the air in a real battleground is going to end up back in the republican column. in large part because of seniors. and both of those are going to prove very, very damaging to the democratic gubernatorial hopes. sean: that brings us to the issue of health care. they're losing independents. they're losing seniors. now, a couple of things happened this week. we had the baucus bill come out of the finance committee but it's not written. we don't have a chance to read it. we only have some of the details that have been -- the democrats put in motion this week the ability to bypass the normal process of passing a bill in the senate and can use the nuclear option. you have some numbers to show our audience tonight. >> look. first of all, let's not invest a lot -- i'm going to show some numbers about the baucus bill but remember, the baucus bill was a vehicle. it was to get something out of the senate finance committee so harry reid can sit in a back room someplace and write what he considers the real bill. but the numbers in the baucus bill are revealing for the problem that the democrats face in writing a bill. and the gimmicks and tricks that they're going to use when they write the real final bill. this was an $829 billion bill. which came with $500 billion plus in tax increases and $400 billion in medicare cuts in order to pay for it. but what we need to keep in mind is that this bill has -- it's a 10-year bill. but it doesn't really begin spending a lot of money until the fifth year and doesn't ramp up pretty considerably until the sixth year and not fully operational until the seventh year. what we're really doing is -- in this bill is they're front loading the revenue and backloading the expenditures. otherwise, this bill would not be $829 billion. it would be a bill well in excess of $1 trillion. it's going to be in excess of $1 trillion for its first decade. of operation. just that it's going to begin seven years from now and operate -- be fully operational and in the 10 years after that, it's going to be well north of $1 trillion. and in all likelihood be in deficit. because they've got a bunch -- they got $644 billion of expenditures in the last four years and $250 billion worth of revenues in the first five years. they're front loading the revenues, backloading the expenditures. and relying upon a bunch of gimmicks. let me give you one example. the cadillac health care plans, they're going to tax them with a 40% excise tax in the baucus bill. and yet the congressional budget office helpfully said if you tax it, what's going to happen is in the second decade of the plan's operation, those revenues are going to grow 10% to 15% a year. there's $200 billion in the first decade. and an even larger amount in the second decade. and that's simply not going to happen. if you tax something 40%, you're going to get less of them and less revenue, not more. sean: i think this is all part of a grand scheme. maybe this is the conspiratorial side of sean hannity here. these numbers get confusing. we had a house bill that we analyzed. then we got the baucus bill. they've got to merge that in the senate with the kennedy bill. and the house, we have nancy pelosi saying she won't accept a bill without the government option. that's going to be merged with the senate bill. whatever that ultimately looks like. so it almost seems like they just think the american people are going to get con fuchede and they're not going to pay attention to this and pass in in spite of the will of the american people. does that work? >> well, it might be. and like you, this whole process is making me a little bit concerned about the cynicism in the white house. but the games they're playing in all these bills to stay in line with what the president said, i want something less than $1 trillion and i want something that is deficit neutral, they're playing games that assures that while it may hit those two goals in the first 10 years, it ain't going to hit them in the out years and they all know it. they may be banking on the american people being angry in july and august, but not hot and bothered in october and november and december when they're actually trying to pass the real bill. you're right. they got five different bills. three in the house and two in the senate. merge them into one bill and run it through during the holidays and don't give us time to look at it. sean: that's the thing. they won't even give us the 72 hours that the president promised during the campaign that he would give the american people. here's a political question i have for you. i don't think the people around the president are serving him well. they lit him go to copenhagen. frankly when he should be paying attention to the troops and they're engaged in a war against the fox news channel. i think they're getting distracted very quickly, unemployment is now close to double digits here. and more importantly, it seems, if the president in that clip we just played, if he's going to force health care, if he's going to force cap-and-tax, these democrats and these marginal districts, if they are pressured to vote for this, i think he's forcing them to walk the plank, their careers are over. so is he being served well politically is the question? >> well, there are two answers to that. no, he's not being served well because the number one problem facing the country is the economy. and he's talking about everything but the economy. but i do think, look, i think there's a very cynical attitude in rahm 'em nume's office that says we -- rahm 'em nume's office that says if we lose 20 or 30 house members