Transcripts For CSPAN2 Lisa Miller And New York Magazine Editors Take Up Space - The... 20220803

Will try to get to everyones questions, but i apologize in advance if we dont have time to address yours. We are delighted to offer closed captioning for this event via zooms auto captioning service. To access captions simply click on the live transcripts option, which is also along the bottom of your screen. And now on to our event the candidate was young 28 years old a child of puerto rico the bronx and Yorktown Heights. She was working as a waitress in bartender. She was completely unknown and taking on a 10term incumbent in a city famous for protecting its political institutions. Women like me arent supposed to run for Office Alexandria ocasiocortez said in a video launching her campaign. The camera following her along as she hastily pulled up her hair into a bun. But she did and perhaps the most stunning upset in recent memory. She won at 29. She was sworn in as the youngest member of the 116th congress and became the youngest woman to serve as representative in the United States in the United States history. This evening. We have three panelists to talk about take up space the unprecedented aoc. They are lisa miller. Shes a staff writer, you know, new york magazine. Shes the former religion columnist for the Washington Post former Senior Editor of Newsweek Magazine an author of heaven or enduring fascination with the afterlife. Andrea Gonzalez Ramirez is a Senior Writer for the cut new york. Magazines lifestyle culture and fashion brand at the cut. She reports on subjects surrounding communities of color focusing on racism classesism sexism and other systems of power. We use faith is a former features editor for the new republic. Currently Deputy Editor for intelligencer, new york magazines news and politics site. In this role. He helps oversee the sites direction and daytoday coverage and at its features for the web and the magazine. So without further ado i will turn the screen over to you three our panel and ill be back at the end to ask you the questions that the audience has put in the q a. Take it away screen is yours. Thank you and welcome to our our panel. Were here to take talk about take up space and this is a this book is a is kind of a hybrid part of it is a biography. Of alexandria casio cortez, thats written by lisa miller and then there are series of essays that are appended to it including one by andrea that tackle different aspects of aoc and her her reputation her budding legacy, you know, we kind of think of as sort of a panoramic look at at this phenomenal politician, so i guess my first question for lisa. Is is what is so significant about because your cortez and what made her you know the right subject for this kind of book. I mean weve been asked this question before why did you write a book about alexandria ocasiocortez, and weve been working on it for so long that it seems like so completely obvious to me that we that she should be subject for a book. I mean she is the youngest woman ever to be elected to congress. She is a woman of color. She is working class woman. She when she says women like me are not supposed to run for congress. Shes completely telling the truth. Shes she was unprecedented and her trajectory from bartender to political supernova has been so fast and her influence and her has been so great. Both in terms of people who love her and also people who hate her. She has become so divisive she has become she has been so magnetic from the beginning that it seems like she is a she is as a i was talking to a friend on the phone about this project. We were working on and he said she is a once in a generation talent and i think when he wants in a generation talent comes along she is a completely appropriate legitimate. Fascinating subject for biography and for this kind of panoramic look that we endeavor to do here. And when the first time you saw or heard of aoc andrea, did you feel the same way once in a generation . Phenom not at all. I was working studies on politics reporter for refinerary 29 with some womens media outlet and we were covering women because it was 2018 was a year of the woman and i remember going to my editors and saying that i was really interested in covering women of Color Running for office this i felt that they face different challenges, you know running us a woman is already pretty hard running as a woman of color you are adding extra elements to to that equation. I spoke with her we profile her shortly before her primary win, and i remember sitting down with my editor and being like shes super interesting. I think that her platform is interesting her story is compelling. Im puerto rican. I have not seen a lot of weekend woman run for office like she was doing so i found that like very interesting as well, but i did not think she had a chance at winning. I dont think anyone did right. She was running against the king of queens right like the four more powerful democrat in the house. So if you had told me then shes a once degeneration politician. Shes kind of like our first female wonder kind in the same league as clinton or obama or something. I would have been like thats on inserting, but im not 100 sure thats gonna be the case. Um, and i think that you know as lisa said, her legacy already like so compelling and shes sports a path for so many people that it made her. Pretty much the perfect person to write a biographical project about but just to just to underline what you said andrea, theres a theres a section in the book where dsa new york city dsa is is debating whether to endorse her. And theres a chapter whos like yes, the chapter in queens was like, yes. Definitely. Shes amazing. Shes so incredible. Shes so she speaks. So well, shes so smart. Shes so winning. Shes so good with people. Shes so charismatic. Shes so fluent in being able to articulate like the moral imperatives of what shes of what shes after and then there was a group of dsa members in the bronx who are like basically like is okay and it is really useful to have to remember that that there was a time when before she was aoc where she didnt have that like, of