now other guidelines thank you for your patience. thank you for following those. we havefo here today just sudden it's an arm to have them come t out. unable to have this event today judge is adjudged on the u.s. court of appeals since 2003. he was nominated by george w. bush. former solicitor general of ohio part of several rollers the subject of his new book. the occasion for today's event is the essential skill leah. that is the new book the judge edited another friend of ours that is been here about another book we are all about better this chapter. such son received his ba from williams college's law degree from ohio state university. he served as chair ofam the additional conference committee ongr the world of practice and procedure for his appointment position by chief justice roberts. he taught constitutional law and other legal subjects a number of universities teaching at several universities right now. one benefit to the pandemic is that we have zoom and other forms of online education for students are able to have judge sutton as a professor up without him having to be there present in person. that is a tremendous benefit to the legal academy at larger judge sutton thank you for being here today. justice tran seven influence on you. thank you for being here today. it's great to be here at live not on zoom. i'm really glad we're here cautious and so forth. i have a lot of fond memories coming to montgomery. fill in a lot of ways is of my career got started here. soon after i left the ohioft flow-through's general office prior hired me too handle several cases in the supreme court. happily he did not yet have a solicitor general. that was meant when the u opportunity. at that position been filledr any earlier i'm not sure would have happened in my career. i was really fortunate to get to know bill and so many fine people in the alabama attorney general's officee it's a lot of fun for computer a lot of fun to come back. i've been thinking about because we've been talking a lot of the book with other people. who's talking to someone the otherbe day to think this is been influential since he died when he was when he was living. that's an odd thing that be? what mike explained the impact he is housing in 192 so will part of the conversation with the courts, and capitalism. my own path to skill leah offers a little bit of an explanation. a little clever so forgive me. i came for three for. my first give you times to law school in 1987 potatoes mainly a political progress made me think of progressive direction. i started making by the time i graduated. if it happens that i read the book tempting of america. enough to get a clerkship at the supreme court for the offer was just a spout a retired test cracks. i went to work for justice cal ia. that would not been your first guest. the whiteness of the 1991 i wanted to work for this justice? this is something i think most law students can understand. the judge myself is visually not a lot of fun. that's where a lot of lawyers acquire the habit of drinking more coffee than is good for them. they struck charles dickens novels. caffeine is what gets you through. when you come across a justice a lia stood out for the liveliness of the rating the quest for truth. i could have cared less with the justices of textiles, a living constitution supporting originalist to do was one from noticing like a lot of fun. really wanted to enjoy the wicked witch of course unrealistic but working with the course easy to follow underr his influence because of race case for the session the writer wanting to be a writer expensive. this isn't the court committed to spend 30 year old, case look for something forcefully to monthly. that is a really good point. until now and bring the introduction to this book it was hard for me too embrace contextualism and individualism. courts. byy this influence? i think it has something to do with the power of ideas. boy, is not a bad thing to know if you can have some good ideas learn how to express them will have some influence. quick suggest escapement was very fine the importance of maintaining friendship of differing viewpoints. i'm wondering how squared his competitiveness with his collegiality on the court your grades as a clerk for him and your experience customer quick center for sin competitiveness, corporate law clerk that here was a place that was her twice according to this day i was a little puzzled by it. the point. forgive my pride. trimmer. it was so funny to me from the start of things that he expecteded to who would give him some games because he did not. why a person think they be a 30 year old person in squash when thet new 54 year old person wasn't pretty good athlete and an okay lawyer, well i think that way? is that he could do anything. i just love that about him. he thought if we decide the next thing we're going to play golf, nonclinical display for casie murder decision which was a really amazing opinion applicable. he would do better. you're exactly right when you read these opinions really very three agreement for the hunger . the deceased technical support. going to read his distant and that he was the bni with was whether they had to offer coke sexual education they. approximate. but, susan please is for friends for this are. i say when i was suspicious as a friendship of convenience ship or it wouldn't hurt to have friends across the use? use. about vectored a celebrated new year's together three of convenience new year's. they were