Transcripts For CSPAN2 Today In Washington 20110713

department of energy, the epa, the department of treasury, whatever may be, let's empower the inspector generals in the gao when they make recommendations that they have the same authority as ipab. do you think that's a good idea? >> no. >> why? >> ultimately, i believe that the congress has the responsibility to make these policy decisions, and having made them with the executive branch who has responsibility for implementing them, congress has to turn to the oversight. that's the standard of practice in the united states and by and large has been successful, and it's the practice i suggest you adhere to. .. >> the committee on homeland security subcommittee transportation security will come to order. the committee is meeting today to hear a different industry perspectives on authorizing the transportation security administration for fiscal years 2012 and 2013. i would like to welcome everyone here to this hearing and thank all of our witnesses for their patients. i apologize for us been called for votes when the hearing was supposed to start, but it is what it is. we look forward to your testimony and greatly appreciate the time and effort you put into your opening statements preparing for the hearing and i know the q&a is going to be worthwhile. the committee plans to develop a tsa authorization bill which is intended to enhance the streamline tsa transportation security initiative. a few weeks ago administrator pistol testified in front of the subcommittee to discuss his priorities, the purpose of today's hearing is to hear different industry perspectives on the ongoing challenges and securing transportation systems and what improvements could be made through the legislative process. tsa plays a critical role keeping america's travelers say, however, it is hinged on the cooperation for the public and private sector partners. we look forward to continuing this conversation hearing from some of the reverse course of public and private sector partners that tsa relies on to fulfill its mission of protecting our nation's transportation systems. as an example of the important collaboration between tsa and its partners has been the response to the human air cargo intact. since october, tsa is in working with private industry to develop and implement it short-term security directive to address certain vulnerabilities to read while challenges remain the open lines of communication between tsa and private industry is commendable and should be recognized as such. today's hearing is an opportunity as the partners including the rail, trucking, mass transit, pipeline and the aviation sector to voice their insight how tsa authorization bill can improve overall transportation security, enhance the effectiveness of the tsa transportation security initiative and address any efficiencies that still may exist. i look for to and open dialogue that will allow the industry partners that interact with tsa on a daily basis the ability to inform the committee and its continued development of the tsa authorization bill. the committee considered an authorization bill last congress as h.r. 2200 midranking member sheila jackson lee's leadership and i look forward to continuing to work with her on a bipartisan basis for this effort. with that, i now recognize the famous ranking member, sheila jackson lee for five minutes for her opening statement. >> mr. chairman, thank you. and again, let me thank you for the cooperation that we have promoted in this issue on this issue of transportation security to the witnesses here thank you very much for your presence and take note of the fact of members' schedules that were rescued from somewhat because the long list of votes and that may delay some members or cause them to have some additional scheduling concerns so let me thank you again. the chairman is right, we listen to administrator pistol and now the stakeholders the workers professionals, pilots and flight attendants are just a few of the many professionals who find it within their job description the response of the of securing the nation's railroads, skies and pipelines against terrorist attacks including chiefs of metropolitan rail systems. all as a front line. when we talk about security, we are talking about people and the critical question for me is our transportation workers trained and equipped to recognize and mitigate potential terrorist act. let me say just as i did in the first hearing on tsa authorization last month with administrator pistol we simply cannot forget the lessons learned from the past as we look to preventing future terrorist attacks. i think the chairman and i agree that there are many tools we happen to be unified in our support on canines. it's not present the table today. so we won't ask any questions, but what we are saying is that we need tools, professional persons used, persons who are professional who will use finding those threats that will impact the american people. as the congress and a nation we have taken many steps to shore up the former buddies and protocols and process sees that enabled the hijack of to penetrate the system and destroy thousands of lives. we've made great progress. we decided to move we try system that barry's security companies operating checkpoint security to its allies to system of professional screeners who can quickly adapt to threats based upon the latest intelligence to really implement mandatory screening for the czechs and the carter one passenger planes and we directed that doors be strengthened and we deployed more to secure the aircraft cabin on high-risk flights. frankly i am a supporter of increasing those air marshals on a flight internationally. however, mr. chairman, our work is not done it to the witnesses at work is not done. this year there's been five incidents where flight attendants have had to subdue a passenger to the security aircraft cabin and request to submit a list of the incidents for the record, mr. chairman. while these were not terrorist incidents that reveal how when portend a leader of security represent in fact all of us who fly to work as i tell my elementary school children as i visit our schools when i tell them that life like to work depend upon those frontline armored but not armored flight attendants among with our pilots once those stores are closed and the last congress when we passed a bipartisan authorization bill we've recognized this and include provisions to include the oversight of the air carrier's security programs and directed that the work with the industry to implement accessible advanced security training for flight attendants. let me be very clear the airlines need to pay for flight attendant security training and it needs to be part of their compensation package on the airline package please recognize the hands of passengers, you have the passengers in your hands. i continue to support these concepts and continue not to understand our position to improving aircraft cabin security as we reinforce the pile that door and provided for pilots to carry on and train. let us do something for flight attendants. but the small investment of time and training we can take the next step in the security by ensuring the crew is trained to meet today's threats and let's not forget that when we are in the air when there are no air marshals on board the flight crew that is the last line of defense. let's let them work together, air marshals and flight attendants and a bold public force. i think ten years later let us not forget the lessons learned as we look to addressing the evolving terrorist threats we in fact even have a discussion on the training on september 12th, 2001. how many lives are saved when the passengers on united flight 93 although of course they lost their lives sending it into the crowd in pennsylvania 585 miles per hour sacrificing themselves instead of allowing the terrorists to kill thousands more. i simply say let us not be penny wise and foolish when it comes to security. regarding mass transit and pipeline security, i have introduced h.r. 1900, the service transportation mess security act, which serves as transportation inspection office and service transportation advisory committee for stakeholder consultation on securing programs. i look forward to working with the chairman and his leadership on this issue, and i might say that h.r. 1900 also increases the number of canine teams for the transit security purposes but wherever i go, canines, but as a viable tool to be utilized in the security. let's be creative, let's move forward in training flight attendants and professionalism and using the tools that are helpful. given the threat to the transportation system as evidenced by information made public solving the demise of bin laden, we simply must bring this pay transportation efforts in line with aviation and i urge the ready to consider the bill and be part of the overall tsa authorization. finally mr. chairman i request a field hearing on the pipeline security and i know that we are in discussion and i think you very much for your interest and i hope that we will have one in washington as well. this is a serious matter, and it is reflected by recent incidents in montana. i believe we can work together on issues of transportation plan security of aviation and rail in all aspects it's important year from the stockholders who are here and again let me thank you very much for being part of american security and let's overcome some of our disagreements and follow-through on behalf of the american people securing the homeland. i yield back. thank you very much. >> i thank the gentlelady and would like to remind other members of the of opening statements they may be suspended for the record and at this time i would like to without objection as unanimous consent to answer to this statement from the association aircraft owners and pilots is a seizure in the air line pilots association, the national air carriers association chamber of commerce to the united states of america. during no objection, so ordered. we are pleased to have several distinguished witnesses -- >> if i may have a unanimous consent i would ask unanimous consent the gentleman from michigan in the full committee mr. clark be authorized for the purpose of the witnesses during the hearing today. >> so ordered. >> we have several distinguished witnesses before us and let me remind the witnesses that their entire statements will be submitted for the record. so, if you would like to summarize those we will get through the panel as quickly as possible and get to the questions. first, we have mr. tom farmer, currently serves as the assistant vp of the association of american railroads. i've enjoyed working with him during my team here and i'm proud to have you here. the floor is yours, mr. former. >> thank you very much. mr. chairman, ranking member jackson lee, members of the committee, on behalf of the association of american railroads, thank you very much for this opportunity to appear today. at the outset, i must emphasize that nothing is more important ilyse of their employees come safety and security of their employees, of their operations and the communities that the serve. as all of you know, the issue of the security guard attention to the significant attention. and with the reporting and al qaeda in the operation and pakistan ended with the demise of osama bin laden. with the efforts to railroad the target's knott however. indeed the extensive efforts that we as the industry have devoted to enhance since the 9/11 attacks have been promised free much of this reality. following 9/11 connect and on their own initiative, the real words made top-level security task force existing of more than 150 industry experts to conduct a thorough evaluation of risk and security and then network. the focus areas include critical infrastructure, the rail operations, hazardous materials, communications and control systems and military shipments. this effort produced the rail industry's risk analysis and security management plan. it is a comprehensive priority based action the industry developed to deal with new realities. this is adopted by the industry in december of 2001 within three months of the 9/11 attacks and remains the foundation of the efforts today updated on the experience and its usage and changing circumstances with the threat. the plan defines the progressively tighter security of low levels and details the actions be taken at each level and there are more than 50 per minute measures implemented as this plan. in addition, those areas the countermeasures cover focus upon its people, the effectiveness of the procedures and the technology. in addition to the regular exercise conducted with industrywide and by the industry railroads, we test the effectiveness of this plan on realistic terms of the provincial response scenarios. a particular area of what we do is the intelligence security information. they maintain for this purpose the transportation information sharing analysis center and the network. and these work in concert which provide effective means for timely notification of security threats come incidents and other emergencies to assure daily