Please colloquy between he and the judge when he entered his change of plea. The council can make us aware of that behind. It is my understanding that there is a transcript, we dont have a copy of it right now. Counsel, you are not sworn, but if you could answer that gentlemans question as a member of the bar would be helpful for us to dispense with this. Mr. Chairman, there is no five 9 11 component to the plea agreement. The strait of plea agreement that does not require any additional testimony or affirmation. Did he receive a reduction in is guideline points . He did. Was a super acceptance or that twopoint acceptance . It was three. Two plus one. That does not include answering questions and he is not in jeopardy at a Congressional Committee hearing . No. It only requires acceptance of responsibility as contemplated by the guidelines. I would love to have a copy of that plea agreement. I am sure other attorneys and not attorneys would like to see it as well. I am going to direct scott to get that. Obviously is of our interest that the u. S. Attorneys office not enter into an agreement that would in some way allow what is occurring here to occur. Do you have any questions . I just wanted to enter into the record, i think he makes an excellent inquiry. I was wondering the same thing. We have the letter of september 203rd, 2013. September 241st. And then this is a statement. We ought to have that as part of the record. Without objection. Do you have any other questions . Said just now found out. I do have one question. To the council. Yes. On behalf. Okay. Fine. Is there any, you know, part of our problem here is that we are trying to prevent this from happening again. There is no requirement anywhere obviously the trial judge. With that we will take a 2minute recess so that we can reassess. Mr. Chairman, just one thing, first of all, i am hopeful, mr. Chairman, that after sentencing we bring him back because then he is no longer in jeopardy and we cant get the kind of affirmation that we need to assist the things you talked about a little bit earlier, making sure this does not happen again so that we can get as much detail as possible. I am hoping that he is aware that he will likely come and i am assuming, once sentencing is over i agree with that gentleman. The reason for am watching it is so that he knows what is said here. The intent to seek work with the u. S. Attorneys office. I believe that the appropriate arrangement should be prior to his sentencing as part of his plea bargain. That is not my decision, not your decision, but we will seek to work with the court. As you know, we delay this hearing until after the plea bargain in order to make the closure of this portion of the investigation for the attorneys generals for the ig office in place. We will take this 2minute recess and be right back. Thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] i recognize Bob Perciasepe for his opening statement. All the members of the committee here today, thank you for providing me with their virginity to prepare before you today and discuss the Environmental Protection Agency Progress in addressing recent issues brought to light. The Ongoing Investigation involving former epa employee john beale. As evidenced by our steadfast cooperation with the Inspector Generals investigation to this matter of we approach this with great seriousness and are approaching corrective actions aggressively to deal with the issues that were raised by the fraudulent activity. As stewards of the taxpayer resources the epa take seriously a responsibility to ensure federal funds are used for the purpose is appropriate, costeffective, and important to the agency mission. The reason the Inspector General investigation, as we know, identified a number of the administrative processes and controls which are listed in testimony just a few moments ago that were either insufficient or not being effectively used in preventing what appears to be a calculated longterm criminal fraud. I have not been provided the full details at of the Inspector General investigative findings but am aware of the most significant fraud involved, employee pay including exceeding such tory palins, and authorize extension on retention, incentives, time and attendance, governmentfunded travel and in nearly all instances there are policies and procedures in place however, number of them may have been ignored, circumvented, or undermined by his criminal misconduct. At this time the epa is fully cooperating with the Inspector General and is looking for to assessing all findings with a complete commitment to implement appropriate for the process improvements and Administrative Changes necessary to ensure a more effective internal controls well we are waiting for the Inspector Generals report and continue to cooperate, we dont want to wait to deal with some the issues that we already know about. In regard to steps already taken as part of our regular ongoing process of improvements and based on some of the preliminary finding shared, i want to outline a number of actions that we have already begun to take. Back in last year and more recently this year back in october of last year i directed the office of administration and Research Management and our office of chief Financial Officer to conduct additional reviews of policies and controls for time and attendance. Employee, pay, and travel. These reviews have resulted in they have resulted in a strengthening of existing policies. We have strengthened supervisory control on time and attendance. Increased oversight of time entry and approval practices, including generation of except as reports to assist managers to show whether every employee, whether the employee or theyre timekeeper into the employees time. Each employee fail center his or her own time, and the answers were a supervisor or time approval fail to approve an employees time, all of these are now available in the exception reports and are an additional series of rituals on top of our existing system. These reports will then enable the office of chief Financial Officer working with the employees and supervisors and time approvers to correct or discovered what the issues may be. We have improved a review of employee travel, including a requirement now that 100 percent of all travel vouchers will be audited and of receipts will be submitted by the chief Financial Officer before payment is authorized. We have been tightened retention incentive processes requiring future retention incentives to be entered into the urinary system with them not to exceed date, a stop date on the system by generating an acceptance report which will require a Human Research specialist to either confirm the reefer recertification is received or in the incentive payment. I might add there is nobody at epa right now receiving incentive payments. We have also ensured a review of gross payment amounts of employees by generating new controls for employee pay to insure compliance with the steps toward palance. These documented changes in policies and procedures will also be supported by an array of new training to our resources for employees and supervisors and defined roles and responsibilities associated with our administrative processes. As i indicated previously, our agency is fully committed to strengthening in captivity for stewardship of resources invested to us by the taxpayers and we expect fully to be working with the Inspector General as they do their administrative review of this current investigation and that there will be providing us with additional recommendations beyond the ones i have already mentioned that we already implemented. Want to thank you again for allowing me to represent the agency you today in the alley toward answering your questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. I will now recognize myself for a series of questions. Mr. Sullivan, you and your deputies in your investigation uncovered not just the big lie, but you also uncovered these excess payments. Were you able to discover whether any other whether this was a common overrun, firstclass, you know, the nature of, you know emanates of the violations that are unrelated to is not showing up to work. The scope of your investigation include any other employees other than mr. Beall . Our investigation was targeting mr. Beall for his alleged criminal conduct which is now been proven by his guilty plea. The question you refer to now, i believe, the bigger picture, and days now and a thorough audit of seven areas that he is already testified to. And the epa is audited by an outside accounting firm. Is that correct . I dont know. You dont know. A clean audit on spending. Chairman, my staff conducts the epa it is done in house. Okay. Previously these are simply areas that were not audited. Surly, obviously. The specific areas that we are discussing here, no. And on the pain never includes verify whether you exceed the ses pay cant . We have not conducted an audit on that issue. Abcaeight. Does your accounting change now catch someone who is paid more than this as a tarmac some . Yes, sir, it would. We designed it design these improvements we have been making and the ones that we are now implementing to deal with the most important findings that we know of so far. And so we come again, want to keep pointing out that we will expect to learn more. Yes. You said some glowing things about mr. Beall including if it had been anybody but you would have not considered historical level. Isnt it true that you were aware that it took trips to domestic locations. You also aware of the excess spending in excess of the epa guidelines in the federal regulations . No, sir, i was not aware that. Mr. Sullivan, do your investigations, who do review and would approve a firstclass ticket for ten times the cost . We interviewed the individual the sign the vouchers. She told us that because mr. Beall status as an executive them because of his cia connections she never actually looked at the vouchers, she designed and process them. In other words, under cover supersecret status was known by a great many people. That is a fair statement. Our founding fathers, they already keep this secret is for one to be dead. Arent there people who have no highranking security clearance it were well aware of that he was with the ca . He does that have the security clearance. To rhinology has never had a security clearance. We can understand that part. In other words, the people in h. R. And so on the or approving these excess payments without looking at them, there were told he was in the caa, so was an open secret that he was super clandestine secret. The folks may not have known that, let the people at his level, the executives approving them, highranking. Deputy assistant have been a strict and that without credible requirements cannot approve expenses greater than their supposed to be approved and no one needs justification. That is what happened. No control over the american taxpayers in excess at the epa. That is part of the issue of the audit. You yourself received, as i understand, and 9,000 discount or 8,000 discount on a mercedes benz. Them understand your fair one today. Is it true you receive the discount through a lobbyist on behalf of mercedesbenz on your automobile . [inaudible conversations] please turn the microphone on for all of us. S you if you receive the discount. That is pretty much a yes and no did you receive a discount of mercedes erased by and lobbyists on automobile your purchasing . As i said, this is an issue that was reviewed and investigated a couple of years ago. My understanding is that the decision was a no further action as warranted. And disclose it in my 2011 Financial Disclosure form. Okay. So today in the investigation in which we are conducting on the epa there was an investigation. He disclosed it in financial documents after the fact. Did you receive did you excepted 8,000 discount from mercedesbenz . Mr. Chairman, i came here voluntarily today to discuss the issues associated with mr. Beale i did not come prepared to discuss the set of issues. As i said, already investigated. A decision has been made and it. I am not prepared to discuss those issues today. Reserve you a subpoena in the city would come voluntarily. Was not aware of that either. Okay. Let me go through the script. Tied the course of the committees investigations but