on the health care bill and deficit spending -- we'll still have a majority. but a lot of members are going to be looking at what happens in virginia here in a couple of weeks and new jersey. even if corzine somehow gets in by spending vast sums of money, people are going to say that was -- he shouldn't have had that kind of problem and obama is a weight on us. if virginia goes the way i think virginia is going to go with republicans taking the governorship and lieutenant governorship and a.g., this could be a real signal that the american people are revolting against all of these spending and deficits and government expansion. that's the hallmark of the obama administration. but i think frankly they're looking there saying we can suffer to lose a bunch of those moderates. let's make them vote to give the tough liberal san francisco liberal vote. but if they get defeated that's their problem, not ours. sean: and they want to pass this before -- they want this bill finished before these elections. these gubernatorial races. i got to thank you by the way. i wasn't feeling well yesterday. you filled in for me at liberty university. i owe them a trip. and thank you very much. >> well, i was happy to do it but boy, you're popular there. it was sort of embarrassing to go there and say i'm the stand-in for sean hannity. "awww" -- sean: you're killing me. karl rove, have a great weekend. >> thank you. same to you, sean. sean: we got a lot more coming up on tonight's "hannity" coming your way. >> we are closer than we have ever been to passing health insurance reform. sean: what do americans really think about health care? >> that's the kind of reform that all of us need to support right now. sean: a "hannity" special is coming your way. >> tell me -- i didn't tell you -- >> you're a public representative. i'm a student. sean: remember the student who took on barney frank gets ready to tackle another democrat. >> a classic example of journalists sitting on their hands. sean: mark furhman on how media has made murder a big business. all of that plus frank luntz and ken blackwell, lots more "hannity" straight ahead. looks like we're in for a bumpy ride. go ahead, ignore me. but in this turbulent market, you're going to need help... protecting some of your assets for retirement. an axa equitable annuity could give you... guaranteed income for life. i'd call them, but what do i know? i'm just the 800-pound gorilla in the room. don't worry. i'm here. want guaranteed income for life? axa equitable is redefining what you expect from annuities. ooh, peanuts. woman: (thinking) so, i stick this bounce bar inside my dryer and for about four months, it'll freshen my clothes automatically? wow, let's see you in action. hmm, i wish all my chores took care of themselves automatically. ( ♪ ) (dryer buzzing) ( sniffing ) enjoy automatic freshness for about four months with the new bounce dryer bar. >> we are closer than we have ever been to passing health insurance reform. health insurance reform that will finally make quality care affordable for people who don't have it and bring stability and security to people who do and slow the skyrocketing health care costs that are crushing our families and our businesses and our state and our federal government. sean: the president selling health care last night and making some big promises. but the question remains, are you, the american people, buying this and should you? we're going to bring you a brand new hannity special that will give you a look at what government health care would mean to you and your family. universal nightmare 2.0. that's coming your way next thursday night 9:00 eastern. but let's take a look at where the debate stands right now. joining me to discuss this is the author of what americans really want. frank luntz is with us. welcome back. you're out there in vegags. are you gambling? you're a pollster. >> i'm a pollster. i know better. the odds aren't good for people so i watch others gamble. and by the way -- sean: yeah. >> there should be no gambling on had health care bill. i'll do a nice little segue here. the american people would not bet on it. they would not bet that it would be deficit neutral and will not get what obama is saying that it will increase their quality and they certainly would not bet that it will give them more control. sean: one of the reasons we're staying on this, this is now the key month, the key weeks in this debate. because we got the baucus bill. you see how antsy the democrats are. they're threatening retribution. against the insurance companies for pointing out this is going to cost the american people a lot of money. you have done some surveys, one of the big questions you were asking, who do you trust to decide on health care? and you found -- >> we found that doctors beat politicians by about 7-1. and that family doctors beat everybody else. we've spent some time listing -- listening to doctors and medical professionals. they said if they're cutting our reimbursements, that means that it's going to be cutting our ability to treat patients. and number two, if doctors are basically handcuffed, then who's going to provide the medical care? we spend so much time listening to senators and congressmen in washington, sean, that know nothing about health care. when the medical profession is begging, listen to us. and i'm going to say something that's controversial. the american medical association does not represent so many doctors out there that are frustrated with what's going on in washington. and are afraid that because of this reimbursement, because of these