Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hearing On Water Infrastructure Environmental Justice 20221114

The committee on Homeland Security will be in order. Without objective, the chair has authorized to declare the committee in resource at any point. Good morning. I would like to begin by saying that my thoughts are with those living in alaska, puerto rico california and oregon who are experiencing disasters. Over the weekend, alaskans felt the impact of a typhoon. Puerto rico was hit with Hurricane Fiona. Nearly five years to the date since Hurricane Maria. Meanwhile, americans in the west are dealing with wildfires and record breaking temperatures. As the nation continues to cope with simultaneous disasters, as we recognize National Preparedness month todays hearing on preparedness under the limbs is the preparedness and resilience of Critical Infrastructure and particularly Water Infrastructure hits close to home. My community of jackson mississippi suffered serious flooding last month, leveller of a water pumping station eyelash more than 100,000 of my constituents without clean water or appropriately managed wastewater. Residents could not use the water coming out of their faucets to brush their teeth, bathe, or wash the dishes. The lack of water lead to school and business closure. Tens of millions of gallons of untreated raced water flowed into jackson area waterways. The state has recently lifted the boil water advisory. Sporadic boil water notices continue in the city. This crisis is not over and will not be over until we fix the underlying problems that caused it, starting with a lack of investment Critical Infrastructure such as a Water Systems. Jackson is not alone. Many areas around the country have suffered from this investment and struggled with aging infrastructure. Particularly in communities of color and low income areas. In fact, the Water Systems consistently violate federal Drinking Water standards, 40 of them served communities of color. That is not a coincidence. Studies show that black and brown communities are more likely to bear the brunt of natural disasters. To make matters worse, Infrastructure Investment and disaster systems are often directed to areas that already have more resources rather than those that desperately need it. Ive seen this time and time again as the dollars are steered away when communities like those i represent. Clearly, fema and its partners must do a better job of ensuring that states provide federal funding to those communities most in need. For years, i have been a champion of equity. This congress i was proud to see my legislation, the fema equity act passed the house as part of the National Defense authorization act. I intend for this legislation to be part of a concerted effort to address the lack of equity in Infrastructure Investment, Disaster Assistance funding and other federal programs. I applaud the Biden Administrations commitment to that work. I will do everything in my power to ensure that we make Real Progress for jackson and communities like mine across the united states. To that end, i am looking forward to having a fruitful discussion today about how we can invest in infrastructure, improved preparedness and boast are resilience to all communities and so all communities have the tools they need to weather the storms we face. With that, i look forward to the discussion today. I thank the witnesses for their participation. The chair recognizes the Ranking Member of the community, the gentleman from new york, mr. Katko for an opening statement. Thank you very much, mister chairman. I echo your sentiments. I hear those in a moment. Before i began, id like to say that im encouraged to hear mr. Chairman at the Water Services have been restored in jackson, mississippi. I realize theres more work to be done. It is my sincere hope that the situation continues to move in the right direction. Its my understanding that fema, and the Environmental Protection agency are currently working with the management agency. They identified longer term jacksons emblematic of our communities nationwide. Flint michigan, for example, many others. I am heartened by the fact that we have a massive infrastructure bill that we passed. Hopefully, it will provide more dollars to these jurisdictions. For the life of, may i do not understand how not everyone supported the infrastructure bill. Its times like this, you realize how important it is, i hope that the process for jackson moves quickly. Access to clean water is critical to the Overall Health and Economic Security of a community. Id also like to express my concern for the ongoing situation of puerto rico. Hurricane fiona has caused catastrophic flood an island wide blackouts. The most recent hurricane is recovering from hurricanes irma and maria. It devastated the island five years ago. I lived in puerto rico as a prosecutor in the mid 90s. I was struck by how dilapidated the infrastructure was then. Emergency, it has gotten nothing but worse. We have to help them as well. With this in, mind i want to thank the chairman for holding the hearing. Facing the Critical Infrastructure. A particular focus on Water Infrastructure. As we have seen in recent years, americas aging Infrastructure Systems are increasingly susceptible to cyberattacks. The Water Systems are no exception. In february of 2020, one a hacker remotely altered the chemicals in a Water Treatment system in florida. The operator hadnt noticed the attack, its estimated that a city of about 15,000 people would have been exposed to highly poisonous levels of chemicals in their water. This incident demonstrated firsthand the real world devastating consequences in our systems. Unfortunately, the attack in florida was not an anomaly. For this reason, i introduce the department of Homeland Security Industrial Control System and had some an act of 2021. Legislation which is cosponsor by chairman, security agencies or the lead role in protecting our nations Critical Infrastructure. Particularly Industrial Control Systems from Cyber Threats. The committees a cyber subcommittee also just held a hearing on Industrial Control Systems cybersecurity. It further exemplifies how congress is taking this issue very seriously. In addition to being susceptible to cyberattacks, aging Water Infrastructure, also it poses a growing threat to economic growth, public health, and our environment. And central new york, note stranger to the challenges caused by Water Infrastructure. In the finger lakes region, harmful algae blooms prevents Severe Health risks to human and life. Sustained high water levels continue to threaten homes and businesses and communities along lake ontario. That is why during my time in congress ive wanted to modernize the Water Systems. Ive worked hard to provide safe, clean and reliable Drinking Water to all of my constituents. Most recently, i was proud to introduce the Water Infrastructure modernization act of 2021. My legislation would expand on local efforts to develop and deploy Smart Water Technology in central new york. By making this technology more widespread, we will be taking meaningful steps to improve Water Quality and bolster the reliability and sustainability of our Water Systems. Im in addition to introducing the legislation, ive also worked with colleagues from both sides of the aisle to ensure robust funding for the primary federal programs that assist state and local governments with Water Infrastructure needs. Drinking water and clean water funds. Since their creation, these programs have provided billions of interest free loans and grants to state local governments with instruction needs. For this reason, i was promised as i mentioned to bolster these crucial funding streams and to maintain the advocacy through the congressional appropriations process. As demands for these programs continues to grow, it is critical that we keep an eye towards federal support for the security of our Water Infrastructure assets. In conclusion, the water crisis in jackson comes at a time when our country is having a serious conversation about the future of our nations Critical Infrastructure systems. The members of this community represent a wide range of districts, rural, urban, large, small, we have all been impacted in some way by the issue of aging infrastructure. Given this fact, i look forward to hearing from all of you today about how to increase infrastructure resiliency across the country. Chairman, i thank you very much for your indulgence and i apologize for being late. That is what happens when you have a new knee, physical therapy, i apologize. I thank you very. Much i yield back the balance of my time. The gentleman yields back. Other members of the committee are reminded that under the committee rules, Opening Statements may be submitted for the record. Members also are reminded that the committee will operate according to the bye guidelines letup by the chairman and Ranking Member in our february 3rd 2021 regarding remote procedures. I welcome our panel of witnesses. Our first witness, mr. Craig v8 was administrator of the federal Emergency Management agency, commonly referred to as fema from 2009 until 2017. He led the agencys response to multiple recordbreaking storms and over 500 president ial the cleric major disasters and emergencies. Prior to his service at fema, he served as director of the Florida Division of Emergency Management. Our second witness, mr. David guest, the manager of the seawater. One of the nations largest Water Utilities. He oversees one billion dollar annual budget and leads approximately 1200 employees. Mr. Gadis served as member of the president s National Infrastructure advisory committee. Our third witness, miss is the environmental and Climate Justice director for the naacp. And that capacity, she oversees strategy and collaboration across the association tos mount environmental racism. Our final redness, mr. John oconnell, Senior Vice President of the National Rural Water Association. At and our w a, he helps lead the organization to train, support and promote the water and wastewater professionals serving small communities of the country. Especially ones that i live in. Im glad to have you. Without objection, the witnesses full statements will be included in the record. The chair asked the witnesses to summarize their statement for five minutes. Beginning with mr. Few gate. Good morning, mister chairman, other members of the committee. It is an honor to be here. What happened in jackson, mississippi, i think a lot of people dismissed it. Well, thats jackson. Thats their, it wont happen other places. In my history responding to disasters, ive seen systems come so close that much larger systems almost fail. Example, 2010, record setting floods in nashville, they impacted both of the Water Treatment plants. One was flooded and shut down resulting in 50 capacity for the nashville region losing potted water. The other facility came within one foot of failure, only by heroic sandbagging efforts could they say that. It took 30 days to repair the first facility before they could get full water back up to nashville. As the Ranking Member pointed out, this was not only Public Safety in Drinking Water. It was economic. It slowed down the recovery. They couldnt even bring back their venues until they got that plant back online. That is not the only story. Columbia, south carolina. 