happy and willing to talk. so what was maybe a brief faithful. her voice. big laugh out of. understanding is just laughing. something going on this last face-to-face dresses that will be the spring. i go by the justice chamber to say hello dozen roses on the table it's a birthday present roses. more than 30 years i think a given her total of 24 roses to my wife. the wiseguy clinic will try to find. that was of noxious and i hated giving him the last one with what they have all these bruises questions about her 24 roses that you are the one case of any consequence you got her vote. he said with a lot of sincerity something similar important votes important votes. every thinking man said. in the last roses she got. that was before he died over 2016 that was before and i told her that start for the book came out. she sent me a lovely note that how much she misses the roses. that was a sincere friendship. the return to each of their spouses, the object of it. it is not a bad lesson. quick to mention his writing style earlier. justice makes a point in her book when ever delete a minister for the first thing she did drop what she's doing and reset alike. for language and natural fighting? he was right about phenomena. after the court. the corporation ago. clearly what was going on. what is this come from? i wondered this hero's cooking for him. for one thing wanted to hear both going to acquire rick? he did have some advantages. his father was a professor of languages. he spoke several languages. that had his mother was an educator as well. maybe a chocolate not just that translation. it helps i don't. i will say this right the other day about it and found myself wondering, wouldn't one reason he became such a great router is such a great speaker. when the fact. to a lot of in high school. the stage even say he can be a bit of a hand. i will say if you speak speak many times. really so comfortable he was on the stage of the move, throughout the and how to group capacity for pasting, and how it which would not be surprising that this veteran theater. we lookor for this read a lot of the service features. i even said to me earlier speak written from the earlier article three that might suggest there's something there. i say this for all of us to hear we are in and do a lot of writing. he used to say he hated writing you love having written. i think he said he hated it because he had a high standard for quality one was to be the last. i suspect he worked even harder on the bench. if you compare the circuit opinions to supreme court throughout most of race. but to me b something but something in the book is done. he brings to the occasion heating really hard on. i will tell you one other story which is consistent with your point about language, what instant in one case are the heroes cooking for him was my co- editor given him attractive for a little work at home gave a floppy disk disc evenings spent the next thing to something he had before he thrust said. the case is what i thought was going on. as may be somewhat optimistic procedure takes, your joy, his ascent gives us a dramatic reading the first great stuff i had done. it was all gone. maestro interpreted to old. also crestfallen amount. for votes connected to the first was a natural reaction? to do. we can read what i over looked as if he thanks it's a shakespeare soliloquy it is not. the group experience is what joy he took in written well. as he delivered his attention to the lines. he is writing to speak. often. those are some of. one of the actresses you might enjoy about the book because i work from about's i thought i give his focused expert for the key paragraph in this one. going to self. anticipates the problem of the both of the southerly. so when one since my evasive answerhe is this a poem about the justices writing his every encounter is a new encounter and has a freshness. in the 300 page book to speak. just press the feeling of her instead of 400 both over the two opinions to actually make long as opposed to complaining that someone else making love, i think to jody's he had plenty of reading i think quite correctly crawford first about the confrontation clause case were crawford overrules which is a test to decide whether there's a complication " violation. very pragmatic historical textual. i may write s this seven -- two decision that's a lot of votes. it's very originalist. he's got conservatives, liberals joininges him. he is of course proving it's a criminal procedure case of ritualism is not inherently think of the government. quite the opposite. this is one of many criminal procedures. so fascinating became one of thel leading criminal procedures office of the opinions of the patient. expect he liked that opinion. i let that opinion. to illustrate original with this relief designed to get to neutral outcomes and rule-based approach. this is about policy. there's another one or closer. i think he took joy in the fact that all my numbers of the court were engaged in the original inquiry. it was not the case with five members are doing on the original is in the other for a written constitution wasn't part of my original is in. that meant something to him. but of course merciful counsel case great lines lines. ini like that piece really clicked decision. justice frank was probably as close as the corporate majority. separation of power he might derivative in the country at that point.ca truth is the current hitting distance one can you go oh my gosh, who's going