Issues like labor trafficking and hhs and how they allowed kids to get into the hands of traffickers. Government oversight there. Next month we will be combatting looking at the ways to combat isis propaganda and locking at our government response to that for those who follow what we do, that will be something well be looking at next week. Certainly a topical issue and one that everybody is concerned about is how do you stop this isis propaganda from taking more and more of our impressionable young people and radicalizing them. Well look at the opiate abuse issue. And some specific issues we think the subcommittee can provide some additional insights on. We have done tough, significant, important oversight and will continue to. And again, i appreciate the witnesses coming here today and the fact that this process, not just the hearing today, but the investigation has improved some of your individual practices as it relates to the people that we represent. I want to thank senator mccaskill for her work. This is not her first time dealing with this issue. Im not on the commerce committee, but shes done a lot of work on this issue and focusing on consumers there. As we move forward, were going to continue to look at the industry and look at this issue of Consumer Choice and k competiti competition. Thats ultimately the answer to give people a range of choices. We talked about the risk competition, but theres also concerns about having more competition. I think innovation is going to be allowed to flourish and new products will come to market. So well be looking at some of those barriers to that. And well also be looking at other issues that might have come up today. Ill have some additional questions for the record. I appreciate the prompt responses you have given us to previous questions and specifically to the companies here today. I thank you for your willingness to cooperate with us in this investigation. Again, what i think has been a positive hearing to have an honest hearing of some of the concerns on the consumer side. The hearing will remain open for 15 days for additional comments o or questions by any of the members. And with that, this hearing is adjourned. Well go live to president Obama Holding a press briefing on the Supreme Court decision on immigration. Now are going to have to ask themselves and are going to have to answer in november. These are the issues that are going to be debated by candidates across the country, both congressional candidates as well as the president ial candidates. And in november, americans are going to have to make a decision about what we care about and who we are. I promise you this, though. Sooner or later, Immigration Reform will get done. Congress is not going to be able to ignore america forever. Its not a matter of if. Its a matter of when. And i can say that with confidence because we have seen our history. We get these spasms of politics on immigration and fear mo mongering and then our traditions and our history and our better impulse ls kick in. Thats how we all ended up here. Because i guarantee at some point, every one of us has somebody in our background who people didnt want coming here. And yet here we are. And thats whats going to happen this time. The question is do we do it in a smart, rational, sensible way or we just keep on kicking the can down the road. I believe this country dezerser an immigration policy that reflects the goodness of the American People and i think were going to get that. Hopefully weefr going to get that in november. Ill take two questions. Go ahead. Realistically what is the risk of deportation for these 4 Million People . You say cant deport 1 million. Theres a chunk of time here. Let me just be very clear. What was unaffected by todays ruling or lack of a ruling is the enforcement of priorities we have put in place. Our enforcement priorities that have been laid out by secretary johnson at the department of Homeland Security are pretty clear. We prioritize criminals. We prioritize gang bangers. We prioritize folks who have just come in. What we dont do is to prioritize people who have been here a long time who are otherwise lawabiding, who have roots and connections in their communities. So those enforcement priorities will continue. The work we have done with the dream act kids. These policies remain in place. So what this has prevented us from doing is expanding the scope of what we have done with the dream act kids. Keep in mind, even that was just a temporary measure. All it was doing was basically saying to these kids, you can have confidence that you are not going to be deported, but it does not resolve your ultimate status. That requires congressional action. So although im disappointed by the lack of decision today by the Supreme Court, a deadlock, this does not substantially change the status quo and it doesnt negate what has always been the case chrks is if were really going to solve this problem effectively, weve got to have Congress Pass a law. I have pushed to the limits of my executive authority. We now have to have congress act. And hopefully were going to have a vigorous debate during this election. This is how democracy is supposed to work. There will be a determination as to which direction we go in. As i said, over the longterm, im very confident about the direction this country will go in because we have seen this in the past. If we hadnt seen it in the past, america would look very different than it does today. But whether were going to get this done now, soon, so that this does not continue to be this divisive force in our politics and we can get down to the business of all pulling together to create jobs and educate our kids and protect ourselves from external threats and do the things that we need to do to ensure a Better Future for the next generation, thats going to be determined in part by how voters turn out and who they vote for in november. One more question. Going forward questions. Number one, is this going are you going to be anything more at all for immigrants Going Forward in terms of executive action before the election, the next president . And number two, do you in any way take this as some republicans have presented this as a slap at your use of executive authority . And will this circumscribe how a aggressively or forcefully you use executive authority in the remainder of your time in office . Okay. On the specifics of immigration, i dont anticipate that there are additional executive actions that we can take. We can implement what we have already put in place that is not affect affected by this decision. But we have to follow now what has been ruled on in the fifth circuit because the Supreme Court could not resolve the issue. And were going to have to abide by that ruling until an election and a confirmation of a ninth justice of the Supreme Court so they can break this tie. Because we have always said that we are going to do what we can lawfully through executive action, but we cant go beyond that. And we have buted up as far as we can on this particular topic. It does not have any impact on the host of other issues that were working on because each one of these issues has a different analysis and is based on different statutes or different interpretations of our authority. So for example, on climate change, thats based on the Clean Air Act and previous Supreme Court rulings as opposed to a theory of prosecutorial discretion that in the past as every other president has exercised. The problem is they dont have a ninth justice. So that will continue to be a problem. With respect to the republicans, i think what it tells you is that if you keep on blocking judges from getting on the bench, then courts cant issue decisions. And what that means is then youre going to have the status quo frozen and were not going to be able to make progress on some very important issues. Now that may have been their strategy from the start, but its not a sustainable strategy. And it certainly is a strategy that will be broken by this election. Unless their basic theory is we will never confirm judges again. Hopefully thats not their theory. Because thats not how our democracy is designed. Maybe the next time they can if we have a full court issuing a full opinion on anything, then we take it seriously. This we have to abide by, but it wasnt any kind of value statement or a decision on the merits of these issues. Thank you, guys. See this breeiefing with the president on our website at c span. Org. Jack lew said the trust funds are secure in the shortterm, but that reforms are needed to ensure that they are solvent sbo the future. Labor secretary thomas perez joined secretary lew discussing releasing of the reports. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for being here. The medicare boards of trustees met earlier today to complete their annual financial review of these two important programs and approved the final reports. Its been a privilege for me to serve and i want to thank the other members of the boards for their partnership and many contributions on these critical issues. For decades Social Security and medicare served successful. These important programs represent stability and Economic Security for millions of hard working americans who contributed to the program during their work iing years an rely on the benefits into their older years. Ensuring the longterm solvency of these programs for todays retires and retires of future generations is among our nations greatest responsibilities. Todays report confirms that the bipartisan budget act of 2015 addressed the immediate fiscal challenge of the Disability Insurance program. Social security and medicare remain secure in the immediamed term. Future solvency challenges for both programs remain. Last years report the trustees projected a depletion in 2016 of the Social Security Disability Insurance trust fund. Provisions in the bipartisan budget act of 2015 combined with updated problematic demographic and economic information postponed the projected depletion of the ssdi trust fund by seven years from 2016 to 2023. They combined the status of these two trust funds. They project that the combined trust funds will be depleted in 2034, the same year projected in last years report. The reports