2014. Record setting floods blew out the intake canal to the Water Treatment plant for the city of Columbia South carolina. This is when haley was governor. The National Guard literally was taking helicopters flying 3000 pound sandbags trying to rebuild and fortify that intake so they would lose the water system. We know about flint, michigan. Once again, fema was asked to come in on emergency basis. When the system failed, because of the extremely i lead levels. In that response, fema is engaged in emergency actions including helping distribute water filters and other support for over eight months. Those are just tips of the iceberg. The thing i want to focus on is the record setting flooding. If you look at most Water Systems, those that depend upon surface water where built based upon the hundred year flood zone. It is a misnomer. There is no such thing as 100 year flood zone. It comes from the National Flood Insurance Rate Maps of the special risk area. This terminology that we have used is really confusing when we say, were looking at 100 year floods, 1 risk. It was based upon historical averages looking back 100 years. As the Washington Post published a couple weeks ago, we had five 1000year events in five weeks. So, not only do we have aging infrastructure, which epa estimates about 750 billion dollars worth of repairs need to be made, many of our Water Treatment plants across the nation are at increasing risks in these extreme rainfall flooding events. They were built for the last hundred years. This comes from the general county Office Recommendations at the request of the senate committee. Making recommendations on how we Start Building Climate Resilience into our Critical Infrastructure. Whats happening in puerto rico reinforces that. Merely Building Back what was their only to be destroyed once again is not a good investment of my tax dollars, sir. As a federal taxpayer, i would be willing to pay a little bit more on the front end so were not coming back time and time again with these types of failures. So, it is a combination of problems that is both asean infrastructure in, many cases smaller communities of color, lack of resources to maintain those systems. Increase risk of natural hazard, mainly flooding. Drought is also driving a lot of these impacts. A tendency to want to get back in quickly, make repairs, move on. Without understanding that building for Climate Resilience means you have got to build for the future, not for the past. With that, i will stand by for questions, mister chairman. Thank you for your testimony, mr. Fugate. The chair recognizes mr. Gadis to summarize his statement for five minutes. Thank you very much. Chairman thompson, Ranking Member katko and distinguished members of the committee. I am david gadis, ceo and general manager of d. C. Water. A member of the President Biden National Infrastructure advisory panel. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the resiliency of the nations critical Water Infrastructure and the importance of making Environmental Justice and water equity part of that conversation. As ceo of the seawater, i oversee one billion dollar annual budget, a workforce of approximately 1200 employees, the distribution of Drinking Water in the nations capital. The largest advanced waste Water Treatment plant in the world. Providing services to nearly 700,000 residents in washington, d. C. , and another 1. 6 million residents neighboring in the counties a maryland and virginia. Since taking leadership in 2018, a goal of mine has been to lead transformation initiatives related to Environmental Justice and water equity, including our first in Class Customer systems programs and lead free dc initiatives. It will eliminate all lead Service Lines within the district by 2030. As the recent water crisis in jackson mississippis highlighted, federal policy to secure the resilience of the nations critical Water Infrastructure must include consideration of Environmental Justice and water equity. As the funds for water investments are distributed from the Infrastructure Investment and jobs act, we must be sure these resources are distributed on an equitable basis to all communities. In my role serving communities in d. C. Who have often been overlooked for these investments in the past, i have a unique advantage point on these issues. I know that todays under investment in tomorrow is tomorrows crisis. Our primary mission in the sea water, deliver clean, safe, reliable Drinking Water to our residents. This includes protecting water and wasteWater Infrastructure from potential threats, including physical, cyber attacks. As part of the resiliency effort, the sea water is a member of the National Sector of the National Cyber Security Task force. We are also partnering with the Environmental Protection agency, cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency as well and water sector coordinating council. Also known as wscc. To improve cybersecurity for our sector. Our cybersecurity model is based on the and i asked ts cybersecurity framework. We limit access to physical data systems. We have Continuous Monitoring and analysis of our systems for potential threats and are able to block attacks and maintain systems. Maintaining a strong Cyber Defense is just as much a part of our infrastructure as maintaining our pipes and filtration systems. Robust planning for cybersecurity is no longer optional in the water sector. It is a key part of what we do every day. With the federal government is a key partner. Im pleased last month fema announced a 20 Million Dollar grant for construction of flood wall around blue planes waste Water Treatment plant here in d. C. This grants will help support resilience against Sea Level Rise providing protection for a plant that serves 2 Million People in the district. Also in maryland and virginia. Also, my newly appointed will as the Water Utility expert on the president s National Infrastructure advisory council, im looking forward to working with the white house on how to improve local and federal partnerships and improve security and resilience of the nations critical water sector. Further, the Infrastructure Investments and jobs act gives us an important initial investment in starting the process to restore the aging Water Infrastructure and also wasteWater Infrastructure. We look to building a long term resilience into Critical Infrastructure, i would ask that Congress Continues its equipment to grow the Water Infrastructure funding as there is still much work to be done. For example, not all the infrastructure programs that are created in two days bills are actually funded. I asked that congress fully funds all the Water Infrastructure programs that were authorized in the fy 23 appropriations legislation, including two programs that would directly support the physical and the cyber resiliency within the water sector. In my role with the seawater i know there are many challenges ahead. I know the challenges can be met. The issues facing they are complex. Again, i thank you for inviting me to testify. I look forward to working with you to tackle these policy issues head on. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. The chair now recognizes miss connor to summarize her statement for five minutes. Good morning, chairman thompson. Ranking member katko and members of the committee on Homeland Security. Thank you. My name is connor. Im the director for Climate Justice at the naacp. A member of the faculty of the environmental policy and policy as you see davis. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. The history of this investment is evident in black communities to creating a lasting legacy. Indeed, without immediate action black humidities will continue to live a legacy deferred. Over the last several years, we have seen that failing Water Systems, and efficient infrastructure create crisis within community function. In cities like jackson, mississippi, but michigan, baltimore, maryland, alone there are likely hundreds of thousands of black people who have had brown water or toxins like e. Coli flowing through their faucets. Additionally, this investments still intentional when there is a pattern of scarce resources in black cities. For example, since 1996, mississippi has received federal funding for drinking Water Systems. However, jackson has received allocations for federal funding in just two of those last 25 years. The situation in jackson is just one example of how majority black cities and towns across the country have been treated in our nations history, continuing to the present day. Michael written testimony provides examples of patterns of this investment in communities from nearly a century ago, like allens worth, rosewood. The legacy that black people have hoped for and the constant similarities to deprive them of resources in places like jackson today. We continue to see this disinvestment. Often, state agencies and state legislators control what funding reaches black communities. History is indeed repeating itself. For, weeks i spent time meeting with jackson residents who state they had been using bottled water for decades because it has been normalized a simply what people do. Although jackson is shared with the governors detailed plans that outlined the urgency issue for years, the governor rarely if ever responds. We now have new federal investments. The state being the first recipient creates barriers for jackson. Mississippi received 75 million under the bipartisan infrastructure law. During the jackson water crisis, mississippi submitted a funding structure that would cap loan forgiveness at 500, 000, knowing it would take billions to fix jacksons water system. Moreover, to receive American Rescue plan funding, the state passed a law that requires only jackson to receive a second set of approval through the department of finance and administration. Adding time to fix urgent issues and yet again cementing another legacy deferred. Unfortunately, the situation in jackson is not the first time that we have seen black cities struggle due to the lack of support. In flint, michigan, the naacp filed suit because of the gross negligence of officials that failed to detect a water problem. Then when the water crisis was known to harm black people, the public was told to continue Drinking Water despite understanding that it was contaminated. In baltimore, another predominantly black city, e. Coli was found in the water as recently as a few weeks ago. Because these issues are systemic, there is a long history of incrementally poor decisions that leave black cities debilitated. Congress has the ability to actualize the legacy vaccinees of hope for. My full recommendations are in my written testimony. First, i encourage congress to pass the Environmental Justice for all act. For this committee to assess the effectiveness of state oversight and historically disadvantaged communities for disaster preparedness. There needs to be more granular and desegregated data for accountability as well as diversification for funding streams that are not loans. The lack of the private right of action under title six and meaningful Technical Assistance also are main concerns. Additionally, better coordination in collaboration are needed at a federal level. We will continue to highlight the egregious conditions of jacksons water system and how the actions of state actors have caused disturbing tory impacts. Action from this congress and the entire federal government is needed to ensure that there arent similar crisis in other communities. We have made strides in the environmental and Climate Justice space. However, history will continue to repeat itself if we do not learn from the past. We need urgent action to ensure that this congress is remembered as a body that helped break the cycle. Thank you very much, the chair recognizes the Ranking Member for the introduction of the next witness. Thank you, chairman thompson. Im proud to introduce John Oconnell the third. Senior Vice President of the National Rural Water Association. Soon fills the role of president on september 20 some of the 2022. Its a daunting task for sure. Mr. Oconnell is a new york state certified Water Systems operations specialist. He began his career in 1988 with the village of weeds port, a small town. He has served as the superintendent, a chief operator for the village of weeds port, the city of cortland, the town of through sent that down. In his career, mr. Oconnell has seen improvement projects above water and wasteWater Systems. Instrumental on ensuring the john also joined the board of directors at the new York Rural Water Association in july of 1997. He has served as secretary treasurer Vice President and president of that association. This is just a brief summary of mr. Connollys many accomplishments. Based on his vast experience, his insights will be valuable today when we talk about these issues. I think mr. Mcconnell for his continued service to our communities. Im very pleased to be able to have him testify today. Thank, you mister chairman. The gentleman is recognized to summarize his statement for five minutes. Thank you, good morning, chairman thompson, Ranking Member katko, and members of the committee. As mr. Katko said, im John Oconnell, Vice President of the National Rural Water Association. The largest public water and sanitation Utility Organization representing more than 31,000 water and wasteWater Utilities nationwide. I am also an active farmer. Upstate new york. I continue to serve as a certified water and wastewater system operator for small and Rural Communities at a parttime basis. Its an honor to appear before you today to discuss critical Water Infrastructure and preparedness and resilience. Before i proceed, i would like to give credit to a few of our associations on an issue that chairman thompson is currently addressing. The association has been on the ground working to restore critical water and wastewater with services in jackson, mississippi. Volunteers from state associations include georgia, florida, alabama, south carolina, ohio, in maryland. They all came to assist in the efforts and provide direct assistance to restore operations, locate service, lines and stall new taps necessary to disinfect the system. The services were provided at no cost to the city. National Rural Water Association and its 50 state rural are governed by 350 volunteer directors selected from these very Water Systems associating the nation. We have more than 750 professional workers in the field. We have boots on the ground working 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Reaching across the nation with all 50 states including tribes and u. S. Territories. As we all know, Water Utility prep are according to the u. S. Environmental protection safe Drinking Water information system, they are currently 50,000 community Water Systems in the country, 91 of them which serve population of less than 10,000. 