cuts, they won't be able to do the medical care that they know they need to provide to people. sean: i'll one up you. because i agree with that statement. and i know a lot of doctors. and i've talked to a lot of doctors. there's not one that i know that supports this bill except for the people that handed out white coats at the white house in a photo opportunity. and i will tell you the aarp is not serving the elderly in this country because they got a political agenda. one of the big questions, frank, has been the senate finance committee had an opportunity to vote on an issue that they put this bill online for 72 hours. there's an oregon congressman. he has a discharge petition. right now. and he's trying 0 get enough people to support -- trying to get enough people to support it. and trying to get the bill online 72 hours. what are the democrats resisting that? you have some data to back it up. >> yes. we found that -- even higher priority, if you guys can pull up the approach that you want government to adopt. it's chart number three. the american people, even more than demanding that washington read the legislation, the american people want to read the legislation themselves. and here's the challenge. it's a 1,000-page bill or in this case a 1,400 bill. i don't think 72 hours is enough. but the public would say if you deny us that opportunity, to know what's in this legislation, then we're going to deny you our support. and it's one of the reasons support has been driving. i give that oregon congressman a lot of credit. oregon is having this huge fight right now with the medical community, and it's one of the places where doctors are saying listen to us. the politicians don't necessarily get it right. listen to us. we're the deliverers of health care. we care about our patients. we care about what happens in the medical community. pay attention. sean: and frank, i'm not saying that there's not a need for reform. i would love to see tort reform. i would love to see those without insurance get the tax credits so that they can get in the system and get a policy. portability issues. medical savings accounts. none of these issues that conservatives support they weren't allowed to bring these to the table. when you ask the question, define health care in america, most agree that there is a problem but they don't necessarily believe the government option is the answer. >> they do believe that the health care system is "seriously troubled." that's where the majority of americans. but there are less people today that believe it's a crisis or seriously troubled than there were six months ago. and the reason for that is that more people are starting to feel like this health care reform will actually make the system worse rather than make it better. and by the way, i'm always telling people who talk about tort reform, it really should be lawsuit abuse reform. too many americans think torts are a french pastry. sean: there you go. well, it would be a tart. i don't want to eat many french pastries, frank. one of the things you did ask that i really found intriguing was the idea that if in fact, and i think this is for blue dog democrats in particular to pay close attention to, you ask the question of people, if your representative, if they vote for the government option, you will -- and this is -- the results i find fascinating. about 50% want them out of office. >> and you've got one out of four americans that would actually work for them to be removed from office. all the intensity in the health care reform debate is among those who are saying this legislation is being pushed too fast. it costs too much. it takes away too much control. doesn't provide quality and doesn't protect the patients that it is meant to. and the american people are saying, thks the biggest warning that can be provided, particularly to conservative democrats and moderate democrats, if you vote for this, you're going to have a problem one year from today. sean: frank luntz, interesting data. we'll continue to follow it. these are the important weeks. appreciate you being with us. >> thank you. sean: and coming up, republicans, they tried to call a vote on the countrywide mortgage scandal yesterday. democrats dragged their feet. now, we got video. wait until you see how immature they were on the floor. we've got the tape. that's coming up next straight ahead. 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(announcer) brink's home security is now broadview security. call now to install the standard system for just $99. the proven technology of a broadview security system delivers rapid response from highly trained professionals, 24 hours a day. call now to get the $99 installation, plus a second keypad installed free. and, you could save up to 20% on your homeowner's insurance. call now - and get the system installed for just $99. broadview security for your home or business - the next generation of brink's home security. call now. sean: and tonight in "hannity's america" remember the harvard law student who called barney frank on the carpet for failure to take responsibility for the country's financial meltdown. they had this exchange back in april. >> in your account of how the subprime mortgage crisis came about, you mentioned the reagan administration, the bush administration, the republicans in congress, conserve tisch, but it happened on your -- conservatives but it happened on your watch, do you acknowledge any responsibility at all for what's happened? >> this is the right wing approach. >> i'm still waiting for a very simple answer. >> i'm waiting for you to