memorable speech. >> read my lips-- >>, but there were new taxes and the problems for bush senior, there weren't the promised spending cuts from democrats to go along with t now, we know what happened to him. so, a warning sign to republicans, be careful what deal you sign on to now? ben stein, charles payne, dagen mcdowell. we've got adam lashinsky and charlie gasperino and back by popular demand, suzie welch. suzie, you know, i guess you go into this more cautiously? >> well, you're a historian, newt gingrich is a historian. ronald reagan reluctantly agreed to taxes on businesses and wanted everyone to the table and lo and behold the tax hikes and spending cuts never materialize, it's a sucker punch and probably going to happen again. anything the super committee would create would be a frankenstein deal. two different worlds used and ideologies, whatever they put together is going to be sort after monster and we can be sure we'll see tax hikes and little spending cuts. >> neil: ben stein? >> i think we're going to he see tax hikes, it's baked in the cake and responding to taxes for many, many, many years now and there are going to be tax hikes. >> and don't you think we will be even more irresponsible with spending? >> we're spending irresponsible with both. and we'll be italy, if we don't quickly cut spending. >> the food angle, we could do worse. >> you're right. >> neil: charles? >> i don't disagree, it's a treacherous slippery slope and you know, we saw it before, with ronald reagan and with the first bush presidency and it's, i get worried when i hear the g.o.p. start to talk about this because i think they're getting sucked into the public relations aspect of it, a game that they never do very, very well at at all. so they better be very, very careful not to set themselves up, because, you know, i agree with you. i don't think-- look how much money our government brings in, are you kidding me? it's the spending. >> it's the opposite, charles. >> not even part of it. i think it's just the opposite. neil, what's interesting. the president bush who said read my lips was the politician, and the one that allowed capital to be raised was the statesman. >> it was more than-- >> i think that these republicans, and by the way, i don't hold off high hopes for this super committee, i mean, this is a lousy way to legislate to make policy. they'll try and they'll probably fail, but i think they're trying to do what they think is right and i don't think they'll take anything to the rest of the congress that doesn't include spending cuts. >> all right, number one, we're going to have tax hikes a year from now if they don't do something to extend the bush tax cuts, number one. and pat toomey and the republicans did take a deal to the democrats that would raise 250 billion dollars in revenue. it would lichlt deductions, but lower tax rates even further and the democrats won't touch it, they don't want to reform the tax code. they want to raise taxes, pure and simple and they're trying to back the republicans, they're trying to back republicans, let me finish my sentence. back republicans in the corner, the republicans the only deal to a budget, the only barrier are the republicans and they're not willing to raise taxes. >> neil: all right, charlie. >> politics. >> i don't think, i mean, look it, herman cain is still leading, the leading republican right now. why is that? there's something going on in the republican party. if you raise taxes and you're a republican, you are dead meat. i don't think any republican could go along with tax increases right now. i think it's totally-- >> you know, i do agree that everyone is-- >> everyone's looking at the political talking point and suzie, my problem with locking yourself into the talking points then even republicans who would want to close tax loopholes and credits some equate it with raising taxes on everybody, fall into being electrocuted and democrats then who try to address the growth in entitlements, some way or another, are seen her ticks. >> they can't win because they talk about henning cuts and get democrats to talk about spending cuts, what they're talking about is lowering the rate of growth. >> neil: absolutely. >> they're not talking about cuts. average people understand cuts, they're talking about slowing it down. you can't win because no cuts are ever going to match the revenue enhancements, tax increases, frankly, that they sneak in. >> neil: that means this whole thing is a charade. >> a disaster. >> neil: the mini version of congress and a mini version of something ends up being as pathetic as the bigger version. so then what happens? >> when they put these both sides together, i joke to a lot of people. it eliot more like they're cobbling together two roller derby teams. and listen, maybe, because the expectations are so low, we might get something out of it, but the main thing, entitlements, you talk about something that's going to be delayed. we're talking about things that might kick in 30, 40 years from now. >> what did you guys really expect from the super committee? here is the bottom line, we have divided government. when he you have divided government. you have gridlock. we're going to have a chance to undivide government next year. >> not necessarily. >> that's when we'll know whether we take on the entitlement state through massive tax increases or through more cuts and that's the bottom line. >> okay. >> nothing is going to happen. by the way, if any republicans signs on to a tax increase, that person is dead politically. that's like obama reversing-- >> charles, disagree, we had divided government for a while under ronald reagan we got stepped on and the decisions, a compromise. >> no, no, not different at all. divided, and-- >> the political-- >> the guy that got stepped on, but it's possible. if we use the excuse we'll wait until after the election, already what they're talking about a the committee and-- >> no, no, no, you're point is ridiculous. >> it's ridiculous? >> and why we have more-- >> and i would have charles hit you, that's what i would do. >> he no, you'd have me. >> neil: i don't think