Transcripts For CSPAN3 Homeland Security Officials Testify On Federal Building Security 20221116

This is just over one hour and 15 minutes. [silence] good morning, welcome to the legault morning, everyone. Welcome to the subcommittee on oversight and management and accountability. I understand a Ranking Member is unable to be at this proceeding. He is on his way. I know there are a lot of contradicting messages this morning. You are supposed to be on the floor, both or neither. Subcommittee on oversight management of will now come to order. Without objection, declares all the rest to clear the subcommittee resurfaced at any point. Good morning. I want to thank everyone for being here today. For joining us to discuss this most important topic of Federal Building security. Protecting those facilities, employees, and visitors is a very important part of the department of homeland securitys day to day work. Its all of you know, tensions have risen recently in response to the raid on maralago. Passage of the historic inflation reduction act. We have all seen a rising threats directed towards federal employees and federal office buildings. Just last month, an armed man attempted to with violence gain entrance to an fbi office in cincinnati. Less wellknown, or the increasingly threatening language that has been directed at irs employees and those working two per serve government documents at the National Archives and records administration. Well not pickle, there was high security facilities, these are the government buildings. And the men and women who work there and visit them every day and now facing new Security Risks. With threats to federal facilities on the rise, we looked out the first front lines of defense. The department of homeland securitys federal protective service. Also known as fps. Fps ensures that more than 9500 9500 federally owned and operated buildings across the country are safe and secure. From Government Agency headquarters here in washington d. C. , to rural courthouse in field offices across the country across the 50 states. If you have ever visited a federally owned building, you have noticed thousands of fsb officers and contract guards providing onsite security. But fseps, i should say fpss roles extend beyond the guards posted at entrances and exits. Fps also helps Government Agencies prepare for and prevent any Security Risks that result from a training threat environment or aging structures. Left pete us performs security assessments from all Federal Buildings and leased buildings and makes recommendations for improvements to ensure that buildings meet required Security Standards. These Facility Assessments recommendations are very important to ensure that security protocols keep up with the types of threats we are seeing on a daytoday basis. Those are just recommendations can range from replacing security cameras and alarms to updating security guidances and policies. However, despite the good coordination between fps and other Government Agencies, all too often these recommendations go an implemented leaving huge gaps and our security systems. According to the Government Accountability officer, geo, some are even cities have described ofs Facility Security assessments comprehensive, timely, and useful. But they have rejected about 70 of fpss recommendations. So again good recommendations awesome. But 70 , not heeded too. The majority of a fierces recommendations, not being. Implemented including incomplete information and of course lack of proper funding we should do better and mitigating the risks to federal employees and citizens to visit those buildings. And today, we will have the opportunity to hear more about inter agency cooperation, that goes into developing filling Security Standards as well as the challenges meeting those standards. And with that i thank you again for joining us today. Our witness is another. Gas i will reserve time for Ranking Member, mr. Peep mayor from michigan for an Opening Statement when he gets here. Who and with that, numbers are reminded that the committee will operate according to the guidelines laid out by the chairman and Ranking Member and theyre february 3rd regarding window for seizures. And without objection, numbers not on the subcommittee shall be permitted to sit and question the witnesses. Mister mayor, call on you for an Opening Statement, sir. Thank you mister chairman role in this important hearing here on the security Federal Buildings across the country. I appreciate the subcommittee diving into this topic. And also am grateful for our witnesses who are here to shed light on this important issue. The Committee Held a hearing focused on the Productive Services committees roll and you know 2019. I think it is important we follow up on what was learned that today. Fps, as an agency, has evolved over time and has experience a transitions within the department of homeland security. Formally established by the General Services administration in 1921, fps is the primary federal Agency Responsible for the protection of all buildings, grounds, and property, owned, occupied, or secured by the federal government. This is obviously an enormous responsibility for an agency that often goes unnoticed and taken for granted. Fps employees several hundred staff. Apparently 944 alarm forces specialist, criminal vessel geisha ors were kenan handlers. All of whom trained at the federal Law Enforcement Training Center or flex e. In addition, a fierce heavily relies on more than 15,000 contract guard stuff called protective service officers, or p. S. Owes to conduct security screenings out Federal Buildings are also under. Because those are the backbone of the operation. Without the help with these countries guards, fps would not be able to carry out its mission. The protection of our Federal Buildings properties are of upmost significance. Unfortunately, violence against government and in turn, against federal government buildings, property, and personnel is not out of the norm and has become more prevalent in recent years. It is incredibly disheartening that we must worry about such things, but we must and therefore our conversation today takes on added importance of relations. With such an important real mission, we need to make sure that fdr says the tools authority to operate as efficiently and effectively as possible. Of, note fps is bet on geo, is Government Accountability office highrisk listens 2003. So nearly 20 years. G. A. O. Has found that fps is not acing was a federal facilities in a manner consistent standards such as the National Infrastructure protection plans, risk frameworks, as fps that originally planned. This is especially worrisome because of failure by a fierce could have catastrophic results. The focus of todays hearing is on the security assessment process, a fierce provide security assessments and recommendations every federal facility protects in accordance with the Interagency Security Committee standards. This east andover, which is house with and csis Infrastructure Security Division elaborately establishes polices and monitors compliance and enhanced Security