60 of them serve a population of 500 if you are. The Current Public Health crisis in jackson, mississippi, the covid19 pandemic, the historic Drought Conditions plaguing the western states as we speak all highlight the essential fact. Safe Drinking Water service and wasteWater Treatment is essential to modern life in the economy. This fact occurs and small, rural, tribal disadvantaged communities across the country. We have heard. We i mentioned at the top of the remarks that im a part time for the simple fact that many rural and simply cannot afford certified operators. I have been in the wastewater and water industry serving small communities for 34 years. Its imperative to understand that small communities only operate to serve the Public Interest and are eager to take action to protect the water supplies. I want the committee to know that when small towns like mine need the help them in operating Water Utilities, clean water acts and safe Drinking Water act requirements receiving the required and learning about the latest resilience practices we call our state Rural Water Association and Technical Assistance. These professionals traveled directly to our town and focus on specific water issues for over 40 years. They have been essential on almost every Small Community and Rural Community in new york and across the country. However, the reality of many small and rural water and wasteWater Systems is in limitations exist with impact the preparedness and resilience. The smaller economics of scale combined with lower income residents providing safe and affordable Sustainable Service can become challenging. Just enough on that. Right now, nationwide, we are facing a mass reduction in utility directors. I believe its 50 nationwide. People are going to retire in the next 3 to 4 years. 75 in new york state. Many of these rely on user rates paid by the customers to entire operations including debt service loans, paying staff, equipment, disaffection products, energy costs, in addition to inflation, small, rural utilities are not immune to the distance to preserve public health. The increase in cost and chemicals alone are 300 . Forcing some utilities to pass the cost to the lower Income Customers that are struggling financially. As the Committee Considers options to address the Critical Infrastructure and water sector association, established competitive Grant Programs with dhs to include activities to assist small and Rural Communities with preparation resilience and assistance. Respond to the Rural Water Association to natural disasters extreme weather incidents are increasing. We just heard today. As for now, these efforts are limited in recovering and restoration activities. Assistance should be expanded to include preparedness and resilience, potentially including the loss of services. Priority could be targeted to communities that are that could include but not limited to conducting assessments of Critical Infrastructure, it suggests a modification to harboring utilities, performing resilience, mitigation planning, to include direct application assistance to access availability stave federal funding. s Disaster Recovery planning, Disaster Recovery planning conclude, training Emergency Response plans, communication protocols, has a recognition, enhancing staff evaluations skills. Find direct assistance to restore Services Including pumps, motors, evaluation repair water disinfection, flattishing, link detection, line repair, water vane, wild locations. Emergency power generators, i passed pumping, Water Treatment, maintenance safety. Measuring during difficult working conditions. Application assistance should also provide to assist state and federal funding including fema and insurance recovery plans. Will the gentlemen wrap up his statement please . I will. Let me switch my page. [laughter] we are eager to partner with dhs, assessing the needs a very small Water Utilities together. We provide the expertise to ensure all necessary protective actions are conduct in a timely manner, results is more resilience, prepared and water sectors. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. We will make sure that your entire statement is included in the record. I think the witnesses for their testimony. The chair reminds each member that he or she will have five minutes to question the witnesses. I now recognize myself for questions. Its imperative in this country that the federal state and local governments to pursue and implement policies that strengthen the resilience of our nations infrastructure and lower our collective vulnerability to climate impacts. Each one of you have talked about that in your presentation. This acknowledgment should be regardless of race, ethnicity, economic status, urban or rural. So far, the witnesses, given that this is National Preparedness month, what are some areas that fema and the broader government can do to ensure that we implement policies that ensure that all communities have the resources they need to strengthen their preparedness and resiliency . We will start with you, mr. Fugate. Thank you mister chairman. Minister has already begun to implement many policies that are being directed by the white house to address equity. Probably one, mister chairman even hearing this, before we talk about things like mitigation, we always focus on the cost and benefit analysis. For every dollar we invest we save future losses from anywhere from 49. That sounds like a good answer. It was easy to communicate to the committee when you make a disinvestment. This is going to say the task is. Money but it had a dark side. That was, if you take it out where instead of every dollar im investing, where do i get my greatest costbenefit analysis . It tended to drive the investments in the more affluent communities. Houses were more valuable, the infrastructure was greater. We saw more Economic Activities there. And because we had focused so much on the benefit expressed in dollars, the bias was always going to direct it away from the greatest need. I think administrator griswold were looking at, how do we back away from looking at the transactional description of deciding where to make investments . And start looking at functional impacts of these investments on people, aging infrastructure, and communities at greater risk. That generally have the least resources to recover from disaster. These are important first steps. But i think we have to understand, how we got here. What we can do differently. And then, really embrace this idea that what we invest in has to be for future risk, not what weve always dealt with in the past. Thank you. Thank you very much. Your question is a fantastic question, and how i am going to answer it is to lift the burden off of local utilities that serve them. The federal government must invest more in our nations infrastructure. Critically, the federal government also must place more emphasis on the funding provided by throughout the country. Congress and the Biden Administration have made great forces with the passing of recent legislation in the jobs act. That will provide the epa with 55 million over five years to improve the nations Water Infrastructure. These actions are imperative to the country, to fight for clean water access for all. But unfortunately, it doesnt go far enough. And i think it involves while these funding programs help shift efforts in a positive direction, they do not provide nearly enough to solve the growing issue that we have in front of us today. According to American Society of Civil Engineers of united states, we face Water Infrastructure funding gap of one trillion dollars. One trillion dollars is what the estimated gap is today. Much of this investment is needed to be met with individual customers, and increase the federal investment. A number of the utilities ive got two more people. Thank you. One of the things that would help and what i heard directly from communities that have been historically disadvantaged is that Technical Assistance needs to be meaningful for what they are facing, and reflect their needs at that moment. The Technical Assistance often that is given to them is not what they actually need then. So really thinking about what Technical Assistance needs to look like in these communities. Next, there needs to be more aggregated data. I think that all the federal agencies play a major role in ensuring that it is aggravated so communities know what is actually happening. Next, i believe that collaboration, even though fema needs to be collaborating and coordinating with other agencies. Oftentimes, they are communities that are and they are trying to figure out which agency they need to turn to in order to receive help. So the more that fema and other federal agencies are working together, the easier it is for those communities to get the assistance they need. And next, while it is important for all communities to be a part of this conversation, there doesnt need to be a prioritization of historically disadvantaged communities. Because we know that there has been centuries of discs investment in those communities, as well. Great points. As i said, the national Water Association is one of the few Nonprofit Organizations that does offer assistance to each community. We have boots on the ground. We dont need you to come to us, we come to you. The complexity of fema applications and everything are where the problem is. A lot of the help that is desired, where the utilities have really especially in rural areas, that can get through the paperwork part of it. We are trying to improve that, we need more funding, more people on the ground to go into these disaster zones. To help them go through the process of expiateing the problems and answer quickly and get these progresses in line. Obviously, i think thats the biggest thing we need. Communication, help with Rural Communities and to demonstrate how they get through the process. That will help with people on the ground. Thank you very much, chair. Well pass it to the Ranking Member for questions. Thank you for your testimony. Something that has been very frustrating to me for many, many years. Ive got to say, when you talk about disrespect to and what i have learned from the chairman, it is an utter outrage. How is a city that size not getting the funding that is sent to the state on a routine basis . Number two, how do those leaders let that happen . How does that happen . And so mister chairman, i think we should use the precious time we have left to ask these people, how do you let that happen . Maybe we can learn the details of obvious incompetence and malfeasance. And make sure that we fashion things Going Forward that are these people should not have been let off the hook. They have let the people of jackson down, just like they did in flint. After flint, how do we let another flint happen . That is outrageous. So id love to talk more about it. But i want to make sure i acknowledge it. Just again, very quickly, you kind of touched on it a little bit. The infrastructure bill was passed. We are quite proud of that, and i expended a lot of Political Capital on that one. But i am wondering, how much it has helped the Water Systems and how much is going to help the Water Systems Going Forward from a security standpoint and from an infrastructure standpoint. If