Transcripts For CSPAN3 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20150501

And each instance is unique. Each and every one is totally unique with a unique set of circumstances. But in this one, given the timing given the lack of information about any credible threat, given all of the ramifications that may have taken place had shots been fired, i believe they acted quickly, bravely and heroically. Before the gentlemen yields back. I got to ask you a question. Ive asked you directly in closed doors and in here whether or not you had somebody with a gun trained on these people that could take them out of the air and yet when mr. Cummings asked the same question in a different way you said no. You told me yes. What is it . We clearly have officers out there with weaponry. In this instance with the gyro copter coming at the capitol did you . And it may have been brief. I you said understand you didnt get much advanced warning. Right. But did you or did you not have guns trained on this gyro copter. Did they have guns on him in this instance. As he was landing. So he was in the air. I would say as he landed. This is why we got to talk to the people who are actually yeah. Reclaiming my time just very quickly. How far was he from the ground . Picking up on where the chairman left off. How far was he from the ground, if you know when you had an opportunity, when the Capitol Police had opportunity to shoot him down. I believe the officer first saw him when he was right above grand statue which is seconds from when he landed. Very well. I yield back. We need further clarification of that. Well now recognize the gentlemen from florida for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman and Ranking Member for holding this meeting. What weve experienced just with this incident is again another horrible Communications Failure of the system. And this isnt new. The Ranking Member just cited back in october of 2013. We had the deranged individual, a woman who actually backed into someone at the white house, came across the entire distance of downtown metropolitan d. C. Went through the barriers and the communications failed. Chief dine i wrote you on october 8th right after that. I said we all appreciate and commend your actions. Im contacting you to request your response about concerns highlighted in this tragic act. Number one it is my understanding the secret service, Capitol Police, park service and district of Columbia Police and other agencies have interoperable communications. We spent a quarter of a billion when we did the Capitol Visitor Center in redoing ballards and all of the things after 911. And that failed. Those Communication Systems failed. They failed again. Im stunned. I still this is how we get a warning, okay . This device still has not gone off to this instance. My office is right down the hall here. I overlook. My desk faces out so i can look at the capitol lawn. Im sitting there at 1 20 watching whats coming down. And im on the phone and there is a Police Vehicle not on the road but on the path but coming up the grass. Another officer with his i mean a pretty powerful weapon. Ive got pictures of it. We snapped some of the pictures of it. I said to the staff i dont know what is going on but something is coming down. We never heard a thing. This is the first communication that i got. Let me get the exact communication. I think it was 1 well actually it wasnt until 5 02. Tariffs no there was no notification. This is a message from the sergeant of arms. The capitol have cleared the police activity. We never knew what was coming down. Granted a week before on saturday the 11th. We had incredible notice. Were you here mr. Chairman. No one was hear it was a serious situation someone ended up committed suicide. It worked very well. This thing went crazy. My enunciator went crazy. I got lots of notice but it is working some of the time not all of the time, isnt that right chief dine . It now will work all the time sir and your point is well taken and again i dont think i got a response from you. I asked the staff, where is my letter to dine from the last incident . A lot of people wanted to sweep this under the table. It was an embarrassing situation. But it cant happen again. Faa, a gyro copter can left how many pounds . A small 254 pounds right is it. Its weight is about but it can lift about that much. Thats part of it fall swooss into a category. So you can have a 200 pound individual flying it say . So what capacity does that leave 50 pounds. Its very small capacity. No one knew wafs on the helicopter. You didnt know. Did anyone know what was on the helicopter . We were told some time ago but nobody collects the dots. We didnt know whether it was letters or in fact 50 pounds of plastic explosive. What would that do to the capitol building. It would be devastating. Devastating. So nobody knew wait a second too. I just heard today you said the faa Domestic Network was notified. What time . Who knows when that is . About 1 34 in the afternoon. That was afterwards. After it landed. After it landed. Correct. So there is wrong there on the domestic faa notice. Something wrong with the notice on the Capitol Police. 1 23, you had the guy under arrest. We never knew. I mean im not afraid. Ive been here through 9 11. If they want to take me out, take me out. Give me a chance. Give our staff a chance. Give us notice. Make this thing work. Okay . Again i dont think its too much to ask that we get this thing right. And there is a lot at stake, not just saving members of congress. Weve got new threats. I brought up the drone before the drone landed on the white house. The white house they still dont we had another jumper didnt we just recently . How long before we get the fence increase. I told you weave got a great welder. Ive got the name of adt. We can get them in here to put in systems but we still dont have the fence secure do we. How long sir in the summer the attachment will be attached this summer. Okay. Yield back the balance of my time. Thank the gentlemen. Now recognize the gentlemen from massachusetts mr. Lynch for five minutes. Before you do that this letter has to be in the record at this point. This is my letter to chief dine. Ask unanimous consent to do that the only email i got at 5 00 after it was all over. And one more thing. Would you yield just a second for the benefit of members . I sent you back and i was told afterwards staff said you didnt get it. I have searched my messages to see if an alert was sent out on this incident . The staff told me we cant respond to you that you only send these alerts out. So i sent this out the same day after the well the day after the incident finding out if anything had been sent and i missed it. But there is no way for us to contact you. We need a way to contact you. Thank you. Were going to recognize the gentlewoman from the district of colombia for five minutes. Thank you. This is an important hearing. You cant have an incident like this and not have a hearing. And i know that witnesses understand this. I certainly appreciate the work they do. And i think essentially gentlemen, the problem you are facing is getting ahead of risks and threats that may be unbelievable. But that is what the congress and for that matter the public expects you to do. I mean we are fortunate that that gyro copter didnt have a chemical or an explosive in it. And of course we know that you knew it did not. And we know and this is why i have a question first. I believe we know that it was not possible for existing technology that keeps the violation of an air space, that we can go we can catch a helicopter. We can catch a small plane. But technically do we have the technology to capture wigamados that apply below that air space that is more typical . What the faa provides to the surveillance capability is radar feeds. And radar that the faa uses for our purposes to separate air traffic is filtered to ensure that that controller is able to safely separate traffic transiting the regions airports and air space. This very small of aircraft flying through is not something that the controller would ordinarily pick up in the course of carrying out their aircraft separation activities. So you see im not going to ask Law Enforcement on the ground to do the impossible. But i am going to ask Law Enforcement on the ground to tell us ahead of time what the impossible is. Were asking you to do star wars type thinking about who could fly like you fly a kite. And if we dont think about it, we know who will be thinking about it. So i am interested in separating out what is technically possible and what is technically not possible. And i want to know why congress hasnt been asked for the capability to fly below that usual air space where by the way if anybody gets into that air space we send National Guard planes up in the air right away instantly. If we dont have the ability to do something tantamount to that then the only people who really know it who can get ahead of the game for us are those of you who are on the ground who dont have that capability. And who therefore have to think about risks that only Law Enforcement frankly has the capability to envision. And i want to know why the congress hasnt been asked for that for the means to provide that capability . Congresswoman norton what i was referring to is the faas surveillance capability that is provided to this whole government effort. The entire network is not limited to that and i would defer to my colleagues from dod. Im prepared to answer that for you but i need do that in a closed session. It would be very important to know can we do it. To say to people on the ground if you see it in a few seconds, take it down. That is not what happens if i try to fly a helicopter into the air space. So it seems i want to give you the same capabilities, same time that those who have tried to pierce our air space have found they just cant do it. So we dont see you having to shoot down much up there because you have the technology to do it. And in closed session we need to know that and we need to know it now. And one of the reasons we need to know it now is the first thing i find that officials do when they dont have the capability is they keep the public out. And we know how to make sure nobody gets hurt and nobody gets in. Im not accused you of doing that but i have to tell you it is often the first reflex. We seem to work on a casebycase basis. Now we know probably that chief dine that our Police Officers because he said they saw it only a few seconds and then they had to get themselves together. But the casebycase way assures us that there will be a terrible thing to happen and then we take care of it. Im trying to find out if we can get the capabilities before you have the obligation even to do something about it because it hasnt occurred yet. And i will be interested in that in closed session. But i am interested in closing down the capitol. When anthrax occurred i had to goen en go on the house floor and literally embarrass the police to get the capitol open. It was closed for months because the Capitol Police couldnt think of a way to keep it open. It was terrible to have the capitol itself close. And i want to make sure. I have seen no evidence that the capitol is being closed those grounds are being closed. And i want assurance that that is not taking place. Thank you the gentle woman. Anyone conveyor to comment