Transcripts For CSPAN2 Do I Make Myself Clear 20170617

There were 48 stores at its height and today the strand is a sole survivor. We survived bigbox stores, amazon, ebooks and as a month ago a major manhole fire blasted out all of our windows. We just shook off the dust and opened up the next day. We are glad we are here today and thank you all for reading and being here. Today the New York Times called sir harold evans the greatest and the most garland editor alive. [applause] [inaudible][inaudible] that says it all. He has been on the sunday times, random house, currently working as editorinchief of writers. He got the british award for Lifetime Achievement and was negative in 2003. I dont know what else the first time i met harry was in 2004 is a cspan segment on this very floor. Since then we have developed a close friendship. I am always in awe of how they know everybody and how they bring people together and conquer one project after another. Their daughter was a summer intern in the rare book room and she was so love to that every department had wanted her to work in their department. I was the one that had to break the news that she had to go back to harvard. I got off subject. Tonight we are here to discuss a brandnew book that pulls his years of experience into the pristine document of clarity and wit. Do i make myself clear . His number seven role is dont be a bore. Hope we are going to follow that will tonight. We are also on to welcome twitter. Com booktv, known as barnacle. Mike barnicle is senior contributed to msnbcs morning joe and columnist for the daily beast, broadcaster and commentator. His followed rule number seven throughout his career earning him accolades and making him a bugaboo of conservative media and red sox hater. Please join me in welcoming the esteemed mike and harry to the stand. That is truly a heroic story. Sir harold evans, it is an honor to be here with you this evening. You want one of the most legendary editors in the 20th and 21st century. My first question to you is what did you write today . [inaudible] day i began writing a piece for the london Evening Standard which is not edited by the former i was in the middle of it talking about where you find truth and whats going on. That is what i spent most of my life doing. And i have written a few words though i stopped. I thought the strand was more important. I better skedaddle and get down there. In the book you write many things in the book. The book incidentally is a gift to both writers, attentional potential writers and readers. Because it gives you an account of how easy it is to read something that has been well edited, clear and concise. You dont want to really write anything where people would scratch their heads thinking what does he mean . No one has ever felt that way about anything that you write and still write. One of my favorite chapters in the book is storytelling. Long and short. The many stories that you tell in the book, defining clarity in writing, one that struck home to me was the helicopter patrol over a city in afghanistan. Why dont you. Guest the need for clarity and the difference between two different forms of news writing. News writing, when i was young and i would get an assignment or try to get someone to talk to me or if there has been a robbery there was a getaway youre too young to learn about this. So i let my writing, i did my best to tell the truth and the whole truth. But i was too young and inexperienced to weaseling out of people. The difference between writing for the columnist like Mike Barnicle it is certainly directing you to look for particular place with an arch and come up and see men scurrying about and it looks just, sounds just like the place theyre looking for. And so they you think well maybe its not so they circle again and talk among each other. And they say will i didnt ask him again . The guy on the ground floor, whats happening . They say look for an arch and this kind of building. What we have seen several of those. And then they go back again and finally say lets go. So they go. And i said doctors without borders, of course it is a disaster. So then you ask yourself, how did this come about . And so i tell that story, i never saw any action with the army was pretty frank about that. They were not all frank however, when writers, men were killed by an Army Helicopter was looking down so these men gathering the marketplace. And they became convinced one of them was carrying a hammer and said that looks like a gun to me. The other guy said thats like a gun. And they say lets kill them. Theyre actually both photographers. And next day, i personally dont Julian Assange and snowden but in this case, im not particularly fond of this but they give an example that even the heroes get things could you speak, it is an extension of that story. The aftermath of that story, the write up of that story. The bureaucratic language of that story. Why is it so difficult for people who are smart people to write just a simple declarative english sentence quake noun, verb . That is the whole point of tonight. I mean seriously because it amazes me. Most of the time i am in a rage. But i can be enraged by the language. Let me just give you an example. As you know last year coincidental with the election of our 45th president , George Orwells 70th anniversary. And the political language and with variations which is true of all Political Parties conservatives is designed to make life down trickle in murder respectable and