Protection of federal facilities. As we hear from our Witnesses Today, a large majority of the recommendations that come out those assessments are not yet been implemented. Which begs the obvious question why not. As we, or are like to hear their perspective on the way this is on the following questions. Number one, it is a fierce positioned correctly within dhs to be the most effective . Number two, how does fps work with cisa and how collaborative is that relationship . Three, why do you such a large majority of a fiasco security assessment recommendations go and implemented . And in turn, is or better we can facilitate this process . For, does fps have the right structure with most of their workforce being contract support. And five, is the fees structure appropriate and effective for the role of fdrs today . Mr. , chairman im grateful we are holding this hearing and in the sometimes overlooked Agency Within dhs as they play never Important Role protecting our government. We have to take our oversight responsibility here seriously, and i look forward to hearing from our witnesses determine what actions we can take moving forward. Thank you, and i yield back. Thank you. Now i would like to welcome our panel of witnesses. First we have mr. Cline, the Principal Deputy director for the federal protective service. Mr. Cohen has worked with a fierce for 20 years where he coordinates federal state and local officials to ensure the protection of buildings, grounds, and property. They are owned, occupied, or secured by the federal government. Mr. Cline previously served 20 years of the u. S. Army, military police corps regiment. Our second witness, mr. Scott rower. Associate director for security programs for the Infrastructure Security Division at the cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency or cisa. He helps lead csis efforts to secure the nations critical infrastructure. In court a nation with government and private sectors. Mr. Brower is over 30 years of military and Senior Executive experience. In the u. S. Government. And our third witness, miss katrina latham. Overseen director of the fiscal Infrastructure Team at the Government Accountability officer g. A. O. She has worked for g. A. O. For nearly 20 years, where she oversees g. A. O. s work on federal Real Property management, including facilities, security, and personal. And without objection, the witnesses full statements will be inserted into the record. And i now ask each what that witness to summarize his or her seamen in five minutes. Beginning with Deputy Director klein. Welcome, sir. Good morning chairman korea, rookie member meyer, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. I am honored to be here today to represent the federal protective services. Or f bs. Intensifying by the central role we play and protecting federal boys of facilities. Thank you for the opportunity to raise awareness about the criticality of our organization. We employ nearly 1000 dedicated Law Enforcement officers who protect people property the federal government. Our Services Provide protection and deter threats for thousands of facilities across the United States. Owen protects millions of federal employees. Our has priorities as a few security of the morning 1. 4 million employees that work in federal facilities that we protect. We cannot achieve this mission without the dedication and focus of the men and women of the federal protection services. I firmly believe they are the most dedicated and professional employees in the federal government. It is an honor to represent him here today. Due to recent acts of aliens and Community Across the country, our nation remains an air threat environment. According to the latest images issued, National Terrorism advisers fulton, potential targets include government cities and personnel. There has been an increase in threats towards federal departs and agencies. Most notably the federal bureau of investigation, Internal Revenue service and, National Archives administration. Weve increased our protection efforts of those facilities occupied these agencies and remain prepared to protect, prevent and respond to a criminal activities. On a given day, at a single fps protected facility, dozens for security measures are in place. Working together to protect the integrity of buildings as arguments. We closely monitor for suspicious activity while operations ensure facilities are secure. Our Law Enforcement officers and protective Security Officers are highly trained prepare to deter attacks. As recently, demonstrated in chicago and fbi field offices. Those protected Security Offices deterred attacks those occasions when typically the first line of defense. We celebrated education and solid commitment as we recognize our efforts as weak as part of the National Security Office Appreciation work week. From the federal courthouse where highprofile trials take place, to Daycare Centers in federal facilities where we are protecting most innocent, fpss time and time again proven that we are a dynamic, dedicated Law Enforcement agency. Additionally, fbi directly protects 233 Congressional District officers that are located in 176 billion in the fbis protection portfolio. While we have responsibility for protection efforts at these facilities, we work closely and had strong relationships with the United States Capitol Police. Thousands on its are and our staff to ensure safety of all members. Establish over 50 years ago, fdrs is made remarkable progress as an organization. Its an integral part of the department of homeland securitys mission to safeguard the american people. Hourlong forsman officers have saved lives by administering lifesaving medical treatment, congress confiscated interest weapons, diligently conducting your long investigations, and even being injured in the line of duty impacting [interpreter]. Our officers who are among those who responded to audiences Law Enforcement collagen region 60,021 and helped secure the capital. Simply put, fps has been extremely successful in answering the call to defend and protect the variance that allow our government to function in our country to flourish. I sincerely appreciate the subcommittee holding this important hearing for inviting me to testify on fps is Important Role. I would be pleased to have any questions you may have. I think. You i recognize mr. Breyer to summarize his statement for five minutes. Welcome, sir. Thank you. Chairman korea, Ranking Member meyer, members of the subcommittee. As the associate director for security programs within Cybersecurity Infrastructure security agencies, Infrastructure Security Division, i appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the internet Agencies Committee role for all the protection of Federal Buildings in efforts to improve preparedness with coronation. In october 19, 1990 56 months after the Oklahoma City bombing at the alpha p. Morale Federal Building. President clinton issued executive order went to nine and seven. Creating the interagencys kim icc. To address quality and effectiveness of the security requirements of federal