on that . Can people go where they were able to go before . Yes, maam. Thank you very much. The gentlemen from michigan for five minutes. Thank you chairman and thanks to the panel for being here. And i think we understand you have to be right all the time and they have to be right once. So we appreciate the fact of what you deal with. However this i just have relatively flu questions that could be asked without going into some closed session. First of all to director clancy, im having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that secret service had recognition of this gentlemen and his intersection to fly here intentions to fly here and land on the capitol. Some time before 2014 in fact early 2014 that secret service interviewed mr. Hughes based upon some information he was putting out back in august, september and october of 2013. So with that in mind. With that lead up to it. Plus the day of the flight there was also phone calls made from the tampa newspaper to secret service. My question is did the secret Service Share all the information that it should have with other relevant Law Enforcement agencies with responsibility for the d. C. Air space . Yes congressman. On october 4th our Denver Field Office did get a call from an individual who knew of mr. Hughes plan. This is october of 2013. We relayed that information to our partners at Capitol Police and that day we also the following day we went and interviewed that individual to get more details. As we got more details we realized mr. Hughes the subject here, lived in tampa bay. We sent our agents down there to interview him. He denied any interest in any of our protectees. Denied any interest in the white house and denied any he had no indication that he would be flying up in the washington d. C. Area. We did do additional interviews with the Additional Associates who corroborated the first call we received in denver that he did have some aspirations to do this. But again there was no indication any of our protectees or any of our protective facilities were that he had the intent to to this. But we did share the information. But you shared it with with them. So chief dine you had that information back in early 2014 that there was an individual of interest at least that had some idea to fly and bring letters to congress in a very unusual way . Yes, sir. The secret Service Shared that information with us. And yes, sir. What did Capitol Police know about mr. Hughes and his intentions prior to him landing on the Capitol Grounds zwoent getting this information . What else came through that should have highlighted something happening . Subsequent to us that being case essentially closesed or suspended by us and the secret service, nothing up until minutes before he landed. As i had mentioned earlier. We got a fairly cryptic email and a phone call that was not date or time specific talking about whether or not were we aware of this and whether or not he had a permit. Thath that was literally minutes before he landed. April 15th as im seeing a timeline here. An individual made a call to secret Services Tampa field office to warn of hughes plan. Was that information shared with you . Sir, on october 15th. We received a call from an individual who did not give any time or date or specifics this was april 15th that i have here. April 15th yes, sir. Okay. An individual had called our Tampa Bay Office and asked specifically for a specific agent. We said the agent is no longer assigned to the office and this individual said well just let him know i called. There was no specifics to mr. Hughes or this flight. So the Tampa Bay Times then reporter called secret service on april 15th at 1 00. Thats correct, sir. He landed at 1 23. So weve got 23 minutes still. Was there any notification. Let me ask chief maclean to join in as well. Any notification that someone indeed is starting this flight, on his way, is livestreaming it, he may be coming over your territory . Is there any action that can be take even with the park service in stopping someone flying low . To answer the first part of the question the United States park place did not have an aniationableany ax actionable prior. Leaves me with great concern that when information is given crack pot or otherwise and then the day of the event takes place we have information that is given. And still this person is able to make it all those miles and more importantly across the restricted air space. Coming across our monument area, coming across leading up to our capitol itself and then lands and nothing happens until this person is on the ground. I yield back. Thank the gentlemen. Now recognize the gentlemen from massachusetts mr. Lynch for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman, i thank the Ranking Member. This is not good. This is on top of a lot of other incidents that weve been talking about at the white house as well. You know i get the feeling that just as before 9 11, if you visited an airport in the United States we had very little security going on. Yet if you visited bengurian airport or Leonardo Davinci airport or heath row, those countries had dealt with terrorism before us. And they were all tooled up. They had heavy weapons and metal detecters and yet we were lulled into a false sense of security. I get the sense that were behind the curve again. You know you visit any of these committees involved in hardening our facilities overseas. And you go into any major capitol in europe or the middle east or africa. And they are taking precautions that we are not. And it is and i know there is a balance between Public Access and security. But we have gotten to the point where i am worried about the president. Im worried about his family. Im worried about the security on the grounds here at the capitol. Im worried about the Supreme Court across the street. And i just have to say that, you know, we had advanced notice. Albeit you had to connect the dots and you had to talk to each other. This was not good. And a fellow has been able to fly in here and land a gyro copter on the lawn. It is not good. And i know we got a bunch of reasons why it happened and seems like we got some excuses. But that is just not good enough. And i have a lot of respect for the panel. Individually. But and i dont know if its a lack of communication between departments, but we got to do better. Dear god we got to do better. Is there anything that weve done since this guy landed the gyro copter on the lawn. Is there anything that weve done that we would do differently if that were to happen today and someone with nefarious intent a terrorist, were to do same same damn thing . So were doing basically the same thing that we were doing when this guy did his thing. We need change. We need change. And i dont know you know mr. Clancy, i got enormous respect for you and the job that you do. I really do. But can you tell me what you need to make the white house safe, the capitol safe, the Supreme Court safe with respect to the air space that you are charged to guard . Yes, sir. Before i address that i would just like to say in this particular incident, we believe in this as a team effort. Certainly among the members of the panel. But certainly among the American People too. And the department of Homeland Security has this initiative for see something, Say Something. People said something. People said something. A few people said something. And we all saw something. And some of your colleagues saw things. Or their employees saw things. And this still went forward, right to the door of the capitol. Thats what gets me. And there were a lot of the public that were exposed to potential danger. So, you know, people bringing their families here. So it is not just, you know, self preservation here among members of the congress. Were worried about the general public as well. Yes, sir. And you are exactly right sir. And i think if for example the Tampa Bay Times had informed us prior to departure of this aircraft we could have had a Response Team at gettysburg or Law Enforcement would have. Or if we were notified a day in advance. Days in advance. We could have had Law Enforcement down in florida. So i think that is part of that team effort. But in terms of your question sir im sorry. Well, look if your officers are on the ground or your agents are on the ground and they see what are the orders just as a very basic level. What are if orders for a Capitol Police officer or secret Service Agent if there is an object flying towards the capitol . Are we still stand and watch . Are we still passive . Or are they under orders to do something . For the secret service ill just say that first it is communication. And then we take a defensive posture. Our initial we rely on the radar that we see and the communication to take a defensive posture. If we need to move any of our protectees or any of the guests protected by our facilities. That is our first move. That doesnt work very well with a suicide bomber or Something Like that though. You know obviously, you know, you shelter in place to the degree you can. But. Yes, sir. I dont know. I just think that maybe we got talk about this more in a classified briefing. But this cannot stand. I yield back. Gentlemen yield. Thank you very much. I got to ask you this. This is getting to be very painful. Mr. Clancy you said that it is a team effort. I agree. But the gentlemen just asked a question question. And the silence was chilling. He asked the question and im talking to all of you now. Are we doing and you can i just if it is classified information tell us and well deal wit. But with it. But i do need to know a yes or no. Have we done things now that put us in a better position than when we were on the day of the offense . And i dont want silence. It is not good enough. Sir i would the answer is yes and id be glad to discuss that in closed session. And has that been a team effort . Yes, sir. Very well. Thank you. I recognize the gentlemen from North Carolina, mr. Meadows for five minutes. Thank you plmp. Mr. Chairman. Let me pick up on this team environment. Prior to the incident how many times have all of you met as an agency to discuss new technology that may be a threat to the capitol or the white house or to other assets . How many times have you all met together prior to this incident to discuss that . Sir if i congressman if i can take that individually. I cant say that weve all met frequently at all. But there is a lot of work being done among the federal department so its not frequent. So how often . How many times have you done it . Where all of you have gotten together. You are the team. We know a lot about teams. The bad news bear wars team too and they didnt do real well. If i could our staffs Work Together every week. Have your staffs all been in a week to discuss that prior to this incident . And if so, how many times. Sir first of all do you know how many times . Have. Yes, sir. Twice a month meetings with our staff. To discuss the technology and what is different. Yes, sir. And if i could id like to take a little. What has been going on congressman is there is a national effort. The National Security staff has been leading an effort over the last year to look at uav in particular what we refer to as non traditional aircraft whether they are gyro copter, uavs or so you havent come up with an answer yet. We can put a man on the moon and fly a rover to mars. Cant we