given experiences, let me give you some pure wit. In the Management Statement with promises to ourselves to improving the efficacy of measurable learning outcomes. What . We stand to run something. But we have this new republic, a great magazine that is set upon by one of the founders of facebook. And as generalists we have mixed views about facebook it is actually taking money away. And. [inaudible] what is going on with politics . There is a crowd and you can see all this is what they want to do really, we expect to create magical experiences through collaboration and align ourselves from a metropolitan perspective. What . I want to Say Something that will shock you. And if i am i have many emotions. Donald trump, this is donald trump at a charity and an emphasis and a certainty which i for one overlooked as being effective as it was in the election. And this is what he says. We have to stop illegal immigration we have to do it cheers. Usa today, usa today. And when i hear people i am running against a we have to build a well folks, we have to build a wall and a wall works. We have to do it we have to do it all you have to do is go to israel and say is your well working . Walls work. This is just but you have to say, you have to admit it, in the Election Campaign that worked. Because it cuts through all of these long words and nonsense. While they personally aided the message, you have to admit now. So the question is, is that language, that certainty of nonsense . And there are some objections to my notes, but in that certainty, how does a transit from winning a campaign to governing . If you read the paper today, the newspaper you know the translation from campaigning to winning is definitely very different. But what is it that his campaign again, the certainty and clarity of it much as i didnt like it. So these great slogans which you see here today, make america read again. His was make America Great again . How many of you know that was stolen from Ronald Reagan . Ronald reagan said lets make America Great again. Donald trump edited out the lets and put the emphatic make America Great again. And unfortunately, the democrats, they didnt have any kind of certainty. So that is why we have 1 45 president who spoke with dogmatic certainty about lies thats all . When i say lets be clear im speaking on behalf of people who want to see justice done and they want to see nonsense being posed for the Republican Party at the moment. But you really have not to talk this business of crack. This business crack that i read out to you of measurable outcomes and magical experiences. You need to learn to speak dearly. You have to speak clearly in simple sentences. But where do you get the clarity that is respectable. Where is the verb . It is okay to have a sentence without a verb. When youre trying to find the verb and also the noun it relates to, and given tons of examples and supportive. I cant understand half of it so i sit there getting angrier and angrier and finally find a way of uniting verb and subject. In talking about the chum campaign and building a wall and talking about noun, verb, object. You edited millions, millions literally millions of newspaper stories. Thousands of books, is there a linkage between words that make you think about things and words that so many emotion and a reader or listener . And do you think emotion is an important part of writing . Tell me why and how. I really do. One thing, i want to get out of the swamp that i have been in. No graph lets imagine it is 30 years from now or maybe 40. You are 93. This is, this is before all of you. So i come up to and say, how are you feeling . At 93. Well, i know how it begins. I mean why do you ask . Just look. I show the change here. This is what roger angell wrote. Before he reads it i want to taste something he wrote or that he quoted. Roger angell could make a paperclip sing. Go ahead. [inaudible] okay its 93 this is what he says. This is what he writes. Check me out. Check me out. The two top novels in my left hand look at that being worked over by the kgb. No, if i had been a catcher for the hall of fame, to put this another way if i put my hand like you like a pistol and fired a year knows the bullet would nail your knee. And it is like slamming a door in your face. Dont stop, its good stuff. Dont stop . No, dont. Now still facing about cover my left or better eye with one hand i see a blurry and certain vision of the ceiling and floor and walls or windows on your right and left. But no sign of your face or head. Nothing in the middle. But cheer up if i reverse things and cover my right i that you are back again if i take my hand away and look at you with both eyes the empty hole disappears and you are in 3d. And actually, looking pretty terrific today and it ended macular degeneration. Im 93 and im feeling great. That is magnificent tansey specific images, having the courage to admit the deficiency. And at the end of the day when he is 93 and i am somewhat younger than that, im feeling sorry so that is an invocation of sympathy by the way he writes. So they have been entitled to say i can barely get up the stairs. Thats what i mean by really good writing. Simple language, noun, verb, copied images and imagine a great metaphor about this eye. Does that answer your question . And send this gets to the flipside of roger angell his book i think is this old man, all in pieces. Which is well worth reading. Roger angell, life sir harold evans is a legend. He has a ready for the new