Of ukraine. The exact number is unknown according to the data. By the ukrainian authorities, russia deported or forcibly removed 19,546 children, these are children for whom exact data , name, surname, circumstances of deportation are known , to date, only 386 children have been returned, but the actual number of deported children may be much higher, hundreds of thousands of children may be kidnapped, because it is not known what is happening in the occupied territory this was stated earlier by the president ial commissioner for children s rights, gerasimchuk, and more. The boatswain and lvovova belova, this court investigates war crimes, it is located on a base in the netherlands, and these days six children who were successfully returned from russia came to the hague, they meet with dutch politicians and tell us what they had to go through and with us in direct communication from the hague bbc correspondent Diana Kuryshko diana greetings who are these children and what did they say in the newspaper , we welcome the sisters of the children from mariupol and kharkiv here uazia these are the payers who told the historical ilya how his mother died in front of him who buried his eyebrows in mariupoli, how he was kidnapped, veronika told about the interrogation in russia only because her mother eats cola, the children shared their stories and it was felt that they are aware that these stories should be told, they told us in the comments that they are here for the sake of those children who are all excuses they are here for the sake of those children, the whole team cannot hear these stolen voices. This is the name of this big advocacy tour to support attention to the issue of russias abduction of ukrainians. So we are just now seeing this meeting of children with dutch government officials, and what was it like for them in the childrens stories, this is what this trip can change with these stories. And she talked about it herself, and to be honest , it was clear from her that she was so impressed because it is not adults, not politicians, who sit in front of you at the table and tell stories about how mother died, it is children, it is an elevenyearold boy who says that he hasnt seen his mother for more than a year because she was sent to a concentration camp in mariupol. This is a story about a boy who has family in ukraine and is told not to worry, we will find a language in russia. The minister was shocked, she told the children deserts, you are well done. Thank you. And what are you telling this story, and they promised support in general . These days in the netherlands show everything about support for ukraine. About support for the issue of the liberation of ukrainian children, and the netherlands promised to raise this issue at all international platforms. They began to provide ukraine with a party specializing in dna technologies. To help identify you , to appeal to ukrainian children, and there really was very, very much attention for children, for example , they invited and did not even listen to them, and everyone were just in shock and these stories thank you thank you diana it was a correspondent of bbc ukraine diana kuryshka from the hague and cases of forced removal of children from the occupied territories and tens of thousands of russian officials keep repeating that they are saving children from war, but how does deportation take place, here is one story like the Russian Military during the occupation , children were taken out of the boarding school in the mykolaiv region, when a fullscale invasion of the school in the village of novopetrivka began , 15 children of different ages remained , the youngest was eight, the School Principal natalya lutsak and her husband moved to the school to be with them and together with the children in july. Last year, the Russian Military took them first to the occupied crimea , then through the kerch bridge to russia, but natalya and the pupils managed to escape, she told us last year what they had to experience during our deportation , how can i tell you, they ripped our soul out, we understood that somewhere inside i was crying. Thats what those who saw me off will tell you. How did i lose someone from the group, its so scary, i cant do anything about it to do i say this all the time, i am an old man, but i cant do anything, the children threw their shoes into the pillowcases in the garbage bags, that is , there were no such bags, no one understood my tears of disappointment. We took the shafts, we didnt talk at all, i said valeriy, we are in a civil marriage, you are free, you can get together and go this is my destiny, this is my position , this is me he said no , he cried on the last train there, i saw this for the first time, they ripped out the soul , but i understood that you we are leaving ukraine we even saw that bridge, the crimean bridge, we saw it all, oh, we drove on it only in 2014. Now i understand when the war really started there, and i watched the news when there was a moment of silence. Those people and i, it all happened. Thats why i say someone who was not in the occupation. Say something, judge , it should only be eyewitnesses, its them. Im not saying there personally for myself, what i just experienced, you talk to those people. I ll repeat myself once again, its not be dismayed by these words the president was cool. Do you believe that you were there in this territory, but we didnt forget about you . She told the children that. That yes, they are special, you are little patriots, you are all the time, russia can take the children away at any moment , so take them away, because this is the forced transportation of children, it should have ended in some way for me, if you took it upon yourself, you are forcibly transporting, well, look, i am my mother 15 children we are on the front line, thats how much we talked about. Well, im responsible for them. I want to stay until the last one. I have a basement. Well, its like a family. Yes, were a family and we want to. We dont want to leave our house. Its been 32 years. I i work in such an institution with such children