you can just tell me briefly, what do you think in that regard. I think its a step in the right direction. It is without a doubt, not enough. There is more money needed. But also, whats needed is to make sure that the money is going to the right communities. It shouldnt just be spread out and go to communities that have a young system. Here in d. C. , more than 80 of our water system, or our pipes are near their age of being replaced. So you have to make sure the money is going to the right place. But it does have shortfalls, without a doubt. I know very well from my district, and other rural districts, how much they are affected. So talking about Human Capacity issues that some Rural Communities face, you also mentioned the utilities that were forced to pass on additional costs because they cant afford them. Youve run a similar system. If a Small Community wanted to protect their customers from a related incidents, how would this cost affect low income communities . How do you do it . We cutback. As i noted, im a parttime employee there. And we simply have to cut back. We have to use our workers to help us, and to even come close to that. The chemical cost alone has got to be passed on to the consumer, there is no other way to dodge that bullet. As far as the labor force goes, we even use some Sheriffs Department help undoing some hydro maintenance, and stuff of that nature. We try to get some summer help, parttime. We are doing everything we can to alleviate the cost to our customer. We are doing everything we can. As far as the infrastructure goes, the biggest thing thats happening with the infrastructure, money is great. The backlog right now is and also, because of the american act, these communities cant get materials. So thats been an obstacle. The answer to your question is thank you very much. I want to touch base on something different. Something thats very concerning to me, and that is the cyber vulnerabilities. The vulnerability of the cyber network. That is the biggest threat to our country right now. Five years ago, isisinspired acts of violence. And certainly, but could you summarize for us briefly some of your concerns with respect to cyber in what we can do about it . The first thing is with the invasion of ukraine, we are dealing with nation sponsorship. This is we are no longer looking at chaos, we are looking at the ability to mobilize our economies we serve on a board of a major utility across all of these infrastructures. Cyber threats are diplomas, and its far greater than ransomware. So i think the work that the citizen does. The information that is going down. This is an active threat, and i look at two things, cyber climate. Neither of these things we are planning for. Clear at the pinnacle to our nation. I yield back. The chair recognizes the gentleman the new jersey. Thank you, mister chairman. Mr. Goddess, we are seeing a wave of cyberattacks crippling parts of the infrastructure. Chemical plants. Manufacturers and meatpackers. Last year, a hacker gained access to a Water Treatment plant in florida. And was able to change the chemical settings in a way that, if i detected, would have poisoned the local water supply. The water crisis in jackson mississippi was not caused by a hacker, it demonstrates the damage that the failures and disruptions will cause. Mr. Goddess, incidents like the one in florida or the more recent Ransomware Attack that crippled the south Water Company in the uk, driving stronger cybersecurity practices within the sector. I am sorry, i did not hear the last part of your question, i apologize, the very last part. That is okay. Would you consider driving Stronger Security practices within the water sector because of those incidents . Its a great point you make. The cybersecurity is very important. Its a very much similar to the infrastructure. The costs are outrageous for utilities to continue down the path that were continuing down today to keep the utility safe we had d. C. Water to everything we can. Were in a better position than a number of other utilities throughout the country. In which we on a daytoday basis, we are looking at a cyber, were looking at the attacks. We have a number of threats that come through our system on a daytoday basis. At the end of the day, the utilities are very prone to cyberattacks. It is something that we have to continue to build up. We have to continue to work with the federal government, with epa, with others to find funding for cyber as well. Thank you,. Since the variety of our programs in and operators and all sectors including water shore up and cybersecurity defenses, mr. Geddes, has d. C. Water taken advantage of any of the Cybersecurity Services . The programs like we joint Cyber Defense collaborative. Yes, we do. We set on a number of those organizations and on the committees and working with them. We take full advantage of all of the cybersecurity expertise that we can get from these organizations. Including the epa, many others regarding cyber. The answer is yes to your question. Thank you, to my colleagues, if you districts havent taken advantage of the programs, i would suggest that you take a look at them. With that, mister chairman, i yield back. Gentlemen yields back, the chair recognizes the gentleman from louisiana for five minutes, mr. Higgins. Thank, you mister chairman, i appreciate you having this hearing today. Its been startling observing whats happening with the Water Quality, in the capital of our sovereign states, my wife is from mississippi. We are familiar with jackson. My observation over the course of my life, obviously, south louisiana, we have to deal with a lot of water. We have hurricanes, we have a lot of coastal land in the gulf of mexico. Theres heavy rain, dealing with flood issues and preparations for flood mitigation. The expenditures required, the focus and the discipline of our local elected officials to prepare the next generation for major water events and to provide quality water for our says this is the role of local elected officials. In my observations have been that the quality women effectiveness of water and drainage in our municipality directly reflects the effectiveness of leadership. I think mr. Ware gadis could address this question. Why would one municipality which shares a common geographical region with other cities of similar size and funding revenue, why would one municipality be effective in dealing with water and another knot . Each utility has its own differences, trust me. Even the proximity of some of those utilities, they can get sometimes totally different types of rainfall. For example, you talk about a 15year rainfall, 15 year flood type of rainfall, we have had that happen in d. C. Now on three or four different occasions in the past few years. As a result of that, i think each utility has also spent their money in different places as well. Dont you think Water Quality is sort of a cornerstone to recover from anything . It would seem that we have an example inside of louisiana, and have had personal experience with my father after he retired some work as a consultant engineer for Jefferson Parish in the 70s. In the louisiana, we have parishes. The rest of the country has counties. Same thing. Jefferson parish was installed and up grading very advanced drainage pumping systems. That was based upon 1976 coren jr. Study that indicated that major water events can and in a category five hurricane or if they had a ruptured levy or something could cause major flooding in Jefferson Parish and orleans parish. You had neighboring parishes in louisiana during the course of the 70s and the 80s. Jefferson parish was very effectively run. They installed stateoftheart pumps and drainage. Orleans parish was poorly run. Neighboring parishes had vastly different experiences. To me, you are the expert on this particular topic. I care about my colleagues for territory in mississippi. I stand by, as your neighbor, mr. Chairman, to help in any way that we can. To address this at the federal level including grab sharing best practices from some of our some of your colleagues, citizens and lisa palate ease in louisiana. Mr. Get is, what do you suggest is the first course of action. I will give you my remaining 32nd, sir. What should municipality of jackson do to immediately respond to this . I think its hard to talk about jackson itself. I think that as it unfolds, we will figure out and find out more information. In my experience, my history in this industry, that is what happens. I think we should not be quick to take a look at this and say, here is our blame or whatever. That is going to take time. This is something i think that has happened over a number of different a number of years and different leadership. You pointed to that earlier about leadership and that is a key factor in i think operating and managing a utility as well. Thank you, mr. Gadis. Think you mister chairman. I yield back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from missouri, mr. Cleaver, five minutes. Unmute yourself mister cleaver. Thank you, mister chairman, i apologize. I was off the grid for a minute. Thank you very much. I want to zero in, if i could, please, on the tragedy down in jackson for, mississippi. I read somewhere that addressing the needs of poor people and so we have a lot of evil going on around the world. I would like for our panelists to address particularly fema in terms of preparedness, are their systems around the country right now that are in as much difficulty and as much degradation as we have seen in jackson, mississippi . Yes, sir. It is just a matter of time that they fail and have another disaster. A lot of the things we go to our result of what i call, the resiliency divide, where we have not had the investments made. We are not maintaining the systems. There is not the economics to do that. From where i am at in north florida, where i grew up, it is hard for communities. They have to compete with the city of miami when they are going for grants. One of the things fema is trying to address as making sure we level the playing field. It is not just people with professional staff, fulltime resources and go get the money. If we are not making our investments across the nation based upon impacts our needs, we will continue to grow our resiliency divides between the haves and havenots. Where i am at in north florida, big communities will get the grants. Vulnerable communities, rivers, streams that will impact their systems as we saw back in 1998 across the state, the ones that got wiped out were the small jurisdictions who did not have the resources to build higher and they had total failure. It would cost us more taxpayers because we were dealing most with response and rebuilding. Im also concerned about this 8 Million Dollar threshold, which small communities have to meet in order to get a response from federal government and some sort of declaration of emergency from fema. It fits in with what you were just saying. In terms of smaller communities, i do not like it hurts me to say but also communities that are of color. Is there a need for us to maybe spend time trying to make corrections in our policies so that smaller communities and communities of color are not ignored . The reason i say that is the smaller communities are not entitled cities in terms of where the federal promptly commutes. For example, i live in kansas city, missouri. The largest city in our state. We will have the resources but lets say a little small time like or rick, which was hit by a tornado, ended up without receiving much attention and no money from the federal government at all. I obviously we cannot leave this to the wealth of congress because we are not acting. Maybe we need to do something with the way fema is constructed so that we can proactively build some of these especially now that we have these infrastructure money. I dont know how anyone can vote against him. Anyway, i want to get a response from you. I would defer this back to fema. I think it may be useful for the chairman to ask fema to come in and brief on how administrator griswold is addressing this and try to make sure that particularly in the Building Infrastructure communities, that fema congress is providing billions for pre disaster mitigation. The steps they are taking to address these very issues, to make sure the money does not go to the ones that always get, it that we are looking at rural america, we are looking at travel governments, we are looking at impacts to people and how they are doing that. I yield back, mister