we make that much progress. what we're talking about is damaging, slowing the rate of spending by another 1.3 trillion dollars, when the deal is reached, we will have another ten years more than 9 trillion dollars in additional debt than we do now. where is this train going? >> notice, i notice nobody is talking about clinton. now, clinton was not my favorite human being, but on the other hand when we did have clinton as president, we had made tremendous progress on the debt and i'm a republican never voted for a democrat, but made tremendous progress on the debt. >> he's right about that. you're right. we turn red in the face again. >> there was leadership in washington. that's what was going on. there was actually somebody who stood up and let's find a way to make it happen. >> and gasperino shows no leadership. and raising tax reform and-- >> all of these guys who are associated with this, they won't be in office a year from now and they might want to try to figure something out. >> neil: all right, every day spending 40 cents more than we can possibly-- day in, day out. >> it's scary, very frightening. >> neil: it is, it is. and then the wealthy don't have to worry about it. and it's nice to know it frightens everyone else. >> i'm scared for you. >> you're getting me in trouble when you say that. >> neil: i'm sorry, i'm sorry. when we come back, government-funded general motors hitting more bumps in the road. and profits down 15%, stocks cut by a third and trying to get taxpayers out of this investment completely? . >>. >> all i want is a refund, refund. are you crazy? refund? refund? i know you're worried about making your savings last and having enough income when you retire. that's why i'm here. to help come up with a plan and get you on the right path. i have more than a thousand fidelity experts working with me so that i can work one-on-one with you. it's your green line. but i'll be there, every step of the way. call or come in for a free portfolio review today. and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. 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[ male announcer ] want great taste and whole gin oats that can help lower cholesterol? honey nut cheerios. ♪ >> and good morning everyone, live from america's news headquarters, i'm jamie colby. honoring and helping our veterans, that's something that lawmakers on both sides of the aisle can agree on. right now though some 850,000 vets are unemployed and in their weekly addresses, both the president and republicans say that's unacceptable. >> we ask the men and women to leave their families and jobs and risk their lives to fight for our country. the last thing they should have to do is fight for a job when they get home. >> we owe it to our veterans to ensure that they come home to a strong economy so they can transition into civilian life and support their family with a good paying job. >> both are calling for the passage legislation that will help our unemployment vets get back to work. joining us as we half chief of staff as our guest. back to cavuto on business. >> neil: can't believe it. that was nearly a year ago and general motors stock going in reverse. and seems to be stalling and 50% drop in profits and charles payne, and cut ties now? >> absolutely. now, listen, we never should have had the ties. the free market could have handled this. look at the problem. the stock biggest hit since the ipo, losing money like crazy in europe and focusing on the cruz, and unfunded pension liability that could hit 27 billion dollars and the stock has to hit between 65 and 130 to break even. >> that defies the most basic advice you would give to investors, still when the stock is down and-- >> i disagree. >> neil: well. >> and i disagree, because right now there are people who own stocks they should have sold in 2000. that's the worst mistake holding on thinking every top is ordained to come back. this is the disaster and america needs to get out and get the private markets in tlfrjts the business is still good, here. >> angry. >> neil: go ahead, adam. what do you say he's getting wrong. >> first of all, it's not a normal investment, if it were, dagen is absolutely right. where we've made a long-term investment, charles. the fact that the stock is down from its ipo price is meaningless. it would be meaningless if you invested in a normal ipo a year ago, which this isn't. but it's down a little bit. so what? the question is, is it a good investment in america's future? you think no. i think yes. that's fine, but not, but the stock being down doesn't change things. >> adam. >> go ahead. >> i just like to know why this is good in the long-term? no one is really told me what they've got coming in the future, what their long-term prospects. i haven't heard anybody think that gm is going to be a great company in five years. >> the business model is-- >> you remember the argument. >> neil: suzie-- >> you remember from a year ago multiplier of hundreds of thousands of jobs and-- >> suzie, suzie, go ahead. >> and the business model when you've got the pension liabilities and you've got a company that was sort of run into the ground, sorry about that pun, by for-profit guys in suits and not necessarily the government that's destroyed gm. the management before was not doing a great job either and if gm had been allowed to go bankrupt some of the pension liabilities would have been cleaned up, but we-- >> and the business model that can't win. >> we put a lot of money in this thing. the real issue is, i don't know the answer and i thought maybe adam knew and maybe neil knows, what is going to go? is gm's business model going to be good in five years? >> charles. >> they did go through bankruptcy, just at taxpayer expense. they could have done on on their own. i love gm, love a the lot of their cars, i love the chevy volt as everyone knows. no, the dumbest car on the planet. but my point is that a lot of their stuff is great, but they could have done all this have in a regular filing, regular bankruptcy filing. it didn't happen and look what we're stuck with. go ahead, ben. >> well, we have a company here that is