to our attention the you allegedly engaged in an end to conduct. According to the report from the epa Inspector General you excepted and 8,000 discount from mercedesbenz. It was not offered to the general public and was arraigned specifically for you by a lobbyist employed by local law firm. The committee is charged with preventing an investigating waste, fraud, and abuse. The information we have uncovered during the investigation as a result of the Inspector Generals work includes an allegation of improper discount and demonstrates at least one possibility and that the culture in which you operated as a supervisor promoted are allowed unethical behavior at the epa which mr. Beale has pled guilty to. At this by the committee would ask once again voluntary or otherwise, because we will request you back in voluntarily, would you please answer the question, did you receive not was it passed by, not was a prosecutor, did you receive the discount . Mr. Chairman, as i said, that was not an issue i came here prepared discuss. I came voluntarily to discuss matters directly related to mr. Beale. If the committee wants to pursue this set of issues i would ask that it be done through my counsel. Be represented by counsel here today . I am. Would you please confer with counsel as to whether or not this question, the question which takes no preparation, you know whether now you receive a discount. He said there was an investigation that cleared you. We are inquiring into that because, quite frankly, it was part of the ig investigation and the affirmation that was given to s and is germane to this jury. Youre not here simply because you were due to my mr. Beale pier you are here as part of the broader investigation about what might be a negligent culture at the epa as to whether or not the American Peoples money is being protected and will spend. Please be could your counsel. We will wait. [silence] [inaudible conversations] mr. Chairman, i noted a 90,011 Financial Disclosure form, i did receive a discount on a vehicle. It is described in that form. And the attorney lot is to arrange to that, is that somebody that does business with the epa . Mr. Chairman by this is a set of issues that i did not come prepared to discuss in detail with you and the committee. And who will stay at its 10,000foot level. Any individual. Was it an individual a firm that did business with the epa and sought to influence legislation . Yes, mr. Chairman, it was an individual who did business with the epa. Is it your understanding the you are allowed to accept discounts of monetary value from lobbyists or anyone else who does business with your agency they you oversee and or accept them from something not available to the general public . And just asking what you understand the ethics to be. Mr. Chairman, as i said, this is an issue which was investigated by the ig in the department of justice. They came to the conclusion, i have a standing is they came to the conclusion that no further action is warranted. I am going to go to the Ranking Member. I am not sure that we believe that this is a closed matter. Esther cummings, thank you for your patients is. Just piggyback. Just one question. Mr. Brenner said the mr. Beale, he has been cleared of this spirit is that right . Did you do the investigation . That he is talking about . I would like to refer this to mr. Sullivan. Mr. Sullivan. Yes, mr. Cummings. My office did do the investigation. He is not accurate in his resuscitation of the facts. The fact is that the u. S. Department of justice Public Integrity section did decline prosecution of mr. Brewer for excepting the discount. However, we were never able to interview him because he retired prior to his being allowed to interview him. Once he retired airline had the ability to compel him. Up processes once we get a declination and employee within the agency is compelled to speak to us because there are no longer under jeopardy a prosecution. We will was our plan to compel his interview with us never happened. It is very helpful. Thank you very much. I ask unanimous consent. Without objection. So ordered. I wanted thank you for joining a spirit of want to commend you in your team. Youve investigated, youre very fine work in uncovering this massive fraud. The taxpayers, helping bring him to justice. I am struck by the audacity of his lines. According to the criminal plea agreement, and i quote, for more than ten years they engaged in a string of the session during which she lied to the United States government, the supervisors, friends and family about a position he claimed he had the the Central Intelligence is a c. And it goes on to say that they uses fates have as an excuse to this is not show up for work, but he did it for what ended up to be to a half years. Is that right . At mlb god to a half years. And a minimum. What does that mean . That means that the two and a half year figures that was agreed to during negotiations which in the United States attorney and his defense counsel it is quite possible that it couldve been more. It could have been more or maybe a year or two more. We agreed on a two and a half year figures. Yeah the is he was a secret agent seems to busters to all of us now. He kept it going for decades. People pretty much everybody. His employers, family, his criminal defense lawyer. It sounds like he was good at lying. And the more people he, you know, the more he lied the more it seems that people believed him. And they went on and on and on. It became easier to believe. You interviewed more than 40 current and former epa employees with your investigation. Is that correct . Yes, sir. And figuring epa officials across multiple administrations believed he was working for the epa. You heard him talk of what a great guy he was in goal of the wonderful stuff he had done. Did you get the impression that everybody kind of felt the way . He talked about all of his secret agent stuff and playing james bond. I mean, is that because he was such a good guy . See you think that is why everybody to said he is off on another mission. Sir, i think the best way i can describe it is this. He did very high quality work for the agency. He got a lot of accolades to be based on an interview with him, he said that was not enough. You need to puff up his image. That is when he assumed the persona. It was universally excepted, absolutely universally excepted throughout the agency the large for the cia among the Senior Executives. A First Executive that ever questioned him working for the cia was mccarthy. Beyond her suspicions everyone else we interviewed flat out believe he worked for the cia. You mean to tell me that somebody could what can, i can be working for the epa or some other agency and say, you know what, guys, im with the cia. And nothing is required path . Mr. Cummings, do you follow me . He began in 1994. He did it a little bit at a time. Finally when he spoke to mr. Holmes said he was an administrator in 2001 and crafted a someone believe will story that the cia had recruited to be on this Oversight Panel. In fact, he was reviewing undercover operations around the globe as part of his Oversight Panel that he was recruited to join allegedly. Of course it was all a lie. But mr. Also believe that. He used that to a springboard more and more time away from the agency. In fact, the plea agreement descry the in 2001 a senior bush a message official granted permission to be out of the Office One Day a week in order to work on, and i quote, an interagency special Advisor Group working on a project with the director of operations at the cra. Pursuant to this operation mr. Beale began taking one day a week off on days he claimed he was working for the cia and did that for many years. Is that right . Do you recall how many years that happens . Yes. He was a minimum of two and a half years. He began taking one day off will begin in gradually morphed into more and more time. There was a time for two years and is in command of the office. He was also lying to his family. That is correct. Is absolutely correct. We can see that based on the mens javelin. We never interviewed is life. Are they still married . Yes, sir. Are you sure . I dont know. All right. Go ahead. All right. We also had one other employee who was an administrative person , executive assistant that did suspect mr. Beale, but she was midlevel rankin believed that his travel vouchers were far too excessive and brought that the attention of their immediate supervisor who was a Deputy Assistant administrative person who was signing the vouchers interferes were dismissed. What about is from defense attorney will be any understanding, initially lied to him as well. Yes. He maintained that persona being in a cia agent. His defense counsel to the u. S. Attorneys assigned to the case, please so the 0ig to back up because theyre interfering with the cia worked. The u. S. Attorney came to us. A relationship with the cia Inspector Generals office. Discussed the case. I already told us he did not work for the cia. No record whatsoever. Rita range tramp to come to langley in a secure room. That was the one where he finally came forward and told his attorney he really did not work for the cia. One other thing. How did he become forced to face the fact . We said we would raise that to make him feel comfortable. We would arrange it for a particular day to make is that the main gate. One of our agents. We would go to the secure room. Can you describe . And registered well was that like . You have a guy who is it is a part of the cia, break into the cia and now this wonderful meeting. Tell us what happened. He never showed that. He finally then told his defense counsel that he really did work for the sierra. But it came to the point in order for us to get past the bridge because he maintained his own counsel that he worked for the cia. Clearly they needed more checks and balances. Yes, sir. Of sun records and locations overseas. During the time they allegedly were for a cra you is in communication with executives and claimed he was overseas, pakistan are other locations. When we will this government cell phone records and found that he was at his Vacation Home in massachusetts making a phone calls claiming that he was overseas. Quite accurate. All of times he saw a defect. It was probably more than one. Im just wondering. When you off using this as an aberration . You know what, is probably more of this going on. Ammine demint do you have an impression . Were trying to make sure it does not happen again. I mean, do you believe that this is is one of these things that happened, just a phenomenal lie and got away with it or do you think its quite possible that there are other situations . Welcome representative cummings coming in our business we dont like to deal with speculation. Thats why we are starting to audit. Hopefully at the end we can shine a light and air question and give your answer to that question. You expect that at the audit there are some things like this happening that the audit might provide you with the information you need to be able to answer. That is our goal. Thank you. Thank you. I think what were getting to is the internal controls to prevent each and every one of these abuses from happening appear not to be in place. Obviously when its time, you have made clear your trying to create those internal controls. Obviously we would like to find out who else from between the crack. And the challenge raises to you are one of 74. There are 73 other agencies that need to do some soulsearching about internal controls which is a big part of the reason why youre here today. With that, i would like to get to this element from North Carolina has been patiently waiting. I would like to yield the balance of my time to the gentleman from ohio. That is all time. I thank the gentleman. I think the chairman. A member of the epa cleanair act Advisory Committee. She was it one time. But he was at one time. Is and its true that he was a member back in 1992 . Our records indicate he was. I think that is direct. He testified they you did important work on the Clean Air Act. Did you work back in the early 90s when you as a member of the Clean Air Advisory Committee . That was a farm that meant. Have you worked alongside him . Deasy worked alongside him in his capacity at the Clean Air Act Advisory Committee . Deasy work with him . I discussed