continue to reflect the Affordable Care act on our Nations Health care system. Increases to Health Care Costs have slowed substantially. Nevertheless, the projection suggests that the trust fund will be depleted in 2028 and medicare faces a substantial longterm shortfall that needs to be addressed. Todays reports like those of recent years, show we have some time to address the fiscal challenges faced by these trust fund programs. But reform will be needed. Congress should not wait to address the fiscal challenges given they represent the cornerstone of Economic Security for seniors in our country. In doing so, the first challenge is to ensure solvency for future generations of americans and at the same time we should expand and finance Social Security benefits particularly for the most vulnerable. Thank you and secretary tom perez will go next. Thank you for your leadership. Thank you, the secretary was here and had to leave. Were celebrating some important milestone this is year. Next month it will be 50 years since the first Medicare Beneficiaries were enrolled in the program. We marked 75 years since the first monthly Social Security check was issued. Its no accident that a portrait of an architect of the labor secretary hangs in my office right behind my desk because she was the Gold Standard for all of us who had the honor to serve in this position. She would marvel at its growth. Social security and medicare have become the cornerstones of our Retirement Security policy. They are the heart of the bargain in america. If you work hard and take responsibility, you can enjoy a secure and dignified requirement. Over the years the American Public has grown to rely on the trust that Social Security and medicare are the most stable and comprehensive social safety net programs available to almost all of us. Today over 60 million americans receive benefits from Social Security averaging over 1200 a month. We need to make sure we need to ensure the solvency and make sure retirees can retire with dignity and address these issues so that we can indeed uphold that basic bargain for the middle class. The role of the department of labor is really to make sure that we continue to work and use all of our tools at our disposal to grow jobs, make sure those jobs pay a decent wage and to make sure that we work with people with disabilities to ensure they can get in the workplace. Theres not a lot of people that i meet that say, tom, i want to be a taxpayer. The work that i do with people with disabilities i hear that all the time . And we need to continue our efforts. The economy continues to move in the right direction. We have gone from 10 unemployment to unemployment now that is under 5 . But we can do more. We must do more. And one obvious way to increase Labor Force Participation that would help sustain the health of these trust funds is to enact paid leave and child care policies. If e we kept pace by way of example with canada in terms of female Labor Force Participation, we would have more than 5 million more additional women in the u. S. Labor force. In 2000 our Labor Force Participation rates of women between the ages of 25 and 54 were roughly identical to canada. Now they are 8 points higher. If we had simply kept pace, wed have 5 million more additional women in the u. S. Labor force. If it they brought home the t typical earnings of women working today, that would add 20 billion to the Social Security trust fund and nearly 5 billion to the Medicare Trust fund this year alone. And so those are the things that we need to continue doing at the department of labor. Were continuing to make sure that we also promote savings through our regulatory reforms to ensure that workers who are working to save for retirement can indeed enjoy that retirement supporting state efforts to promote retirement and continuing to work to make sure that all of those pillars of a successful and dignified retirement are indeed enjoyed. Well continue to move forward and with that let me turn it over to the administrator. Thank you, secretary perez and secretary lew. Good morning. Medicare is a cornerstone of American Health care. Its provided financial security, Accessible Health care for our grandparents and our parents generation. When medicare was passed about half of our nations senior hs no health insurance. Today that number is less than 2 . And today with the Medicare Trustees report, we reaffirm our commitment to making sure that medicare is strong and secure for us, our children and for generations to come. Id like to highlight a few items from the report today. First, total medicare expenditures are slightly lower than estimated last year. Second, the Medicare Trust fund is projected to be funded through 2028. This is 11 years longer than projected before the passage of the Affordable Care act. And over the next decade, medicare per enroll lee spending is projected to continue to grow slower than historical rates at 4. 3 . Lower than the growth of National Health expenditures. Some of this reduction in medicare spending is the direct result of payment reforms in the Affordable Care act. This continued slow down in spending and kept medicare on a Solid Foundation in the near term and saved hundreds of billions in taxpayer dollars. In fact, hhs recently announced that medicare spent about 473 billion less between 2009 and 2014 than would have been spent under preaca growth rates. We need to continue our broader efforts to a smarter payment system. Efforts to pay for quality of care rather than quantity of services. The Affordable Care act jump started this effort and the bipartisan macrolaw gave us a greater opportunity to drive efforts forward and faster. Third, i want to address one of the reports findings. High cost drugs are a major driver of medicare spending growth. For the second year in a row, we saw spending growth prescription drugs outpace. Through 2025 Medicare Part d per enroll ree are estimated to increase nearly 50 higher than the estimated increase in gdp per capita and higher than the combined per enroll lee growth rate of Medicare Part a and b combined. While we must continue to support innovation, this is why we proposed steps to address these costs and have recently proposed a pilot to optimize beneficiary access to drugs while studying payment models. Theres more we can do and should do and will continue to lock for ways to better address high cost of drugs. Finally, let me address an early view of part b premiums for next year. First, its too early to have a clear view. Preliminary data suggests the provisions in 2016 may apply again. However, the situation is different from last year in the following ways. First, final cost of living adjustment data wont be out until the fall and theres more uncertainly regarding the update and whether the harmless provision will apply. Second, the potential impact if it were to apply is smaller than last year. And third, thanks to the bipartisan action we saw last year, there are more protections this year in certain scenarios. Well continue to monitor the a data and explore administrative options needed. In closing, i want to look forward. Today the Medicare Program is moving into the future with a focused effort at delivering quality care to seniors while spending our money smarter. Our success here will ensure that medicare is strong for generations to come. Thank you and with that i u will now turn this over to acting administrator colvin. He envisioned Social Security as a bold new way to provide workers and families through broad social insurance protections. With the support of scholars and Business Leaders over the years, Social Security is still evolving to fulfill fdrs vision. Its also the main source of Life Insurance and Disability Protection for working families. Few Government Agencies touch as many lives as we do at the Social Security administration. Fdr envisioned Social Security as an earned benefit. Workers pay for it through deductions from their paychecks. This year employees pay 6. 2 of their earnings up to 118,500 and employers pay a matching amount. The money goes to the Social Security trust fund and spent only for benefits. In addition 4 in 10 beneficiaries pay income taxes from their benefits and that money, too, goes sbo the Social Security and Medicare Trust funds. Any trust fund money not needed for immediate benefits is invested in earned interest that helps pay future benefits. Outsource reserves now exceed 2. 8 trillion on those reserves provided 10 of Social Security income last year. As Trustees Report to congress and to the public on the stalts of the Social Security trust funds over the next 75 years todays report shows large improvement in the near term. Last year we projected that the Disability Insurance trust fund would run before the end of 2016. Thanks to the successful work of people on both sides of the aisle, congress enacted and president obama signed into law the Social Security benefit protection and opportunity enhancement act last november and with that legislation todays report shows that the trust fund is now extended until 2023. For the longterm the Financial Outlook for Social Security is similar to what we reported last year. If no further legislative changes are made the best estimate over the next 75 years is the combined Social Security program is financed until 2034, but reserves would be depleted. New contributions from workers and employers and income taxes would cover only 79 of scheduled benefits. The longterm shortfall is of the earnings subject to contributions down slightly from last years estimate. This means, for example, that Social Security would be fully financed over the next 75 years if workers and employers were to pay about 1. 