Transcripts For CSPAN3 Norfolk 20240706

Thank you all for joining us today for this important hearing. Ranking member kavanaugh and i think all of the witnesses for joining us today, as well. Including our witnesses and from ohio and pennsylvania. We look forward to the testimony of each one of you. As you know, last month news broke about an environmental disaster caused by Norfolk Southern train to ram it near East Palestine, ohio. Less than a mile from the pennsylvania border. Less than a trained around it in the subsequent hazardous relief and led to the controlled burn and the evacuation of some 2000 people. This tragic incident is a reminder of the importance of following the golden rule in treating other people the way that we would like to be treated if they todays hearing is an opportunity to put ourselves in the shoes of those impacted by this disaster. Examining the Immediate Response, and to ensure long term accountability for the cleanup efforts. It is our responsibility in congress to answer, one, what went wrong. To, what do we need to do to fix it. What do we need to do to make sure that it never happens again. Every so often, environmental disaster and our country underscores our responsibility to protect Public Health and our environment. In 1969 i recall seeing News Coverage of a train spark that ignited the coyote river near cleveland, ohio. Just near the midshipman a year earlier. As our nation washed a river and golfed and flames it served as a wake up call to better protect communities from Hazardous Substances and to take responsibility for cleaning up environmental disasters. This movement helped lead to the creation of the Environmental Protection agency, which has a broad bipartisan support. Or it had private bipartisan support. My hope is in the aftermath of the disaster any palestine we can come together, once again, to identify solutions that will protect communities, improve safety, and restore trust. We must Work Together with colleagues in other relevant house and Senate Committees to strengthen our nations rail safety regulations, ensure compliance with them, and prevent future incidents like this one from happening again. We also need to make sure that the impact of communities receive the resources and support that they need. Our existing laws allow the epa to identify Norfolk Southern as a responsible party and began to hold the corporation responsible for the causes of the Emergency Response. As well as for the long term remediation of this area. We want to hear from our witnesses today, whether Norfolk Southern is meeting its obligations, including its moral obligation. In addition, we should note that responding to this disaster is a shared responsibility between Different Levels of government and Norfolk Southern. It is imperative for us to ensure that the agencies tasked with responding to disasters like this have the necessary resources that they need to ensure the safety of the air that people breathe, the water that they drink, and the soil that they used to grow crops. It is worth noting that the Biden Administration has been on the ground since day one. As we will hear today, the epa, working alongside state and local partners arrived in east houston within hours after the derailment. They have maintained a presence ever since. They have visited the area, im told, some three times already and there are expected to go back for more. In the wake of the chemical releases, these Government Mps that worked tirelessly to restore air and ground and Water Monitoring systems. As well as sample water in the air for toxins that and the removal of contaminated soar. Norfolk southern appears to have cooperated with these orders. They have agreed to pay for the environmental cleanup resulting from the derailment. However, the ultimate cause may exceed the immediate cleanup needs. Moreover, and apparent to the lack of transparency to the lack of Norfolk Southern transparency at least in the early days have left some members in the community battling and looking for answers. We are told that the companys failure to communicate directly includes information given to some versus who were under the impression that only one car would be vented and burned, rather than five. This miscommunication left First Responders gambling to ensure that Public Safety requirements of a much, much, larger plume. We also heard from some residents who were told it was safe to return to their homes, but who are still experiencing Ongoing Health problems. Other concerns remain such as loss of property values, long term impacts among our most vulnerable citizens including children and the elderly. As i said earlier, today presents us with the opportunity to learn from this experience address misinformation and gain a better understanding of the Long Term Plan to protect Public Health and address the environmental impacts of this disaster. Just as we witnessed in earlier environmental disaster in a high of 54 years ago that i alluded to, a new generation of americans is now waiting to see how their government responds today and in the days to come. Today may well prove to be a defining moment in their lives as it was in my own. Lets do what is right, not only for the people in East Palestine but for everyone who believes that those who transport potentially dangerous chemicals must take the necessary steps to protect our people and our one and only planet. With that, let me turn the Opening Statements by Ranking Member and my partner in so many ways, senator capito. Thank you thank you mister chairman. Thank you all for being here today. Im really pleased that we have the hearing and we have our fellow senators here as well as you said we are going to discuss the ongoing Environmental Response to a largescale Chemical Spill resulting from a Norfolk Southern trained around minden East Palestine, ohio. 14 miles north of the West Virginia border. Before we go any further i would like to take this opportunity to thank the Emergency Responders who were on the scene less than an hour after the incident was reported. They are continuing today to work diligently on our cleanup efforts. Thank you, also. Much these kinds of accidents or some of the toughest days for them. These men and women, these are their neighbors. In some cases the relatives. Certainly their hometown friends. It weighs on all of us here. This catastrophe upended the lives of thousands of our constituents and states representative today. The representatives in East Palestine including those in West Virginia deserve the chance to hear publicly from those involved in an affected by the cleanup efforts. They need to know what efforts have been made, the challenges that lay ahead, and what efforts can be used to improve the future responses from day one responded across all levels of government, as well as the private sector, have worked around the clock in monitoring in mitigation in keeping the public an environment safe. I appreciate the epa another relevant organizations from providing regular updates to congress on the status of the response. However, i want to convey to all of you that the public deserved a better level of transparency. Much much sooner. A month after the accident it is clear to me that the Risk Communication strategy fell short. In the immediate aftermath of the incident, impacting communities were clamoring for answers. While we are well aware that monitoring efforts and response planning needs to be sound. We need to understand why it took so long for the epa to get accurate data to the public. This is especially true when organizations like the ohio epa, and the ohio river valley sanitation commission, better known as or sanca, both represented on our panel today, managed to provide data and Safety Information to the public quicker. And even includes that they were distributing epa data faster than the agency itself was willing to. Not only with the public but also during briefings and conversations with the effect in congressional offices. In the absence of adequate transparency to the public, that just opens up a gap for social media, armchair citizen scientists, political pundits on both sides to fuel false narratives that have further undermines that Public Confidence in response to the derailment. With each week passing, the confusion seems to grow. Even after weeks of repeated air, soil, and Water Monitoring have showed levels of the implicating contaminants a magnitude well below the hst are and epa levels of concern in the air and water. The initial delays in messaging and response means the residents still do not trust these responses enough to feel safe. Trust is essential in these situations. That have been made worse by a lot of the misinformation we have seen. By pointing residents to an epa website filled with facts sheets and press releases. Risk communication needs to be done in a clear and compassionate, were laidable manner. Right there where it is happening. Why did it take weeks for the epa administrator to drink the water he repeatedly told residents was safe . Why did it take almost a month to establish a Response Center and go door to door to espousing families concerned. As a result of early missteps, i believe that we need to keep moving forward here. This committee muskets at the bottom of whether epa has some of the authorities for some of the action enough taken on the removal. And whether they are serving the best interests of our constituents. How will epa, approving every shovel full of dirt being moved, benefit safety expedite the process . These are questions im going to have. How and why is epa promoting contaminated soil and water from leaving the state of ohio for, and to qualify destruction facilities . How is that going to improve outcomes . Im concerned that least one of the ohio facilities epa is now activating for this purpose, has a history of Clean Air Act violations, and may not be able to sufficiently destroy contaminated soils in a way that assures communities may not be further impacted by emissions resulting from incompleteness the narration. So, the epa has been slow to respond to some of our offices inquiries on the use of firefighting foams and combatting the fire. Nor explaining how residents from those may be responsible for some of the reported pollution was made the rounds. The epa could have also made abundantly clear that Norfolk Southern would be completely liable and that no expense would be spared in the cleanup efforts, that is required by the law. Instead, it took weeks for the average american, not well versed in the nuances of which is the act that covers this, to receive that assurance. Mr. Shaw, from Norfolk Southern will be on our panel. I look forward to hearing from you on what Norfolk Southern is doing to make things right. As you know, as you stated in your statement, your company will pay for the harm that has been caused and is paying. Itll pay for the initial cleanup, and likely pick and win the losses from the myriad harms caused begin to come in. How much will be a matter for the courts. Culpability in this incident and the liabilities that will result are clearly defined in the statutes. And the liabilities for Norfolk Southern are among the broadest and stick tricked us in any federal law. Before existing laws, we must better understand what has gone wrong with the response so far and what can be done better in the future, but also what went right. So, to the residents of East Palestine and surrounding communities, your congress here is, you every american deserves to feel safe in their home and confident that the water that they drink and the air that they breathe is safe. When Something Like this happens, god forbid, they should also be able to trust the federal government will be quick, deliberate, transparent, and clear and their response, and the guilty parties will be held responsible. I believe the environmental law is on the book are up to the task. So, what has gone wrong, what has gone right . That is what were here to talk about today. Thank you. Thank you very much. Let me now recognize senator jeff markey, chairman of the subcommittee on safety, waste, management, and regulatory oversight, recognize him for his statement. , jeff we recognize. Thank you very much chairman