course nest to where people were actually really debating whether she could do it whether she had the stuff whether she could make it. What what her weaknesses were what her strengths were whether she could play the game, you know, whether she was too green whether she knew enough like they were having all of these conversations about her as she was before her primary and i just think that its super important to remember that she was just a person well, why dont you also, you know, take us back a little bit to that time, you know the it was more than just her individual talents or skills like there was something going on in 2018 that that help give to arise right, right. Well, i mean so Brand New Congress which became morphed into is adjacent to justice democrats was a group of people who were in the Bernie Sanders campaign and when he stepped out of the president ial election in 2016 decided to that that they were going to launch this enormous project and sort overturned congress with you know working class people who had sort of bernie principles working Class Community leaders. Who were who were invested in a kind of Economic Analysis of american problems, but who werent tied to big business who werent tied to political legacies who werent didnt owe anybody any favors who they were looking for teachers and coaches and librarians and normal people who could they were talking about repealing like repealing and replacing congress and so ocasiocortez had kim had canvased for the Bernie Sanders Sanders Campaign in 2016 and her brother nominated her. When random congress was looking for community leaders. To run for congress and she was like the quote is you know, okay effort like whatever she said like, okay. Ill try this again not auspicious moment. Not a moment that like like resonated with you know. Future potential it was just like her brother called her up on the phone and said do you want to run for congress . And she said, okay and he he nominated her and yes, so there was this i mean in retrospect you can use the word machine, but it wasnt really a machine. It was a bunch of people who worked for bernie who believed in bernies principles who wanted to scale it basically like you would scale a tech product and so they were looking for a bunch of people who they could. Back and help with the sort of back end of campaigning and put into congress in the 2018 cycle. And then you know under i know you covered some of that race and you know, weve talked a little bit about like that. Shes a woman and a woman of color and you know when you read this book, actually it is striking still how rare it is and you know. The unique challenges a candidate and then a lawmaker like aoc has like, you know in your reporting under when you when youre covering that race like what what challenges are. You know what unique difficult is you think . You know aoc had so of course. She was not a household name, right . She was a regular person. So just starting even with the support of a group like Brand New Congress. It was like really challenging like racing money was challenging she ate like, you know, weve seen her shoes displayed right like she literally walks so much across new york this 14th district that her shoes were trash to completely right. So i think that there was that element of like her being really scrappy with Like Community organizers and the bronx and queens and really trying to get her message out there, but also imagine that a really young woman young woman of colorado and i like knocks on your door and says like im gonna go to congress and change stuff. Most people are not gonna take that. Seriously. We we take men seriously when they say that right one of the challenges that we hear. From groups that do recruiting of like women and other marginalized genders is that you know more often than not a man will look at himself in the mirror and be like, i can be a senator women need to be recorded over and over and over again in order for them to say yes, even when theyre restms are stellar and theyre super qualified and theyve served in different roles. Youll see whats important. Theyre like, right. She was just like a fellow millennial who did not find like the patch. She thought she was gonna find after college which i think made her very relatable to a lot of people. Um, but also because she was so young because she her resume was different before because she did not have political experience. I think people did not take her seriously and joe crowley certainly did not he had a war chest of millions of millions of dollars compared to her, but he did not show up to debate her and the first time that they basically were face to face and a televised debate instead of a community one. He was very dismissive. He did not really think that she could do it. I mean no one really thought she could do and and yeah, you know, here we are now talking about her rice and politics and you know, the really impressive legacy that shes living behind already. I mean theres a theres a another story in the book. Where one of her Early Communications person people was taking her around to try to sell her essentially to some of the established political groups in the city, especially in new york 14. And you know, she is very winning. Shes very likable people like to see her in their living rooms. There were all of these like little living room get togethers when she was launching her primary campaign and and so people would you know people would be really interested in her, you know, and then at the end this this marketing person said, you know, and then at the end theyd say we appreciate your spirit kid, but were gonna vote for joe crowley and like this. Its this like, yeah, youre good, but you know your little your latina we cant pronounce your name like youre like, youre youre nobody from nowhere like crowley had such a ginormous lock on his district and had had for so long and and you know, he wasnt. He wasnt he wasnt terrible. He was just fine. And so she really had a high bosh. She had to pitch herself as the alternative to this person who was doing. Okay, and this district. He had a lot of loyal he had a lot of loyal