the Clean Air Act issues in a public forum with many people who were a member of the public Advisory Committee. And let me go back to where the chairman was. Have you ever purchased in mercedesbenz automobile . I did. And mr. Sullivan, did mr. Brandon brenner, receiving discounts for the purchase of the son of bill . The investigation revealed he did receive an 8,000 vip discount. Yes, sir. And the individual who helped broker the deal, looking at your report, can you tell me who that individual was . Mr. Radar. Served on the epa and buys a committee. Yes, sir. That he has known since 1992. I dont know how long he has known him, what is the same one. He has been at the end buys a committee, working at the advisory kinesis 1992. Mr. Bernard, is that accurate . Was so that had to say . Is everything exactly the way . And 8,000 discount from mercedesbenz . Somebody who i have known, as you mentioned, since 92 and coming in fact, for that. He had been a friend of mine throughout that time. And it is true that he was involved. He is a friend. And longtime friend. He did not tell me that a little while ago. A longtime friend. That is the case. Now want to come more to the present time when you get the 8,000 discount. He was the broker for the deal. And at the time worked as a lobbyist for the diner on route. At that time were you also then working on the cafe standards . No, sir. Was not. I am referring this is an issue that was looked at. It is our understanding, by the time you get the aid and it does not discount were you working in the office of variation . I was working the office at the time. In that office had jurisdiction . That Office Shared jurisdiction with another agency with that office was involved in the standards. But i was not. But was your boss . Your direct supervisor . Yes, i believe she was involved. Mr. Sullivan, do you know if ms. Mccarthy knew about the discount of one of her employees got from someone in the Auto Industry at the time they were working on implementing the cafe standards for the Auto Industry . She did not know about it at the time. We interviewed her. We interviewed every gm is 40 employee. When did she find out about the special deal . Well we interviewed her. Alone was that . I dont have it in front of me. I believe it was in the late 2000s and. And when did she get the special deal . 2010. Same year, same time theyre working on cafe standards. I would ask to enter into record some of the findings we have had. The communication of the cafe standards. Without objection, so ordered. At the same time there were being formed. I dont have any direct knowledge. I did not have any visibility. We were just investigating the allegation that he took in a bun in 2010. Got this way i deal. The cafe standards are being worked on. I will accept that assertion. Okay. Im just saying, it all happened at the same time. Afghanistan my time. Here is the point. On the Clean Air Act Advisory Committee, known mr. Brenner for 20 some years, not just not him, close friends. Then worked as a lobbyist for a major on our group at the time that the standards are being implemented. Breyer who works in the office, but yeah these standards. He gets a sweetheart deal. That is was going on at the epa, and that is our concern. We now go to resign from massachusetts. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank mr. Elkins for your participation in the hearing this morning i want to talk a little bit about these regions in bonuses and the conditions under which there granted. There seem to be too conditions based on the regulations and statutes and epa policy. One of the conditions is that for an employee to receive a Retention Bonus that there is the danger that they would be attracted away to private practice and we would lose the benefit of the services. Is that correct . Yes, that is a general concept. Of caper. The other condition is that we actually retain the employee. Reaction to retain them. So in this case it is at least you can in line me, we did not really dig down and verify whether the job offers, private sector of the charities were real, number one. And then you did not verify whether you retain temp. It is apparent that he was gone for a yearandahalf at one stretch. He was not employed here he just love for yearandahalf. There is a total of two and a half years here that he was absent from the workplace. So on the Retention Bonus, we did not verify that he deserved it. Then we did not verify that we retain jim. In this is a complete collapse. I wonder if you could come this. Said think you mentioned the reasons for Retention Bonus directly. Likely to leave, offers are some other reason. Theyre performing work that is necessary for the agency. When there was when there was an approved Retention Bonus, it was in the time frames that you heard several people talking about, including mr. Sullivan, that he has christies, i have performing individual, and it was not unreasonable to respect that he might be getting but for a yearandahalf he was pondering a around the House Reading books. The problem is not end the original rationale for that back in the 90s. The problem is that it kept getting recertified without any recertification process. So it went on through the time frame that i think the Inspector General is talking about. So the issues of when he was at work and not at work are not during the initial granting. Let me stop off. How did this guy basically absent himself from the workplace for a yearandahalf and we did not pick up on it . Cover to a half ton of 13 years. The again left plenty was living is alternate lifestyle with the cia often traveling overseas and doing undercover work, and no one questioned him. He had free rein. No one questioned jim everett, his doctors, lawyers in the office, no one questioned his lack of work product. What are we doing now to make sure this does not happen again jack. As i mentioned in my opening statement, want to be clear about this. We are working with the ideas they do there review. We will grow when more. In advance of that we have moved ahead and established a number of improvements to our controls. We have controls. There were not followed. We have added additional levels of control. And on Retention Bonus and a we put a hard stop. They need to be renewed every year, and they only have a three years year duration. That was always in there. Right. What did not happen in the early part of the last decade is that nobody ever reviewed those periods of what we now have in the system is our stock. If they dont your review the payment stops. We need to do a lot more. I only have toddies seconds left. There actually are employees, whether there are doctors or, you know, finance people at the sec, we actually do need to pay Retention Bonuses to retain them because of the value that they bring to the government into the taxpayer. This is just as careful that we have undermined in this fashion. You have to clean up your act. Thank you. I yield back. I think the chairman. We now go to the gentleman from ohio. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, mr. Sullivan, i will come back to you. The time that this and we entered the report. I will come back to that. Did you recommend prosecution for is the sweetheart deal that mr. Brenner got with mercedesbenz and that was facilitated with the diamond other group . That was a joy investigation with the fbi. A file is opened up in the Public Integrity section. We believe we had enough evidence to prove our crime. The u. S. Attorneys office, the public integrities ejection. The fbi dropped of the case. In your professional opinion you felt it should have proceeded with prosecution. Will present the facts. That decision is always up to the justice department. I understand that, you are a good lawyer. I can tell. Youre testifying here today. In your professional judgment you felt it should have moved forward. I think there was enough merit to move forward. Refresh my memory. What they teach you recommend that . Did he take this document will was the day . The declaration, on my file in front of me, it happened sometime in 2011. 2011. When did you step down . I retired from the epa in august of 2011. This declaration and talkedabout was before you retired . Im not sure exactly when. The explanations are quite. Yes. It happened before he retired. Again, mr. Sullivan, was there talk, when he talks to mr. Mccarthy about this incident , was there talk of disciplining . Any type of disciplinary action . You have the Inspector General of things is to be prosecuted. Was there any disciplinary action taken . Let me explain how it works. We work a criminal investigation, we concentrate on that. When we interviewed mccarthy the first time, it was based on the fact, try to develop evidence for a potential crime. Second time we spoke to mccarthy about this was after the declaration had been issued an afterburner have retired. From that but we were looking at the potential of mr. The violation. We also endeavor to determine if any other employee in the office of mediation and accepted a discount, therefore we interviewed every gm is 14 and above in excess of 50 people. There is no evidence that anyone else. Were you disciplined in any way for the of loan deal . The discount that you got when you purchase the automobile . No, sir. And no talk of king fired or any jet of disciplinary action . No, sir. As i said, it was investigated. The department of justice declined to take further action on a. Is you get any type of bonus into a dozen 11 when your retirement comes to court that calendar year . I dont remember what bonuses i might have received in the year. How many people directly report, when you are doing this investigation, how many directly report to mr. Mccarthy, when she was running the office of air . And many people directed reported . To my understanding it is in excess of a thousand. She had three Deputy Assistant administrator. Into where they . At one time there was mr. Brenner, beal, and another lady. Said two of the three had significant problems. Two of the three that director reported there. Subsequent investigations uncovered that theory that is correct. To one last thing, if i could. As put on the screen. This is what amazing in. That only this chino that this takes place. The invitation. This is an invitation to a Retirement Party. You can see it. It mentions. So not only she has three people that report directly to her, two of them are here today, one left already. He its a sweetheart deal for mercedesbenz, facilitated by radar who is an adviser to the epa says 1992 and a close friend all this goes on no discipline. In fact they throw a party. Thats whats going on and learn. The understanding is he did not retire. This was the non retirement retirement. For mr. Beale. Thank you, mr. Chairman. , part of me feels of course were now in the first day of a complete government shut down. While the details of this case of fascinating and should be dealt with and are a worthy topic of congressional attention and oversight, does this shutdown cost the p. M. Money and a daily basis . A shutdown costs the American People on a daily basis. Is there a dollar estimate . I dont have a dollar estimate. Mr. Sullivan. Any idea what it has cost the epa . I dont have that number available. Would it be fair to suggest that it far exceeds what we are looking at here today . The estimated cost. I would say that the cost would be substantial. With the gentleman yield far question . This, sir. Is in the chair this cbo scores a savings here every day that the employees and not being paid to make a agree with the gym in that we should not be in shut down. The important work, would like to have them back to work. I am not sure we have the right panel to analyze the cost. I know the chairman will appreciate. Im glad we are in agreement. Theres also a cost associated. Its important we put this area in that context. Its also important to really guard against taking an egregious particular case and in generalizing. There are former members of congress from the chairmans own state you were incarcerated for being criminal, is engaged in criminal activity and to take that particular case and then say, well, all of Congress Must be complicity. Lets start making sure that we include in our accusations and insinuations that all of them are corrupt would be