Now there is mounting evidence that after entering the saudi consulate in istanbul turkey he was rendered unconscious and then dismembered by a special team sent from riyadh that included a number of bin solomons personal bodyguards u. S. President trump says it is too early to draw any conclusions but the white house has requested turkey delivered the audio and video it says it has on the last moments of his show shes life. Who should she disappeared death by decree thats our topic today were focusing on that with rick no act hes a Foreign Affairs reporter for the Washington Post for which a crucial she also worked as a commentator recovers europe and International Security issues and says politically motivated kidnappings or killings in the key to a new level of Foreign Policy assertiveness especially as the west likes leadership in defending human rights. And bill on is an editor for the german daily newspaper the belt here his fields of interest are turkey in the middle east and he says in a polarized world particularly journalists become targets because they act in between Political Forces and the heart is a freelance journalist covering the mideast politics were you in for she says were witnessing a new era of right. Welcome to all of you great to have you here on quadriga lets start off with the evidence were depending on turkey for the evidence if we could start with you what do you think is that a dependable source for us to be relying on absolutely not its not a dependable source because we know that turkey has general interests and not turkey is on a strategic level full of saudi arabia turkey itself has a very bad record in treating journalist a correspondent of my own newspaper give as has been imprisoned in turkey for more than a year and we also know that the kind of evidence that journalists are being provided with is very bad all those tapes all those videos that the turks are leaking not officially releasing they never give away the raw material they only give dr tapes so we know what they want us to believe but we dont know what really happened ok we dont know what really happened knowledge of what do you think is. Were talking about one newspaper from turkey in particular very close to the government close intelligence sources do you think we can count on them as a source for us to to be moving forward with this case i think at this recent question. The software shouldnt take all information for granted one of the basics of journalistic work is to have it up at six for the information in this case i know its very difficult but until now we dont have any official investigation on the official statement from the took from the saudis nor about this joint in this. That they announced they wanted to start it seems they wanted to and then there is this question that so in this context i should say we should be cautious about all details that are leaked because also that he thought that from day one and it was kind of systematically a systematic leak wasnt exact and we were talking about the periodical the newspaper sabaoth very close to the intelligence agencies they have been piecemeal leaking out this information that it comes from hollywood horror film doesnt it somewhere between stephen king and the spider film were talking about bones saw what do you make of all this what im seeing is that this kind of choreography of the details as actually catering very well for tour christer Strategic Interests because by revealing new gruesome details that get ever more gruesome day by day they have created an media interest in the west and the western public that has pushed western governments including the one of the United States towards turkey and if you look at american turkish relations before the start of this affair and now you will see that turkey has become so that america has become so much more friendly to the turks and i think thats one of the results of a very very shrewd Public Diplomacy using the media. From the Washington Post she wrote for the periodical you work for his last column was delivered shortly after he entered the embassy can you tell us something about that sure it was actually delivered to the Washington Post a day after his disappeared through his translator and assistant it was published it wasnt published for about two weeks because we hoped that he would repeat and has now been published in todays edition it lays out. The state of the freedom of the press in the middle east very dire state and and his hopes. For instance via the creation of a of an independent transnational News Organization in the region that. Speaks to critics and independent voices youve just returned from saudi arabia youve been there for twenty sixteen twenty seven hundred twenty team have you seen a change has the press there have journalists come under more pressure over the years that youve been in saudi arabia reporting what i can say from my experience is that there was a change between two thousand and sixteen two thousand and six in two thousand and seventeen as an intern and as a foreign journalist icon icon three the. Express anything about local journalists but as a foreign journalist and the team that was working with me and then later. It was clear that in two thousand and seventeen the whole process was much faster much easier and the accessibility we had and the freedom to move on the street was huge and then the fall into the sixteen we were really like as if shadowed the whole time we knew that their. People from the minister were with us and they inform us about it but we were really we have to be cautious with whom we talk and when and the other visits where much easier there