Test test test test captioning performed by vitac how did henry clay enhance the powers of the speaker . The force of his personality. No one wanted to debate him, certainly he had the force to win the argument. I think that alone had great influence in power. I dont know if in other speaker would be comparative. He understood as the power of committee assignments. The committee is basically he understood that the speaker had the power to put the people he wanted ton the committees and want something important he was known to be a fair man, the speaker and that was very important. Both sides of the aisle respected him and respected his opinions. Never overwritten in his rulings and was fair in the makeup of the companies, when he knew there was a certain issue coming up, you can see a slight inclination that he wanted the issue to go a certain way. He understood early and changed the rules with his backing and gave the speaker more power and cut off debate to limit debate and allowed him to be a much more important powerful figure than anything before. His force of his will that made it as important as anything else. Next telephone call is from raymond in kalamazoo, michigan. Hi, raymond. Were going to move on. Lets take a call from lonnie watching in chevy chase, maryland. Caller good evening. Lincoln once referred to clay as his ideal of a statesman. I believed the two men had never met recently i came across a web page which purported to show a book that had been indescribed from clay to lincoln. Could the Panel Comment on this . Did clay and lincoln ever meet . Louisville did he meet him . We dont know basically. There was one person who wrote a memoir about the turn of the century that that person had seen the two in lexington. Abraham Lincoln Mary Todd Lincoln from lexington, they were closely aligned with the clays. Her family knew the clays and lincoln came to kentucky several times in connection with the states that followed it and heard henry clay speak. Whether they met is unknown. Cant you imagine what a great time it would have been had they you have to think they tried to meet if nothing else. Had lincoln come to ash land and two would sit in a parlor and clay would Say Something and mr. Lincoln would say, that reminds me of a story and henry clay would say that reminds me of a story and they would go back and forth. Lincoln never said he met clay but its very possible he would have said that. He did say that clay was his idea of a statesman. When he went to 1860 and getting ready to write his and ug ral, four things to write the inaugural with and one of those four items was henry clays speech in 1850s, clays effect on Abraham Lincoln was important during the Lincoln Douglas debates. He said his views of henry clay are the views of Abraham Lincoln as well. Were going to take a call and must spend time talking about the 1844 election. So lets listen to a question from charles in whittier, california. Caller hello. My question is this, im a kentucky yan born and raised in kentucky in the home of rosemary clooney. And i understand from the panel, your two guests, that henry clay is considered the favorite son of kentucky. Although he and lincoln were members of the wig party, i dont understand how he could be the favorite son and not Abraham Lincoln who when he met just tow, youre the little lady that started this brave war and she is never mentioned, nor is uncle tom, the greatest christian in american literature, neither are mentioned either as being great in their time. And yet on the times in which they lived and even today, their influence is greatly felt, especially by many africanamericans who are historically informed. That callers comments, can you respond please . Abraham lincoln certainly kentucky he may have started off as being a friend of kentucky but certainly when the emancipation pro clamation is issued, he becomes a much hated figure here in kentucky. So henry clay who considered himself a westerner but many southerners would have would choose him over Abraham Lincoln, whos certainly considered a trader to the kentucky cause. You mentioned harriet beacher stow, we read and study her but lincoln is much more popular in the north and new england than he ever becomes at the south. Lincoln in 1860 running on the northern ticket received i think five votes in his wifes home county, even his inlaws didnt vote for him, he received like 1,000 votes in the state of kentucky. To vote for lincoln in 1860 for kentuckyians like voting for communists in 1950s, a red republican and didnt have any support here. And kentucky at the beginning of the Worldwide Union ends slavery and when he decides by the middle of the war going to be a war against slavery finally, that turns many kentuckyians against the administration and almost pro confederate by the end of the war. Lincoln and his party are on the outs in kentucky for a long period of time. Its only in the 20th century that kentucky starts to reclaim Abraham Lincoln with the billing of a memorial to his birth place and Lincoln Commission created in the 21st century, kentucky is reclaimed lincoln belatedly but he was on the wrong side for most kentuckyians after the war. How far from where we were physically is the lincoln birth place . Its