to want to get along. this is someone who thanks there's a truth. star define a trigger. the quote from holden will have a on center because of the number of opinion but because of the way he wrote his dissenting opinions. i'm curious if you will still that title from justice holmes. what is important to register his opinion? requirement to hear that. first salute going to go into that was wrong was not his thing. individualism led themselves to compromise. he used to say how do you compromise? you have a right answer you only compromise is denying the right answer denying the truth. he didn't think he could do that. i think itor was one reason he erwasn't afraid to dissent or concur. he would concur separately a lot provide his own reasoning. i don't think he liked it in one sense. i think he was very disappointed early on. i was there in his fifth or sixth year on the court that fear of casie and the abortion case the establishment clause graduation prayer case. let me just tell you one thing i can promise you he was not happy to be writing those opinions. those were devastating losses to him. not so much because competition he wanted to win he didn't think they were good grades in think they're good for the country. he is one person a nine-member court. in one sense i still think you be happy with the moniker. this gets back to another with thinking about it which i think he would embrace. i think he learned early on the court probably starting around that term he realized he wasn't just writing for other lawyers pretty is not just writing for his colleagues. he was not just writing for lawyers in the case of the party agrees not writing for the supreme court bar. he realized pretty early on this may havety affected his writing style. his audience was the one. so back to me again. that was his audience that he wanted to write so that when people -- and if they could not take of the us reports they were going to be there. the professor is not teaching his dissent it would be known in the majority in the student could read or they were teaching at that have to come to grips with it. so i think for him that was a way to feel a little better about cases they were disappointed. they came out the wrong o t way. i personally charge for quite aa while i'm such a fan of the speech of the judicial branch we have to explain why we are just what we are doing with separate concurrence sharpens the opinions. they didn't make them good enough. good enough widow met joining his opinion. he didn't make them better. he used to say in communions at the court he would bring all his clerks back once a year in the spring. i think it was the first saturday in may every year. that clerk class would present to him what it finally become the u.s. reports volume just with his opinions and each year he would tell you that was a good or bad year, what was it good year, a very and volume he was not writing a lot of dissents, concurrence. adhere very thick volume. i happened to be there for a very sick year. i was not a very good clerk. i should point out something, ed whelan we clerk the savior that how we got to know each other. and has been at the center of this. this is a third volume. ed and christopher added the first two the first one was speechless kind of generic and understandably on faith and this went on law. i only came in for this one. one of those weeds counted two of us and he said something person quite understand and he goes it is my knight errant let me's value for that might knight who has looked after me. and he was not referring to me. he was referring to ed whelan. now i think about it he just ignored me. lack does not make me feel very good. ed has been a defender of his work. just as much backbone, just as uncompromisingom. everybody needs a friend like that. ed whelan has been that kind of friend of him. claxton has done a lot of good work anyone who follows nose out on top of things he is. i get my news from ed before i get from anyone else. lecture doing the same thing your complement him and not me back have you not got the sense of how sensitive i am to that? it was a compliment. as do you, as do you. i am making fun of myself. justice is often called the founder of original is in. that sort of suggest a ritualism was not a mode of judging that existed before. i don't think that is with the justice thought of t it. i was not doing anything new but i amny curious are there particular legal minds are lsschools of thought influence him people he refer back to there were before it had a name? quick's is a great question. he would have agreed with you one 100%. he did not invent a ritualism textualism. and whenid would say that would be missing his point or his key point. his key point is judges have always been using textualism to result if youth is going the last 67 years he would call them about card approaches to interpretation had developed. for him the whole goal was to get us back to what we are doing. there's a lot of historical support for that point great go to the initial judicial review decision known as talking about living constitution. that phrase does not come around for very long time. thee document has it fixed meetings. this put f in writing, they put in more language the language has meaning. it is rare that meaning is not meant to be fixed. you are quite right about that. as to the people he admired i think he shared a lot with frankfurt. very disciplined about what they are doing. it is so interesting that