tell me -- i didn't -- >> you're a public representative. i'm a student. >> which allows you to say things you don't back up. first of all, you are a student. students are entitled to full constitutional freedom of speech. you made an accusation that's entirely inaccurate. >> i asked how much responsibility, if any, you can say none, that's fine. sean: and that studentas name is joel pollock. and he is a law school graduate and folks, were so impressed by his composure during that exchange that they called on him to run for office and now it's official. mr. pollock has entered the political fray. and he's taking on illinois democratic congresswoman jan schakowsky in the 2010 congressional race and he says it was what he saw at the town halls this summer that persuaded him to run. now, we wish mr. pollak the best of luck and hope he fearlessly attacks those democrats. the countrywide mortgage scandal continues to develop. the ranking republican on the house oversight committee, darrelliesa, -- darrell issa, was set to call for documents relating to sweetheart mortgage deals and democrats, they boycotted the vote. congressman issa's office caught the entire thing on tape. take a look at this. >> ♪ hit the road, jack sean: where were they? they were sneaking out the back exit. take a look. >> ♪ that's right hit the road jack don't come back, no more, no more, no more, no more ♪ sean: that's what the democrats meant by taking responsibility and cleaning up washington. how impressive. and tonight's waste 101 update from the white house itself. according to president obama's recovery office, the stimulus directly created a total of 30,383 jobs. but if you take a closer look at how much stimulus money has actually been spent, you may not be so impressed with those results. according to abc news, the federal government awarded $2.2 billion to contractors for the purpose of creating jobs. that means each one of those 30,000 jobs cost you the taxpayer upward of $72,000 each. that's for each job they created. but the white house says they don't buy abc's math and they claim the jobs created, and that number is likely to grow, as they continue to assess this with the new data. but with unemployment now hovering just under 10%, i don't think i would be taking a victory lap just yet. and here on this show, we have brought to your attention some of the more controversial appointments made by the obama administration. but even president obama hasn't made this mistake. at least not yet. red faced democratic party officials in mobile, alabama, are explaining this week why they appointed a deceased man to a newly formed panel. the guy's name is republican old smith jr. he's a long-time democrat. and he was tapped to serve on one. party's panels to help reform an executive committee. but the only problem is mr. smith, he passed away back in november. i guess they're using the same vetters as president obama. that's the news from "hannity's america." let nt not your heart be troubled. the great, great, great american panel is straight ahead. 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[applause] come on. that's what i'm talking about. i appreciate that. what grade are you in? >> fourth. >> you're in fourth grade. well, now, first of all, i did get elected president. so not everybody hates me now. i don't want you to -- i got a whole lot of votes. sean: nobody hates this president. but if you oppose the president's agenda, you hate him. racist. what do you think? >> first of all, let's cut the 9-year-old some slack. he's becoming politically aware for the first time. but this is the template of the dominant media culture that disagreement equates with passionate hatred. and i think the thing we have to say to taron, good people can disagree and sometimes it is human nature sadly to disagree and disagree -- in disagreeable fashion because we all have those impulses. but i think we would be much better served -- sean: let me be clear on one thing. i'm not criticizing the little boy. i thought that was a cute question. but he's picked that up from the media. he's picked that up from people -- >> from the atlantic to the pacific, there's a fault line. and on one side of the fault line are those who are trying to grow the state is becoming more intrusive, we're spending more and on the other side, are those of us who believe in liberty. and since aristotle's recordings and observations, there's been a tension between the state and individual liberty. and we are in the course of a substantial debate right now. sean: major philosophical debate. >> major philosophical debate. i still think the tone has got amped up. i say that on both sides of the aisle. conservatives. progressives. cable tv. and just ordinary people coming out who are really -- sean: you're looking at me. >> which i'm part of. but i think there are a lot of people who are speaking in terms and in tones that mean that this little boy has picked up on the fact that people are heated. sean: go ahead. >> this frames it. this is february cover story. this says we're all socialists now. the heck we are. and that's all we're saying. that's what they're saying at the town hall meetings. that's what they're saying at the tea party. sean: this is important. because look, it was democratic party officials saying that people were political terrorists. tim mcveigh wannabes. this is attacking people. from the government. because they showed up and they expressed their point of view. >> you can show up and you can express your point of view. i don't think there's a reason to be ugly about it. i think