3 more. Law make verse many policy options to remedy the shortfall and our independents have analyzed more than 100 policy proposals from lawmakers and think tanks across the political spectrum. Those results are available at our website. I believe we need to start a new National Conversation about how to close Social Securitys future gap and we would be wise to do this soon to avoid drawing down the reserves that produce Interest Income to help pay for future benefits. President obama suggested a path forward earlier this month. He assessed the state of Retirement Security and the nation and concluded people have pensions they can really count on, which is why Social Security is more important than ever. We cannot afford to weaken Social Security. We should be strengthening Social Security. Not only do we need to strengthen its longterm health, its time we finally made Social Security more generous and increase this benefits so teeds retirees and future generations get the retirement they need. We can start paying for it by asking the wealthiest americans to contribute more. I just want to close by saying todays report shows that Social Securitys total benefit obligations are 5 of the national economy. That will increase to 6 when baby boomers are retired and remain for the rest of the 75 years. That 1 increase to sustain Social Security is surely manageable. Its less than 2. 5 of the gdp increase in National Spending for Public Education back when baby boomers were children. Back in the 1950s and 60s, children showed up in record numbers to enroll in kindergarten and had time to prepare. Now in the 21st century about population ageing is now a surprise. We all know that we get one year older each year. Im confident that we will be ready with a Social Security system where todays retires get the dignified retirement that they have earned as president obama has urged us to do. Thank you very much. Before i take questions for the trustees to answer, i ask that if youre called on to wait for the microphone. Finally we ask that all questions remain on topic. The president said benefits should be made more jen rougs for future retirees. I wobdser how the administration would justify pushing for more generous benefits. I think the president was clear we need to make sure that the trust fund is solvent, secure for the longterm and we have the ability to look at benefits and to finance some changes in benefits at the same time. Thises not a new issue p we looked at these issues in 2011 and 2013. There have been discussions about what you do with the most vulnerable. And i think they are not at all inconsistent. We know what it takes to make Social Security sound. I was involved in 1983, so i remember very well what it took in 1983. Were going to have to have a bipartisan discussion. Its i believe going to have to involve addressing the tax base. We dont put a Social Security tax on income above a certain level. That level is not very high. Its around 110,000 a year. And there are, as the president said, a lot of people who can afford to pay more, and Social Security is a program that i think has very much merit for being treated that way. So theres a big discussion to be had. But i dont think theyre inconsistent. Solvency is the foundation. You have to ensure solvency. But when you have that conversation, it can be a broader conversation. Well have ricardo. Reporter thank you. Ricardo polanzo saldovar with ap. For administrator slavitt, if theres a slowdown in medicare costs, and youre seeing that, and its factored into your assumptions, then why has the insolvency date of the trust fund moved up by two years . Sure, ricardo, thanks. I would remind us, just a short time ago we were looking at a date of 2017, which is next year. So we are substantially ahead thanks to the Affordable Care act. And i would also remind us that, as i said in my opening remarks, costs are actually lower than they were estimated to be this year. And they remain at historically low levels. I think there are two assumptions that drove the depletion date change that were i think quite modest. Even modest assumptions sometimes have that level of impact. The first, theres a light reduction in the assumption of payroll taxes. And the second is a slower rate of reduction in inpatient utilization. So the good news is, inpatient utilization is still declining. Its just declining at a slightly lower rate. Our last question. Go ahead. Paul krauzak, roll call. Could you please explain what happens with the ipad trigger in this report compared to last years report . Im happy to take that. Its an easy answer, because theres really no change in the projection, and no change in the activity. Obviously well be looking and watching and analyzing what next years actuarial report says. Next years administration will have to take the appropriate action be. That concludes the press conference portion of today. Well be moving to a Technical Briefing with Senior Administration officials. If youre interested, we welcome you to stay around and ask maybe more detailed questions for more of our administration folks. That will happen in about 15 minutes. Thank you. This is live cell phone video from the house floor as the sitin by House Democrats continues. Its gone over for 25 hours now. Democrat members want the Republican Leaders to bring up gun control legislation in the face of increasing gun violence, but the house recessed early this morning for the july 4th holiday. Congressman mark beesy was there speaking. He was on the floor and shortly we do expect to hear from House Minority whip hoyer and when that happens youll be able to watch it live on cspan as we have been bringing this to you via social media. Someone that goes to a gun store that maybe turned down because they were a felon. Will they go to a straw purchaser who can buy a weapon because they dont have a criminal record. They will buy a mass quantity of weapons and sell them. Sought justice in the courts. He wanted to demonstrate that this gun seller acted with negligence, acted without due care for who the gun seller was selling weapons to. People buying mass quantity of weapons clearly not for their personal use. Congressman adam schiff on the floor as this sitin continues. You can watch all of this on our companion network cspan. Today voters in the United Kingdom will decide if their country should stay or leave the european union. British Prime Minister David Cameron and jeremy corr bin want the uk to remain a member of the eu, but some members of the party are part of the brexit push advocate iing for the uk t split from the european union. Watch the live simulcast today begin ining at 5 00 p. M. Easter on cspan 2 and cspan. Org. Right now, a hearing on isis ideology and its relation to and motivation for lone wolf actors like the shooting in orlando, florida, recently. Refugees from isisaffected areas talks about what drives the successes and failures and made recommendations for how to best counter isis. Good morning, this hearing will come to order. We have one witness who parked over at Union Station and making his way over here. He can join us when he gets here. I want to thank the witnesses for appearing for your time, your testimony. The Mission Statement of this committee, you have heard it repeatedly, but ill repeat it again. To enhance the economic and National Security of america. On the Homeland Security side, one of our top four priorities is doing whatever we can to keep our homeland safe to counter islamic terror. The goal of every hearing, from my standpoint coming from a manufacturing background, i solved a lot of problems. The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one. But really facing reality. So the goal of every hearing is to lay out a reality. So that certainly the members of the committee, the people in the audience understand what were dealing with with a particular problem. Todays hearing is our eighth hearing dealing with some form of component of the threat we face from islamic terror. Its a harsh reality. Its one i wish u was not true. It was one i wish we didnt have to face. But we have to. Were going to be hearing testimony today that will be hard to hear. It will be hard to hear. But its testimony that i think is incredibly important for us to hear. So i thank the witnesses for appearing. I would ask that my written statement be entered into the record, without objection. Its important for us to understand that islamic terrorists declared war on the United States. Quite honestly, they declared on the civilized world. We didnt declare war on them. They declared war on us. I cant exactly point to the date, but certainly one thats pretty visible was the first attempt to bring down the twin trade towers. And the fact that we didnt face the full reality right there and then i think eventually led to the fact that we then faced the tragedy of 9 11. Were almost 3,000 americans were slaughtered in that terrorist attack. Now there are two ways to end a war. Only two ways. Either one side defeats the other or both sides decide to lay down their arms. The tragic events of yet another isisinspired terror attack on this country in orlando has proven islamic terrorists are not laying down their arms. So the only way were going to end this war, the only way were going to keep our homeland safe, return peace to the civil liezed world is if we defeat islamic terrorists, if we defeat isis. On september 10th, 2014 president obama laid out americas goal as it relates to isis. It was pretty simply state d. To degrade and ultimately defeat them. That was 22 months ago. 22 months ago. In testimony last week before the Senate Foreign relations committee, the cia director john brennan laid out reality as it relates to our success or lack thereof in our war on isis. And he testified thattist u. S. Remains a formidable, resilient and largely cohesive enemy. And that our efforts of not reduced their terrorism capability and their global reach. Now that is a depressing reality after 22 months. But its a reality we have to face. So again, i just want to thank the witnesses. Dont hold back. Lay out the reality. The senators on this diyas, that the American People understand the threat, the enemy we face and why its crucial that we defeat them. I wish they would declare peace, but it doesnt seem like thats going to happen. With that ill turn it over to my Ranking Member. Thank you, mr. Chairman. First of all, thank you for delaying this hearing for a week so that our witnesses could be assembled. We have more time to prepare for this hearing. We welcome each of you. Thank you for coming and sharing with us your stories and perspectives. They are valued and were delighted you could come. I want to just follow up briefly on how the fight against isis