probably an hour and 15 minute drive straight down the interstate. How long would it have taken to cross . It took henry clay to go from lexington to frankfurt, all day in the mud and mir of those days and thats why he was so much in favor of better canals and roads through federal government aid. During this discussion of lincoln, we had a brief picture of an artifact that you have here in the collection which has an inscription to Abraham Lincoln. This book is actually called the life and speeches of henry clay. And theres an enxripgs that says two Abraham Lincoln with regard to friendship, ashland h clay, 1847. We believe this book was given to Abraham Lincoln from clay as sort of a gift to lincoln in exchange for what we believe lincoln would have given a condolence gift to clay after his son was killed in the mexicanamerican war. But we dont know those were delivered personally . We dont. We dont know if they ever met. Theres no documentation to say that they have. But we know at least that henry clay did know Abraham Lincoln and there must have been some type on this artifact. The first of our 14 contenders in our look at american history, lets take our next telephone call from louisville, this is rob watching us nearby. Hi, rob. Caller its actually robin. Im sorry. Hello robin. Welcome to the conversation. Caller i have three questions and ill go really fast and get out of your way and let your guests answer. Your guest mentioned clays contradictions and clays apparent connection to abolitionists, whether he changed his mind or merely political posturing in their opinions or a lie . The second question is another caller mentioned the two cassius clays, im kecurious its known whether henry clay or any of his household members or immediate family members had any known link descendants like jefferson. Politicians also have political or aris to cratic lineage, if its known if any other politicians carry the lineage have you been here to the house . We lost her. She lives so close by. Wondering if she had been here. Abolitionists and whether or not the position changed or posturing. I think it would be wrong to call henry clay an abolitionist. He was for the idea of emancipation. And no, he never changed his position on that. As we discussed earlier, especially in the election of 1840, it hurts him. The fact that he doesnt he tries to waffle and straddle the fence but no, he never backs away from his idea of emancipation. Cassius clay clay speaks out first time publicly in kentucky against slavery and in a letter to the local paper. And 50 years later when he does the same thing again, when kentucky is trying to adopt a new constitution and hoping to get slavely abolished and it doesnt happen. He takes the same stance, pretty consistent, thing is over that 50 years, the world had changed around him. His views were still the same. Her question on cassius clays . I know of no with the question about whether or not there are africanamericans no, im not aware of that. Whether or not he had any descendants who were africanamericans there were at least one story that appeared Something Like 40 years after henry clays death that a woman said that she had been a mistress of henry clay but i have found nothing to substan substantiate that story. Theres a list of you can pretty much have compiled a list of the clays slaves and i didnt see her name there anywhere. I dont think that happened. Cassius clay probably not either as far as i know. He had an illegitimate offspring but it was in russia and offsprof offspring showed up in the cassius clay home here in kentucky. The shock of that caused his wife to divorce henry cassius clay. Remember her exact question about the lineage. I think she said if anybody politicians have the same connection any connection to clay as far as being related to clay. Im not sure that i know of anybody else. There is no Family Dynasty in politics. I dont think so. Were going to run out of time here. 1844 election against james polk. This time he was successful in securing the wig nomination, everything i read about it said it was one of the dirtiest campaigns conducted. What were the issues or was it personal politics or both . Clay goes in as a favorite on this for a change. And james polk is the first dark horse candidate hoping to be Vice President and ends up being the president ial nominee of the democrats. The democrats are scrambling from behind. Clay had been organizing campaign for two years, Campaign Biographies every year and sheet music with his pictures and names and all kinds of ribbons and buttons and medals that you can do. The democrats basically coming from behind have to attack and they attack clay pretty heavily on all issues, 1844 election is a perfect storm of bad things happening to henry clay. He writes too many letters and says too many things. Causes him to look like hes waffling on the issue which is a big issue at the time. All of the issues of drinking and gambling comes back against him and used against clay. And i think its more of the combination of things that defeat clay, the standard view is that others in the north impose that because they think it it will bring war with mexico. And opposes an exation and going against the National Mood. I dont