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Transcripts For CSPAN3 Discussion On Slavery And The Freedom Trials 20150425

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They were bought souls sent and inherited, but they themselves did not buy, sell, contract and inherent. Slaves inhabit their masters agenda. They lived through their masters agendas and lives during a time of their enslavement. The subject and subjective quality of their lives is overtaken by their existence as such, slaves are often on notice. It is hard to find details about their lives. They are described in the passive voice as having the characteristics of object. There are many lawsuits that involved slaves. The law books are full of them. They took place over the heads of slaves between free persons. Slaves did not sue. I wrote a book about 300 who did. And pardon me. And surprisingly, the majority won. This species of lawsuit is rare, indeed. In breed of cases and freedom cases before dred scott, the slave was pitted in fierce opposition to his or her master. What was a freedom suit . How did a slave get a lawyer . How did a slave get to court . Under the procedure set out by a missouri statute, the slave began a lawsuit by orally telling his case, his life story, to a clerk or a justice of the peace. The affidavit told the slaves story and the clerk read the wrote the story down and then the slaves signed with an x. Customary for the literate persons. Four illiterate persons ive arrayed some 300 xes here, which with the signatures of slaves in freedom petitions. The xes made at the bottom were the account of a slaves life and it must be remembered that slaves were forbidden to read or write. So for these individuals, it was probably most probably the very first time they had ever held a pen and they were making an x in defiance of their master to assert their freedom. These cases are the original filings of the trial court level. And so, there are a lot of details. They are authentic accounts you could not find other places about people whom you have never heard of before but will lift fascinating, interesting lives. And the petition read this if sometimes the clerk simply took down the haitian of what the took down the dictation of what the slave had to say. There is a story behind every one of these xes. Behind one x, of course, is dred scott, notorious, the case. Unknown, the man. Behind another x is his wife harriet. But there are others. Many more xes than pictures. This is lucy delaney who signed an x when she was just a child and live to write about it after the civil war. Swansee adams, one of the duncan slaves, which is one of my favorite stories because it is a story in which there is a superb victory for all of the duncan slaves over all of their duncan masters. But behind each of these stories is a family or an individual and, altogether, many of these freedom suits were family affairs. Whether the litigants sued jointly or in succession, a total of 160 persons of the 239 for whom we have records, were in the family, they sued as a family. Consider then some of these xes clustered together as mothers and children and brothers and sisters. There are some litigants for whom we have no legal records at all, but of these 153 were women and 126 were men. Most of the petitioners faced based their claim on the fact they were taken to a place where slavery was banned. Here are some other bases as the book explains, but the primary centerpiece collection here are slaves, who by living and working in free territory, not as a runaway but with ones masters consent could be in a position to retain their freedom by going to court. Read deem their freedom by going to court. The bondage of the slave was broken by living and residing in free territory. Crossing the boundary with ones master and remaining there, made the bondsman free. The rule was that simple. These cases were the centerpiece of st. Louis freedoms is in the freedom suits and in the cases were fomented through westward migration and national expansion. The role of freedom by residents, living on free soil was essentially derived from migration. And in these cases, from westward migration of owners with their slaves. In these cases, the petitioners directly opposed their masters wishes. They petitioned the court to override those wishes because for some time in the course of western migration, that person had lived on free soil. These cases were truly transformational. Most slaves were brought west by floating with the current down the ohio river. The northern shore was free. And missouris longest border was with a free state illinois. This border had to be passed by or passed through in getting west. St. Louis was as a marketplace for the west. St. Louis was the depot for most westwood immigrants. It was the place to change steamboats whether you are going north, south, or whether you are going further west on the missouri river. And disputes brewing elsewhere were funneled into st. Louis by gravitating to the transportation hub. A steady stream of petitioners satisfy the criteria for freedom by having lived on free soil before arriving in st. Louis in a slave state. St. Louis was the