yes today i say everything has been reassessed everything with everything in a different way i think that god forbid that the war should force people to simply look at everything in a different way to reassess well, unfortunately, this is what happened oh, i think everything will be good everything will be fine as best as possible for everyone i think that all children will return to ukraine, we must fight for them the story of natalia lutsik 15 children from mykolaiv deported to russia, why not read this article on our website bbc. Ua and talk about ways to return children from deportation with myroslava kharchenko, a lawyer at the save ukraine Charitable Fund myroslava greetings what mechanisms do ukraine use to return children from russia and so on . Thank you for the question. Unfortunately, we do not yet have the state. Ukrainian children, i can tell you about the mechanism by which we return children to ukraine. We have already returned 176 children from the territory of russia and from the temporarily occupied territories of ukraine. It is all very, very, very difficult. Process, we have such operations that lasted for three months in order to be able to take away one child, but there were also other situations when we understood that it was necessary to act just immediately and quickly so that the occupiers did not take the children to the institution from where they came it will be more difficult to take away we organized one such organization in one day thats why its all different ive got the appropriate packages of documents and each time depending on where the child is in which institution these are different packages of documents we already know from experience what the occupiers require before what will they be careful about . What will they do . Dont accept, thats why we are ready every time. Mothers or other legal representatives go to pick up their children or persons whose children are authorized by the Ukrainian Government to take the children every time. These courageous women overcome an extremely difficult path 1012 days on the way or only there and then back, its all very, very, very difficult , uh, they take away children with a fight, they give them back, unfortunately , and there are often obstacles at the border. And the interrogations are ongoing. The fsb is the first interrogation that we encountered. This interrogation is what lasted 13 hours, another mother was interrogated for three days, another mother was interrogated, after two days, they forced aa to pass a Lie Detector Test in order to take her to the place where this test is taking place, she was escorted blindfolded by armed men and imprisoned the car was taken in an unknown direction. That is, it is scary, first of all, it is very scary and dangerous. But mothers understand that it is necessary to go, it is necessary to return, cheap cranes are constantly asking for help and we are doing Everything Possible to return our ukrainian children, but in general, will ukraine be able to return the children which in russia, for example, have already been adopted , we have about two minutes left for this, and i think so, but we need to make quite serious efforts. Unfortunately, for this, we need to identify these children first, but for this there are all the means and mechanisms, there are face recognition programs, there are various tests , and then when the childs face will be identified , her location will be established, it will be quite easy to declare her legal claim to return the child, and i think that they will not refuse here, the only thing that needs to be done is this mechanism and we always ask for help from Foreign Countries so that they help us develop this mechanism and become an intermediary state or a guardian state it is called differently there, so you can return everyone thank you myroslava kharchenko, a lawyer at the safe ukraine charitable foundation, was in touch with us, thank you, that s all on todays song , lets tell more stories. Look for more stories on our website bvc. Ua and on our pages in social networks. We will be on the air again on monday at 21 00. Take care. I, ladies and gentlemen, vitaliy portniuk, mykola veresen, are here with us. With you, with all the people who are watching now from the press and are doing the right thing. In the war, out of the war, and so on and so on, not only the two of us and not only those who are with us, but we will have guests, as always , we will start with military affairs, serhii grabskyi , a military expert, a participant in scenic places, a reserve colonel of the armed forces of ukraine , good health, mr. Serhiy good evening. Greetings, look at such and such a question. God , im too optimistic. Today , a missile carrier was blown up by the russians. Im not always the same. Maybe ill read it somewhere later, but when they blow up, you know when ukrainian missiles are bombed in the dry dock in sevastopol. When russian boats are blown up by themselves, there may be a chance to restore the grain agreement. Well, if it is true that the Ukrainian Army is now such that the estonian intelligence will be afraid of it, and you should not think that it is weak, it is very strong because it is that intelligence is considered the best in nato, they say what they see signs of redeployment of russian fleets of all boats to novorossiysk from crimea, this also means that they are afraid, and this means that it is possible to somehow renew the grain agreement if the russians are afraid, what do you say to mr. Sergey first of all, this is a desert wind, a hot wind, and in particular, she experienced it once in the desert when there was cancer. Therefore, the impression of such a ship is a rather significant asset of our defense forces; secondly, what kind of grain agreement can we talk about if the russians in they do not take part in it and we did Everything Possible so that the movement of our convoys or ships was carried out even without this agreement, by the way, today, according to my data, the ship left our ports and no one attacked it , no one attacked it, and therefore the answer is