figure how to stop a postal work we are a gyro copter from coming into the grounds. The work being put in in the department of defense the department of security and transportation and recently the science and Technology Council fast tracked looking at technologies that could help. So when will we have a plan . Admiral, when will we have a plan to make sure this doesnt happen in case there is 50 pounds of plastic explosives. When we go to closed session ill show you what we have what were testing and what im not asking what the plan is, im asking when well have it. Sir i need do that in a closed session. Let me ask you a question because the silence is deafening. So if you get together twice a month, your staff, how many times have most of you or all of you gotten together to discuss your responses to this hearing . Did you meet as a group to discuss your responses to this hearing . Yes, sir we did. Yesterday. So what you are saying is you all got together to discuss your response to this hearing. But yet you all dont get together necessarily individually your staffs do to discuss the protections of assets here. Congressmen. Yes or no. We do at the white house we have deputy level meetings. Is o all of you got together to discuss your responses to this hearing . When did you do that . Yesterday sir. Why would you do that if you were just wanting to be transparent, why would you try to coordinate your answers to this hearing . Are you more afraid of a government oversight in protecting the people . No, sir were not. So why would you have gotten together to discuss your responses if they were individual responses there . To talk about some of the lessons we learned sir. Talk about the lessons before you testify . That. No, sir. Preparing so. Mr. Clancy that your sworn testimony today . Sir we did talk about what we could talk about in the open hearing as opposed to a closed hearing. So was there any strategy to those discussions on what you would say and what you wouldnt say in terms of how you would look mr. Clancy. Sir. Before this hearing. The discussion was again what was could be talked about in open hearing and what could not be talked about in open hearing. My understanding is that it was a lot more strategic than that. Am i wrong . You and i have a Good Relationship a honest relationship. Was that discussed in terms of what you would say and not say . Terms of response to questions . No it was not. All right. So what was discussed . I think as you have heard from the other two gentlemen it was simply a discussion of what could be said in open versus yeah what i find concerning plyometric, what i find very concerning is all of you are willing to get together to discuss your testimony before coming here to be honest and yet the American People expect just honesty. And yet what we have is a coordinated effort to be a stone wall. It is concerning mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank the gentlemen. I need to add and i said in my opening, when we asked you all to come abbreviately brief four committees of congress, more than half of you said no. I really dont understand that. You can sit here and say were doing everything we can. This is the way our system works. It is inexcusable to me that you would refuse to come to congress a week after the attack and give us a brief. Three of you did but four of you didnt. And that is why you get questions like that. Because the time you did get together, nobody was in the room, sounds like you coordinated how to message this. And spent more time doing that than you did Briefing Congress being candid with us. I now recognize the gentlemen from pennsylvania mr. Cartwright for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. I thank also my colleague from massachusetts and wish to associate myself with his remarks when he talked about this is not astuff of the self preservation for members of congress. We think about not only ourselves but the people who come visit us from our districts and the young people who help do the work we do. Thousands and thousands of young people interns and fellows and employee s employees on capitol hill here and we feel responsible to them their nams and their parents to keep them safe. All of these people are within the special flight rules area. They are all within the National Capitol region flight area. And more than that the visitors who come and visit our national memorial, the world war ii memory memorial. The jefferson memorial. We just had the National Cherry blossom festival a couple of weeks ago. There had to be well over 100,000 americans visiting. All of those areas are within the special flight rules area, are they not . That is correct. An area that was traversed by this knuckle head with a gyro copter who could easily have been a terrorist. So we take it seriously a hearing like this. It isnt about ourselves. It is about all of the huge number of americans who are in the special flight rules area and the National Capitol region. And it is not just about gyro copters either. It is drones as well. Weve heard a lot about drones and the threat they could cause to our National Security. You know admiral, your testimony was you said this. What we now understand is that the gyro copter was detected by several of the integrated sensors as it approached and transited through the sfra, the special flight rules area. However the aircrafts flight parameters fell below the threshold necessary to differentiate aircraft from weather, terrain birds and other slow flying objects so as to ensure that the systems and those operating them focus on that which poses the greatest threat. You said we are in the early stages of conducting a thorough reconstruction and analysis of all aspects of this incident, including time lines, communications and sensored data. And you said identifying low altitude and slow speed aerial vehicles from other objects is a technical and operational challenge. Have i read that correctly, admiral . That is correct sir and i can go into greater detail on answering some of those questions in closed session. Well here is my problem. Like my colleagues up here on the dieas. I find it surprising and disappointing. These things are hardly new. The british army flew a drone as army as 1917 and here we are nearly a hundred years later and just starting to tackle the problem. I want to invite your attention to this question. When did the faa first begin to think that drones may be a security concern . Well the faa has specific direction from congress to swiftly integrate Unmanned Aircraft into the National Air Space system. That was included in the faa authorization actor of 2012. Since then weve published road map for integration and embarked upon a stage integration process to find ways to integrate these into the National Air Space system. But we do cooperate with our interagency partners on the larger question of what they may pose as a security threat. Our mandate and our direction is to find a way to integrate them so they dont pose a safety of flight issue. Back to you admiral gourdny. You said identifying these vehicles is a technical and operational challenge. Challenge is a nice word for problem, something that were really having a hard time with. So the question is how long have you known this was a challenge, admiral . Sir, weve been working gaebs low radar crosssection target for probably over 25 years. Ive been in the Aviation Business over 38. We can understand the problem and we can show you the solutions we have in place but i cant do it in open session. On a scale of 110 how urgent is this gentlemen, ten being the most urgent . Very. In the protection of United States and the canada and the Homeland Defense and it is my primary responsibility. And on a scale of 110 it is about a 50. I look forward to closed session. Thank you. Thank the gentlemen. Now recognize the gentlemen from South Carolina mr. Mulvaney for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. Im going to go about this a little bit differently. A little more straightforward. At any time did we have the ability to interdict and to shoot this guy down . Mr. Gortney . Admiral . No, sir we did not because we did not have a detection, our ability to track or positively identify it to cue our sensor. I i cant go any further. And i dont want to know anything we didnt do in public session. But we hear around here we had the ability but chose not to. Youre telling me thats not accurate. I need to go to closed session for that. Thank you. Then if the gentlemen had wanted to, he could have crashed into the capitol building, correct . Yes sir. And same is true for the white house or museums. If there was an intent, yes, sir. Okay. Would it have been different if it was a small single seat airplane . Yes, sir. A small single seat airplane size of a cessna or smaller we would be able to track that. We would. We track them and we have two incidents a month where we actually launch our helicopters on those things. Similar result had it been a drone or something smaller than the gyro copter. Thats correct sir. Who saw it first. An officer with the United States park police first. And fair to say you were the only ones at the table who didnt know about this guy in advance, right . We did not have norad didnt. We did not. So the secret service knew. Who else knew about this guy in advance . Park Capitol Police. But the park police did know about the guy. Okay. Let me figure out why he left from gettysburg . Given that any thought . Why would a guy drive from florida to pennsylvania to do this . Anybody got any thoughts on that . Does that make sense to anybody . There is a lot of private airports, small airports between florida and gettysburg. I think with an Ongoing Investigation both legal and technical i think it is difficult for us to answer that question. Fair enough. And my last question. It sound like most of the stuff i want to know well have to deal with in closed setting. Admiral gortney were you advised not to come i understood it to be a scheduling issue. We offered opportunity for the following afternoon and did not hear back. With that ill yield my time to the chairman. I guess we asked mr. Maclean and chief dine the same question but i assume the answer there. Im employee of the United States department of the interior and they were planning to schedule a properly a proper witness to come and attend. And i did attend the following day. Okay. Chief dine. Yes, sir i was here last week thats what i expected. Yield the balance of my time. Thank the gentlemen. Now recognize the gentlemen from North Carolina mr. Walker for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. I want to look at the time line again and make sure that im clear on it. Let me back up just for a second. How many different different agencies or departments were contacted at some point past or during the week of by the Tampa Bay Times reporter . Just by show of hands who had who did he reach out to . At any point. Secret service . Okay. All right. Chief, when did you first get contacted by the tampa daytimes . That same day a few minutes before he landed. Is that the 1 00 p. M. . 12 at and then 1 00 p. M. He lands at 1 24, 22 . 