natural cashman area for slaves who had experienced a mixed pattern of residence in the course of migrating west. St. Louis was the perfect storm. The western labor market needed slaves. St. Louis found slaves were brought down the ohio river principally to tame the west. And they were needed estimate as the mastic laborers in as domestic laborers in order to advance the prophecies of settlements faster than could be done by the doityourself yeoman farmers and merchants. Slaves occupied a slightly different role in the west than they did in the south. First, the slave men were needed as the muscle to move the cargo to supply the west and to provide for western expansion. Second, in a few limited areas particularly where they were lead and salt deposits, slave men were set to work in mining. These were jobs that free men did not want to do and you could not find large numbers of free men to do these jobs. Hired labor was available only at a premium, so slaves were imported. And third, slave men and women were brought into the antebellum frontier as labor to provide the basic needs of sustenance for things that could not be bought in the market for jobs, tasks that could not be hired. Slaves were available for settlement and lands were available. There was a lot of land in great supply. You could buy a farm for a far less amount than the cost of a slave. Slaves were set to work building cabins, fences, stills, chopping wood, making fires, feeding and watering people and animals, cooking, laundering, and where there were travelers, providing for those travelers. In remote areas, slaves provided the labor of basic household sustenance so that that community could gain on the equation of their survival. Who could build the state, attend a court, found the school, build a library, or form a legislature if all hands were needed simply to maintain survival . Only when some household members were free from the tasks of maintaining survival could the community built the infrastructure of roads, governments, and institutions on which to advance. Work done by slaves permitted the settlement to advance faster than the settlements could have done without them. The goal of freedom in these cases was always same freedom was the ability to go and do and serve from ever one wished. Who everyone wished. And just as important, to refuse to obey others who had no legitimate claim to them at all. And also, the freedom to remain in place if they wished, not to have to run in to keep running. These cases highlight also freedoms opposite the power of enslavement that can be exercised without any accountability whatsoever. The litigants entered the courts in different ways, and they pay different prices for winning their freedom. The price that freedom promised to them by law was surprisingly high for many of these litigants. I wrote the stories by looking at the xes and reading backward. Reading the accounts, the petitions, the slaves had given for themselves. Had provided in the elements necessary for the lawsuit to establish their freedom. And then constructing the world around them. Could i verify that they had, in fact, lived in this particular place in illinois for three or four months . Surprisingly in many instances , i could. I checked sentences, tax censuses, everything available in order to map the world in which the slaves traveled in order to find the story behind these xes. Each of these chapters is a different short story. And the slaves subject life is added center with a Redemption Song, the transformative moment. I would like to tell you about just a few of the stories. One is peter and his wife queen. Peters case is the very earliest case to be decided under the northwest ordinance determining slaves to be free. This is decided before 1800. In an area that is now illinois sorry, indiana. Vincenze, indiana. The story was hidden in the papers of a private collector. This story had never been told before. And it is also the only story occurring in the book that takes place in a free jurisdiction. Peter and his wife queen are suing for their freedom in indiana. It should have been an easy case. Peters story demonstrates the difficulty of establishing ones freedom in a relatively unsettled portion of the United States territory. Peter and his wife set off from kentucky for freelance, for free for free land, for free soil. But two persons traveling alone and camping beside the falls of the wabash river were quickly noticed by Indian Tribes who occupied the area. We do not know which tribes captured peter and queen, but they were taken captive and held for several days. And then they were taken to vincenze, but they were sold as slaves. The indians got two rifles and some ammunition and peter knew exactly the price of his head. Peter is living in free territory, he and his wife are sold to a man. And they basically stay with him for the winter because there is no place else for them to go. They had to wait until spring, until the very first judge came to the territory for the very first time before they had anyone to appeal to. And peter wasted no time. He approached the judge on the very day that judge turner arrived. Judge turner quickly saw that