there were a lot of democrats who did this nonsense during the bush years and it was equally wrong then. >> i got to tell you and we're going to talk about speaker pelosi in a little while but when she decided and the democratic majority decided to call people peacefully dissenting a mob or compare them to nazis, that was so over the top, even with the typical indulgence of the asm bet networks and others -- alphabet networks and others who cheer lead for the left that the american people said hang on. sean: i think a lot of this is coming right directly from the whowls. they're -- from the white house. they're involved in retribution, legislatively, democrats are now going after insurance companies for opposing their health care. taxpayer funded -- >> no. sean: excuse me. but chuck schumer said it this week. the white house has a website. we pay for it. attacking the fox news channel. is that appropriate use of taxpayer dollars? >> i have to say i think when the fox news channel goes on a witch hunt for sars which bush had, i think there's something legitimacy in calling you out on it. sean: calling us out on it. so the white house is going to spend taxpayer dollars instead of dealing with the war in afghanistan, a war in iraq, unemployment they promised wouldn't go above 10%, they're going to spend our money to attack a news organization? >> i think the white house is competent in being able to attack multiple things at the same time. sean: she's right. i am sorry. and i'm probably part of the problem. i do not get a continuingy feeling up my -- a tingly feeling up my leg every time he speaks. >> this is the most substantial power grab in 233 years of history. they are growing the state that no president has had 32 czar lings. -- czars. 32 czars that have amassed the power, avoided transparency and accountability. >> and it's bipartisan. remember, it was senator robert byrd, democrat of west virginia, and more recently, senator russ feingold, democrat of wisconsin who blew the whistle. it will be interesting to see if the white house decides to include them. sean: we're going to come back and i'll give you a chance to see if you have intellectual honesty about "the czar criticism" you don't like it. >> you got it. sean: we'll have more of our great, great american panel straight ahead. sean: and we continue with our great american panel. you said it's a witch hunt that we're on about these czars. i have a question for you. if you have a guy that's our safe schools czar, has a history of drug and alcohol abuse and tells a sophomore in high school when the sophomore says that he's having a sexual relationship with an older man, i hope you used a condom, when he praises a guy associated with the north american man boy love association, harry hay, we found out from worldnet daily this week that he was once a member of the radical group act up. are you saying that sean hannity is on a witch hunt when i think this man does not deserve that position? >> i'm saying that i think a lot of those pieces that you just pulled deserve to be looked into. but that a lot of them aren't quite true. the sophomore boy was 16. that's age of legal consent in massachusetts. which is where he was. and i don't understand why a conversation that happened 21 years ago is worth this type of intersection. because i would rather know what they're doing now. sean: i'll tell you why, because it's inappropriate for a school counselor to give that advice. >> look at what he's done. the obama administration. they've circumvented, first you look at jennings, his portfolio. it is a portfolio of -- equal to that of an assistant secretary of education. but he's avoided any deep background search. sean: none. >> no senate confirmation or -- where a lot of this would have come out. >> do you think in many school districts across america a guy with that going on would be allowed to stay in the position? i don't think -- i know things have changed in public school but i dare say in scottsdale, arizona and around arizona, a guy like that wouldn't be in the position. sean: the answer is, well, kevin jennings was the one who said the boy was 15. not sean hannity. he said it in his own words. but he was actually the legal age of consent. so that's the advice we're going to give to a sophomore in high school who's having a relationship with an adult? >> a classic problem. there is a difference between what may be legally correct or legally cognizant and what is morally correct. and foff a situation -- a young -- and to have a situation, a young student being told, alyssa, by a counselor, that's cool. older guy, yeah, use a condom. >> that is not what he said. sean: and smiled at me for two years afterward after i saw him. that's what he said. >> what i think is we would be much better served by you focusing on what they're doing now than who they were before they were in power. sean: he wrote the forward for a book "queering elementary education." does that -- maybe you have a different point of view. but a lot of parents don't think that's good advice. how dare he think he can circumvent the value of parents and say did you wear a condom? >> 53 congressmen today took a stand. and i hope that number grows and calling for his resignation. >> but what i find interesting is that call was sounded by you in large part. sean: i'm proud of it. and i'm proud of it. >> that's so interesting that we have elected officials who are taking their cues from cable news. >> how many times do we see situations when john dingell used to head the energy and commerce committee and "the new york times" would