security awareness and expand the understanding of terrorist attacks. one of the key initiatives in these two bodies and our version of the american public association a daily brief caught the transit and intelligence awareness daily. this is a very concise overview of the most significant matters of the day in the areas of suspicious activity reporting, terrorism analyst, general security awareness and cybersecurity. the information provided by this can be used by railroads to augment channing awareness briefing for employees and shared with local federal authorities and partnerships. the top priority working closely with tsa and evans to the effectiveness and security and i would like to highlight this year the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks the time is right for a thorough review of the security strategy programs how can we be more effective in a sustainable way? the object is agreed they set the framework for how we measure the effectiveness of our policies, programs and initiatives. tsa freed real division was credit to me for this purpose next month. second, the information sharing between the railroad and the government agencies we work with the provide a wealth of security information every day to the various government entities but we give to bill bac that helps perform the security mission effectively. we have submitted to the tsa and the dhs intelligence requirements to close the gap. one that is focused on, looking for in-depth analysis of the prepared reactions terrorists take and successful attacks they tried and failed attempt. looking for insight and the adversary how they function to enable better informed effective security measures. and the believe security and efficiency if there were more standardization and the tsa inspection activities especially the interpretation of the security regulations and a month field offices and from the parties set by the tsa headquarters are causing adverse but unavoidable impact on operations. we believe the tsa regional inspectors have been appointed on amtrak to offer a viable and sustainable solution to these concerns. thank you for this privilege and i'm very happy to answer any questions you may have. >> thank you mr. fervor for your testimony. we appreciate you being here and tell your time is valuable. i appreciate that. our second witness is martin rojas of the american trucking is this edition of the chair recognizes mr. rojas for your opening statement. >> thank you very much. chairman rogers, ranking member jackson lee and members of the committee, think for the abridged and to testify on the authorization of the transportation security administration. the trucking industry is a federal component of the economy earning more than 80% of domestic freight revenue. it's important to note the trucking industry is comprised primarily of small businesses with 97% of trucking companies operating 20 trucks or less. in addition, 18% of all u.s. communities depend solely on the trucks to deliver supply the commodities. because the trucking is a link in the economy that is critical to the government requirements, improved security without curtailing the ability to deliver america's great efficiently and safely as the committee is aware of the terrorist attacks of 9/11, government agencies have been planted various security initiatives impacting the transportation sector as a whole. in today's multi modal transportation system, this means a requirement on one specific mode cannon directly impact the operation. the trucking industry consider the trucks and commercial drivers operate in maritime facilities airports facilities across the nation's international borders. to mitigate the risks to future terrorist attacks and ensure both the national security and economic security with the dissent stand by the tsa assistant secretary john pistol. in early june mr. kissell testified that we must reduce the vulnerabilities in the transportation system by establishing risk-based purchase and by using sound intelligence and making decisions and carrying out our operations. the trucking industry favors such an approach. as this committee considers how to improve the security of the country's transportation system, we suggest the following for observations. first, mandating more security requirements does not necessarily improve the security of the transportation system. as an industry already heavily regulated by safety and security requirements, more regulations will only increase the compliance on trucking companies rather be in improve security. for multiple back rent checks and security plans to overlapping security training and in routt security, the trucking industry has always been saturated by such requirements. second, 80 day encourages improving government industry information sharing. trucking companies have embraced several initiatives by law enforcement agencies and the intelligence community to exchange and better understand the mutual information needs to improve the nation's security. today, members are involved in the various programs including the director of national intelligence, the fbi's infrared guerard program and its domestic security alliance council was always the homeland security information network. we believe that enhancing information sharing efforts at the federal, state inlet local level will improve the security posture of the trucking industry. third, government agencies must continue to improve coordination of the respect of security regulations. ata recognizes higher risk operating environments must address the specific risks associated with such operations. because of that during environments in which the trucking companies operate, applying a one-size-fits-all approach isn't practical for the trucking industry. however, federal agencies must improve interagency coordination to establish mechanisms that recognize the basic common requirements or protocols and other security programs. complying with multiple security requirements by various government agencies is simply not a suitable -- simply not suitable for motor carriers. last week, the ata believes that the leader roel must be finalized and the program's application process must be improved. tsa and the u.s. coast guard must finalize the tort rules and ensure the prophecies and the system to prevent counterfeiting and used the false identity information to obtain. ata still believes that it should function as a single security threat assessment and credential that satisfies the background check requirements of the multiple programs. in this regard i want to think again this committee, this committee's bipartisan leadership in addressing the multiplicity of backend checks and credentials. ata is a strong supporter of the modern security act of 2011 and we look forward to this bill becoming law. on behalf of ata and its members i think you for the opportunity to share some comments and i look forward to answering your questions. >> thank you. thank you for that remark. the fact is the issue was brought to the attention of the committee by your association, so i really appreciate the fact you gave us the heads up and we were able to do something about it. our next witness is ms. wanda speed and she's an alumni of the steam university which i graduated. she's just younger than i am. [laughter] but it's good to have her here. we look for two years in her testimony and i will tell you that a 90 member, you are going to hear about them after all the of the atlanta transit system -- >> [inaudible] >> good afternoon, mr. chairman and distinguished members and thank you for the opportunity to provide my testimony on behalf of the metropolitan atlanta transit authority in atlanta georgia and their representatives of the public transportation throughout the nation. my name is ipt dunham and i'm pleased to serve as the police chief and manager for the police services and emergency management to the ninth largest public transportation system. i speak to view as someone with more than 24 years of police experience and a mass transit environment and some who collaborates with in the industry as a member of the american public transit association of the committee on public safety and i truly appreciate your interest and improving the public transportation security across the country today the grant program as a federal funding program remains a significant resource and implementation and countermeasures against the terrorist threat. since 2003 we have received approximately $31 million in federal funding and support of the various target security initiatives. with the support of this investment, we've been able to develop or expand key programs such as the cctv camera system as well as acquiring 15 bomb detection k-9 teams including three vapor k-9 teams that can actually detect the presence of orders related to an explosive device. i would like to spend a few minutes to discuss the team's at marta. i'm pleased to report its benet for front and the use of this unique application and the detection of explosive devices we were the first transit agency to be part of the canine detection program for the tsa. we were asked to persecute and a pilot program for the first of a great canine program in the country. this program was spearheaded university protection training center in auburn alabama. our was the first graduate of this impressive training program. although it was retired last year we recognize her today for her six years of dedicated service to the department. while there has been a great degree and other transit systems across the country, there's still much work that is required to continue to keep the nation safe. much of the efforts and focus on this investment today has been in the area of infrastructure and target hardening. many systems are experiencing the need for additional funding and a broad funding by declines to deliver the existing capital investment with operational support and increasing the limitation on the operational funding from 10% to 20% and allowing personnel costs where the need can be strong we substantiated will be of great support to the transit systems. additionally, recent intelligence information has substantiated what we have known for some time that the transit systems remain highly vulnerable for potential tax. to that point, is highly recommended that the congress reauthorize the transit security grant program at levels similar to those authorized under the 9/11 commission act. finally, i cannot emphasize how important and critical the financial support provided by congress through the security grant program has been to local and regional efforts across the country and keeping our customers save as we prepare of the regional level to ensure we are responsive and prepared for you and emerging 21st century security threats in support of congress and you're continued commitment to keep in stride with the financial needs of vital to our success. i will entertain any questions. thank you for your time. >> thank you. our fourth witness mr. reese for the pipeline will be testifying on behalf of the association of the oil pipelines and this recognizes mr. reese for his testimony. >> yes we have an asset going to the five states. after an chairman rogers, ranking member jackson lee and members of the subcommittee. i am the corporate safety and security leader of the colonial pipeline and i appreciate the opportunity to appear on the association of oil pipelines, the american petroleum institute is the chairman of the coordinating council of america relies on in america for the month to 70,000 miles of liquid pipeline to move the energy that fuels the nation's economy and supports the quality-of-life. one of them is colonial. colonial headquarters and a plant in georgia where we operate a system consisted of 5,500 miles of pipeline. when measured by the transport and colonial is the largest pipeline in the world. colonial in the pipeline industry are committed to delivering the material safely and efficiently. we are also committed to keeping the facility secure. with regard to the security of the pipeline system, private and public sector share the same goal protecting from a tax so we can avoid loss of life, disruption of service, damaged assets of injury to employees or the public or harms the environment and the national economy. one key element to effectively manage the risk is what tsa properly called a partnership between private and public sectors. the success of this and any part purchase dependent on communication and collaboration. in my view, the most effective security program will be one that is not static, but rather constantly adjusting to ensure we are staying ahead of a sophisticated adversary. regular interaction through a strong industry partnership provides this flexibility. tsa pipeline security division regularly conducts corporate security reviews of major pipeline operators to assess the security plans and critical facility inspections of the most sensitive locations in the pipeline industry to focus on implementation of security practices at pipeline facilities. the result of the two have been used to develop security smart practices then shared across the