Transcripts For CSPAN3 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20161205

We take on tough jobs, challenging jobs. Im impressed with you and impressed with the folks that are grateful for your services. Many times i have been down to the bothered, sometimes with other members of the committee. I look forward to being there with you in the not too distant future. It is important to me. I think everybody in this room. Most people in this country want stronger borders. Weve got a real problem. We all want to keep terrorists out of this country. We also need to remain clear about some of the other real risks and real solutions. We have to focus on the root causes and how to address the root causes. During this past campaign season, which thankfully is over, immigrants were attacked as a grave threat where theyre not. We heard about walls and deportations and not the underlying causes of real immigration challenges that we face. As a result, too many immigrants that come to the u. S. That no one will be able to care for the families to our great country. This includes the dreamers being pulled from jobs, deported to countries they may not even remember. And i dont think we strengthen our country by turning our backs on refugees. Helping Vulnerable People is part of our moral fabric. Scripture teaches that. When i was a stranger in your land, did you take me in. And to treat other people the way we want to be treated. And for generations open and Diverse Society who continue to enrich our country and help us to grow and to prosper. Deeply troubling at ohio state this week weighs heavily on my minds and many across this country. Reminds us that we must continue to be eternally vigilant. We must hard to meet our security challenges and our moral imperatives i believe we can do both and i believe we must do both. I think it is important to first recognize the significant strides we have already made along our southwestern border thanks to the efforts from a lot of people. For years we worried about large scale undocumented migration from mexico. And now experts tell us more mexicans are going back in from the u. S. Than coming into the u. S. And migration is less than zero. Men and women at customs and border supervision deserve a lot of credit. Perhaps the biggest factor is the strengthening mechanics can economy. That is an important thing to keep in mind as we talk about whether to reopen trade agreements in the region. The surge along the southwestern border right now is mostly a humanitarian one. Families from guatemala, honduras are freeing extreme violence and poverty and seeking asylum in the u. S. We are complacent in their misery by virtue of our addiction to drugs. They send us drugs, we send them guns, we send them money. And the people are miserable and face life with misery. They want to get out and they want to come here to be safer. Haitian migrants, on the other hand, including many of them living and working in brazil until its recent economic decline are another new decline as we know. Not trying to evade the agency. They work for you. It is unlikely we will fix these current challenges i think with a wall or even more patrol agencies. Instead, we must address the root causes by helping the governments of on el salvador, hon tkurdura honduras, guatemala. I say you can do it. We can help. We have an obligation to help because we are complacent in your misery. I traveled this past october and saw efforts being made to address the problems. Governments, nonprofits there to address the extreme privacy, hopelessness, the drive. Many make the dangerous journey across the border. About 750 million to support these countries. Work to address these difficult conditions. I hope we can continue this bipartisan support. Theyve got to do their share. Actually, they have to do a lot more heavy lifting than we do. I think we have a moral obligation to help them. It is is the right thing to do given our addiction to drugs fuels so much of the law alsoness in that region. Our agents and officers work side by side with foreign officers target and break up foreign trafficking. We must work in action here at home. I support common sense to strengthen border security. We will continue to do. So that include investments in advanced surveillance technologies which are used effectively. It also includes resources such as horses. Boats. All kinds of boats which are not as hightech but provide our agents with greater visibility. And staffing our ports of especially try and making Smart Investments in infrastructure in the ports. And how comprehensive Immigration Reform can be a Critical Force multiplier. It can be and should be. And the idea of a Worker Program where a lot of people down there they dont want they would like to be able to travel back and forth, work and go home again. They sometimes get stuck up here and find it hard to get back down and back up. So is a comprehensive Immigration Reform would help with that. As officials have is testified over the years, it would create legal problems with migration. Lastly, comprehensive reform will strengthen us economically. According to congressional budget off, not me, none of us, nonpartisan comprehensive reform would provide a 5. 4 boost in gdp. More than a trillion dollars. It helps to keep us in mind as we head into the next congress. Thanks again for being here, for your leadership. Mr. Chairman, thank you for putting this together today. Thank you, senator carper. I would be remiss if i didnt just thank you on your partnership the last two years. As Ranking Member and bipartisan committee, we have to keep track of this. We passed 83 pieces of legislation out of this committee, most unanimously. We are up to 30 piece legislation having been signed into law in some way, shape or form. A record. When i first joined this committee, you and senator cole burn set. And you continued that tradition. Im going to miss you my Ranking Member and look forward to working with my next senator mccaskill. Shes not here. She will be my Ranking Member. I wish you well. I promise not to go far. Its been a pleasure to be your wing man and served with everybody. It was a good group. And the Customs Border union, appreciate their attendance as well as looking forward to working with them, again, to make that commitment to secure a border in 2017 and beyond. It is is traditional of this committee to swear in witnesses. If you will both rise and raise your right hand. Our first witness is mr. Mark morg morgan. The current he chief of the Border Control at the u. S. Kphubgs and Border Protection within the department of Homeland Security. The first person from outside the agency to be appointed chief. He began his career in 1996 as a special agent at the Los Angeles Field Office of the fbi. During his tenure with the fbi, he held numerous key leadership positions in a little more fullblown biography, you were on the Hispanic Gang Task force in southern cafornia, ms13 and the 18th street gang. Well probably want to ask questions on that. Chief morgan, i yield the floor. Good morning. Chairman johnson, Ranking Member carper, thank you for allowing us to talk about the United States Border Control. During my first four months of chief, i have traveled to 11 sectors to meet with thousands of Border Patrol agents, staff is and leadership from the northern, southern and coastal borders as well as the Border Patrol academy, headquarters in d. C. , canine Training Facility and special operations in el paso. And all of these, one thing was consistent and abundantly clear. The men and women of the United States Border Control have one of the toughest jobs in federal Law Enforcement. They are the most assaulted federal Law Enforcement in the United States. More than 7,400 have been assaulted since 2006. That rose if y 16 by 20 . And year to date, we are seeing an increase of 200 from the Previous Year to the date. It is a dangerous job. Since my short time here, two Border Patrol agents have been killed in the line of duty. Alvarez is and gomez. They faced long hours, adverse conditions and they are often called upon to go above and beyond what they are trained to do. Theyre innovative. They have a cando attitude. They are dedicated to the mission, this country, themselves, and doing something greater than themselves. Im honored to be serving with them. These are my first is and most important observations in my first four months here. Therefore, one of my focuses during my tenure to be an advocate to provide them with tools and common sense policies they need to do their job effectively and safely. The current challenges we face in Law Enforcement are unparallel. The United States Border Control team, we are committed to identifying how we can get better and continue to evolve as an organization to address the challenges we face. Here are just a few important areas of focus that i think we need to look at as we move forward. Sustain and build the most valuable asset, our workforce. Focus on recruitment, retention and diversity. Improve on our threat base and operationally focus strategy to increase our Situational Awareness and confidence levels across every mile of the United States borders. Evaluate current policies and law khs directly impacts our mission to protect our nations borders on enforcement operations and increasing conscious consequences for those illegally crossing our borders. Reinforce our multilayered enforcement strategy and strengthen our Situational Awareness by continuing Smart Investments in infrastructure, technology, personnel and operational assets. The same Smart Investments in our facilities need to continue to be a top priority as well. We need to enhance our agility, focusing on mobile technology and workforce. Continue to the strengthen our mobile operations by expanding our performance driven methodology, air and Marine Operations and integrated operations with our partners both domestically and internationally. We need to expand and integrate our Information Technology systems. We need to focus on targeted expansion of our human intelligence base, document exploitation and our collection in dissemination capabilities. We need to identify across a spectrum to ensure we have the correct balance of agents, staff, and intelligent analysts. We need to focus concerning the allocation of resources and support of the Current Mission being asked to do in an effort to get badges back to the border. Develop a proactive communication strategy in an effort to engage our external and external partners in stakeholders and enhance performance matrix to reflect our efforts toward our strategy, on threats and mitigation effectiveness. We will continue to focus on these priority areas, all of which will enhance the ability to protect, prevent and respond to threats along our nation ae borders. I thank you for the opportunity to testify here today and look forward to your questions. Thank you. Thank you, chief morgan. Our next witness ms. Carla pro vest, Current Deputy chief at the u. S. Custom borders communication in the department of Homeland Security. The first woman in the 92year history. In her 20year career, she has held nearly every position in the u. S. Border control. Deputy chief provost. Thank you. Chairman johnson, Ranking Member carper and distinguished members of the committee, it is a privilege to be here today alongside chief morgan. This is a proud moment for me as this is my first appearance at a congressional hearing representing the dedicated and hard working men and women of the United States Border Patrol. Though today marks one month into my current position as deputy chief, i spent the majority of my professional Law Enforcement career, nearly 22 years, serving in the u. S. Border patrol. During that time i have seen quite an evolution. I entered on duty with the Border Control in january of 1995. And as an agent in the field, in both urban and remote border environments, i worked alongside my colleagues to address threats ranging from illegal immigration, smuggling, trafficking, and terrorism by targeting, detect thing and interdicting potentially dangerous on people is and materials. I was also significantly involved with training and management aspects of Border Patrol operations across four different sectors in all four states along the southwest border instructing agents in law, firearms, bike patrol, directing sector budgets and Human Resources while overseeing operations. When i first came on board, there were less than 5,000 Border Patrol agents nationwide. We were still processing on typewriters and correction tape was worth its weight in gold. That year we apprehended 1. 