facilities. Membership of the icy and consists of Senior Executives from 66 federal departed agencies. This collective Security Matter allows the ioc to develop top tier resources coordinate resources to problems that of individual departments alone. The ceased clot to form the carries outwork with its members with a Governance Framework of subcommittees working groups. It is working groups which are provisional, or taxes bodies assange by sea will clear objectives and deliverables. In march 2003 in the role of church answered from the General Services administration to dhs. Dhs delegated these this responsibility to cisa in light of its role to protections are the nations critical infrastructure. The stewardship of the icy ensures that it supports, law and leverages state local territorial traveler stations as will house the private sector. All essential partners as we work to ensure the continue to protect and cities across the nation. Executive order one to 977 gave the icy three key responsibilities. These include established policies. Developing evaluate standards, a strategy to ensure compliance. To take actions to enhanced protection facilities. The ioc will responsible use or multiple unbuffered, including the Risk Management process. Its management process. Countermeasure crystallization for military federal facility. I see members created the process to provide common method for all federal facility stakeholders to guide with suspicion in the senate as winds help so well do owners are gonna fire levels protection needed to mitigate that risk. Further, the ioc validates member Risk Assessment tools and Training Programs of the standard. This helps builds organizational capability to implement i. S. Guidance and conducting these assessments. Fbi uses Risk Assessment tools that have been validated by the irs. Seem modify tool. Of p. S. Security Training Program at the Law Enforcement training. This program trains a fierce person on how to conduct Risk Assessment using their validated modified Infrastructure Survey tool. To the main drivers of threats to the federal facilities or target violence and terrorism. Has noted the most recent dhs National Terrorism advisory system bulletin, these threats are becoming more complex. They are top priority. Dhs will use every resource available to prevent, detect and mitigate threats of violence directed at federal facilities. Thank you for the opportunity. And for your continued support. I look forward to continue to work closely with the another member of congress. Think of your testimony. And i recognize miss leigh come to summarize your statements in five minutes or less. Welcome. Thank you. Good morning. Chairman korea, and Ranking Member meyer, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the federal protect Services Security Risk Assessments. As you mentioned, we have doesnt gated federal Real Property management as a high risk area since 2003. In part, because of these physical security challenges at federal facilities. My Statement Today will focus on our prayer and ongoing work on fps. First i will cover the stakeholders views on fps city assessments and the implementation status of fpl security and recommendations. Next ill discuss the preliminary observations of fps Law Enforcement deployments. First reported in june the stakeholders were satisfied with the process. However many were concerned about cost estimates. They lacked Important Information they can help agencies make decisions. State colors reported concerns. We discourage them from implementing security measures. And that report, we recommended that the director ensure that assessment documents both the assumption and sources used to develop the cost of estimates for each recommended measure. As of august, fps had taken steps to address our recommendations in part by updating. The manual. We are now the process of analyzing if a fierce actions are fully responsive. Next, fps data indicates that security recommendations are generally not implemented us the chairman mentioned. Our Analysis Shows that between 2017 and 2021, fps made more than 25,000 security recommendations at nearly 5000 federal facilities. These recommendations ranged from addressing physical vulnerabilities to ensuring policy or guidance documents or current. Furthermore, fps data shows it did not receive a decision as to whether agencies were approved or rejected more than half of the 25,000 security recommendations. This data also shows that agencies approval of recommendation does not necessarily mean it will be implemented. Of about the 6800 of the above recommendations, only about 22 have been implemented as of september 22. Fierce officials also noted that some recommendations stay open for years, as it can take time to secure the funding and implement some of the more costly recommended security measures. In our ongoing work, we will explore and identify factors that influence agencies decisions to improve or reject security recommendations. We will also look at why fps is not receiving information on those decisions. We expect a report on this work in early 2023. In addition to conducting Facility Security assessments, a fierce provides Law Enforcement support of other federal agencies. Preliminary observations from our ongoing work shows that the number of days fps has to play Law Enforcement officers has increased since fiscal year. 2020. These officers are deployed to augment security at a fierce production facilities. Deployments have helped secure facilities during protests and Housing Units for migrants in the southwest border units. As a final point, staffing is an important consideration is a fierce continues to have shortages. In june 2010, one fps was in the cybersecurity and infrastructure, Security Agency. We reported that fps had difficulty obtaining needed staff. Fe has had not fields 21 of its authorize physicians, including about 200 Law Enforcement positions. Were currently conducting work on these changes since fps moved to the management director how their collective berating to justify have Staffing Shortages. We expect to release an issue on this by the end of 2022. Chairman korea, Ranking Member meyer, and members of the subcommittee, this concludes my statement. Im happy to answer your questions. Thank you. Thank you for testimony. Oh my the subcommittee that each of us as five minutes to question a panel. All recognize myself for five minutes. You testimony, very important. 