industry. i can personally attest to the fer nature of the review how extensive some of these businesses can be. it also issued pipeline security guidelines which are specific federal recommendations for the security practices throughout the pipeline industry. these were built on previous guidance and requirements and the commission act to rid our industry worked with tsa in the development of the guide lines. rarely the industry and regulators agree on every point or proposal the very nature of detective parker shook the city a little compromise as mentioned a working relationship however we believe there are opportunities for the communications elsewhere within the dhs and for the gasoline storage facilities in the program and that conclusion of the process that's gone on for a very long time contrary to the initial indications from the dhs, the regulations were expanded to include operators of gasoline storage facilities by the corporation of the mixtures provision lead in the regulatory development process to read comments were filed against were asking the dhs to review the rule making and for over two years the industry has awaited a formal reply. another concern is with credentials. the liquid pipeline industry and others within the oil and natural gas sector support the risk-based security standards of high risk facilities to protect critical infrastructure. we support the credential programs that check personally identifiable information against the terrorist database. we are concerned whether dhs proposal for the personal leisure the program would create significant new had been a string of burdens with little or no security enhancement. rather than creating a redundant program would appear logical for the dhs to leverage the widely accepted utilize program. i want to thank the subcommittee and its members for addressing this issue in the market as h.r. 901 and it's our hope this proposal will be part of the final reauthorization this year. in conclusion, it's been my personal experience that tsa's pipeline security division has assumed a responsible approach of pipeline security working with the industry to identify practical security practices for the pipeline operators in my view this partnership serves the public well. thank you for the opportunity to comment and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you reese and as i pointed out awhile ago the pipeline runs through my district, so i really like it. our third witness is the alternative -- altered legislative director for the transportation union. the chair recognizes mr. risch for members of the committee, on behalf of the -- on the united transportation union i'd like to thank you for the opportunity to address the committee today. due to leave kuwait represent thousands of trends and rail employees. each and every day members of the front line of travel to keep the transportation network secure. members are committed to work with employers and the government to improve the lines of defense against those who wish the nation harm. offer to work with the nation's railroad on the security training and had a positive discussion on possible joint partnerships. a primary concern to the members is the lack of blocks for doors and windows on the locomotive cabs. we believe it should be required all locomotives be quote with locks for the doors and windows to prevent unauthorized entry to the operating compartment. when windows and doors are locked the locomotive cab needs to be air-conditioned certainly in cold weather operating crews will close the windows and doors however in hot weather without air-conditioning operating they're forced to open the doors and windows compromising their personal safety and that of others. currently there is more federal standards equipping the locomotive with air-conditioning or secure locks and doors and windows and we are pleased to see the federal railroad administration is developing regulations that address the issue of air-conditioning but not on the locks and doors would like to clarify in my written statement i did mention a terrible incident happened in the new orleans last year and i've been told by the railroad involved that the callow did have locks in a particular locomotive did have air-conditioning. in regard to the bus the operations on the bus industry we recommend they be secured with sensing, video cameras, security personnel or a combination of all three. minibus yards on offense and many that are do not have blocked the gates. in regards to the security training for employees, we need to adequately train hundreds of thousands of transit and workers across america so that they are ready in the event of a terrorist threat or attack. the emergency situation the members of the first on the scene even before the police, firefighters and emergency medical responders and what they do in the first few minutes is crucial to minimizing destruction and loss of life. these and these need to know how to recognize the potential problem their particles follow for reporting to the threats and how to protect themselves and others from harm. the committee worked diligently to address these concerns by including a comprehensive training in the 9/11 commission act that legislation mandate had been all front line transit rail over the bus employees undergo the training exercises receive training on the evacuation procedures and be instruct on the crew and passenger communications and coordination. unfortunately, these mandates are nearly four years overdue. in fact, this administration failed to issue a notice of proposed rulemaking on these essentials training issues. we believe this is unacceptable and further delay on the existing dangers. our work as a locomotive engineer for 40 years on a large freight railroad and in my entire career, my security training consisted of watching a 30 minute video in a cubicle on myself. the video was well done and to report any suspicious activities how to be more aware of my surroundings. however, it wasn't tailored to my job responsibilities, and i didn't learn any specific skills. .. we appreciate the effort to push for meaningful security initiatives. we strongly urge to say to implement training mandated in the 9/11 that to ensure for it when workers are prepared to assist in event of an emergency. thanks again for the opportunity to be here. >> thank you had a thing called the witnesses. i want to follow-up on that point because i met with chief done them before the hearing and she talked about the extensive training that her transit employees undergo. is that automated site that? describe which are training is for your transit security individuals. >> yes, sir. as he spoke earlier, we were talking about the fact that you have to train every employee. i think as we were talking about the airline -- the flight attendants, whoever is going to be the first person they are and so you have to train everyone, not just specialized teams of people, but she have to train everybody and we make sure everyone of our employees are trained on any active shooter. >> is it just videos? >> know, there's flight instruction. it's a layered approach and said there is flight instruction. there's hands-on because i think we learn from hands on this so there's a lot of participation in whatever they training is. and the good thing about it is all the training is grant funded. >> you talk about all you had was a video to watch. do you still see that occurring in any of the transportation they were talking about here today? >> well, ill may represent the bus and rail industry. it varies from railroad to ray road. from best company to the company. it's not uniform. currently there is nothing requiring the length and type of training going on. the federal railroad administration is the top in some legislation on standards, but they only apply to operation or rules and federal regulations see if they don't apply to security training. and through that process the first more comprehensive law. >> if i wanted to visit that because my interaction with the various transportation sectors has led me to believe the training is more today detailed than having people watch video. if that is prevalent, we want to know so we can work to change that fact. i want to go to mr. farmer. he talked in your opening statement about the need for intelligence sharing and you've told me that months ago on a private meeting. are you seeing any improvements? and if so, or even if not, what can we do in the reauthorization that would facilitate better communication to and from tsa to the rail industry? >> sir, we see improvement in their willingness to discuss changes in approach. we have presented our intelligence requirement to a member of tsa office of intelligence committee hs office of infrastructure and we've even had a chance to participate in a stakeholder outreach program at the outset director of national intelligence. but the problem as there is a lot of nodding at the head that it was a good idea, to focus on the preparatory aspects of operations, that there does not seem to be a willingness to make the necessary adjustments and priorities for anyone of those entities, but to take that on. >> that's what i'm asking. is there something in the reauthorization language that would set the framework suit have a higher degree of confidence that necessary back-and-forth of information? >> i think with the authorization i could discuss is less focused on some fundamental priorities. one of the best documents you can read in 1983 and now declassified. it's a page assigned. most of which you see from the federal government and the dozens to hundreds of pages. let's talk about quarter fundamental priorities. in the information sharing, there's a lot of wind shears, but often after the factory told to assist any casualties. or not getting it in our analysis. so what we're looking for is an entity. i think tsa is the best place to do this, to do the amount to become the resource for transportation related security intelligence. dhs has an excellent tool is a diagram that shows the steps of the planning cycle appeared but we've never seen a semi-breakdown in operation against lifecycle and become the ketamine fewer opportunities could have made a difference. in terms of an authorization, setting this a priority for parents and security professionals and railroads, tracking, to understand by knowing that we can know. it happened overseas. with that disruptive plot here. when i witkowski off of what we can know. >> excellent. my tennis up and i look forward to asking her questions. the chair now recognizes the ranking member for any question she may have. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i have so many. i ask you to help me with your answers so that i can ask all of these questions based on some very, very important testimony. the continuing theme i heard this they need training, training and access to information to help us be able to interpret the threat is around us and i thank you for that. i think it's going to be important as we move towards an authorization bill. if i might ask, mr. risch specifically, i have the privilege of representing houston, texas has the motto rather not answer every alliance to residential neighborhoods to near schools and a lot of facilities where people are engrossing and cake icing. some if you could create a training program for this marinade, what types of things that you focus on? me to be vigilant and watch out for twiki in a real opportunity in airport goes to the right people selection can be be taken. i think what you need is a clustered environment, when a structure is very an individual workers cannot and coworkers say canonical cars are routinely story. they have to be very vigilant in those areas. there'll be a host of things that security -- people trained in security know what to look for would be the appropriate lens and not so many vail road data or video to really doesn't understand the potential to. >> so many hands-on training >> correct. >> working with pipelines as millions state of texas. he had an incident that just occurred in montana and the potential for a terrorist threats against pipelines i think it's great. what specifically can we do to add to the security of pipelines, training and otherwise? 