yorker for 67 or 70 years. But in any event, the flipside of clarity in writing, and it struck me reading your book. Is, the writing that impacts and effects so many lives like Health Insurance policies. Has anyone ever read their Health Insurance policy with a Car Insurance policy . Nobody reads that. So i would like you to talk about two people. Start with ethan bedrick. His mother was a young man whose mother had a difficult birth. He was born with Cerebral Palsy. And he was also born with that means you have to stretch the muscles what youll never be able to walk. Also, because of the effect of Cerebral Palsy, the muscles in the mouth for enunciation and speech are not properly developed. See need Speech Therapy as well as physical therapy. Even ehtan bedrick was born and his father was a top executive, he bought an insurance policy. A health policy. Would permit to do more of the things that were required to be done. And the boy, within five years he said he had a very good chance of walking. After 18 months, travelers suspended the treatment. They went to court. Some of the means by which he was enabled to exercise his muscles, they were restored by court order. But one was not. And the Travelers Company refused and ended the service of Speech Therapy. Batmans that that boy was imprisoned in his own skull without the ability to communicate in a simple manner because the Cerebral Palsy, the best i could, Cerebral Palsy can be treated to the extent that a victim can learn gradually to communicate. Whether by whatever, so the judge actually said in a commentary explaining he said i cannot overrule that policy language. What was the word in language, that scrutiny when the father bought the policy . The word was this, promise to restore speech. And the Insurance Company argued, would cannot restore something that is not there. Which is the judge said privately after, a diabolical argument. Because in fact, the careful word mr. Suggests it doesnt have to be precise to take back to this state. There has to be some improvement but it was quite the 5050 chance of being able to offer some kind of sound and maybe a bit better than that. So that really amazed me. That is the story of ehtan bedrick. Why is it is an education . Lack of patient will have . That so many of us have difficulty in clear, concise writing. What is the root of this problem . Some of the magazine pieces that you do, there are books he picked up and read. Some of them, not a lot of them but some of that is like you are wearing snow shoes and a machete and its like every sentence is driving to binghamton. It takes so long to get there. That is one of the things that i describe in some detail. I think in fact, just imagine in that perfect example of the perfect metaphor. Trying to get to the sentence before you get to binghamton. Here is what happens with the sentence. It begins with what i call a predatory thought. Which is given all of the circumstances, given the fact that it is now in the seventh month of our lord and so on and so on. Then the fifth of it comes. Long opening is where most people get shipwrecked. The panic because they know nobodys going to come instance after instance in this book of mine, where there are 60, 70 words before you get to the,. You have to carry all that mental luggage the point and then you have to remember what it was. So in the end youre carrying out screaming. Because it is completely incomprehensible so the predatory clause, hell of a lot of words in my book, im trying to save you from madness. Because if this is true, it would be crazy there are hundreds of instances of this predatory clause. And in fact in simple sentence when you mentioned at the beginning, it is headed in the afterlife is it hidden . Because it is one thing that you start to write. I do this all the time. You start to write and then you remember something else. Well, lets put that in the beginning there. But whats put that in there too and then you have all of this garbage in the pit of the story. And in childrens books, is one thing very inhibiting for writers. Maybe one or two people here. I would suggest you are but maybe you used to be. Which is terrified of grammar. Oh yeah. I still am the number of people so scared of grammar they get to the clause which says, which, what . People dont fret and sweat and the difference between that and which, who and whom. It doesnt matter james server wrote a story about a man who is trapped in a witch clause. It could go on forever. And he said im never going to enter a witch clause again and whats important is know what you want to say. And say it do not stumble. Or dont even put it in. Really im serious about this. Because so many people look im all in favor of all of these things. But i think grammar scares a lot of people. Years ago, not many but for many years, when i was writing three, four or sometimes five columns for the boston globe, i ran to the issue at the beginning. You know being lost in that clause and thing the chair of the department at the university. But then after a very brief while i figured i would write for the reader. In the readers ear in the way you speak. Do you think that is an okay way to go . I certainly do. Often people asked me about their writing and they start to describe the problem and i am there but i say just send me an email. And in the email they sent usually is very clear. Because nobody on as an email all the time. And if you can write that piece of paper which is headlined Harvard English