carper and for todays hearing. As chairman of the subcommittee, its absolute critical we examine the impacts to Public Health and wellbeing of the people of East Palestine following the disastrous derailment of the Norfolk Southern Freight Train that was carrying tons of toxic and Hazardous Materials and certainly the impact coming from the plumes of smoke that burned for over two days. This tragedy demands accountability because future derailments will happen, and unless we learn the lessons of this incident, there will undoubtedly be more derailments, derailments with devastating impacts on additional communities. For years, my office has been hearing from oregonians who are terrified of the risk of trains rolling down the tracks in the middle their towns, full of toxic chemicals. I remember when the Union Pacific trained reeled in mosier, oregon in june 2016, spilling some 42,000 gallons of crude oil in front of a school, a massive fire, damage to the water and sewer systems, and the debris made their way into the columbia river. I remember the billowing tower of toxic black smoke that could be seen for miles and miles up and down the Columbia Gorge and an area blanketed in toxic ash. At that time, senator and i pushed for huge improvements in track maintenance, improvements in the brakes, improvements in the tank, improvements in the prepositioning of supplies to respond to disasters, and improvements and communications. But the progress was very limited. Since 2015, there have been 100 derailments of trains carrying Hazardous Materials. One per month. In this coming year, that will probably be another 12 at the space. As of 2017, around 1 million tons of Hazardous Materials transported by rail every day, and that was the last year the numbers were released. I suspect theyre even higher today because we have growing supplies of toxic chemicals, particularly related to the plastics industry. We know the danger posed by these chemicals, we know theyre going down the rails, there is the possibility of a disaster. Theres so much that can be done to limit the odds of disasters happening. That is our responsibility. We need to recognize that when a derailment occurs, and toxic chemicals, like are leaked, people are aware that these chemicals cause lymphoma, leukemia, cancer. And so, they are absolutely legitimately extremely concerned, residents of East Palestines are complaining about all sorts of health issues. So, lets have this hearing today, be an opportunity to examine not just the response, but how to prevent these derailments in the future. The type of investments that are required so that future communities are not terrorized by these developments that are happening at a pace of once per month. Thank you very much, mister chairman. For the opportunity to share those comments. Thank you so much. Im gonna recognize the subcommittee Ranking Member for his statement, senator you may begin. Thank you, mister chairman, i want to thank everyone, including our five panelists and senator brown, senator vance, and senator casey, for attending this hearing. The people of East Palestine have shown perseverance and bravery, during a time thats understandably a very anxious and upsetting time. In the aftermath of the derailment, the decision was made to burn hazardous chemicals, leaking from real cars, out of fear of explosion. Since then, residents have reported headaches, coughing, fatigue, irritation, pain, burning sensations on skin. People of East Palestine now for their health, despite the epa claiming that everything is okay. The public trust in the governments near record low, only 20 say they trust the government to do the right thing. After the last three years, there is no wonder that the residents are calling into question the response bureaucrats is getting. The mixed messaging from administration in the days and weeks after the tragedy has only added fuel to the fire, actions have consequences, both the secretary of transportation and the administrator of the epa, delaying their visit to East Palestine, says that when they got there, hey, it wasnt our problem, it is the Previous Administration and the regulation that caused this. Its time for everyone to take responsibility. In contrast, i applaud the timely on Ground Response efforts from the local residents and the First Responders. The people of ohio have truly come together to help neighbors in the time of need. And oklahoma, we call that the oklahoma standard. Moving forward todays hearing allows us and allows witnesses to have much needed clarity and assurance to the public. We need to know how to prevent tragedies like this from happening again. We need to know what caused it. There are serious questions that need to be addressed. Such as the states that talks quakers is being shipped to, how long the chemicals were in the cars, how the bearings were properly reinspected . Why were all five cars burned instead of just the one . Why the administration and north folk failed to provide accurate and timely information to local authorities. Finally, what are we gonna do about the town moving forward. The residents understandably do not feel safe, we need a plan to put their lives back together. I expect our witnesses to transparently discuss these issues so we can prevent accidents like this from occurring in the future. Leaders take responsibility, they do not point fingers and dodge responsibilities. The people of East Palestine need to see the administration and norfolk take responsibility and show results, i yield back. Thank you, thank you very much for that comment. Before we turn to our colleagues who join us for today, im gonna ask you now, if i could, to submit for the record, a statement on behalf of our colleague, senate john fetterman, of pennsylvania, who cannot be with us here today. From my colleagues, i would just like to call it a couple lines from mr. Fetterman, the southerner fettermans testimony. Heres what he said. Working with my colleagues across post a and party lines, people of pennsylvania and ohio, Norfolk Southern for the responsible damage theyve caused and prevent similar disasters from happening in the future. I specifically would like to thank my colleagues from ohio, senator and j. D. Vance are being great partners. With senator bob casey myself through this process. Senator futterman, i quote, my hope is that we answer this disaster caused by agree just negligence from Norfolk Southern with real policy solutions that will hold Norfolk Southern and other Similar Companies responsible while making American Family safer in the future. I believe the legislation introduced last week is a great step. I look forward to getting some answers today and continue to work with my colleagues to get pennsylvanians to the resources they need, that is his statement. We thank him for it. We now turn to our colleagues to join us here today, first we want to recognize senator bob casey, senator casey from pennsylvania, you are welcome to proceed when youre ready, please proceed. Thank you, chairman, carper, Ranking Member capito, and members of the committee, holding todays hearing, im grateful to provide some testimony. Im also grateful and running ahead of both my colleagues, senator brown, senator vance, because of my chairmanship of the aging committee, which is starting a hearing rather soon. I appreciate their indulgence. I do want to thank both senator brown, senator vance, and senator fetterman for working with us and others on this bill, representative deluzio of pennsylvania as well, worked on this in the house, i know if others. And i wanted to start from the pennsylvania side of this darlington township, pennsylvania, Beaver County, right on the border. As many of you know, the derailment occurred literally feet away from the pennsylvania border. And i know youll hear today from eric brewer, a director of Emergency Services and chief of Hazardous Materials, response from Beaver County. Im grateful for his testimony. I would just quote maybe three people. Thats all ill do in the interest of brevity. The first is police officer, dan federer, about his experiences on the ground that night. Im quoting him as a first responder, particularly as a police officer. We all know and understand the risks that come with our line of work. However, we usually know or have an idea of when something or someone can kill us. When i left my two boys and wife to respond to the, quote, hot zone. I was expecting to be informed of exactly what was on the train and the potential health hazards. To say i was scared of the night of the derailment is an understatement, unquote. Ive also heard from residents about their fear of Long Term Health impacts in the safety of their families and communities moving forward. Jenny santana of the darlington township said, and i quote, i want to know its safe to stay here. All of the people deserve honest answers, nobody is getting them. If it were your children and your childrens lives in question, how far away would be safe . Please hold them accountable and make them help us, unquote. Farmers in the region, ive heard, i know my colleagues have heard the same, theyre concerned as well, they want help from the department of agriculture, they want certainty that their crops and their livestock are safe and free from contamination, and that the food supply and their livelihoods are safe. Former in the township chair, mike karen, said, quote, we, along with countless other local and agriculture producers have years invested in telling our stories. And developing relationships with our customers. The stories of working in harmony with nature to produce a superior product, the story was ripped to pieces on the day of the derailment, its now our responsibility to do damage control for Norfolk Southerns negligence. Well absorbing revenue loss of canceled orders, the economics of our industry is emotionally driven. Emotions are now being driven by perception and lack of information. We need testing. We need factual information. We needed this yesterday, were still not seeing that response, unquote. These residents are scared, particularly the potential exposure that could lead to Health Impacts for themselves and families for years. We do have a response, at least for the future, we have a lot to work to do in the near future. The future has to be about passing the Railway Safety act that senator brown, senator vance, senator fetterman, and others, and i, are leading. Its bipartisan, that never happens around here in big bills, or rarely, i should say. It would be a good start by Norfolk Southern to tell us today, in addition to what theyre gonna do for the people of ohio and pennsylvania, tell us today that they support the bill. That would help. If a major rail company said, we support these reforms and will help you pass this bill. So, thats why i think people of both states deserve, mister chairman, thank you for this time, im grateful to be first in line. Thank you very much. Thank you very very much senator casey. Next were gonna hear from senator brown from ohio. Mister chairman, thank you, Ranking Member capito, thank you, senator merkley, senator, thank you all for your thoughtful reflections and comments. I want to recognize a highlands this morning at the ohio epa, has been onsite many times, including, i believe, every time ive been there, and the residents of East Palestine who made the trip, mothers who talked about what this means to their family. They represent all highlands in this tightknit town in columbian county, which once made 80 of the ceramics of this country, tableware, they produced 80 for the whole country in this community. They have seen, their jobs moved overseas where Companies Pay workers less. That has been the story far too many places in our state. Its a kind of community that is so often forgotten or exploited by corporate america. Now, these ohioans are worried about whether their water is safe to drink, the air is safe to breathe, whether their kids will get sick, whether their crops are contaminated, whether theyll still be able to do business and attract investment to the community. Like senator vance, and my visits to East Palestine, ive talked with residents, mayor conway, fire chief, business owners, parents, i have heard their fears for what this means for their town and fears over the future. All because a big corporation, Norfolk Southern, chose to invest much of its massive profits in making its executives and shareholders wealthy at the expense of ohio communities along its rail trucks. East palestine, and just a week ago, springfield. The company followed the wall street business model. Boost profit by cutting costs at all costs. The consequences for places like East Palestine be dammed. In ten years, no forks other not laminated 38 of its workforce. Think about it, in a decade, they cut north of a third of their jobs. Weve seen what the company did with their massive profits. Norfolk southern spent 3. 