Transcripts For CSPAN2 Ernest Hemingway 20170625

Well, good morning, and welcome to the 33rd annual Chicago Tribune printers row lit fest. Id like to start by giving a special thank you to all of our sponsors. Todays program is being broadcast live on cspan2s booktv. Were going to have a few minutes for questions at the end of the presentation. The audience will have to line up at the microphone to your right, and well let you know when the time comes. Before we begin todays program, please make sure to silence your cell phones and turn off your camera flashes. And with that, id like to introduce our moderator, a Acclaimed Television documentary host, producer and news anchor, bill kurtis. [applause] mary, well get right into it. Yes. [laughter] i should have a moment of explanation. You may be expecting three people up here. Stacy keach will not be with us today. On opening night, a oneman show about Ernest Hemingway, last week, i believe, he had a heart attack on the stage. It was one of those strange things that just, in his words, created a fog in which he didnt know where he was in the play, and for 50 minutes being old school and the tough hemingway kind of character, he plowed through trying to find himself. His good friend, director bob folds, when they came and ended the show, he went to the hospital and was diagnosed with a mild stroke. But he is find now. Fine now. And vows to come back in 2018. So well have to put stacy keach off til then. But Mary Dearborn is the author of a a new book called Ernest Hemingway, what else . She is noted for having a street in chicago named after her, dearborn. [laughter] [applause] but she was also particularly important today because this is the first bio in 15 years, the first written by a woman, the first to explore [applause] yeah. [laughter] [applause] its the era of women, isnt it . There you are, thats the thing. But, mary, im, you know, were all such fans. I was, i lived in oak park, so hemingway and Frank Lloyd Wright were our two heroes in oak park, illinois. How lucky were we . And theres been so much written that, you know, its sort of like the guy telling the old joke among comedians, theyre so familiar with it, well, tell me number two or tell me number three. Right. And they all laugh. So what i would like you have such detail about these heroic moments that were familiar with. Id like to ask those, but also some new revelations about his Mental Illness, suicide. But well kind of coarse the river to that end. So can you tell us a little bit about the rather mild upbringing at oak park high school. Well, yeah. Its a great town. I gather it was the first suburb or one of their first suburbs, sorry. What i found so interesting was it was ec by distant from chicago and the des plaines river. There he is, his father would go out to the river and shoot things for dinner. So he was, you know, on the edge of the wilderness, and chicago minute a lot to him. He lived here several, in the city, for several years, two years. He was not particularly a big athlete, was he, in high school . No. Strangely, a lot of things that you expect to be part of this hemingway, this mythical hemingway just arent there. He was terrible at team sports. He didnt really, he liked boxing. He played tennis, which nobody really knows, but he wasnt particularly good at it. So you dont hear much about that. But, no, he wasnt. And the other thing that people expect to go with the territory is that he would be a womanizer, right . That he was a babe magnet or, you know . And he wasnt, first of all. I think beyond he had four wives. Beyond the four wives, i think he only had about six sexual encounters total. And we just think of him as being, you know, some kind offing, don juan, and he really budget. Well, there were a couple and he really wasnt. Well, there were a couple visits in cuba that you mentioned. Marlene dietrich and ava gardener. Oh, yes. My god, you know in. [laughter] there are a couple books right there. [laughter] and ava called him papa, and he called her daughter. Yes, yes. So but sex there was a little stable of women that he had that included twin peeks, dietrich p twin peaks, dietrich, garbow. He flirted with them, and they called him papa, and he called them daughter. You know, he kept that barrier up as much as he did. But he married the journalist. He did, finally. He had two journalists you know, three journalist wives. Well, he was off in michigan hunting and fishing with his dad. There were early signs that his dad had problems. Yeah. His father, depression really coarsed through the family. And his father had a couple of bad depressants, and then in 1928 theres a photo that i love of ed hemming hemingway in a suit look looking at ernest with the most admiring but befuddled look. And hes swimming in his suit, hes so up this. Hed lost tons of weight. And he killed himself two months after that. The quality of the depression is something we dont most of us cant even imagine because it was really a sigh accountic depression. Psychotic depression. The example was ernest, at the very end of his life, he was on his way to the mayo clinic in a little plane, and it stopped to fuel. And he had tried to walk into the propeller. Like, thats psychotic suicidal depression. I dont know if the word psychotic is accurate, all i mean is that it was really beyond real, it was real. Yeah. And