yes , definitely we have every reason enough it is optimistic to talk about the fact that we can restore the connection between the ukrainian ports and the ports of the Mediterranean Sea or even further the ships that provide the transportation of food cargoes, and in principle we can, that is why the russians are so desperately trying to attack the spoils of the danube delta because they understand what is there in principle. There is no need to go beyond the territorial boundaries of romania, but to attack ships in the territorial waters of any country is a lot of suicide for russia, it is no longer possible, please. By the way continuation of this story with the donetsk department. Today we received information that romania declared that it will shoot down russian drones if they fall into its territory. To what extent, i would say, intensifies the conflict between russia and nato. Well, you know. The statement was that these drones do not specifically fly to the territory of romania, but can accidentally fall on it. Well, accordingly, romania will accidentally shoot it down. Sorry , it will not accidentally shoot down those drones that accidentally hit to the territory of romania in order to ensure the life and health of its citizens , that is, they see in this not an act of aggression, but a certain coincidence connected with the military conflict, but this will in no way change the basic trends of interaction, not interaction, but in principle, the relationship between nato and the Russian Federation, but it is one thing when the romanians believe that they are accidentally shot down by drones, it is another matter when the russians believe that their drones are shot down by the military members of the country, but this is not one and the same well, not one and the same, but i think that the russians are restraining this rhetoric here because they understand that they are not able to oppose nato. Well, i want to remind you that the soviet union, having the power and militaryeconomic potential more than russia did not even shoot in the direction of nato , and here it will be considered as a provocation, including aa, for mutual appeasement of the parties, because you know how to increase the level of conflict between nato and russia now , and the other side does not want it, because it is not over yet not even deploying it yet started, if it is true, Additional Forces and means of nato, nato contingents of the baltic countries and poland, that is, you know mr. Sergius, im sorry, but does it exist , do you know, maybe no one knows, and maybe there is no algorithm, some kind of rule, because then you can constantly say that the russians and we accidentally a then on the second day again by accident, and on the third day we did not want to, and so it happened , the rocket went off by accident, and so on and so on, that is, on such a coincidence, there is some algorithm in which article of some nato documents, what if seven times by accident, this is the eighth time that we are spitting accidentally or not by accident. We will do something just interesting. Because they are really on the edge, they are constantly on the edge. If their weapons fall into the territory of darumun, you know, in my deep conviction, a well, first of all, there is only one article, article five of the nato charter, which stipulates that in case of aggression against one country, it emphasizes aggression against one country, and then all members of the alliance must stand up for this country and act a single organism and thats it, you know, the devil is in the details, what is considered aggression, and thats why i emphasized that the romanians will shoot down random aa objects that fly into the territory and again, in my opinion , as long as the alliance there will be no reason to say that they are ready to resist russian aggression, they will try not to escalate the situation. After all, we must understand that we are dealing with a certain ee with a certain extent unpredictable and objects in im sorry subjects of International Law if so far is called the Russian Federation, so they can do something wrong, and here you have to understand that the Baltic States today remain quite vulnerable to russian attacks, and you understand the direction , they simply will not have time to react physically in order to delay, in the event of a breakthrough of a russian tank column, this it is not happening yet, but i repeat once again, we dont know we know perfectly well who we are dealing with and there is an element of unpredictability, and they, uh, i mean , the nativs dont want it, they want it, you know calmly do everything as necessary so that later, if necessary, you can immediately react and neutralize any attempt by the russians to commit any act of aggression when it will actually take place, yes, mr. Sergiu, thank you. Well, just then, such a saying is appropriate. Is the weapon of the Russian Federation. We will also say romanians. We accidentally hit what was flying over us. I worked with you by accident. Why . Well, it turned out that way, but from the sea, from the sea to sukhodil, it is more true that as to sukhodil, see another comment, what is that element the number of accidents will gradually decrease as the americans, who appear constantly and investigate what actually happens, work out the algorithms for how this happens , and there may be more such accidents , they will become more effective, and this is also an element of preparation for the future confrontation between nato and the Russian Federation if er, the war on our fronts will drag on until the time when nato will be forced to act, what do they really want . Look at sukhodil from the seas, too, the same estonian intelligence was skeptical about the possibility of overcoming the distance to tokmak. What is happening around tokmak . If you look at the map, ukraine can and is slowly moving towards this goal. This opens the way to both melitopol and the sea of azov, how much did the estonians spend in this case, you know, i can say 50 to 50 at the moment why. Because the russians are still