chairman. I thank you very much. We have had a top with fema administrator. She, as you said, is well aware of it. They are actually in the middle of trying to come up with new policies to address just what representative cleaver is talking about and a lot of other communities that impacted. Chair recognizes the gentleman from mississippi, mr. Guest for five minutes. Thank, you mister chairman. To all our witnesses, thank you for being here on this in a very important topic. The city of jackson is a city that i, along with chairman thompson, both represent. We have both been in meetings with elected officials, state elected officials, city elected officials. Our offices have been in contact with federal and state agencies and our currently working to try to find solutions to this problem. I know many of you referenced our capital city in your reports that you provided prior to your testimony here today. I want to ask you, i know you referenced the city of jackson. You talked about both flooding in pretty existing conditions that may have been a factor. Are you familiar with the city of jackson . Have youve been briefed or receive any information specifically on the Current Crisis that is currently being mitigated . Are you just aware from media reports that you have received . Media reports and some discussions with various staff but i have not been directly involved nor have i been briefed on the specifics. What information are you aware as far as the preexisting conditions that may have existed . I know generally you talk on the final page of your written testimony about i dont know if this is specifically to jackson you talk about aging infrastructure, financial help, delayed maintenance, low staffing, lack of training. Those things you all list will increase the likelihood of a system failure. Do any of those are those applicable to the water system failure in the city of jackson . We based upon the reports, they were having Water Quality issues before the flooding. We actually that statement did not come from jackson. That was basically looking at the American Water Works Association of what are indicators or risks they see across the nation and what Water Systems. This is much more widespread in just looking at what happened in jackson. We let me specifically, and again, with me representing a portion of the capital city, we continue to talk specifically about the city of jackson. This was an article published by the mississippi today, one of our local Media Outlets on august 31st. It says, fed flag our jackson water problem a month before the system failure. Our water system in the city of jackson has been under an epa increase since 2013. There was a followup decree that was later interred into, i believe, in 2021 if im not mistaken between the city of jackson and epa. There was a report that epa published in july of this year, just a few weeks before the failure of the jackson water system, and these were some of the things that were cited in that epa report. Poor administration, lack of staff, and said operator turnover high with some reporting working 75 hours a week without overtime pay. The report talks about finances are in shambles. Said the city was unable to provide a complete list of customers when inspectors visited. Explain some customers received no bill while other received large bills. The city cannot calculate its collection rate and said this issue is not something expected to be resolved until late 2024. It also referred to the malfunction of water meters which have contributed to a 30 decrease in revenue that 1400 bills were stranded or not sent or received by customers. It talks about customer complaints, lack of routine monitoring and maintenance. It said that the city failed to collect and record continuous pressure data which could identify problems within the system. It talks about water and storage tanks that were not cycled. It talks about frequent line breaks. Instead reports from 2017 to 2021, said the average line break was 55 per 100 miles of line parks eating the 15 per 100 miles a year that is considered safe. My question is, these things that you see here in this report specifically as it relates to the city of jackson. It appears that it was definitely a contributing factor to the crisis. I think what you are saying is this is not unique to the city of jackson. This is something that many of our major urban cities particularly older cities that have not had recent growth, that they are experiencing and this is the reason there needs to be both state, federal and local action to address these problems nationwide, is that correct . Yes, sir. Thank, you mister chairman. I believe i am out of time. Gentleman yields back. Chair recognizes dennings. I thank you to all of our witnesses for being with us today and for being here with the, i think, sole purpose of solving problems. That is exactly, i believe, wow we were elected to not just to point fingers. If pointing fingers helps us solve problems then lets do that but we are here to solve problems. I appreciate the remarks of the chairman, the remarks of the Ranking Member who asked a question, how did we let this happen . After flint. How do we find ourselves in this situation again . Mr. Pfluger, its great to see you as a former floridian. You said probably when jackson occurred, they said, oh thats just jackson. I believe that is probably true but it appears on all that i have heard this morning is that we knew or we shouldve known that jackson was going to happen. You also said, when asked a question about other jurisdictions, that its just a matter of time. Are we going to have a proactive approach to dealing with this or are we going to sit back and just let it be just a matter of time and say, oh well, that is just whatever city is next. We know that communities of color and rural and small communities have been left behind and left out of the process. We know that so the question today before us is how do we fix that . How do we make that right . How do we make sure that every community regardless of their zip code or where they are will have access to quality Drinking Water . We also know that one size does not fit all. I will start with you, how do we develop frameworks that will properly addressed evolving threats . We know that systems have failed because they were not adequately prepared in the first place but we know or should know how do we develop the frameworks to make sure that we are ready for future threats . More extreme weather, flooding, cyberattacks . We are doing a lot of it across a lot of agencies. When i was looking through all of the reports, i could not put my finger in any places. Triage the priorities are making these investments. You have epa who does their work and does very well and identifies these issues. You have dhs looking at cyber risk in the vulnerabilities infrastructure. One of the things that we are seeing is mapping more of what extreme rainfall looks like and what those vulnerabilities are. The general county office has made recommendations back to congress that probably with epas lead but with the core of engineers, fema, and a lot of others that provide this funding. Can we be more targeted . The term i learned from a mentor, move away from discovery learning and go find out which of our systems, now, our most vulnerable and look at how we prioritize that targeting. It may not necessarily be a division across populations or states, it maybe there are parts of the country that have different risk, different needs between droughts and extreme rainfall events that are systems were not built for. Notwithstanding maintenance issues, funding issues, training issues, leadership issues. It is just all accelerating. I think a triage list was where i would start. Get all the agencies, come back, say can we come up with a criteria to measure Water Systems . Do not forget, the little systems are just as vulnerable. Maybe a couple of hundred people, maybe a dozen people, but if the water goes out in the city of across, not only do they have no Drinking Water, they do not have any firefighter water. With the limited time i have, mr. Oconnell, i am certainly aware of the challenges of small Rural Communities and you have talked about them, lack of budget, lack of personnel, resources. What are your recommendations on how smaller communities will Rural Communities can prepare themselves moving forward for cyberattacks . Bottom line is training and people to provide that training in and lowcost situation. As i said before, the situation is going to get much worse. We are facing 50 reduction in utility, jobs in the next 3 to 4 years nationwide. 75 in new york state alone. You think you have difficult times right this minute, give yourself three or four years and magnitude this problem ten times over. We need more people in the field to go to the utilities in a no cost situation so that we can provide these people with the proper training and give them more preparedness of what is to come down the road. Thank you. I am out of time. Mister chairman, i yield back. Young lady yields back. Chair recognizes the lady from tennessee for five minutes. Megan , sir chairman and Ranking Member and all the witnesses. I want to follow up with what representative dennings was talking about. Mr. Oconnell, you said you believe the bureaucratic hoops that small utilities can secure those favorable grants to turn a lot of these small Water Utilities from pursuing these funds. I live in a rural district in my office has held specific county for secure funding through these Grant Programs. What kind of changes. You talked about the drainage at no cost. What kind of changes should be made that is deterring these small utilities from pursuing these grants and what can be done to better inform these smaller rural utilities and these opportunities, sir . My opinion goes back to what i said before. The small utilities do not have the resources. They do not have itv people. A lot of them are parttime. A lot of them are retired people working parttime. The only answer i have right this minute is we need to have more people that can go to these communities, that can intercept between utility and fema and the federal programs to cut the red tape, to make it easier for them and to be more in line with how they can get their money to take care of the problems before the fact, during the fact and after the fact. Like you said, if they cannot hire operators whether they have the capacity to hire, them the funding, whatever, how in the world are they going to dedicate cybersecurity in how or those Cyber Security personnel to confront the threats that we face today . Is it just increased funding or tell me what else we can do . I do not have the full answer to that with small communities. I can tell you that a lot of communities around the country still do not have accessible to community computers. Many rural areas do not have computers, they do not have i. T. People. The only thing that i can describe is a reasonable answer is the national Water Association through the state affiliations that we all have, all 50 states have. To provide the resources that we need to put more people in the situation to educate them as best we can from the resources they have to protect their interest. Do i have 100 percent answer to that . Im sorry, maam, i do not. If i did, i would be a rich guy but i do not have the answer to the rural water situation. I can only offer what we can do now and in the future to educate the personnel that is there with our limited resources they have through the National World organization which is a Nonprofit Organization that goes to affiliate utilities and will help them through any kind of emergency manner or any other manner that we can provide services for to make themselves whole week. Sir, you said that they did not have to come to you, they would come to them. How can we approach them and what can i do for the Water Utility groups . How do we get you to come to me . Simple answer, you pick up the phone, you call your state Rural Water Association and we will be there within 24 hours, if not sooner if its an emergency. If its an emergency, we are on a call 24 7, 365 days a year and we react to emergency and necessity of that and we will put people there immediately. I appreciate that. I will be visiting some of those Water Utility back in my district in the month of october. We will make them aware that it is always a possible to pick the phone up and call you. We will hope them as best we can to get the funding