voters. He was you know, he was potentially going to take nancy pelosi. See he was very powerful congress and there was this sense in new york 14 that he could actually like deliver for the district. And who was she she was nobody from nowhere and how was she gonna even if people had their complaints with him . How was she gonna deliver for the district and so she had to position herself. I mean andrea used the word scrappy like that. Thats like exactly right like scrappy times a billion right . She had to position herself as like all of these things about her were advantages she was young he was older she was brown in a in a district. Thats my majority. Minority. He was not um, you know, she was millennial in a young district. He was not you know, he had moved his family down to washington after a while and basically lived there and she gave this like famous famous line in that debate that you just mentioned your hair, which was like, he doesnt drink he doesnt drink our districts water and he doesnt breathe our air like she just she just mocked the floor with him doing that to be but but the way that she positioned all of her weaknesses a strengths. So that she could vanquish this this politician who really was the embodiment of you know . Democratic sort of Center Left Establishment power was like you can say what you want about justice democrats and you can say what you want about brand new calendar congress, but that was her. That was her her strength was. I remember late in that came like late in that campaign when it started to go a little bit south for crowley. They tried to and make a big deal out of the fact that she grew up partly in westchester as if to imply that you know, she was like actually secretly wealthy or something and a lot of a lot of the biographies actually about her early early years and some of some of the most revelatory stuff and so what was westchester for alexandria casio cortez andrea do you want to take this or you know zero the biography parts that you go . She and andrea wrote a wonderful section about her. She she went back and forth to puerto rico a lot when she was a kid and and her mom was born there and her whole and her whole family was there and then many of her dads relatives were also there and they would spend she and her brother would spend summers in puerto rico, especially when her parents were working and they didnt know they didnt have any child care. So the reality of Yorktown Heights was that the family moved up there when alexandria who was called sandy as a little kid what became school age and they wanted to find a good Public School for their kids and they lived in the bronx and the schools there just more good enough and her parents were ambitious for her and they wanted her to have a like good education. And so they move they they got some money from the pool mother money with family members and bought a very modest little house up in a corner of Yorktown Heights. That is a very workingclass corner. Its a its a suburb that has very high highs and low like lower lows like theres some really really fancy parts of yorktown and the high school that she went to had a lot of really rich white kids who played lacrosse was a big sport at the high school that she went to but she was a working class kid, her mom cleaned houses for a living and her dad was an architect and commuted to the bronx and had a little business where he fixed up. Apartments in the Housing Development that they had lived in in the bronx so they had you know a pretty modest. Not poor but modest household her grandmother lived with her for a time. And and so she was grew up with a like strong. Class awareness of being a kid who you know wasnt like the other kids in Yorktown Heights. And yet, you know, shes likeable. Shes a good student. She belongs to clubs. Shes not you know, shes not putting a stake in the ground. Shes a kid. Goes to girl scouts goes to church and so but but you can see from the from the people that we talked to the way that that class consciousness kind of sat with her right like its sort of it sort of ingrained itself into her into her. Who she was and she became sort of good at . Code switching at being what people expected her to be when they expanding what that was. Shes an incredible communicator. We see that now, but she was an incredible communicator then and people noted that about her but she was able to communicate two people what they in the language that they needed to hear and that is one of her most i dont know notable gifts, right she speaks twitter to the people who speak twitter and she speaks instagram to the people who speak instagram and she speaks congressional testimony to the people who speak congressional testimony, and she knows how to speak all of these different languages in order to reach all of her different constituencies, and that is something that she learned as a child living between westchester and the bronx and puerto rico i would ought to that growing up. She had like a really strong relationship with her. Dad said hell and even though she had that class awareness. I think thats that he was very much a poor weekend that in the sense that it was like kid you can do whatever you can like you what are you set your mind to do you can do it. So she grew up with like that type of aspiration and that type of drive in many ways because for better words, thats what like her dad like taught her since she was little and i think that we see that now like in the way that shes involves a politician right like shes taking it in and like learning how to adapt and learning how to grow in the way that you know, she came out into Congress Like a very much insurgent left. Were gonna like replace and primary some people and then like she got rid of some of her staff and then replace them with people who are more insiders and sorry forging like relationships with people in congress and kind of like toning down some of your brother rake because i think many ways like her dad was like the biggest influencing her life and she still takes too hard the fact that he told her anything you want to do you can do it and going back to the relationship to