4 billion dollars on stock buybacks last year, planning to do even more this year. That is money that couldve gone to hiring inspectors. To putting more hot box detectors along its rail lines, to having more workers available to repair cars and repair trucks. Norfolk southerns profits have gone up an up and up, look what happened. The ntsb is conducting a special investigation in Norfolk Southern its culture, investigating five significant accidents since december of 2021, including three accidents that resulted in the death of a Norfolk Southern employee. If Norfolk Southern had paid a little more attention to safety, and a little less attention to its profits, it carried a little more about the highlands along its tracks, a little less about its executives and shareholders, these accidents would not have been as bad, or maybe not happened at all. Just this week in cleveland, Norfolk Southern conductor and blt union member was killed on the job. He was a proud father of a 16yearold son. It is Norfolk Southerns responsibility to keep its workers safe on the job, this company has failed to do its job over and over and over. When i talked with ohioans about what they want to see from this company in response to the Disaster Needs palestine, i hear two things. First, Norfolk Southern must pay the money for every cent of the cleanup, as youve all said, every water test, every hotel room, every bottled water, every hospital bill, if in ohio when comes down sick, if an ohioan is sick because of the contaminants. Next, week next, year for the next several years. We know this company can afford it, my colleague, senator vance, ninr how delegation members of both parties have come together to make these demands of Norfolk Southern. Today, ohioans expect to hire a Firm Commitment from this companys ceo, that it will pay whatever it costs for as long as it takes to make this community whole. Second, or highlands one assurances, i think you all do, this will not happen again, they have every right to be scared, on saturday evening, just a month after the companys Disaster Needs palestine, another Norfolk Southern train derailed in springfield, ohio. This time, the cars that derailed were not carrying hazardous chemicals, but other cars on that 200 plus car train were. The only thing that saved a highlands from another disaster was luck. We need more than that, thats why senator vance might come together to introduce our bipartisan royal safety act, to make trans safer as they go through community after community. Should not take a Train Derailment for elected officials to put partisanship aside and Work Together for the people who we serve, not corporations like Norfolk Southern, the Real Companies have spent years fighting every of the vote to strengthen rules to make our trains and our rail lines safer. A highlands are paying the price. This company is serious and its commitment to preventing more East Palestine and ohio across the country. I hope today mr. Jean and senator casey said so invite ugly, i hope today mr. Shaw will endorsed our comments as bipartisan plan. Senator vance and i come from different parties, different philosophies, but on this, we have come together for the people of our state, and i appreciate his work on this. The response to this crisis has been far too partisan, as senator mullin said. Today is an opportunity to change that. Senator vance and i are listening to the same ohioans in this community. We both made numerous trips there, people feel like they have no way to stand up to a company like Norfolk Southern and theyre worried about what will happen when the cameras pack up and leave that Columbia County community. These committees have been abandoned too many times before. My, job our job, its to hear their voice and to demand corporate accountability to bring this town back to the vibrant community we know that it can be again. Thank you, mister chair. Thank, you senator brown. Lastly, we want to recognize senator j. D. Vance, mr. Vance, you may begin. Great, thank you. So, i want to start by acknowledging people of East Palestine and the ohio epa has done a great job on this tragedy. I just want to say i think our leadership, our media, and our politicians were slow to respond to this crisis. In part because a certain segment of our leadership feels like the people of East Palestine are little out of style. They have the wrong politics, theyre little to world, maybe a little too white. I want to thank senator capito and senator carper, the chairman Ranking Member, that all of you are paying attention to those who are caring about this issue, and for showing leadership. I think the most Important Message to the people of East Palestine is that we will not forget about them in the months and years to come. I think this Committee Hearing reinforces that message. Its very personally meaningful for me to be here. I want to also talk about something that hasnt gotten enough attention, but i think its an important part of whats going on on the ground right now in East Palestine, which is the cleanup of the toxic chemicals that are in the ground and theyre still on the ground. Now, two weeks ago, i wouldve told you, and i said very publicly, i was frustrated with Norfolk Southern from allen shot on down to the refusal to dig up the Railroad Tracks and dig out the toxic chemicals, which is their responsibility to do. Im happy to report it appears that Norfolk Southern has finally started to do the cleanup in earnest. Now, the epa is making it harder to get the materials out of ohio in the first place into properly licensed facilities. Right now, as we speak, there are piles of dirt accumulating East Palestine, piles of dirt filled with toxic chemicals that have not been moved out of the state in the week. What happens if it rains . What happens if the very toxic dirt that we just dug out of the ground begins to seep back into the ground, causing problems for the air and water for the residents of East Palestine . We need leadership, we need the epa to get on the ground and aggressively get this stuff out of East Palestine into properly licensed facilities. Its maybe the most important and most pressing thing thats confronting the community of East Palestine today. Again, im thinking an on her leadership on that particular issue. After the cleanup, or focus on the cleanup now, justifiably so, but after the cleanup, we need to turn to how to prevent this from happening, or at least how to make it less likely. Im a realist, i recognize they are always gonna have accidents, i think that we can make them less likely. I think importantly, we can give our First Responders proper notice when responding to these developments when they happen. Its ridiculous that firefighters and local officials dont know that hazardous chemicals are in their community, coming through their community. And East Palestine, you had a community of largely volunteer firefighters who are responding to a terrible crisis, toxic burning chemicals without knowing what was on them. Its one of the things the legislation that senator brown, senator casey, and senator fetterman and i worked on together. And i thank them for their work on that issue. I want to talk, i want to leave the committee with a couple of additional thoughts here. I am a republican. Im a pretty conservative republican. I worry that there has been a movement in my party and in my movement in response to the legislation i proposed that would not hold Norfolk Southern or the Rail Industry accountable. I want to be explicit about that. Now, im not talking about returning, this bill was not returning to the days of rate setting, the 19 80s Level Airline and trill regulation, i think it is good for consumers and good for the industry. But that doesnt mean you cannot have reasonable Public Safety enhancements in response to what happened in East Palestine. Now, ive talked a number of my republican colleagues, and nearly everybody has dull incomplete good faith, whether they like the bill or have concerns about it. And these comments are not directed at them. Who they are directed that is a particular slice of people who seem to think that any Public Safety enhancements for the Rail Industry is somehow a violation of the free market. Well, if you look at this in the strain whats happening in the last 30 years, that argument is a farce. This is an industry that enjoys special subsidies that almost no industry enjoys. This is an industry that enjoys special legal that almost no industry enjoys. This is an industry that just three months ago had the federal government come in and save them from a labor dispute. It is effectively a bailout. Now, the claiming, before the senate in the house that are reasonable regulation, are reasonable legislation is somehow a violation of the free market. Well, pot, meet the cattle, that doesnt make announces sense. You cannot claim special government privileges, you cannot ask the government to bailey out and then resist basic Public Safety. Now, let me just say this, youve heard a lot of talk for my fellow republicans. I think the top is very justified, we are the party of working people in this country. Theres been a big political realignments country of the last 30 years. A political realignment that ive benefited from. Where the party of firefighters. Of police officers. The people who go to work, pay their taxes, fire countries wars, and keep our communities safe. We are proud of that, we should be proud of that on the republican party. Now, were faced with a choice. With this legislation and how we respond to this crisis, do we do the bidding of a massive industry that is in bed with Big Government . Or do we do the bidding of the people who elected us to the senate into the congress in the first place . I believe that where the party of working people. It is time to be the party of working people. We have a choice, are we for big business and Big Government . Or are we for the people of East Palestine . It is the time for choosing. Lets make the right one. Thank you very very much, senator vance. Thank you, senator vance. My colleagues on this committee have heard me say more than a few times, Bipartisan Solutions are lasting solutions. Im encouraged that the bipartisan spirit here, i would urge it to continue to grow and try to rekindle support for it as well. With that having been said, were gonna recognize our next panel of witnesses. I want to call the second panel of witnesses to come forward. First witness will be mr. Shaw. In addition to mr. Shaw, well be hearing from the regional administer of region five, the Environmental Protection agency, debra shore. Good morning, one at all. I think ive had a chance to welcome individually and personally. We appreciate very much not only a presence here, but you willingness to share your thoughts and ideas with us. As we try to make right a terrible wrong, we are gonna turn our first witness, alan shaw, we appreciate the time you spent with me on the phone earlier this week. Mr. Shaw, you may begin your testimony at this time. Thank you. Welcome. Good morning, chairman carper, Ranking Member capito, and distinguished members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today. My name is alan shaw, i have been president and ceo of Norfolk Southern since may of 2022. I want to begin today by expressing how deeply sorry i am for the impact of this derailment has had on the residents of East Palestine and the surrounding communities. Ive been East Palestine many times over the past month, ive talked with the leaders, the