1 23ish. 1 23. So can you walk me with what you did in those 22 23 minutes . What is your first call just for my own education here. Yes, sir. 12 59 was the email. That email was quickly sent to our Investigative Division who began to try to pull up information and then called the command center. They talked to him a little bit and then that information was provided to our investigators, as well. When you say provided to your investigators, when you have somebody approaching the capitol in this unidentified flying object, for lack of better expression, what do you do when you get that information . That this is something that could be encroaching into the air space. What happens . What is your next step . What happened in this case is there was no information that this was happening as we spoke or imminent. There was no time or date provided. What they did do is do some research into the individual himself and check do see was there a waiver provided . We have a system to access that, as well. So any of these agencies that you contact once you hear that this is a possible situation, is there any communication between the different departments or agencies that this is a concern . In this instance, we contact the ncrcc. Once it came to fruition. Mr. Clancy, you said you got information on this, as well . Is that correct . Sir Tampa Bay Times called our Tampa Bay Office on april 13th but there was no specification regarding mr. Hughes gyrocopter. The question was would we be involved in civil disobedience by individuals and we said we would be if it was a protectee or a facility. There was nothing specific. Somebody talked about on the radar, distinguishable versus undistinguishable. Can somebody speak to that as far as help me understand that. An unfiltered radar feed picks up everything. It is cluttered with addition to aircraft will include things such as traffic on the streets birds. Anything that is moving around. And so for our purposes at the faa we filter it for our primary function which is to safely separate aircraft and filter out small things that might be a distraction to a controller. Now, what our forensic analysis showed was that the radar did indicate something after the fact that we were able to piece together is most likely the flight of the gyrocopter. But would you agree that after the fact may not be a good scenario. No. I would agree with that. But the point being that a air Traffic Controller cant do his job with a very cluttered screen. And so what were very focused on is how can we ensure that a controller is able to safely separate air traffic in our case. Yes, sir yes. Just a second. Can you answer your own question there . How can that be more safety conscious as far as getting through the clutter on his own screen . What we do is because what the things that were filtering out are things like birds or weather systems or small things that do not pose a threat to aviation safety. Now, we do provide the unfiltered radar to our partners across the government and each of the individual participants filters it for their own purposes. I want to have time for the admiral here but help me understand this. Is there not you would know this being the expert, if someone is flying a gyrocopter isnt that a different pattern of birds or other things flying around on a radar or faa system . As i testified to earlier, it appeared and disappeared. It actually had much more in common with a weather system. Okay. Admiral . Yes, sir. Characteristics on a radar of an aircraft of this size flying the speed and the altitude, it has the same characteristings of birds, of flocks of birds. It can appear the same way. So we adjust we take the feeds from the faa as well as our own sensors and then we adjust those filters based on the environmentals that give us the highest probability to pick up the smallest target thats a real target. Thank you. Mr. Chairman. I recognize the gentleman from georgia, mr. Carter for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. We appreciate the work that you do. Ive got just three very quick questions for you or maybe comments. First of all, mr. Clancy thank you for being here. I believe you were here a couple of weeks ago and i closed my comments with saying i hope i didnt see you any time soon and here we are again. Chief dine, i want to ask you. We had an incident in cannon. I believe it was last week where there was a suspicious powder that was found. And we had i know that my staff had four emails sent to them during that time. Yet in this situation, with the gyrocopter we only had one email sent to us and that was after the fact. Why the difference there . What what different scenario led us to that situation . The answer is that systems we had in place failed and we immediately fixed them. And i certainly understand your concern. So messages will be sent immediately now and i appreciate the fact that you acknowledge that we sent them in those other instances. We sent them in the other instances but we didnt with the gyrocopter . We sent some out but dleerly it was not comprehensive enough. Yes, sir. Youre correct. Okay. Gentlemen, it just appears to me that were not keeping up with the times. And i ive been sitting here and i hear what you say. That this needs to be discussed and confidential hearing and i get that. But im still not confident and i think the people want to be confident that we are keeping up with the times. Drones arent anything new. They have been around. And yet, all of a sudden were having all these instances. We read about japan and Prime Minister and Radioactive Material sent there. Thats scary and scary for me and scary for everyone. Are you comfortable and confident and i want you to assure the American People that you are, that we have got this under control. Sir, we can assure the American People that all of us at this table and the whole of government is working their very best to protect this nation and its citizens against the many threats that happen to be out there. And in closed session ill do what were doing about this particular threat. Does that mean its not going to happen again . I can never say its not going to happen again, sir. I understand that. The last thing. Is the communication, particularly among all of you, you know, look. Im a freshman rep. Ive been up here four months and but ive been in business for many years and i know that the communication is the key and you have to surround yourself with good people and you have to make sure everybodys talking to each other but im im just not getting that warm and fuzzy feeling here today after listening to all this that thats happening with you with yall. And i just want you to assure me that if that has not been the case up to this point that it will be the case in the future. Sir on the morning of 9 11 a network, a telephone line went into effect and its never been hung up since. And it includes, we call it the den and over 200 Mission Partner that is protect the American People. For this particular threat. But for the air threat. Its called the den. And it is exercised and it operates every single day. Twice a day just for the National Capitol region every one of our those 200 Mission Partners dealing with the penetration to the special flight the sfr. Twice a day and once a week we launch the coast guard helicopters to do it. Not only is it operated exercised, utilized every single day. Congressman, if i could, too, there is an effort under way by the white house, National Security council bringing all the federal departments together to look at these issues in particular technologies currently available, technologies that are being in development and locking at possible procedural changes as we encounter these kind of situations. Again, gentlemen, i want to thank you for the work you do and encourage you, please. This is extremely important and we really need you so thank you for being on top of your game. Thank the gentleman. Recognize the Ranking Member. Thank you very much. I want to thank all of you for being here but i have three issues to raise. Mr. Carter mentioned one of them. You know as i sit here, i cannot help but be concerned about the communication situation here. Mr. Salesses, when you said that you didnt even know that the ranking and the chairman and the Ranking Member of what . Four committees wanted you to be here the other day sir, i did not personally know. Theres something wrong with that picture. Theres something wrong with the picture. And let me tell you what i tell my staff. When something goes wrong and i find out about it, i wonder what i dont know about. And so you know, if you recall at the beginning to all of you, at the beginning of the hearing i said people talk about when rubber meet it is road and then we discover theres no road. So communication is basic stuff. And then i want to just, you know im and this is directly connected. You know one of the things we have noticed in a lot of committees, not just this committee but other committees is that folks seem to operate, want to operate in silos. Silos. And then, youre doing something over. Im doing something over here. Ive got my turf. You got your turf. And it works against effectiveness and efficiency. And i just want to make sure that you all assure us that you truly are working together. I just think i just think we this is such of such urgency. And my final point, i know you said that your staffs get together top level staff, i guess thats what you all were saying. You all need to get together and it should not be just to prepare, get your notes together for a hearing. I mean you all are i mean you you are there. You are you are paid to do a certain job. And this is out of all i mean this is this is with all the respect that i have for you. And it is tremendous respect. But when its not about your deputy or whatever. Its you all. We look to you all. You are the experts. You are the ones who give your blood, sweat and tears and you all are the Brilliant Minds that we rely on every day to keep us safe. And i think you all need to be meeting. I know somebody said that white house is trying to put something together where folks get together. That should come from you. Particularly after we have an incident like the one that happened here. And so, you know, im looking for it, im anxiously looking forward, mr. Chairman, to the closed session. I know you are going to talk about that in a minute so we can get some answers and if there are some things you could not answer i hope you took notes about what we need to discuss in closed session. Again, i want to thank you for being here today and, mr. Chairman, thank you. I thank you. This is a good productive hearing. We will go to a closed hearing at another date. We have two other subcommittee hearings. We got backed up with the Prime Minister. We appreciate your patience. You all have important jobs to do, as well. We will Work Together at another time. I do have a few more questions. The Tampa Bay Times published stories prior to this incident. The guy in the gyrocopter was live feeding a stream. They were watching it in new york called down to the capitol and had Staff Reporters and producers go down on the grass to watch it happen. Do you all not monitor social media . Is twitter like a new thing for you . I mean this stuff is out there. Try google alerts. Its there. If its not showing up on the radar, it was showing up on the medias radar and i dont understand why you arent able to pick up that sort of signal because if you say that theres never any exposure in advance, we got to become more technically savvy. If you can have