very hard to get back from. Maybe the more interesting character is his mother, grace. Now, she was bisexual . I think so. I mean, she was a happy, you know, she raised a family, six children. Pretty good marriage, though hemingway felt he, that she was she was a very strong woman. But, yes, she had a lesbian affair with a boy student came to live in the hemingway household as a sort of au pair, and grace seemed to have fallen in love. And as you can imagine it, the whole family, it nearly tore them apart. Especially her husband. And it died down. The affair continued, and actually after ed hemingway killed himself, ruth was married briefly. And then they lived together until graces death in 1951. So, you know, we dont, we dont, we dont have absolute proof, but there are letters between them and letters between ed and her, so i guess she was. Now you mention, i believe, or suggest or insin wait, i dont know [laughter] that ernest had some gender problems himself later on. Yeah. I dont know if id call them problems. At the time they would be seen as problems. He was interested in kind of gender boundaries and the slippage between genders. Theres a book published posthumously called the garden of eden, and thats about he was obsessed with androgeny. And the husband and wife cut their hair or he had a hair fetish to be the same length. And then they switched sexual roles in bed with another woman. He never planned to publish that in his lifetime. I mean, he did and i dont all of his wives he played games with, but actually whats relevant is the story of his youngest son, gregory, who became, he was a lifelong transvestite. And he became a transsexual at the end of or he had this surgery at the end of his life. Very sad story, he died in the drunk tank of a womens prison. But thats outside my biography, right . Except that whats in it is that ernest knew about it. When greg was 13, ernest and his fourth wife, mary, fired a cuban maid because mary was missing some of her underwear, and they found it under gregs bed, under his mattress about four months later. He admitted it, he had all his life he had no, you know, problem with it. But for ernest, for, you know, we dont need to know more about gregs life except that for ernest to know that when his son was 13 and heres this image the ultramacho, mans man, and he was living with this son, with this knowledge about his son. Its just fraught. Yeah, its crazy. We would call that the story that you did not, we would call that today timely. [laughter] especially for radio and television. When did he begin to create this macho image . When did he begin to create it or was it created for him . Be really, i mean, its all happening together. And theres no question he did, i mean, he was a hunter and fish, serious fisherman from a young age. Got into deep sea fishing. I think marlin was the real love of his life sometimes. Was a bullfight aficionado. All those things, it started happening about the same time. And i think he did participate in it at first. But then it started to grow up around him x i think it did, i think it did tremendous damage to him. Just to show you the amount of detail in marys book, the old man and the sea, they were filming the movie, he was consulted as an expert. They went out to catch a marlin [laughter] they couldnt get one. Just when you want it, its never there. So they had to go down to chile. Off chile to catch the marlin. Ernest said no money with a rubber fish ever made money. [laughter] also the other detail is if youve ever been to cuba, you will go directly to the florida [inaudible] where allegedly, as a matter of fact, i think bacardi now claims that hemingway invented the daiquiri. And so you sit there and you drink the daiquiri. In fact, its not the classic daiquiri. He had two jiggers of rum, no sugar, and he called it papa doble. Thats right. Grapefruit juice. Grapefruit juice, he had it in. So im going to try that. I think the lack of sugar meant that you could consume more of them. [laughter] a sweet drink you cant well, he was trying to find limit, god knows. Yeah. The world war ii. So he comes to the ritz hotel and encounters, you know, paris. Yeah. And goes up and hes swinging around a machine gun. So i go into the bar, being a fan of hemingway. I like the hemingway drink. It was terrific until i got the bill. Oh. [laughter] i think it was 35 for, you know at that time, which was years ago. [laughter] were those true . Well, a lot of the stories about world war ii arent true. Hemingway sometimes claimed that he liberated paris [laughter] what he really liberated was the ritz bar. [laughter] but, yeah. I mean, war stories, what can i say . More of them sprung up around him, as you can imagine, than even in other actually, theres a lot of war stories about the various corps or respondents, the reporters in the war the correspondents. There were rumors about how he tortured german soldiers that are just completely out off thin air. And thats something that started happening around him, and sometimes hed come to believe it or believe these legends. Its another example of the legend itself rearing up and butting him. Coming back. Yeah. Im going to jump through a number of subjects just to fill in. Africa. He went there a lot. Yeah. It seems. And during the famous accident, the crash, he was going to take was it mary . Yes. Mary. And this