a false premise. With the gentleman yield further for one moment . Of course i well. I would bring to the gentlemans attention of the Congress Took of what we often call the Duke Cunningham loss of any umbrella congress who disgraces and embezzles and receives gives in return for the favors is voters would, in fact, forfeit their pension. That is a big part booktv now offers some legislation to consider, i recognize that never again should someone retire on a 22 year retirement when, in fact a mated now work for 22 years. And ed perceive the point of the chairman. I think that is exactly the action we ought to be looking at we should not be trying to the guilty brush by insinuation the gilts of mr. Beale and, perhaps, others. We have to be very careful about that which is the point was making. And now the chairman would agree with me that this you might conclude the gall to be painted with the same brush would be a false assertion the matter of its intention of the public to look cynically and the congress and individual examples of corruption occur. Mr. Bob perciasepe, is the epa rabbit with corruption . This is a circle of conspiracy mr. Beale was only the tip of the iceberg for . At the core of this matter is in individual who deliberately and with calculation defrauded the epa and the american taxpayer. I am not able to say how much further that went. Adjudication together with him . Please turn on your microphone, mr. Brenner. Sorry. I said that he and i had vacation together at the house that we colombia and massachusetts. Over what period a time . Time i was referring to the 1980s. In the 1980s for the will decade . Was this a regular thing or did this happen once . Well we are trying to get at how well you knew him. It was about once a year from about 1983 until about 1989. But i knew him very well. Is the chair would just build one final question. You have indicated your testimony that starting in 1988 through roughly the year 2000, you felt that the gentleman was a solid professional and the good work. Is that correct . That is correct. That starting in 2000 you started to see a change . Is that correct . I dont know that i personally saw anything after 2001. I was describing it as his supervisor so what when i was a supervisor in the 90s, there were a lot of worthy accomplishments that he deserves credit for. In many different areas. After the year 2000. I was no longer his supervisor. And i said in my testimony that of course, but something went dramatically wrong in terms about epa and he pled guilty. Rick did you observe that at the time . This change board is this something that you just were made aware of retrospectively . No, i did not observe that myself. That is what i want to clarify. I think the gentleman. Please notice that i majored in adult is here. With that, we recognize the gentleman and i like to borrow 52nd. Absolutely. I just want to understand. In 1994 when he began perpetrating this criminal activity of cleaning to take time off, prior to that time you had telephoned this home that you call a Vacation Home in massachusetts, having bought it from his parents. Is that true . Yes, that is true. That house was purchased by the two of us somewhere around 1983. Okay, so at the time that you helped him get into this job and through the period of part of your supervising him, youll were friends and the hotel owned a building, a vacation spot together. Is that correct . It is correct that we coowned. I do not describe that is helping mr. Beale get into the epa. We had a personnel process at the agency. Okay. But i want to take more of this and say, once a month as i sort of know this guy is a friend, but you coown a building together, your friends, your vacation together, and you are his supervisor. With that, let the toman from utah followup. I would like to have my clock reset. I believe mr. Conley was given an extra indulgence. I think the gentleman from virginia as well for his understanding. If we are going to get to the truth, we have to understand i have seen the movie catch me if you can. And it is unbelievable that somebody can get away with this but i would like to go back i want to go back to that indication and there is a Retirement Party. Mr. Beale was stepping down. My understanding is that mr. Sullivan, ms. Mccarthy was at that Retirement Party and she was keenly aware that he was tiring, is that correct . Yes, sir, that is correct. But he didnt actually retire, he continued on for how much longer on the payroll of the United States government enact. A year and a half longer. At that time, he was he reported directly to ms. Mccarthy during the time . Schenectady supporting a time . No. Okay, lets put up slide number two, im sorry, slide number seven. Okay. So this is a letter from the epa administrator and prior to that, she had this responsibility to inform mr. Beale. The Retirement Party happened in september 2011. This is an email that is dated january the 2013. As you are aware, we have been seeking confirmation for your Employment Status with the other federal agency and later goes on and says that we have been unable to confirm the existence of inner Agency Detail or any other kind of individuals. Are you familiar with this . Yes, sir, i am. Okay. Lets go to slide number eight. About a month later, this is an email, and the highlight has come to my attention and you are currently receiving a Retention Bonus in addition to your base salary. As a result, have notified this to cancel payment of it. So what happened there . And between Gina Mccarthy, she becomes aware that maybe this is a lie and fraud and deception and she says this. In italy today about email . In his february 5. That was almost a week before we were informed about the situation. We were informed on february 11, 2012. Shes become a 2013. Okay, so what did you do about it . Did she tell you about a . Shall the son of the very 11th of 2013. She told the general counsels office . No. Shouldnt tell you directly at first . That is correct. Then went to it went to another office. That is correct. And then it finally landed on her desk. That is correct. The chief fire them . No. Okay, so she knows this was a fraud and doesnt have an excuse, basically has been out at this point and the only thing that she does is get rid of his Retention Bonus . Sir, all due respect, i think you mischaracterized ms. Mccarthy and it is our job as criminal investigative people during this time from every 11 on, we are conducting a criminal investigation. But she had enough to say lets get rid of these Retention Bonuses because obviously the other agency is not going on. What happened to mr. Beale . Did he get fired . No, sir, he retired. Did he get his full retirement benefit as a consequence . Yes, sir, he does. So prosecuted, convicted, pled guilty, owing almost a Million Dollars, Gina Mccarthy knows about this, she only had three reports at the time. Mr. Brenner, who has his own ethical problems and challenges, the number two person is defrauding the federal government by nearly a Million Dollars saying that he is part of this and the thing she doesnt fire him and the guys still come a month after month, these taxpayers are going to pay him for the Extraordinary Services and its basic right on the height of three years of his income, which was fraudulent . This is another example, mr. Chairman, of this administration, the Obama Administration failing to actually fire someone and what does it take to get fired in the federal government. If this person can be fired and she didnt do it, i think that we have no choice but to hear from administrator mccarthy. She was involved in this, she went to this Retirement Party and didnt show up to work for years. And she paid him above what she is allowed to do and didnt fire him, still gets his bonus, shes come before the committee. I want to make sure that the timeline is accurate. And according to what the gentleman just went through, the administrator was aware and was working at the general counsel on the fact that he didnt work for that other agency in her estimation before the investigation was given to you. Is that correct . In which the general counsels was aware and later you, is that correct . That is correct. Okay, thank you. The gentle lady from illinois. Thank you, mr. Chairman. We are here to talk about Government Accountability today and this is an incredibly important topic. But i would mention that our government isnt shut down for the first time in nearly 20 years, American Veterans and families all across the country are waking up today due to the news that their government has failed to meet functioning. I have been willing to work with my colleagues on both sides of the outfit changes to your portal correct. I even voted against my own party to achieve this. But this is not what government is being held hostage. This is a disgrace, it is a waste of the American Peoples time and they have a right to be extremely disappointed in us. Our neighbors do not play politics and i hope that our colleagues will rumor that as we continue this discussion and that is why we are so pleased to be working in a bipartisan way at this hearing today. Like so many of my colleagues, i am outraged at this case of abuse and the public trust. At a time that includes americans, can you manage to pocket hundreds of taxpayer dollars by making up fantasies on lies and why this is just one particularly bad apple in an otherwise hardworking workforce, it seems totally inexcusable that the management of the agency failed to catch and stop this fraudulent activity and for an entire decade after he was authorized to do so, he was able to reach thousands of dollars on autopilot. Mr. Sullivan, i understand that your office is working on recommendations on how to do management failures at the epa. Could you share with us your thoughts on the controls that the epa has ari started put into place and perhaps reflective of my colleague from utah was talking about in terms of once a manager suspects that there is something going on, are they allowed to fire that person right away or will the investigation process continue and how has that changed . Well, first of all, i applaud the actions of the epa has taken to address some of the issues that we have discussed here at this hearing today. We will continue to work as a result of our audit and what other internal control we can use to make recommendations to resolve those things as we make this apparent. In terms of the personal issues, i am not prepared to address what is allowed and what is not allowed without regulations in front of me on that issue. Mr. Sullivan, do you think the control we have put in to pace at her place is sufficient . Them, i really dont want to offer an opinion on that in a havent had a chance to see them be implemented, but they do have received the cooperation on the investigation. I dont think we have not time to see if that will work. Mr. Brenner . Would you pay that off . Can you turn this microphone on, please . We purchased a home in 1983 were somewhere around then. And then in later years in the late 90s, he. My remainder of the house from me. His family home that they had built together back when he was a teenager and they redevelop the house. Im running out of time. So he bought us out your app in 10 years after getting additional paid after getting additional pay that he wasnt authorized to get . 