needed to protect the people they serve. I appreciate you. With that, mister chairman, i yield back. Young lady leals back. Chairman recognizes the young man from rhode island. Think, you mister chairman. Good morning to our witnesses. Thank you for your testimony here today. Some of you have a very important topic. We are focusing on aspects of securing the i. T. Infrastructure. Mr. Gadis had quite a few things to say that resonated with me in this opening statement. I appreciate that. In 2021, water Sector Coordinating Councils surveyed noted, just over 30 of responded water and wasteWater Systems had identified all of their Network Operational technology assets. Just under 40 have identified all i. T. Network assets. Establishing a complete inventory of these assets is obviously essential for such entities to improve the security. One cannot defend what one cannot see. Mr. Gadis, mr. Oconnell, what are some of the challenges that water and wasteWater Utilities face in identifying the i. T. And lp assets . What federal assistance needed to support and accelerate efforts by water and wasteWater Systems to improve visibility of their Network Assets . To start out with, thank you very much for the question, but i think, first of all, it takes a village. I know d. C. Water we have a large i. T. Department that is protecting us on a daytoday basis. Also, it is a partnership locally either with your state or your city. I will tell you in the District Of Columbia, we have a Great Partnership with mayor maria bowser and her team, which they assist us. Not only on infrastructure but also taking a look at the i. T. Side of our business as well. I think it is key that utilities take advantage of states, federal and also in their city getting those services for those utilities but also looking to epa and others to help them as well. The last thing i would say is unfunded federal mandates are putting a lot of pressure on utilities, not only on the cyber side but the infrastructure side. I think that is something we need to begin to take a look at as a community and also without putting the burden on the ratepayers. Our ratepayers have to make a decision. Do they pay their water bill . Do they pay another bill or whatever it may be . The federal mandates are pushing theres a very hard as well on utilities. We mr. Oconnell, do you have any comment there . Good comments he made. It always comes down to personnel and monies, Unfunded Mandates as he spoke to. To give you an example, what do i do when i need i. T. Help . Unfortunate to have a daughter that works at pinnacle investment. She has a team view on my computer and when i get to a gym, she helps me. I have to use resources beyond and above what i have available at my community. Im sure other communities use the same practice because we are in rural areas and do not have money for i. T. Department. We are not a city. The best resource that i can actually tell you that we have to fundamentally take care of the ongoing system problems is through the state associated that we have in rural areas and you jersey, new york and all the rest of the states have. That is the only real resource we have to combat these expenses that are contributed towards keeping our water and wasteWater Systems safe. The ultimate goal is that we all want to keep our water safe. We all live in our communities, we drink our water, we fish in our streams, we fish in our lakes. We are doing the best we can with the resources we have. Fundamentally, is it going to get worse . The answer is yes. Fundamentally, what is the answer to that . Increase and training as i have stressed upon 100 times today. Increase of personnel and not to be epa to have new regulations mullet make them funded with new resources. Before my time expires, so the same wastewater survey found 73 of responding wasteWater Utility had between zero and two fulltime employees dedicated to security. If both of our witnesses are there, i can appreciate the resourcing challenges that many Water Utilities face and hiring the personnel they need to secure the systems and assets. My question is, are there other challenges such as lack of availability of Cybersecurity Talent with specific knowledge of the water system. Also, there also needs to be addressed and if so how can the federal government and congress specifically help Water Utilities are just those challenges . Is there a particular witness . Mr. Gadis. We can start with mr. Gadis. Im not sure i would not point immediately to the talent out there. The talent is out there. I think its about building the team to do so. As i stated earlier, sometimes what is keeping utilities from building this team is that they do not have the funds. Chemicals. I know for us a d. C. Water, increased by 17 million in one year. 17 million. That was 100 percent increase. When you have those sort of things happening, its tough to put together 18 to be able to fight Cyber Security and also again, the Unfunded Mandates come into play. I think when you start looking at all the expenses, i think that is what is keeping a number of utilities from protecting themselves from a cyber standpoint but it is very, very important that they do so. We must change. Well taken. I know my time expired. Thank you, mister chairman. I yield back. Chairman recognizes young lady from florida, miss cammack, for five minutes. Thank you, mister chairman, thank you to Ranking Member katko, and thank you to our witnesses for appearing today. I want to give a special shout out to my constituent, mr. Fugate. Thank you for being here. I had to tell my team that mr. Fugate is coming. No, we are from the south, it is called fugate. This is an incredibly important topic and it has been a little bit funny to hear so many names of our communities heard in this hearing today like lacrosse and broker and where the newton springs because we do represent a large swath of Rural Communities that really do struggle when it comes to a Water Infrastructure. Being a hurricane state, i think florida knows best. Some of the issues that we face when it comes to preparedness and resiliency. It is clear that our nations water system is one of the most important infrastructure components in the country. The decentralized nature of the system often runs by local governments can make a challenging one addressing improvements and security for Water Infrastructure. Every community has different needs and resources when it comes to water. I think it has been said before. The one size fits all approach does not work. I think both republicans and democrats can agree on that fact but its also that decentralized nature that i think also is helpful in limiting some of these major attacks that we have seen. Im going to jump into my question starting with you, mr. Oconnell, my districts neighbors in florida just barely avoided a deadly cyberattack last year when the Drinking Water was poisoned by a bad actor. We are incredibly thankful that the incident did not end as devastatingly as it couldve been and we continue to process Lessons Learned from the attack. Now i understand the Debate Centers around connecting Industrial Control Systems to the internet and we see interconnected systems offer opportunity for greater efficiencies and modernization but again, as i mentioned, there could be a greater threat when they are all connected. First part of this is, would you say is common practice to have rural Water Utilities connecting system to the internet . That is the first part. Second part, if yes, do you think that these utilities have the proper protocols in place to protect their systems from Cyber Threats that have the potential for cascading impacts across Operational Technology and Informational Technology systems . If no, i know i am making this very complicated, but i have an endgame here, i promise. If you know, what could we do to help the smaller utilities in florida but also around the country and across the nation both modernize and secure their systems . I know i threw a lot at you. Its okay. I did not know if i can answer at all anyway. The first part of your question i would say no. I would say i do not know what the percentages of people that have Remote Access to a gym eyes over the cell networks. It is becoming a more necessary for them to do that as the Technology Moves Forward and the water waste industry. Its going to be more common and more rural utilities are going to have to adapt to that because just on the function ability of the wasteWater Equipment, which i am very savvy on, i work for a company that provides wastewater and Water Equipment for all utilities in new york state. As we move forward with that technology, it is going to be more common of a problem with rural areas in all areas because we are networking through our cell phone systems to be able to act quickly or quicker to problems that exist in the water plants and the wastewater plants. What is the answer to having that so its not being hacked into . I am not sure i can answer that question to you. I can surmise and give you my opinion that we are going to have to have more protection on our cell phone systems. There is going to have to be different passwords, things of those nature will have to be implemented unfortunately for a lot of folks like me, as a farmer, it takes a lot of training for me to understand how to do that. That is when it becomes back to state associations, rural water to provide that kind of resource to help them with that. Reality is, with the new equipment coming out, we are all going to have to be more savvy with that because you are not going to have a choice. The other problem is, our product lines that are becoming more and more available to the rural areas, we do not have repair people like we used to. They are going to have to rely on Internet Services to do inhouse repair. I try to answer your question, i hope i did. If not, i apologize. I appreciate it. I know my time is expired, mr. Chairman, but i do have a question for the record i will submit for mr. Fugate as well. I yield back. The young ladys time has expired. We recognize miss barragan. Thank you, mister chairman, for holding todays hearing for approving the resilience of Critical Infrastructure for underserved communities. As the Climate Crisis worsens, communities of color are bearing the burden of a lack of under investment in our infrastructure. We see it in puerto rico. Hurricane fiona cause a power outage. We see it in jackson, mississippi. Residents in the year 2022 did not have access to clean water. This has also happened in my district. A few years ago, Compton Brown had brown water come out of their faucets. The resilience of Critical Infrastructure, congressman has advocated for underserved communities to be in front of the line. Administrator, and the event of Hurricane Maria five years ago that it devastated puerto rico and left no access for months. The recovery has still been ongoing. Billions of dollars we have provided in alluding [inaudible] to improve our grid. Not enough has been done to fix puerto ricos power grid and straighten their infrastructure. What additional steps do you recommend Congress Take to make sure the residents of puerto rico are benefiting from the federal Funds Congress provides for the recovery from Hurricane Fiona and for greater resilience so that this is not happening again . Representative, two things, one, we have to really be stringent in making sure that we rebuild to much higher standards. Not just put it back the way it was. The second thing, the chairman knows as, i have spoken on this before, we got to speed up the Recovery Process. Our Recovery Process when i was at fema coming in at five years, it barely scratches surface on Hurricane Katrina. When i left fema, i approved a billion dollar project for waterways for repairs for the city of new orleans water and sewage system. Ten years after Hurricane Katrina hit. We have got to speed up the process of getting capital in quickly, spent wisely and implementing the improve system. The timeframes between disasters has increased in a frequency that no longer allows us the luxury of decades of recovery. Thank you for that. I know under the last hurricane, Speaker Pelosi was there. We heard about people who also were having a hard time with documents and papers to fema. I do hope there will be efforts to make sure we do everything we can to assist. I want to follow up with you, administrator, about something i read about this morning. Roughly 50,000 rooftop solar rays have been installed across the