peter deserved a habeas corpus and should be freed from his master and peter was entitled to some money for his treatment. But he allowed peter and queen to go back to the punitive master, mr. Vanderberg. And that is where conspiracy began. Peters story is the story of a perfect conspiracy. It is almost the blueprint for one. How you separate one slave from another. How you deceive them, how you send them off on an errant only to be taken captive. And what was the objective . The objective was to keep him away from the judge. Well, peter is later freed. The story is a dramatic one. But there is one further note. Peter was actually a soldier in the revolutionary war. I found his veterans pension. The two men who kidnapped and tormented him are far better known because they have counties named after them in indiana. Jean marie was born in illinois. Sometimes called g. Mary depending on whether youre pronouncing it in the french he that he grew up in or in english, which was customary in st. Louis. He was born to a woman who was enslaved by the french and had been brought into the area before it was even deemed to be american territory. Jean marie fought for his freedom and the freedom of his wife and his two children. He was kidnapped twice and shipped to new orleans twice and manacles for ale. In manacles for sale. And twice he beat them back, escaped and sued first freedom. The first time the suit for his the first time he sued for his freedom he sued in st. , louis, appealing all the way to the Missouri Supreme Court. I was able to find that on that day the Missouri Supreme Court ruled in his favor, he had a party. I know that because people who lost try to bring an action for Disorderly Conduct for him for creating such a ruckus. That was not the end. He was kidnapped one more time and this time sent back to new orleans. There he filed suit again and the Louisiana Court of killing appealing all away to the louisiana Supreme Court. And jean marie and a family ended their lives and freedom in st. Louis. Lydia titus established her freedom very early in illinois. She went on to marry a Friedman Mary a free man and they purchased 160 acres, they raise livestock. They had a family. They raised their children. And at one point, her husband died. Several years after that, on one fateful night, heirs of her former master, a generation later appeared at her door and under the cover of darkness, kidnapped her children and grandchildren. With them was illinois secretary of state who is acting as their lawyer. The secretary of state was a large man, very imposing, and he said that was doing this for the law and his clients. He also wielded a gun and he made lydia lie facedown on the floor where her children and grandchildren were taken off and in a wagon. Grandmother lydia was not going to allow that to stop her. The next morning, she was at court before court open filing of the to get the return. The filing of freedom suit to get the return. These cases are full of paradoxes, so when the sheriff found lydias children in the kidnappers on the road south, he arrested them both. The kidnappers. Because they had kidnapped lydias children. Lydias children for their own safekeeping and both parties were held in the same jail. Lydia frees her children and her grandchildren but at some cost. Two of her children do not survive the ordeal. They die in the cold jail. And at the very end, the homestead that she had built up with her husband had to be sold to pay her lawyer. David shipmans story is far more uplifting and he was a kentucky mill owner who was falling into debt and he knew his creditors were coming to seize the slave family if they could. He wanted them to take the mill. Take the livestock. And so, in order to free them from the prospect of being captured and sold at auction, he took them first to indiana and later to a Quaker Settlement in illinois and he gave them their freedom papers. There was enough money left behind for his creditors. But his creditors wanted the slaves because remember, a slave was more valuable than a farm. So they went after the slaves, kidnapping them from this Quaker Settlement near. Peoria. Undercover, in the dead of night, and a team of quakers set off after them into a canoe. The fracas ended up in st. Louis with a freedom suit. Filed by the family. Eventually, everyone became free. They all inherited the property that David Shipman had bought for them. Leah charleville lived a double life. She was something of a gangster. She was playing off two black men at the same time. One her husband, and the other a handsome, dapper barber. As she was running a boarding house, she was also the head of a gang of riverboat these that lived at her boarding house. She importuned wealthy men finding out how much money they had and sent the thieves to get their money, to steal their chests. This went on for a long time. She was clever about this because she was always in church proclaiming her love for jesus on exactly the moment the thieves were grabbing the goods. She had an alibi and she made a point to sit near the front so she would be seen. Now, leah placed children and the ministers home. And over the course of her