was her gift. Right. And the gift was to fly down into uganda and, you know, sight see. And when the plane went for a third time over the falls on the border of uganda and maybe kenya yeah. Why, it crashed. He that really, that really almost finished him. He injured probably every organ in his body. But the worst thing is he woke up and there had been cerebral fluid from his ear. So he was in very, very bad shape. And this was on top of another, of a lot of head injuries. He never really came back from that. They thought he was dead, you know, that fantasy you have the headlines, papa dies actually in the paper. Yeah, yeah. So, but he came back. He was a very diminished man. It seems like that was the beginning of the end. Sorry. Teddy roosevelt went down to the river in south america, went through the same struggle. And they attributed an early death to that. Really . Yeah. Really . But here was hemingway, that was his fifth concussion. Yeah. And it must have contributed to alcoholism and Mental Illness. I think so. He had serious concussions, and every time he got up well, one famous time he was in london during early world war ii, and he was in a centrallylocated hotel, i cant remember the name. But his room was like party central. And everybody brought in bottles, and hes drinking. I mean, he drank right on top of these. And, of course, he had to get out of bed then because dday was the next week. But they were, they were serious, and i think today we dont know much about traumatic brain injuries. Theyre always different. The prognosis is different and so forth. And then they have that im forgetting the initials, but the Football Players cte. Yes. Where its cumulative effects of all those cop cushions, and thats concussions x thats really dire. Yeah, alcoholic, he had these brain injuries, and he was on a lot of prescribed medications that in different combinations and, you know, the usual thing when theres a lot. And he had some physical problems like Blood Pressure and so forth. On top of alcohol, on top of he was overweight. Yes, he became he was always big, but he became, yeah. So it, but not in the last year of his life. His biceps were said to be 18 inches around. And then when he was an old man, he was just gaunt. Before we get to the suicide, so were pretty hard about ernest giving you an insight that, frankly, i did not know. He also was, would you say, a genius . He changed the way we write in america. So elegantly simple, in your words. Absolutely. You know, right. I think he probably is the greatest american prose writer. And, you know, hes no, i think he was absolutely a genius. He didnt, he wasnt consistent. I think that some of the things that were wrong with him caught up with him toward the end, after world war ii. But in his last year he wrote or put together a movable feast, which some of you have probably read. Its a memoir about paris. And if you know anyone going to paris, give it to them. That he put together as a charming book. Beautifully written in the last year of his life. But he, he he lost the faith in his ability to keep writing. Thats a key. And so sad, because after with all his problems, he he lost confidence, didnt he . He really did. He really did. It was very sad. One of the he has a story, the snows of kilimanjaro, about its so autobiographical about a writer who has so much to write about, he said. It was his duty to, you know, he had seep all these things had seep all these things, he needed to write about them and he didnt. Thats one of the real tragedies. Imagine if he had kept on writing. Or kept on living, rather, and what he would have made of, say, vietnam or the new journal itch, you know . Journalism, you know . Its just, its really sad. Without all his problems yeah. Kept on writing. Yeah. And i dont know, im not sure he could have been helped. Bullfighting. [laughter] [inaudible] sorry im not pronouncing it correctly. Oh or yeah. He was genuinely friends and enamored with the matador. Absolutely. He loved the bullfight. He loved fame. And, you know, he reported on the spanish civil war. He was always and he was heart broken that he couldnt live in francos cuba. I mean, spain. But, yeah, i think he said its the closest you can come to war without your being end dangered. Finish engagerred. Endangered. Its like going to war. And, you know, he thought, he was fascinated by death, and death is a big part of the bullfight. Im not an to officionado. He was direct canned by Gertrude Stein of all people who said youve got to see it, its made for you. Yeah. She, obviously, was a big influence on his writing. She was. And she had a lot in common, strangely enough, with his mother. He was the same build, massive she was the same build, massive and lesbian. And the same kind of charisma that they all, that hemingway and his mother shared. They were said to be those people who sucked the air. People said that about each one. They suck the air out of the room when they enter it. Theyre just really commanding people. Handsome, pretty, amazing. What was his problem with women . [laughter] i think its kind of a red herring. I think, you know, he wasnt very good to his wives, thats for sure. But i dont think he had animosity toward women with. I think somebody who understood humanity that well, its impossible for them for him to yeah. But he has, and the one short story that you