somebody read a story online, get it to the appropriate person in new york, send a producer and watches it land and you all have billions of dollars, billions, and you dont see a dude in a gyrocopter flying over. We deal with this on the border every single day. If i get customs and Border Patrol up here they would tell you how theyre deteblgting these things. Theyve got special things i cant talk about right here. Ive been in them. I have seen them. Theyre very candid and open and theyre in the same department. Thats why we had Homeland Security after 9 11 we formed Homeland Security to communicate to coordinate and the only time you all seven can get together is when you get called to the oversight and government reform committee. Thats inexcusable. If the Major Networks can watch it live on television, i expect you to watch it on Live Television and do something about it. And i still have huge questions about what you would actually do. I want the men and women who are out there on the front line that had their hands on those triggers to know we got their back. We dont know if the person has mental capacity. Im going to assume they do. But you cannot come into the capitol region. You are not going to go on that lincoln memorial. You are not coming the white house. You are coming into the United States capitol unimpeded. Were going to take you down. Thats the prevailing attitude. We can get all these sob stories about how nice we want to be. But until we project force, until we let people know that if you come here youre going to go down, then well figure out your disposition. Then were sending all the wrong signals. Were sending all the wrong signals and so every time we have an incursion and not taken down fast and hard some other nutjob will get an idea and terrorists will get more ideas. Figure it out we pay you a lot of money. Billions of dollars and been a long time since 9 11. Figure it out. To the men and women doing this god bless them. I cannot thank them enough. They do amazing things. Two more questions and ill be done. I would like after this hearing to get your comments or your reaction, if youre allowed, on the charges that were brought about because of this. He was charged with a misdemeanor. This is a misdemeanor offense. The more stringent offense was his flying of a gyrocopter. But an incursion into the air space, weve got to look at that as a congress. Finally, ive got to ask you mr. Clancy, is a. T. Smith still on the secret Service Payroll . Yes, sir. He is a detailee. To another homeland department. Where does he work . What is his title . Sir, im not aware of his title but he works for the cvp. Your chief of staff . No, sir. He doesnt hold the title of chief of staff . Sir, i dont know what his it title is. Does he work in the secret Service Building . No, sir. Does he have a secret Service Vehicle . Not that im aware of. No, sir. Youll get back to me on that and confirm that . Yes, sir. Whose direction, whose decision yours or secretary johnson to detail smith rather than transfer him out of the agency . Sir, it was my decision. So why do you keep him in the secret service . You sent out a press release says hes accepted a position within the department of Homeland Security effective tuesday, february 10th, 2015. But he still works for the secret service. Sir, hes detailed to he is on our payroll, yes, sir. Why . Sir, i cant you told me, the Ranking Member, the world, you all sent out a press release saying he was being transferred but he still works for the secret service. Doesnt he . He still gets a secret service he gets a secret service paycheck paycheck. Yes, sir. How longs he detailed for . Sir, its it has not been defined, the time limit. Its been since february. Yes, sir. Ranking member . Chairman yield . Chairman yield . Mr. Clancy, just following up on that. So is he actually working i mean, i know he gets a secret service paycheck but is he actually working for the secret service in his detailed type of a position . No, sir. I have had no contact with mr. Smith. None . None, sir. And is there a we have details up here too, and so they have a limited time that they are with us. Can you tell us what the limitations are with wherever he is and can you get that information to us . Sir, ill have to get back to you on that. Yes, sir. Yield back. You have done mr. Clancy, a very good job of Building Confidence and trust is flushed down the toilet when i hear and read about these things. You said to us, me personally multiple times, the white house did, Homeland Security did secretary johnson did, mr. Mayorkis did that you were implementing fundamental changes. Yes, sir. This guy is still on the payroll. You sent out a press release touting he was going to another department and agency and does no work for secret service and yet hes on your paycheck. Dont ever come back here to congress and tell me that you have a financial problem when you have a. T. Smith on your payroll and you say you dont have enough money. You shouldnt have to pay for that out of your budget. He is a very, very senior person. You personally promised that he was being moved and transferred out of the department. And he hasnt. Im not buying this unlimited detail thing. This is just classic Homeland Security shuffling around and every one of your employees knows it. How do you think i know it . I dont go to work there. Your employees know it and you lose their trust and confidence that youre actually implementing the change that you say theyre going to. There was no consequence to all these things we have talked about. If he can keep his job have a great title, get the same paycheck, no, you know, get a detailee and waters calm down and sort things out. With that this committee stands adjourned. Mr. Chairman . Just one second. I just want to ask one more question. Because the things you said concern me. I mean, and i just want mr. Clancy to have an opportunity to respond to that if you want to. You may not want to. I mean when those are some strong accusations and im just wondering, do you have a resfons . I was looking for a fresh perspective in the Leadership Team and we thought this was one opportunity to do that. And im very pleased with the team that we have in place today. We have not gone back to those individuals who have taken these detailee positions. So i didnt have any other comment, sir. Is it unusual for you to detail people . I mean the secret service to detail people . No, sir. We have detailees certainly up here in congress. We are the beneficiary of detailees, as well. Thank you very much. Reclaiming my time. Ive got to tell you. You tried to tell the men and women of the secret service, you tried to tell congress, you tried to tell the world that you were making changes. And everybody can look this up. Its public knowledge. But he earns 183,000 that comes out of your budget that could have gone to somebody else, hire a new, fresh person, promote something within the agency whatever you might that then you come crawling back to congress saying i need more money i need more money. The four assistant directors that you also released transferred away are they also detailees or still on the secret Service Payroll . Sir there is one one is a detailee on our payroll yes, sir. Where is he detailed to . Sir, he is also with he is with i. C. E. Sir. What do they do at i. C. E. . I believe hes a training position. Will you provide to this committee by the weeks end the disposition of each of the people you supposedly were cleaning house making changes, touting that telling the committee that. Tell us exactly with each and every one of them where they are, how long the detail is how much they make all the relevant details that our staff asks for. Is that fair enough . Can you do that by the end of the week . Yes, mr. Chairman. Thank you. We now stand adjourned. L programs worked and which have not. Again, thats live on cspan2. The new congressional directedirect directoree is a handy guide. Bio and Contact Information twitter handles. Also, district maps, a foldout map of capitol hill and a look at congressional committees the president s cabinet federal agencies and state governors. Order your copy today. Its 13. 95 plus shipping and handling through the cspan online store at cspan. Org. Here are a few of the book festivals covering this spring on cspan2s book tv. The middle of may visit maryland for lye govern of the gaithersburg book coverage. As well as former Senior Adviser to president Obama David Axelrod and then close out may at book expo america, in new york city where the Publishing Industry showcases the upcoming books. First weekend in june, live for the Chicago Tribune printers row lit fest including our threehour live program with Lawrence Wright and your phone calls. Thats this spring on cspan2s book tv. Now a discussion on the challenges black men face in the u. S. Including the lack of employment and Educational Opportunities as well as Family Structure and poverty. This event hosted by the American Enterprise institute comes after violent protests in baltimore and the death of freddie gray. Good afternoon and welcome to the American Enterprise institute. My name is robert doar and i am here at aei and very happy to welcome you to our Panel Discussion improving opportunities for black men, the role of economics, culture and policy. The cultural matrix, understanding black youth. Doing the best i can. Fatherhood in the inner city. Helping black men thrive. My brothers keeper. These are the titles of the works of our very distinguished panel. Each of our guests today has produced important work about the very difficult issues facing black men in high poverty communities. To be sure, what were talking about today is not the condition or status of all black men. As professor patterson has shown the influence and contribution of africanamericans to American Life far exceeds what you might expect. We have the twice elected president of the United States to show the extent to which black men lead and succeed in our country. But as todays headlines make clear, there are very Serious Problems. Fatherlessness. Policing. Violence. Unemployment. Poor schools. All are two significant components of black life in america and theyre also too significant components of American Life in america. To discuss these issues issues by the way, which aei is committed to focusing on not just today but in the coming years, we have a great group of scholars and practitioners. First, we have professor orlando patterson. Professor patterson is professor of sociology at harvard university. He is the author of numerous academic papers and five major Academic Works. His most recent publication is cultural matrix, understanding black youth. Coedited with ethan foss, a great contribution. I recommend it highly. After professor patterson Katherine Edin is professor of sociology and Public Wealth at Johns Hopkins university. She is one of the leading Poverty Research earls working in welfare and lowwage work, family life and neighborhood contexts. Her most recent work is doing the best i can, fatherhood in the inner city. Another important contribution to literature. Robert cherry is the sterns professor of economics at Brooklyn College and the City University of new york graduate center. His recent publications include moving working families forward. He also recently authored a journal of family and