was a huge cooperation from the Saudi Ministry of information for what so i think this was also because they were interested to reflect another image of the closed place or of this ghost country thats what i like to discuss how do we explain this dichotomy that on the one hand weve seen the saudi opening liberalizing women allowed to drive you reported on that for example and at the same time this crackdown and this apparent murder of a regime critic. Well you could only give an exact reply to that if you knew whats really behind this affair and we dont but what im. Seeing in general and how it links to this special situation is that this conscientious leadership is really honestly trying to open up the country but the people who are doing this are very on used to this kind of situation they dont know how to handle this and at least in some instances things go wrong so this version which we heard the day before yesterday from c. N. N. Which said that there would be an announcement of a saudi narrative that more or less said that something went wrong and the treatment of that originally hadnt been planned to be assassinated i think thats a version i wouldnt totally you rule out because as i said the people involved are new to this job even if theyre old and older than the crown prince so age is not the they are new to this job of opening up and being more liberal in their approaches to include you information for example and conducting a transparent Foreign Policy ok rick what do you think what do you think the narrative is coming out of saudi arabia or are we missing one right now well i mean the narrative thats been apparently provided to President Trump is that those were rogue it might have been broken. Stakeholders who. Who went there without the approval of the saudi leadership thats at least a narrative that is being perpetuated and circulated in in washington and that is taken over by the trump government well talk about that exactly and that brings us to the question them to what extent is the lack of American Leadership and this kind of power vacuum when it comes to human rights when it comes to human rights criticism or supporters supporting canada when canada. Arabia back in in the summer to what extent is this in bolden ng this behavior of the saudi regime and to what extent could it have emboldened other Countries Worldwide emboldening the saudi regime could this have been possible without the personal orders of muhammad bin solomon. Again here we are in speculation nobody can be assured of this i mean the investigations of the Washington Post. Required at least his knowledge i assume yes because because still even if we have these reforms in the country its important i think from my perspective to differentiate between social economy one side and put it to go to farms the country was in need. For all reforms and then is interested in so short of forms and economy because of it kind of. To create a new post oil era in the country and it was time that women become a part of the social system and the working system and of the labor system but still its a. Huge political question. Lets say. Its a monarchy its a marquee. And i want to jump in here is a monarchy that depends on the religious leadership can you have a reform of this radical conservative form of islam. As you attempt to move this is id forward is what im capable of reform thats the experiment we are just so you know i mean what they are trying is to create a society that. Has a conservative core but thats still open for business with the rest of the world and i think we have been seen in other muslim countries. Starting on that path and actually i would say the first results are encouraging and at least in the last years we have seen as vocal resistance from conservatives. As some people had expected when those reforms started. The fact that its monarchy also plays into this year because the question of if this is laying. On so. Depends on those contradictions you have with in the house of sorrow there are different camps in this family and those often so some top family members are arrested they were imprisoned and they apparently there there were accounts of torture as well within the saudi family which is of course a huge family and some of those people who have been deposed in the purge are actually focal to the interior Security Apparatus so i would think that the idea that there could be a different camp opposing muhammad and so on within the security operators thats a possibility i wouldnt totally rule loved richard or rick when you consider that based on the information were using were moving forward with right now that members of bins almost personal bodyguards were among the special team that went to istanbul a forensic scientist also known to bin zalman with that in mind doesnt weaken the argument were hearing not only from riyadh but from washington that includes plausible deniability this may or may not have happened. Sure its going to be very tough for the Trump Administration to continue to back. To the crown prince of those details are confirmed but the question is are they ever going to be confirmed and by who are they going to be confirmed what are the saudis going to argue and and do they have any they havent been saying that much yet do they have anything else taken they can counter those those terms arguments or ways they can counter those turkish arguments so i think that the americans or the trumpet ministration is hoping that it will be able to continue to back the saudis and there have been signs that they are doing that at the moment i mean the pompeo visit. The same day one hundred Million Dollars were