is going. I went over a map today of that part of the world. The u. S. And Coalition Forces have recaptured almost 50 of the land that isis held once in iraq and syria. Almost 50 . Were up to 47 . Istst has also lost 20 of land it once held in syria. Ramadi was a key victory. Last friday iraqi forces, Ground Forces captured a city in the center of fallujah and working to clear out the last few pockets of resistance in that city. So theres only 25 miles west of baghdad. As we speak, kurdish, iraqi and Syrian Democratic forces backed by the l u. S. Special forces are making preparations to retake isis key strongholds in mosul and raqqah. We have killed some 25,000 isis fighters and more than 120,000 key isis leaders. We have cut isis funds by a third or more. We literally e destroyed hundreds of millions of dollars in cash that they were hoarding and reduced by a dramatic amount their ability to realize profits from oil reserves and resources in that part of the world. We have drastically slowed the flow of foreign recruits from 2,000 a month in 2014 to 200 a month today. And there also goes for Young Americans who have sought to travel or join isis. One year ago about every month about ten americans were leaving this country to join isis. Today that number is one per month. And at home the fbi is cracking down on recruits as well. Over the past two years, the fbi has arrested 88 individuals on isisrelated charges. I was a naval flight officer for 23 years. I served five years in a hot war in southeast asia. I know a little bit about fighting wars. Another 18 years up to the end of the cold war as a mission commander. One of the wayst were going to win this fight is not by ourselves. Theres not an appetite in this country for putting boots on the ground but there is an appetite for working with a coalition of countries throughout the region and the world and thats what were doing. I believe were making progress. Is it perfect . No, it is not. But i think were making progress. The other thing i want to say is last saturday, nine days ago, my wife and i went up to new york. We have a son who lives in that area of the city. He took us for fathers day and his Moms Birthday to the 9 11 museum which is built right on the l location of where the twin towers once stood. I was reminded there as we saw the faces and names and heard the voices of family members of some 3,000 people who died that day. I was reminded of the way we responded to that tragedy. In this room, in this room we helped to create the nempb commission. In this room e we received some 40 recommendations of Bipartisan Group presented to us by tom cane, presented by lee hamilton, former house chairman, cochairs of the 9 11 commission. They presented to us after months and months of work some 40 recommendations that they came to unanimously on what we could do to reduce the likelihood these attacks would happen again. We adopted maybe 80 of them. Almost unanimously. Then set about implementing them. The response to that tragedy was bipartisan, it was a unified approach and ultimately its been successful. And when you compare that response to the response of the tragedy in orlando, it could be could not be more different. My hope today is were going to have the kind of conversation with all of you to enable us to better improve this fight. And this is a fight were going to win. And we have a lot of allies that happen to be not just folks in this country, not just people who might be catholic or together were going to prevail. I ask unanimous consent that the rest of my statement be entered into the record. Without objection. It is the tradition to swear in witnesses. If you will all rise and raise your right hand. Do you sweater testimony you will give before this committee is the troouts, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god . I do. Please be seated. Our first witness is an associate fellow at the thai hee institute for middle east policy. He coauthored isis inside the army of terror. He started work in abu dhabi in journalism and research focusing on syria and gulf states and studying jihadist moves in the wide ere region. Thank you, chairman johnson and Ranking Member carper and members of the committee. In my introduction, i want to add i come from an isiscontrolled area, controlled today. Also, i have also interviewed dozens of isis members for my book, and other research. And i want to say this. This is not a sectarian war. The very people that isis claims to represent are victims of its brutality just as much as everyone else. There is this is reality felt on a daily basis. When a family and friends go to the market and see severed heads on pipes or when isis condemns its sunni opponents, people that they claim to represent as upper states, they burn them alive, stab their hearts before they shoot them, they display their dead bodies for days in central squares. It doesnt matter if you pray, if you fast or ramadan, if you turn your faith towards mecca and pray. We will still kill you as long as you dont pledge allegiance to us. Not far from where i come from in my area, isis killed 700 sunni villagers in a matter of days because they dared to stand up against the group. And i want to move on to say that as a belief system, those who believe in the Islamic State ideology are minority, not only in the muslim world, but also within the group. During my research, i found that members come in six categories. One, longstanding religious radicals. Who deviate even from al qaeda. For example, they believe theres no sanctity of life. Unlike al qaeda, which, for example, justifies killing civilians but only as collateral daniel, isis considers civilians itself the preferred outcome. In fact, a month ago, exactly a month ago, the spokesperson for isis said when he called for sympathizers in the west and europe and the United States to launch attacks, he said i receive complaints from people, sympathizers saying we couldnt find military targets, and we are afraid to kill civilians. He said theres no such thing as innocent civilians in the west. In fact, he moved on to say we prefer that you kill civilians. And he said i dont have time to justify that. Basically, didnt even have the justification during the statement. And the second category of people who join isis are young zealots who are victims of the first category. People who are between 12 to 17. People who are drawn to this ideal of a caliphate and so on and so forth. Theyre brain washed. They are told that islam in a way that isis understands, that distorts a lot of things. Because people dont have religious knowledge, they hear a lot of events and the traditions that isis relates for the first time. And theres a third category which is very important. People who are drawn to isis, political ideology, not religious one. This is a major problem, not only within isis, but i think in the region. People who are drawn to this political ideology, not only for isis, but al qaeda and other groups because they think theres political stagnation in the region and only these groups can actually shake up the political order in the region. And i think omar mateen belongs to a category of people who are only superficially influenced by this organization. He obviously didnt follow their way of life, but he still was an animated by this idea of the Islamic State. The other categories drawn to the group because of its military success, attraction to brutality, or simply their profit e profitte profitears, but the group swims in a sea of political failures in the region. Thats where we should focus. Its not a surprise, for example, that isis emerged in iraq and in syria. Countries that suffered unimaginable brutality, violence over the past decade in the case of iraq, and half a decade in it case of syria. The group has built its narrative around the idea of sunni victimization. It benefits from the brutal reality in iraq and syria to say that sunnis are systematically under attack by iranian backed militias or governments in those two countries and that the two greatest superpowers in the world are helping both of them. And that there are traitors in our midst who help them. Its important without downplaying the genocidal acts of isis to highlight that the regi regime in damascus has carried out almost all of its atrocities that isis has committed even before isis arrived in syria. In 2012, for example, progovernment militias in syria stormed villages, slaughtered children and women, and smashed heads of condemned people. And i just want to conclude by saying and emphasizing that isis thrived in this context and should be defeated in this context to stem its international appeal. This is only happen add the hands of the very people isis claims to represent. Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Hassan. Our next witness is dr. Tarek l elgawhay. Hes also serving as the ceo of the co exist corporation and a trustee of the coexist foundation. He has a pd pd frd ph. D. From princeton. Dr. Elgawhay. Senators johnson and carper, thank you for the opportunity and the other members of the committee. I would like to make brief introductory remarks and try to save the other maybe discussion points for questions and answers. I would like to add to what senator johnson said in the beginning, that before isis or isil and other related groups declared war on our homeland, they declared war on islam. And this is not only a threat to our homeland, not only a threat to our National Security, but an existential threat to our religion. Islam in sunni and shia expressions is defined by a very robust, interpretive methodology. Thats what you go to seminary to be trained in. Very briefly, this methodology requires one to understand the divine tex, the text of the koran, the understand the various statements of the prophet. There are 6,233 verses in the koran, there are over 100,000 narrations of this prophetic texes. Understanding the texts means understanding about a dozen different sciences beginning with arabic grammar, syntax, logic, all of these different interpretive tools we use to understand what does the text actually mean in the context in which it was revealed. The second thing is to understand the context that we live in now. The current moment. Understanding full well that people change, times change, circumstance change. And location and place change. How does one fast the month of ramadan in the northern latitudes in which the early muslim generations never experienced . How do we deal with the light of fiat currency, not backed by gold or silver bouillon, so on and so forth. So that further adds that one needs to understand the current moment we live in and its complesty and its changing. And then the third aspect of this interpretive paradigm is how do we link the divine text into the current moment in which we live . And that, as we were taught, is a talent. Not everyone is endowed with that type of talent. Viral and Extremist Groups like isil have no interpretation whatsoever, nor do they have a fundamental understanding of islam. Theyre unlettered warmongers who have in essence created a parallel religion. Yet the parallel religion they call to is no more islamic than a pool with one lemon squeezed in it is lemonade. Because of their lack of a robust interpretive methodology, the good news is were able to identify what is so wrong with their thinking. In my work and in my analysis, i have been able to dedeuce about a half a dozen or so main concepts that they have, and have been able to trace them back to a certain cluster of sources that are used by every single islamist Extremist Group from the middle of the 20th century until our time today. And in that, i am able to isolate those concepts, were able to provide a counternarrative and deal with it. I dont have an army at my disposal. I dont own weapons whatsoever. I leave that to law enforcement. What i have is my intellect, my scholarly training, and i can employ that to provide a robust counternarrative to inoculate our youth, to protect the next generation, and make it absolutely unequivocally clear that what isil represents, what they stand for, has nothing to do with the religion whatsoever. Thank you. Thank you, dr. Elgawhay. Our next witness is mr. Subhi nuhos. He fled syria in 2012 after receiving threats from soldiers and yehjihadists because of his sexual preference. He fled first to lebanon and then turkey. He was granted Refugee Status after a year and moved to the United States. In august 2015, he testified before the United Nations Council Summit on lgbt rights in syria. Mr. Nahas. Chairman johnson, Ranking Member carper, members of the committee, thank you for offering me the honor and the opportunity to be here today to share my story in the context of the larger events happening here in the world and here in the United States. My personal story mirrors the stories of many other lgbt individuals. One day i was heading to university. An organized group of militants accosted solely because they perceived me as gay. In a local mosque, they said they would clear the city of all sodomites. They targeted all gay men in the country. I fled from my home country of syria in 2012. After living in a country of lebanon for six months, i moved to turkey. My history of activism for lgbt right meant that even in turkey, i once again find myself in danger. Extremist groups like al qaeda and isis were gaining strength and access there. Although i was employed for three years in a senior position with save the children international, i was still not safe because of my sexual identity. A syrian friend informed me i had been targeted for death. The director of save the children helped me with a u. N. Refugee agency. Prior to my resettlement, i completed an extremely thorough screening process which included testifying und during a historic event organized by the United States and chile. As i stated during the meeting, and to the press along with ambassador samantha power, isis was simply one of many threats to the Lgbt Community in the middle east. Reports from recent refugees of syria say that isis and other groups actively target gay people. It is enough just to be perceived as gay by them to be arrested, tortured, or raped. Then this perceived gay person can be thrown off of a building to a full crowd that will stone them to death if theyre not death. While isis is viewed by the public as the most notorious group in syria and iraq, it may come as a surprise that their methodology, when it comes to the treatment of lgbt people, is very similar to many other groups, including governments themselves. We know that many groups, including isis, target and kill gay people in syria. They just use different methods to kill. While good fortune has allowed me to begin a new, much safer life as a refugee in the United States, recent events show lgbt people still face huge challenges here. A New York Times reported on june 16th, even before the shooting rampage of the gay nightclub in orlando, florida, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender people were already the most likely targets of hate crimes in america. According to analysis of Data Collected by the fbi. Put simply, efforts to discredit the poisonous ideology of isis and other Extremist Groups while extremely important are insufficient to completely erase the threats of lgbt violence either here in this country or abroad. Rather we must we must also commit to combatting homeo phobia, zen ophobia, and bigotry in all of its various forms, regardless of the source. In order to deal with these issues, i recommend two things. One, through the bridges and power unique to the United Nations, support actions that promote not only human rights for lgbt persons but also love, inclusion, tolerance, and equality among religious communities. This requires continued u. S. Leadership at forums like the u. N. Human Rights Council and supporting funding for the u. N. Institutions like the u. N. Refugee agency. Statements such as the one issued by the Security Council on monday condemning the Orlando Attack are critical. The statement specifically denounced for the first time violence targeting people as a result of their Sexual Orientation, and it received support from russia and egypt. This will make it more difficult for those countries and others to argue that Sexual Orientation is not recognized is not a recognized International Human right. Two, we need partnerships across communities that can address the serious negative consequences of isis idelology, including assisting the communities affected by it. For example, i have launched a special project which assists lgbt refugees in the middle east and north africa region by providing shelter and education while also promoting in the u. S. And abroad a more positive image of the lgbt people. So thank you again for this opportunity. Thank you, mr. Nahas. Our final witness is ms. Nadia murad, a iyazidi rights activis. Since her escape, nadia has been outspoken about her experiences. Earlier this year, the Iraqi Government nominated her for the 2016 nobel peace prize. Ms. Murad. I will mention murad coincidentally is her interpreter. Thank you. Thank you, gentleman. Translator mr. Chairman, senators, im very grateful and very happy to be testifying among you and thank you for the opportunity. The first thing i would like to tell you is that i was heartbroken when i witnessed the crimes in orlando because for the same reason, for no reason, they were killed, and they were abused just the way i was. But i wasnt surprised by this because i knew if isis was not stopped, they will deliver their crimes everywhere. When i was captured, i was 19 years old. I was one of the 6,000 yazidi women and children taken into captivity. This happened on august 2014, more than a year and a half now, and isis attacked the yazidis for one reason, because they are considered infidels, not people of the book and their interpretation is that the men must be killed and the women and children must be enslaved. And this is what they apply to us, thousands of men, women, and children, were killed in the first day of the attack in sinjar. In the hottest days of the summer, more than 1,000 yazidis were stranded on the mountain. Its true that crimes were committed in iraq and syria, but what happened to the yazidis was different. I was one of the girls who were enslaved in mosul. I was among one of the thousands of women taken to mosul. The first thing they did in mosul was to, after distributing us to the fighters, was to take us to the court and have us convert by putting our hand on the koran. Translator it is true that i was raped and soiled and abused, but i was lucky. I wish that everyone from the 6,000 women and children was like me because girls at age of 9 were raped as well. Only in two hours in my village, more than 700 men were killed, among them were six of my brothers and the same day my mother was killed, too, for no reason, but for having a different religion. I am not saying that isis represents the islam, but isis is using the islam to commit its crimes. We need to stop the ideology first. Many people in the area had a choice to leave when isis came, but they were happy to join the Islamic State when they came. There are many things for me to testify about and tell you today, just the time is limited and i dont speak english. I wish i could tell you more. I would like you to give me more one minute if possible. Take your time. We want to hear the story. Please. Take whatever time it takes. Translator this was committed against the yazidis first, and its still continuing until now. Translator i deliver this message to egypt and to kuwait because what is happening has been happening under the name of islam. People there, they had the sympathy and they said this does not represent us. But we have not seen that daesh have been labeled as infidel group within islam from any muslim country. And i ask the leader in cairo is to say that isis is an infidel group within islam and he has not committed to it yet. Many families in iraq and syria when the yazidi women and girls were to the houses, they could have helped them, but no, they seize them and give them back to the militants. Daesh will not give up on their weapons unless we force them to give away their weapons. Before all the arab countries must stop the flow of the citizens into daesh and prevent them from joining daesh. And we have to prevent the supplies of weapon and money to them. And we prevent their oil will