Department they are frozen not me. Just send an email no one is going to arrest you. They are causally on their tail. What do we do about the Language Police . It is a real issue that you raise. Actually when i wrote the book, i knew i was creating hostages because there would be a trivia cop hiding in may be in the word and say you cannot say that. Right . Now you cannot say that because it is not in the normal sense of the word. And i say just go away. I am expecting to get arrested any day now buying a language cop. I mean obviously, is now okay to have a word without a verb. Right . One of the more interesting things in the book is full of interesting anecdotes and stories. Compelling stories well told. Very clearly told as well. But one of the interesting things for prospective writers or writers who write for a living is you are recounting the number of people you know. Perhaps even yourself, certainly me who have a little difficulty writing until and unless they get the lead down perfectly. The first sentence, the first paragraph. It could take you in our. It used to be that it would take you quite a while some days to get the first paragraph down. At least 850 words. Typewritten lines. But until i got the first paragraph down and could not proceed. Once i got that first paragraph down the rest of it would be my 43 minutes. Almost on a clock. That is very familiar to me. Because i was writing editorials on whatever was on the evening news that was shared with the guardian. I had 50 minutes to write. Very short. Only about 600 words. I spent the first 44 minutes on the first paragraph i spent that, the method that was extended, the paragraph was not very long. But when it was approved they just sliced verse paragraph. And say why dont you get to the point . And so i still have a fear, in fact i was beginning to write this afternoon. I would paragraph which is not entirely happy about. But most writing is, calls out to be edited. So my wife, i have a wife who is a writer. And it torments me that she may be a better writer. I have discretion in this matter. She calls and says why dont you do a draft. It is a wonderful thing because there is an idea and you gradually work on that draft and that is what i learned from her. And she said he sent me a draft but is okay now. She used to come home with, in fact roger angell one of my memories come from and have copy paper in her handbag. And so you have to read this. And is your wife, she the one that told you about the zombies and flesh eaters . No explain what they are. Okay, a zombie i o this to a professor, we used to call it nonmineralization. A very ugly word. In fact zombie itself, zombie is a noun that swallowed the verb. And therefore taken all of the life out of it and you can tell because all zombies are from the same family that ends in ion. So take the word for example authorized. Authorizes a good word. I authorize that and they make me look good in this very difficult moment. Know what you go, what he insisted on, the bus rose did you receive authorization for that particular action of yours . Authorization. It means it has lost all the vigor of the word. Participation. I have so many zombies, how can i begin reading . Outlook to sleep. But take my word for it, look out. By any chance [inaudible] if you read the zombie section, you will see all of the clues of authorization and participation. Are you going to participate in this group . Yes, am going to participate with other people. And these words are very very important. And ive also included, there are frightening words in the book. You are pros, all of you. Every one of you. You are affected by flesh eaters. Flesh eaters do nothing except take the space with respect to and so on. I have a whole army and then youve got way say the same thing two or three times. Everybody , he is saying is absolutely necessary. It is necessary. We dont have to have flesh eaters eating away at your prose. I have given you tons of them seek and go through them, go through take out the flesh eaters and find the normal so that recognition that you have makes you or made you a great newspaper editor. One of the greatest newspaper editors in the world for parts of two centuries. The 20th and 21st century. So want to ask you and im sure people here have more questions than i do. They would like to talk to you and have questions. When you read the newspapers in the morning and the newspapers are in my view, just wonderful and most economical supermarket they will go into. Front to back. If you dont like something in the front page might be something on page 6 that you like. But when you read the newspapers, do you get angry, sad or happy sir harold evans do you have legs and dislikes . When i read the newspaper, mine is when i see acres of land. Right i cross out land. Another one microsoft, adequate enough. So you dont need that. Leers ago objected to a notion that there is no cause, there is no undo cause for alarm. Just think about that. No undo cause no cause for alarm. It seems obvious take out the undo. There is no cause for alarm. The sentence is not even worth describing on paper there so many of these, there are hundreds in my book. And an anonymous stranger. Hello. Before you even get to the end of the street. A number of examples, and an alltime record. Why alltime record entry a record not an alltime record, it is a record so yes, i go through the paper and one of these days when it happens and say what is a homeless guy doing there . How did he