's >> i hope that is not an element. that's a great question, man. but ac going on is a lot like what i heard elsewhere if average is so much in such an efficient manner. i'm not necessarily opposed to video as a platform for an training. more importantly is ensuring that the instructors qualified individuals in the training actually understand the mission. i think video can be incorporated in an overall training program. the tsa chooses to just buy it be a target for law enforcement and operators, which affected because interest are slightly different enemies for information are slightly different than they both need the training. they would be dave default the public side of the house, but extended to the private site based on positions, where they are security efforts and so forth. that is helpful. there are also forums in the clearance process that allows people in ministry to have access to classified information in the need to know basis. >> maybe i'll come back to you, the lead me quickly ask and i appreciate that he and fair quickly ask mr. rojas, what would have been to you with the underfunding of the transportation security prayer programs. mr. rojas, could you emphasize the streamlining of twit, making it the single security document on security document on how the nessus security and mr. farmer, could you tell us how we can harmonize tsa's real security standards and expectations with the issues and concerns you have with the american religious is issuing? let me go to the chief first, please. >> yes, ma'am. that's a great question. in the state of georgia, where one of the only transit agencies do not believe any threat funding or in a cramped subsidies from the state of georgia. so grant funding is the only thing we have in order to target partners this time. without the funny movie last susceptible to any kind of terrorist threat. it's very important to us and that's what we really need to continue this program and get more allocations because we have considered it to one agency, which means that if an attack is likely to occur in our city. so it's definitely would need that funding. >> we thank you. mr. rojas. microphone. >> sorry. we believe it can certainly function as an excellent security threat assessment and credential for multiple facilities. as i said my comments, winter so many different kinds of facilities for maritime to railyard and mr. rees explained in his comments does not purposely done so with the time there so many areas we have to gain access to that if each one of these facilities required a separate credential in separate access card in separate background check essentially, we would find ourselves wearing too many credentials and having to undergo too many background checks. so i think we can write a point with a single process and single system and recognized we have to make the process better and tsa is aware of that, too. so we are very supportive of the twit content. >> yes, ma'am. the challenge of real estate because they operate across many states and in particular the class one railroads and amtrak. is that because the tsa inspectors are supervised locally that the priorities they pursue common interpretations they bring to bear can vary significantly from place to place? we've had situations where railroads are taking actions that are seen as compliant press and tsa offices in the field and yet are treated as violations by others. we believe some form of oversight from the headquarters level or through the regional security would be a way to overcome the problem. the last i heard at a meeting with tsa and march in fort worth as it issued 17 investigations alleging potential violations of tsa security regulations. seven of those had to be withdrawn because they simply did not state a meritorious case. it was the letter showed up the railroad, and attacking about fines measured in 10,000 for investigation. throughout the remaining time, not alleged any sort of noncompliance with subsidy security issue at hand and they were letting areas and documentation. the concern again this than the standard theory, you have a situation where 40% of the investigation are kicked out because they're simply not meritorious. or coordination between headquarters with inspection of failing headquarter priorities can bring consistency to a railroad class one freight railroad amtrak and reply in a similar interpretation of evil wherever it operates. >> chairman thank you. on this point, can't imagine not having consistent and start yours, which may righteously sham tries to address well-trained federal inspectors all over america when in fact these rabbits. thank you for your indulgence. >> those chair recognizes mr. cravaack for five minutes. >> real quick question. i understand that in 2008 to 2011 was gone from 175 inspectors to 318 spec is. in your opinion, do you think that is increased security of your system while at the same time he began consistencies were speaking out is because of the rapid deployment of the security force? what is your opinion? >> the rapid increase and now actually over 400 is the most recent statistic that i heard. the rapid increase as the force has caused a departure from office the fundamental premise of the hiring of those inspectors at the outset back in 2005, 2006. it is very much been a focus on hiring people with a real background for a transit background. one of the concerns now is they don't get people in these positions. they don't have extensive real or transit experience or bring to their familiarity with the environment that creates safety concerns us is often railroads are entities orienting inspectors to dangers that the environment. more importantly, lack of familiarity with real generally does create a situation where the source of income distances become more likely, especially if there seems to be a disconnect between what priorities are set up at the headquarters of like if executed in the field. >> mr. rojas, do you feel the same way? >> the issue for us has to do with obviously with a much larger population attract companies out in the field with about 600,000 trucking companies registered with the u.s. department of transportation for interstate commerce in another 500,000 intrastate commerce. so we need to have some level of harmony nation in that area. i think it would be important because we've had some issues where inspect or so, up, some of the viper teams asking truck drivers if they actually have a twit, for example. and for no specific reason. they might not be near a port. so we have some issues in this area and we certainly look forward to working with tsa and the committee on this issue. >> c. probably take the training of inspectors themselves is the issue. >> welcome the problem is detailed with different law enforcement agencies. if you think about the commercial inspectors or state vehicles. we obviously deal with different -- different highway agencies. there is because there in dealing with too many law enforcement people that there is a sense that it's a bit overwhelming for the drivers and how many my law-enforcement agencies have to deal with. so if one more inspector asking for yet another credential for training component or something like that gets a little overwhelming for the truck drivers. >> why they get their free time. >> that's correct. >> could you explain, man. >> one thing to keep in mind is that the increase in security expect terrorist is not being more security. i think people get confused by that. they are kind of an oversized and sometimes it is a little bit match for them to come in like mr. rojas said. yet another inspector coming in. i need her boots on the ground. i need my people in the field. >> thank you, man. mr. reese, would you care to comment, sir? >> i would echo mr. ross comments. but enough is a standardization issue is the collective inspect yours interpret the rates of family, approach work the same way can you get a more consistent application of the inspection process and i'll hold it there. >> thank you, sir. mr. farmer, and very lucky to have international falls is a district which is a rare point for border security. anytime a little but the tsa at a point such as that which has a lot of real growth. and if you could expand upon that a little bit. >> in areas like the inspections and from two dhs components and inspectors looking too many issues involving various actions the overseer regulations particularly pertaining to transport of hazardous material and also potential interest in customs and border protection looking at the issues there is commerce goes back and forth across the border. the railroad spend an awful lot of time and effort and cooperation with the cbp and tsa in this area are particularly with customs and border protection, their joint working groups that focus specifically on enhancing cross-border security across border in the north importer of canadian national and canadian associate. each of those has their own rail. police departments with the traffic crosses the border and goes to the customs border protection check point. there isn't a screening system that evaluates those cars to look for any indications of contraband. so it is a good, collected an extensive effort for a significant is paid both by the rail industry and the government to church to mitigate it minimize the use as a means to give something to listen in to the >> this error great teams that they are. with on the, sir, i really hope that. >> i thank the gentleman. the chair now recognizes mr. clerk read. all right, we'll go back to the chairman. one of the games that i wanted to give it and i talked with most of you about this privately is do you see any rules and regulations still hanging out there that really need to be pruned back that are no longer relevant or applicable or duplicative? let's start with mr. rojas on that. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i think the obama administration issued executive order 13563 in relation to the very issue of overlapping regulations we certainly see many comments. for us the major one -- the first one is credentialing as you well know. some other issues we've been dealing with for the two some of the validation processes a the audits or visits from multiple agencies do sometimes. i know tsa has been developing security and u.s. transportation has been doing compliance reviews. it seems to us there should be an ability to coordinate to what the results of each one are so we don't get multiple visits per se. at the same time, many carriers are members of the customs trade partnership against terrorism and have undergone valuations. the number of programs out there assertion be a concern to her industry in that sense. >> thank you. mr. farmer. >> in the area security, one of the challenges you run into this overlap at times between regulation maintained by the department of transportation and is subsequently put in place by tsa were to be put in place by tsa. it was referenced earlier to the rulemaking under the 9/11 act for training and one pertains to security plans. weak, specifically with tsa, the predominant regulation has the fact time the railroads is 1580 and focuses on reporting security concerns, please been a security coordinator, particularly with requirements pertaining to the transport of toxic inhalation material. we too believe that those regulate now in effect for a couple of years the process to develop and start five plus years ago that there's an opportunity to look at some of the specific processes under the rules to determine what is necessary at this point. in the media and party existing the department of transportation and to preparedness training, tsa looks to regulate in that area, support you harmonize that for that one agency takes the field so you have one set of requirements that pertain. dhs, as mr. rojas pointed out his acted upon the executive order calling for review. one concern we have is the document for the photo registers seem to indicate the focus of the review revealed the interviews that were five years old and more. but dhs it has not been in existence, and particularly any regulations put out within the past five years. in a sense they've taken out at the table. it would take a broader look at at that action on the president's executive order and regulations as they exist and also look at one's that have been mandated for their necessity at this point. >> this'll be for mr. farmer and chief done them. currently tsa a separate houses for rate frail and mass transit. do you participate this or not? chief done in. >> idea. i do support it because we do totally different things in our challenges are totally different, so i do support having two different structures. >> how about you, mr. farmer? >> sert county split between free rail and mass transit of sound. we can rent difficulties in coordination however the passenger bit of a spirit free passengers operate in the same infrastructures was important within government to avoid there doing collectively for security and often because they're in the same routes. that is two things that participate in basir said. some should be for the grant program says the committee is so instrumental in making have been as benefits that accrue to fragrant and recipients. in the aar, we have formed a joint committee, a passenger -- for a passenger committee specifically to ensure from a security as well as operations and safety working while a concert together. we would ask when tsa considers matters pertaining to wrote that they look from integrated approach that these are not separate channels, but there is much common synergy that can be gained in freight rail security. >> my last question is for chief done him. your system is literally a living system security fund. i feel strongly about your closed-circuit cameras and how far you've come up those simply and of course canines, which is my pet issue, but i would like for you to speak briefly on how the teams fit into your operations. >> we are very fortunate in atlanta to have a really good working relationship under the federal air marshals