frankfurt or the progressive liberal help down the aclu. the new republic. comes on the court and resists to living constitution was. to get a sense for that. ford administration, republican, crime comes in he comes to opposite places because again following the law work takes you. i think there's a lot of overlap there. i took have a sense how much cheaper light on for opinions. he filled the same seat as justice jackson. he was in that seat before he became there's quite a bit of affinity such a lovely writer. and of course justice scalia cared about his writing. projects in your call more of us are originalist. maybe not quite as disciplined. i would guess the surprise be the two key ones. i was going to like homes for a few things to be pretty skeptical of some others. but that might be the answer. cracks as we sit here today justice amy coney barrett just joined supreme court was confirmed i am curious your own nomination process. givert? little bit different time i'm curious what was your process like and did you ever get any advice or did he have any comments about that? roxie's utterly unhelpful. i think it was even worse. he got confirmed 98 -- zero to the u.s. supreme court. that is the high one. i'm on the junior varsity court 52 -- 41. fifty-two votes that's going for a b. you miss one a couple but she don't get any credit. it is so fascinating justice ginsburg she was 96 -- three roughly. boy things have changed i do not know what to say. i will tell you what justice would say one of the opinions excerpt in the book this is dissent the 92 abortion case. most of that opinion has nothing to do with abortion. most of that opinion i think guys we are going to embrace the idea that by members of a lifetime tenure court and nine member like tenured court gets to decide what rights are not mentioned in the constitution we are really asking for when it comes to politicizing the court. this is a crown jewel of american government. brown versus board of education. other important milestones in american history. there are times we need that court. we need the people to think of that is it a political neutral court. and said that was the warning shot the canary in the coal mine. and timmy look at her last presidential election fight too many accounts to deny turned on enough americans treating a boat president of the united states as a proxy to fill one seat on a nine-member court. you spend the rest of your like reading about 1776 you'rene not going to find anybody saying they're going to break from england so we can create a like tenured nine-member court that can make the key decisions in american to society that would've been laughable. we would have stayed with britain effective in the plan. this happened over time. you do have to wake up and realize it's really important for the court to be engaged in something that the american people can say is law.nc that is based on principles outside of their own policy preference outside their own worldviews. our grounded in something the principal, the people did. that is something the agents want. that is why the justice push support for original is ever the people who got the constitution. they are the ones having these particular statutes written the way they were written. judges are supposed to do the best they can to honor this compromise and leave it at that. and people do not like it. he said and in my case they are free to change. they usually do that democratically. old george jones country music song we are in alabama judge. it's called who is going to fill their shoes. you may knowhe it. me.ive i actually like neil young that's the worst thing to say. i won't sing it. but who is going to fill issues indifferent to who is going to fill a seat with her as as defendant answer. who's going to fill his shoes? how do such a great question. there isn't really good answer, no one should try to be likee him. he would not want anyone to be like him. he and justice ginsburg would say the same thing. they are not in control. they do not own the seats. they did the best they could with their time on the court. he knows how to handle prior conflicts. get insight on future conflicts. and it's time for somebodyic else. that is really, really healthy. very terrific judge in the seventh circuit gave a graduation speech a few years ago i felt for these kids here they got the graduation speech only about s law. it's a great speech onehe of the points he made was you could put nine clones on the u.s. supreme court. nine suppose it people just like justice. they would still t disagree. lawyers are lawyers. this is hard stuff. i'm going to find ways to separate them or look at the fdr corporate fdr put eight members on the corporately person he did not put on the stone who's a fellow traveler. you can't be too sure the next justice is not going to happen. i think what is interesting is he did lay down some markers. maybe this is the very best thing he did as a judge. and maybe the thing i try to do most of my capacity as a judge, the girl knew what his scorecard was. which is another way of saying he let the world know how he should be judge. that is what matters. we can look at it and say that is following, that is following original is in. or you look at it and say wait a second that does not look as original as i am used to seeing. that becomes a fair point of criticism. we have new justices we will all be having a justices. they may or may not have scorecards. i hope they do. if they do justice