Economic Issues paper titled labor Market Conditions and teen birthrates 2001 to 2009 and his article helping black men thrive apeerls in National Affairs. Another important work. And finally, michael d. Smith manages my brothers keeper president obamas initiative to address persistent opportunity gaps facing boys and young men of color. Michael, i have to say, my heart is with you as a former practitioner in social services, i have a special affinity for people in the game working to Bring Solutions and real outcomes for people struggling. No disparagement on the scholars but a special shoutout. I know its busy at the white house and nonor theed to have you. With that, ill turn it over to professor patterson to begin our discussion. Thank you. [ applause ] thank you very much for inl viting me to this important event. And i originally planned to do a powerpoint but only ten minutes i i think its best if i just spoke without it. I want to talk about what we have learned from this work which is just published. Cultural matrix, understanding black youth. Several years in the making and a collaborative study among scholars contributing as professor edin and let me see. And let me first say that culture occupies a very odd status, especially in the social sciences. Starting with you know, traditionally most people thought that culture was important, understanding the plight of the poor and as well as an understanding the trials and the advantages of the rich. But starting about the middle of the 60s, with the publication of the moynihan report as well as the publication of Academic Work culture of poverty, there is a sharp swing against using culture to explain anything. Complex reasons why. Moynihan has been made a bet noir of sociology. Very unfairly. And for complex reasons having to do with racial pride having to do with changes in intellectual fashion and so on. Im happy to say that thats beginning to change. Moynihans reputation has gone through revival. Partly because predictions turn out to be quite correct. But im not here to defend moynihan. I only want to talk about this issue. Of how culture matters. And begin by making one a couple points about culture. Theres no such thing as a culture of the poor or the culture of poverty. It bothers me that economists who have now especially behavioral economists are the subject and beyond rational choice approach beginning to develop what looks very much to me like a destiny of poverty. As they come to realize whats involved here. What we mean by culture then essentially shared knowledge about the world. And its not static. Its i want to leave one important point with you, its quite dynamic. Culture can change. One reason policy people hate to talk about culture they have the impression theres nothing you can do about it. Culture can change and we have dramatic examples of that in america. Not only the change in white attitudes with the civil rights movement, but even more recently, the incredible change in the culture towards gay people and gay marriage. Isnt that phenomenal . I mean, over a period of ten, 15 years, you have sea change. Culture can change. And we can change it. An another point i want to emphasize, sort of every page of the work we never talk about culture in isolation. Its their culture and this culture is kind of like a which guides you. I mean, its it always has to be seen in interaction with structural factors. Economic factors. Culture works in context. So the same cultural pattern may have one set of consequences in one context and another in another. So remember that. Culture never exists in isolation. Now, what do we learn about inner city youth and culture of the inner city . Again, i want to just hit on a few points which i wanted to go away with. We never, never talk, again, about inner city culture in the singular or even black youth culture. There are cultures. The inner citys remarkable. Heterogeneous. Socially and culturally. There are at least three major groups in the inner cities. There is it may come as a surprise to you a middle class that lives there. As much as over 65 of black americans from families with over 66,000 grow up in the inner cities. I mean, the inner cities has a middle Class Population. It has a very stable working Class Population about 50 , the bulk of the population. And, of course, it has a group which is about 20 which is a problematic group. The disconnect. We used to call them autoclass. The current team is the disconnected. Now i want to emphasize this. Okay . So when you think of the inner stiffs and including baltimore just remember the great majority percentage are among the most stable god fearing group. In fact, working class black americans go to church and more fundamentalists in their belief than any other group of americans. Theyre god fearing. They are the most law abiding group of people right there. So please. Just i mean disabuse yourself of the idea of the inner city and one group. In fact, this is the problem which Baltimore Police and the police in many other cities have. When they think of the inner city, they think of a single group. A single culture. When, in fact it is nothing of the sort. Most of the culture of the inner cities is very very stable. God fearing. So on. If anything very conservative in some respect. What you do have though is about 20 on average varies city to city, between about 13. 5 in boston to as much as 23 , 25 in detroit of the socalled disconnected. The street people. Or the street culture. And that is a culture of violence. That is a culture strong emphasis on hyper masculinity, ma sonlg nisic. And it is one which is a zone of instability. And creates real problems for people in the inner cities. Let me just adhere, since the emphasis is now on the brutality and the savagery of the police and rightly so, being an Occupying Force, we are likely to forget Something Else which the work also emphasizes. That black americans in the inner cities are really now caught between a rock and a hard place. Between the rock of Police Brutality and savagery, okay on the one hand, an Occupying Force proviling the entire black population in terms of the 20 who are the problem and on the other hand that 20 of really hard core if you like street culture types which thats been a problem. And it is a source of great violence. Youve heard of course that the rate of homicide has gone on dramatically. Since the mid 90s you know from the horrendous situation in the mid80s but im afraid its leveled off at a point that is still disastrous. That is to say, the homicide rate is still eight times the National Average and indeed since about 2003 among teenagers its been rising again. So we shouldnt forget that homicidal side of the problem. Blacks in the inner cities need the police. This is the dilemma they now face. The police Occupying Force and sort of sees all of them as problematic and brutalizing everyone but you know as cathy was saying to me recently, the worst thing to happen to black americans, other than having an Occupying Force of brutal savages, policing them is to have no police. And thats thats being caught between the rock and a hard place. Biggest problem facing black americans now. Now let me say that, continue that. The other cultures theyre sort of remarkable. Aspects of our american live. They have contributed to the dominant culture. Really. This by the way is not new. This is historic. In the 19th century the dominant Popular Culture is minstrel and it was black culture and in which the creators were mocked. But, in fact was a very you know was the basis of the most popular group. Black americans have been sort of contributing not only to the music, but theater fashion and so on and its come from the inner cities. Dont forget that. Inner city culture is one of the enormous creativity. One of the things we try to explain then is this pair dox that blacks find themselves in of being socially isolated in these segregated the community but, in fact, culturally very integrated in the broader culture because that powerful cultural influence comes precisely from the thought that there is a dialectic an interaction. Black americans have always been very, very much absorbed in the dominant culture and draws inspiration it even as it gives back to that culture. Jazz, blues what have you. And this continues to be the case. And these values are very reflect the mainstream in very important ways. In fact the, you know, the individualism. Taking responsibility for ones actions. One of the things which really annoys me is when one people talk about black americans not taking responsibility. That is a word read that chapter. Every survey we have done and we have gone through all the major surveys indicate that black americans almost to a fault take responsibility for their action and their plight. Theyre among the most biggest supporters of the military. In this country. And in fact they are essentially a group of people who are about as american as you can get in their attitudes. Okay. Now, what do we learn about the sort of culture and poverty in the inner cities . Weve learned that number one, segregation matters. Segregation matters. Its a long history of how america treated. In the civil rights movement, Martin Luther king and all the early civil rights leaders saw segregation as a problem. Mart Martin Luther kings was looking at the positive part of it. About the same time that there is this revolt against culture and making of moynihan theres also a reaction against the idea of segregation as problematic. Coming from in a sense the black leadership. And the same set of forces, in fact, as an explanation also come from rise of black pride. We dont have to sit next to a black kid and learn and so on. And you know the rhetoric. What it did as one of the most dr. Massey tried to point out is it took off the problem of segregation off the table. Of discussing whens problematic problematic. Let me tell you it is a problem because, i mean, you see to succeed in america you need not just book knowledge not just a knowledge of learning in school. But Cultural Capital and social capital which you dont get at school. Social capital is the interactions you make. The friends you make. Whom you know. Whom you know in is as important. You come to harvard not because harvard has a superior teaching faculty. I can assure you theres lots of other places to point out to you much cheaper, too, where you get a better education in terms of in terms of the content and relationship between professors and students. What you learn what you get at harvard is social capital. What you get at Harvard Business school you pay, again, you can read the case studies. You can acquire the knowledge. Is that very important social capital. Whom you know. But theres another kind of knowledge. Okay . Which is the Cultural Capital which is acquired which is the tacet knowledge of success in a society. That tacet knowledge, again, you do not lernl at school. You acquire passed down mainly through families, interactions and so on. Its very often knowledge thats embedded in interaction. Okay . We call it distributed knowledge. And thats what blocks are excluded from. In being segregated. We find yes, the ghetto, the cultures of the ghetto enhances provides protection. We show in one of our chapters that religion is still very important. That going to church up to the age of 14 matters even if you