might have read in school, its a guy and his girlfriend, and hes talking to her about having an abortion. And its incredibly sensitive to her, to him, to the issue. Its not easy, you know . You know, i think he wasnt that into creating great women characters, but i think its a red herring. You talk about sensitivity and then he would explode at times in one of his moods. Just one thing jumped out at me that patrick, he was pretty hard on patrick. Patrick was very ill, and he slept outside his room. Well, patrick had a traumatic brain injury. He had a concussion. And it took a horrible form. This is his little son. And hes 18, and he went crazy. And they, hemingway and the servants and some, hemingways friends had to hold him down. Ernest wouldnt put him in an institution because he was so violet that he thought violent that he thought the attendants would hit him. So they and hemingway slept on a palette outside his room. Lasted about six weeks. Strangely enough, this is traumatic brain injury for you. He was, he had some shock treatments, and he was absolutely cured. Never came back. So, but hemingway, yes, he was a heroic he was heroic, you know . When he was called to be when he stepped in. Toward the end hes living in idaho, kind of moves to catch em, and i was moved by the psychotropic drugs. He was being treated. He had electric shock yes, many. They went to mayo x it was pretty intense. But he knew it, everybody knew it within his circle. And that was pretty fast slide, wasnt it . Yeah. And nobody i think this happens a lot with mentally ill people who arent in everybody thought minute else was taking care of it or hoped that somebody else. And he was taking competing drugs. He was on something that was the equivalent of author zien, which is really hard core. It was heavy duty, but they didnt, there were all kinds of other not all kinds, its not like today, but there were a few other antidepressants that they never tried on him. And they believed him when he said im better, i want to get out. And he went home from the mayo clinic. Thats when he tried to walk into the propel or hour. But they sent him back. And the shock treatments do make you lose shortterm memory, so he became convinced hed never be able to write once he thought hed lost his memory. Thats to certainly a downer. What was the Biggest Surprise in your vast research about ernest . You know, there were subsidiary surprises. I came to the like one of his wives, pauline. Some of you might have read the paris life, the novel by paul mcclain. Its about Hadley Hemingway which was, thats definitely his most romantic marriage x. Its commonly thought that pauline came in because she had a lot of money and stole him away. But its not that wasnt the case. And, in fact, ernest took no responsibility for that at all, you know . In fact, hadley finally brought it up. She said i know youre having an affair with pauline, and he exploded. He said if you hadnt brought that up [laughter] wed be future. We could just continue wed be fine. Wed continue. So it became hadleys fault. Anyway, pauline was a wonderful person. The poet, elizabeth bishop, said she was the funniest person she ever met. Theres a story, can i tell a short story about pauline . Please. Ernest eventually divorced her for wife number three, and ernest and pauline had two sons together, patrick and gregory. And it was time for a handoff of the children, you know . So pauline wrote him a letter detailing how this was going to happen, and then she tore it up into little pieces and put it in the envelope and sent it. So if he wanted to know how to get the kids, he was going to have to [laughter] now, thats creative. Did he ever put it together . I have no he would have to, wouldnt he . Sure. [laughter] now, cuba is one of the suggests of a recent television, not a documentary, but, you know, entertainment. And it was up and down. It was explosive and sweet. But it began to give us, again, another picture of Ernest Hemingway. Yeah. You know, we were getting so dark here finish. Yeah, i know. Everybody had that different view of Ernest Hemingway, i hope you didnt come expecting well, remember, he wrote a movable feast in his last year. But cuba was both, you know, it was he lived on a hilltop estate outside of havana. It was a beautiful place, you know, all tropical flowers and a swimming pool. He wasnt hugely wealthy, but it was and he wrote well there. But he was really isolated. You know, i he lived always far from the centers of civilization. He never lived in new york. He never lived in he didnt stay long in chicago. He lived in key west which, i mean, its way down there. People go there. And then cuba, he didnt like being around other writers, i know that. And he loved the spanish language, and he felt comfortable in cuba. You know, the gulfstream was right there, so he could fish all the time. It was good and bad, but i think that isolation did him more harm than good. And, you know, he needed, he needed people to tell him, to tell when his writer wasnt going well or this was a bad direction. And, unfortunately, his editor scriveners, the legendary max perkins, he died. And ernest really did not hed published a book that im sure max perkins would not have let him publish. He needed outside voices, and he isolated himself there. And he took perkins death hard. He did. He did. He yeah. He didnt pauline, he