aware of the critical threat to their further advancement of the Ukrainian Defense forces, and according to some sources, it can be said that they transferred only in this direction at least three airborne divisions, that is, the most combatcapable units, which, well, in the area of work on and in the area of recruitment , still managed to stop our offensive and er, this does not mean that nothing will happen, because it is necessary to understand that they, the russians, are acting at the limit of their capabilities. But at the same time, you know, this war can be anything , including a possible delay, because for the russians, it will actually be exit to tokmak and the advance around tokmak will mean the collapse of the Southern Front. Thats why they are doing everything. Everything is possible in order to, at any cost, we love to use sacrifices to delay the advance of our village defenses in this direction. Therefore, estonian intelligence well, i would say so has the right to you know such certain conclusions, giving such a wide range of possible options for the development of events, but then they do not take new eyes from the sky. I do not know whether they are fresh or they have already been used a little once. They take from the east and transfer to the south, as if there is a problem to them in the east, if they transfer from the south to the east, then there will be a problem again near tokmak, that is , how much are they able to play chess on these chessboards from there , in any case, they weaken some front they are weakening whether i am right or not p sergey you are absolutely right and that is why we see such rather limited actions today despite the fact that there was a statement that the russians are preparing a powerful fist to strike in the kupyansk region today we uh we observe only separate elements of hostilities there in the area of sinkivka, but without any significant advance of the russians , that is, they are forced to transfer units and military units precisely from the kupyan direction in order to strengthen their Southern Front at any cost, there is another side of the coin, because there are certain the limitations of logistics plus the shoulder under ee delivery of these units, it is quite large, so they do not always have time to react to all this and but we have what we have , the enemy still tries to jump our units strikes artillery shelling, if you take our report, our messages count for more than a hundred a day, which suggests that there they are working with shells, despite the fact that they experience certain problems, this is the supply of ammunition precisely in the southern direction, look, but about the shells , the beautiful democratic peoples republic of korea seems to have promised no one does not know some millions of projectiles, and then the experts began to say that let them give more because they take to explode directly in the barrels or on the road or somewhere or on the bases and so on as far as you can believe the experts and i say that these are very old shells and they can explode at any moment and this will lead to destruction on russian territory, well, this is a bit of an exaggeration, i can just give an example that i have encountered since the 14th year in the east of ukraine, when both sides of the conflict, lets put it this way, used projectiles that had been lying in warehouses since soviet times, that is, projectiles that are 304050 years old. I personally kept a mine in one of the warehouses that was released in 1947. So here it is the rejection rate then was up to 40 . That is, out of a dozen shells that were fired, four simply did not explode and there was no need for them to explode, they did not explode, they did not work , they got stuck in the ground, and well, i remember the Psychiatric Hospital in the slavyansk district. We were there, to put it mildly, we tried not to approach about uh, plus logistics, calculate so that on average, well, im sorry, as a railway engineer, i can say uh, on average, the pace of transportation is about 300 km per day , lets calculate the distance that is, that is, the delivery of these outfits will take at least 34, maybe 5 weeks to bring them to the battlefield eh, the third option, eh, the quality of these projectiles, eh , which are really outdated, and here we are talking not only about the quality of the explosive, but the possibility of triggering, where about the quality the metal from which they are made, that is, even passing through the barrel to a certain extent. Not much, but well, on a large scale, it can lead to premature wear of the bore of the barrel, and so on and the like. Well, and the fourth option. Well, i have great doubts about the millions of shells that can be transported and to deliver to the Russian Federation, well, once again, it turns out that these are the logistics restrictions that exist in the direction of north korea and the Russian Federation, well, the port has the possibility of loading and unloading in vladivostok , which is already called haifen, almost like a chinese port, there are many very questions and therefore it is impossible to say that these projectiles categorically change the situation on the front line. Although they can help the enemy. Well, what about the fact that they will explode . Make the projectile explode well, it takes a lot of effort. Thank you. Thank you , serhiy , a slave military expert, a participant in peacekeeping missions, and ivanna is also in touch with us now. We will see and already see good evening good health mrs. Ivanna lets start with ursula forte lines report about the situation in the country, what is it called news in the union well, because it is very important, there was a lot of report about her what did the observers say and noticed that there was no such emphasis on ukraine that was made last year this year. In fact , there were no such harsh statements regarding aid to ukraine. Ukraine was considered simply as one of those countries that can become part of politics expansion of the European Union as far as can be said that already it is not