report on something and then those on the left would take a look. there's always a dynamic for action involving the media which in the real world should be a watchdog rather than a lap dog. sadly we don't get it from the alphabet networks anymore. sean: president obama, here, nancy pelosi and i harry reid. harry reid is in the 30's in his home state. the chances of him getting re-elect rd slimmer -- re-elected are slimmer by the day. >> he'll be fine. sean: how much do you want to bet? >> i'm not a betting girl. sean: $1,000 to your favorite charity. >> done. and to yours. sean: here it is. president obama goes to san francisco, congress has a 21% approval rating, here's what the president said about pelosi. >> every day, every day, she is subjected to constant criticism and griping. and then there's the other party with style and grace but most importantly with steely determination, she does not back down. she is there doing battle each and every day on behalf of not only her constituency here in california but people all across america who are looking for a fair shake. sean: i think that sends a message to the american people. >> it really does. and it really says that obama, reid and pelosi are the iron triangle. sean: united. >> they're carrying the full load for the left. and they're trying to undermine our market economy. they're trying to take over large segments of our economy. sean: and we're short on time. >> and raising money. $34,000 a couple. to that thing. a lot of people out of work. can use that kind of dough going to pelosi's campaign. sean: last question. do you think congress with a 21% approval rating, do you think the 40% of americans that identify themselves conservative want her agenda? >> no, absolutely not. but i also think that there are a lot of republicans in congress who haven't -- who have an even worse approval rating. sean: not that bad. if this keeps up, i predict the democrats are at risk of losing the house. especially if they continue on health care. guys, great panel. good to see you. thank you all for being here. let not your heart be troubled. when we come back former lapd detective mark furhman and realizes how america's obsession with high-profile murder cases has turned violent criminals into celebrities. that's next. some lunch. you hungry? yeah. me too. (door crashes in) (broadview alarm) (gasp and scream) go! go! go! go! go! go! (phone rings) hello? this is mark with broadview security. is everything okay? no. someone just tried to break in. i'm sending help right now. thank you. (announcer) brink's home security is now broadview security. call now to install the standard system for just $99. the proven technology of a broadview security system delivers rapid response from highly trained professionals, 24 hours a day. call now to get the $99 installation, plus a second keypad installed free. and, you could save up to 20% on your homeowner's insurance. call now - and get the system installed for just $99. broadview security for your home or business - the next generation of brink's home security. call now. sean: there's no denying that crime plays a big part in the media. a new book goes as far as to say the country has gotten to the point where measured certify just another branch of the -- where murder is just another branch of the entertainment industry. "how the media turns crime into entertainment and subverts justice." former lapd detective mark furhman is here. good to see you. a pretty provocative title. you go on in the book and say murder is a big business. a branch of the entertainment industry. >> well, it is. and unfortunately, i think the o.j. simpson case was unintentionally something that the media, the news media, actually looked at and they looked at their ratings. and talk about a watershed of ratings and money coming in to these networks. and they realized and from that point on, it became reality tv. but it was real. sean: but what does it mean? does it mean that people -- that this is entertainment for people that follow these stories from start to finish? or do people want justice? or is there a combination of the two? >> i think people want justice. i'm not sure that some of the media outlets actually are on the same train. because they're competing. and any time you have something that gets big ratings, and you have news organizations competing for certain people, there's only so many victims, witnesses, and suspects to go around. sean: or jurors. when a verdict comes in. >> the jurors are everybody that you're corrupting. you're corrupting with your opinions, your thories, when you have people that really don't understand what they're batting around as far as facts, you are polluting that jury pool. sean: you've experienced this. what was it like in the o.j. days? you talk about o.j. -- >> i do. sean: the story that got it all started is how you refer to it. but in those days, everybody wanted you on teach. i called -- you on tv. i called you at key moment in certain crimes and trials going on and say mark we need you tonight because we need your insight. because i think the audience would want to hear what mark furhman had to say based on your life experience. >> it's interesting what you say is -- i work for fox. we both know that. i still work for fox. and fox has taken a different tack on this issue. they hired myself. they herd dr. baden and have certain prosecutors that we give advice to you, to greta, to geraldo about certain cases and there's something else. dr. baden and i will not compromise an investigation for a rating. sean: yeah. you've always -- let me put it this way. and this has been a great mystery to me. and you go through a number of cases, drew peterson, you talk about o.j. or scott peterson. you go through all these cases. and people have asked me, why does the media tend to focus on one case but not another case? if it's a missing child, why do we focus on this child but not that child? >> you know, it's a difficult formula. but when you look at the statistics, there's probably upward of 60,000 to 100,000 juveniles that are missing in any one year. about 100 of those will be dead. about 80% are found. so you got some that are still missing. and about 100 children that are dead. but the formula is a white female under a certain age gets the attention. it usually starts from the geographic area where it occurs. the networks, they start it. and it's picked up. like caylee anthony. it became a cottage industry. we have dolls, t-shirts. everything. sean: that's nuts. >> it is nuts. but it stems from the media saying that she's missing. sean: is there anything that we do wrong, like on a program like this, for example, nationally holloway -- natalie holloway or scott peterson, we cover those stories at the time because they were big news events and people wanted to watch it. is it wrong to cover a story -- >> it isn't. but there's -- there should be a built in ethics and spobt. -- responsibility. sean: where do you cross the line? >> doctors and nurses take an oath. and one of the parts of that oath is do no harm. well, i think detectives, they -- i think in essence, do the same thing. do no harm but the case is about the victim. i think everybody would agree. but the victim is forgotten. when you -- when you see these cases, it becomes more about the drama, the satellite people involved with it. and all these people, you have to understand, that when we talk about a case, i share what i find out with the police agency that's involved. sean: you do? >> i talk to them. sean: if you find something or have a thought or a theory, you'll contact the police? >> i will contact them and i will check to make sure that i can go somewhere. or should i not go somewhere. because i understand what they're doing. and i think that's one reason that fox has me working and dr. baden. dr. baden and i talk a lot. sean: and dr. badson a good friend, have you ever -- and dr. baden is a good friend, have you ever found yourself into a pgs where you are on to something here, if you bring it up publicly it will hurt the investigation? >> i sat on things. one was the caylee anthony cails. -- was the caylee anthony case. sean: can you tell us now? >> i cannot. i gave my word -- sean: that's fair. >> that the investigators trusted me. sean: i was surprised you brought up the strange death of vince foster. >> well, sean, the part of this where you see, the media is paying for news. they're paying to lock people in. they're using -- they're buying fuzzy photos. on cell phones. to use some justification to get people. and these are compromising things. and it's the lack of journalistic ethics. they don't have to do this. well, the vince foster is a classic example of journalists sitting on their hands. sean: but there is all the time -- there's a lot of media outlets. we call checkbook journalism. and they're paying for guests. they won't admit to it. but they're going to say we're going to fly you to new york. we'll put you in a hotel. we're going to give you an allowance for food. and by the way, we'll pay for those pictures that you have of so-and-so. which is really just the back door way of what? paying them to be on the program? >> they also get an scluste -- exclusivity on a contract when they take that money that they have to talk to them and only them. zwhr -- sean: is that unethical? >> absolutely. you are compromising the criminal investigation. if that person is somebody that's going to be a key witness in a criminal trial, what do you think will come up? sean: down the line if it's somebody that has some knowledge of the case, and then they end up at trial, and they contradict something they said on the show, you can tear them apart so that -- >> absolutely. sean: right? >> there's an unconscious thing that goes on when somebody is brought to new york. for the first time. they're given -- their first $60 steak. their first $100 bottle of wine. and then the interviews in the next morning. there is some kind of an attitude that i owe these people something. i owe them a good interview. or they're going to be some better adjectives used and more emotion, is there going to be something that now the jury is going to see and all of a sudden your testimony doesn't reflect exactly what you said? sean: it's funny because i'll never another get, i was flown up from atlanta to be on the sally jesse rafael program. the producer, we'll fly you up. we'll put you in a hotel. i'm like, i used to live in new york. this is not that big of deal to me. but i could see somebody that maybe doesn't have a lot of money. maybe never has been to new york. pretty enticing . and that's -- at that point they can be compromised. we have to run in a second. >> the compromise in the investigation and the lack of investigative journalism that goes on. look at what happened with the acorn. you have two people that nobody knows that scoops the entire news industry in america. sean: i don't know -- what do you do with your hands? you look like you've been beaten up some wood in the background -- in the back yard. what have you been doing? >> i've been rebuilding -- i've

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