85 of his salary more . I would say that thats accurate and we have a complete process for justifying the increase in pay. We have a job offer. That is not what im reading as far as the investigation. There is no documentation that she ever had a job offer from another firm. My question is you have helped them get additional money and additional income was able to pay you and buy you out of this great dont you think that is an ethical problem youre facing right now . And he had a resident here in the area. How did he buy that, with additional dollars . With a job that you helped him get in more money than he shouldve been getting from this town . You know, with my last question, i just want to ask, even if an incident where you had a buddy with someone like mr. Brenner, someone who is willing to engage in this, can this continue to happen with them today . Today there is no one at the epa getting these Retention Bonuses, only 28 people have gotten it and we are putting processes in place and i agree with Inspector General that i need to see more of their work. But we have not waited and we put some new controls in place, basically layers of controls that would kick out these things and this is part of the activity of the first decade of this century that it was never kicked out of the Retention Bonus had expired and that shouldve been in cant go that way anymore because we now have a heart stopped in the system that would pop it out and they would either have to be recertified with the evidence he suggested, congresswoman, or it would stop. That is what happened today if someone else got a Retention Bonus. I think the gentle lady, and i now recognize atonement from florida, mr. Mica. Mr. Elkins, i have heard that you said to the committee that you think measures have been put in place that this could not happen again. Is that correct . You agree with what he said . Based on your investigation that took place enact. At this stage of the game since we have not competed our audit. This is an incredible tale of ripping off the government for two decades and we also had to find out that the individual was going to get his retirement case again. I can only say at this time that we are looking into that. Obviously we had to wait for the investigation to be completed. And obviously it was put before the judge on friday. And this is due to the federal government. How would you describe the relationship between mr. Beale and ms. Mccarthy. I think administrator mccarthy was suspicious of all of these activities and i recognize that we can parse parser how many months here were how many months there. And she actually questioned these activities which led ultimately to the Inspector Generals and it doesnt necessarily fire the idea of a first that and i recognize and this includes the id on these matters. So we did do that and the investigation has been completed and we now see what we see here. How many months, one way or the other. Again, can we put the flight out, i think we put this up in february 2013, a month after the questioning. His email is about the fact that she is now cutting off his Retention Bonus. It seems strange and ironic that someone you had stated they retired is receiving a bonus which was, in fact, the bonuses were designed to keep people from leaving the agency, even if the fact that the situation was true, what the covert activity with a Retention Bonus. I dont know, all i will say is they will continue up to 2013. Again, it is incredible with the time that passes. Getting the system, then at the very end, continuing to gain that to receive a bonus designed to keep people from the agency. And he was set to leave that is just beyond this. Would you like common . We were functioning properly and to that extent, we are facing todays government about. Yes, we are facing the shutdown and our jet exploded from the beginning of this administration from 9,000,000,217,000,000,000,000 for asking the for another trillion dollars to keep us afloat and people see this kind of money going out and it is greatly disappointing,. This baloney . Thank you, and i think the chairman and breaking member and it is unbelievable. It is outrageous that reminds me of the movie, catch me if you can, who divided so many people. Eroding their faith in government, it is outrageous beyond belief. And sir, i want to know, how much does he get. What are you going to do to make sure that he doesnt get his retirement money and its the first step we can take in retrieving his own admission that he received over 800,000 in pay, bonuses, travel and a total scam that defrauded the government for well over a decade. Do you know how much he makes in retirement and woody doing to make sure that the scam doesnt continue, he said he was a member of the distinguished cia and no one even bothered to check. It is almost a consequence that is beyond belief. Concert, i do not know. We can definitely get it back. And the steps are taken to make sure that he does not get his retirement, and if you say he cannot get it, you cannot stop it because of bureaucratic regulations, and i believe in a bipartisan effort that we rejoin in a single bill to stop it and stopped anyone else who defrauds a taxpayer of getting a retirement benefit. It is beyond belief. He scans the government and erodes the confidence we have in government and then gets a retirement. I would hope that we can stop that at the very least. These retention benefits of my college was talking about, who recommended him to get these retention benefits . Yes, maam. In 1991, mr. Brenner prepared paperwork for the first set of attention bonuses, and it was approved by the gentlemen of the name of Wayne Rosenberg and the second round was prepared in 2000. Again, mr. Brenner recommended them and it was signed by him who at the time was the assistant administrator for the administration. So he was the gentlemen with two fell to the task of the guy he was recommending to get an illegal bonus and it has other business relationships, he is recommending that he gets this bonus treatment. Mr. Brenner, did you think that he had another job offer . Yes, since 1991. Did he get it in writing . But it was in the file, any information about the job offer that entitled him to this additional amount of pay . I dont remember. I dont remember if we attain this but i would note that there is no offer of mustnt put into the file. Mr. Sullivan, would you research this and get back to us and was there anything about this alleged job offered that mr. Brenner got. So there was never a written offer for any of the bonuses. So we have policies in place, but they are not implemented. Would be the proper prison to audit this so that the mr. Brenners of the future cannot get away that. Did you recommend others to get the special treatment . I dont remember. Mr. Sullivan, would you investigate and whether or not he had deals with them. Okay. This is just unbelievable. Who would be the proper person to audit this make sure that people are honest. We put some new controls and already on the Retention Bonus system and no one at the epa right now is getting a Retention Bonus, even the Inspector General, he has used this technique to keep valuable employees and so we dont want this. Im just saying that we need professionals and highly qualified people are getting this. I believe he lied like everyone else. So how do we catch liars. Who is the appropriate agency to audit the epa and see if anyone else is involved in some kind of scam and whether this is following. I would just like to say how many other people are scanning the epa right now but your lack of policies. I believe that we have adequate policies in place. They are obviously not working to the tune of 800,000. It would have continued and i would say the investigators and prosecutors who have stopped this. I congratulate their public work. But this was allowed to happen for well over a decade. It is an outrageous abuse. It is a policy and whether the policy follows and if there are controls to make sure that the policy is solid. Honestly there were not controls. Would you recommend would be the controls. How is the complaints . You required written information that is not there. These things lasted three years and they should be recertified. And they have to be killed with a day for three years. For the policies were the is that my policy is how do you enforce the policy that is in place and there should be an audit of this. Where should the audit come from . The gentleladys time has expired and you may answer questions. Thank you, mr. Chair. We have made changes already to make sure that policies are implemented. And im confident that the Inspector General we have a very good working relationship with is also looking at this to see if there would be more to do and i will not presuppose what we have already done and it is enough. But i would like you to be coupled have we have made changes that will have more controls on that. Mr. Chairman, i do not have the answer to my question. Vig the idea is investigating. I was asked about the audit before get there. Who audits this to make sure that they are doing what theyre supposed to do. That was my question. Is there an archivist for the ideas going after corruption of talking about a level where you make sure that the colors that are put in place actually happened and that an audit level. Anyone, can you answer that way think it should be . Yes, i believe what you are referring to is the internal controls and i think with the program and operational level that goes in the place, folks that are in charge that are implementing those policies and programs should be the one who audit those to make sure that they are being implemented correctly. And we ask in this case what whether it was mr. Brenner that wouldve audited it . Who wouldve audited at this and they had a proper audit. Who would be the person in the epa that shouldve audited whether or not all his claims were true including all the stuff that he was doing and ripping off everyone. Who wouldve been the proper person to audit and . Typically speaking, a quality supervisor. A supervisor what . Mr. Brenner, right . If the gentlewoman would yield come i believe it was Gina Mccarthy. Okay, Gina Mccarthy. So she should be auditing it for the whole area . Should only have three direct reports. Mr. Brennan and mr. Beale and another person to actually clarify this . The gentlelady, her time is expired and i have been very generous. But united will have a chance to talk briefly and he may have an opportunity to answer the response one of my questions. But for my time, we are going to the gentleman from michigan, mr. Wahlberg. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to the panel that is here that has helped you get to the bottom of some of these issues that we are requesting. Mr. Sullivan, were you aware that mr. Beale was in pakistan . He had significant foreign travel and we knew he took a trip to india, not sure if we ever confirmed a trip to pakistan. But when he claimed to be in pakistan, through phone records we prove he was in the United States. Can we get the flight up on that. Okay. I wanted to ask that a question to see if you had any direct information. There you go. Okay. You notice that it says there that this was an email to Gina Mccarthy due to recent events that you have probably read about, i am in pakistan. Well, we could definitely say that he was not in pakistan that because we checked his cell phone usage in the cell towers were either in massachusetts or in arlington, virginia. Okay, so when he said unreachable by self, this is a nine hour time difference, ho, ho, ho. That was obviously aerial i . Yes. That was obviously a lie. Was the first time she expressed you that you had concerns about mr. Beale. Conversations when she was expressing these concerns and every one of the agency at the Management Level so that they should be pursued, which is what she did. Did you ever discuss the decision to refer the matter to the general counsel rather than the ig . No, i never did. But i do not think did you ever discuss the general counsels decision to have office of Homeland Security looking at the matter rather than referring it to the ig . Will you let me answer . I think you have. You said no. So what about this . The idea that pursue what may be a personal manner through the general counsel or there may be something related to the other agency that has been mentioned several times here, the lead unit in our agency that deals with the Intelligence Community on a general level is the office of Homeland Security. Once that was verified, then we immediately turned over to the ig. Were talking about a couple of months when this obviously has something [talking over each other] was the decision to direct the matter to the office of Homeland Security, which is located in the office of the administrator done to contain the issue within the agency and keep this from becoming news that could affect the agency . Absolutely not. It was to determine facts and once we have the facts, we turned it over to the ig. Was this part of the decision to direct us to the office of Homeland Security which is located so the epa could understand the facts prior to becoming news . Once we understood the facts, we turned over to the ig to let it go where went and i guarantee that we cooperated completely and we wanted to get to the bottom of this. Mr. Silva, mr. Opens. Yes, sir. The gentleman is correct via the office of general counsel that it was referred to first for the only problem we had with that is the office of Homeland Security who are not investigators they interviewed mr. Beale very prematurely in our estimation and it causes great harm to the investigation. Because your harm . Stack that is correct, sir. He worked with him in the 90s and 2009 on board . I was the assistant administrator for 2. 