70 of espys, of pieces recommendations are not implemented. The sleeve them, you cited a number of factors. Budgets. He cited the challenges in the southern border. Is a 70 non implementation something new or has this been something that has been going on for a number of years . Thank you for the question. The work that we are doing now, we will look further indepth into how long its been an issue. Some of the reasons, as you mention and weve heard and our prior work were due to not having costas mince. The agencies know that they needed hes got some hints to further understand the scale of what is needed to address some. They also said that they needed the information, for example, if they were in a building that was older and. Let me interrupt. You only have a couple of minutes to ask these questions. Again, is this something new, has this been going on for three. Four. Five. Years a decade. At another time period but it is. Mr. Cline, could you help me out here . Absolutely. Chairman area, it has been going on for a good while. And i asked this because, first of all let me say thank you for the good work you do. Keeping us safe. Our buildings, citizens, federal employees. Your job is finding a needle in the haystack. Yet failures unacceptable. Oklahoma city, 911. When your failures they are big. It is not, you its not. Us and what im trying to do is figure out a roadmap here to help you do your job better. 70 . Let me out here. Cameo will bit of a roadmap. A vote of confidence, tell me they prioritize some of the things that you need to do because 70 of your recommendations not going implemented is not something im comfortable listening to you today. Mr. Cline, please. Thank, you sir. And ask the representative from jail mentioned, weve cracked the cost estimates for the so that is an approach regression. Its difficult to get these kind of measures implemented. Like we mentioned, its typically a lapse of resources from agency to be able to implement those kind of measures. Its a multi tent facility, than all the agencies in the facility number one have to agree to that kind of measure recommendation, and number two, they have to fund their share of the cost for that. My counterpart at ioc, they established a program to observe the compliance by agency of the measure regular mendacious. I think it might be worthwhile to have mr. Greer talked about that and how are doing it. Mr. Greer, in the few moments i have please. Yes sir. So under the Risk Management process which came out in 2013, one of the key aspects of that issue we have a standard compliance to that standard. So we are working with our inter agency partners. Im here to represent the collective of all 66 departments that make up the icy. At the end about tail, it is not specific Department Agency in that facility that owns the risk. What we ruled on 2019, a compliance is some. We are now receiving reports from agencies with respect to their compliance. Im happy to say that this year, going with best practices, we finished a pilot of a verification program. We can its one thing to collect, another to verify. So going for we will be able to verify what departs an agency submitted to the compliances. We had further questions but im out of time for like to recognize the gentleman from michigan, mr. Mayor for his side questions. Thank you, mister chairman. Obviously it is a difficult position fighters in because youre making recommendations. Asked jr noted, youre trying to get those recommendations. When making those recommendations, trying to prevent and do so in a way that is going to be most conducive to them ultimately being adopted while on the same time having a fierce personal standing in that breach in the interim. I think that that was driven home by the death of pierre so patrick underworld on may 29th 2020. During the george floyd protest. And accelerationist group took advantage of that chaos and get and sudden killeds pr so underwood and what it is. Partners i dont necessarily want to dwell on that one tragic incident but how does fps balance the desire to have those recommendations being implemented with the fact that it is a fierce personnel who are protecting, especially the p. S. , aside projecting a potentially made vulnerable if those recommendations are not ultimately implemented by the facility . Mr. Cline, . And you. It puts us in a difficult situation when the measures are not implemented. We balance our staffing requirements. We work with our local and city county state federal partners to maintain awareness of threats to facilities. We balance our efforts to the base of what we hear. Im with your own path under words. We went to his Memorial Service in oakland. By that situation we had 17 officers of that Federal Building at the time. Total chaos. Very violent demonstration was occurring at the time. Like he said, that actress took advantage of that situation. So it is a balance on how we deploy ourselves. We know that facility where the highest risks are. Where we need to put people. So for instance, the fbi facilities around the country field offices, resident agencys are sucker. If serve that in cincinnati. Theres no way anyone was gonna get inside. Our protective Security Officer sounded the alarm on the fbi agents inside responded and the individual flood. Working to get the other agencies to reach that level of awareness and preparedness is our issue. When it was mentioned before, it primarily comes down to the funding. This is a multitangent agency in iowa. They will work with our departments and agencies here in washington d. C. I could be 20,000. Getting that funding to ames iowa its the difficult situation that we find ourselves in. And one awful about one thing you said, but i dont you dont answer. Mislead, from mr. Cline mentioned the fbi as a tenant organization. That is both aware of the fact that they face in the Critical Role in very well equipped to understand and to balance that versus about for the countermeasures. Are there any, agencies that are particularly well inclined to adopt countermeasures on the opposite end of the spectrum if mpi is maybe the better practices who are the worst. I would say in terms of your question, not officially letterman climbed at the agencies where we did our view that we noticed had more recommendations that were not addressed we are smaller agencies. That may be understandable. Due to some of their challenges to dress them. I would say smaller agencies had more unjust recommendations. Mr. Cline, to get back to quickly. Broader question. Fps has been transferred. Do you think right now the management director will be a permanent home for a fierce or is it another home within dhs potentially more appropriate . Thank you Ranking Member meyer. Our transition to management has been wonderful. We are taking advantage of the expertise of the lines of business. Cfo, are, so in a minute. We need to mature our business programs within fps. The management is obviously that. Ultimately the decision on the placement of fps i think as we go ensure we would be ready to prepare ourselves to become a complaint within be adjusts. Standalone component, but right now relented with management, specifically under the leadership and guidance acting under secretary ellis has been a good place for us right now. Thank you, mr. Cline. And with that, my time is expired. I yield. Back thank, you sir. The chair will now recognize other members of the committee for questions. In accordance with the guidelines laid out by the chairman of the Ranking Member, i will recognize members in order of seniority. Alternating between majority minority members. Theyre also reminded to unmute themselves when recognized for questions. Mr. Pain for five minutes of questions. Welcome. Thank you, mister chairman. I think for the timely hearing. Mr. Harm. According to the Government Accountability office, the federal protective services is facing a Staffing Shortage with approximately 21 of its positions unfilled including about 200 long porsche positions. How are you ensuring that a fiesta still able to respond to threats to the federal property security assessments and execute its own other formations while working with a reduced number of Law Enforcement personnel . Thank you very question. Youre correct. We are experiencing about a 21 shortfall in a respect thing needs. Like most other businesses we are dealing with labor market challenges. We are also competing for the same people. We are all over the same person. We continue to work with dhs. The chief human caught capital officer, a recruiting team will be at a military base tomorrow continue our recruiting efforts. We just started a class at the federal Law Enforcement Training Center last monday. 