transferred to the u. S. That had been promised back in the summer i mean there are signs that the americans are trying to move on and overcome this crisis regardless perhaps of what will emerge later on in this investigation into the question as to what extent you can call it an investigation of there is so little theres a Little Details coming out in terms of what is yeah so when its so hard to decide which which side youre going to believe and evidence you know might have been destroyed when cleaning crews are coming in now was really there could be some d. N. A. In that cleaning crew material that we had we cant forget that we need to talk a little bit more about the the man his sources and ties penetrated deep within the saudi power structure both he. And but he was also in contact rather with individuals and organizations fiercely opposed to the powerful sow dynasty and bent on ending its decades long rule lets look more at construction. Comes from one of saudi arabias wealthiest families hes well connected with the saudi royal family whom hes often provoked with editorials an article is critical of the government. During the nine hundred ninety s. He had contact with osama bin ladin he interviewed him before and even after bin ladin became head of al qaida like bin ladin came from one of saudi arabias most influential families as a student chief sympathized with the Muslim Brotherhood which was suppressed by the saudi Royal Highness but he never saw himself in opposition to the monarchy even supported its efforts of reform. Could his knowledge about corruption or old connections with extremists have made him a target for a hit squad. From the Washington Post what made the shock she so dangerous she was on the course a very prominent saudi journalist but he also after his selfimposed exile he continued writing for the Washington Post and the Washington Post is published in the capital of the probably most important ally the saudis have when it comes to military support its economy and so on so he was embarrassing the saudi elite the saudi leadership in the capital of one of the countries they came over most about in the world and i think that made him. Especially dangerous to the saudis its not just the sense is twenty fourteen at least three other saudi critics have disappeared why is this case getting so much attention. I think that. It became important not only because he was a journalist for the Washington Post but because of his history he is really one of these men who were very close in the last few years we can say in the last two decades at least if not more very close to the leadership and he was very close to time and others of war i mean even very close to the Saudi Security services so i think that thats why hes hes really important or he came to this. Very special because hes much more prominent and because. This situation around that he was in washington and went to. I mean people what was going on in the other two cases we knew about it after it happened there was no follow up and there were no news thats one is leaving from one place to another and i think the whole investigations and even the leaks that came or the leaks that came from the authorities give it a push sites we have to be aware that on one side saudi arabia owns nearly all Important Media outlets in the arab world. And other newspapers and. Which is and we cant forget the lobbying. They have in washington and european capitals as well i just hope the counterpart is the that. Which is about to lose its position its media position in the arab world was really a very Important Media. Event that they were really reporting every ten minutes of breaking news and so all of this made you know this. Is this it is this is that the media prominence and the contacts inside the saudi family that made him so. Much a threat. Its posed both of those. Another factor that might be relevant apart from from those two factors is that he seems to have had sympathy is for the Muslim Brotherhood which the saudis have designated a regional full a regional enemy and they expect everybody to be on their side and that but i suppose even more dangerous than that is really his his knowledge off whats going on inside the royal family having been so close to two of them in far as all the long time intelligence chief of saudi arabia who stepped down just days before nine eleven he must have known a lot of whats going on inside the white house hold a possible scapegoat as well. Possible but on the other hand if they had wanted to set an example with his treatment than the saudis would have done it differently they would have brought him to saudi arabia they could have done a show trial they could have given all this their all in style of drama their own suspense and thats not what happened because i think theres an import went wrong at somewhere i went wrong and exactly how the trumpet ministrations going to react to this case is still clear the president has firmly back the saudi family and has pointed to a huge arms deal as an example of the countrys close ties. Well there are many other things we could do but when we take away one hundred ten billion dollars of purchases from our country that hurts our workers that are jar factory that hurts for all of our companies here youre talking about five hundred thousand jobs so we do that were really hurting our country a lot for there were hurting saudi arabia. So his one hundred ten billion dollars the price of looking the other way and the sacrificing the values that america says it stands for. Its a good question i think we will see in the coming days when the saudis finally put out their all narrative how