program. the teams are great resource for us because we don't have extra resources. you can call the viper team fan. they are acclimated to the rail environment and so they come in, especially for special events, large-scale event. they come in and blend into our environment. outcome of this extra added resource for us. we've been fortunate on the great working relationship. >> thank you. the thought of the. the ranking members recognize for five minutes for additional questions. >> thank you very much. you have reason very important issues on how we can make or inspect various really focus in on the word that would secure the railroads. so i raised it to a question of your support for the establishment of the inspector office at tsa, which would improve oversight and training and give greater attention to surface programs. the provision is in h.r. 1900. >> interesting enough, i worked at tsa when the program started. and right at the outset it was very much coordinated from that level, which did enable substantial progress in some key areas to take place. in particular, the arrangements between the railroads and transit agencies on security action items thand rail communities to have inspectors come in and evaluate those. in both areas in great rail and mass transit and passenger rail comes substantial value accrued from that coordinated effort driven by a well-defined priority, says in action items and producing the court to prove value by tsa in developing programs into railroads, passenger and freight in looking at how well they were doing and being were opportunities for improvement they exist. i referenced earlier specifically appointed to achieve a purpose to your preference should bring the oversight, to bring the consistency. in fact, the letters that appoint them are very expressive and how the railroad should be willing in april and frequently take advantage of this physician. it seems than the actual implementation of the suspect there's have not been able to do the job in the way that the letters indicated they would. they are not even actually the organizational structure or inspectors in the field. so some approach.brings back a marionette priorities for field in fact yours with the policies being set between mobile divisions and mass transit finish ends with representative industry, railroad officials, transit officials, people in my possession. so whatever approach can get us back to the marionette priorities between headquarters and activities in the fields is one that would be beneficial across the board. >> content at the inspector service officer be just that and also to focus on the security side of an inspection, it hangs that would prevent harm from coming to the railroad processes in their business. certainly it's important to look at paperwork, the resources in the transportation security administration should be focused on what is there that is threatening that facility. would you agree to that? .. but find a way to handle that in a manner that doesn't interfere with the serious work of securing that area. thank you for that and mr. reese let me pursue the question on pipelines. we know that pipelines systems are highly automated and therefore we are hoping that there is technology as the most sophisticated kind that is now being used. so i would appreciate you speaking to the latest security technology that may be used on private lines and what discussions if you have had any with the department of homeland security regarding dealing with improved pipeline security and i raise the issue of the incident in montana, which was not a peripheral act. it was not an act by a terrorist, but our pipeline system is -- and what are you doing and what is happening with the security technology for pipelines? >> yes, maam. of course the overarching challenge with pipelines is they are so geographically diverse and there's so much asset to protect. what it necessitates from the beginning is prioritizing those for civility set are most critical to you. tsa does a pretty prescriptive process by which operators are to determine but ultimately the operator knows or should know what is most at risk and so forth so it against with prioritizing those things. their systems and the like can be applied effectively. across miles and miles of pipeline it is very difficult. there are-somethings working in our favor. for instance because of the d.o.t. and epa requirements about monitoring we do have in our case at colonial we have aircraft that fly continuously. those folks are well aware of the security implications and they know to report abnormalities and so forth. we still consider our greatest risk to be a third party with a big piece of yellow iron digging a water well or some kind of trenching that is outside of our company. a sickly a third party is our greatest risk but it has the added effect of monitoring for surreptitious activity. if someone was out there to do us harm who is detecting it. beyond that it is a lot of emphasis being placed on the operators to understand what to look for and what to report, suspicious activities. be to reach out to her local law enforcement committees and invite them to our facilities and we get together and look at the facilities and we talk. so that those folks have it in their mind what we are, what we are worried about and what we are not worried about and are able to respond. it is a grassroots knit together awareness campaign across the system and we have even involved the general public and landowners. >> i know your challenges best. i know pipelines are where we wouldn't even imagine that they are. i think in working with the chairman i would like to suggest this is an important issue for this committee and working with our stakeholders that we need to focus on ways that we can ensure the highest level of security for this infrastructure that is everywhere. let me do a final quick question to the chief. you made an interesting point and it was really unique that you do not get funding from the state of georgia so you are dependent on resources i assume that you might secure through the fee process, but very dependent on federal resources and i'm reminded even though it was a strange set of facts, of the olympics and the incident that occurred there. i know that you all were heavily real initiated because of the olympics. so, tell me if dhs funding was zeroed out, we mention the transportation security grants but i know you have access to others. you mentioned grants. how devastating would that be on a large metropolitan area of like yours? >> yes, maam. thank you. we are in a unique situation as i stated. the state of georgia does not sound transit so every day is a challenge for operating budget and so you can imagine that when you start asking for target hardening, it extra sensitive tv cameras or intrusion detection for our rail lines, you have to get in line. so other things take priority so we isaf to be conscious of the fact that if we don't have grant funding for certain items we don't get them. and so if we were not to receive any more grant funding. >> federal funding. >> federal funding, we would be in trouble. our system would be less vulnerable for attacks and of course we would do as much as we could but of course we could do so much more with the federal funding that we need to receive every day. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you to the witnesses. >> just to follow-up on the ranking member's question. what percentage of your security funding does come from these federal sources? >> we have a 75% of our funding for target hardening comes from grant funding. and of course we talk about -- we get very little from them because we know -- they know we get a lot from department of homeland security so they go to other agencies first. >> the chair recognizes the chairman for minnesota. >> thank you. real quick after 9/11 unfortunately we have now been incorporated in front of her national security system. all of us have it due diligence to ensure the homeland security and with that said i was kind of wondering in regards to the different models here, see something say something campaign. have you seen that to be fruitful for us? could you start off mr. barton? >> yes, sir. that campaign has been effective in a number of modes of transportation in particular passenger rail, amtrak has a very proactive program. a of commuter promotes see something, say something. it has been widely used across the country in last year dhs adopted a nationwide program that has introduced many critical infrastructure sectors. so we see it as a very effective means by which the public, which is quite familiar with what goes on as they use it each day because of the time they spend on it. for them to understand how to report security concerns. programs that entail reaching out to those who live near their operations or have interest in their operations can become initialized for security as well. >> thank you, sir. mr. rojas. >> i would describe -- everybody is much more alert now as we look out. we just had an incident back in february and they ranking member state in lubbock texas were student was a saudi student -- was arrested after trying to procure some material to develop a bomb, and the reason why the student was actually are arrested was because an employee of the carrier company noticed that the elements, the cargo, was suspect. we did some research on the person and decided to call and he called in his security team and they called law-enforcement. at the same time the chemical company also called in the fbi so i think there's this level of alertness that is out there that is part of that information sharing component we are talking about. it goes both ways and it is important to ensure that critical information sharing and a component of how can we communicate with law enforcement to ensure that if we see something so this this issues we able to call it in so i think i would agree. i think it is better and everybody's psyche everybody psyche now. >> thank you. chief dumb and. >> see something say something is become a way of life. is not just a program. you have to embed it into your everyday operation and so see something, say something is valuable. one thing we did learn from 9/11 is that we can't do it alone. even the amount of officers we can't do it alone so we need our customers to be our eyes and ears and to help us. this is something we can ask them to help us and we have a very aggressive see something, say something program but not only that we have a knob on my shift program for our employees so they help us as well because the employees are your first line of defense so they tell us what is going on. we are very pleased with our see something, say something campaign and tougaloo university came down last month to take a look at our program because it is one of the cutting edge programs for see something, say something. >> you kind of sparked a memory. when i was in a baby, not on my watch. mr. reese? >> most definitely applicable. pipeline plans are typically threat they so there's a baseline of security measures and then there is an additional measure that would be based on threat. however that threat information is obtained whether provided by the government or whether it is concerned citizen or an employee who is alert and aware that information is valuable and it ought to trigger and i was suggested as the cornerstone of any effective plan. see something say something is an. >> mr. chairman do the time i will yield back, sir. >> i:the gentleman. >> i can't miss this opportunity. i want to thank chief dunham for now publicly announcing a new national effort not on my shift. mr. chairman and i have just made an agreement, not on our time on this committee. >> that's right. not on our ship. >> if anything is going to happen to the nation's transportation system, we just put a heavy burden on ourselves or with the how fast and furious. not in my shift. that is a great one. thank you and i yield back mr. chairman. >> i:the witnesses for your time and preparation. it has been very helpful. we have another panel otherwise i would keep asking questions. that i would remind all the witnesses that members may have additional questions. the whole purpose of this hearing is to layout the congressional records and facts. i have additional questions and other members mike and i would ask when those are submitted to you within 10 days to try to get us back a written response to those. [inaudible conversations] the chair recognizes the second panel. we are pleased to have with the several distinguished witnesses before us today on this important topic. let me remind the witnesses that their entire statements will be appearing in the record. our first witness is mr. nicholas calio. how did i pronounce that? i am sure it richard at. he is executive officer of the air transport association. the chair recognizes mr. calio for his opening testimony. you will have to get your microphone there mr. calio. >> thank you. chairman rogers, ranking member jackson-lee and members of the committee, thank you or the opportunity to testify here today. as the committee undertakes reauthorizing tsa, think