business owners, the school officials, the clergy, and others throughout the community. They have shared their stories and their concerns about the health of their families and the future of the community they love. I am determined to make this right. Norfolk will clean the site safely, thoroughly, and with urgency. You have my personal commitment. Norfolk southern will get the job done and help East Palestine thrive. At the direction of an in collaboration with the u. S. Epa, state and local agencies. We are developing and implementing near and longer term cleanup activities. Air and Water Monitoring have been in place continuously since the accident. And to date, it consistently indicated that the air safe to breathe and the water is safe to drink. In terms of community support, we have announced direct investments of over 21 million. Weve provided support to more than 4400 families through Norfolk Southerns Family Assistance Center. We established a 1 Million Dollar Fund Available immediately to Community Leaders who identify where donations can do the most good for palestine. We committed seven point 5 million to pennsylvania for Community Relief fund. We are reimbursing pennsylvania Emergency Responders and health and environmental agencies for costs related to the development. All of this is just a down payment. We recently signed a lease for more permanent space in these palestine. I asked one of our frontline rail workers who lives in his policy and take on a new role as a fulltime liaison, reporting directly to my office. He is advocating for the community in my office and overseeing distribution of another 1 million. We will be in the community for as long as it takes. To be clear, there are no Strings Attached to our assistance. If residents have a concern, we want them to come talk to us. Our website provides the latest information and details on how to reach us. We have been cooperating fully with the ntsbs investigation into the cause of the derailment. The preliminary report found the Norfolk Southern crew is operated train below the speed limit and an improved manner. Yet, it is clear, the safety mechanisms in place were not enough. As the ntsb continues its work, we are not waiting to act. Shortly after the derailment, i instructed my team to look at steps we could take to improve safety immediately. We have announced a number of initiatives to do just that. These steps are just a star. We look forward to working with policy makers and industry others. Were also going to make our Safety Culture the best in the industry. The events of the last month are not who we are as a company. When i began my tenure as ceo ten months ago, i spent hours in crude rooms all over our 22 state network. Thanking our frontline rail workers and asking for their advice. They are proud of the important work they do for the u. S. Economy, and they take safety seriously. Im gonna make sure theyve got the right training, the right processes, the right equipment, and the right technology. You have my commitment on that. Since becoming ceo, i have dedicated our company to charting a new course in the industry. I intend to continue working with industry stakeholders, including rail car owners, shippers, and other workers. To make industry wide safety improvements. It is gonna take all of us and Norfolk Southern is eager to lead that effort. Today, i am proud to represent more than 19,700 Norfolk Southern employees who work every day to offer a safe and efficient means of transporting goods to businesses and families across our great country. When Norfolk Southern unsuccessful, it is because our craft railroaders are getting the job done for our customers and the u. S. Economy. Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you today. I look forward to your questions. Mr. Shaw, thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you for that statement. Again, for the time you spent with me on the phone recently. Next, we are pleased to welcome debra shore, the regional administer for region five environment Environmental Protection agency. Miss sure, you are welcome to begin. Some things have been suggested that maybe the epa maybe has not done things as well as they couldve done, shouldve done. My sense is that epa was on the scene within hours of the derailment. Not only have youve been there, but we have seen our administrator, michael weekend, be there. He will be there, again. I important that i commend you for that. We need for you to stay on the job right on the scene. So thank you. You are recognized. Thank you, chairman carper. Ranking member capito members of the committee to invite me here today in the opportunity to test your questions. I want to start by affirming that epas mission is to protect human health in the environment so that all communities across america have clean air, clean land and clean water. The health and safety of those who have been affected by the Norfolk Southern trained to ram it is a top priority for me, and for the epa. That is why a soon as epa was notified of the trained around meant on friday, february 3rd, epa personnel were on site in East Palestine within hours to support our state and local partners who were in the league for Emergency Response effort. Every day since epa has been boots on the ground, working in a bipartisan manner across all levels of government to help this community. I have, personally, been an East Palestine living to residents and have heard how devastating this to round it has been. They are understandably worried, some are scared. Every time a train whistle blows, there are reminded of the trauma inflicted upon them by Norfolk Southern. That is why we have used one of the epas most powerful enforcement tools to hold Norfolk Southern accountable and to require the company to clean up the mess that it made. I want to be abundantly clear. The residents in the greater East Palestine community are not alone. Epa is with them. We will continue to be with them for as long as it takes. Since the derailment epa has been leading robust air quality testing using stateoftheart technology and in around East Palestine. We are currently conducting 24 7 air monitoring at 21 stations throughout the community. I am pleased to refute that since the fire with distinguish on february 8th, epa monitors have not detected any volatile organic compounds above levels of health concerns. While epa is can we also recognize that the people of East Palestine still question the health and safety of their community and their loved ones. In response, epa has been assisting with indoor air screenings for homes through voluntary programs offered to residents to combine them with information and help restore the peace of mind. As of march 4th, approximately 600 homes have been screened through this program. No detections of vinyl chloride or Hydrogen Chloride have been identified. On the water side, ohio epa, in partnership with the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection, local Health Agencies and Public Health Water Systems continue to lead Water Sampling efforts with the epa providing support what ive described so far summarizes epas ongoing efforts to protect the health and safety of those living in East Palestine. As well as in the surrounding areas of ohio and pennsylvania in the aftermath of this disaster. Now let me turn to how epa is holding Norfolk Southern accountable. On february 21st, we issued a unilateral order to Norfolk Southern which included a number of directives. Cleaning up contaminated water and soil resources. To attend and participate in Public Meetings at the epas request and post information online. To pay for epa the cost for work performed under this epas overseeing Norfolk Southern cleanup work to ensure that it is done to epa specifications. The work plans will outline all steps necessary to clean up the environment with hitchcock but the jury will be. Most importantly, if the Company Fails to complete any of the peony ordered actions, the epa will immediately step in, conducting necessary work, and then forced Norfolk Southern to pay triple the cost. Epas order holds Norfolk Southern accountable and facilitates in the transition in Multi Agency Response phase. To a longer cleanup phrase. To my 11 days been on the ground in these palestine i have learned that it is a proud and resign community. Those that live there, and in the surrounding communities, have roots to go back generations we owe it to these people to restore these beautiful communities to the special places we know that they hold dear. That is exactly what epas working to accomplish. All are continuing to work hand in hand with our partners at the local state and federal levels. Again, thank you for inviting me here today. I look forward to the dialogue and answering your questions. Miss shore, thank you so much and thanks to your colleagues at epa for being there, right away, on site. And for staying there right through to even today. Keep it up. Everything i do, i know i can do better. I think that is true, always. I would say lets find ways to do things even better Going Forward, thanks. And vogel, why dont you start off your testimony by answering a question. Explain to folks who might be watching this. Why do we have region epa and ohio epa. Why dont you take it and explain. That it wont count against time. Thank, you chairman. Ohio epa is the ohio agency dedicated to protecting human health and the environment. Similar to the work of the u. S. Epa, which covers a whole nation. Thank you. Go right ahead. We are delighted to hear you. Please proceed. Good morning chairman carper, Ranking Member capito and members of the committee. My name is and vogel, director of the ohio Environmental Protection agency. On behalf of governor dewine, Lieutenant Governor houston, and a talented team that i am privileged to represent at the ohio representative Environmental Protection agency. Our ongoing efforts to protect human health and the environment and East Palestine. A community that ive called home for the past month. Governor dewine has been to the village regularly to reassure the community that while this is Norfolk Southerns train, they are rack, and their mess, the entire apparatus of State Government has been mobilized to assist as East Palestine begins to recover from this traumatic experience. More than a dozen cabinet officials have spent time and East Palestine. Assessing short and long term needs, answering questions, and standing up support operations, such as the Free Health Clinic in town. Ohio epa has a dedicated team of experts and Emergency Response team with a combined 150 years of experience in environmental mercy management. They responded to the derailment within one hour being notified by the railroad. By 12 25 a. M. , on february 4th, ohio epa was on the scene and immediately began the work of containing the release of chemicals into the nearby sulphurous on. We have worked around the clock since that day to oversee removal of the gross contamination from the creeks and the immediate derailment area. Ohio epas oversight also includes ensuring the safety of residents or two of the municipal water system need malice dean. In the days immediately after the derailment, now continuing on a weekly basis, the municipal wells were tested for a broad array of chemicals. All lab courts have indicated that the Public Water System is safe. There have been no detections of contamination related to the derailment. Im happy to answer any questions you have about a highly epas response. I want to make sure that each of you here, along with the village of palestine, is that the commitment to stay in East Palestine for as long as it takes are not empty words. We live there. The work of ohio in pa to restore the environment and East Palestine is just beginning the emergency phase will continue as long as obvious, known contamination remains for example we have a large presence on the ground right now as contaminated soil under the tracks is excavated. The investigation phase is also underway our oversight of Norfolk Southerns work plans, along with our federal partners, for things like soil testing track removal and replacement for Water Sampling will make sure that no folks southerners taking all the right