3 Million People on the southwest border alone. As you can imagine, we did not possess the tools or technology that agents use today. Back then it was common to be marked by a three strand barbed wire fence or, in many case, nothing at all. We relied on 1960s aircraft for support and home made sensors to notify us of illicit opportunity. With that came renewed focus on border security. And the tragedy of 9 11 only intensified that commitment. As i progressed, so did the Border Patrol. We began hiring new agents in ernest, growing our presence along the bordard dramatically. It impacted business and economy. Growth seemed to mirror our own. Technology such as sensors, night vision began to help our abilities. We saw improvement in many of those already in existence. Here in washington, i led the standup of cdps use of force center of excellence which is the Law Enforcement safety directorate, safety, readiness and Operational Performance of cbp Law Enforcement personnel by articulating policy and the highest level of education and training to the our agents and officers. I served as commissioner of the office of professional responsibility overseeing compliance with all programs and policies relating to corruption, misconduct, internal security, and integrity awareness. I am proud to have the opportunity to bring my field experience and perspective to the u. S. Border patrol headquarters. I look forward to working with chief morgan and all of my colleagues in the Border Patrol, cbp to enhance our operations, to protect our nations borders and ensure the safety of the public that we serve. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today the. I look forward to your questions. Thank you, deputy chief provost. Ill start the questioning with chief morgan. Obviously im concerned about the continued flow of unaccompanied children for a host of reasons. Because we have not ended the inseptemberives for people to come into this country illegally, children continue to take a dangerous journey through mexico and lives are being lost and the children are becoming real victims. Talk a little bit about how the flow of unaccompanied children how that overstretches your resources is and how it distracts from other your other missions . Yes, sir. I refer to the Border Patrols involvement with uac and family units as one of humanitarian at this point. We know that basically of otms which now is about 63 of our apprehensions, focusing on the otm side it is about 43 , 44 of our overall apprehensions. It is is probably closer to 50 . That takes an exorbitant amount of resources and funding to sustain those operations. Knowing that basically 100 are released into the United States. Thats why i call that a humanitarian mission. I refer back to midnight one evening when i was in a sector where i saw a 6yearold and 11yearold Holding Hands that made their trek from honduras. That is not a Law Enforcement threat. But the Border Patrol is dedicating a tremendous amount of resources taking those folks in, processing them. At times we really a lot of resources are dedicated to being professional child care providers. Rgb alone we developed a second cpc, processing center. Each one of those Processing Centers takes 120 agents to man 100 processing and taking care of the family units and uacs. We just recently opened up a temporary Holding Facility in reno to help with that. It comes at a high cost as well to be able to run that facility and provide the resources. I recently, when i traveled to rgv, the pack supervisor in charge said, chief, were going to do whatever this country asks us to do but i never thought in my 20 years i would be as part of the procurement, ordering baby powder and baby wipes. Actually i just got from one sector where agents, one of their jobs during the day is to make sure that the food, the burritos that were being provided were warmed properly. It tax a tremendous amount of resources to do this. Can you talk about the realities on the border when you have a flood 50 or 100 unaccompanied children or family members, the way they can be used as a diversion for higher value smuggling, whether its drugs or human or sex trafficking. Isnt that whats happening . Absolutely smugglers use that as a distraction, yes, sir. Again, the resources, it absolutely is impacting. As a Border Patrol, im comfortable saying that the mission that the uacs and family it is impacting our ability to perform a Law Enforcement mission. I am taking a considerable amount of agents away from the border to the take care of this. This is a problem we have not solved. Ill quote back in july 9, 2014 when the chairman carper called a hearing. He said how do we create the mindset where the parents say i want my children to stay here so they can a question. I think we have probably a difference in opinions the way to stop the flow. I think senator carper, again, i would love to improve the conditions in Central America. But if we put our chart of just uacs, we see of the children that have come here unaccompanied in 2013, 14, 15, 16, at least the last few years, were returning less than 4 . And so isnt the reality that if you come as an unaccompanied child from south america and you get into this country, by the way, its easy to get in here. Just walk across the bridge, turn yourself in, youre apprehended, processed and dispersed. It creates incentive. Pay the fee, take the dangerous journey. If you get into america youre going to stay. Isnt that an enormous problem and one of the reasons we havent solved this problem . Yes, sir. When we talk about push pull, we go back to 2006. 9 we apprehended were mexican nationals. Now were at 36 . Why . Well, theres a couple things that happen, why we see the dramatic decrease. One is a solid consequence delivery system. One, we instituted e. R. , expedited removal so individuals knew when they came they were being held and then being removed. That was a consequence. It served as a strong deterrent. Let me just interrupt you. Thats with mexicans or qacana n canadia canadians. Talk about Central America. What is happening with the otms from Central America, it is basically the same thing. Right they know if they make it to the border they will be released into the interior of the United States. Generally thats done through an nta, a notice to appear. Border patrol, we dont do that. We process as we normally do and hand them over to the next agency and the whole government approach. Then that is done. But thats the reality. They come to the borders and they are being released. What that does is sends a strong message to the folks in the country, if you get to the United States border, were going to let you in. If we go back to the process of expediting, removal, with humidity, send them back to guatemala, honduras, we dramatically reduce the incentive and redramatically decrease the flow. Yes, sir. Thats why i used the mexicans as an example. Deputy chief provost. We did have a surge from brazil. We received the authority to conduct expedited removal starting the year prior. We did start utilizing that. When we delivered the consequence of the expedited removal and the physical removal to brazil, the numbers did decrease. Thank you. My time has expired. Senior carper. Thank you very much for your testimony and for your leadership for a short period of time and actually a long period of time, ms. Provost. I will reiterate again we need secure borders. And we need to have a strong, well equipped, well trained Border Patrol force. I believe we have that. Probably the best weve ever had. Certainly the most expensive because the money we spent to support the thousands of people who work under your leadership. I want to tell the story. I told it before. Some of my colleagues have heard it. I want to tell it again. Campai. Third largest county in the country. We raised more chickens there than any other county in america. Some of the folks who process the chickens come from guatemala. We have a significant presence in sussex county. I was at a place, and what they do, they show up on the door steps to provide assistance for them, rather than just turn a deaf ear to them, you know, during my meeting with them, they told me about a teenage boy who had arrived in sus succesex county. He said that when he was 13 years old, he was approached by a gang in guatemala. He talked to his parents, and they said we dont want you to be in a gang. He talked to a guy in the gang members, well, we want you to be in the gang. Are you ready to join. He said i talked to my parents, andis it ot something i want do. They didnt receive it well. A couple of weeks later, they said have you changed your mind. He said no, i havent. If you dont change your mind, somebody in your family will die. Somebody will die. He talked to his family, they said join the gang. He joined the gang. His initiation, one of the requirements that he had to undertake was to rape his 13 year old sister. Thats part of the initiation. And he went home and told his pair re parents. They said youre out of here. If any of us lived in that environment, we would probably want them to be out of guatemala, where ever it is, a safer place. Bishop mark sykes, a witness a year or two ago, he shared this analogy with us. He talked about a house, and he talked about the Fire Department, and the Fire Department coming to the house. And setting the house on fire. The Fire Department setting the house on fire. And then locking the doors and driving away. That was the analogy he used. And we the reason why they have the kind of violence down there is in large part because of us, because of our addiction to drugs and the flow of drugs through those nations, and to come to our borders, we send them guns and money. What do we do about that . Weve done great stuff on the border. We can always do more. Weve been generous in terms of support for the assets and walls, fences, durables, you name it, whatever. Unmanned aircraft, all kinds of stuff. But when you have a country, 15,000 Small Businesses extorted in a single year, basically shut down, we know how Small Businesses and jobs come from. In this country and other countries, 15,000 shut down because of extorsion threats. Thats just a loser. The kinds of threats i explained just from the stories i heard in person by my that has to be part of the solution as well. It cant be just us. 20 years ago, senator mccain will recall, 20 years ago, columbia. Plain columbia was not the u. S. Coming down on the problem. Plain columbia said youve got a problem and youve got to fix your problem. Were going to help you. So having said that, there is a reason why, and i think deputy chief provost, you mentioned your first year on the job as a Border Patrol agent, i think you said 1. 