get in . So im kind of hunted by all of these. In fact when i get to sleep at night im haunted by this. The zombies. No wonder i did sleep at night at all [laughter] would anyone like to speak right now . Straight up to sir harold evans. Questions, he has answers [inaudible question] do you feel that the fever pitch tone of the internet is provoking people that need to over emphasize everything has to be taken to the utmost. That is very true. And in fact that is the real temptation. Because the language is like currency. You know they say the bad it is the same with words. Bad times of the good. So people, it guarantees to cost you nothing at all. Okay theyre not quite sure about it so they want to emphasize. So the language you tweak it again by someone else who puts another emphasis on it. Then in the end the emphasis is every word when in fact what it really means, the internet and affected by people having hysterics between syllables. Do you worry at all about online newspapers online . Journalism online . Much of it, most of it is tremendous. Having seen how these toe to toe combats between the Washington Post and the New York Times with regard to trump administration. Every day. Sometimes multiple is herbal reporting, credible journalism. The worry even with those true efforts being made that there are reporters, probably younger reporters because of the intensity of getting this online, you know lets make by 1 oclock. Lets make it by 3 oclock. Lets have another one by 5 oclock. That the writing suffers because of lack of time to think about what they are writing to. That is quite true. My first. And unfortunately because the Printing Press and Digital Press for that matter, is not in great shape. Most of it is not discovered by facebook. Facebook is fantastically rich and is a level of edited and experienced someone that he would bring to editing a piece is not as it was. So although its a very interesting vein, every second of the things online they are absolutely wonderful. But the general level and the repetition and some of the things ive been complaining that here is now more noticeable and at the same time have to say no the New York Times the questions and covenant covering up pull of the events is, it is very funny video of the moment, they keep saying the word phenomenal is mr. Spicers favorite word. Phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal. Okay. Good luck with that. Someone else had been handed over here. I was wanting to content delivered about the relationship between the clarity of words and the clarity of ideas. One of the more than five donald trump is that even though hes such clear language he did not actually have the clarity in his mind. I dont know [laughter] but the other part in the campaign i did not like it at all. Especially when it was awful some of the stuff i am talking just purely this is a lesson for all of us. When talking with the actual i think my own view is and i have discussed this before, there are many forces and i have a kind of feeling, i cannot prove this, im no qualifications whatsoever. But actually he may believe something when he says something. But whether it is fantasy is a question which really wants all of us. It haunts all of us. And there is a book by Jonathan Swift which gets to your point basically. He describes a politician, this is for 500 years ago. You cannot tell the difference and what he really believes pierces exwife he keeps on changing. What is your answer . In your role as an editor, editing someones words is one thing but you are also in charge of helping them shape their ideas. And im wondering have you ever come across instances where editing actual words helps what you are trying to do . Do ethically want to improve the clarity of the message which i despise . That is an ethical question. My job is to make the message clear. But that may help but i do not want knowingly to propagate an untruth. And mike will know this experience. There are people on the staff were always challenging and say what they mean by this . And the newspaper is an argument that is a good definition of newspaper. And so unless the document, i mean you mustve heard this many times. And they say what is this . Right . Many times so not a virgin adequate answer. You should write an essay about that. So we can all read it. Make sure, that and put in the which and the who. Sir harold evans adjusts the portion of this, license what you are speaking about earlier. The linkage between noun, verb, object. And emotion of language. To give you an example of what im talking about in terms of donald trump. This occurred early in january. 2016. Maybe the first week in manchester new hampshire. He had a rally in the manchester verizon center. Main street in manchester. It was a terrible night snowing, and ice storm, people unable to move in cars. And he was coming down from another area to about 20 miles and he was late. The place was packed. A full house maybe three or 4000 people. They waited and waited and waited. There was great music being played. The collective song. Beethoven, many others. He finally arrives and is with his family. He came out and started back and forth on the stage. People were cheering, yelling and screaming. And he began to speak. And first thing he spoke about was the wall. We are going to build a wall. The crowd went wild and he uttered some other words about where going to this, we are going to do that. And because temper dulled a bit in his and we are going to get