life, she went to court not because her freedom was uncertain but in order to leverage someone who had threatened her livelihood. Light skinned eliza tyler was deceived in one of the worst possible ways. She lived with an africanamerican man as a commonlaw wife in illinois. And one day, a slave trader offered her commonlaw husband money to sell her to a brothel in new orleans. She was lightskinned, and so she could bring a higher price. She was deceived it into boarding a steamboat. By the time she got to st. Louis, she figured out what was going on and quickly made her way to court before she could be hustled off to the second steamboat. Hector was given papers by her master and he moved to new york. He did not need a slave. She lived independently in st. Louis among a community of free blacks. One day, he changed his mind and traveled to st. Louis and tried to sell her and his own child into slavery. She filed a freedom suit and was free. But one of my favorite stories is the story of the duncan family. The Duncan Brothers, black and white brothers. Imagine that when Jessie Duncan died, his nine black slaves were divided in the will among his white sons. They all share the last name duncan. Each of the white Duncan Brothers inherited a different black slaves and the white Duncan Brothers were quite wild young men. Each one had a different price. A different device vice. One was subject to alcohol. One to gambling. None of them were really womanizers. The one who got married left his wife after he had six children with her and went off to join the rest of the brothers. They drank a lot, they looked for the rich quick schemes, but basically they did no work and lived off slaves. They supported themselves by living off slaves. There was a sandbar in the middle of the mississippi river. They could smuggle their slaves from one place to the other backandforth, up and down the river. Mining in lead, mining in salt. Working wherever they could assign them, but for the next 30 years, one after another of the black duncan slaves establishes freedom and worked to get the other out. Person after person, purchase, lawsuit, escape, lawsuit escape, kidnapped, lawsuit escape. At the end of 30 years, the nine black duncan slaves, some of whom are brothers, had become the most upstanding leading established black men of the community of st. Louis. They had founded the church, started businesses, married and raise families of their own. While the white Duncan Brothers lived out their wastrel lives and one after another died in poverty. In perhaps the perfect irony and poetic justice at the very end the black Duncan Brothers bought the remnants of inheritance that were given to their previous masters. Well, i called the book Redemption Songs because it is a metaphor for the voices of the subordinated people who have been silent in history. It is redemption because it refers to the persons transformation and status from slave, property of another person to being a legal person an independent person themselves. And it is a song because it follows this course that has a a discourse that has a particular set of conventions that go along with this kind of lawsuit. It is a song sung by the slaves by him or herself. A slave is trained to answer his master and to suit his purposes. Yet, and suing for freedom slave defies that mass. That master. When one sings a Redemption Song, one speaks truth to power. But not the full truth because a slave is not empowered to tell the full truth. Just enough of the truth to be upsetting to the master to make a sound discordant with the legitimacy of that ownership and yet and not to meet the truths necessary in order to establish that redemption. That much and no more. At the crux of these cases is a story i have tried to tell from the petitioners standpoint. It is written from the slaves perspective. These petitions are seeking the slaves own objective which is freedom. Historians of the antebellum america have strained here the muffled voices of the silence population. And slavery itself created that silence, and yet here is a chorus of songs. Each story has a structure. In has a beginning, a middle and an end, the judgment. Their contest the discourse. There is a call and response. There are depositions and witnesses that fill in missing notes. The singer is not alone on the stage. The song can be drowned out by other voices because free persons can sing more freely than slaves. What these cases are unlike in other songs is that these are not cases of rescue or mercy or grace. These are cases of entitlement. And so the voice has to be skilled. And it has to speak more carefully. There is a spirit to some of the songs conserving the political economy of the resistance it represents. Each Redemption Song ends by fading off into the quiet of private life. These lawsuits are dramatic and transformative. Just like songs. Thank you very much. [applause] i would be delighted to respond to any questions or comments and i have been advised to tell people to go to one of the other of the microphones because it is necessary for the recording. Thank you. Could you address some of the procedural aspects of the cases . Were these pro se . Was there a group within the Legal Community that was sticking up his play gives and a jury trial for judge trials . Dr. Vandervelde very good question. Thank you for asking. There was a statute in missouri that appointed a lawyer. There was no cause lawyering i could find at this time. So the lawyer would be somebody sitting in the back of the courtroom who was going to be hearing another case who had some spare time and the judge would just appoint them. In the context of these cases, the fact the lawyer was appointed at all is amazing because in most procedural cases, to bring a case in propera means you only get the fees waived. Here are individuals were appointed lawyers. The cases are tried as often to juries as they were two judges. The juries were all white all men, and surprisingly more than 100 times they ruled for the slaves. This is a difficult question. In the legal arena, it is more historical and psychological. After your research and writing where you able to draw any conclusions as to the psychology of White America at this time . Dr. Vandervelde yes. I hope that im responding to your question, tell me if i am not. With 300 cases, you have a of cases to compare. This is a lot of paper, and a lot of individuals, a lot of minutes of time going into these lawsuits. Documenting these lives. The most interesting psychological fact that i discovered, that i learned from this, was about the fact that none of these people filed lawsuits impulsively. They knew what they were doing. They took their risk at a particular time. They thought about it. Often they had a claim of freedom long before they actually filed suit. They needed some further trigger meaning that staying in place would be that much more uncomfortable than going through the process of bringing suit. They knew they brought suit they might end up in jail, as lydias children were pretty jail lydias children were put in jail, for safekeeping for several months. The filing of the suits were not done impulsively recklessly. The individuals had to calculate the strategies of survival with the resources they had. That is the psychology i found most interesting. Dr. Vandervelde my question went to the psychology of White America to the other side of the lawsuit. Dr. Vandervelde the interesting thing about these lawsuits and the statute is that one would think it would not have even happened at all. I did a lot of research into why it is that the statute ever got past in the first place. Got passed in the first place. It was passed because missouri entered the union as part of the missouri compromise. Missouri enacted this statute because it was a sorting out. Theyd come into the union as a slave state as maine had come in as a free state. They needed to maintain the balance and sort out the individuals who came to missouri. There was no abolitionists in evidence, because preaching abolition was illegal. It was criminal during the time of these lawsuits. Filing a lawsuit today is complicated enough. I am curious what you found in regards to people becoming educated. On your screen are xs. It would be difficult to have faith in someone saying they would lead you through a lawsuit. Dr. Vandervelde i think that this had to be true the networks in the freed black community. There was no one who was leading the charge. Each individual stepped forward. That was surprising to me. I thought i would see a movement. I did not see a movement. By understanding is that through wordofmouth, the fact of this very simple rule meant that if you had resided in free territory you would be free. With that kind of them for that was the kind of information that would spread through the community. There were always six or seven of these cases going on. People could watch these cases occurring and know if freedom was announced. One would expect that within the city of st. Louis, that information would spread. And spread like wildfire. Given the number of court cases, some 300 in favor of the slaves for freedom, how unique is dred scott that rolled do the opposite direction . That ruled in the opposite direction . And the impact it had. It seems like the missouri law was going in this direction which is the antithesis of what dred scott did. Can you comment on that . Dr. Vandervelde if you look at dred scott in isolation you think it is protectable. That a slave would lose. Dred scott was a game changer. Dred scott ended the freedom suits, which is why the book is called suing for freedom before dred scott. Dred scott silenced the freedom suits in the face of a remarkable amount of legal activity that had gone the other way for three decades. My question is related to that. With so many lawsuits being filed for freedom did you find any common spread about why only dread scott made it to the Supreme Court and none of the other cases did . Dr. Vandervelde i covered that in my first. I came to the conclusion the scott family was unbelievably unlucky. It is not just one incidents. It is the fact that if they had been able to go to trial the very first time they wouldve been free because all the other cases that year were free. Their lawyer had just left town. Just before trial, they were assigned