puerto rico. I think that also influenced her the four people who are the kids of oregons who were born here. Its very much like a media canada like neither from there or here feeling right like you go back to the island and you have like a strong like accent when youre speaking spanish. So people dont see you as like a philippi state side and people read your full name, hyphenated like mine and like maybe see your the color of your skin and they dont read us all there. So i think also with the class awareness. She also had that sense of like not fully we longer and like anywhere which is why she was so highly adoptable and like, okay. Well if this person is not gonna read me as someone who belongs here, then im gonna like speak their language to ensure that they know like yes, i do belong in this club or do belong in like boston when i want to college or do belong and like, you know running for congress. So do you think that you know . That sense of being sort of part of Yorktown Heights, but not part of your accounts and being part of puerto rico, but not, you know puerto rican in in some ways, you know, is that advantages like is that like, you know, or is it also something that um one invites all kinds of attacks and makes her like alien to certain people and you know that this is the first time ive ever had this thought this exact way, but its like the opposite of privilege right when you have a lot of privilege you can just walk into the room and you can say this is who i am. These are my credentials and and this is my resume and you have to accept me on my own terms. Whereas a person like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez has to do keep putting on different mmm using different language for different constituencies for different people so that they will accept her. She said once about crowley, you know, hes not somebody whos ever. Cried in the walkin refrigerator because somebody asked for still instead of sparkling like that experience is so integral to who she is right and and yet like you know, were talking a lot about her flexibility and her adaptability in her sort of fluency, but i but also think that as andrea says like sergios faith in her which was a faith that she had and herself keeps her still from becoming a chameleon right . Shes the opposite of a chameleon too. Shes very strong. Shes very like this is who i am and im not wavering from that spot. Its just the way that she communicates this thats flexible. Not her. Identity in itself yeah, i would say like her moral compass if theres something that shes done is like her moral compass has not really shifted and like all this years despite the attacks despite like the backlashes. Shes received many times because i dont know like she did not do us symbolic boat in the same what the way that like some parts of the left wanna hurt to do i think that her moral compass is really strong and i would say like i dont see this sense of not belongings like an advantage, but i think that shes like a very strong person who is capable of turning pain into purpose. I mean, you know i because sergio had like all this big dreams for her and like one of the last things that he told her was like go make me proud before he died. Um, she did not feel for longest time like she was making him proud right like she was not working and the field that she graduated from she had student debt. She was a bartender in you know, like she was struggling like in many ways paying great like crazy Health Care Insurance plan for crazy health or Insurance Plan paying her student debt, you know. Being yelled out by customers who would want it like still water and she gave them sparkling. So for the longest time, i think that she did not feel worthy and it wasnt until like the Bernie Campaign that she really like was like, oh like actually i am worthy of like respect and im worthy of you know, having access to a lot of things that for the longest time. Our system has told us like we dont deserve because we did not work hard enough and i think those experiences were like very much formative and why her moral compass is still very like strong despite all the push and pull that we see her deal with in congress. Right because as you foreshadowed she does change in congress, right . She does adjust and do you think it was for either of you, you know, do you think shes lost any of that that moral sort of power that she had right at the beginning like when she was you know, really pure or or is it just being a smart politician . Is that how you wield power and you know . I think shes strategic and i think it goes back to i mean like some of the closest people to her including her partner come from a very like tech worldview, right . So youre always iterating and youre always shifting and youre always growing from your experiences. So i think that once she came into congress to realize like well the way im doing stuff may get the message out and may help shift that overt on window. She talks about right like making things that seem very radical of you years ago feel more normalized now like Something Like the Green New Deal but its not shes not getting any friends and to realize that if she wants to like do stuff and actually get stuff accomplished and have someone jevity. Shes gonna have to adopt. Um, and i i think that would everything would hurt is like it really depends from the lens that youre looking at her. Some people are gonna see it like i say hypocrisy and her being just like yet another audition and theres some people that will see it like well, maybe its the strategic and theres some people who are like, maybe its a little bit of both. And you know, the other thing is it could just be seen as a maturing process right . She came to congress and she was really young and she had never she had never been in congress before and she was elected on this platform of being an outsider by outsiders who believed in being outsiders and so they came into the congress and sort of with a lot of outsider swagger and they were empowered by that. I mean, that was what got her elected and i think there was a a moment where she started to understand that you