steps to remediate and protect East Palestine for potential long term hazards. We have installed monitoring wells at the side of the derailment to test your potential contamination to groundwater. Now, and in the future. We have installed sentinel wells for long term sampling of groundwater. This is part of a Early Detection system that will tell us if contamination is approaching the municipal well field. We will test municipal Water Systems on a weekly basis. We will do that using our own labs. We will continue to be 100 transparent, sharing complete lab results immediately. We will attend open houses, town halls, and be present in the community. Answering questions and refuting misinformation with facts. The data that we collect from each sample, each test, each observation, informs the next step that we will take along the path towards long term full remediation. You and your constituents have many of the same questions that i hear from residents of East Palestine every day. How long we test the water . How long until the fish come back . Can i play in the yard and eat out of my garden . How or when will we know that the damage to our villages worse than we thought, or even, irreparable . These are legitimate questions. I am committed to finding answers. I can promise East Palestine that governor dewine, his administration, and the whole team at the ohio pa will not stop until the science definitively shows that the residents of East Palestine are safe in their community. Again, i thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I look forward to answer your questions. Please convey our best to mike dewine who used to serve here. Governors and congressman together, as well. For some people watching, joining us from across the country, we you may be wondering why we havent epa region three affiliate. The epa has ten regions that they operate in that they are responsible for. One of them is here represented today for ohio. The delaware and West Virginia are region three. And pennsylvania, the three of us. All in region three. Every state has a state agency that focuses on Environmental Protection. Delaware its the department of Natural Resources environmental control. Ohio, where i spent a lot of years my life as a kid, the epa of ohio. We are delighted that you are here. Representing the governor and the state. Next, we will hear from mr. Richard harrison. The executive director and chief engineer for the Ohio River Valley Water Sanitation Commission im not real big on acronyms. So mr. Harrison, before you start your testimony, what is sanco . Anyone catches up with. Okay, i understand that. We are an interest a commission, sir. We represent eight states within the ohio river basin. We work on protecting the water quality, the water uses, of the interstate waters of the basin. Weve been here about 75 years doing the great work. Have youve been there for although 75 . Probably not. Almost. No, no. [laughs] thank you. Go right ahead, mr. Harrison. Thank. You good morning chairman carper, Ranking Member capito, and members of the committee. My name is richard harrison, member of the Ohio River Valley Water Sanitation Commission no one has or sanco. We are carried out by eight states illinois, indiana, kentucky, ohio, virginia, and West Virginia. With approval by the United States congress and participation by the federal government. Since its inception in 1948, or cinco has work to improve the quality of the river of the ohio river basin. I appreciate the opportunity to testify before the committee today as the Exceptional Partnership as the the supply of water to the millions of customers that rely on them for safe Drinking Water. Orsancos ability to excel in this type of response is only responsible to the combined effort of a partners, including the ohio river Drinking Water community. Our Member States and governors, the United States epa, the United States army corps of engineers, and other federal partners. I must highlight Ohio Governor dewine, the ohio Environmental Protection agency, in the region five for their on site leadership in this particular response. The greater waterworks, who provided critical Laboratory Analysis for critical samples under fourhour basis. Orsanco has an Extraordinary Team 22 professionals in a total in no budget of three point 9 million this is below. Our 2003 budget level. Im very proud of the strong value our Organization Provides to our many partners. Most recently demonstrated through our successful response to the diluted Chemical Spill remnant to this event that hes reached the ohio river. The foundation of our chemical response are staff coordination with our partners. Utilizing orsancos organic detection system including 16 Scientific Laboratory instruments owned and operated by orsanco. Then, on scene operated by the ohio river Drinking Water utilities themselves. This system provided the Early Warning that chemicals from the derailment had reached the ohio river. The odious subsequently provided 40,000 screening that will test results for 30 volatile organic chemicals over 130 special samples of the ohio river sample was collected by scientists and analyzed by the greater river waterworks laboratory. The diluted spill revenants was trapped by orsancos computer model and confirmed by daily sampling completed by our scientists. This information proved invaluable to our partners. To a full hexagonal and ethylhexyl acrylate were detected from little beaver creek, the tributary below East Palestine that feeds the ohio river near the ohio river and pennsylvania border. As a result, we will able to calibrate six several more calibrated odious stations in search of these chemicals that may be found in the remnants the agency of top take substances and registry, provided invaluable timely Additional Health for guidance and screening levels for these chemicals to determine what level might pose a health risk to finish Drinking Water. The screening levels were 560 parts per billion. For ethylhexyl acrylate and 200 parts per billion for a full hexagonal. The highest levels with four point 3. 4 billion. The analysis results rather chemicals were lower than 1. 4 billion. The fdr Health Greening level and our ods analysis provided the scientific conclusion that there were no higher level detection levels reaching any level Public Health. This information is tabulated, posted on orsancos website and communicated to the company. Orsancos level to provide this high level of Emergency Response is reliant on us receiving Adequate Funding to the 2024 if the recent accident has taught us anything, it is that we depend on the system and are capable staff and partners to respond to threats to drink water supply. The current ods equipment was last funded by congress in 2009. Any replacement, at a price of the cost of four point 9 million. In short orsanco provided the level of service that our customers that have depended on, without this federal investment this will be a challenge in the future. Let me thank the committee, once again, for the opportunity to testify today. Thank you. Mr. Harris, our thanks to you and everyone at orsanco for your testimony today. For being with us. Keep on it, please. Eric brewer, welcome. I understand you serve as director and chief of Hazardous Materials response for Beaver County department of Emergency Services. Not that far from East Palestine. Senator capito already mentioned, giving a shout out to the first sponsors who turned out and, as a former governor who spent a lot of time with disasters of our own, in the state of delaware we know how important the work of you First Responders are. We are so grateful for your therapist. Peas can gray our gratitude. And record same in, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to speak before you in reference to the emergency in East Palestine and its direct defenceman on the residents of beavertown mensa pena. I am eric brewer director of urgency services for Beaver County and the appointed Emergency Management tornadoes all as a chief of the have this materials response team. Ive been with the department for 20 years. Speaking as a member of the community, as well as a first fonder who is on the scene of the drama. My family has been at the county for more than 30 years. Im born and raised and continue to resign there. I am part of the community. Im not an expert on community, water quality. A rare cars. Beaver county is located in southwest pennsylvania. Approximately one friday, february, third at around 9 50 pm i was contacted by Emergency Management director of columbia in ohio. She was on route to a trained relic towards the county line and the hackman team. 18 find apartment teams also responded to assist. We arrived at the command post attention 15 which would set up at the lake oil gas station. A fire among silverware cars our mission was to obtain the research the contents of the tank cars. Norfolk southern has had personnel and other contrary to the remnants scene shortly after 11 pm. At around midnight after research of the contents it was decided to shut down fire operations and move firefighters out of the immediate area. To let the tank cars burned. This is not an unusual decision. The decision, this decision was made primarily by Norfolk Southern coordinators as well as a contractor based on the initial the one mile shelter in place from an intersection just leased this but the one mile radius just into beaver pound me. This fire eventually burned out sunday morning. Sunday evening we received a call from the ema it advised us that the Railroad Officials were concerned about one of the tank are starting to heat up. There is a possibility of an explosion. We should consider one mile evacuation. Our officials notified us that the one mile radius would not be from the leak oil address. This would add additional residents from Beaver County in the one mile evacuation zone. Darlington township officials went door to door, as well as using a mass notification system to advise the residents as well that one mile evacuation. It was stress that this was a one mile recommendation we cannot force residents from their home. Residents could not be those who chose to leave during the recreation. Let me be clear this was not the case in pennsylvania. This is not a mandatory evacuation. Monday morning we assembled Emergency Activation Center in East Palestine. We learned that Norfolk Southern wanted to do a controlled detonation of the ten car. We were sure that this was the safest way to mitigate the problem. During one of those planning meetings we learned from Norfolk Southern that they wanted to do a controlled detonation on five of the tankers, rather than just the one. This change the entire plan, as it would now impact a much larger area. This confusion was probably a result of a lack of communication from Norfolk Southern. In fact, they were present during these planning meetings. The governors of ohio and pennsylvania made it clear to Norfolk Southern that they needed to communicate better. After more planning, the control detonation eventually controlled around 4 40 pm. Most of the area concerning beaver counteris rural and uses about what. Are there not municipal water system in that area. Since the monday the control of the nations we feel the thousands of calls from concerned citizens wanted to know if they can drink the water, feed their livestock, and if the air is good. I continue to get ask how preparedness is for trainer. Ellen and norfolk is responsible for several phases, one of those is preparedness. The goal preparedness is to lessen the impact of disaster, not or not prevent. It doesnt advance i said, there will continue to be disaster. However, we can lessen the impact of preparedness. It should not take an emergency such as this, i hope that this is an impetus abettor supports of Emergency Management programs. Most Emergency Management programs across the country have outdated laws are under and understaffed. In closing this was a train wreck. There was not a script for this. There was not a binder conveniently labeled, train wreck. Everyone needs to know that we did the best we could with the information we had. In the end, no responders were killed or injured during the response. My message has been