a lawyer who did not know what he was doing and messed up. That was the first time they went to trial. Then, they were delayed by a fire that burned out 16 square blocks of the town, and cholera. No one could be called to jury because no one would show up. People were dying in the largest epidemic that st. Louis had ever had. For a full year there were no trials. During the course of this long 11 your trial 11 year trial the nature of missouri changed. The three new judges took the bench. And it is only a threejudge bench, so that is everybody. Those three judges decided against the notion of freedom by residents, the first game changer. Now, dred scott was an aged slave with tuberculosis and probably not worth a whole lot at the time he filed suit, but what was at stake was his wife and daughters. They were young, vital, and healthy, and harriet filed suit as well. If dred scott had a separate case than harriet, and harriets had gone forward, instead of putting the wives under the husbands, and harriet had a stronger case and the case would not have gone forward and dred scott could have bought his freedom for very little money. The circumstances were circumstances of extreme misfortune. It is a misfortune that we all share. Another question. About a week ago there was an author from columbia who had a book called gateway to freedom. I found it amazing that he mentions how the principle was written into the constitution. That you could not take slaves if you took one into a free state it was the burden on the state to help the individual retrieve him. The freedom principle, that sent an individual running after your property. I found it amazing. He talks about how to delegates from South Carolina voted into the constitution. He implies they knew what he got away with. It set up the paradigm of it changing the common law through the constitutional law, giving rights where there were no rights and can you comment on that . I would appreciate your insights on the constitutional issue. Dr. Vandervelde happy to. On january 29 of this year the 150th anniversary of the 13th amendment occurred. It is the 13th amendment that reversed that language in the constitution. I dont know why we dont expunge it from the constitution. We dont do that, it is still printed in the constitution. The fugitive slaves clause is still in the constitution. It is intricately tied to the dred scott case. The 13th, 14th and 15th amendments used the language of the dred scott case and they repudiate the language of justice tony and the dred scott case in finding the link which necessary for those three constitutional amendments. Thanks again for your talk. I was curious if you could mention the kidnappers. They had counties named after them. I was wondering if the current residence knew about the history and if there were recent exams in hollywood to give attention to the Untold Stories like 12 years a slave. Dr. Vandervelde thank you for your comment. I agree and appreciate that insight. I am quite certain that the people of indiana dont know that these two counties were named after individuals who perpetrated this kind of torment and kidnapping. The reason i can be fairly certain is that until i found these papers no one knew of them. The papers were in a private collection. They had not seen the light of day. They are now in a collection of the William English papers at the university of chicago, but no one has linked them up with the two individuals with counties named after them. It would please me to no end if instead the names of the counties would be changed, but i dont think the people of indiana know that, yet. Thank you, very much. Im waiting for my host. I really appreciate you coming i appreciate your interest, and i hope that you can see in the stories, stories of heroes who we have overlooked, and stories of individuals who we should really honor. Thanks, very much. [applause] you are watching American History tv. All weekend, every weekend on cspan3. To join the conversation like us on facebook at cspan history. Next on American History tv all their pam perry talks about president s eisenhower president eisenhowers use of public relations. He set the precedent for allowing television to cover press conferences. She cites examples of his savvy leading from his world war ii days through the end of his life as a private citizen living in gettysburg pennsylvania. Posted by the Dwight Eisenhower museum and library, this program is 40 minutes. Dr. Parry good evening. I have to start tonight by thanking some folks. I have always understood it took a village to raise a child, but until the last five years i did not know that it took a village to raise a scholar. I feel like the Eisenhower Library helped me grow up. I wrote a letter to the editor at the abilene newspaper when my book was coming out thanking the wonderful citizens of abilene, kansas and the staff at the Eisenhower Library. I think i said something a little tongueincheek, that it is not disney but the Eisenhower Library that is the greatest place on earth. That i believe that, particularly for researchers. I want to tank i want to thank tim

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