cant be an outsider forever. Like youre just just by virtue of being a member of congress for two years. Youre no longer an outsider. Youre walking the halls youre eating lunch with people. Youre on committees. Like its very hard to maintain that status and and so she had to figure out. Um how to this kind of moral line because that is what is her sort of stock and trade right . Thats thats her currency. While also being a colleague being a colleague being being a player. And i dont think thats easy for her. I think its probably more comfortable for her to be an outsider. But you know, shes been reelected now. She has more money than almost any other member of congress. She has a lot of power not just in her. Number the number of social media followers she has but in the number of amount of money she can raise overnight. So so shes a kind of in those ways. Shes a more conventional politician than she was when she entered politics and she has to deal with all of that and i it cant be easy for her. She she has made some mistakes and she has also as andrea says made some choices that have really the left that the far left that elected her. I would say too that. Because she has some more compass one thing that really struck me when she started campaigning for bernie again in 2020 was that they had a little bit of conflict because of course his messages like medicare for all right, like thats what we want and then she had like, i think it was an interview where she said, you know, would it be the worst thing in the world if we dont get medicare for all but like we still get a public option which 10 years ago like was completely dead on water and i think that is just like a really like highwire act that i dont think anyone would want to be in her shoes. Like i know personally like you cannot pay me enough money in the world to live as her for like one day because shes just dealing with so many like pressures at the same time and you know like she has a ton of selfawareness like of you know, the her limitations i think but at the same time she Still Believes in the same way that said hell believe that she can do it. So there i think theres also a little bit of arrogance there that any politician should have if they wanted to what they do. So its its just like a very complicated life she lives and i dont think anyone would want to be in her shoes to be honest used to say she used to say early on after shed been elected and and sort of in the months after shed been elected. But before she was sworn in many like around the time of the sunrise protest she was saying over and over, you know, the maximum amount of power that a person can have to be able to say effort. And and i think thats what youre talking about andre. I think that this kind of like how do you imply how do you be a vested politician with a constituency in a lot of money in the bank and lots of people watching you and criticizing you and devoted to you and also retain the inner. Knowledge that at any point you can say effort. You know, she always drops these. Little hints that its its part of who she is. You know, she said a year or so ago like im gonna go and have a farm upstate and and what did she say like raised llamas or something . I dont think im not sure was right but like she does say over and over that there. Is this part of her that could just walk away at any moment and i think that gives her a lot of power that gives her a lot of her power. It certainly different from like the kind of power that joe crowley had which was just to you know continually amass more power more influence all for some, you know. Probably long term goal becoming like speaker one day right and like aoc doesnt use power that way in fact the way it seems like she can still be an outsider is to use her incredible fundraising and her incredible social Media Presence to basically make the Democratic Party more. More liberal more progressive right with these endorsements, you know pushing. Pushing the party further left and you know, what do we think about those efforts or how successful theyve been or a transformative . Theyve been i mean, i you know, i keep thinking about texas right . Shes had her eye on texas since before she was elected. She keeps saying. Were going to turn texas blue. Just watch just like watch it happen and and she said it again on the night that she was elected in the general election. She was giving her. She was giving her victory speech and that was the night that ted cruz. Be better or work and and that those results were playing in the background as she was giving her acceptance speech and she stopped her speech. And she was like were gonna were gonna turn texas in a generation. In this generation and when you watch what she the way she handled ted cruz during the failure of the electric grid last winter. When texans were freezing to death and ted cruz was going to to mexico on vacation with his family you all remember this. She didnt say anything directly to cruise. She merely raised. I dont know two Million Dollars five Million Dollars. I cant remember the number exactly just like a gigantic amount of money overnight. For texans who were freezing because there was no electricity and then she flew down to texas in the middle of the pandemic and gave out sandwiches and stuff. And you just think like the the images and the power that she was able to exert on this particular issue was so focused. And so aware of all of the optics what it was going to look like crew. She didnt have to say anything to or about ted cruz she could just do this and have everybody watching and and i mean, i just thought it was an incredibly effective use of her. Power um both in terms of raising money and in terms of motivating her social feeds to a cause. She can pick a politician and raise money for them. I mean its an incredible. Its incredible toolkit. I would say too that. Shes very conscious of the limitations of trying to change her colleagues like she has said before that if this was any other country in the world that did not have like a twoparty system someone like joe biden and her would not be in the same party. Um, so i think that she understands