it might be helpful to set a little perspective. by recalling why tsa was created to begin with. to protect the united states, its systems, our economy and a way our way of life from terrorist attacks. the reason i mention this is because as i travel around in airports i often observe travelers are passengers who with the passage of time, don't seem to understand why the screening process is necessary. it is. can it be better? cs and ata is working with tsa to try to improve it. effective efficiency is vital to the airline industry and fulfilling our central role in propelling commerce and economic vitality and global competitiveness of the united states. terrorist attacks, either on or through airlines, underscore a simple fact. aviation security is a core homeland security function. are airlines appreciate the collaborative relationship we have with tsa and their willingness to partner with us which is greatly improving the regulatory process, and we believe aviation security. ata supports the risk-based approach to security for passengers, cargo and crew that administrator pistole has endorsed. allowing tsa to focus its finite resources on that which creates the greatest risk is both good policy and good security. in conjunction with tsa's long-standing strategy and multilayered countermeasures and the incorporation of random measures, this approach allows the agency to further concentrate resources on high-risk passengers and cargo. targeted security includes differentiating individuals and shippers whose backgrounds are known. the air transport association along with the airline pilots association and tsa has developed a crewmember program which will begin a 90-day pilot program next month at seven major airports. ata has advocated and discussed with tsa having flight attendants included in that program as soon as possible. moving crew out of the security line has a secondary benefit. it's the -- speeds up the process which is something we realize we need to do. passengers could also benefit from a known traveler program and ata strongly endorses tsa's intention of introducing such a program and in our view the sin of the better. finally we support similar programs for cargo. we are working with tsa and customs border protection for further risk-based screening of international inbound air cargo. the goal is for tsa and cpp to receive and process information about shippers earlier in the process of a can do it more effectively and without stopping the flow of goods. everything we are discussing here today is about the safe and secure transportation of the people and goods that make america what it is today, connecting small and large communities and connecting america to the global economy. today u.s. airlines and their passengers continued to bear the burden of funding a system that and if can affect the entire nation. those who seek to harm our country like targeting commercial aircraft are attacking the entire u.s. populations in our way of life, not just the airlines. yet in 2010 passengers and airlines paid dhs $3.4 billion in taxes and fees, $2 billion of which went to tsa. this is a 50% increase of over what was collected in 2002. it is an enormous contribution from a single segment of the private sector. no other industry or mode of transportation including anyone on the previous panel is required to fund their own security. only the airline industry and its passengers. this really has got to change. in conclusion, the air transport association will continue to work with tsa to evolve our practices to ensure that we have the best possible security so the u.s. airlines can continue to move goods and people to the benefit of our nations economy and our global competitiveness. we look forward to working with you, with tsa to reinforce these mutual goals. thank you very much. >> thank you to calio. it was very impressive. we appreciate you being here today. we now go to our second witness who is mark van tine who serves as chief executor -- officer and the manufactures association. the chair now recognizes mr. van tine. >> thank you mr. chairman and good afternoon chair rogers, ranking member jackson-lee and numerous members of the subcommittee. i appreciate this opportunity sit before you and speak about the efforts to reauthorize the transportation and security administration. mr. chairman as you said my day job i am president and ceo. i do appear today on behalf of gamma and my role as a security chairman for the general aviation manufacturers association. gamma represents 72 world leading manufactures of fixed-wing aircraft engines, avionics and components. since the events of september 11, 2001, the generation committee has worked diligently to increase security measures and awareness of potential threats to the aviation system. numerous domestic and international initiatives have been put in place by both government and industry that substantially mitigate security risks. there are however areas which we believe the committee should focus for improving security and obtaining operational efficiencies. the first is a large aircraft security program. the large aircraft security program has received significant attention from the general aviation community and numbers of congress sent a notice of proposed rulemaking was published in october of 2008. since the introduction the industry has raised concerns and actively engage with tsa to develop a program that appropriately balances legitimate security risks with the rights of citizens to fly their own airplanes. we have made good progress together. gamma asked the administration moved quickly to incorporate the industry's input and finalize its rulemaking as it would enhance security without creating negative consequences. the second is around repair stations. must like -- much like the last rulemaking the industry awaits completion of an aircraft repair station security rulemaking by dhs. tsa is put forth rulemaking that would implement security requirements for repair station to november 2009. we believe it is imperative for tsa and dhs to move forward and complete this rulemaking which puts in place the type of risk-based repair for repair station security that is good for the industry and good for the country. the third is around temporary flight restrictions and access to airspace. temporary flight restrictions tfr passmark are you specifically to designate air space around selected sporting events and protect the travel of selected individuals. understand the desire for limitation of tfr but suggest that tsa needs to review their impact on the community to and -- that have a security program in place. in conclusion mr. chairman and members of the subcommittee thank you for your leadership on these issues and for inviting all of us to testify. i believe it is essential for tsa industry and congress to continue to work together on general aviation security issues to ensure we have an effective security system that supports the business and private use of general aviation aircraft. thank you and i look forward to answering your question. >> the chair recognizes her third witness currently serving as president of the cargo airline association. the chair now recognizes mr. altman. >> good afternoon. mr. chairman, ranking member jackson-lee and members of the subcommittee i am delighted to be here today and we appreciate the opportunity to testify before you as you move to authorize the transportation security administration. the cargo airline association is a nationwide trade organization representing the interests of the nation's all cargo carriers, specializing school -- soli and cargo are members of the primary drivers of worldwide economy that demands the efficient time definite transportation of a wide range of commodities. every member of the aviation community recognize as the highest level of safety and security must be a cornerstone of all of our operations. it is also important to understand that the aviation industry is composed of a diverse group of businesses with substantially different operational models. we have heard some from mr. calio and we have heard some from gamma. there a whole host of different aviation models and i believe mr. rojas stated earlier we expect the trucking agency and one size does not fit all. indeed even within the all cargo community there are substantially different operations. some of our members offer time definite service and are generally known for their express operations. other companies concentrate on traditional freight operations providing the transportation function for the community and all of these different characteristics are currently taken into account by the transportation security at administration as we all operate under different security directives, different emergency amendments and different security programs. each of these different regulatory requirements is tailored to address the unique threats and vulnerabilities of the separate entity segments and this method of regulating the industry should continue. this multilayered risk-based approach to aviation security is clearly appropriate. as tsa ministry or john pistole 51 june 2, 2011 the tsa employees are risk-based intelligence driven operations to prevent terrorist attacks. we absolutely agree with the statement. we believe however this approach to aviation security should go at it for there. we actually think it should be codified in a tsa authorization bill to ensure that the theory and the practice of regulating the aviation industry based on intelligence driven risk-based factors should in fact be a cornerstone of the agency itself and should be part of the authorization process. we also agree and appreciate the administrator pistole's to work collaboratively for the to develop programs necessary to enhance security. to his credit the administration has made good on his promise to engage the industry in formulating policy as we move forward. however, we also believe that the tsa industry communications interface should be strengthened and institutionalized by legislatively establishing the aviation security advisory committee. this is an advisory committee that was in effect until a couple of years ago and its charter has run out. it is now being reformed and they have parted been technically reconstituted but we can't gamble that this will happen again and we urge the committee to move forward in the tsa authorization bill to institutionalize the existence of the aviation security advisory committee. i would like to talk just briefly about a couple of things so i don't repeat what mr. calio said. after the incident in yemen in 2010, a lot of activity took place. the result of that activity with tsa and the industry working collaboratively to put a whole host of new programs in place to secure international transportation. i would just like to talk about a couple of things that are ongoing. the department of homeland security established air cargo security working group's to deal with what we want to do is we go forward. we think one of the most promising areas of inquiry is the intelligent sharing aspect of it and get those working groups move forward we urge you to let them move forward and encouraged them to move forward. another one of those committees dealt with how to get that are technology and better -- so we can screen cargo better. we are chewed to continue the funding that we absolutely recognized that funding problems we had in this country now so i would like to concentrate on low-tech rather than high-tech. a lot was said in the first panel about dogs and we absolutely agree that the k-9 program should be encouraged and expanded. we specifically urge that this committee consider forcing the tsa to expand the use of private k-9 the's in the screening process and that we don't just rely on tsa dogs because there aren't enough of them and there is a program we can put in place where tsa could actually started by the dogs and have private screeners do them. we are in strong support of that. mr. chairman icy my time is up. i would be happy to answer any questions as we move forward. thank you very much. >> thank you mr. alterman and we are working to that end to do just that. the chair now recognizes our witness, mr. christopher witkowski. he is currently serving as director of air safety health and security for the association of flight attendants. the chair now recognizes mr. witkowski. >> thank you chairman rogers and ranking member jackson-lee for holding this hearing and allowing us to weigh in on the safety and security issues that are important to flight attendants and national security. and we thank mr.