24 new students. We have other classes scheduled for this year. So it is a continued challenge for us but our goal in fy 23 is to fill all over vacancies including our Law Enforcement and support position vacancies. Given what we have seen in the aftermath of januarys the general six investigations that uncovered both military and Law Enforcement personnel being involved in the insurrection, what is a fierce doing do weed out the potential nature of this ideological folks amongst your ranks . Thank you for your question. When we recruit and hire new officers, they go through a security clearance profit to the dhs office of the chief Security Officer. Its a very rigorous process, very detailed and thorough analysis of their background in suitability. Once they come on board, the office of the chief Security Officer dhss also stood up a program. I dont know the exact name of it but is basically a Continuous Monitoring program. So that individual, lets take me for exit for instance. If tonight i was arrested for some reason, that Continuous Monitoring program would, the office of the chief Security Officer would know about that moral. And then he would take action on it based on whatever that circumstance of the arrest was. So it is our goal to make sure that the people we are not involved in any d b e excavating. We hire large mat of veterans. 80 of our Law Enforcement officers are veterans. Im a veteran like they are. But the process of the office of the two security of schools to do that, that back on investigation on the perspective employee and their unions monitoring of the employees activity is really helping us to make sure that we weed out bad actors. Okay i think that was a focus on new hires. What about officers that are already in the organization . That is the process that the chief security of the use of on their Continuous Monitoring program. Also with our relationships with the city county state and federal Law Enforcement,. As you are aware long forsman agencies actively monitor differently media looking for individuals that may be associated with domestic violent extremism. And if we receive notification are aware of a dhs or an officer, theyll be turned over to our office of internal affairs to estate. Mister chairman we have to say vigilant in this area because as we know, we have done an incredible job startling the foreign fighter. That is the internal issues that we have a domestic terrorism the place our nation today. With that, i yield back. Thank you mister pain. I recognized the gentleman from north carolina, mr. Bishop, for five minutes. Welcome, sir. Thank you mister chairman. Mr. Vine, i want to focus on something that has almost slipped from National Consciousness but it struck me as something very strange. In Portland Oregon, over i think gina july 2020 there were 52 consecutive nights in which antifa anarchists and other radicals carried out violence. A lot of it focused on the federal courthouse in portland. One thing just if my memory about that. I know that there were some reports of the time the federal officers were blinded or injured by lasers. How widespread with that and have those officers recovered fully or have a permanent injuries . Thank you congressman bishop. Portland was a very chaotic, unprecedented event. We hadnt seen before. A number of officers, with enough bs 363 operator injured. I think roughly a total of 800 injuries to not only fps officers but also the cbp and i. C. E. Officers that provided us with assistance, primarily the green lasers, ultra caught tails ball bearing shot with slingshots. Commercial grade pyrotechnics were thrown at them. The fps and dhs officers that support of that event are in my eyes heroes. They the level of restraint. Their goal was to ensure that the court has the federal facilities in portland are protected. And they achieve that goal. The seat inside that courthouse until someone that it was intended to cause damage like setting the building on fire before the would come out to take action. And when they did come out, they were hit the barrage of violence. So all of those officers have recovered from those injuries. We have one officer who did drive a heart attack. Not during the events but, as he was going to work. Unfortunately, another officer within dhs did commit suicide. But we dont know if it was related to his activities in portland but he had certain portland. What an excellent summary of that, mr. Cohen. And you started with the term unprecedented. And that was how it struck i think many americans. We never seen anything like this in the terms of the continued activity over a long period of time. One thing that was remarkable is the Portland City Council voted, as i understand, it to prevent police from cooperating with federal Law Enforcement. Mayor out there ted wheeler said at one point, the presence of dhs officers its quote, actually leading to more violence and more vandalism, close quote. He had mayors from a number of cities right the attorney general and acting dhs secretary saying that the deployment of officer protect the facilities was a piece of power. I know that if i understand g. A. O. s report on dhss strategy in portland. Had said that there was a support from local Law Enforcement. That wasnt the case. So. To implement a strategy to counter. That hard to believe that im reading words like that in a congressional hearing and certainly that they would be true. What can you offer us about that issue. How do you intend to respond to the fact that mayors have supported that kind of lawlessness and resettled. T to thank you, congressman bishop. Their history, relied on city, stay, lock freshman to assist us in the protection of our facilities. Typically in a mark city, there are some types of violence or criminal act and in Federal Building, local enforcement may be the first to respond. The majority of federal meaning that the local Law Enforcement states had the ability to respond as well. Within portland, the fact that the Portland Police bureau, who we are very tight with, we work well it, the fact that the permitted from the system, is the exact reason we had to inform our officers out there to