that like she can only push her colleagues so far what she can do however is start to move like again the overton window to make things more accepted like Something Like the grenadiel, um when by an organized all these committees right before the 2020 election to kind of like come up with plans for if it was elected. She was in the Environmental Committee with the Climate Change one with john kerry and the planet came out of it was basically a Green New Deal without the name gray new deal, right, so shes trying to make this idea more popular in order to then push like someone like joe biden to say like, okay maybe like the type of one that we want to include and like my presential platform, right, but its its like she cannot do it by herself like and i think a lot of people ascribe hurts so much like almost like messianic like power right . Like shes the one thats gonna save us like oh i mean lisa has said that before but in one of her first majors interviews after she wanted her primary, i think it was in the view. She was asked when she was gonna run for president and she was not of age to room for president , right . She had not even been it in office yet and people were just like projecting all of this and her and i think that you know, she thought i mean shes very powerful, but she i dont shes that interested and trying to change her colleagues. She just wants her colleagues to adapt to the times and the way to do that is to push out her message and like make a lot of like this very lefty ideas more popular with like a lot of other communities around the country not just new york 14. Well, i mean, i think even her you know sort of. Most vicious haters like have to recognize that you know, aoc is a force but what do we think like, you know . What are some misstep shes made, you know, shes you know, where she maybe. You know overstepped or or sounded a wrong note. What do you think lisa like . I mean, i think that there was definitely her first chapter in congress where she brought the justice democrats inside congress to run her staff. Know that you would call that a misstep initially because you bring who you know with you. But but her director of communications and her chief of staff were both. Basically the founders of brand of justice democrats and this real. Sort of antiestablishment antiinstitutional antitraditional take on what politics should be like neither one of them had ever really worked on a Political Campaign before or staff to politician before and and she was using them as surrogates. So when she didnt want to go on tv, she would put one of them on tv. She was violating all kinds of protocols within. On the hill and that kind of upstartness. Didnt go down well with her congressional colleagues. And she initially stood by them. These are the people who brought me to the dance. These are the people who got me elected. These are the people who know me best. These are the people i know how to work with. But there were a lot of people saying to her at that moment like this is not how you make friends here. This is not how you get stuff done. This is these people are not helping you. And and in the end there was a big conflagration with pelosi basically and and her side of the of the party the more centric side party and she had to let those guys go. And i think that that her letting them go wasnt acknowledgment that that kind of outsider brash. Were gonna do things the way we want. Were gonna were gonna primary people were gonna you know, its one thing to primary people when youre a challenger. Its a completely different thing to primary people when youre sitting member of congress. I mean, its just like the optics are different the dynamics are different the threats are different. Youre gonna primary somebody that youre eating lunch with youre probably gonna primary somebody who youre sitting on a committee with youre gonna primary somebody who who could be an ally to you. I mean, thats thats a whole all those dynamics are really really different. And so i guess i think that i wouldnt say that her bringing those guys into congress or was a misstep, but i that she was right to let them go and that she needed to assert her independence from them and from her bernie roots and from an assert her her own identity political identity. At a certain point and and to cut cut her losses, so that would be that would be one missed missed that i would. That i would i also think that like in terms of her messaging i can think of Something Like the met gala and her showing up to it. Its like something that you know, it didnt like a miscalculation. I think that she thought it was gonna be much more wellreceived at it was because i mean again like its about optics and and like, you know, yes, theres this sort of like fu element to where addresses this tax the rich to a super over rich like, you know, one of the most covered invitations you can get for certain industries, but at the same time, is it really that much of like a a few to them right if youre still like coddling with them and youre still like hanging out there like throughout the night. So i think that sometimes cheese pulled back a lot from her social media. I would say, um, i dont think that shes like clapping back as much as she was at the very beginning where they was like headline after headline after headline but like that to me feel kind of like im pre2020 alc move instead of like the move of someone who had already kind of like god a sense of how to play the Gaming Congress in a way. Yeah, i totally agree. I thought that was a sort of odd. Moment for her and sort of uncharacteristic for eric is normally she can balance those things really well also had maybe you know, i thought aoc and the progressive talk is in general like handled. Congressional negotiations over build back better and what im actually pretty well but in any, you know but then she did her and the squad didnt and end up voting against this big infrastructure package. Any kind of protest move that im not sure really, you know did much for certainly didnt do much for a constituents but like im not sure it ended up actually having an effect politically that she