consistent. I want the residents i bought two or fever county to be treated the same as East Palestine. The cost of this emergency should not be a burden to the tank fairs and be recounty or any of the local municipalities. Thank you. Mr. Brewer, thank you. Thanks again to you. And the good people throughout this country who were willing to get up in the northern eye and risk their last with the rest of us. Thank you very much. Im going to ask some questions now. Senator capito will follow with her questions. We will hear from some of our other colleagues. I dont ask a lot of yes or no questions, mr. Shaw. I will ask a few and ask you to answer them. Keep it short. Answer yes or no, if you can. When i think about the trained around it and chemical disaster that continues to impact the people of East Palestine and surrounding communities and cannot help but think what if this happened in my neighborhood to my own family. We have fairly heavy Freight Train travel throughout northern delaware or communities are used to seeing this trains move throughout our state. What if they were burning toxic trains outside of our window and our community . Damaging our air, our water, possibly making my family in our neighbors sick. What if this disaster lowered the value of our home, our business . I worked my whole life to build to be honest, i would be furious. I think most of us would be. We would want to make sure that Norfolk Southern took action to make sure our communities and our families were hole. My first question to you, a simple yes or no question. Ive got three of them. I think these americans who if they were in this room they would ask a lot of these same questions. If they had this experience in their town. Yes or no, will you commit Norfolk Southern will be there for as long as it takes to make East Palestine, a high oh, darlington township in pennsylvania, and the surrounding communities hole from this disaster . Yes or no. Senator, thank you for that question. I understand theyre concerned. It is the same concern that is shared with me but and the residents of East Palestine, darlington township. I am terribly sorry for the impact that this derailment has had on the folks of that community. Yes, it is my personal commitment, and Norfolk Southerns commitment, that we are going to be there for as long as it takes to help East Palestine thrive and recover. That is my personal commitment. I take that at the yes. Thank. You that was the answer i was looking for. Next question, will you commit that Norfolk Southern will compensate the people of these communities for possible long term medical cost and economic damages resulting from this disaster . Yes or no, please. Senator, we are committed to doing what is right for the folks of East Palestine in the community. It has been my personal commitment since the day after this happen. I pulled my Team Together and i told my team, we are going to do more than less with the environment to clean up. We were going to do more than last with the citizens of East Palestine. My third question is yes or no, will you commit to paying for long term medical testing for people in the Impact Community to ensure that anyone with no nurses picked exposure to dangerous communities duties disaster is monitor for Adverse Health effects . Yes or no. Senator, im committed to doing what is right. You know, we are going to be there today, tomorrow, a year from now, five years from now, ten years from now. I have told the community that. I have been there in person. I looked into their eyes. Ive heard their concerns. I have been in their family rooms. I am committed to that community. So it is Norfolk Southern. All right. Thank you for that. My second question would be for administrator shore. I would like to commend the epa and its employees and leadership for being in East Palestine. At least for the rank and file to be there within hours of the accident, and for the hard work that you and others have been doing every day since then to get the contamination cleaned up. I also commend the epa for continuing to listen and respond to the committees concerns, including adapting and monitoring sampling to ensure that any adverse environmental impacts and possible significant Health Effects from this disaster are known and addressed. Administer reagans level of personal ball meant, i believe, is unprecedented of anything ive seen in my experience. My question, i think i know theyre answer but i will ask you the same thing i asked mr. Shaw, that is to you commit the epa will be there for as long as it takes to protect the Public Health and environment of the impact to communities . Thank you, senator carper. Yes. Epa is committed to continue to work with our partners in the community. And make sure that they have the support that they need and deserve. Epa will be on the ground as long as it takes. Thank you. My last question, director vogel to you, and to mr. Brewer. Before this hearing i had the opportunity to speak with several officials and to plot a response including governors of ohio and pennsylvania. Governor. Shapiro shared with me a letter that he was sent to Norfolk Southern in 2023. Norfolk southern did not communicate well with state or local agencies in the early days of the response which led to confusion and concern for safely removing the chemicals that were not adequately considered. In your experience, to do receive the information that you need for Norfolk Southern to adequately make decisions in protecting Public Health and safety. Are there any help spawning in the first 72 hours of the derailment which may have contributed to distrust within the impact communities. If so didnt offer in Southern Drive any satisfaction or information gap since that time . Miss vogel . Mister chairman, thank you for your question. I do believe there were quite a few gaps in communication and missteps in the very early hours following the dram in. I believe that the gaps in communication have including the teams working together on the ground today. Yes, things could have been handled better in the beginning hours. Mr. Brewer, same question. Whether any communication from Norfolk Southern. In the first 72 hours or so from the derailment that may have contributed to the stress that may have impacted the communities . Has Norfolk Southern satisfactorily address the communication gap since that time . Thank you. The boots on the ground crews were great to work with. It seems as bosses are management gets there that is where the communication failure start. That is probably why we are here today. The decision to go from the one tank car to the five with jawdropping. That, just because of the impact that it had, since then we have seen to get better though senator capito, you are recognized for your questions. Thank you. Thank you all for being here. Thank you all for your testimony. It is my understanding, this is sort of a table sitting question here, not the epa, not the state, not Norfolk Southern has been making these cleanup decisions in a vacuum. Instead a unified command group of these entities and experts have all had input into these major decisions. For everyone who is here, can i have a show of hands or who organization is represented in this unified command group . Do you have a comment. We used to be, up until last week or so. Ema is involved. Thank you. Then, is an affair assessment that i made forward that the decision are not made individually, theyre made by the unify command . You can shake your heads yes, if you dont you can disagree. All right. Thank you. So, i mentioned in my Opening Statement i want to go right to the epa, to director shore. Thank you for being on the ground, early. I commend you in my Opening Statement. I understand this maybe something we get into a little bit later. Region five, region three, within 1000 feet of pennsylvania . I am concerned now about something senator vance talked about. This is the Hazardous Waste disposal that we are seeing right now. Apparently there are piles and piles of it sitting there right now. Not moving. I understand that facilities in michigan in texas that receive ways from East Palestine and some of the most qualified in the entire country. The u. S. Ecology facility in michigan, for instance, had already accepted 360 tons of soil and tons of liquid and full compliance with the permits. The epa has stopped, they have failed to give us an answer on what Legal Authority you used to stop those trucks at the gates of the facility that had already been accepting large volumes of waste. You said in your statement that this is great news. It means the cleanup can continue at a rapid pace. If it is still sitting there i would say that that is a contrarian kind of i mean, that is an opposition of what we are seeing. All shipments of contaminated soil has been suspended on site to test for dioxins. Something that should have possibly been done weeks ago. There is an insistence, i think, on the dioxin concerns not as severe as what now you are going back and testing. Let me be clear it goes through this whole mixed message of what is going on here. Help me understand why you are delaying this cleanup effort. Why the piles are still piling up. Anytime you get there it disturbs, not just the chemicals, but it brings the odor. Here comes the lack of trust right back down onto the community. Could you say could you help me with this. Is it true that most of the remaining contaminated soil is still sitting there in these palestine . When are you going to get it out of . There where are you going to take it . I know you are doing it, Norfolk Southern is doing it. Go ahead. Senator, capito, thank you for that. First i would like to thank you for acknowledging the perot efforts of all the Emergency Responders who were on the scene within hours, including epa on scene coordinators from both region three and region five. I have them at the front of mind every day. Thank you for acknowledging their efforts. Let me report that waist is moving offsite, even as recently as yesterday. Where is it going . Where is it going . To a number of facilities that are epa approved. That have the capacity to receive the waste. That have contract with Norfolk Southern. That have gone through our Due Diligence and a compliance view which is necessary once federal epa issued the order and assumed authority for the cleanup work from the ohio epa. We did pause to conduct that necessary Due Diligence in compliance view. All of the facilities fall under the regulations. Norfolk engages facilities wherever they may lead to except solid and liquid waste. It is the epas responsibility to ensure the safeguards are in place and loading transport and on transport to make sure that they are compliant with our regulations. And to make sure that they have the capacity to take the waist. I can share the good news with you that indiana requested dioxin testing came back yesterday. There are very low levels. We expect waste to be moving, perhaps as soon as today, to other facilities. No option is off the table. I would like to see a list of the facilities. I would also like, very quickly, why did you wait a month before you started to move or the dioxin testing when the community was asking for this . Was that a decision that you made early on . That it wasnt critical . Or, how was that decision made . Senator capito, our air monitoring was searching for primary indicators such as flaws jean and Hydrogen Chloride immediately and after the burn. We detected very low levels which very quickly went down to nondetect. Without the primary indicators, it was a very low probability that dioxins wouldve been created. They are secondary byproducts of the burning of hundred chloride. We were listening to the community. They expressed significant concerns about dioxins. Norfolk southern has submitted a Soil Sampling plan. It has undergone the review by the unified command. Our folks will be out sampling soils for dioxins. There is a meeting for agricultural representatives this afternoon. The air issue is, obviously, 30 days lay it a little bit well past the time when the intensity might have been felt more. Thank you for your answers thank you. Thank you for those answers. I will now take a couple minutes to ask a few questions