island. The vast majority of which are hooked up to a battery backup system. The year before maria, only 5000 Solar Systems were in place and a few of them had batteries. Hurricane fiona has put these recently installed systems to the test and reports have shown that they have helped maintain powerful buildings where it has been installed. Mister administrator, how can congress encourage more rooftop solar and Battery Systems for Critical Infrastructure in puerto rico and throughout our country . I think its a great idea. Personally, i like to try to figure out how other agencies were doing affordable housing. We are not talking about putting solar in everything. We are talking about enough solar to keep the refrigerator cool, keep the fan on, charge electronics, provide ability for medical equipment to work. That is not an outrageous cost. The Technology Already exists. I think every opportunity when we go and rebuild, every time we provide funding of, homes we ought to be looking at the opportunity to provide a backup emergency power source such as solar. So that they have minimal function ability. I have been through enough hurricanes. Trust me. The first couple of days without power is an inconvenience. Of all time you get to week five. People start suffering and medical conditions get worse. The cost to us as responders continues to increase the taxpayers providing services. Things like rooftop solar. Not trying to do the full 100 percent backup but providing a minimal bible amount of power to me is like a nobrainer. We have to be figuring out how across our programs we can make it available so when power does go out, we know its going to go on hurricanes, it does not devastate our citizens while they are waiting for restoration time. Our systems are not built to withstand these storms. It may be faster to build resiliency at a Household Level when you are trying to build resiliency across our grid. Thank you. I do think we need to invest in clean energy micro rates for infrastructure. These are the kinds of investments that we need to make for resiliency. I have a bill called the Energy Resilient Community Act and i will make sure to provide. My other question i have for mr. Gadis for the record. I yield back. Chair recognizes the young lady from iowa, miss meeks for five minutes. Thank you to all our witnesses. This is an interesting discussion that we are having today both on the cybersecurity front and some of the questions i have been abstinence or two i will not ask for those to be expanded upon. I am in southeast iowa which has both urban in a lot of rural areas. I have met with my water so ca shun and i am on a roll Water Association. I drink my tap water, cook with the tap water and feel very secure but its interesting, mister gadis, its not a question directed at you but i want to underscore something that you said. Too often this happens in congress and in state legislator as well. You said, unfunded federal mandates cause issues. Whether thats issues we have heard today about workforce, having a labor force while in washington, d. C. , it may not be a problem having cybersecurity, is certainly can be an issue in other rural areas where there are i. T. People but do not want to come out to a rural area. The cost of supplies and activities. When i have spoken with my Rural Water Association, my state water so ca shun, the regulations that they have come down from the federal government and epa even if its the chemicals that they are measuring, what they are a measuring, the amounts which are things that they feel are unnecessary given their long history makes it more challenging for them to do the job that they are doing and increase the requirements. Whether its the challenge it is to work for us, the cost of supply, the time and travel necessary to do things but they feel in their experience to keep water clean is unnecessary. When we are talking about giving people training, we also need to look at what credential we are requiring, what education we are requiring and are there other ways to provide training for people to do these jobs especially in Rural Communities. Mr. Oconnell, in the united states, 91 of active drinking Water Systems serve communities with populations under 10,000 people. To your point. Furthermore, 60 of those serve populations of 500 of you. Were giving this fact, can you talk about how critical it is for small and rural Water Utilities to have proper resources and funding and i think also, mr. Fugate, you mentioned not missing the opportunity to not serve our rural Water Systems. The system i take care of has 360 taps. Im kind of familiar with what happens in small systems. We are lucky that we have had resources to provide safe water and infrastructure for wastewater. We do not have a waste water plant, we disperse water from a neighboring community this supplies us with water. I have been very active with educating our boards. How crucial this is to keep up on infrastructure and putting money away for future developments and repairs. I think its a planning thing. I think its a training thing. I think its educating the people that you work for, our boards. Unfortunately in new york state, the boards and small towns in communities and villages, are not required to have board training so its up to the wastewater operator to not step onto many toes and to educate those folks there really give us our orders and what to do and how to spend our money on what we have to create for the future. That is basically a network of monies to be utilized to keep our system as great as we can possibly make it, great is not the great word i want to use but its the word that came out. We are proactive in the Little Community we have of 260 hookups. Are we in debt . The answer is yes. I think the infrastructure was worth it. I think they thought it was worth a Long Term Plan and the training from our Rural Water Association has mitigated us to not get in trouble with our epa or deal wage. If it had not been for those resources that we could utilize within our Small Community, we would probably be in trouble. I would agree with that. Our local and state Rural Water Associations have done a tremendous job. In your testimony you stated, i know my time is running out, so if you want to answer this question after the fact and submit written, that would be great, but one small towns like my need help and operating our Water Utilities, understanding new and complex clean water acts and save drink water acts requirements, received the required to maintain our licenses and the latest resiliency practices we call in our state rule water so ca shun and asked for Technical Assistance. More to the point in this also scores what mr. Gadis said. Would you be able to elaborate and find if you submit this in writing, i know our time is limited, what are some of the complex federal regulations Water Utilities deal with every day that you all may find are overreaching and further complicate your ability to do the job of keeping our water clean and safe . If you would submit those to us afterward, i would greatly appreciate it. Thank you. We will make sure that the answers are responded to accordingly. Thank you, chairman. To the Ranking Member for holding us and all of you for being here today, i think the shared goal of this hearing is so that would get out of the load of reaction. I am broadly categorizing disasters that occur because of the impact of a lack of preparation and those that occur because of neglect. Jackson, mississippi was a combination of the two. Michigan and flint, it was neglect. Ann arbor, it was neglect. And in each time the, federal government with some federal resources, they had to come in after the fact. Well that problem is waiting to be addressed, its a disadvantage committee that is suffering from that. They are having tainted Drinking Water, having to find other means of getting what should be an expectation in the superpower in the 24 century, which is that you turn on the top and Potable Water comes out. You mentioned that lack of transparency around Water Quality and other relic services that that has engendered a sense of mistrust and a declining belief that government is actually there to serve the people, especially on a venus supple level i. I could not agree more. I think one of our challenges nothing we are talking about here is rockets ions, right . Weve had the systems for a century. There have been improvements in transportation. They are been improvements in transportation and cleanliness. We do not need to reinvent the wheel here. I think the two most pernicious words in infrastructure are deferred maintenance and what happens as a result. All too often as, we are living on investments in this country which were made we are talking about our electrical grid in the post world war ii area. It was also postwar. Our Aviation Transportation sector in the 1960s and 1970s and in some cases the 80s one goes to the Water Infrastructure. That could go back a century or a century and a half. Downtown grand rapids, when we were preparing a new area for a stadium, they found water lines that were wooden that had been carrying water for upwards of 170 years. I should say 150 years in that case. How do we get out of that cycle and how can to the, point on transparency, not just the quality today, but the known risk factors which will impact quality down the line weve done fantastic work across the country of an eye defined lead Drinking Water lines it has been strongly beneficial. What we had in flints it was an Emergency Program to replace. The lines had already been degraded because of the different ph balances of the water coming in from the switch source rather than what is far more costeffective and far more sustainable at the community level, which is doing the wonderful project. You are replacing the sewer main. You are replacing any connected lines while you are also taking care of laying down fiber or other improvements. I will sit down inside. What can the federal government start to require or suggest around the quality of existing infrastructure, the Forward Productions of how do we get out of the cycle so that citizens are empowered to demand of their Public Officials that they dont sacrifice the investments of today which should be made only to find themselves in a position where they should be betraying the confidence of their constituents when the moment comes . Thank you so much for the question. One of the things that the federal government could do is ensure that there is transparency and desegregated data. The data is not really there. For example, when you look at the data that is within the website of the epa, its not just aggregated as it is relating to race, it overarch is communities of color. It doesnt go in the types of pollutants which exist within communities. That kind of information is really helpful. The streams of funding oftentimes go to the states. At the federal level, if there were more streams of funds which actually go directly to communities, that would help to ensure that folks could get the resources they need more quickly. Those streams are loans. If you are already in a situation where you dont have the money to actually fix those problems, alone is not really what you needed that moment. You need actual direct investment into the communities. The Technical Assistance as well needs to be reflected by what they need. My time is almost expired anything you wanted to add . The municipal water system seems to have done a very good job. Yes. Real quick, i mean, what i would add again it falls back to a communication and being prepared. Really having a team that can provide information that is needed to attack or actually do a number of things that need to be done within the system. Finding out what assets are vulnerable and then making smart decisions on what assets you would repair versus allowing them to go to a failure. In d. C. , one of the things we talked about is a lead free d. C. That has really impacted and from an equity standpoint regardless of race or color or whatever it may be, you are going to get quality water and you are going to measure no one should be drinking from lead Service Lines. Thats one of the things we have to do throughout the country. Thank you. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentleman from texas for five minutes, mr. Pfluger. Thank you, mister chairman. What a great topic to be discussing and talking about Critical Infrastructure. As the threat continues to increase around the world in the cyber domain, we have to be cognizant of how we are defending. A lot of my questions have been asked. I will go to mr. Oconnell. I appreciate what you do. Thank you for your time today. My specific question is, you know, what are you getting from the epa by way of good, actionable intelligence which helps you bolster through your organization and therefore the communities . Is intel flowing . Are the round tables happening . If not, what do we need to do better . I can only speak on be half of the District Of Columbia and d. C. Water. We have a great relationship with the epa. The information is flowing. We are interacting very well. I will say that one of the things that impacted not only me but the utility when i first came to d. C. Water was a boiled water alert that we had to put out. That helped us in building our relationship with the epa. Theyre guided us and helped us through this. That is very, very important in any community that you live in. The epa has been fantastic for us. Thats good to hear in the urban area. The Population Centers with the National Rural Water Association, whats your take on information flow from cisa . I can tell you that we are involved with roundtable discussions. Jack a few years ago, i would say as much as ten years ago, we were not invited to the table. Recognizing that what we do now is where we make house calls, we are more active in the epa and cisa roundtable discussions to get the input as a recognized we are being invited. We are being in discussion with all of these agencies. We do give our testimonies and statements and our views on new epa rulings and all of those structures which increase the cost. We dont want to increase cost one unnecessary. We want to keep water safe. We are hearing all of the negatives here today, but in my experience in the 34 years in this business, we still have the safest water in the world, the safest water in the world. I just want to stress that. Thats a good point. We dont have these hearings to pat ourselves on the back. We have these hearings to refine and sharp in the things which need to be refined and sharpened. It is nice to also give some credit where it is due. My advice and request to everyone is to let us know. The information flow is important. As we saw with colonial and a lot of things, my district, the town that i represent odessa, texas, had issues with water recently. These are things that we are very keenly interested in. Once again, mister chairman, thank you for holding this hearing. I yield back. Thank you very much. The gentleman yields back. We have hit all of our questions from all of our chair from texas for five minutes. I think the Ranking Member for holding this hearing and recognize the importance of dealing with a question of water or seeing the prices from pakistan to hurricanes in puerto rico and in the caribbean. Specifically, i want to raise the question, black and brown communities are one of the most vulnerable groups when it comes to the effects of Climate Change and extreme weather events. They often dont have the resources necessary to embrace or evacuated during extreme weather. More importantly, most of the communities that they live in to not have the funding for infrastructure a rebuild. Miss connor, knowing your work, can you describe the challenges extreme weather events have and vulnerable populations, including black and brown communities . What can the federal government to help these challenges. As you know, i think one of the major evidence is of that is my colleague chairman thompson who has faced the challenges that he has worked so extensively on in jackson mississippi. There are other known incidences where there have been water crises in for communities. Miss carter . Thank you so much. What we believe within our experience in the naacp is because the funding streams do not actually go to the historically disadvantaged communities, for example, in jackson, the funding streams typically go through mississippi. If the state decides that it does not want to create a system that will allow for jackson to get funding which will be able to help the Water Infrastructure, jackson is kind of stuck. There need to be more streams of funding which actually go directly into the communities. Oftentimes, there is Technical Assistance which is available, but it doesnt actually reflect what the communities are asking for at that moment. For example, if there is Technical Assistance in jackson, mississippi, and all they get out of it at that time this a report but they are saying, well, we actually are ready for the info implementation faces, that Technical Assistance is a mismatch. Even though there is federal funding in the streams for Technical Assistance, its not actually what the communities need at that moment. I mentioned earlier the data. There is not a lot of disaggregated data as it relates to toxins in pollution and communities when you look at the indexes that are readily available. Its really hard for folks to figure out what was happening in their communities. Because there has been deliver disinvestment for years within historically disadvantaged communities, black and brown communities, there does need to be a prioritization of their infrastructure. This is not to say that all infrastructures do not need to be reviewed, but when we know that there has been a deliberate disinvestment, there has to be a prioritization at the federal level in understanding and acknowledging how that has created even more issues for a place like jackson, mississippi. For example, jacksons problem has only increased. It was not in the billions before, but because there is continued disinvestment, theyre at the billions as it relates to being able to fix the problem. Thank you so very much. I think we need to reinforce the fact that the state of mississippi it was really at the center point, the focal point of not directing funds. Im glad the bipartisan infrastructure bill has equity provisions in there that we can insist that our communities which often to be everyones families can have equity in Water Infrastructure rebuild. Let me ask, mr. Fugate, let me quickly ask you in your capacity as the fema director, i just came back from pakistan where the flooding was catastrophic. We see what is happening in puerto rico. Tell me understand very quickly in overseeing Flood Disaster responses in water stream facilities, what specific assessment to recommend be made to measure any risks on current water facilities and what are some of the key emerging risks that water facilities may face . Is there any appetite for attacking water facilities by tariffs . Is that something that in your time of service was on the radar of fema . Thank you very much. I will answer the last question first. Water Treatment Facilities were on our radar when they got damaged in the disaster, not before. The other questions, as you saw, about bacchus ten, the way i would approach this is looking at the flood threat. There was a lot of stuff talking about cyber maintenance, deferred maintenance, all of that. We have to get away from getting away from 100 year flood event. What we should be bottling is how much water it takes before a system fails. Are we talking about inches or feet . That way, we will know how to triage our systems which of the greatest vulnerability to extreme rainfall events. We know this is no longer a tropical. It used to be a hurricane problem. Were seeing feet of water. Think about it, feet of water and Community Set in record setting flood events for infrastructure which was built on what was called 100 year flood. Its failing and preexisting conditions make it worse. We are behind. I would say Climate Change we, have it. What we built was not built for it. We need to go back and look at how much water it takes before it fails, now will probably stick rainfall events historically have been. Thank you so very much. I yield back. Your time has expired. Let me thank the witnesses. You have been excellent. Climate change is real. Its not just for conversation. We can see happening in our communities every day. I also want to associate myself with the statements made by the Ranking Member relative to having some kind of review of how jackson, mississippi was treated by both the state and federal agencies and the lack of funding. There is no question about it. The data will reflect what is and what is not. We look forward to having that review. The other thing is a part of the country with significant rural Water Systems. One of the holy grail is to talk about they are too small. Most people would say, look, thats a nobrainer. If you dont want to get out right, out of town. If you bring it up, you get run out of town. There are some efficiencies that you just have to have. Even through technology or a merger, you will have to have them. I know for the rural water people who actually came in and helped an urban center in jackson getting the system back up to go in, that response mechanism works. Its a matter of infrastructure. We just voted four trillion dollar package. We put it in place, the Ranking Members. We were one a few people on the republican side who voted for it. At last check, water is wet. Other than that, theres no i wish we couldve gotten more support for it. The question is whether or not the trillion dollars will go to the communities who really the most or will it just like all other money cant put in the pot. I hope we have a better solution to address that. We will really need it. With respect equity and fema, we are absolutely trying to move that conversation forward. Ive had several communities recently flooded completely. They didnt meet the damage threshold. The good people of rosedale, mississippi and mount by, mississippi or some of the finest folk in the world. They deserve to be addressed and is helpful a manner as possible and not just told, well, the damage, you are not rich enough to be covered. We are better country than that. If we were in beverly hills, california, one block would have qualified for potential damage assessment. Those are the issues we have to look at. Some of it is for the good of the country. We have to have them. I would also like to recognize bill simpson in the audience. I would call him an old friend, but i dont want to date him too much. He works in the rural water community. Its a good conversation we are having. Miss conner, i know you will do your best to help the people of jackson. There are regulations that have to be followed. We have to make sure the money gets to the community and they not be penalized by any entity. I look forward to the next step in that area. Let me thank the witnesses for their testimony in the members further questions. The members of the committee might have additional questions for the witnesses. We asked to respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. The chair reminds members that the committees the committee too much. He works in the rural water community. Its a good conversation we are having. Miss conner, i know you will do your best to help the people of jackson. There are regulations that have to be followed. We have to make sure the money gets to the community and they not be penalized by any entity. I look forward to the next step in that area. Let me thank the witnesses for their testimony in the members further questions. The members of the committee might have additional questions for the witnesses. We asked to respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. The chair reminds members that the committees the committee well ask students, its your time to shine, you are participated picture yourself as a newly elected member of congress. We asked this his competitors, what is your top priority . And why. We make a 5 to 6 minute video that shows the importance of your issue from opposing and supporting perspectives. Dont be afraid to take risks with your documentary. Be bold. 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But squatting in a diner for internet workers even harder. Thats why we are providing a lower income students access to affordable internet. Homework can just be homework. Cox connect to compete. Cox, along with these other television providers. Giving new front row seat to democracy. Up next, the hearing on the epas Brownfields Program being considered for reauthorization. The effort created in 1995 provides grants and Technical Assistance to communities, states, tribes, and others to assess and clean up contaminated properties. The Senate Environment a public were Committee Hearing is about two hours