not be sold. And then we have to fight them militarily after that. The yazidis, all of the religious minorities in iraq, are unable to protect themselves in iraq and syria. A country as strong as your country cannot protect citizens in orlando or belgium and france, how can a minority like us protect ourselves when were in the heart of the land where the radicals are. There are many things for me to ask you, because for three years we have been waiting. But the list is just too long for me to ask you. I know what is going on now with m modern yazidi girls and women who are still in captivity. When i was held for every hour, i was very happy and grateful that i was not sold, i was not raped. One hour was counted for me, and every hour was counting for me. I was freed, but i do not enjoy the feeling of the freedom because those who committed this crime have not been held accountable. What happened to the yazidi people was a genocide. Just the first day, thousands were killed. The first displacement of persons of the yazidi people who do not have the joy to have a tent to live in. And for holding more than 1,000 yazidi children in syria to be trained to have the exact same ideology that the crimes were committed under. Because of the children who are at age of 9 who didnt enjoy the childhood and became slaves. And for the people who drown in the aegean sea and thats also a crime of isis because the people escaped because of isis. Because thousands of our children also have been prevented from going to school, and this is all because of them. Today, im saying that small religious minorities such as the yazidis, christians, and other minorities, if they are not protected, they will be wiped out. We only are seeking peace. We want to live with dignity wherever we are. Translator as a little girl, i had a dream. That dream was to open a beauty salon, and i was prevented from accomplishing that dream, and thats the exact same story with thousands of children and people like me who were preventing to continue pursuing their dreams. This should not be practiced against islam, but the crimes have been committed in the name of islam, and the muslims must be the first one to resist this. I dont like anyone to be attacking an entire religion, for example, the family that liberated me in muslim. But at the same time, this has been committed under the name of islam. There is so much time that is needed for me to tell my entire story. But now i will stop and i will give you the opportunity to ask any questions. Thank you, ms. Murad. Thanks for your courage in coming forward and testifying. Let me just ask. Any of family survive . Translator yes. Two of my sisters, three of my brothers, and some of my nephews and nieces. 18 people from my family and extended families are killed or missing. Can you tell us how you escaped . Translator i never believed i would be able to escape because not me or other girls because we were held in areas it was vastly occupied by isis. The first couple days, i tried to escape because i could not hold on more on the rape that was committed against me and the insults that were committed against me, i could not take it more. I decided to escape. I attempted to escape, but i was not successful. I was taken back, and i became a subject of rape by multiple people. Collective rape. The second time i attempted to escape, i was successful, and a family in mosul helped me and they made for me an islamic i. D. With that i. D. , i was able to escape from mosul. You mentioned 3200 additional yazidi girls and women being he held captive. Are they dispersed throughout syria and iraq at this time . Translator yes, they are everywhere because they are not held in a specific place. What is happening is that they are being sold, and their places will be changed from a place to another. By the way, we are holding questioning in five minutes because we have so many members attending this. Thank you. I want to go to dr. Elgawhay. A real scholar in islam. Can you just explain, is there any way for you to for us to understand how did how did adherence of this barbarity of this violence, how did it get to that point . What happened . So, thank you, nadia, and nadia mentioned so nadia was saying that daesh, they dont represent islam, but they use islam. She gave some examples, but theyre using islam wrong. For example, they told her she has to go to court and swear on the koran to become a muslim, but thats not how you become a muslim. You become a muslim by testifying. So even small mundane things, they dont even understand. And i just was so moved by what she said, and it reminded me that the prophetic text, peace be upon them. He said fear the supplication of the oppressed because theres no between that and the lord. And he never mentioned its muslim or not a muslim, and he said i am the protector of the religious, the defender of the religious minority on the day of judgment of the muslim that aggresses guess tagainst the re minority. Its a big question you asked, senator johnson, but basically the way i see is theyre taking certain concepts or certain phrases and adding to it and appropriating to it new meaning that doesnt example. For example, nadia mentioned one of thehings they told her is that yazidis dont count as the people of the book. Theyre apositates, but the people of the peopconcept is no conscriptive, its descriptive. It describes an organized religion that has a legal code, a book meaning, a sacred text, so on and so forth. As muslims expand eed eastward, they encountered yazidis. These are communities that have coexisted with muslims from the first generation of islam up until now. All the other hinduism, taoism, all of these religions, muslim scholars understood these as people of the book because its a description, not conscriptive. This is how they misunderstand things. Their basic access around which this thinking exists is declaring people to be apostates. Im an apostate according to him, therefore they can aggress against me. Why am i an apostate . I dont agree with what they agree. I dont pledge allegiance to them. With this tactic, they go on and on and on. One last thing nadia mention ed in cairo, why doesnt the Senior Leadership of sunni islam declare isis because i know thats a common question i get. Our understanding of organizations like isis is even worse than apostsy because theres no punishment for it. The prophet said thee people are outliers. And in all of his mercy and all of his love and all of his beautiful teachteachings, he sa that they are the dogs of hell fire, and he said glad tithings to those who fight them and kill them and are killed in the process of killing them about the outliers. Its even worse, even more of a derogatory statement, a derogatory label than being an apostate. Its an obligation on all of us in the family of islam to do what we can to combat it with whatever tools we have at our disposal. One very quick question for you, you or mr. Hassan. A population, 1. 4 billion, 1. 6 billion. What percent of this population adhered to this barbaric ideology. For me . Whoever has an estimate. Isis doesnt need a lot of numbers. We have seen this recently, when there is a force that pushed them in a certain area, they can hold a territory like with 200 people. I think they are a very small minority, even within the syrian rebel groups, they are still a Smaller Group than others, but i think because of the sheer violence and brutality, they deter people. They use a word in their literature which means deterrence, with extreme violence, brutality. So when they kill one person, they make sure that 100 or 1,000 people see that person being killed. Senator carper. Thank you. Did you say we have five minutes . Yeah. So many people here. Okay. Again, our thanks to each one of you for joining us today. And for sharing with us some parts of your life that are not easily shared. Were deeply grateful to each of you, but especially to you, nadia. Thank you. Here in the United States, we are, as you probably know, people of many different religions. Were protestant, catholic, were jew, were muslim, hindu, buddhist. Were other religions as well. And one of the reasons why our country was established was because of the concept, the nature of freedom of religion. People yearning to not just to be free, but to be free to worship god as they saw fit. There are some people who take the bible, most people in america probably protestant and catholic, most but not all, but some people who take versus of scripture out of the bible and twist tw in ways theyre not meant to be done. And there are people of our own faith who bastardize our faith, cherry pick our faith. A great example ais an eye for n eye and a tooth for a tooth. That same verse of scripture goes on to say revenge is mine, said the lord. Theres another verse that says when i was a stranger in your land, did you take me in . And we have some people in this country, some political leaders, i dont know what they read matthew 25, whatever their religion is, but there are some people in this country who have argued that the United States needs to stop accepting not just Syrian Refugees but in some cases all muslim refugees. And in the case of the Syrian Refugees, they would not allow us to accept, they could not be muslim, they could be christian, they could be a jew. A variety of religions. And i would just ask maybe starting with you, mr. Elgawhay, with you, and just ask, what are your opinioning about a ban on all Syrian Refugees . And or even all muslim refugees and how much how such a ban would affect the ability in this country to counter isis propaganda and ideology . Would you go first . Im not really trained as a politician, so neither are we. Were untrained. At the risk of making a political statement, i mean, i think as an american, i understand my question is, my question is what are you thoughts about how a ban on all Syrian Refugees or really all muslim refrefugee how does that effect our countrys ability to counter isis propaganda. As i understand our nation, its unamerican not to accept refugees. And we have, i think, a legal, political, and more importantly, moral authority to take people in that we can. And this is what, you know, epluribusunem, this is what makes