barrett because she's in our ritualist and contextual list pretty strongly suspect you have no problem with the american people judging her decisions on that scorecard. now whether they like them that is the really misleading thing in american law, what you like isst always in the constitution. that of course is not how this works. what in the constitution is pretty easy to figure out. go read it in the 27th and that meant something so they some are not. y and if what you like is not there put in a statute or amend the constitution. you can't just say i like something different must be in the constitution is never going to be the justice and i strongly urge anyone who is trying to be another one that now is the time to stop. that would be doable. i think you could beat them in squash. i will open this up to questions from the floor. please feel free to go to the microphone. as you are doing that i have one final question for you if styou cannot answer this question that's okay i understand it. somewhat of a personal question. just curious which is a better ball conference big ten or sec? you are in alabama. it is really funny. let me tell you the way some people. i have an opinion on this question. you sit big ten sec. we in the big ten and sec think we need a little self-awareness here. people are not from those conferences do not care for us. i did not care for us in the fall and maybe that is too much great care enforcement talk about college football that i'm very confident. somebody outside of these conferences they get the question which you prefer the sec or the big ten, will be something like this, this reminds me of world war ii who would you rather see lose? and that is a hard question. that is the vantage point of the rest of america now. i am not the rest of america this is an easy one. i'm trying think of a polite way to save and passg being polite. i don't see the sec is johnny come lately he's been doing it for centuries you guys were doing it forens decades. i will say if you measured not by decades but by years you have been doing pretty well and must acknowledgeee that. we can think of one game against sec team that went pretty well. maybe the real way to put it in i should remember i am a guest remember i am a guest i did hear a lot of ohio state coaches saying over the last couple of decades i'm a big high school football and it can be the difference whether happy or sad on a sunday. i am a very big football and one of these obnoxious fans. i watch a lot of ohio state football coaches the last couple of decades. they were saying things are all about modeling the program after sec programs. got to do something they are doing. to speed this issue for a while i, that is a complement. but that's the last nice thing i'm saying about sec. he signed a book for me once i will make sure to show that to judge. he won't enjoy that he will enjoy that. their questions please come to the microphone i will repeat them for the benefit of the camera. : : : questions than we can wrap up. any questions? >> i'll ask myself one. [laughter] i noticed a bunch of people here from state court systems and state government, that was my introduction to montgomery in alabama working with the state attorneys general's office, getting to know the state courts. one question you might ask, whether justice go you have thoughts about one of my hobbies is, state constitution about state constitutions or in a different way, were there areas where justice scalia, justice brennan agreed, justice brennan kind of the leading a liberal decades of the court and the flagburning case is one in whichus they join but one that might be surprising to people is justice brennan in 1977 wrote a landmark article about the importance of constitution, constitution,giving litigants ae to win with just the federal constitution. something most people don't realize is justice scalia supported that as well in his last majority opinion in the court. he made the point states are free to experiment with the state constitutions and often do. you might be quitting close to a biblical truth. that's likely right on. and so, to me that's a good way of pointing out the state constitutions are worth remembering into people in alabama think that's true. to the forefront of the legal education and reminding people of how important the decentralization process is and how important the state constitutions are under the state constitution, and i think that's an important work and i personally appreciate your work in this regard. i guess i will close this out by thanking all of you who've come today. we have a number of judges and public officials. thank you allll for coming. i am always encouraged by your presence b and interest in the program so thank you very much and i look forward to. thank you for doing this and for a round of applause. [applause] >> the world changed in an instant, but mediacom was ready and we never slowed down. schools and businesses went to virtual and we powered a new reality because we are built to keep you ahead. now it is my pleasure to introduce doctor monique the smithsonian undersecretary for education. an institutional educational priority she oversees the smithsonian collective initiative, communication strategies and funding for programs that benefit learners of all ages. there's many years of public education and experience to the smithsonian before joining us in june she served as the vice
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