said, was his best critic. And, of course, pauline he couldnt i think he lost the sort of guidance he needed to write. Max perkins was different with all his writers, and nobody touched a word except his spelling and grammar. You could not edit him at all. So max perkins didnt to that. He did that with thomas wolfe. What would he do [laughter] hes a character. Dont go in this direction. [laughter] hemingway was a terrible poet, and at one point he wanted scriveners to bring out a volume of his poetry. And it was only with great difficulty that they, no, i dont think so. [laughter] one of the things i did not know was he was, he actually wanted the nobel prize. And he would get up in the morning on the day of waiting for his name to be called. [laughter] and so he had a couple beat him, who was it, faulkner was one oh, yes. Who got in. And he got mad at faulkner for making some crack about his writing. Faulkner, apparently, said i completely understand. And ernest understood what he was saying. Faulkner said he doesnt, hes not really he doesnt try anything new. And he meant if you read faulkner, faulkners very experimental, consciousness of prose and things like that. Hemingway definitely did not do that. He had other his strength, his genius was elsewhere. He took offense, and then he i saw what faulkner meant. But, yeah, i think thats a dirty little secret that a lot of them are waiting on, you know, for their nobel prize except bob dylan. [laughter] hes the new standard. Yeah. [laughter] were going to open it up for questions here in a moment, but i told mary that i wanted to be selfindull gent, because i thought she would get to a wonderful end. I hope i can get through this. Two minutes, i swear to god, and no more. Mental illness coarsed through the hemingway family like one of the rivers ernest wrote about with such beautiful economy. Its incessant, implacable force only in small eddies where illness cursed individuals like ed hemingway, ernest, greg and later some in the next generation, and reportedly in those after that. It took and continues to take the form of cycles of mania and psychotic depression, alcoholism and other addictions and suicide. Many believe that three of ed and graces six children, half of them killed themselves. Acted and studied art history. One of ernests grandchild wrote a book that was nominated for a blitzer and a National Book award. These a pulitzer and a National Book award. Just as surely as Mental Illness and suicide. On a memorial to hemingways memory is an inscription that reads best of all he loved the fall. The leaves yellow on the cottonwoods, leaves floating on the trout streams and above the hills the high, blue, windless skies. Now he will be a part of them forever. Now, ernest wrote these about another sun valley friend, but in his last two years he wrote again about the fall, this time in paris in the 1920s. Another good time in another good place. You expected to be sad in the fall. Part of you died each year when the leaves fell from the trees and their branches were bare against the wind and the cold, wintry light. Yet fall, during that period of his life, with was beautiful for what would inevitably follow. You knew there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. [applause] let me see how much time we have left. Okay, we have a few minutes left. Questions, anyone . Yes, sir. Its unclear why hemingway left cuba [inaudible] other people say he was forced out by the u. S. Government. Do you have any insight or knowledge about that . Yes. Well, the government wanted him to leave before he did. I mean, they were saying its not safe for you. But castro, i mean, his house [inaudible] it was given to the cuban people. And he didnt, he was [inaudible] but there was no way he could live there. They had to leave, they went to idaho. And for years it was the property of the cuban people. They had it was very difficult for them to get out and get their things out. They had art, you know, and so forth. After Kennedy Administration stepped in to help them, thats why mow the hemingway archives is at the jfk museum. There was a connection there. He wanted to stay but it was impossible. Im going to [inaudible] castro loved hemingway. They would direct people to the hemingway house, which is a tourist attraction. So im sure he wanted to stay. Yes, sir. You [inaudible] did you come across anything, and Frank Lloyd Wrights kid probably went to did you come across any of these connections . And we have the question repeated for the home audience . If anyone else has any questions, please line up here to stage right. Frank lloyd wright and Ernest Hemingway kind of grew up [inaudible] and their kids played together. Mary, what did you find out . There, again [inaudible] didnt say anything about him. But what [inaudible] the house they lived in was they had it built. And it was a very strange thing that they were taught [inaudible] i wasnt surprised that i didnt learn a lot [inaudible] you know, a movable feast is the favorite of people because the notion of having these creative people at their parties and all of them clustering around Gertrude Stein is just great at this wonderful period yeah. Paris in the 20s. Of. In the fall. Just think of it. [inaudible] how could you be feeling bad . Well, he was at the top of his form. And you cannot he was so handsome. [inaudible] he