think that defeats him because he wins votes because of his stand on that and loses votes. Its more theres a whole slew of issues and then the issues of fraud and bad luck which plague clay in every election as well. Do you hear about this being an early example of the politics of personal destruction. Was this on both sides . Was henry clay a practitioner of those types of politics . I think he was his own worst enemy. He certainly trusted the wrong people in the 1844 campaign. He doesnt listen to advisers and still a problem for him in 1844. He believes his own press, that he is the favorite and he doesnt see the challenger seriously and not really campaigning. So yeah, he shoots himself in the foot a couple of times. Now, he opposed texas an nexation predicting it would lead to war with mexico and his son goes to fight in the war and what happens . His son is killed in the war. His son lost a wife a few years before and vedepressed and almo like he was going to fight to forget as much as anything else and wounded and tells his men to leave him and retreat and they do and hes killed. The parts of that are sent back to clay from killing of his son. It hits him very hard and clay makes an antiwar speech, says i support the troops but i oppose the war. And its a whole speech that many people have considered courageous at the time because it was going against a lot of National Mood in the south which was one of his constituent areas. And lets take another call. This is molly, bridgeton new jersey. Caller hello. I was wondering if your panelists could talk a little bit about the relationship between John Quincy Adams and henry clay. Holly, clay and adams were a very mismatched couple. Adams is the new england pure tan background, if you read his diary, critical of everybody, including himself. I think he can only be happy in some ways talking to himself and even then not happy. Hes critical. Hes a man of great talent and speaks many Foreign Languages and well versed to the presidency, son of a president. And theres a great passage of his diaries where adams is getting up at 4 00 in the morning and henry clay is coming in from a night of card playing. Adams says this is the debauchry of clay. He can turn it around and say its the other way around. This is John Quincy Adams. Henry clay is a different kind of person. And they constantly tweaked each other and talked to each other and didnt like each other in a lot of ways but respected each other. When clay makes John Quincy Adams president of the United States in 1825, everybody expected they would fight and break away from each other but clay is a very loyal secretary of state and adams gains more respect for clay and clay gains more respect for adams. They may not ever have been friends but they are respectful of rest of their lives. Were reaching back in the early parts of henry clays career. This is a good time to look at one of the most prized possessions, the washington gb gob let. We have the washington goblet here. And this was the item of greatest patriotic inspiration in henry clays home. You can see that its tripped or broken and this is how henry clay received it. And he wrote about how he received this from an elderly lady as a gift and it belonged to George Washington through most of the revolutionary war and used this like an artifact in his house and to connect us to our early nation hood and as an object to venerate George Washington. He felt washington as many throughout the country did was a great inspiration to our country and hoped to inspire patriotism in people who visited here at ash land. Were quickly running out of time here. Since we have you, let me ask you about henry clay and his wife and how often they lived here together. He had such a long political career requiring him to be in washington so frequently. Did his family move to washington with them or did they remain behind most of the time . His family did go with henry clay to washington early on. But around the 1830s was really the last time she would go with henry clay to washington. La kreesh shah had plenty on the farm to keep her busy. There were children and grandchildren here to occupy her time. She never enjoyed the limelight and not heavily into fashion and attention. She did enjoy the solace that ashland provided for. In the later part of his life, i believe he was gone as much as he was home. And some have surmised that henry clay was addicted to travel, which is one thing we probably all like to do more of but henry was gone quite frequently to campaign. He was gone working in washington and on trips for instance to see his daughter in new orleans. Next call is from kentucky. Town of pa ducah reporter caller my last name is gerald watt rinz, henry clay was a seventh cousin. So im real proud of henry clay in that connection but my question is, the three times he won the nomination, it seems like the timing was really not good for his candidacy. They seemed doomed. Do you believe there was a president ial election nearing his time of prominence that would have been better timing that he could have won the presidency . I think he could have won in 1840 pretty reasonably. In 1948, Zachary Taylor is going to be the weak nominee and henry clayed opposed any general and clay opposed taylor because he had done nothing other than be a general and never voted before he ran for president. So clay very rereluck tantly tries to get the nomination and fails and clay got that nomination i think he would have won too. The democrats were divided that year. Clay was quoted by someone as saying that the nearest he could get the nomination his friends basically desserting him because one of the backers ever Zachary Taylor and clay saw that as a betrayal of all things hes done. Since we fast forwarded to 1848, receiplets move ahead to the last big effort on public polyand the compromise. What was that compromise about and what was happening in this country . 