5 years the late 1990s. Was the first time that he represented he was doing work for the cia. He never represented that he. Never . Never at all. Did you have any doubts about this claim when it became evident. I have lots of doubts about it because it came evident. Would you do to verify the claim . It was already the System Administrator at this time was in the process of running it through a we just talked about. Who oversaw the office in which he became the deputy administrator. Dont you think the response should be to verify one of your employees was missing work due to being a covert cia . He was not doing that would work for me. Mr. Chairman, were talking today of a Government Shutdown and i think we have evidence is here of Government Shutdown in the epa over issues that cost the taxpayer almost a Million Dollars and i yield back. I think the gentleman. The chair recognizes the gentlelady from california. Jackie speer. Mr. Chairman, i thank you and the Ranking Member and i think the Inspector General for the care. This is an absolute disgrace. This is stealing money from the American People. It reminds me of a perfect burglary and is a made for tv movie almost. Having said that, i am the equally concerned about a number of things. One is trying to take someones retirement effectively away as has been suggested by the chairman had been discussed by the Ranking Member, it is something that i would endorse. But i would recommend that what we need to do here is to introduce a private bill to take away the pensions of mr. Beale because this bill that we are contemplating is only going to be perspective in nature and i think that this man has to be rocked real justice and im concerned about him being in debt to the American People, having ripped them off, do we even know he has assets of equal this . We know that . Yes, maam, he has significant assets, in fact he has already paid back the clerk of the court here 886,000 and he has 90 days to pay these 507,000dollar Asset Forfeiture judgments against him. How much money have you spent in this investigation . We can get back to you on that, maam. I dont have a different key. I think the other thing that we did look at is the cost of coverage that should be attributed to the individual who was conducting themselves such an illegal manner that the taxpayers shouldnt have to cut out for the actors we should be able to recover that cost as well and that should be contemplating this legislation we do as well. Mr. Brenner, you think you have done anything wrong . No, i do not think i have done anything with respect to mr. Beales personal issues in the way they were handled during the time that it was a supervisor. Lets start by the fact he recommended him for a Retention Bonus, which he did. Is that correct . That is correct. It is required that you have a written bonus on this. Is that correct . I dont know whether a written authorization is required. Either a written authorization were determined that the authorization was made. I believe this has gone through a phone call to discuss it with whoever was making the offer. Is that true, mr. Salus . Is required to serve you a written . It is my understanding that a written offer is not required, although most packages do have this and what is required, the supervisor recommended the incentive of the bonus is to assert that he or she had Due Diligence. So what was your Due Diligence . We are talking about something that happened many years ago. You cannot recall it . I do not recall whether there was a letter or a phone call. But i know that it was reviewed by the personal office. All of these things. No. But you had an obligation to do Due Diligence. You talked to the prospective employer and you have to be able to recall that. 20 some years ago. I dont recall whether i talk to the employer will received a letter. But i know that without one of those two things being in place, there was no way i couldve been improved. Well, let me ask you about the 8000dollar discount he received. Did you disclose that on your Financial Disclosure statement. I did. You did . Is that an amount that is legal to actually receive . To just 11 disclosure statement. As i said. Was that after the fact . Was that after it was reported. That is what was reviewed. Okay. As i said, it was reviewed and investigated by the department of justice and the decision was to decline this. Whether they declined to take legal action would not does not mean it was not illegal. If you received an 8000 discount, that is a gift that exceeds the limit under the Financial Disclosure law. I think that you are guilty. And i do think that you should be held accountable for the fact that you received a gift that exceeded the amount that you are allowed to receive under those laws. Mr. Sullivan, the fact that he took three trips to london at 25,000 per piece, one for london and india for 36,000 and made it his goal in life to only fly first class and was able to get a chiropractor to basically say that he had a back problem and therefore should be able to fly first class. It is deeply troubling to me. I think i could go to a chiropractor and letter saying that i have a back problem. Lots of people up here could probably do that. That is not a basis the basis on which you fly first class internationally or anywhere. So what do we do to fix that . As mr. Opens testified, there is an ongoing series of seminars within the epa and one of them specifically, the audit, not my shop, is looking at the first class travel i know that on the part of the conference report, but will be produced. Under that im keeping my time with and let me make one more comment. What you have uncovered troubles oldest. I worry that there could be incidents like this and other agencies within the federal government. And i hope that what you have uncovered is shared with other i. T. Throughout the system that we have seen this everywhere because i wouldnt be surprised if we have firstclass travel going on in other agencies under the ruse that everyone has a back problem and i yield back. We recognize that gentlelady. We now recognize the gentleman from oklahoma, mr. Langford. I associate myself with the comments that the gentlelady has just recommended. You need to establish a process. There are employees that have been furloughed for sequestration come at the same time, we have an employee is getting a quarter of a Million Dollars dollar salary in excess of what is legally accessible and doing zero work at the epa. Not even showing up about as frustrating for the people who are working there and that are doing their jobs. Its frustrating for other people in the federal family and incredibly frustrating to the federal taxpayer. The federal taxpayer that works very hard and counts pennies and is very attentive to their own family and what they turn in their irs forms that goes and working with the federal government. Someone is watching how this is being spent. So i do appreciate the work. We have a lot of work to go. To be able to evaluate these processes and i would be able to talk about this. Was the paperwork that is required to turn in and say that i have a back problem and i have to get firstclass tickets. In this case, mr. Beale prevented a chiropractic note that was submitted to the travel office and he was being authorized for firstclass travel. Was that because he was an executive or just traveling. Because he was traveling. Its my understanding that whether you are an executive or not, if you submit a legitimate doctors note in your supervisor approves it, you will be eligible for firstclass travel. You think you might be closer parking spot or you can walk in and say that some of that from vietnam and i had malaria swimmy poster parking spot. Is there a parking documentation required . There is authorization required, but we are believing that no one asked him for a doctors note to confirm his malaria. So he walks in one day and says i work for the cia. I need a day off a week. But documentation is required for that . Only there has to be an Interagency Agreement and the epa go through the other agency and currently since 2008, there is a requirement that if they differed do employ another agency, the director is required to be the head of the agency as well as the general counsel that his effect only for 2008 onboard. So everyone was grandfathered in, so it is just additional new hires at that point enact it wouldve been silly ways of looking for this documentation, or is that everyone . Its my understanding from 2008 onboard. But i dont know if anyone went back to look at his case. I tell you that no one did. No one had confirmed this. When they were changing this in 2008, no one can prevent that we have a gap in the final . That is correct. And how many staff did the epa have worked fulltime for the epa and also get paid by another agency . I dont know the answer. We do have an Interagency Agreement and we even have employees working here in congress. So we can certainly get that. Im not talking about that, but im assuming that the gentleman was not just being paid by the epa but also maintain over their. I do not know, sir, what he claimed. I dont know what he claimed. Because i havent seen the full investigative report yet. So the question is is there anyone in this case i gpa that had been assigned to a location that is also paid by them pay by two different agencies at the same time . At some epa folks are assigned to congress . This. Then we played pay those salaries . Just. It is usually one of the other that is paid, someone could go on an agreement, like mr. Sullivan was saying, or an Interagency Agreement of some kind and pay that is distributed, how it is distributed is often part of that discussion. But we certainly continue information about how many are doing now. But there are several kinds of agreements and how that goes in. It could go either way. Are also those that are working for these agencies simultaneously. For simple we have an agent detailed with an agreement that they reimburse us for that salary. That the employee would not receive both sellers of the same time. That would be illegal. Okay, thats what im getting at. I think it might be a little odd that the cia was actually covertly having the epa paid the salary of one of their secret agents. I dont know whether we have a lot of epa folks are currently on the ca passwords, but again, the whole thing smells weird from the very beginning, trying to figure out if this work or the other thing i see is this constant statement that he was an executive and when he turned in travel vouchers, they were not charged. The fact that is absolutely correct. That is the person who signed the travel vouchers they told us point blank that she never review the vouchers or the receipt, but she accepted as fact anything that he put in because he was an executive in because he worked for the cia. So who supervised the supervisors at this point, nicely that is the task of them to step in and the agency went around you to have you look at it. But we have a process here supervisors just turn this end, all the people that feel like they dont respond right to it and challenge what is happening and they just sign off and expenses continue to fly. So this is not the end of this conversation because we do want to follow back up on the many issues of fraud that are here and how systemic this really is and we hope that we find nothing. But my fear is that there could be several more that we find in the process, and including other issues. So i yield back. The chair thanks the gentleman from oklahoma and we recognize the gentleman from North Carolina. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I am intrigued by your testimony because you said earlier that mr. Beale never represented to you the work for the cia. So to follow up, you had that you had never heard of him working for the cia. Because there is a difference. When this unfolded. Yes, it unfolded. Have you ever heard of that . So no one ever shared what he was doing . I did not see him for 13 years. I do not know what went on from 2001 until 2000 and i came back to the agency. From 2009 on, he worked with you . They be not because he wasnt really there. He was covertly in pakistan . I do not know. That is what we are trying to figure out. Okay, so tell me how the Retention Bonuses are supposed work. How do they work . The basic premises, you have a person who is likely to leave because they have either a job offer or some other important financial reason that they are critical to some of the work that they are doing. And then there is a process that we go to where that is laid out, there are recommendations made. So you have been involved in most processes. Only once. I dont know if he were here when i mentioned that there is currently no one at bk. This was the last three years, it is was to be recertified every year. All right. So mr. Sullivan, to your knowledge, how long did mr. Beale received his retention it went from 1991 to 1999, this was to stop after three years and it did not. This includes the bonuses in 2000, i was a senior he got promoted to the Senior Leader position. So during the course of his career, we saw bonuses from 22 years and should not have received them for more than six. Okay, so after the year 2000 come committee should have been receiving a Retention Bonus. He should not have he shouldve had a recertified in 2001 and 2002 and 2003 sumac aegis of 1999. No, he said it was redone in 2000, which i think would be three more years, if im not correct. Okay, so you signed off on that, is that correct . Yes, i did. Okay, so what did you go through to sign off on it . I use that line with me. And 1990s, and this is hard to believe it was 13 years ago. Its painful for me to go through this. But this was a person who had a reputation, a positive reputation in the federal government. Both inside the epa and outside the epa in that time. Back. It is not outside the realm of possibility to me as the assistant administrator System Administrator that this person could be getting offers from other entities. But i felt we had a guideline that said it stopped at three years. Well okay, so you didnt have the reputation to be able to exceed the guidelines correct. I had no knowledge of any previous one at this particular moment. So how did you approve one without having previous knowledge so when it comes to your desk, you sign off on a . Its not just a good reputation. It has to have a case laid out by the career leaders in the agency which was done in this case. What about previous Retention Bonuses that wouldve been paid . They were not included, i do not recall him being included. This includes a number of years, one was based on the original one and one was based on legitimate years that he could have gotten a Retention Bonus under the rules of the agency. The problem that we have is that there was nothing that stopped it. It just kept going. That is what i have changed. I have changed the system so its a hard stop. Okay, so its a hard stop. Let me go over to mr. Brenner. Did you not sign off on this as well . And so you knew that he was in the cia and knew were signing off on a Retention Bonus at the cia . So he was very close, you have an instant relationship, is that not true . I am a close friend of his, but i had never heard from him that he worked for the. But you did, you knew that he was somewhere other than being at work . This time that we are talking about his 1991 through 2000. So i am talking in general, im not just saying that one. Lack of time. Is something that he was still getting Retention Bonuses and you have to sign off on it. So i have your signature right here. I believe that he was showing up and i certainly was not aware of any problem with his attendance in the year 2001 the when the decade prior to that. Okay, so i appreciate this and let me finish with this question. Both of you, both of you knew that he had retired. You knew that. Yes. And yet we still continue to give him a Retention Bonuses to retain him and to make sure that he would retire a second time. How can anyone could either one of you explain that in rectifies. Well, first of all, he did have a Retirement Party, but based on what i know now, to my knowledge, he never submitted the retirement portion. Okay, so you went to the Retirement Party. And so how can you justify going to the Retirement Party and then in getting a Retention Bonus to make sure. This is the change that i have made in the system. How could you have not seen this . I do not see his paycheck for his timesheet. If you had to sign off on the. In 13 years. s Director Director wouldve been my assumption that it had expired 10 years earlier. So you manage this by assumption . 17,000 employees. Im not looking at their paychecks. I thank the gentleman. We have completed the first round. Okay. We will now go to the gentleman from south carolina,. Mr. Chairman, i would like to inquire if you for a moment. I was helpful unshed hopeful that we would have this opportunity. We would have a short record round. We hope to get out of your posted 12 30 p. M. Sir, you had originally wanted to leave at 1230 but said it might take a little bit longer and we will get you out close to a. Im at your disposal. Thank you. Moving along, the last questions, the jonah from south carolina. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Initially i wanted to make the observation, mr. Chairman, according to the report, the gentleman is looking at between 30 and 37 months in federal prison for about a 900,000dollar loss. Now, you get more time in prison for that then that, for she came stealing a sixpack of beer if you threaten you have a weapon, which you really dont have to. We get more time in prison for that for a very small amount of controlled substances. Even though he refused to answer our questions, mr. Solomon, did you interview mr. Veal . My staff that. Did you invoke the fifth amendment right . At that time it was with the council and the Attorneys Office on what was necessary or not necessary to cooperate. Okay, see you had an agreement that he would cooperate. That agreement also included he would cooperate with other entities that were investigating wrongdoing . At the time the agreement was they would pop in a meeting and it was up to the attorney whether he would accept it or not. So he is getting a threelevel reduction in this guidelines for cooperation. It is super accept it and in responsibility. Yet this winter but not answer a single one of the chairmans questions. So my question is is anyone going to go before the District Court judge and make sure that he or she knows, that mr. Veal would not even answer this governments questions. You cannot beat will be without leaving your fifth amendment privilege. So we waited for the judge and then he waited for the executive branch when he wanted to talk to him. But he would not waive it for darrell issa when he wanted to talk to him. So can i rest assured that the judge will be made aware of that . But we will do his brief u. S. Attorney on the case and we will bring your concerns forward to the u. S. Attorney takes. I just find it stunning that the maxim departure from the guideline can give an acceptance of responsibility and you still sit here and do not answer any question from a coequal branch of government. It is baloney when i thought this was an extremely good question. So is there a policy or procedure in place to investigate conflicts of interest between those who prove bonuses and those who received bonuses. Not all at once. The only requirement that i know of, congressman, is of Financial Disclosure requirement of senior officials. So in theory, mr. Brenner could be approved with financial bonuses or other incentives for someone that he has a financial stake in whether or not they get more money. Is that within the realm of this . Because it sounds like that is what went on. I am not going to speculate. Why not . Because i will wait to read what the ig investigative report says. If youre not going to speculate on what is possible, my next question is this. If mr. Cheney fits or jimmy jordan told chairman i said that they were going to be here for a couple of weeks because they were cia operatives, how would mr. Darrell issa go about verifying this, and i will be clear, that they have alleged as these operatives. But if that were to happen, how would darrell issa go about investigating whether or not that was true. I cannot answer that. The next person who claims this for your agency, how would you investigate if its true. Under the current rules, as mr. Sullivan pointed out, is that if there is an inner agency relationship, the general counsel or the agency would no. A phone call . I dont know. Is that what we are talking about. A phone call to verify whether someone is a secret agent with the cia. We require the director of National Intelligence to inform the head of an agency and if one of their employees is working for the cia. Sir, i appreciate that. And it really doesnt matter whether you are in older guy or younger guy. This just seems a little late to be figuring out that with one phone call, you can decide whether someone who is claiming to be a spy and traveling first class, racking up 900,000 in unwanted compensation i understand technology has progressed a lot. The 2008 just seems a little late for us to figure that out. There is nothing in place prior to that . Clearly the officials at the time could have checked this and it took us about a week to confirm that he had no relationship with the cia. We had determined that he never had a security clearance. So he is not allowed to see this on file with the epa or indeed when she met mr. Beale, she told people from the cia what went on. So who wouldve told her on that . She could not recall exactly who told her, but they did remember to stick we been told that during the process. So would not be unusual for somebody coming in to be confirmed in a position comparable to hers, to be told that you have someone here that is part of the cia . Yes, sir. The Inspector General has criticized them for not referring mr. Beale to him earlier. Can you tell us why there was a delay and what words he doing during that period and why did it take so long . Is kind of crucial because i am seeing these questions but i think that they are fair questions. And if you have a any answer, i want to know the answer. When the assistant administrator, mr. Mccarthy, no one ever questioned this over a decade. And the first thing that she wanted to do in the first thing that she wanted to see was whether or not this person had any of these relationships that are being discussed. So she asked the General Council they asked the office of Research Management where the personal folks are in they asked the office of Homeland Security and what nothing could be found there, i think it was quickly and confirmed as quickly as mr. Sullivan just mentioned and we quickly refer to the Inspector General. That is what happened. Those are facts. These are what happened. There was absolutely no attempt to go around the idea and all in all it was only an attempt to verify the story and once it was not verifiable, it became a matter that it needed to be investigated. The Inspector Generals office has criticized this fruit for referring us to the office or sooner. We fully support the effort. So i want to give you a chance to explain in more detail as to why this was a problem. It was a problem because based on the evidence and the suspicions were given to us on february 11, it was clear to us that there was a lot of evidence pointing to this against the agency. A lot of this evidence was available and should have been referred to as much earlier, specifically the problem that we had with the office of Homeland Security that the representatives interviewed him twice and had three other contacts with him and that is basic 101 in law enforcement. You never interview someone once you have your facts in a row. Our investigation was severely hampered because he was alerted with a heads up. Exactly. To give credit where credit is due. This has been paid for on the republican and democratic