wanted. I dont know. Shes always weighing. I think shes always weighing. Her moral legacy against her pragmatic like pragmatic efficacy, right and and you know she is. She she loves barbara lee when she tells the story about how when she was entering before she entered congress. She reached out to barbara lee for advice and she said you know, how was it . How did you handle the hate from your congressional . Colleagues when you voted against the bill that would allow president s to basically declare war without congressional approval after 9 11. And barbara lee said Something Like you put your stake in the ground and you stand by it and you wait till everybody else comes to you. And so i i see her. The vote against bill back back better. She knew was going to pass. So it was in a way it was. It was putting her stake in the ground. And asserting her position in order to make a point and well see, you know, well see. Whether how that goes down over time. Okay, we have i think Something Like 10 minutes. We have questions from the audience. I can read them. Actually. That might be just very easiest. Heres a good one. I have deep respect for aoc, but i live in a republican area. Shes hated here. Does she understand that our ultra progressive ideas are deeply unpopular and large areas of the country and help to turn people away from the Democratic Party. So i can speak to this a little bit. Aoc has this vision which i respect but im not sure is achievable. And her vision is to assert an Economic Analysis of american class structure so well that gig workers in california and fruit pickers in the south and restaurant workers in new york and laid off factory and auto workers in the midwest. Who tend to vote republican all understand . That theyre being screwed by the same system and they conform. Coalitions together and and the original aoc the aoc who entered congress . Before the device of this of you know the last three years was an aoc who believed possibly naively that she could argue that all of these people have more in common. And they have difference and the race stuff has like just divided us in a way that is possibly it remediable. But but that is her night, true naive hope that she can argue to the laid off, you know auto workers and factory workers that they have more in common with a waitress in queens, and they think they do. And that they if they if they bind together they can make a movement, thats the idea. So i think she wants to talk to them. I think initially she she got into congress wanting to talk to them. I dont think that she i dont think she expected to become though like this symbol right . Like were like the Republican Party could just cease on anything that she said and they could just like throw whatever crazy thing and just say like this is what aoc and like the leftist. Im just socialists are saying um, and that was perhaps like a little bit of naive, but i also like i i mean, how could she have expected to become someone . Us hated us like someone like Hillary Clinton or nancy pelosi who have like a long history, right . Like there have been in the public eye for so long that of course, they become like this like, i would say empirical we call it like a google like this monster under the bed in a way and i i think thats when she came with those ideas that we can form this type of coalitions and create the sort of like consciousness among like people from different backgrounds. She did not really expect that. She was gonna become like such a target in which you know the ideas about her already pretty cemented and like the minds of a lot of these people and that definitely puts like a hamper on her political project, right . Okay, another question, whats she like in private . Well, we didnt meet her for this book, but i watched hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of video of her did. Did you meet her andrea . I better but it was so long ago and it was also very like in out half an hour interview, you know, very media train at that point. I i know you go ahead. Um, i think that shes like a very warm person. One thing that struck me from that knocked down the house Netflix Documentary from a few years ago is the way that she interacts with children to me. Thats a lot. Shes a type of person who like sits down and i you know has heard nieces hair and like talks to them very kindly so to me she seems like a very warm familyoriented person many ways tea like i mean have a cussing whose name is alejandra, which is pretty cool. So alexander and when i look at her family out look at mine is like, you know, the type of person who i think could be in like my circles pretty easily like a cousin a sister or Something Like that. Um, and the way that like she seems very warm very relatable. I think shes nerdy we see this in her playing like among us and you know how she talks about how she relaxed and everything and going again to like the point of like family oriented i her relationship with her mom and that i think or like the most important relationships in her life. Other than her partner now so that i think also tells you a lot about how she would be in private. I would say there are two there are two stories from reporting the book that stick out one is that when she was running through congress . Um before the primary she was going to these house parties and neighborhoods in new york 14. And she was at a house party in queens and she came early and she was hanging out and somebody spilled a glass of water in the rug and she could she like rushed to clean it up. And the people who were throwing the house party said like we knew then that she was really authentic like she was really real like this is a woman who grew up with her mom with her mom who was cleaning houses who worked in food service or most of her 20s for whom like a spilled glass of water is just something you clean up. Its just like she didnt even think about it. It wasnt a gesture of anything. It was just completely normal and a matter of fact and that was the thing that made the people who were hosting the party love her like shes really real. And then so thats so three things. Another thing. Is that