3 Million People coming across the borders, being taken and into custody. And it used to be in those earlier days, they were mostly mexicans. There are more mexicans going back in than are coming out. All those people are coming out of honduras, el salvador, guatemala, we need to make the needles bigger for the haystack, and work has to take place in those three countries. Give us some advice. How do immigration help, folks can come up, work for a while and go back legally. Please . First of all, i think cir is definitely needed and we fully support that. You just alluded to a couple of examples of that. Cir being. Immigration reform. Thank you. Absolutely. There are definite push backs. Economic equality, those are all true. I agree with that. I think from the United States Border Patrol perspective, again, im looking at the facts, and like i said, when we do institute a really thoughtout consequence delivery system, we see that positively impacting the flow, meaning it does go down. Thats definitely factual and we can show that over the years. I think we need to have a facilitated discussion as well about some current law and policy. I can give you one example, credible fear. So we know right now that smuggling organizations are absolutely using and exploiting a credible fear. We know theyre coaching individuals on specifically what to say, when they come here. They just rattle off and memorize the magic words they need to say so that theyll fall within the statute of credible fear. We think that thats being exploited. We think that it is being going well beyond the original intent of the purpose of incredible fear, like the example you just used. Thats what credible fear is supposed to be used for. Absolutely. But we know it is being exploited. So i think thats one thing we can do as part of cir is to look at the policies where it makes sense and try to have a good s facility adjustment in 20002013, less than 1 were claiming corresponden claim credible fear coming across. It is continuing to rise. We see that as an issue. Again, going back to the nta, the notice to appear, we know that thats definitely a pullfactor. We know that they are communicating, and theyre like, hey, it doesnt matter. If you get here, you will be released. You say these magic words, even if you dont say the magic words, youll be let into the country. We need to have a discussion about our utilization of the nta to make sure that were really applying it where it is needed going forward. I think that needs to be part of the facilitative discussion. This is still appropriate today. No silver bullet. A lot of silver beebees. Some are bigger than others. Thank you, senator carper. I appreciate the well attended hearing here. I asked the senators as well as the witnesses to keep the question and answer within seven minutes and everyone will have a chance to ask questions. Senator portman. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for having the hearing today, because it is a critical time. Welcome to the committee and to you and deputy chief provost and your officers out there in the field. We appreciate what you do everyday, as we heard earlier, it is under tough circumstances. To a certain extent, youre working under constraints that make it difficult to do your job. Im going to change the topic a bit and talk about drugs, particularly the Trans National criminal organizations that bring the drugs across our border. As you know, this congress, the senate and house has acted, the president has signed the comprehensive addiction act. Senator ayotte just joined us. Many members of the committee have been involved in it. It is ground breaking, historic and focuses on the demand side. Weve had other witnesses before this committee who talked about the importance about reducing the demand for drugs, helping to get prescription drugs off the shelves. We have an opportunity to look at new legislation to put more money into those efforts and we think thats important. I believe thats the core. But there is still a huge issue with these drugs going across the border. We have the opportunity to be able to increase the price of these drugs by better enforcement. Some statistics that ive seen indicate were stopping only about 1. 52 coming across the border. Recently, weve had testimony before this committee indicating that about 100 of the heroin and 90 of the cocaine is coming across the border. Much of it, of course, from mexico with regard to heroin and even meth. My question is what can you do to stop these drugs, increase the price, stop some of the consequences of these Trans National criminal organization, which not only add to crime in this country, but of course, make these other governments, mexico, Central American countries, much more vulnerable to corruption and you know, frankly, if you look at these numbers, theyre increasing, not decreasing. So i guess my first question is are my statistics right . Are we only stopping about 1 or 2 of these drugs coming over the border, this poison coming into the communities . Do you think thats accurate . First and foremost, i would say as you know, you mentioned the amount coming across. We track everything we apprehend, and you are correct. We are having numbers of meth, heroin, cocaine and marijuana crossing our borders. That being said, we use all of the resources that we can to the best of our abilities to try to detect and apprehend whether it be at the ports of entry, at the border, or for Border Patrol agents as well with our multi layered approach further into the country. We use our resources, such as our canines. Were continuously trying to improve training, so were better at interdicting. The unknown is a difficult thing to measure for us. We do know that our numbers thus far this year for fy 17, year to date, everything has been trends down except for meth, which is up slightly compared to fy 2016. If i could interrupt you for a second. That concerns us because we see an increase in overdoses, and were seeing about 120 people dying a day, five a day in my home state of ohio alone. Everybody on the frontlines is saying the same thing. It is getting worst, not better. This is the source of the biggest increase, which is heroin. The other is fentanyl, the sin n th synthetics, coming by mail primarily. But youre saying youre apprehending less and yet were seeing more in the communities. That is just through the beginning of fy 17. So the last two months, the numbers are down slightly, but trending closely across the board to where we were last year. When we talk about how much we interdict, thats a difficult number to determine, because of difficult to say what we dont know. That being said, we use all of the resources that we have to the best of our ability to try to interdict. It is a focus for us. It has been over my entire career within the Border Patrol. We have many more tools now than we did in the past to assist us. We have grown in our capacity with canine officers and such. Utilizing other sources to help us deputy, let me interrupt you again. My time is ending here. Youre saying youre using every resource at your disposal, and my understanding is you have not asked for help from a dod operation, it would help in terms of monitoring, also in terms of just the transporting because some of these drugs i understand by air, just across the border in small strips. Why are you not access those . So we actually are in dialogue to continue that operation. I know there is so youre changing your view on that and ask for their help . From my perspective, as the chief of the United States Border Patrol, we need the help. Do you need Additional Resources beyond operation ph phalynx do your job . Yes. It is a very small number, if you would agree with that, and you indicate youre using all the resource you have, new detection, and monitoring capabilities, but obviously, it is not working to be able to stop this flow of the poisons. Again, some of it is stopping, ultimately, the cure will be more on the demand side. Weve got to be able to do a better job at the border. Yes, sir, agree. And it really goes to the threatbased driven operation approach as well. We need to work through stone garden, domestic partners, canada, mexico. We need to take the fight to the enemy and stop it before it even touches the border. Those are all things were doing, but we need to get better at, absolutely. Im going ask you if you would submit in writing what you need from coast guard, from our military in terms resources. From dea and how we can be helpful to make progress. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Could i just mention, mr. Chairman, in the ndaa, there is a requirement to use drones. Right now, drones are flying out of arizona and youre not coordinating with them. Which is crazy. There is a requirement in the ndaa that coordinate with the military to use the drones to surveil the border, and finally, mr. Chairman, things are not improving as far as manufactured mexican heroin. It is an epidemic. Just because it is slightly better, it is totally unsatisfactory. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Chief morgan, i will narrow this in a moment to a question that i hope youll be able to answer, but i just want to give voice to the fact that i have been hearing as a senator in the state of wisconsin and certainly reading in the news reports of a significant escalation of harassment, bullying and hate incidents directed to immigrants, to africanamericans, to muslims, to other minorities in recent weeks. And it has been very distressing to hear some of my constituent accounts. Recently, the Southern Poverty Law Center that is tracking some of the hateful incidents in the weeks after our recent election said that antiimmigrant incidents were the most common type of harassments that has been reported. In my home state, i have received communication from a wide number of individuals. I heard from a father and communi community tomahawq, my son who was adopted was told to pack his bags for mexico. A few weeks ago, there was a documented report of an anonymous hate mail sent to a family in fitchburg, wisconsin. The letter to the family, which includes 11 adopted children from the u. S. , from ghana and china read in part, trump won. Go home. Race wars are on. It is not only happening in wisconsin, as i mentioned, it is across the country, and it is deeply concerning to me. And goes against the values that we hold as americans. I have also heard from constituents in the immigrant community about the very real fears about potential antiimmigrant policies under the incoming administration. For example, ive heard from legal green card holders, they are afraid to travel in the next few months, because they fear that they may be turned away or subject to additional scrutiny when they seek to return to the United States. And so i want to ask you in connection with helping to reassure that my constituents and other legal immigrants that nothing will change in the u. S. Border patrols process for determining immigration status, and if you might add, i would like to hear about the training that your officers receive on the treatment of individuals in the Border Patrols custody, including harassment and discrimination against immigrants and other minorities. Yes, maam. First of all, everything you described goes against everything i believe as well as an american. I agree with you 100 . As far as the United States Border Patrol, what were doing and how were doing is not going to change. The current law and policy that we have been directed to operate under, thats what well continue to operate. When that changes, then well change. Well enforce the laws and policies that were directed to. We understand the law, we understand the policies as written, the United States Border Patrol will comply going forward. There will not be a change. Once there is Immigration Reform, and if there is new policies, we will adjust accordingly. As far as the training at the academy, absolutely it is a significant topic. We actually have one of the best leaders leading the United States Border Patrol academy in chief patrol agent harris. Ive had numerous conversations with him. In my former life, i was assistant director of the fbi academy as well, where these things were talked about as well. Those are critical things that we focus on, and we need to focus on, we continue to focus on. Can you provide any additional detail on the curriculum during the training other than those broad comments you made . No, maam, cant provide specific topic areas, but i can followup and provide that. Okay. The my understanding is that the u. S. Border patrol is currently 50 over capacity at its Holding Facilities. And i understand that youre in the process of building additional temporary facilities, which will continue to provide medical attention, and clothing and other resources to women and children in particular. In addition to service on this committee, as you know, i serve on the Homeland Security subcommittee of the Appropriations Committee, and with that in mind, can you speak to what resources are currently needed with regard to dealing with overcapacity issues in your Holding Facilities . Yes, maam. Actually, tore writtino was one up. We do have other areas where we have an overflow. Some areas along the southwest border were actually more than over 100 capacity. And some of our areas. So places like torino is necessary. It comes at a high cost. Like you said, it is from a to z, ands it is a child care professional stuff that were doing. Clothing them, feeding them, making sure they get the medical attention. Making sure that theyre able to sleep. Making sure they get appropriate meals during the day. Make sure they have snacks. Meals are warm. All that stuff that we should be, right, providing a child and a mother or father of the child. Thats what were doing. But as the numbers continue to increase, the capacity becomes strained and were having to go to extreme measures to make sure were doing the right thing. Senator ayotte. Thank you, chairman. I wanted to followup on some of the questions that senator portman asked about the heroin and fentanyl interdiction at the southern border. This is something i focused on in the Armed Services committee along with the chairman of that committee, chairman mccain, in terms of working with our leaders in south and north com. Because those networks, as i understand it, they can be used to traffic anything. And so it is a National Security issue as well. So can you tell me you know, what is it that would be most helpful to you in terms of increasing our ability to interdict, especially as we think of the devastation that senator portman mentioned, that weve seen in my state as well, when it comes to heroin and fentanyl. It has already been described by everybody here. We have to strengthen those partnerships. We have to strengthen that intelligence mechanism that really through the Counter Network operations, right, both domestically and International Partners to take the fight to them. If they made it to the border, we have already lost. So we have really got to strengthen that intelligence apparatus. I mean, as i understand it on the Armed Services committee there also is a rule i think for some of the role of our military on the other obviously on in their role thinking about their partnerships. Yes, maam. We need to work with the Ic Intelligence community as well, to make sure by the great men and women at the Border Patrol, it is overwhelming in a good way. We need to make sure the stuff that we know and the stuff we get, we are a getting it to the right people so they can do what they need to do that were not able to do. Thats right. We need to continue to strengthen it. Were doing it. We just need to get better at it. I want to ask about the northern border. Senator heitkamp and i have reviewed one that passed the house last night and senators johnson and peters are on that bridge and appreciative of that. As a northern border state, this to me is very important as well. I wanted to know if youre familiar with the northern border review act. Whats your review as the potential issues, and i know that those issues are issues that can impact our National Security. So what is your assessment of where we are in the northern border, and how what is your view of the security review act and whether you think it would be helpful. First of all, i think the act would be helpful. Anything thats going to have us further the dialogue and further focus on the northern border is a good thing. Im trying to use the right adjective to talk about the northern border. Im concerned about the northern border and the threats posed there. Obviously one of the class environment, so it has to be narrow how we fwauk thtalk abou. Ill go back to that. We need to make sure that were focused on threats, not just numbers. And ill use an example real quick. The interdiction rate that we know, i dont think thats a great measure. If we apprehended 100,000 gang members or 100,006yearolds, the output will be the same. Were not talking about the so what behind it. What i want to make sure, we can focus on numbers, because we have to deal with the numbers, but i want to make sure that all that we do, our allocation of resources, our request for requirements and resources, our measures and matrix, it is focused on the so what. It is focused on the threat, and not just on the activity numbers going forward. I think we need to continue to strengthen that. Thank you. Thank you both for what you do for the country. Appreciate it. Senator booker. Thank you. First of all, i want to thank you both for your service to our country, the jobs that you do. It is awesome responsibility. I stand in humble gratitude to both of you for what you do on a daily basis. More than this, the job air doing is fundamental to the safety of my community and the state of new jersey as well as all of us. Some of of the greatest threats were facing, you are the frontlines to protecting us, and some of the most dogged issues from drugs to terrorism, you all are the frontlines, and im grateful for that. In addition to that, as a person who under my leadership when ways a mayor, i had over 1,000 sworn officers as well as other first responders, many folks just dont know the kind of pressures and challenges of frontline Law Enforcement face every single day. The incredible dangers, unrelenting sometimes abuse that officers face. I want to just, again, echo the sentiments im sure of my colleagues in expressing appreciation. When you talked about being the leading agent with assaults to officers, that is very frustrating to me. I want to commit to you and im sure my colleagues agree, please reach out to me if there is things were not doing to support the mission that is central to your success of protecting the wellbeing of your officers, protecting giving them the resources they need to make sure theyre doing what they need to do. I have a concern, having, you know, under my leadership officers, and i did everything i could to drive down those analytics, including a tax against officers, making sure they could protect their tools. One thing i didnt build out early in my time as mayor, which came back as a shocker to me, because it violated my have a val lie values and i know it would yours, i didnt build up the metrics with how my officers were inter acting with the public. The aclu and others were making allegations that i didnt believe were true about racial profiling, disparate treatment, but we were arguing over things that there was no transparent analytics to measure. You and i share the same values of the conduct of first responders. Now, the 21st Century Task Force on policing urgies federal law n all detentions, and added Law Enforcement agencies should regularly post on the departments website information about stops, summons, arrests, reported crime, other Law Enforcement data aggregated by demographics. Once i saw my data, and cooperated with the aclu to make it public, things started getting better. You all dont collect data on stops. Was stunned to find that out. I know that the integrity of your agency, you would want to know as a manager who air pulling over, racial demographics, all the things that the aclu is compiling also stunning data, you know. Aclu has covered over 6,000 pages of complaint by abuse of Border Control agents, including racial profile, yet one case ended in disciplinary action. I was in a situation, very little disciplinary action on me, until we started shining a light, using objective data. And so i would like to know, again, why arent you collecting this data, really analyzing and crunching it, and doing it in a transparent way that number one could deflect criticisms that officers face, because some things arent true, but to help you as managers to berman age your agency to t better manage your agency . First of all, thank you for your kind words about how tough it is to do this job. On behalf of the men and women not in d. C. , i am. They are on the frontlines everyday, on behalf of them, thank you. They do have a dangerous job, and they are the frontlines and protecting our family, so thank you very much. Second to your statement, agree with you. Everything you just said. We should be doing that. For those exact reasons you said. I