-- for being here as well. my name is christopher witkowski and i'm director of the health and security department of the association of flight attendants cwa who represent more than 60,000 flight attendants and 23 u.s. airlines. before i begin i would like to mention flight attendants and air an integral part of the crew in terms of safety and security and have been subjected to the same level of screening and background checks as pilots yet only pilots are being included in the test of the known crewmember screening process that allows expedited crewmember screening at security checkpoints. we thank the committee for their support of flight attendants and we hope this committee will continue to exert pressure on tsa to include flight attendants in the program as it moves forward. i am here to talk about what has happened or in this case what has not happened to flight attendant security and self-defense training in the 10 years since the horrific attacks of 9/11. flight attendants are first responders on commercial airplanes responsible for the protection and preservation of the cabin environment as well as the lives of tens of millions of people every year. there are also the last line of defense in the aircraft cabin. recognizing their security role congress has on separate occasions pass bipartisan laws mandating flight attendants self-defense training but corporate pressure and agency prejudice have interfered with congressional intent. i am here to say the training for flight attendants remains elusive and leeds passenger airplanes unnecessarily vulnerable to attack. prior to the 9/11 attacks flight attendants were instructed to slow down their actions to comply with hijackers. the sooner the hijacker wanted to go to a destination or wanted money or notoriety only. two months after 9/11, congress passed the aviation and transportation security act which mandated a change to the drinking curriculum and philosophy. the new hijack lee's aircraft as a weapon of mass destruction. heart of the request for updating the training included basic self-defense maneuvers to allow flight attendants to defend himself against a terrorist attack. we are not asking for flight attendants to be certified martial arts experts. afa worked with regulators and industry representatives to create a training program that would allow flight attendants to be provided with the appropriate training required to perform their duties. with the passage of apps to afa also urged congress to change the requirements for flight attendant security training to include a provision that mandated a said a number of hours for the security training of these mandates would have to be in for so all carriers would be required to provide the same level of appropriate and effective security training for all flight attendants. the homeland security act of 2002 required the undersecretary of transportation for security to issue a rule mandating both classroom and effective hands-on situational training covering 10 elements. among them come appropriate and effective responses to defend oneself, including the use of force against an attacker. it was vision 100, the faa reauthorization act of 2003 that eliminated the department department of homeland security requirement for tsa to issue a rule requiring both classroom and effective hands-on situational security training. yet this was done without the homeland security committee review. does vision 100 letter to the individual air carriers to develop this security training originally to be done by tsa including the element relating to appropriate responses to defend oneself. because vision 100 took away tsa's obligation to develop the basic security training rule for all carriers, it mandated that tsa develop and provide advanced voluntary self-defense training programs. when we talk about mandatory basic security training and our comments, we are generally talking about only a five to 30 minute self-defense training module developed and provided by the air carriers themselves. air carriers appear to be checking the boxes in relation to the required elements of training. without tsa establish standards, there is a wide variance in amount of security training being allocated to self-defense. the so-called advanced training a developed by tsa in the voluntary self-defense training. this program offered by tsa has not advanced but rather an introduction to basic self-defense. it is a one-day course conducted throughout the year at various locations and focuses on hands-on self-defense training. unfortunately it is difficult for members to attend as it becomes harder for them to take time off from work on their flying days. flight attendants have been unwilling to attend training that may require them to pay for tail and meal expenses. the result has been depressed participation in the self-defense training program. flight attendants were paid or if the costs associated with attending were covered in participation could be hired -- higher. tsa is the authority to implement comprehensive and inclusive security and self-defense training for all flight attendants but has failed to do so. they should be a mandatory basic counterterrorism training that prepares flight attendants to deal with potential threat conditions as congress has required since the enactment of asset in 2001. despite the best intentions the ideas put forward by congress have been weakened and even ignored over time. conference of counterterrorism training must be enacted by congress in order to ensure implementation of what is required since 9/11. is the uniform crewmember test by the tsa to defend the flight deck at all costs according to tsa, strategy the flight attendant as a is a target for terrorist to eliminate in order to successfully carry out an attack. the elements of which are stated that current law. basic counterterror some training for flight attendants if properly implemented by tsa would repair the flight attendants for potential threatening conditions. thank you for your attention i would be happy to answer any questions. >> i thank the gentleman and thank the panel for all the thoughtful statements in the time it took to prepare them as well as to deliver them. the hour clocks aren't working so we are going to try to wing it and stay at five minutes. we heard in the first panel some expressed frustration as we heard a couple of statements on this panel. the express frustration expressed frustration of a lack of communication of the thread or the risks that industry folks need to be aware of that tsa has not been sharing as fully as folks would like and working on that. another thing that we have heard about though are summoned charisse stakeholders who have expressed frustration at technology development and procurement. not bringing the private sector and to help find solutions to the problems that folks are facing. i would ask and start with mr. calio, is your industry being given timely information from tsa is to the technology at needs and foresees needing and asking for feedback as to how we can get from where we are to where we need to be? >> mr. chairman you always think of a situation like this, the type of situation where the communication improves. i would say in our view communication with tsa has improved significantly over the last couple of years and they're very collaborative with us. they act as a partner with us in many cases and share information. do we think we would like to have more input at times? sure, we do but we have been given a lot of opportunity to have that input. >> i know you mentioned in your opening statement your desire to see not only the pilots and the attendants being able to go through an expedited line but as you know the traveler. is my understanding within the next couple of weeks or so we are going to hear an announcement with regard to all those things but i think we all agree that it is going to be a partnership between tsa and the air force to make those things work effectively and it is going to benefit everybody. how about any of the other panelists? do you feel you are all being included by the tsa when you are doing thinking sessions about what kind of technology we need and how can we procure it and get it into the field? mr. van tine? >> i think as we look at it i think one of the concerns that we have is the use of security directives and certainly we recognize the importance of using security directives and contingencies and emergencies but there is this tendency to use it to influence standing policy rather than working with industry to look at the operational impacts and the consequences of some of those directives. so we would ask that tsa and congress looked at how we can work closer with the industry and not use that as a mechanism for creating policy. >> mr. alterman? >> i think going back to your original question whether we are being counseled that in terms of the technology we need in our instance anyway, the answer is now yes and what may have been in the past i think you know, there may have been some problems. that is not what we see concentrating on. the dhs cargo working groups we are formed within the past years, one of those working groups, subworking groups as specifically on the technology and how we get it and what needs to be done and what is the monetary research and the industry is intimately involved in that so i think the answer to your question is we are sometimes frustrated because we want to know everything and we want to know it yesterday but with respect to the technology.we have got to a point where we are involved with that process. >> excellent and mr. witkowski? >> thank you mr. chairman. the afa has talked about several other important aviation security issues that need to be addressed. one of them is the communication device, discrete communication device in emergency situations because every second you lose any of your response is going to be putting you more at risk for a terrorist attack or could tsa be looking at this issue because it was required to be looked at it than the homeland security act almost 10 years ago and i understand that they have been looking at different types of devices that could be used for communication with the flight deck of the flight attendants. but we were never invited or included in those discussions directly affecting the flight attendant security aboard the aircraft. we did participate in a panel that looked at the federal air marshal communication system and we contributed to that quite extensively but as far as the flight attendant issue which we understood they were discussing we were not included and we felt we should have been. >> excellent. mr. calio, this will be my last question. we all have heard about the airline stowaway and while we are frustrated by that i like to remind people that we get millions of people and the fact is we have human air because humans are running these filters that we use and i am aggravated like everybody else. when we hear about somebody getting through this system, we also are doing it right in a lot of ways. i want to talk about this particular guy for a minute. what type of technology do airlines use of the gate to verify the boarding pass presented matches that at the flight date and is the technology depend on the airline? >> yes, mr. chairman it does. i can't speak for virgin where the air occurred -- error occurred because they are not a member of ours but i can explain some of what happened. you had a dual error and tsa air and a gate error. what happened with the gate agent when he scanned the boarding pass showed but it showed in the error and virgin error shows a scanner where the red light goes on. for the reason the gate agent did not check or they're what the what the problem was. when a gate agent scans the bar code, if it comes up red, there could be as many as a dozen or more error codes that come up which will then allow the gate agent to figure out what is wrong. i point out in this particular case the same individual who was traveling on virgin was stopped at the gate by a delta agent which is when he was arrested by the fbi. >> and this particular case this is very frustrating because there were several elements of human failure but thank you for that. with that, i will shut up and let the ranking member and -- ask her questions. >> thank you very much for what i thought was a very instructive question. let me thank all the witnesses for their very i think constructive remarks and i would like to thank the cargo association, mr. alterman, for your support of the aviation security advisory committee and i believe that is an important issue both mr. thompson and myself in the ranking member requested tsa to establish that and we are hoping to codify that legislation in working with the chairman of this committee. the earlier questioning where we said not on our watch, at least i offer those words as we look at the transportation system throughout america. i think there a lot of points that have been made that help us move forward together. that is what i think is most important, the public-private partnership. earlier today i had the opportunity to speak to an industry group on the issue of cargo security and our commitment there along with the secretary of transportation, government and the private sector working together. want to thank them for their policy hearings. i will always look to the rightness of some of the things that tsa does and in their pilot program, not sure if this is a lucky number. it seems like the state of alabama and the state of texas have been left out. the chairman did not ask me to mention that but i would wonder, wonder why that is the case and i would like to review. i don't see why we couldn't have more in the