1850, this decision about the expansion of how slave states, whether they come in as free or slave holding and the idea of strengthening fugitive slave law, of course, becomes one of the breaking points. The idea of california, whether or not the decision ends up being california can make its own decision about whether or not slaves can be held in the state. Missouri comes in new mexico and arizona, exactly. Again, we are now truly into the manifest destiny where United States reaches from coast to coast. And for africanamericans, the strengthening of the fugitive slave law becomes a major issue in american politics, leading up to the civil war. We only have about four minutes left. On the compromise of 1850, its so important, henry clay was not successful. He was reaching the end of his strength and health. How did it turn out . It says something about henry clay, he comes back to the senate after his defeat and he had been at home leading this quiet place of ashland, not going to run for president anymore, comes out of retirement to hope in essence save the country in his mind one more time with the compromise. And in missouri he had broken the little pieces up and got it passed one by one. In 1850, he listens to somebody and they put it together in an omnibus bill. He goes off to rhode island and it does pass piecemeal under steve ven douglas. Clay was roundly supported on this, that this would bring peace in his lifetime and he did because he dies two years later. Within a decade the civil war begins over the fugitive slave law part of the compromise. Henry clays dies in 1852 buried where . In lexington. We have video of his grave site and his funeral was quite an event, 1,000 mile train corps taj. Trusted servant charles is still at his side to the very end with the funeral. Hes viewed people come from all over the trains are coming in and thousands of people in lexington for the funeral. So its national news. I think the thing about that monument, theres monuments to clay and i think hes got more images in the capital Nations Capital than any other individual, atlantic magazine and most influential americans of all time. I think its the fact that henry clay kept a divided nation together and nation is still one nation, united, still a working democracy. And its still trying very hard to live up to the spirit of henry clay. We have time for a quick call from bowling green, kentucky. Caller my name is dr. Ann kol jay. Why do you suppose henry clay was not interested in a womans perspective on slavery . The reason i ask that question, european Victorian Woman had traveled to america to kentucky in 1834 1835 and she visited im going to interrupt you. We understand the history and have very little time. She is sent by britain for thats enough for clay not to like her. I would certainly say just the southern principles about womens place he loved women, had women been able to vote, henry clay would have been president many times. By all estimates, women of america liked henry clay despite these rumors about him and everything else, everybody uniformly says women liked henry clay, would have voted for him. Mart mart martineau didnt like the clay children but liked henry clay when she got here. That was part of the america of his time too. The contradictions and controversy around henry clay. We heard the views why henry clay was important for the country. Would you close with yours . He was important because he polarized and made america make a decision on slavery. The 1850 compromise which did pass africanamericans fled to canada, it increased the Public Awareness of slavery in america so that was his major contribution, i think. We just skimmed the surface of a 49year political career for henry clay, our first of 14 contendersmen who didnt achieve their quest for the presidency but changed american history. Im going to say thanks to our gues guests for helping us better understand henry clays life. Also have a couple other quick thank yous, Henry Clay Memorial Foundation for preserving ashland and sharing it with us tonight. Debra roer core, the executive director and eric brooks the cureator outstanding help to our crew and their colleagues both volunteers and staff here and personal thank you to cspans former board chairman, bobmyron who traveled to kentucky to be with us. History buffs that they are as we kick off the first of our contender series. Thanks for being with us as we learn more tonight about the life of henry clay. We are at ashland, the henry clay estate in
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