think that will shine a light positively. So i do, and im going to turn it over to deputy chief to talk about what were collecting. I do think were collecting most of that stuff. I think what we need to do is get better at analyzing that stuff and getting that stuff out public. Thats what we need to do, get better at. With that, im going to turn this is the last time ill speak. Can i get something from you about you say i want to get better. Is there deadlines and timelines you set for yourself to get better . The other thing i would like to see, deputy chief and 1 56 i have left, youre also the unfortunately the lowest federal agency with Law Enforcement for representation of women. And thats something that we found in other federal agencies is really important to address. Obviously, we know what is happening in arizona with the federal ruling right now, another area of just figuring out analytics to measure the treatment of people once you have them detained, the conditions in that federal case, where stunning to me and i know dont reflect our common values and the ones i know you share. If i may, touching on the first, with the data collection. We are in my role in the office of professional responsibility, following on the chiefs role, we have been working diligently, or they are working diligently with both the Border Patrol and Field Operations to improve transparency across cpp. As you know, that was one of the commissioners priorities. He has said that numerous times. There is a lot of improvement on data collection. I will tell you, we have further to go, when it comes to that. The sheer size of our organization, with over 45,000 sworn officers, we are working on this, though, together. It is something we realize we need to improve upon. We work closely with many ngos, nongovernmental organizations, in relation to any other come blan complaints. The office of professional any allegations against our employees, the chief mentioned how high assaults have been. I can tell you one, the uses of force have decreased over the regularly over the last couple of years. So we are showing improvement there. We are focusing on our work with the public in general, and we realize there is need for improvement there. Just quickly, to touch on the representation of women. The Border Patrol does have a lower number of women. It has been around 5 , really since the 20 years that ive been from the Border Patrol. That being said, we are working with office of resource management, we are taking a lot of steps to try to improve and to seek out more women than thank are interested in this. I myself was a Police Officer before joining the Border Patrol. The Border Patrol is very different work from much other Law Enforcement work. And it has been an area that we have struggled to increase our number of women, but we are working on that. I think we are making strides in that area. So that we have a more diverse work force. Senator ernst. Thank you, mr. Chair. Thank you both for being here today. We appreciate your service to our nation, very much. Im encouraged by the cpps engagement with dod to increase efforts to facilitate and expedite the hiring of our veterans as they leave the service, and while i certainly support your efforts as a veteran with previous experience working at a Job Assistance Center in fort benning, i am very much aware of the numerous, more than i can count, and often overlapping federal employment programs for veterans. They reside in so many different departments across the federal government. And i have worked with my colleagues in the senate, including senator john mccain, who is the sponsor of the border jobs for veterans act to ensure that any efforts on this front actually achieve the goal of recruiting Outgoing Service members for positions like yours. And we really believe this will help solve the fragmentation and overlap in those programs. Can you please provide the committee with more details about how cpp is currently engaging with the dod to help the retiring or transitioning Service Members . Yes, maam. As a former, current, i guess i always consider myself a United States marine, this a great program. Our Human Resources, they would be able to give you more details, but i can tell you they actually won an award this year, for their interaction with the military counterparts, and we are seeing extreme positive benefits. Theyre increasing their recruitment events across the country at military installations and abroad. A couple of the things theyre looking at in detail, which is the right thing, you know, a couple of avenues of reciprocity. Physical fitness. If you have somebody from the military, do we need to have them go through that again, when theyre already physically fit and taken a test within a certain time period. A polygraph, if they recently passed a polygraph, do we need to put them through another one. The division is looking at to increase that. Could i just make a point. Right now, it takes 18 months, right, to receive the clearance so that you can be employed by the Border Patrol, right . Sir, it is actually improved now. Why is it a veteran cannot immediately be hired, if that veteran is already gone through all of that screening . Yes, sir. Thats exactly what theyre looking at. Theyre trying to look at all those lets do more than look at it, okay . It is outrageous, okay . Lets do it. Yes, absolutely. Sorry toy interrupt. No, youre fine, senator mccain. The point is well taken. We have a huge number of qualified personnel that are leaving a service, theyre well fit to go into Border Patrol, and they are used to the extreme lifestyles that you engage in. So it is a great fit. With women as well. We have a great number of phenomenal Women Veterans that are exiting our services, and this would be a great place for them to further their careers. Senator from iowa, yield for one moment . Yes. Clarification, senator mccain, you said 18 months, you said it has improved. To what extent . Yes, sir. Im not sure of exact numbers, but i know theyve reduced that in half. I think were looking at, you know, under a year. Come back to us in writing if you would, please. Thank you. Could i engage in a colloquy for a second. If you have a veteran who is leaving the military, who has already had the clearances, why couldnt you hire that person immediately . Yes, sir. Why would it take a year . Yes, sir. So i think my phrase looking at it probably not the right word. They are actively pursuing initiatives to make it happen. And also, actually, the vast majority of folks that were looking at dont necessarily have the clearances and the backgrounds that they went through arent quite as extensive as some of the backgrounds that we do. But the point is taken. To say looking at is not the right way. Theyre he actively pursuing every opportunity that they can expedite that and give that reciprocity for every area they can. So what you can take away from this hearing, all he have support, and the sooner the better . Bipartisan support. No, i appreciate that. Thank you, to mr. Chair. I appreciate the discussion, because you can see this is a topic that were all very passionate about, and again, Service Members are great fit for the organization. And so we want to see active engagement. We want to see progress in this area. And if there is a way that we can engage and do a better job at that, we need to. We need to. So thank you. I would like to thank my Committee Members for engaging in that discussion as well. And chief morgan, i would like to go back. You had acknowledged earlier in this hearing that a number of the uacs are released into the interior of our country. Which is concerning. I have grave concerns about hour our government handles those uacs once they cross the border, and ill give you a specific example. There was a uac named edwin majia who came across the border. He went on to kill a young woman, sarah root, who is from iowa, was from iowa. And we learned that hhs had lost track of him once he had been released to his brother. Now, this gentleman has gone on to who knows where. We are uncertain where this person is. And unfortunately, the family of sarah root has not been able to see justice. And it is hard to say whether they will receive justice in their life times. Sarahs was unfortunately cut very short. So i understand the difficulty of the problem that we have when it comes to pulling factors, and i would like to make sure that we are addressing those poll factors that will pull others into our nation. But i also want to take a look at those push factors, too. Youve identified a number of reasons out there. Drug interdiction is one. We have people consuming drugs here in the country. Theyre getting drugs into our country. We do have many counter drug Training Centers all across the United States. One is camp dodge, iowa. For the midwest region. Can you speak a little bit to the involvement of our Iowa National guard and National Guards all across the country, air and army, and counter drug programs . Is that beneficial to your organization . It kind of goes back to the operation phalynx. Any time we can, it is a good thing. So were able to do that. It is absolutely been a positive impact. Very good. And thats something that you believe that we should continue to invest in . Yes, maam. If you talk, i was i forgot what sector i was at, i one of the pilots was a National Guard pilot as well. So we had a really good dialogue. He actually let me fly the helicopter for a little bit. Im not sure i was supposed to say that. But he had a really good dialogue, and what he talked about was he actually felt that the National Guard members, he wasnt sure who got more out of it, whether the Border Patrol or the pilots participating in it, because thats about as realistic training as you can get to support the Border Patrol operation. It truly is a win win. Very good. I appreciate it. Thank you very much for your time here. We had a lively discussion. But if certainly there are things we need to do better as congress, we need to know what those things are and how we can enable you. Thank you for your time and attention this morning. Thank you. Senator peters. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to both of our witnesses for your service to our country, and your work and it is a difficult job that you have. I know both of you are fairly new to the position. Youre both also very seasoned, so you have hit the ground running. And i thank you for that, chief morgan, and deputy chief provost as well. We spoke a little before the hearing and im particularly impressed with deputy chief p provo provost. The perspective you bring from the field will be very much a appreciated. So thank you both for what you do. Chief morgan, i know as you have been diving into this job, you have been focused on making a priority to to visit patrol offices all across the country. Has the senator from michigan, i hope that will be a priority to get to michigan as well in the northern border, which represents a number of unique challenges, and certainly every region of the country, we can talk about our unique challenges. One in particular for us is the great lakes environment in michigan, and the fact that we have seasons, and winter, and in fact, weve had from previous hearings, talking about protecting the maritime environment and heard from cpp as well as the coast guard, when you have thick ice cover, you can then walk across the larger parts of that border, the coast guard ships, even if they have icebreakers, wont be able to have that monitoring system. So there are unique challenges for you and im sure you are aware already, but youll learn more about that when you go to michigan. Ill going ask you a direct question. Are you planning on doing that soon . Good to be in the winter, when you see the ice itself. As to some of those challenges. The other thing i wanted to pick on too, to pick up on both senator baldwin and bookers concerns, as you know, michigan a very diverse state, large latino population, but particularly urban american, muslim americans. There are folks who are fearful about what the future may hold for them. It is a real concern that we need to deal with. Ive heard from my stakeholders, particularly stakeholders in this debate from southeast michigan, around detroit where we have large concentrations from folks all over the world. Weve been appreciative of the Border Patrol and the local sector chief there. The these meetings i understand have gone a long way to building trust. There has been very positive things that have come out of that. And so they asked me to encourage you to continue that kind of open dialogue, and perhaps to get feedback as youre starting this position, how do you see that kind of communication continuing with sector chiefs, other things you would like to see that we can go further in . Yes, sir. Absolutely, in fact, were starting a new unit strategic communications. It is really all things communications, both internal and external. It is harder to hate up close. We have to get out there. Our leadership has to get out there. Ive gone around to, again, 11 sectors and many stations, and the packs that ive talked to leading the way, agents out there, it is not just the leadership. You go there and it is an individual relationships that the agents have the ranchers, with the community. They go so far. And helping that perspective. Really bringing everybody together. So the more we talk, the more we can be involved is a positive thing, and ive encouraged that were day one and will continue to encourage that. Thats wonderful to hear. If i may, we can be involved when you come to michigan, let us know when air there. Perhaps we could assist in connecting you with some of groups of individuals who have concerns that would love to have the opportunity to meet you personally and to have a discussion about some of their experiences, if we could facilitate that, we would certainly appreciate that. Yes, sir. I think thats been some of my most informed discussion ive had sitting down and breaking bread with the ranchers, talking tots community, absolutely. So well absolutely do that. Right, well, i appreciate that. I also want to pick up on senator ayotte talked about the northern border act and i worked with her on that. It is now through both house and the senate. And chief morgan, you mentioned some aspects of what we are concerned about to make sure the resources are being appropriately allocated, both to the southern border and northern border. Talked about the in order earn border strategy and how we have to have a threat based approach. Look at that and not just the numbers. And so i would like you to just talk to that a little bit more, dive in a little deeper in the fact that i know you have resource constraints, youve got to be in both place, the northern border is considerably longer. How is that being done now, and your idea that we need to be more focused on threat based issues, how do you see that changing . Is there anything we need to do here at the congressional level to help you make those kinds of informed decisions that are going to ensure we have proper resources both in the south and in the north . Yes, sir. So there a couple of things going on right now. There is one initiative called the c gap. It is a process, a pretty decent process that were going through that should tell us where our resources are needed, regardless of only numbers. Really, again, looking at it in a holistic approach. Were doing the same on personnel, prd. It is a system to look at a personnel needs on a series of factors. As im reviewing that, though, the challenges i have with that is it is really, i find those systems to be a little bit too much focused on the activity base, meaning numbers. And so i am asking questions about those to make sure that were pushing the thread in there. Somehow, again, i use that analogy of the 100,000 six year olds, and the way we measure it now, the output is the same. We need to adjust that, and we need to look at the so what. Those numbers. Part of that is a northern border. If you look at that the numbers are relatively low of apprehensions. We need to make sure at that were looking at in a different way, reframing that. It is not just about numbers. Thats going to be a cultural shift for the organization. But we need to make sure that were doing that going forward. And i think one thing that can help here, when we Start Talking about personnel, what we did in the past a little bit and what i see, im concerned that we shouldnt do it the same, we talk about personnel, were talking about badge toeters. When we have a discussion about the personnel, we need to, and i had that in my opening comments, well, the kind of personnel. So i think we need some more intelligence analysts as well to help us, you know, frame out that thread based driven approach as well, so the needs arent just Border Patrol agents. Im not saying we dont need the agents, but we need other demographics as well. Thank you, my time is expired. Thank you. Senator tester. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you both for your service. Appreciate you being here today. One of the problems that Customs Border protection has is it was toward the bottom of the list for best places to work. Six months since chief. Have you initiated any kind of programs to help bring that up . Yes, sir. So the fed survey, which everybody is familiar with, the federal employee goes out there, we took that, and i think it just scratches the surface. It is a single narrow data point. We came up with this Human Capital survey team. We brought duluth, a couple from the outside, talked to 900 people, mechanics, sector chiefs, and did a deep dive. We brought back leader, and a deeper dive to hear what the agents are saying, their concerns are. Weve developed several recommendations, and actually, i think the email is on my desk waiting for it to go toout to t work force, enumerating what the recommendations are and put action teams together to action that. Were looking at, and part of that, so the pay, right, thats hard. The more i learn about that, i just shake my head. And so what were trying to do is where we can, influence change. Ill give you an example. So canine. So i get in there and the canine, i think the Border Patrol does it right. They take the dogs home, theyre bonded, together. The dog is better, the handler is better. We say yes, take them home. It is a good thing, but then we dont pay them for the time spent taking care of the dogs. I dont think thats right. Right now, it takes a legislative change to get that. Thats something we need your help on. Thats just one example within vapra that were looking at. We worked on the pay issue before, we can work on it again. As you look at the overall structure, do you believe that the top management versus the folks on the ground, that you have the right ratios . You know, i am a hesitant to use taking a look at. But so i again, four months, i am taking a look at that. Ive talked to the union about that as well. They have echoed their concerns about that ratio. So im collecting data on that. Okay. So we talked a little bit about staffing on the northern border and i think the process that you go through to hire folks can be pretty long, pretty cumbersome. Do you have any recommendations to expedite that process . I think that really probably is something that we really need to bring back the Human Resources people to give you the details. I can tell you, they have done an incredible job. Theyve cut that in half. Theyve developed they cut the time in half already . Yes, sir. One example is so they developed these hiring hubs. So instead of going to five different locations to do all these, you go to one spot and knockout like six steps in the process. Yeah. So my suggestion is we need to do more of that. Okay. And continue that. We need to look at the military and see where we can do reciprocity and stuff like that. Another thing that i would say, i think the best recruiter for the United States Border Patrol agent is the United States states Border Patrol agents. If you look at the Border Patrol, they did a darn good job. Im dedicated to make sure were allocating more resources to hire Border Patrol agents. All right, so, again, a number of people on the northern border here, north dakota, we have a hard time keeping folks, best place in the world to live, just people dont know that. The question is when you come to recruit, do you have a plan to recruit in some of those more frontier areas that youre not going to be able to go to the opera, see a pro football game, but by gosh, youre going to see a pretty good antelope . Whenever this job ends, i may move up there. After my tour. Well put you to work if you do. So yeah, were working with hrm where we can get better, better focused recruitment events. Can i make a discussion . You got a ton of Small Schools and big schools by montana and north dakota standards on the northern border. A lot of people dont know about the Career Opportunities in the Customs Border protection. Quite frankly, if you were able to get ahold of the counselors and even make appearances, you are a going get people that not only live there, but want to live there to do the job you do. Like you said, if you can have other people that wear the uniform go up and talk to the kids about the opportunities, i think youll be successful. States like montana, we serve in the military higher. North dakota is probably ahead of us. So thats just a suggestion. Stone garden grants, we talked about this yesterday. You talked about how important they are. How defish shedeficient is the garden grant . Is it about where it needs to be . Too high . I dont know. I havent done a deep enough dive. I can say when ive gone out to every single sector, it is just resounding from the chiefs and sheriffs that are participating in the program. Theyre like more. So i need to do a deeper dive for me to be able to tell you that. What i hear from the sector chiefs and from the Law Enforcement chiefs, it is a great program, and they want more. Okay, and another question along the same lines, youve got farmers and ranchers that know the property like the back of their hand. Do you have, does your agency have an Outreach Program to make sure theyre on board . I can give you an example. Ten