our nation great. From a social cohesion standpoint, societies that are more plural are stronger. I think that by bringing in refugees, we will be able to understand the problem more and see how we can help them more, but i think some sort of form of isolationism or some sort of rejection will only increase the problem and make it fester more. Good, thanks. Other witnesses, please. Same question. Sure. I can say two things. The first one is that i try to keep in touch with people who left syria and live in germany and other countries and i have seen how positive the message that European Countries in the case only recently here, that they accepted them. And that was a positive sense, only hearing good things from refugees. They praise the germans and how hosp hospitable, and the second thing is we have to recognize, i think, especially for the United States, that thousands of Syrian Refugees who left syria and turkey and europe for the United States have been instrumental in the fight against isis. They provide intelligence information, guidance, and you know, isis operates in these areas that, you know, in Eastern Syria and northEastern Syria. And northwestern iraq, and these people have been affected most by violence. They are driven out. I mean, theyre the reason why theyre helpful in the fight against isis. All right, thank you. Anyone else . Very briefly. Okay. From my experience as a refugee myself, i went through the process. I could say that its highly unlikely for the process to let any terrorists that come. Its highly intense process which takes security checks, background checks, waiting periods for over like a year, at least a year. And eyewitnesses. They ask you a lot of person questions. And for the slightest chance to let a terrorist or a guy or girl that believes in these ideolo ideologies to pass through is highly unlikely. Nod you, could you briefly explain to my question. Very briefly. A, could you brief explain to my question. Very briefly. D, could you brief explain to my question. Very briefly. Ia, could you brie explain to my question. Very briefly. Adia, could you br explain to my question. Very briefly. Translator i would like to say that every country has a right to protect itself and its borders and its laws. But the people who are escaping from the religious discrimination and genocide, they should not face closed doors before them. I would like just to say that if the terrorists want to go someplace, they can go regardless of the process. And some of them have already integrated. I think we have a moral imperative. We face in the country a moral imperative to be true to the words written at the statue of liberty. We have a moral imperative, we have a moral imperative to 1925, a stranger in our land, we take you in. But we also have a moral imperative to the people who lif here. And want to live in safety. Want to be able to live to be old and have kids and grandchildren. Our challenge here is to make sure that while we need to be true to our faith in allowing people who are in distress and on the run and haunted by their memories, we need to be welcoming to them. We also at the same time have to be mindful of the need to protect our safety. Sometimes, theyre in conflict with one another. Last thing i want to say, doctor, you can comment on this later. My understanding is every religion, just about every religion including islam has a golden rule. Treat other people the way we want to be treated. Is that true . Is that not true of islam . Yes, it is. My view is if all of us would abide by that, because thats part of the fabric of all of our religions, we would be a lot better off. Senator carper, we equally went over. We need to keep five minutes to be respectful. Senator auate. I want to thank the chairman. I want to thank all of you for being here. In particular, mr. Nahas and ms. Murad, were so sorry for what you have gone through and your courage in coming forward today is very important for us to hear what you have endured, and its horrific. But i wanted to follow up, ms. Murad, on the issue that actually you raised and i would like to have dr. Elgawhay comment on it. That is, doctor, you said that what daesh is doing is beyond apostate. You have described it as the dogs of hellfire. And i would agree with that description. But what i want to understand is to what ms. Murad asked, as we look at how the reaction should be from, for example, i think she may have identified the seminary in cairo, which i believe you studied at, is a very, very important seminary in islam. Do you believe that leaders in this seminary and other leaders in the muslim world have described and have called out daesh in the way that you have described it today as forcefully as they should . Thank you, senator. So just a correction. Those werent my words. I was quoting prophet muhammad. He said the outliers are the dogs of hellfire. What i want to understand is to really answer her question, do you think that leaders in a position to influence influence what islam truly stands for, do you think they have been forceful enough in calling out whether you call them dogs of hellfire, apostate, whatever, how daesh is working, as you have testified today, your religion . So i think yes and no. I think there are definitely those who are very outspoken. One scholar that comes to mind that we have worked with is a refugee by all intents and purposes and he has written a nonbinding religious opinion in english against isis, and he makes the argument, which is a valid argument, that daesh or isis are in fact outside of the folds of islam. But if you have worked with scholars and academics, they are sl slow on the uptake and not good in front of the camera. We need leaders. Thats one of the problems, i think, one of the deficiencies, the weak points, is that its communications capacity. In a former life, i actually helped establish the office of communications for egypt between 20032007 before i went to princeton. That was, wow, a coup. When i asked them how do you deal with journalists, they said we call the police and arrest them. You have to work with the media because if you dont, what youre trying to say is not going to get out there. I think theres a lot of training that can happen to help that. I agree with you, more needs to be done. More voices need to be heard. Thank you. Ms. Murad, i wanted to i wanted to say i believe that daesh has engaged in war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. How important do you believe it is, you have put in your written testimony today and also told us. How important is it for the United States to formally recognize daesh actions as genocide . And i mean rereference to the yazidis and what you have told us today about how theyre treating the yazidis. Translator its very important for us that whats happening to us to be acknowledged as a genocide. On just a few days ago, when the u. N. Acknowledged the genocide for the yazidis who have been homeless for the past two years, this was the first time they started having some hope. Eless this was the first time they started having some hope. Peless, this was the first time they started having some hope. Translator i would like these crimes to be rolegally recognized by you and acknowledged and look into the things i have said and the things that daesh has done. They have publicly said they will do it and they did it, and i would like you to look at these crimes and evidence. I want to thank all of you for being here. And i would just say, there is a senate resolution, a resolution 340, which would call this for what it is, a genocide. And i hope that we can come together and declare i would like to see the administration declare this a genocide. And i also would like us in the congress to come together and declare this for what it is. Thank you. Senator tester. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank all of you for your testimony. Dr. Elgawhay, i came in towards the last half of your comments. One of the things you said at the end, i want to confirm this. Isil has nothing to do with religion. Did i hear you right . Isis has nothing to do with islam. Thats what i believe i said. Okay. So tell me the difference real quick. I began by saying that normative islam in its suna and shia expressions is defined by an interpretive methodology and walked through the high level of what that is. Right. And the text that we have, what we believe to be divine tex live in time, and theres a tradition in how we interpret these verses and these injunctions for the moment we live in. Isis, theyre unlettered. Theyre completely unlettered in the religion, in the fundmals nor do they have an interpretive methodology. What they conclude is their own desi desires. Got you. So i keep coming back to why these guys exist. Theres absolutely a criminal element, because we saw that in paris, saw it in brussels. That people belong to isil. Theres also doctors, engineers, well educated folks that are part of it. That quite frankly, shouldnt be a part of a twisted ideology as this. Could you tell me what about their ideology appeals to that broad of a base of crooks and professionals and everything in between . So maybe hassan would know more because hes actually interviewed more of them. I think that the first thing i would point out is that i dont know if they necessarily believe in what isis is saying or theyre coerced to believe in what isis is saying or what theyre holding to be true. I also think coerced by force . Coerced by them, by isil and what not. You dont believe this, youre going to die. Exactly. As we heard the example and other stories that come out in isilcontrolled areas. Theres a spectrum of extremist fraught in islam. It can start as something sort of innocuous, but theres something wrong with that way of thinking and it can slide. I think when they find somebody that sort of looks like theyre from central casting, theyre able to pull them to that side. A lot of folks in that group, it appeared to me, anyway. Would you want to comment briefly on that, what makes it or just agree with the doctor if hes correct. I mentioned in the testimony before that the people who believe in the sort of ideal isil believes in, really believe in it, are only two categories. People