that wall up first and they went wild again. He caught on. The wall was the link between the crowd and he talked about for two or three minutes. And i never hang around in the press room. I just walk around. Because i think i look normal, its stupid you know nobody bothers me if you look at the crowd, as they listen to him in terms of words and emotions and you realize they were looking at him the same way they look at the numbers on their Powerball Ticket on friday night. He was going to win with them. He was going to build a wall, he came into the state on a big airplane with his name in gold letters on it. His beautiful wife, he has made billions. He was going to make a great deal for them in which he told them and they believed him. But the emotions, that was the link. The emotion of his words were the link. That is an example of Mike Barnicle writing a great column. This is the way he told that story. It was vividly expressed, not a single zombie insight. In fact, you shouldnt have to worry you write a column tomorrow. I dont know how to do that. But that is the point actually. That is one of the things with donald trump. With him picking up on the emotional echo. I tell you how much i despise that. And i came close to calling people deplorable. Particularly when they were cheering the mockery of a disabled person or mexican or a judge. I mean wait a minute one of the dangers in my view and i witnessed this which allows me to talk. One of the dangers with all of this, the actually continually attack the credibility of people, education in their lives in the truth and accuracy. Academics. The judges, lawyers and so on. The media, the media is now called the enemy of the people so undermining the credibility of these messages is a very very dangerous thing. And i dont want any about the emotional vividness and clarity of these words to suggest i am not alarmed. Alarmed is the right word. Any version of faith in the truth. What would orwell have to say . Actually a very sad film, this is a good point actually. Orwell was rarely photographed. I hope he read a great book in 1984, is particularly good because it talks about. [inaudible] at the end of his life he is lying in a farmhouse dying. And we can get this thing on youtube. The interview and then orwell, what we have of orwell at the end of this, the last breath he took we have him saying, you have to be warned people you have to warn them. And he understands what is being done we have to understand the power, the people have the power and in the face of the public. It is very very moving. He is trying to get a message to us. That language matters. And therefore we must struggle to attain the veracity and credibility of the people who bring what they are attempting to do and where you attempt to destroy truth that is the end of his life. And we look at that on youtube i think you will be moved by how can i put it . The compassion and prophetic insight. Sir harold evans, one more. Go ahead your favorite writers are. Donald trump speeches. Always inspired when i was writing this book. And cromwell and it is so wonderful and my wife has told me, she said shes going to use words for instance, if shakespeare hadnt been born there is a whole part about shakespeares words. End she said to me the words and agendas that they had to do with respect. While every fiction, i read nonfiction. I dont think my life depended on it i could write anything fiction. Im sort of, i dont have the imagination or the capacity. Im just dwelling in the how can i put it in the ironworks of nonsense. So i go back to shakespeare, but i read a lot of i will give you list but one of my favorite books is john reed. John read the men who wrote 10 days during the mexican revolution. And john reed is just incredible writer he is an incredible writer. He describes crossing the river and he is resting in this town and this is what, how fiction gives you an image. So he is in this town and not sure about whether they will walk in him or not. And he looks at his watch. And i said i dont know whether to shoot this guy now or just take his watch. And he talks finally, he takes the watch and he survives. But i can see that happening in that little small dusty town in the mexican revolution. And heres the power of film. I can really see him trekking through so there is this community of thought and philosophy. And by the way, i have written about john reed in the book. But i like that kind of thing. And i can give you, i have been asked to write my favorite five books. I am going to keep that to myself. Sir harold evans, legend. Thank you very much. Do i make myself clear why writing well matters. [applause] may i say, i am so grateful to do this tonight. Because it gives me credibility which otherwise dont have. [laughter] [applause] thank you both of you legends for coming out here and go read this book. It is fun, it is wise. Do i make myself clear why writing well matters we have copies for sale and harry will stick around and copies. Very grateful. [inaudible conversations] booktv is on twitter and facebook. We want to hear from you. Tweet us or post a comment on our Facebook Page facebook. Com booktv and twitter twitter. Com booktv. [inaudible conversations] welcome everybody welcome to the American Enterprise institute. Thank you for joining us today. We are going to dive right in. We are going to talk about the new book everybody lies. Subtitles for about 15 to 20 minutes. After that, we will sit down and have a conversation with