years ago when i got this job, we went up to the northern border and there wasnt a very good relationship. That has changed over the last ten years. Is there outreach being done to those farmers and ranchers to let them know theyre appreciated and they can be eyes and ears to help you out. From what ive seen, i can absolutely say yes. Ive seen, ive gone in there and see the agents on the line and the relationships they have with those folks, with the landowners and ranchers. Ive seen it first hand. Is there always room for improvement, absolutely. Were doing citizens acmademies as well, but yes, sir, thats happening. In closing, i would say this. This committee and the Appropriations Committee are very open to make sure you have the resources you need to keep the country safe. Along the northern as well as the southern border. We need to have the information. And when it comes to recruitment, when it comes to whether we have the technological manpower, we need to have that good information, otherwise well make bad decisions. So i dont know what you are allowed do, but do what you can, so people know what the challenges are on both borders. Senator langford. Thank you both again for the Ongoing Service youve had for a long time and what you continue to have. I have a whole series of questions and ill try to get through as many as i can. Chief, youve been there for a whopping six months now and made a lot of progress and dug in a lot in looking a lot of things at this point, and we appreciate that very much. Before you came in about five months before, in january of this year, the Inspector General put out a report on the special Operations Group program, it is a program that was budgeted 8 million and came in at 33 million, in the Inspector General came back and said there are no metrics attached or oversight. Are you familiar with that report that predated your leadership there . Are you familiar with the report . If you are, can you comment . If not, can you followup and what progress is being made there . Im not, and i will followup. Okay, fair enough on that. Okay, in your statement that you put in, you made a comment, it was kind after an offhand comment, but interesting. You mentioned voluntary return and you put a comma, the least effective and efficient ineffective inefficient consequence about voluntary return. Can you give me additional detail about that. Voluntary return, if you look back in time, basically just that. We would apprehend somebody at the border and say, okay, go back. What that caused, agents back in the day, what that meant was an agent could actually end up apprehended the same person three or four times in the same shift because there was no consequen consequences, no deterrents. To do a v. R. Today just doesnt make sense. So whats the alternative there . Is that something we need to fix in the statute . I think statutorily, i guess we could have a dialogue to remove that as an option in its entirety. It has been a concern and a lot of dialogue about what you said. You savol tarry return, someone picked up at the border. They know it before, coached what terms to use, whether fear or asylum or different statem t statements or voluntary return. Theyre able to cross right back over the border gen, come back and move a mile down the road and get picked up again. How many times do you think that should be allowed, you know youre dealing with a person aware there is a border there and aware they crossed the border illegally. Should they be able to do that five times sflchblt 10 tim . 10 times . 20 times . For the United States border, never. There should be a consequence that leads to deterrence. Do you have anything . No. I would echo what the chief is s saying. We do utilize much more removal which has been a huge benefit for us in the last decade. You both mention youre concerned about terrorism and terrorist activities or materials moving across the border as well as drugs. We talked quite a bit about Border Smuggling and human smuggling and terrorism in your initial statement. Can you give us additional detail about that . Challenge in an unclassified setting. Ill go back to that threat driven intelligence approach. We spend a lot of time talking about uacs and family units. I dont see that 6yearold at midnight as a National Security threat. Going to the northern border, there are stops, open source. We know there are individuals in canada selfradicalized. We know that. Connections in the International Terrorist organization thats open source. That type of threat concerns me. When were dealing with our matrix and strategies, again, not only do we have to talk about those numbers because thats always a component. That threat, what i can say, there are threats out there that concern me. Let me dig a little bit de deeper. You asked a couple times what you need. You mention partnerships, cooperation, can i take that to the next level, what does Partnership Mean . Additional personnel . Colocating in situations . Is that materials . What is needed when you talk abo aboutditional partnerships and cooperation . Oall of that. Senator portman mentioned to you, his request, let me add to it as well. Can you submit back to us in writing for us to be am in ble our job effectively, we think we need this . This gives us greater clarity. Even with Technology Needs there has been greater experimentation with technology and variety in experimentation, whether unm unmanned or helicopter and aircraft and fixed wing, which are the most effective, do we need to maintain all of these. Is there a certain one more effective than others, all of that for this committee to help you be the partner you need. Let me back up to technology and aircraft. There has been a lot of debate, fixed wing, rotor, unmanned, what is the most efficient least cost in it to get best bang for the buck and other technology pieces that are actually getting you a good return now. We go back four years ago we were spending a billion dollars on a program that didnt work. What technology is working . Yes, sir, i agree with everything you said. Its so unique one size doesnt fit all sector to sector. There can be areas rotaring aircraft is effective unmanned and a small aircraft is more effective. We have to use the money wisely and part of the cgap process i talked about, Capabilities Initiative were doing. Were well under way with that and i think will provide this committee exactly that information. We do need additional stuff, operational assets. The horses, k9, et cetera, technology more, infrastructure, yes. On the bodies, its a little tougher to say right now what we need and how much and where and were working through that. Terrific. That report will be finalized when . Im not sure. Give me a guess, a year, 10 years . Fy17. Can i ask you to take into consideration sustainment. A lot of conversation, this is what we need and the next question, how many people does it take to maintain that longterm and keep that to the ongoing conversation. Again, i appreciate what youre doing and thanks for the extra 20 seconds, mr. Chairman. Senator. Thank you, mr. Chairman and thank both of you. Elearlier this month i visited portal. Talked about it a lot because were particularly challenge in this area whether which sector in terms of personnel. Its absolutely critical we have an employment plan. I want to reiterate what senator tester already said and i think we can find good folks already there. Senator langford and i held a hearing where we talk about employment regarding recruitment of millennials and your Personnel Officer from dhs came with a new burst of energy. Were looking forward to hearing her report and what shes doing, some really creative ideas. I do want to point out again the northern border. The bill that will inevitably get signed into law by the president , hopefully in the next couple of weeks, will put demands on you to inform the public and inform this committee and the congress about what those threats are. What it takes in terms of personnel and equipment and technology to basically meet those threats. I want to once again encourage you to not only meet the deadline in the bill but maybe bring it in a little early because, as you can see, there is a great deal of concern and a great deal of publicity now about whats happening on the northern border. With that said, i want to talk about dan. We had a great conversation yesterday and i want you to talk about what youre doing with your counterparts in canada that can in fact expand more personnel and situational awa awareness. We have a huge advantage in this northern border we dont have in the southern border a trusted partner, if you could give us a rundown on your work with canadian officials, that would be great. Yes, maam. A couple different issues out there. We talked about yesterday the International Border Enforcement Team there a mix of canadian Law Enforcement and u. S. Forces, mainly Border Patrol. Theres a few others here and there. Its a great initiative. Its part of, you know, the quintessential task force environment. Theyre trusted allies and served to be effective. We need to continue to expand on that. When it comes to National Security intelligence information thats probably an area we need to continue to expand on. The communication flow can be a little cumbersome at times and has to get to the National Level and doesnt get as expeditiously it should. Both sides recognize that and working towards that. Were looking for more opportunities where we can actually do integrated operat n operations, more of that its not just about sharing information intelligence, its actually taking that, analyzing that and actioning that into true Network Operations and cross the border and do more of that. Were doing some of that. We should and can do more of that going forward. Those are just a couple efforts were doing. I want to reiterate what youve been talking about earlier, there are tasks being performed by guys and gals we wearing badges that really could be done by other professionals, especially as it relates to the unaccompanied minors issue. Just really encourage when youre looking at this report to look very closely at those tasks the guys in green should be performing and where we can transfer out. I will be really specific on this. It does concern me. One of the biggest concerns from the Border Patrol agents i talked to when i was at portal is communications. Many time on the border youll get bounced off a canadian tower and in north dakota. Theyre out there with no cell coverage and radio coverage. That is not a formula for success, especially when they have to rely on the sheriff to give them backup when they encounter an event. Can you please look into communications on the northern border, especially remote locations . We owe it to those people who put on a badge and walk out the door everyday, their family not knowing philosopif they will co and we want to give them the best equipment. I want to turn to the southern border because i spent a fair amount of time down there. Chief, you will probably laugh at this, can you paint your cars a different color than white . You did . But im serious about this. I think that obviously, not