one of the basic companies notice united states of america. it employs hundreds of thousands, or close to that of workers and incredibly important part of our defense spending manufacturing establishment. we didn't buy it as taxpayers to speculate in the stocks. we bought it to prop up the american industrial establishment. a we were falling into a very-- >> and my point is-- >> very useful investment. >> my point is, we're in it, there's no need to get in a rush to get out of it. at least we're not majority shareholders anymore, hallelujah for that. >> but, that sounds like, sounds like the blueprint for a stalinist country. the government is going to prop up manufacturing. none of those things have worked out. >> i don't think that's true, the government propped up manufacturing in world war ii and worked incredibly well and we're-- >> the three quarters of the world was destroyed for our manufacturing to sell to after world war ii. and i get to the bint-- they worked incredibly well. >> i don't know the answer to the question of their business model. i mean, we're in this. and charlie, charlie, we're in it to keep people employed. >> i don't know either. want to point out to everybody, we do intend to get out of this investment. no one intends for the u.s. investment to hold it forever. >> yeah, but adam-- >> and people on the upper-- i plan to get off this ship, didn't work out. >> 27 billion dollar unfunded pension liability right now and bigger as the taxpayers have to-- >> ben stein i'm worried, every time you're in a west coast location, in vegas, anything west of the mississippi you go comy on me. but, that's okay. >> no, it is not comy to want to keep general motors, the general motors-- >> you know you pick and choose who you want to save. which is what adam defined-- okay, we're going to take a break here, you see the family in a small michigan town. they care for their sick children in their own home. their business, right? and because of that they're being forced to pay hundreds of dollars a year in union dues, money that needs for those kids. the gang from forbes getting to the bottom of this incredible story. teas coming up at the top of the hour. that's up next here. and forget black friday, now it's black thursday, thanksgiving thursday, that's a sign that retailers aren't really worried. >> coming up from the thanksgiving dinner table to the mall? depends how you're doing that day with the in-laws. right? . >> neil: you know the sales plan. >> as long as i've been on the fox news channel. >> neil: and a deal by thanksgiving looks dicey at best right now. some super deals for shoppers on thanksgiving don't look now, but that is looking real and it is happening. and wal-mart, the latest retailer trying to goose its holiday business starting black friday a day early, on thanksgiving, 10 p.m. opening up the doors, what do you think. >> pass the stuffing, let's go shopping. i think it's --. >> and you and jack, running past the greeter, got to get that plaza. >> i think they're doing it because they're scared and worried. aren't you scared and worried? what indicators are saying don't be scared and worried. >> neil: when i'm scared and worried, i never go shopping, ever. >> they want to get the deals, deals, deals. >> neil: this doesn't look hike desperation. >> dave: it's a combination of desperation, we're seeing christmas trees up and pretty good soon celebrating 4th of july. >> i've worked for you eight and a half years and every year you make me do this exact story and every year it's earlier. it is a decade of one upsmanship and midnight opening for kohl's, macy's, best buy. >> what about 10 p.m. >> it's two-- it's earlier than midnight. if it wasn't wal-mart at 10, it's someones else 11 p.m. >> and it's competing with online. >> neil: what does it say about your relatives, thanksgiving day, i've had enough of you, i'm he heading out to wal-mart. >> i'm like the last person shopping for anything anywhere, you know, thank god. >> neil: is it a sign of desperation. >> i got a fox tie. >> neil: not on the part of the people who-- >> and i think, listen, here is one of the, i hate to play amateur shrink here, why not? roll the dice is little bit. it's ingrained in people's heads that we're in a deep, deep, deep recession and maybe, and people may think this is worse than what it really is and i'll tell you, you know, they're trying to get to figure out ways for people to spend and consumption is way down and that's part of it, too, yes, the whole online experience which, again, i'm not really part of this world. i don't shop, my wife does the shopping, i just pay the bills. >> pen steben stein sales go upr year, not as dramatically, but-- >> i don't see consumption, the data and statistics online that it's off not dramatically. i don't know after single interesting, that people buy more because the stores are open earlier. i'm the not sure that exists. >> neil: that's a good point, makes up for the prior ones which were not. that's kidding. i want to thank suzie and certainly want to thank dagen mcdowell and charlie. kind of nice having charlie completely away from us. all right. and kidding. up next, forget santa, forget santa. our little elves, earlier holiday stocking stuffers for you, and best holiday gift of all, cash. what's going on here? 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[ male announcer ] michelin knows it's better for xerox to help manage their finance processing. so they can focus on keeping the world moving. with xerox, you're ready for real business. >> if walmart can start early so can we. that will give you pre-christmas cash. >> hot on united rentals . really dirty finger nail stuff coming on strongment adam, what do you think of that? >> typical charles momentum play. it expensive. >> he doesn't have dirty finger nails. >> i have a gift for you, neal. american greeting. it is cheap and that is cash for the viewers. >> dan, what you think? >> greeting card business is good. high margin is good. and as usual i will go with an index because i don't trust individual stock pickings. >> so this is a particular. >> vti. >> y