never go to church again. We go to Great Lengths to demonstrate that. But its also presents problems. I want to move quickly then to the amount of culture and policy because as to Say Something about it. So, we begin we pointing out that cultures not those of you in policy say oh culture, what can we do about that . Lets get to the hard stuff. Income and so forth. Theres no problem with having many cultures to deal with. One sociologist recently mistaken of cultures presents a problem. No, no no. We are good at switching. In fact, think of culture that the no macro terms of black culture, American Culture but microcultural terms. We all of us move through many different microcultures as we do in the ghetto. Now, what works . You know there are hundreds of programs theres a federal and local and state governments, have for black youth. We have done a thorough review of most of the best cases, and what we found is that many of them work and some even show a profit. Okay . End katds to prevent any despair here. The Nurse Family Partnership program is an excellent example of a program that works. The National Guard youth challenge, very good. Has been sort of the Rand Corporation did an excellent study of that. Certain charter schools. Success academies. The kip academies. Really work. You know theyre not works screaming. They randomly selected kids. Really do better in these programs. The youth opportunity programs turn out do work. There are several that work. But are not cost effective. The job corps. And some of them are overhyped. Harlem children zone im afraid. And turn around for children. Some arent clear failures. The Bush Administration held a Families Program and one of our authors andrew clark west is here. Did a wonderful study. There he is showing that doesnt work. Its important to know what works and what doesnt work and this book has gone through them. Okay. And the so i want to emphasize also that the culture of elites that just two more points. Just as important as the culture of black youth in understanding the problem. James rosenbaum, eminent sociologist at northwestern in a chapter of the work looks for example, what you call b. A. Blinders. Theres a thorough analysis of why it is we have such a high dropout rate in the Community Colleges and state colleges and he finds a good part of the problem, not a part of cognizant efficiencies but a bureaucratic demands, extra academic obstacles which are put in the way. And which he attributes to the culture of academic culture of elites. All right. Let me end by saying, however, that one of the biggest problems and its cultural is, of course this 72 problem as its come to be called. The fact that presently about 72 of black kids are being born let me not saying born. The issue is not being born out of wedlock. A greater percentage are born out of wedlock in sweden and out of bedrock. The bed rom thats needed of adult supervision of children. This is true whether youre living in primitive society or a most advanced society in the world. Children require adult supervision. You cannot have a system, a sustainable system, in which as a result of this problem of single parenting and its probably not so much single parent. Single mom with resources can do fine. But unresourced single parenting, thats a disaster. Thats a disaster. And the reasons for this are many. Partly social. Theyre partly cultural. But i want to say that, you know, it is obvious that the slugs to this problem which is a source, for example, of some of the violence you know one of the one of the main reasons kids are asked, youth why do you get a gun and go around shooting people . The answer in every study done is family. Family. Okay . Family. The gang becomes a substitute family in the absence of that. The problem is not just culture. It is social. Because a single mom having to work two jobs, you know, from 6 00 in the morning until 8 00 in the evening coming home, i mean, that means theres what i call the 3 00 to 8 00. Between 3 00 from school and 8 00 coming home dog tired, theres no parents and so they find another family. Thats the gang. Okay . These are some of the problems we face. And the solution is not just a matter of saying pull up your socks. This is cultural. Remember the point i made. Culture cannot be seen in isolationment its always got to be seen in interaction of social and economic factors. Okay . The problem we face then is how can we work out the best sort of arrangement which will enhance and motivate people to change. Thank you. Thank you very much. [ applause ] well, its thats an act to follow, for sure. So i just want to tell you a little bit about where im drawing my expertise along with tim nelson i spent eight years doing an enog if i, really, of 111 low income fathers in the philadelphia camden area in the early 2000s. Since then ive joined forces with mathematica and following a group of 90 men in 4 cities for 4 year that is are participating in our nations fatherhood programs and im also by coincidence ive been following a cohort of baltimore youth who are all born in and spent their early childhoods in baltimore Public Housing and an early article of that study appears in professor pattersons book. So, its a terrific volume. So im an enographer and well hear from an economist next and when i was asked to identify what i thought were the biggest problems. Everyone knows that it is jobs and education. So im not going to talk about those things now because theyre not important but because theyre things we know. What im going to focus on is something more subtle but maybe possibly equally profound. And i stumbled upon this insight. Some of you know bob and heidi in the room and around during these days i began my early in the early 1990s studying welfare and how single mothers made ends meet and along with interviewing hundreds of women i got a very strong sense of what welfare meant for people what afdc meant. And, of course, it was a source of separation, of sort of pushing people across the road, you know away from the citizenship side toward the disenfran khannizement side. Almost as if you had to exchange your citizen card and later when i moved to boston and was a colleague of orlandos, i spent some time looking at the facade of the old east boston welfare office, a gloomy building about 100 years old, caked in grime with a huge flag pole out front and over the door there are these block letters overseers of the Public Welfare. You know . And that building and i wish i would have, you know prepared a photo for you today, is says everything about what welfare did and what welfare meant to people. It was it was a stripping of citizenship. So i finished that book with laura lane making ends meet and went on to study the family and came back in 2007 once again to study the new welfare regime namely the eidc, the Largest Program we have in the country. And, of course, you get about the same from the efitc from the old welfare system on average but keep your wages and claim your efitc. You see the dlansing tax men out there. 70 of the eitc claimants get their taxes from h r block. But anyway what i learned by studying recipients of the new welfare regime, should we say, is that something radically different had occurred with regard to citizenship so lets just take the h r block, for example, seven blocks away from the overseers of Public Welfare in east boston. There youre greeted with a smile. There are signs that say money, money in minutes. A Popular Campaign slogan that h r block was using that year was repeated in interview after interview. Ive got people. What we saw is that people viewed the eitc as a radically incorporating experience, almost a brand of citizenship and laura, tak and i wrote a the New York Times oped about this two weeks ago today. So why was this form of social policy or social provision so radically different from what proceeded it . What we learned is that it was very important that it was tied to work. You got to work to get it. And, of course, this keys in and here im channelling David Elsworth work to American Values of independence and self sufficiency and the primacy of work. Second, it is part of a tax refund. Therefore, its prer sooefed adds earned. Third, you get it at h r block like every other american and almost is a brand of citizenship. And what we argue in our book, it is like im poor which actually came out two months ago, a little more recent than doing the best i can is that unlike its predecessors this form of social policy is actually knitting hardpressed citizens into society, into their nablds and their into their communities in a way that American Social policy has never done before and if you hear these interviews, people talk, you know, in such striking languaging about being real americans and how their children are real american kids. We know that the eitc has huge benefits for kids and if we believe joe sauce, these programs, these radically incorporating programs might have positive extri nalties yet to be measured to extend to voting and community participation. So all that to say and, you know, this is not a liberal idea. Not a conservative idea. I think its just main common sense. Im big on common sense. That i think what this research taught me is we need a new litmus test for social policy. When we think about a solution to the problem of any disenfranchised group ask does it incorporate or disincorporate . Does it build citizenship or does it deny it . And what im proposing today is that we apply this litmus test to social policy for men. Now, this can be sort of a subtle thing and its not as hard as it might seem. I was recently at an International Conference and in poverty, the director of the wisconsin Poverty Center had a fourpoint platform for how we were going to help men. I gave him a zero on the litmus test because all four ideas were disincorporating in my view but with small fixes we were able to get him to 100 . So let me just give you a couple of examples. Child support. Right now, in all but two states, we have what men call taxation without representation. If you are unmarried when you have a child, you have no automatic adjudication of parenting time when they establish a Child Support order. It is almost as if they are snatching the money out of the back pocket. Im in favor of Child Support so i want to emphasize that. Without giving you any offering any recognition you might have a role to play in that childs life. And those of us who are deep into the Child Support world, were really sickened by the circumstances surrounding the death of walter scott which of course implicates the Child Support system. Imagine instead of this taxation without representation system you had an opportunity at your childs birth to demonstrate your value as a parent. To voluntarily not only sign up for Child Support but to be assured that your parenting time would be adjudicated because you had a vital role to play. Now, there are many other examples of what we might do. Extending as written about could help celebrate the act of provision for those paying Child Support and a dozen more subtle ways like instilling the basic expectation in nurse home visitors and prenatal clinic that is a dad is going to participate. Now, i want to draw here because i was trying to think of how i was going to convince robert doar of this. For the basic principles drawn from developmental psychology. Im