that you should be clandestine. If youre a spotter on a hill in mexico and youre walking some drugs across the border and you see a white truck coming on the border, its pretty easy to radio down to the guys carrying the con thetraband and say avoi this or that. I do think theres some advantage to having a vehicle that is less likely to be spotted. We know this happens. Theyre up on the hill, right . Theyre watching you every minute, especially if theyre movie ing product of any kind o value. Your ability to move in a way and respond to it in a way without Early Detection is valuable. Its just a thought and im passing it on from the folks on the southern border who look at this and say, this is a problem. I want to encourage you to continue and i know you have, im grateful for that, your ongoing outreach to the ranchers both on the southern border and northern borter, see somethingsay something. We have to create relationships where people are all in this together. I think you were down and visited with the ranchers on the southern border. Good reports coming back on that, chief, so thank you. Keep up the dialogue and open communication. Those guys know a lot. Theyve been on that land and know that land like the back of their head. Thank you for putting on that uniform everyday and doing some of the toughest work in america. Really appreciate it. I just have two further lines of questions, one about incenti incentives, we have no expedite removal for kids and family members from Central America j. If you get in the country, you stay. I want to talk about other incentives as well. What about sanctuary cities. To what extent does that incentivize people coming here, they have jurisdictions once theyre holing up here and wont be deported. Want to speak to that . I think from the perspective of the United States Border Patrol, when we look at those fact factors, i probably dont look beyond the fact of a notice to appear. Okay. More a question for it. C. E. . Yes, sir. Let me talk about the weis the smugglers, human traffickers really defede Border Patrol, for example using minors, overlo overloading the system, the claim was we dont prosecute unless its at least 500 pounds of marijuana. Talk a little bit about some of those, end up being incentives or impediments to enforcement. Yes, sir. Thresholds are always an issue. Each jurisdiction sets their own threshold for a variety of reasons of personnel and funding as well. You can see from one jurisdiction to another, different thresholds for basically the same activity and same amount. It can get frustrating. I think that can serve as a morale challenge for the rank and file out there risking their lives every single day and something what can appear to be an arbitrary threshold, thats a challenge. What about use of minors . What can possibly be done about that or what do we try and do about it . In relation to the amount of unaccompanied children, youre talking about, sir, coming in . No. Im talking about minors used as a drug front. Smuggled. Yes. That has been a tactic they have used as long as i have been in the Border Patrol. They do know at least criminally they will not receive a prosecution because theyre min minors. Thats a tactic that the dtos and asos drug traffic organizations and alien smuggling have used as long as i can remember specifically for that reason. If theyre a minor, theyre not going to receive a prosecution. Thats a difficult one for us, a tactic we Pay Attention to. I would not say it has increased. It is a common practice across the board when it comes to bringing groups in, local gui guides, as we call them. It works, unfortunately. Chief, you talked about morale, lets talk about issues of morale i hear about, the policies in terms of got aways, agents on the ground level, they have to call in the supervisor if there is more than 20. That creates then theyre pulled off, i dont know all the ramificati ramifications, sounds like it creates a huge incentive not to report got aways more than 20. Can you speak to that . Yes, sir. At this point i have a challenge with some of the majors and matrix were doing, not just impact it has on agents perception and reality on that. Really, is it really capturing what it should be capturing . So we are unfortunately i will use the word again, i am taking a look at that from a holistic approach. Yes, ive heard some of the same concerns. Deputy chief provost, when i had the chief in my office, as i talked to secret service, i come from the street, when you have a continuous shift my way of th k thinking we need four shifts. We dont have that in Customs Border patrol. What is your viewpoint how we staff in the areas of custom Border Patrol for continuous shift. Right now you use three. In industry we dont do that. Why do you do that in government . For the most part we use three shifts, there are areas we use four shifts depending on the location and what works best. The individual sector and chief takes into consideration what works best and resources they have and as we know our men and women are a resource we utilize and have establish that Border Patrol agents work a 10hour day helps with the coverage for the shift changes, but there are areas where the remoteness of the border have an impact and we run four shifts in some of those locations. Do you see a difference in morale where you operate the four shifts . Do you find that works better for you . In my conversation with agents i have seen both sides of the fence. Some agents would prefr four shifts and some three. We try to look at it in what makes sense in that specific area of operations. I ask you work with me in that and take a look at it, something well worth exploring, looking into. In your joint testimony, i am concerned about this, your losses are currently ou patpaci gains, creating a downward staff trend and something we want to work with you on. In my final minute i want to address fencing because again, fencing works. A better wall works. It also will help relieve the personnel issues, too. We did pass the secure fence act. I dont think weve built the type of fence that will work and knot suggesting 1700 miles. I think we need better fencing in more areas, a quick comment on that. Yes, sir, i agree. I can give you a quick example off the top of my head visiting the san diego sector a few miles where they have primary fencing and secondary pedestrian fence. Not only did that work to stem the flow elsewhere, by doing so the chief told me at that point he was able to take 100 agents and put them elsewhere because it didnt require that level of deployment there. Go to another sector they told me at one point, the free market across on the u. S. Side had all but dried up, an area where they put fencing up and the flow had all but stopped now was a thr e thriving Shopping Center once again. It works on multiple levels, not just on the flow and our ability to do our job but has other aspects. Yes. Do we need more fencing . Yes. Does it work . Yes. Do we need it everywhere . No. Is it the sole answer . No. Its part of an overall multilayered strategy. Tongueincheek the fence is great but if we dont have access roads to get to the fence, its not as good. You and the deputy chief mentioned that. I hope you work with this committee as we move forward to identify where we do need additional fencing, how it should be design and how you have the roads in between the fencing to literally relieve the pressure from the standpoint of sta staffing. I guess, is my ill continue then. Again, i want to go back to incenti incentives. Oh, hes back. Ill let you go. Time short. Thanks so much. I have a couple of questions i will ask of each of you about leadership and how we can encourage more women to follow the path you set out on. If i can get a yes or no question, one of the questions was asked about fencing the walls. Sure, we need that. Make sure its done thoughtfully in ways that will actually contribute. You may have mentioned, chief morgan, somebody mentioned san diego, able to take 100 Border Patrol officers otherwise doing that and deploy them in other ways. Thats smart. What would also be smart is all these Border Patrol agents taking care of these kids, like daycare operators. That aint smart. One of the ways to reduce the need for doing that is for us to do our part to make sure those kids and bigger brothers and sisters have a future. I think Immigration Reform is part of the solution clooinclud the ability for those to come here and work for a while and go home unimpeded and go back timetotime. I think thats part of it and technology is part of it. And spotters. The idea of sitting up on piloted vehicles to be able to fly up there, identify these guys, if we want to bring in a direct fire on this, you can use that technology, whatever, figure out what works and do more of that. Part of what were asking you to do is tell us what you need moreorless of. I hope at the end of the day it actually includes the other side of the equation. The lesson we learned from mexico, we used to have tons of people from mexico, they dont come anymore. Theyre more going back into mexico. There is a reason for that because they have a future now and hope and solid middle class. We have been helpful insuring that happens to benefit them. Does that make any sense . If you say no, ill leave. Does that make sense . Everything you said makes sense, sir. Chief deputy . Yes, i concur with you. I want to conclude, if i can. Youre a breath of fresh air, we much appreciate your leadership and the way you approach this. As the chairman mentioned, early on this is probably the last hearing i will be the Ranking Member, just to say how much ive enjoyed working with him and all our colleagues, a real joy. Ill be a senior democrat and Ranking Member on public and environment works and look forward to supporting all my colleagues in this committee. I want to acknowledge the help of minority staff led by general killington and the help of the chairman. I cant mention them all, i want to thank each of them on my staff and our staff and his staff the way they Work Together and still Work Together even as we gather here today still working together to try to get things done before we adjourn. I particularly want to thank chris nixon. I want to thank gabby just gabby. Good gabby. Patrick bailey. David lucky, whos left us just a week or two ago, came and said goodbye. Brook erickson, david, and all the other folks on the chairman staff contributing in this congress and for our country. Finally, i want to thank laura. The best third baseman ive seen on the congressional softball team. In all the years ive been here she has an arm like a rifle. As long as shes here, were in good shape. And the chief and the committee and its been a joy and look forward to doing a lot more. Senator, it would be nice if everybody had nice simple names like yours. I want to thank you for many years of service to this nation, appreciated. Your thoughtful testimony and answers during questions and truly look forward to working with you over the next few years. Thank you. Thatting wi ing witbeing said tl remain open until 5 15 p. M. For filing of statements. This meeting is adjourned