america behaves to that at the moment we are seeing donald trump i think caring first and foremost for his own interests that includes his election interests in the terms on november sixth and not for American Values rick this place is the west not only United States a real predicament can the United States can the west condemn in the sanction powerful states like russia like china and ignore whats happening or apparently has happened at the direction of the saud family. Well of course the u. S. Leadership has a credibility issue and it has has had a credibility issue before that credibility issue has become a lot bigger and you know it does appear is of the trumpet ministration is trying to move on that would send i think a catastrophic signal if there wasnt any sort of a sanction if the saudis were to be found responsible because this has been on front pages for weeks now i dont remember another issue International Issue that was on the front pages for such a long time listen bodies a lot for a lot of people and i think it would also send a signal not only to the saudis but to also other countries that they can if you have enough business interests with the americans and if you know you can make a credible argument that youre important enough that you can essentially do anything ok important enough are the saudis in the drivers seat right now they control a lot of oil they could potentially damage the u. S. Economy by jacking up the price of oil coming from their wells. Yeah but. The price of oil is Little America to saudi arabia we have a provider and they have technicians in the market their rounds not a provider for the United States right now iran is not very problematic as well the interview high. On october second i think on october first it was a discussion and it was a discussion of profile of the american i have company so they are in the drivers seat but we should also forget that saudi is interested to diversity economy so they are also on the other side that they need europe and they need to get away from this orderly or all economy so its relation is much more complex that that sitting in the drivers seat this is a how i see it because they are interested. In their economy and thats why we have this summit i think after tomorrow or no not in the desert where everyone is leaving. As we go but it isnt just about everyone. Did the United States cross the line when it started arresting and incarcerating alleged islamists in guantanamo in terms of being able to press the case for human rights right now in saudi arabia for example. I actually dont think so i actually think that if anything was true about the connection between kuantan among whats happening now i think it does actually in a way also raise the pressure on arab governments to treat dissidents farah because human rights in that way has also become a topic in the arab world and arab societies and i think that there is more discourse there i think the topic on hante to decide on a global affair ok its a global. Approach and. We have in fact to question why its become a global effort in the last few years we can take russia u. K. We cant pick. And. Go i think thats why we are in the new phase. Of korea because five years ago. So much were doing in this to get investigative reports or doing some critical reporting as today so maybe this is related to the Global Situation of. Individual rights and human rights and going through the process of. If it was europe or the states i mean there is a change in the. World was always difficult and its becoming easier after the break. Thank you very much for being with us today rick. Thanks much to all of you for a great thank you for joining us here. Until next time im brian thomas thanks for being with us. The be. The be. The be. The be. The be. Od. The body. We call florida a football is a simple game football a simple game. Not really coming to major is a ball for ninety minutes. Mr mccollum lets talk about. The lot of it. Its difficult to understand if we give you the answers every easter. Come on live i just wish double wave. More. Basically every news lie from her left us and bring in our correspondent ophelia harms of rudys and joins us from Rio De Janeiro we are here to find out what happened to that the u. S. Son of the n. T. S. B. Head of the Environment Team with me if he does because one that summed up its a mandatory and we do have some other breaking news thats coming into us now its all about the prospective closer up w. Thank you for joining us. It was a human a cataclysm. The first global disaster of the twentieth century. More to end all wars cost millions of lives. World war one. Marks the hundredth anniversary of its end. What is humankind learned from the great war. As it learned anything at all. Is real peace and possibility. One team a team not forgotten d. W. Is november focus. Frank food and. International gateway to the best connection self and road and rail. Located in the heart of europe you are connected to the whole world. Experience outstanding shopping and dining offers and try our services. Be our guest at Frankfurt Airport city managed by from. A. Unique. Lead. Player. Material. This is d w news live from berlin a powerful Afghan Police commander is killed in a Taliban Attack shortly before polls are due to open in afghanistans parliamentary elections and its seen as a significant victory for the taliban and a major blow to the afghan and u. S. Counterinsurgency campaign but the taliban claim their real target was actually a top u. S. Commander. Also coming up the Cameroonian Army stands accused of shooting in the speaking separatists and leaving their bodies to broad