was so talented, and he was so, he had such magnetic appeal. And he did these mean things often, but he still had this appeal. Be was highway joker, practical joker . Could be. You know, he could be. Im not sure he had much of a sense of humor about himself though, and thats, that can be fatal in a writer. Sometimes he did but you make the point that he laced some of his, maybe all of his writings with a kind of sense of humor, with some offhand humor. Yes, he did. His, he wrote a Nonfiction Book about i guess youd call it a memoir now about his African Safari called, sorry its a anyway, his wife calls him a miserable old man, m. O. M. , and the between hills of africa. The green hills of africa. Hes very funny about himself and even about his, hes not doing so well hundting, and the friend they brought along is doing better, and hes even okay about that which, you know, a different side of him. When you say hunting, he was a hunter. And he was actually killing too many trophy animals. And so Kenya Wildlife service or minute came in and said or somebody came in and said were going to make you a game warden. Yes. [laughter] and the other thing, you cant kill all these people, because you have got to protect them now. And he said, well, i can kill high year thats. Yeah, jackals. If you go to kilimanjaro, you have the hemingway camp. I dont know if its still there, but maybe he wrote the snow is there, but he certainly got the ideas. Yes, he did. And i loved reading about that camp. You know, theyd have a big lunch and a siesta and a lot of drinking, and then the cocktail hour. Things like there was a structure that was a canvas [inaudible] obviously, they could move it. I think it was fascinating. Theyd eat at a table under tempts. It was a way of under tents. It was a way of life. You know, when he went on the safari, the one where he was injured, he was much more interested in watching. He and mary wanted to watch the game more than and especially the birds. Than he wanted to shoot them. Thats when he was a game warden. [laughter] that still exists today. Wow. You have the pay for it, but you can recreate the whole thing. A couple more questions. Yes. Yes. You wrote a biography of mailor, and now youve written one of hemingway. Could you compare their personalities and their style of writing . Yeah. I wrote one about i seem to have a trilogy going. I wrote one about miller too. Talk about a red herring. But mailor had huge respect for hemingway. Of theres a quote that, he said something that i think is interesting about hemingways legend. He said imagine how silly and he used the word silly a farewell to arms and for whom the bell tolls would be if the writer was 54, had a shrill voice [laughter] wore glasses, you know . And i guess, i get the point. You know . But im not sure how useful it actually is pointing out something thats very real. Didnt you say that castro said he didnt all he needed to know about a revolution he learned from a farewell to arms . Did he really . Guerrilla fighting. Thank you. You were talking about oak park, and i was reminded of saw lee nance, california, and the people not appreciating John Steinbeck very much when he was alive. Went to his museum many years ago, and it was just a small house. Now 50 years after his death, huge museum. What sense do you get of citizens of oak park and their relationship with hemingway, and do you feel he gets enough recognition and honor from his town . Well, i dont think they had much, and many people didnt even know he was there. And then they made a museum out of his house. And even now, although its a good museum, its not the kind of level of the museum of national history. Right. Once in a while you can find someone citing a teacher of hemingway yes. And perhaps, well [inaudible] right. And finish right. In high school teachers, but hes not properly there are some serious hemingway scholars, associated with the Public Library and so so forth. Then theres a Wonderful Museum there, but its kind of an amateur museum. I think they are getting some money to try theres now a hemingway, oak park writing fellowship. Heres a tip. We now have an American Writers Museum in chicago. And you might go down there. They ought to be really featuring hemingway. Could you describe the falling out between hemingway and [inaudible] thats a complicated issue. It was in the spanish civil war. Bees he had his translator ws a good friend, and he disappeared. And he was probably killed by the soviets, by the good guys. That was happening. And he was obsessed with it. And hemingway was sort of like, you know, calm down. Because it was embarrassing. Hemingway sided with he was on the left, and the soviets were the movers and shakers. And ernest was, didnt want to talk about people who had been murdered. This is what youre talking about, right . They had a huge falling out and never spoke again. And dos pasos became right wing. It was bad. He had been a very good friend. He was not competitive with ernest, which was the only way you could be a good friend. Thank you very much for coming. Its Ernest Hemingway. [laughter] by Mary Dearborn. [applause] booktv is on twitter and facebook, and we want to hear from you. Tweet us, twitter. Com booktv. Or post a comment on our facebook page, facebook. Com booktv. [inaudible conversations] good evening, everybody. Hi. [laughter] so welcome