protect facilities. Typically, day today, the provide our systems, but theyre usually restricted, and were unable to support. It seems to some of us that this kind of attack that can spring up in the a lot of places in the u. S. , is that that need to be looked into congress, the ability to bring this kind of attack against a federal facility anytime that you . Congressman bishop, i think between the summer of 2020, not just fps, but a lot of Law Enforcement officers and agencies were dealing with largescale demonstrations and in some cases some violence. You all experienced that on january six. We experienced it out in portland so i think we have done well with our Partner Agencies and fellow government and city council the state to share information. We all learned lessons that we need to work Better Together to share information, make sure were aware of any incidents that could pop up, and that has increased over the last year. Thanks for Outstanding Service and testimony. Mister chairman, i am done. Thank you very much. Now i call on the lady from the via, miss typist, for questions, welcome. Thank you very much, mister chairman. The previous member of this committee was talking about, portland being an unprecedented event, lets talk about another unprecedented event and that was the storming of the capital of january six. Nobody could have anticipated it would have been as terrible as it was but there are certainly warning signs including the radical commentary on the internet for several days leading up to the events that they were they did stormed the capitol and tried to overturn our legal elections. It was hyperpartisan, neofascist, pro violent and it was racist. It should have given us some hint, because this is festering online for several days. Were not seeing that kind of incendiary language to that extent right now but i think there are some lessons we can learn about how to spot potential events like this, so i would ask mr. Cline, how is your Agency Working with others to keep track of misinformation online instate aware of critical threats to federal witness that might come as a result of that or in conjunction with that . In the agency Security Committee factor into when you conduct Risk Assessments of Federal Buildings . If you dont, why not . Thank you congresswoman titus. As we mentioned before, we have dramatically increased our communication with our city county state and federal Law Enforcement partners. We maintain regular and active communications with our Law Enforcement partners, agents the federal executive boards, which on the 28th, federal executive board throughout the country have a level of oversight of operation. We continue to maintain awareness of threats. As you mentioned, sharing of information is critical to make sure that we are all prepared to respond and react to a situation that may come out. You mentioned january six. On that day, our job with the protective services to make sure the Federal Buildings in the area of the ellipse and in the march that took place in the capital, that is what we are focused on. We did, the u. S. Capitol police requested support, and we did provide support to the capital, as soon as that call went out. Definitely, maam, the sharing of information, preparation for things like this should have occurred has dramatically increase in general six. I think its in a good place now. Well, we appreciate your help on that day in trying to keep the bill the member staff, press everybody safe so thank you for that. Could you talk specifically about protected investigation programs and how your members work their, train their, cooperate within . Absolutely, maam. So far, this year, weve opened up 201 predicted to our investigations and made 19 arrest at this point. We anticipate more arrest as those of estimations continue. Most of these their investigations are informed from an agency, of an employee who received a turning complication, whether an email, phone call, text message, whatever it may be. The information is provided to us, and our special agents and criminal investigators will conduct the investigation, we are quite a city council partners, booty background on the bad actor making the threat. We will make a determination coordinating with the assistant u. S. Attorney, her office and in the area that there is coming from to make a determined on the arrest. That is typically how the process works, maam. Thank you so much, this Committee Really appreciates the job that you did and understand how it might be hard to get people to work to recruit and also to maintain that force, so be sure that you let us know what resources you need if we need to provide additional funding or assistance and anyway so that you can do it up. Thank you, mister chairman, i yield back. Thank you, miss titus. I recognize the gentlelady from tennessee, miss for five minutes of questions. Thank you, mister chairman and Ranking Member. Thank you to the Witnesses Today. Honestly, i want to think a lot enforcement for the job they did, you dont get enough thankyous these days. First question is for mr. Beyond our, we heard about the process for assisting Facility Security. The federal facilities not under the fps purview, and my question is what is icy doing to ensure that all these agents that the protests assistant process complies with i. C. E. Sc standards . Thank you for the question. This is back to 2019, where we released a compliances thumb so the 66 departments that make up the Security Committee, part of their compliance reporting and everything that was friend around compliance was created by them through our compliance committee. They are part of the process. Now they must report what they are doing about the organizational level, headquarters, and at the facility level with respect to meeting standards of the general six Security Committee. Im happy to say that at least at this year, we have been able to run through a pilot. Going forward, we will be able to work with departments and agencies to actually verify what they are smitten into compliance system so that we can better monitor and track submissions. Its all about tracking and measuring those outcomes. I have a question for miss layton. Facility security has been on g. A. O. At risk since 2003. Who are the issues that are keeping these facility securities on that list . What are key actions that fps can take to address these concerns . Thank you for your question. Yes, they have been on i harvests listens 2003 and there are two remaining items that need to be addressed. Fps currently has two systems in place that they are working on having developed overtime and the systems first focus on what theyre learning activities are four officers, as out as what extent officers have completed training and time and attendance. Were looking for fps to, one, fully implement both systems and, in addition, make sure the systems are operable and coordinating together so they can know who meets the requirements and more importantly, who should stand post and ready. Absolutely, fps is a fee for service organization. Do you believe that is the best way for them