a sociologist. My knowledge of what im about to say is very thin and im a little bit hesitant to do this because were talking about adults here and these adults have equal status and equal honor and should be given equal honor to any of us in this room. But im going to borrow from the literature on parenting to display three different approaches toward social policy and to advocate strongly for one with this incorporating feature. We know from child psychology that permissive parenting is not good. Right . It doesnt benefit children. And it in some ways you could think of the prewelfare area with regard to Child Support in particular as permissive or maybe even as a form of not so benign neglect. Child Development Also teaches us that authoritative parenting is bad. Right . You know this is all high structure but no warmth. And i would argue that in the postprora period we have been engaging in a lot of authoritarian parenting. We have Child Support up. Thats good. The citizenship is stripping weve been doing it in ways that are stripping. What we also know is that the magic bullet is authoritative parenting where you have both high structure and high warmth. We have High Expectations for fathers to pay their Child Support. But we do so in a radical incorporating way. So weve got to maintain High Expectations. The eitc maintains High Expectations. But we need to do so in a radically incorporating way. Now, let me emphasize that ive become in favor of approaches that are really fully in line with American Values. We make this argument in its not like im poor and my forthcoming forthcoming book which will be out in september. So this is why im so intent on why im talking about High Expectations with regards to Child Support. Ultimately, the history of social policy in america suggests that this is the best way forward, not only for us but for everyone including the disease enfranchised. As ive spent much of my career documenting, the poor share many of the Cultural Values that we all do. Orlando has pointed that out beautifully. One core American Value that rings true over and over again, and we can see it in the polling data, is that americans along with valuing selfsufficiency desire and have a strong sense of community. Americans want to help the poor, they just dont want to help the poor through welfare. Finally, i do want to make one remark about baltimore. As a new daughter of baltimore the greatest city of america. If you dont know why im calling it that, you need to get up there. I think my conclusion from the last couple days of watching these events and coping with them with my neighbors is that what unites is is far more profound that what divides. I would encourage you to remember the oped i wrote a couple weeks ago, incorporate, dont separate the poor. For this audience, include men. Thank you. [ applause ] hi, well, i want to begin by talking about employment issues. The latest data indicates that only 70 of black men 525 to 34 only 70 at any point in time are working. If you take into account the prison population if you take into account that it could be some men one month different men another month probably close to onehalf of black men in that anyone group have substantial job idleness each year. So that its a serious problem this idleness. It goes beyond data may show 20 of whatever, this age group. In my recent work, what was passed out was a shorter version of the National Affairs piece. I link that to family. There are lots of reasons why there is unstable families within the black community and i think the source is jobs. Thats why its more serious than in the white community. You have the same problem in the white community, but because more white men of that age group are employed you dont have it as seriously. What is serious is that, sure a lack of money could lead to family instability, but i think the evidence shows that its much more the kind of anger and frustration that many black men bring into their relationships to lead to the dissolution of those relationships. Whatever the reason is you now have a situation in the black community where if you look at women who have more than one child, 70 of them have them with different men. So you have this Multi Partner per tilt. Why is that important . Because you now have much more a state of flux of black men in the lives of their children. Much is written about abandonment, absent fathers. And that certainly is a serious problem. Only about onehalf of black fathers see their noncustodial children for a meal once a month. But theres also the issue of child maltreatment. If you look at the rates of child maltreatment, theyre triple when a male partner is present than if a black single mother lives alone. So that you have very serious dynamics that go on in the family. Theres certainly issues of intimate violence. So i think that the lack of jobs has this dynamics. Its not cultural. You have it in white families as well but white men have much more significant numbers of jobs. And i think that this kind of problem for children ends up in the School System. You see behavioral problems very early. In preschool, its two and a half to three times the rate of black kids being suspended than white kids. You see it ultimately in the high schools where kids come into the high school particularly the boys, the black boys, come into the high schools with both educational and behavioral deficits. You have situations now in new york city, only 28 of black boys who enter the ninth grade graduate in four years. 24 in philadelphia. So you have these very Serious Problems. And theyre just events waiting to happen in the street. But what is going to be done about these problems . Yes, there are things that can be done in the School System. There certainly should be much more of a way of positively intervening in families where kids at an early age show serious behavioral problems. There should be more counselling, more phycologists involved in the School System to take a much more wholistic approach. And yes many families will say how dare you and this or that. But there probably are a lot many families a lot many mothers who would look positively if this can be done. I think the New York Times had a story about that. So theres certainly thinks that can be done in the schools. But i want to spend the rest of my time talking about what can be done to generate paths to direct employment. Orlando spoke a little bit about the elitism in the university system, which im part of and being an economist im probably even more elitist than most. Which is this vision of dont close the door to Fouryear College for all. So that almost every program even if it looks like its occupational oriented, like getting people into Community College occupational programs, always make sure the door is open for fouryear transfers. That means that the Academic Skills that are expected of the kids are much more demanding than if it was simply preparing them for direct employment. I think that for High School Kids there should be much more of an effort to get year round parttime employment. In the private sector. Thats where subsidies should go. Because where do as was mentioned, there are soft skills that kids need. Where do they get that . Theyre going to get it because of the segregated in housing and other things theyre much more likely to get it if theyre in an employed situation. Where do they get their spending money from . You know 16, 17yearolds, they see what the world has to offer. Where are they getting that money from . Where are the girls getting money from . You know, you look at in the black community the pregnancy rate of teen women one out of ten teen women are pregnant each year. Thats down from one of eight a few years ago. But its still serious. You look at rates of sexually transmitted diseases. You know there are Serious Problems and employment helps in these situations because it gets the spending money, but it also gets these soft skills. The second thing that i would mention is there are number of programs in the high schools to move people in a more vocational way. Bob lerman is here. There are apprenticeship programs that should be expanded. There are cte programs that get people into Community College occupational programs. Those are all fine and good. But if were talking about the people who arent at the most risk of not graduating high school, its really the direct employment. And secondly finding ways to link up, to have partnerships with Certificate Programs and very narrow occupational programs. And many of those programs are given by the four profits. Right . For many people the forprofits with the worst and theyre certainly examples of these forprofits being the worst. But there are, and you mentioned, james rosenbaum. He has positive views of what might be called the best practices for profits. They do much more counselling. Theyre much more hands on with the students. Theyre much more direct in getting them the training for direct employment. And i think it brings them out from the cold if theres partnerships. Because then you can monitor. You can pick out the best practices. You can pick out the best programs. You can give the counselling to the students to select whats best rather than this draconian attempt to penalize them out of existence. Thats where these kids are going to go. You know, whos going to itt . Whats going to devry . Even, you know, university of phoenix graduates more blacks than any other school in the industry. There are a whole bunch of these places. And i think for the most atrisk kids, they should be included. Yes, the Community Colleges have programs. But i think its about time to bring them in from out of the cold. I wouldnt say this, except im American Enterprise institute. At epi, id Say Something different. But anyway i think that we have to look much more closely at trying to find what goes on in these very chaotic and too often abusive families and thats figuring out how to get some counselling services to these families and just not use suspension or or something that leaves out whats going on in the family. I think we have to realize that its unfortunate but many of these black men bring their anger and frustrations into the family and things should be done about that. But most importantly, we have to figure out how to have more direct employment and pathways to direct employment while theyre teenagers so they dont end up as part of that 50 , 25 to 34yearolds who are out of work substantially during the year. Thank you. [ applause ] thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Robert thank you and the ai team for inviting me here today. And thank you for hosting this important conversation. Its also an honor to be on the panel with such distinguished colleagues. I feel bad that i dont have a book that ive authored, but maybe when i leave the white house. I thought id share a little bit about why my brothers keeper was created and talk about whats happened in the past year. So you heard today all of the statistics, boys and young men of color not just black boys. You look at latino boys. You look at certain Asian American populations. When you look at the boys, theyre more likely to be born into lowincome families, to live in concentrated poverty to live with one or no participate poor performing schools. When you look at whats happening in schools and courts, they are often times f