who are young zealots who are indoctrinated by another category of longstanding rad c icals who believe in infidels, based on specific criteria they have. They rely on books like there are two books that come to mind. Without getting into too much detail. There is a book, for example, that is 1,000 pages of a man who when he appears on tv and he explain s his methodology of fatwa, he said fatwa should not be should not be done in the same way that muslim clerics have done it over the centuries. All right. I as a person, i declare you as a fellow muslim as an apostate based on my impression of you if you work with the west against muslims or if youre an agent to a certain government and so on and so forth. The criteria are very postmodern in a way. Okay. Back to you, doctor. So are there statements or actions the u. S. Has taken that might encourage people to be a part of isil . For me . Dr. Tarek. Thats a tough question for me to answer. I think that the rhetoric that comes out of isil sometimes makes us think that if it were not for the u. S. Invasion in iraq, if it were not for the u. S. Policy doing this or the u. S. Policy doing that, but the fact of the matter is that one can make that argument for any other country. One could make that argument for any other regional player in that region. And you know, politics is all based on interest, geopolitical interest and things like that. I dont think thats necessarily fair. I think because america is so dominant in the world and so out there, its just an easy target and an easy, oh, well, if america just stopped doing that, well stop doing that. Thats not going to happen. If we stop doing whatever they say, theyre not going to change. My time is up. I want to thank you all for your testimony. Ill submit ill submit questions to record if appropriate. Thank you. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman, and thank you all for such thoughtful comments and for such thoughtful words and such courage and bravery, especially our last two witnesses. I think everyone here who frequently spends a lot of time on their smartphones during testimony sat in and really listened and really you moved us all. Thank you so much for your courage. And for the fact that youre survivors, and as survivors, youre willing to provide testimony as to the horror and as to the imperative that we all as good people need to engage. But i want to, for a minute, turn to our first two witnesses. And just kind of engage in a discussion about message and messengers. Doctor, i was fascinated by the work that you have done basically parsing kind of the perversion and responding to the conversion of or the perversion of islam that is being done by these radical groups. And obviously, having met with people who have been radicalized, have a pretty good sense of what messages could we deliver that would actually make a difference, especially in this country, when now i think our greatest threat is radicalization of young men and women or american citizens. We have seen that now twice. So theres two parts of a message. Its the right message and then the messenger. Im just going to make a couple points. I want both of you to respond to what you think the right message is and the right messenger, and i want to know if youre familiar with what the department of Homeland Security is doing today to try and provide a countermessage and offer any advice to us as we review that in our role of oversight. And that will be the last question i ask. And i would like that you both split up your time. Thank you. In terms of messaging, i think its different because its complicated because isis should be treated as two organizations in one. Theres the local one that operates and has operates on the ground in syria and iraq and elsewhere like libya and elsewhere. They have their own messaging. Usually based on sectarianism. And there is international, which is a very close to al qaeda. They, in fact, are trying to recollect and regather the dispersed networks of al qaeda that were basically dispersed after the terrorist attacks of 9 11 in europe and the United States and elsewhere and north africa. The messages should be different because they are different organizations. On the ground and international low, there is this danger that what happens like the appeal on the ground has been international appeal. Why . Because it presents itself as an idea that everyone is fighting and the enemies of this organization at the west or iran or something else. This organization stands for something. The most effective method against this is not talk too much about only the victims of isis outside the group that it claims to represent, but on a daily basis, it kills fellow sunnis and the people it claims to represent and we dont see that. For example, next to my village, i mentioned they killed 700 people and only Washington Post did the story about that. At the time it killed 700 people. Its not the sectarian organizers or the sect or islam versus the west. It is a vazy organization and there terms that the people of that faith rejected. That needs to be hammered again and again. As far as messaging, there needing to be an unequivocal counter narrative. No wishy washy stuff. There is yes, no, black, white. Period. What i have been trying to do is conduct a traditional class and try to deconstruct it in a detailed way. My goal is for Young Muslim People to understand why its wrong. That kind of effort is what we need more of. I think the english language is very important because a lot of the media is in english in an appeal. That is important. As far as recommendations, some of the things that come to mind in montgomery county, we noticed a drastic increase in bullying. I think antibullying work is very important so that children feel safe and they are not pushed to the sides and we work to help them get settled. They have something to plug into. Those are the things. One last thing, i think that needia training for Muslim Leaders is very penitentiary. There is a lot of good people and i cant remember who we were talking about, but they need to know how. You cant write that and expect to to trend on social media. What we are seeing is the dumbed down version of what our teachers said. We have to stop and be smart about how we inject the message the training is very, very important. The social media for leaders abroad. Thank you, mr. Chairman and the republicanses here today. Thank you for your compelling testimony. We have been playing persecution and terror. People see the human face of refugees in this country. The presence here today is important. Hopefully many people will see that and be as moved as i know everybody on this panel has been moved by your testimony. Thank you for your courage to be here today. Doctor, i would like you to respond to the debate back and forth in the political realm as to whether or not we should call isis radical islam. When you hear someone calling it radical islam, do you think that is accurate with isis . I seem to be intent on getting all the difficult questions. There is no there is nothing wrong with labels because a lot of times we get stuck on labels. They are only what their definition is. If i use that term lot of people in my Community Get upset. People who look muslim and according to the koran, they are doing horrible things. They are terrorists for sure, but they are different than a neonazi group, for example. I dont have a problem with that. When people say that, congress or the white house or in the media, i understand what is meant. However i fear that that can easily slight into any form of radical islam. Thats where the fear is. We limit it to what its supposed to define. Thats a good question. When i was here, i was an advocate of these terms. I remember the late saudi king who died two years ago, he admonished for the first time and said i feel you are lazy and not speaking up. But i think when i moved to the uk last year, i felt there was a question of messenger. Its important to keep this in mind. This is the thing they did. They want to polarize the enemies and the society under control and they are getting people busy talking about what to call it and what not to call it. This organization is declaring war on islam and here it is to help muslims fight the organization. I appreciate that and the issue we face here in dealing with this threat deals with lone wolves who may be inspired by what they see in the ideology. Is it safe to say that they are the folk who is have little understands of islam. Is there a correlation and does that have to do with the recent shooting who claimed allegiance to isis and at some point hezbollah and he could address what may be going on in the minds of lone wolves and things we should be considering. They have little to no understanding of religion and thats the emergency. They have no training or a teacher and what they described earlier to take place. I think that thats definitely a fear for people surfing on line and finding a statement here and there and cutting and pasting them together and acting on it. Its a problem. More instructions will help in that regard. Senator baldwin . Thank you, mr. Chairman and i want to add my words of appreciation and thanks to our panel. Very, very powerful testimony. Thank you for being here. I wanted to start, i know the hearing is about the ideology of isis. It was called in the wake of a horrible tragedy in orlando that was at once a terroristinspired attack and also a hate crime in this case against members of the Lgbt Community. It was also a latin night at the club and its unclear whether that was a contributing to the targeting to the club on that particular night. When you were testifying, you shared with us that attacks against lgbt syrians preceded the formation of isil. That it was called for or col rated or perpetrated by the regime as well as militants who opposed the regime in syria. They too perpetrated violence against lgbt syrians. In the u. S. , violence, bullying, discrimination and intimidation against members of the Lgbt Community has been also. In the early days you could argue that it was sanctioned at one point in our nations history also. Things have changed. And i
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