to operate, maam . Sorry, the first part of your question, do you mind repeating . Fps is a fee for service organization, and with the, do you believe that is the best way for them . To operate . Thank you. We have certainly look for components of the Fee Structure for fps to see if there are any advantages or disadvantages to structure. We have not done a whole review. We certainly have made positive comments regarding the. Okay, does your my questions, mister chairman, and with that, i yield back. Thank you miss harshbarger. I recognize the gentleman from new york, mr. Thank, you mister chair. They assess the Security Standards, the federal protective Service Makes a cutie assessments in recommendations based on the standards, and the Federal Building Security Committee must decide whether to comply with those recommendations, is that the process works . Thats correct, mister congressman. If i scored a 30 on an exam, i would receive a f, a failing great. Am i right to see the a compliance rate of 30 is a failure . Mr. Cline . Sir, the 30 is typically a failure. There are a variety of factors involved in making those decisions. So, if it is a failure rather than tinker at the margins, shouldnt we fundamentally rethink the model of voluntary compliance . Should security assessments be binded . Sir, the new compliance implementation that generates the Security Committee is doing, i dont call a stick, but thats making the agencies that oversee and office [laughs] its making the agencies more aware of what those countermeasure recommendations are and making them comply with an executive order, an executive order that came out in 1995, requiring the to get the facility theres no obligation to implement them. Its ultimately a model of ontarian plants, and my question to, is there any circumstance under which security assessments should be binding . What about Federal Buildings . Where Security Risk is highest, should be binding under the circumstance . I think it definitely needs to have more influence, that influence, binding, effect. If we do the same thing over and over again, and expect a different result, thats the definition of insanity, as upper on sunset. You said earlier, if i understood correctly, in order for countermeasures to be implemented, we need all the test to agree. Its not enough to have a majority, you need unity. There could be scores of threats in the building. That struck me as a process that breeds inertia and failure. How can we possibly defend that . That is the Facility Security committee that we talked about earlier agreeing. Because theyll have to find their portion of that countermeasure. As i said, as it is a but one can imagine on which the majority of the committee agree and then everyone is required to pay their fair share. That is a more rational system than expecting unanimity in every case. Thats unrealistic. The weight of the vote on that committee is based on Square Footage of the tenant. So theres a way to weight those that have more of a presence. They have a stronger vote. Would you be in favor of such a shooting Majority Parliament for unanimity requirement . That is something we look at. Okay. It just seems to me that that would facilitate compliance. What about, you have 1000 Law Enforcement Security Officers who are responsible for a portfolio of 9500 buildings. It would seem to me that the scale of your responsibilities are just proportionate to the scarcity of your resources. Do you have the staff you need to sufficiently secure 9500 buildings . Its 1000 enough . Our current goal is to fill our current vacancies. Get those down. And as we have, if the threat environment continues to escalate authored house, and we will soon theres no escalation. With the senior fellow youre building your vacancies. Based on number facilities, publishing the federal employees. There the highest risk facilities would have more people. We have more officers here in d. C. Than we have in iowa, primarily because they are needed here. But like the Capitol Police says thousands of officers for one complex. You have 1000 officers for 9500 buildings. There seems to be a disconnect there. My time as can expired. Thank you mr. Torres. Im sure we want to go through a second round of questions, only to follow up on mr. Tauruses concept. You have tenants. They are supposed to pay you a fair share. Mislead them, you said one of the big issues this money. To implement. And like nestor says, 30 compliance, 70 none. Do we have to mandate that other federal agencies pay their fair share of what you recommend, what you prioritize aisles needs to be done to secure these buildings . Thank you, mister chairman. There is no mandate, no law theyre acquires. Or do we need . One if the fbi, if other Government Agencies have eczema of dollars and you have just said you need to invest the following to protect the building personnel in citizens to actually compass your buildings, this has been going on for a number of years noncompliance. This is unacceptable. What do we need to do to mandate that the financing be there, be reallocated so to speak to make sure that at least the set of priorities, to secure this building is actually addressed . It is a critical issue for us. With my counterpart from the ioc being here, and working directly with those departments and agencies. Mr. Breyer . We are seeing monitoring combined since 2018. We are seeing and prevented share. But a couple of issues that do arise, and what we are working on now is the internal guidance within department and agencies on how to implement the highest east standards within the organization. And then to follow and that, guidance and policies from the headquarters. When you hear your words but i am still concerned. You havent alleviated my concerns because, you know, all of you are out there doing a good job protecting us citizens. But yet, now essentially the threats are turning on you, on us. And i am trying to assaults in my mind factually here from your statements whether you are prepared to play defense. I am not getting a good vibe out of your statements today. Thoughts . I think where we are with respect to federal Security Committees is that, the multi china facilities, we have ruled a training. Were world ruling out workshops, we now have regional advisers across the United States that are helping others seize. So i think diversity is that have tenants, i think there is work that needs to be done so that they better understand. I am hearing your words. I would like to get more of an assurance that we are going to move to better compliance. Oh my will hurt in these buildings to make sure they are not vulnerable to the simplest attacks. None of us here condone attacks on our federal officers and personnel and u. S. Citizens. But let me shift real quick, mr. Cline. Mr. Bishop talked about oregon. He talked about coordination. That was an ugly situation. Unprecedented, your words. Something that none of us condone, i dont like seeing, i disagree. I do everything i can to stop or federal officers were being attacked. You talk about coordination. You extended over to cbp and