that were submitted by senator fetterman. The first question would be a response in regard to Railway Safety. It has been used by several of our colleagues who have spoken earlier. My first question is to mr. Shaw. In light of the dram it and East Palestine and the subsequent to ram it and train crash that both happened in the last week. National Transportation Safety board and the federal Railroad Administration had both asked to conduct investigations into the safety of your company. The u. S. Department of transportation has called on Norfolk Southern to act urgently to improve your focus on safety initially i along with senator brown casey and vance submitted a bill that common sense message to improve safety. Senator fettermans question is this what do you commit to committing to the bipartisan safety act needed to restore the Publics Trust in your safety . Senator. Thank you for that question. We are committed to the legislative intent to make rail safer. Norfolk southern runs a safe railroad. It is my commitment to improve that safety and make our Safety Culture the best in the industry. Just last year to remnants on Norfolk Southern where the lowest they had been in the last ten years. Our personal injury rate is among so that was in the industry. As you and i spoke about yesterday, we can always get better that. Its my intent. Continue to invest and continue to approve. A followup from senator fetterman, he would like for me to ask that you dont support the bill in its entirety. Are there specific provisions of the Bipartisan Railroad Safety act that Norfolk Southern could support . Senator, there are a number of provisions that we would absolutely support. The Rail Industry has been in support of tighter tank are standards for a number of years. I understand that that is in the bill. We support more training and more funding for First Responders. We support and enhanced wayside to tact or technology. In fact, Norfolk Southern is leading the industry in a number of ways. You saw just this week a six point safety plan that included a number of issues which we are in fomenting immediately to improve safety including installing more wayside to tech to. Heres the first one was unsolved yesterday outside of East Palestine. Thank you. Another question for you, mr. John. One more question from senator fetterman. His staff has heard from local officials in darlington township that Norfolk Southern began giving inconvenience stipends to individuals within East Palestine zip code. After requests from darlington Beaver County, senator fetterman along with senator casey along with congressman deluzio, Norfolk Southern extended the inconvenience stipend. It is still not clear how that area is covered. Senator fenton asked if you could please clarify whether pennsylvanians who left their homes after the durant are entitled to this Financial Assistance from Norfolk Southern . Thank you for that question. I am, again, terribly sorry for the impact and the disruption that this has had on the local communities. I am proud of the fact that Norfolk Southern had established a Family Assistance Center within 24 hours of the derailment. We have assisted well over 4400 families, including families from pennsylvania. Earlier this week, we announced a much more comprehensive package, totaling seven point 5 million for pennsylvania. Again, sir, that is just down payment. All right. Followup to that senator fetterman says he believes they need more insight into how Norfolk Southern coordinated with pennsylvania agencies in the Immediate Response to the derailment. While the National Tensions were focused on the ohio side, this to ram it occurred, as you know, less than a mile from the pennsylvania border. Pennsylvanians live directly downwind from that chemical release and burn. Question, mr. Shaw, again this is senator fettermans question. Why werent the pennsylvania Emergency Management and pence are Environmental Protection contacted until hours after the derailment . Is there a process in place to notify the relevant state agencies when a derailment of train cars containing Hazardous Material occurs . If so, why hasnt this process been followed in this instance . Senator, the process that is established is part of the department of Homeland Security president ial directive which was established in 2003. My understanding is Norfolk Southern immediately contacted the national Response Center which then contacted applicable federal, state, and local authorities. Now we are going to turn to senator mullen for his questions. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you so much for being. Here i want to add to senator capitos questions to mr. Shaw. Im gonna add mr. Shot that the waste is being disposed at in a facility 70 miles from East Palestine . Im sorry, senator, could you repeat the question . We have report that hes liverpool, high, oil is receiving this waste from East Palestine that have been disposed of is that accurate . Senator, today i dont know the data is accurate as of this time. You know where the waist is going to . We are in the process of working with the epa on a number of facilities we havent identified where it is moving to yet . Senator, we are in the process of working with epa on a number of facilities that i understand that. I get your end of the process. We havent identified a place where the waist is being moved to yet . Is that accurate . Senator, i want to make sure i give you the most accurate i get that. Im just saying is accurate that we dont have a spot for it. Senator, we are moving some of it offside. Where is that moving to . Im happy to give you a list of those facilities. Could you do that for us, please . I appreciate that. Mr. Shaw, when the event and burn process was being made, who made those decisions . What were the other considerations other than just burning it and letting the material burn off . Thank you for that question. The only consideration, senator, what the safety and health of the community. That decision was made by unified command, under the direction of the Incident Commander. Who is that . The Incident Commander was fire chief trade back. Norfolk southern was a part of unify command. Who owns the car . Who actually owned the rail car in the material in it . The rail car in question are tank cars of which no railroad owns. Were they considered in this decisionmaking . Are they responsible for the content of it and the car itself . For the maintenance in the material and it . Isnt that correct . Senator, it is a privately owned rail car. The Maintenance Requirements for that red car between the rail car less or and the customer. Those are private contracts im not privy to them they are responsible for the content in the car, correct . Making sure that it is operating properly . Yes sir. Are they considered in this decisionmaking . It was their car, they are designed, their responsibility. Where they part of that decisionmaking on venting and burning . Senator, the customer provided in pilot were they in the room when the decision was being made . I received reports that they were. They werent in the room . No, sir. Not to my knowledge. Of find that hard to believe considering that it is their car, its their responsibility, and they werent even considered before this decision to event and burn in the middle of a town . Doesnt that seem like, possibly, a mistake there . Senator, unified command was focused solely on the health and safety of the community right, so the people who was in charge of the cars will probably have a say in that. To make sure that we know the best way to dispose of it. My understanding, at the time, from talking to experts was we were at risk of a catastrophic rupture that wouldve resulted in uncontrolled release of Hazardous Materials. Its my understanding, i have email to clarify this, the report that i received was the fact that the car was actually working properly at the time. But the cars owners, the ones who were responsible for, were not consulted before it was burnt. Often i have not been able to bear five that im just asking questions. That the information i received. If thats the case i think that is an area for improvement, would you consider that . Senator, i cannot comment on the accuracy of that report. I am not aware of that. Im saying that if it is accurate, when you consider that the place we could probably learn from . I think the primary concern with the health and safety of the community. Sir, i get what youre saying. Im not trying to be disrespectful to you. But im saying is, if all party responsible for the car should have been a part of the decisionmaking. I believe they would probably say that they would be concerned to. I think everyone in this room will say we are concerned about the health and safety of others. That is a gimme. There is no point in repeating that. Under saying how can we learn from this Going Forward . If they werent in the room during the decisionmaking, and yet it was their car. A report may be accurate that the car was actually working functionally, correctly. These cars are designed for this kind of incident. The option to vent and burn may not have been the best options, if we didnt consider all other options first. Senator, i understand that the experts on the ground who were there were very concerned about the pressure in a car. We also noted that other cars had been in a pool fire. The unified command was aware that there was concern of catastrophic explosion that would shoot the cem gas and shrapnel. We are talking circles. Chairman, what im trying to get to if the car was designed by someone else. If this car was owned by somebody else. If the function of that car was designed by somebody else. It was responsible to someone else. How do we know that the car wasnt working properly to begin with . That is a question that needs to be answered. Someone may need to be held responsible who made the decision to burn this off. Some of this, a lot of, this couldve been presented. With that, i will yield back. Thank you very much for those questions. Senator cardin, youre next. First, mister chairman, Ranking Member thank you very much for scheduling this hearing. I want to thank all the witnesses who are at the table. Yes, i am very concerned that this was a preventable accident. Preventable circumstance. The Safety Standards should have been able to deal with this. There needs to be full accountability. We need to make changes moving forward. We have concerns about Corporate Responsibility and decisions made at the corporate level. All of that are areas of green concern for every member of this committee. I represent the state of maryland. The ohio river may enough flow through the ohio river but its watershed does impact the watershed in ohio. Mr. Harris and mr. Bogle if i could get your understanding of how you are monitoring the quality of water as a result of this incident. What concerns me is that we have more extreme weather events that are occurring in our communities. As you are doing your monitoring, what precautions are you taking for extreme weather events that are likely to occur . And the impact that could have not just on ohio or pennsylvania, but perhaps even on maryland as it relates to water quality, or even air quality . Thank, you senator for that question. I will speak to the work orsanco has been doing to protect the ohio river supply. It really hinges on the great organics detection system. Which is a number of scientific instruments, including six which are juicy mass backed. Very significant instruments. We have been able to calibrate those for the various chemicals that we are able to detect. Those continue to operate. In addition to being able to operate those for oneoff sampling that we did, we track this bill remnants all the way through over 700 miles down the ohio river. We are continuing to operate. Actually those Drinking Water utilities are continuing to operate those on a daily basis. That system remains in operation. Well continue to be in operation as long as necessary. We are able to detect chemicals and any threats that might come through through rain. I am involved in unified command. Except for today. We have anywhere from 2 to 3 meetings today. We are assessed of the onsite conditions as