pilot program and maybe there would be someone here, not the panelist of course but we could get with the tsa on that choice. i think to include additional southern cities would be very helpful and busy cities as well. but as they move forward, let you try to focus in on some of the points that have been made, in particular about issues that are of concern. the repair stations i think mr. van tine you spoke about and we have no life here so let me try to encourage her answer. is there an inconsistency in our oversight of the repair stations? would you want to or ticket like that again, please? >> again when we look at the industry we produce a large percentage of our product is going overseas to international locations and are operated on an international basis so what we are looking for is the consistency and application of those security requirements. the tsa has reviewed that and believes that there is consistency. i believe when the administrator of pistole testified here a couple of weeks ago that he noted that. we are looking for a dad that rulemaking to be implemented and that he put in place so there is that consistency. >> and you believe you have sufficient input on the rulemaking, that it is one that is going to be constructive in oversight of those repair stations? >> yes, we do. >> and you were speaking about foreign repair stations because that has been a constant source of concern for this committee as you well realize and it is also a source of potential threat. i think we need very very strong oversight but when he consistency. is that your position? >> that is our position. >> i just heard the bell here. very quickly, first let me say personally to mr. witkowski that i have been consistently fighting for what i think is common sense. there are two aspects to that. one, i would encourage the flight attendants have the opportunity to have the same security access or ees of access that our pilots do. i have never seen a plane take off without a pilot or sufficient flight attendants. i have been on planes when we are waiting for flight attendants. so, i know that they are not flying but they are part of the team. and i don't see why we cannot get a full understanding of that issue. so can you explain the devastation or the potential danger of an untrained flight attendant for some of the more serious incidents that might occur? >> i imagine that the flight attendants that were on the northwest airlines december 25 flight into detroit were using their basic instincts unless you are going to tell me that they had gone through the training that i've asked for them to go through. it if they did not, say they did not. if they did not go through a high level of training. >> they didn't go go to the higher level of training. >> but they use their instincts and that training might have helped even more so tell me what would happen -- happens without that higher level of training? >> their reaction was a firefighting reaction in terms of trying to get the fire out that the tears had begun by using explosives but if there's a terrorist attack, which involves deadly force, the flight attendants will be the first to go as somewhere on 9/11. tsa had tried to make a rule saying that you could allow some items on board the aircraft like scissors that would have less than 4.5 inches or five inches of blade but the idea was when you punch that and you are not likely to kill someone. the problem is that what they do is they slice the arteries in the neck. someone can bleed out in a matter 15 or 20 seconds away flight attendant doesn't get that basic training to react instinctively as train to block those areas where they can be killed and they can bleed out and then they will die. the terrorists will have control of the cabin because we never know what other passengers -- so you are not going to be able to control that. >> so what is your argument? was your bottom line about the enhanced training? the what is needed and enhanced training? >> what is your bottom line? how important is that? >> is critical to national security. >> how difficult do you think it is for airlines to do so? >> is not typical. the homeland security act language which that language was just reinstated in the law, that -- tsa was going forward with that in developing a program that was enacted in 2003 on young. >> how crosley from your own gas, would it be enormously costly? him think it would be enormously costly in terms of having that kind of program and one of the recommendations we made was that we would make sure that the head of defense for the federal air marshals would ensure that was effective training perks. >> and it would be egg continuation. >> there could be recurrent training. once you get down you have to train and so that in the initial training so the flight attendants can react immediately so they have built memory from the training in order to react if they are attacked in a cab and. >> let me move quickly. let me say i am interested in the issue of the security act and hopefully we will work with tsa to find out how that can be expanded. i have two quick questions for mr. calio and mr. altman and i apologize if the name is not correct but after 9/11 and let me just say i have an appreciation for airlines. it brings graham us together and if you go into the airports people generally are happy because they are going somewhere. and they are going to get there quickly. i don't believe any member of congress hesitated one moment after 9/11 to bailout the airlines. i understood the devastation and the crime from the airlines. they needed a large bailout from the federal government. so the idea of paying for security is what patriots do. patriot stand up for their country and there's absolutely no other way that we can provide for security without that assessment. whether we increase it i have an open mind are going interested in not seen -- i cannot in any way except the fact that it is not the responsibility of the airlines and those of us who are passengers and we do pay it. the passenger fee is passed through to us so it doesn't impact airlines at all. but what i would like to find out is this issue of the recurrent basic training for flight attendants and the idea of this enhanced training. what would be the problem with that? >> you got it right the first time in calio. i've heard it many different ways. >> we shouldn't do that so calio. >> i would say first that the safety of our crews and passengers are always our highest priority and we won't compromise that. you know i believe we have a disagreement about whether the enhanced training is necessary. we provide basic training and defensive techniques as part of our conference a flight attendant training. we don't believe that training with more aggressive measures woods provide benefits based on a multilayered security for seizures and russ is already in place. >> and i respect that but why not have it to use it if necessary? that is really the question that is not the answer. i think the complement of that of course is the appropriate use of it and i believe that you have a well-trained, well collected flight attendant that would have the right judgment. certainly we want to use it on a passenger that got up to the restroom at the wrong time if all they were doing was going to the restroom but i do think it is appropriate in a climate that they are living and to have that. i would like to keep an open mind and i'm going to convene a meeting of the airlines and i hope maybe the chairman will join with me on that issue. let me finish by just asking mr. alterman -- thank you for your answer. let me ask mr. alterman, we have packages that you know that were coming in from yemen on flights that were cargo. it open their eyes. some of us had our eyes open before but it opened our eyes to the eye of the storm that cargo planes and your staff and your personnel are and. what should we do more on the cargo security side? >> thank you. i think that a lot of the answer to that question is what has been done. you are absolutely correct. it opened all of our eyes. terrorists are not dumb. terrorists are looking to exploit weaknesses and it is virtually impossible to figure out everything that they might do in the future. and so, this thread in yemen was an eye-opener for all of us. what it did immediately, it said into a motion -- motion a series of events whereby the transportation security administration in conjunction with the industry and i give them credit, and beginning to feel like an apologist for tsa and i don't want to do that. i will probably get fired. to their credit they worked with the industry after yemen incident to try to figure out where the vulnerabilities are, what went wrong and how do we avoid them in the future? the results of that word, imagine some of them. some of them are ongoing projects through dhs and the working groups that are ongoing in the pilot programs that have been described by mr. calio to try to identify freight in advance of the game loaded on the plane. but let me go back to what was done immediately because i think that was very important and very unusual. tsa issues a security of -- number of security -- as it began to find out more information. what they learned clearly from that incident is that intelligence is the best way of thwarting terrorist. those packages, all of them were screened three times and guess what? they looked like renter cartridges. they were at actually thwarted by the intelligence efforts of people overseas. so one of the things we learned and we try to implement and we talked about it before it is, we need to get better intelligence sharing. we need for the government to share with itself among itself and transmitted the industry as quickly as possible but over and above that what we learned is that we need a ken to employ the risk-based system to understand that they package from yemen may not do the same as a package from dubuque iowa and we need to take different measures based on the threat both in the location and the shipper. we need to get a better trusted shipper program overseas so that we know who we are dealing with and when we don't know who we are dealing with we need to take more intrusive and better care of our freight. >> i hate to cut you off but we have three and a half men -- minutes to get over to the floor. i would like mr. craddick to be able to answer a question before we leave. >> mr. calio, appreciate you being here today. both of the airlines pilots and federal flight officers have gone through a lot of different training in this industry. and i really think it is imperative that what you brought out in your written testimony that the aircrew flight attendants and pilots know who is on their aircraft. it is imperative, and i just echo that and i complement you one that. i have got just a couple of quick questions for you because unfortunately it will be appreciated. i am a strong promote -- opponent and i strongly agree with that but with that said, you are proposing additional training and some of the words you use our flight attendants must know how to respond to deadly force. is imperative national security. -- this rule is written right now, sir, what i have a very big contention with its additional training is proposed which prohibits any testing that allows any crewmember to opt out if they do not wish to physically participate, is that correct sir or am i reading this wrong? >> the homeland security act that i referred to to allow a crewmember who believed that they'd couldn't take a hands-on self-defense training was allowed to opt out. that was in the homeland security act language. >> i have a real big problem with that especially going through officer training and some of the training i have gone through. if they are going to be a vital member of the team as you have proposed and making sure that they know how to use deadly force and is imperative to national security, especially deadly force. you don't want to engage unless you know what you are doing. the big thing is and i've gone through enough physical training to understand this, as much as you need to know to give a punch or a clock, you have to know how to take one. so that was just my point and do you have something to say? >> i was going to say the way tsa began to implement that before it was taken away by vision 100 was that they were going to ensure that all the crewmembers got the training or some level of self-defense training so they could protect themselves. >> we can talk about that. i apologize. i yield back. >> i've got so many more questions and obviously we'll do. we have 54 seconds to get across the street. having said that, we are leaving the record open for 10 days. i'm too going to supply questions to you all and i know other members will. i told the first panel all this is to support her writing of the authorizations are your answers are very important and your testimony and presence is really important. i want to thank the witnesses for their time and apologize for the delay in having to leave early. the members committee will get your questions and with that, this committee stands adjourned. 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