ice to help in that situation. And yet the local portland Law Enforcement officials didnt want to see that happen because of the controversy, the local elements there but essentially. My words, maybe inflamed the situation. How can we move forward and make sure that there is better coordination here . You are at the feds, they are at the local. You have to figure out this situation. A situation before gets out of control, mr. Klein lessons. Learned thank you, chairman. We learned a number of lessons out of portland. We rely heavily on city county state Law Enforcement to support our mission. As mr. Torres mentioned, we are a didnt see. For us to, we dont want to create a federal police force across the nation. We rely heavily on our contracted protected Security Officers protected facilities. Right now, theres about 6200 p. S. Outposts that are soft this minute. Extreme sheen, monitoring cameras, security, that we rely heavily on. We made a lot of changes after portland. If we signed a new directive and how we approach public order. Or use of force policy interactive isnt with the director percentage right now. That was coordinated with civil rights and Civil Liberties the office of privacy policy. And we have managed to change the process on how we approach civil disorder. As far as utilizing cbc and ice, that was necessary because the local on horsemen, the Police Bureau that we were cannon and what daytoday, during that instance they were prohibited from assisting us. The no county sheriffs office, in Portland Oregon state police, macon came in a times to assist but the locals were prohibited. And we dont see that anywhere else and we think it is done in portland and we know how the situation. Thank you very much. Right now time so im going to have mr. Mayor go with the questions. Thank you, mister chair. I want to follow up on what mr. Torres was asking about just clarify the fms scenes. Obviously any assessment of responsibility for the security upgrades or countermeasure eliminations or shared on the prorandom bases within the tenants. But for the embassy, and it does have to be unanimous support of all members of that to adopt your recommendation. Is that correct . The efficacy, the ten members are given away with respect to their vote based on the Square Footage. So if you had a facility with three members, and one of those members Square Footage was 66 , then their vote would be the driving force. The other two members, at which a majority could not go against the decision to move forward. So the building is not a questioning, as a majority of the fsb . Based on square. Footage okay, thank you, because i think there have been some misunderstanding but unanimity versus majority opinion. Im getting back to the reasons why they are not implemented in the g. E. O. Report theres some explicit couple reasons. An agency is planning to move and so if youre only gonna be inability and the leases running out in two years, it doesnt make sense maybe to make division upgrades. I think the other one was obviously the implementation cost is youre gonna have a range. Are there, but i guess can building the progression into most adjurations of maybe a facility that is a smaller facility and an individual families facility. I think in our tight mind we have a concept of the main acevedo building when you may have a social Security Agency are both unjust renting a few square feet and one facility. So we are talking about a blunt. I guess my question is, to what extent, an area has this is more of a gsa question, but to what extent are the recommendations to keep a Smaller Agency a smaller footprint so, these are not affordable or costeffective upgrades for us given our logistical circumstances, either with where. But they chose that location more secured facility was releasing numbers mr. Cline, i think you understand where were getting at here. Fps is more of an advisory war when offering these mister mens, costbenefit analysis of each recommendation, is gonna be dependent on the agency but theyre also making costbenefit analysis in a separate tranche under individual wheezing signed. Lets fps off a recommendations prior to gsa approving or suggesting a Lease Location for an agency . Thank, you reckon member, yes, absolutely. Lets say an agency decides they want to move to a new location in dallas. Gsa will make contact with us, with gsa and the agency, will all the previous assessments. This is the go out and see some offerings from some leases in the city. You got these many people, this much more footage, you need this kind of space, and that will go out and look at it. Well now that down to the top three, and then gsa will work to establish the lead, and i will work with the agency to establish the necessary level of production at the facility. We want to get in their first before they move in. Lets get this established not before people are here. Lets get the projects in place. In other instances, if the agency says i cant afford to do 20 cameras around the home, then if you can do that, can we do cameras at every entrance . We can see whos coming in the building, record nefarious activity that goes on there. Lets come up with something. We cant afford to do anything, lets try to do something that makes sense that up to secure the facility. To be clear, prior to that lease being signed, you understand, okay, maybe this facility that is in compliance already with what fps might recommend, thats 30 a square foot, this facility that is 25 footage square foot, if theyre going on a cost basis, i dont want the agency to take the lower cost one that may have to add another 10 per square foot and security events. Youre doing that prior to the leases being filed . Yes, sir. When the production in the first floor of the building, the number of facilities that are offering to be leased to the government have that already. If that has that there, thats one less countermeasure with implement because its already in place. Thank you, i yield back, mister chairman. Thank you very much, any other members wish to ask questions of our witnesses . Say no further questions, i want to thank our Witnesses Today for your testimony, and members further questions. Members of the committee. We ask that you respond to those were in questions expeditiously. The chair reminds members that the committee record will remain open for ten days and without objection, this committee stands adjourned, thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] on this day, a hearing with the national surity threats to the u. S. Oman security secretary Alejandro Mayorkas is joined by fbi director Christopher Wray and National Counter terrorism director, Christin Abizaid in giving testimony to the Government Affairs committee. Live coverage starts at 10 15 am eastern on cspan 3. You can also watch on our do mobile video app, cspan now and or online at cspan. Org. Preorder your copy update congressional directory for the 118 congress. Its your access to the federal government with bio and Contact Information for every house and senate member. 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