she always she talks about how shes disarming in person. You know, shes become this avatar of ferocity and and you know, shes like a cartoon right . Shes like a cartoon hero type person, but in in in person people say that shes disarming like bull charming personable personal theres a video on she was she was doing instagram lives as a way to communicate to her constituents or followers after she was elected to congress after she was sworn in and in the spring of her freshman year. She was having extremely hard time. Everybody was hating on her about everything and she was alone in her, washington department. Eating fruit snacks and popcorn and putting together. An ikea table and and yeah and ikea table and shes just talking to the screen and if you can find if you can find that video it gives you such a wonderful sense of like what shes actually like because you feel like shes just alone. Shes having a hard time. Its after work. Shes living in an apartment with no furniture. Shes putting her furniture together. She likes putting as andrea says shes nerdy. She likes putting together ikea furniture. She likes little map and the directions and shes like joking about how she likes the map in the directions. And and theres something so vulnerable about her and so like exposed about her she just could be anybody like she could be. Anybody she could be somebody that you know, my daughter brings home from college. She could be a girlfriend of a relative like she could just be anybody in my life. So yeah. As we say just from reading the book. It seems like theres this very public facing side to her. And then also this very introspective very private side to her that i dont think like a lot of people see i think we probably have time for one more two minutes. Ill do a quick one. Whats the most surprising thing you learned about her . I dont know. Im gonna quote from andreas piece. Which is that she when she would go to puerto rico in the summers. She would ride her cousins horses without shoes. Right the flops. I just i just love the picture of her like living a life so different from the one that she is in right now. So i would Say Something that. That did surprise me is the warmth and which like people the people used to talk about her right . Like were so used to see her like the strong person or its just like creepy like persons gonna come to steal your country, you know, like all this very cartoonish versions of wheat, she is and theyre not true. So when you see how people who work closely together with her people from her child remember like some of our best friends that way that they speak about her just like made her to me. More we owe that shes felt for like a really long time and to me like in the process of like reading lisas wonderful biographical part of the book. It just felt very, you know, she could be anyone that you know, and i think thats that might be actually her superpower in a way. Well, this has been a great conversation. I have one really quick rapidfire question to end on wheres aoc going to begin 10 years. Where does she see yourself . You said that she thinks that you know anytime shes willing to and able to leave politics. What would it take for to do that and if she stayed in where would she be . What are her aspirations . Well, im gonna quote from my colleague rebecca tracer with the introduction to this book who has has said, you know, actually its pretty easy to see see where shell be in 10 years. Um, shell be a senator or shell run a media prior or shell be president or shell you know, shell have some extremely powerful and lofty. Political or political adjacent position. I think its much harder actually to see where shes going to be in five years. If she wants to have children. If she wants to have children and stay in congress. If she like how shes gonna navigate. On moving from being a wonderkind to being an established politician whose also a latina. Is a much harder . Is going to be a much harder transition and those are the years that i think we should watch really really carefully. And i credit tracer with that not myself. If anything you want to add anybody else. Um, i definitely agree. I also think that we dont know because we havent seen it be done before right like shes very much the first like female politician that we are seeing. Navigate very complicated questions about your life like the majority of women that coming to congress and the senate governors like their child reading years are behind there, right they if established themselves professionally like theyve done so much more before they get to the house of power in a way and this is the first time that we are seeing her like the first person were seeing navigate a lot of those complicated questions, and i think she has a lot of like that internal conflict in a way too like that desire just to run away and like use her power to say aphid. Its like i cant understand that and im here position. Um, so yeah, i think its gonna definitely interesting to to see where she goes from here. Well just have to wait and see. Well, i know go ahead please. Oh, ill be quick. I think shell probably be senator. I think Chuck Schumer started death that hes gonna shes gonna like primary him or something, but id love to you know, id actually love to see her be like mary new york city. I think that would be a very different kind of job and i think you know she could do something here. Wonderful, listen to fascinating conversation which we had more time. I havent had a chance to read the book. Im really looking forward to it in particular. Im curious to thank you curious to know so many things about are like how how people how she views herself as being unmarried not just with children without children, but unmarried and you know, this the halls of congress, but i look forward to the book is a general reminder to our audience out there. Ive placed the link to purchase take up space in the chat. Itll take you directly to the politics and pros website where you can purchase the book while youre there. I hope youll visit our events page. Wed love to see you in another event soon in the meantime. Thank you very much to our panel