they occur. We are able to demonstrate with our equipment that we did not detect any chemicals of concern. With regards to groundwater sources . We did not work with the groundwater. Our focus is on surface water. Miss vogel, can you add to this . Senator cardin, thank you for your question. We appreciate the work of orsanco. My team on the ground is sampling the surface water every single day we are taking samples from 20 different location. We have a website set up you can find exactly what we are sampling and what we are sampling form. A broad array of chemicals of concern. Also volatile chemicals generally. We are posting those results. We are continuing to see dilution of the chemicals of concern. I just want to be very transparent and say we will continue to samples likely find any detection. We have installed grain wells at the location of the derailment. Weve also installed sentinel wells near sovereign and lastly. Between them and the municipal wow field so that we will be able to testify was on a weekly basis and know if there are any contaminants that might be approaching any ground water or Drinking Water. Are you being totally transparent as you are doing this so that those of us who have concerns, particularly about impacts of extreme weather events, well be able to get contemporary insurance is that the monitoring is being done . Yes, senator. It is the number one priority of the team on the ground to prevent any additional releases, be rain events or, of course, going any further than the initial contaminated area. That is our number one goal with watermen and right now in terms of transparency, we have full lab results the moment we get them. The governor is very committed to being transparent and providing all of the information we have when we have it. Thank you, mister chairman. Yes. And thank you very much for joining us today. I was told that the senator is next in line. We will pass it to you. Thank you. Thank you very, much mister chairman. And thank you to all the panelists for joining us here today. And of course, nebraskas are praying for the people of East Palestine. We have this terrible tragedy, the railroads go across the state as well. So we are praying for a good outcome here. I would like to address my questions to you. I am sure you agree that americans deserve timely and helpful updates on it comes to the environment, right . Yeah. I and you would agree that americans should be confident when they return to their homes for safety purposes. So what are some of the things that the epa has learned from with your response here, that you could use to be able to improve, Going Forward, with regards to we have heard about the people of East Palestine, who are not believing what the government is saying. What can the epa do . What have you learned from this to be able to help for the next incident, to be able to help the people of that Community Get the information. So that they can safely return to their homes. Thank, you senator ricketts. First, let me say that i bring greetings from your sister, laura, whos been a longtime friend of mine back in illinois. And to your question, we are still in in the cleanup of the derailment. And that is our primary focus. We need to clean up the site, get the contaminated waste out of there, and then focus on the longer term remediation. There will be an after action report. We will be able to drill in on what lessons we have learned how to do better. But right now, we need to clean up the site as safely and quickly as possible. And ensure that the necessary safeguards are in place to protect human health and the environment. All right, thank you, miss shore. I will ask you basically the same questions. So, i am sure you agree that americans should have timely information when theres a catastrophe like this, right . Yes, sir. Its an emotional issue. And it was a devastating derailment for the folks of East Palestine. Thats one of the reasons why we set up our Family Assistance Center within 24 hours and have served 4400 families. Weve also established a website nso making it right. Com. Thats based on feedback ive gotten from the community, as ive walked around and talk to people. They want more information, sir. Im sure you are great people want to know unsafe go back to their homes, as well. What has Norfolk Southern learned from this that would help them to be able to provide that information to people, so that they can feel comfortable in going back to their homes and get the proper information in a timely way. What have you learned about what you could do differently Going Forward . Senator, in the immediate aftermath of this derailment, we had air monitoring in place. We had won a monitoring in place. Weve been collaborating with the epa. My understanding is all the tests have shown that the air is safe, and the water is safe. Senator, to your point, when we set up our website, i ask to the citizens of East Palestine for feedback. I asked them to tell me how we could make it better. And what they have asked for is information on their website, on the results of those air tests. And the water tests. Senator, ive also made sure that we point folks to the results of the highway epa, and the federal epa. The air and water tests. They are the experts, we are going to support them. So is there anything in hindsight that you would say, we shouldve done this better when it comes to how we are communicating with people of East Palestine . You know, senator, there are always opportunities to improve communication. I was there very soon after the derailment. I immediately went to the Norfolk Southern families assistance. And i immediately went to the red cross shelter. And i told him who i was, and i told them the company represented. And i made sure they knew that i was the ceo of Norfolk Southern. I also make sure i asked if they were getting everything they needed from Norfolk Southern. All right, thank you very, much mister chairman. I yield back. Thank you. And senator sanders, you are next. Let me thank the panel for being with us today. Mr. Shore, you indicated a response to a question from the chairman that you quote, i am committed to doing whats right, and quote. By letting all of us do what is right, but the devil is in the details. Mr. Shore, wall street, about a decade ago, in order to increase the problems they were earning in the Rail Industry, they implemented a program called precision scheduled railway. The result of that is that Norfolk Southern reduced its workforce by almost 40 over six years. Meanwhile, in fact, wall street s goal has achieved profits from Norfolk Southern between a billion dollars in profits last year. I have been told by workers that work for your company, and other rail companies, that they are now being asked to do more work with fewer workers. And that includes safety inspections. Well before this disaster in East Palestine, we have been told about potential safety hazards. Will you make a commitment, right now, to the American People, that you will lead the industry in ending this disastrous scheduled railroading which has slashed your workforce, and made railroading much less safe. Yes or no, will you make that commitment . Senator, i understand your concern. I share that concern. If you will permit, i have a couple points on that. I became ceo in may of last year. Ever since that point, senator, weve been on a hiring spree. The number of employees Norfolk Southern today is a 1500 more than it was at this time last year. Youll forgive me, i dont mean to be rude, we dont have a lot of time here. I understand that. But you will not deny, what youre trying to do is rebuild from the massive layoffs that took place. My question back to you again, wall street, not the industry, impose this on the industry. Wall street said, were not making enough money. Cut workers, cut workers, cut workers. Even if it endangers safety. My question to, you very simply sir, will you lead the industry in doing away with precision schedule railroading. The concept. Senator, in december of last year, i charted a new course in the industry. I said, we are going to move away from the near term focus. And we are going to take a longer term view that is founded on our engagement with our craft employees, who are so critical to our success. We were the first to pivot out of it. Let me jump in again. I apologize. When you talk about your employees, the entire country was shocked to learn several months ago that your employees, who work in dangerous jobs, in all kinds of weather, had zero paid sick days. I know that is beginning to change, but i would ask, you given the fact that Norfolk Southern provided 10 million in stock buybacks recently, can you tell the American People that your employees right now, who are improving morale in your workforce . That you will guarantee at least seven paid sick days to the 15,000 workers you employ. I do know you have made some progress. You increased pay for some of your workers. Will you do what most of americans think is pretty obvious, when you get sick, either guaranteed paid sick days . Will you make that commitment right now to your entire workforce . Senator, with our latest agreement with our employees, which included a historic 24 wage increase and access to Premium Health care benefits, we immediately pivoted to talking to each of our i have been deeply involved. I introduced the amendment on the floor. I know the issue. When i am asking you right now, you provided paid sick days to some of her employees. I got it. Thank you. Will you now do it, what we get here in congress. Our employees get sick, they get sick days. Will you make that commemorate now to guaranteed paid sick days to all of your workers . That is not radical or. And it really is not. Will you make that commitment, sir . Senator, i share your focus on our employees. I waited commit to continuing to discuss with them important quality of life issues with our local craft colleagues. With all due respect, he found like a politician here, mister jean. Paid sick days is not a radical concept in the year 2023. Im not hearing you make that commitment to guarantee that all of your workers. Clearly, we should have that for every worker in america. I am not hearing that commitment. We make that commitment, sir . Senator, im committed to continuing to speak to our employees about quality of life issues that are important to them. All right. Well im chairman of the Health Education and labor committee. I look for to have meant discussion. One last issue senator bernie, if you can keep it really brief. . You talked about covering the needs of the people of East Palestine, does that include paying for Health Care Needs . All of their Health Care Needs the . Senator, were gonna do whats right for the citizens. Whats right is to cover their Health Care Needs, will you do that . Everything is on the table, sir. Thank you. Our, thanks, thank you, senator sanders. Senator graham . Lets sort of continue what the senator was talking about. This hearing is designed to make sure that this doesnt happen again. Precision, scheduling, what was the phrase he used . Persuasion . Scheduling . What is it. Okay, did that have anything to do with this accident directly . Senator, thank you for that question. The ntsb report said that the crew did everything theyre supposed to do. I personally think them for that. Okay, so, lets get back to what were here for, trying to solve the problem in front of us. What caused this . . Senator, the ntsb report is still ongoing. Im not waiting to act. It was a lack of personnel, right . There is no indication that it is lack of personnel. Or that they did anything wrong . The ntsb specifically said theres no indication that the nsc crew did anything wrong. When we found out what happened, lets try to fix it. We can talk about paid leave. I think i may have voted for bernies amendment, i dont quite remember. I want to focus on the moment we have here. How many times have you been to East Palestine . Ive been there five times, senator. Miss shore, have you been there . Senator graham, i have spent 11 out of the last 30 days in East Palestine. Do you think you benefited from having been there and listened to the people . Very much so. What about you, mr. Shaw