administrations. That is correct. It was administrator mccarthy that exposed the . Yes, he was the first person executive that ever questioned his relationship to the cia. So you credited her for exposing a . Yes that is it possible that this could have gone undiscovered it were not for the administrator mccarthys actions . I think it is highly unlikely that it is had not been heard as number one have been discovered. Yes, sir. Okay. Effective follow up with a gentleman very briefly because of the same exact question slightly differently, if mr. Beale has retired and not tried to get greedy and keep taking the full paycheck, he also wouldve never been discovered because he wouldve been gone for over a year before the administrator wouldve even even thought to ask her to sack record excrement that is 100 correct, mr. Chairman. Okay, so is that i guess we should be happy that he was at greedy . We now go to the gentleman from utah. I think thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. When did you say that this would occur . Is at it that the first time that you heard about it that there was a discussion about mr. Beale. One of that happen . It was sometime in 2012. The idea of having to figure what the arrangements were. Beginning of spring, beginning of fall . It mustve been somewhere in the middle. Im sorry, probably one . I was going to say that it was probably more in the middle of the year. But i dont really know. Okay, so june 1 july . Okay, middle of the year. And ms. Mccarthy was aware of that as well . That the conversation was about that the conversation was about whether or not we should proceed with trying to figure out not whether or not, but i encouraged it to proceed to find out what was going on. Okay, its the middle of 2012 and encouraged her to proceed and figure out whether or not is is correct. I was agreeing with her. Okay, you are agreeing with her. If we could put up up a slide, the date on this is march 2011. This is from him to Gina Mccarthy and you mentioned this. Sending the notes back her via email. You mentioned the meeting he had with intel tomorrow and you want to see if i could break away from thence to attend a meeting with you. You said youre not sure but you will try if you want. So hes perpetuating this myth. By mid2012, Gina Mccarthy knows about it and reports to Gina Mccarthy and you are encouraging Gina Mccarthy to pursue this. But its not until spring or late winter, february or march timeframe of 2013 that she actually inquires about this and the idea is that they figured out in a week. So i dont understand this is what we need Gina Mccarthy have been why for eight months, at least not more, that she had known about this for a couple of years. And remember, mr. Chairman, during this time he never even showed up for work. The guy didnt show up for one year. Not a single day. And he is being paid at a level above and beyond the statute. I think she has at least some responsibility questions to answer. Sir, my time is short. Mr. Brenner, what was the purchase when you bought the home of mr. Beale back in the early 80s . What was the Purchase Price . Can you please put the microphone on . I think you have it on my not. I dont remember the Purchase Price of the home. You dont have any clue . What was the selling price of the home . I dont remember the selling price. When did you sell the home . I remember it was done in market value. Mr. Beale purchased my share of the house in the late 1990s. , should he pay for that house payment. He paid me somewhere where 30 or 40,000. See your original Purchase Price that you have no idea. He is staying in my guest room now. Mr. Chairman, this is unbelievable. What did you say . Wait a minute. Mr. Beale is staying in your guest house . Mr. Beale needed a place to live in the area as he goes to the Court Proceedings. The place that he had is rented out. The guy that just that jokey hundred thousand dollars had no place to go now will pay another 500,000 had no place to go, so he came to you . Thats correct. I agreed he could stay in our guest room if he has either Court Proceedings or hearings or medical issues. Host are you married . Your wife agreed to that . She did. You have a very understanding wife. [laughter] figure. Mr. Sullivan and mr. Elkins will you look into the house that he cannot remember what he paid for or sold or monday involved could you get us a report on the arrangement . Also looking to the timing on the house there appears to be a discrepancy in the testimony i was reading the ig says you owned it together until 1999 and i believe you said intel 1989. I want to give both of you a chance to explain the discrepancy how long did you tell the house together . I just said it was about 40 years later so, 14 years later eighties is not consistent with the 14 years do you thank you have a conflict of interest mr. Brenner in your recommending mr. Beale to work to your department in 1989 . As he owned the house together with you . I did not think. Why not . Because the way the process works i could go through the process of recommending that mr. Beale be hired but there are several reviews that needed to ocher. You recommended him as he lived in the house with you but you didnt know about the cia. Recommended him 1989 and you bought the house 1983 and he paid you 30,000 you were involved together. But you saw no conflict of interest. Did you see a conflict of interest with the recommended him for a Retention Bonus for which she did not show up to work for two and a half years . Or any conflict of interest recommending for the Retention Bonus . When i recommended him for the Retention Bonus coming he had an outstanding record during the 1990s as a sole servant at a peak gpa in those surveys to on the record that was then review by others. What was his title at the epa . I believe senior policy analyst in the year 2000. He was a senior policy analyst i would like to see what reports he gave that epa. What did he analyze . Mr. Sullivan can you give us a report of his outstanding work and why did he receive a gold medal . Did he do . I want to see his reports. We have a policy analyst at work for us to do a good job and i want to see what this scam artists that got away with a parking lot at 18,000 that he did not deserve because he was not handicapped in nobody checked on him then he got a Retention Bonus that you recommended that is documented he did not work to a half years. Now we know he lied he was running around pakistan doing cia work where he was at your home resting. Vb were with him. I think the times he said he was working when he was at his joint home with you we should get a report on it. I fail to understand what you think he deserved a Retention Bonus. Were you aware he did not work for two 1 2 years . Was the at your house. You are talking about the period after he received the Retention Bonus. We no longer owned the house together. He was not with me during that period. The Retention Bonus is based on his achievements. That we know from your retirement prior testimony was based on fraud you did not see if he had another job offer you never put in writing or call them so i am asking you now that he had this wonderful job offer but i am concerned i think handicapped people are entitled to special treatment of what to make sure people are not abusing it he got 18,000 spot and would you do to make sure this does not continue or that other people are not repaying of the public for undermining the respect for government . Of all the issues that ig has already identified, not everything that they are going to recommend but on all the points they made we have already instituted additional controls. Can you present to this committee the additional controls you have put in place in writing . Also mr. Sullivan your report said mr. Beale said he worked for the late senator of california. Did anybody verify his employment history or do a background check . He did not work there. Thats correct. Did anyone do a background check to make sure what he was saying was true . That is part of the audit review. We had a difficult time going back at 1988 frankly because we dont know if the epa did any background check when he was hired. Mr. Brenner did you check the information on his resonates to see if it was true . Did you check the other stuff . I would have as part of the process, check to either i or people in the Personnel Office would have checked. Is that part of the requirement to check the rise in may to make sure they are accurate . Is that part of protocol . Either the hiring office or the Personnel Office would do the checks. Obviously you did not do that because the report says you did not. Mr. Sullivan what changes to suggest epa implement that a complete fraud comes in . And another question he paid back the government 800,000 where is this money coming from . Backhouse. During the plea agreements between the Attorneys Office it was clear he had those assets that he could repaid the government he signed in the agreement. Host how does he have the income on a government salary for those kinds of assets . Who else was he working for . I dont know berry he is married and his spouse is employed. That is all i can say. I am interested the epa has pledged to do Everything Possible to prevent these abuses with a tremendously Important Agency supposed to be protecting our clean air and clean water but apparently protecting a complete fraud claiming he worked for the cia and nobody bothered to check . He is flying all around in first class a and getting all kinds of benefits and not showing up two 1 2 years. What you do to make sure this does not happen again . On travel, use of parking spaces, time and attendance in part some of what we are alerting there are other reasons the needed to update regard this. Regardless if it is the deficit is a good start it will make it very difficult for do 31 to do what happened here and i believe this completely, i know the ig office will look at what we have already done and what we are working on and what more baby dan doing commonsense things now to make sure we are in good shape and building on the recommendations i hope to see their investigative reports in the have not yet seen that could give me more insight but i will aggressively pursue additional controls where necessary. I was feeling sorry for you when you said you were betrayed by your friend. I have got to tell you, my sorrow has turned into Something Else now because i am just wondering how much information you might have. The chairman and i had a colloquy two hours ago where we were talking about breaking mr. Beale back after he is sentenced to get Additional Information to get to the bottom of this but now im wondering how much information you might have. Since you are such good buddies and he is in your house and this is somebody who apparently, based in your testimony, has betrayed at least your trust but still use seemed to be doing pretty good. So i am wondering if there is any Additional Information you could help this committee with or helps the ig with in regard to how of this stuff may have happened to make sure it does not happen again. Do you have information that may be helpful to us . Nosair. I dont think that i do. Mr. Beale and i have not been talking about this investigation. How long has he been staying at your house . Since he came out of the hospital a couple weeks ago. I am very disappointed and saddened about what has happened. Yes i am a great at mr. Beale for his behavior. All this time you have not discussed the case, you did not say how did you do that . How did you pull that one of . You never had that discussion . No. Once the investigation started it was clear we should not be talking to each other so we avoided the seeing each other for a long time. But only now but it was just only the last couple of weeks. Mr. Perciasepe i came out of the electronics business. Win you go through 9,000 standards for Quality Control they will not accepted of death something doesnt get caught then you put a second person or a third person had to know the steps taken now are automated or that they dont depend on somebody to in the past simply had a rule and did not check for in force . Initially looking at the Personnel Offices that are covered by some of these policies is to create automated al put it. We are still add a step that a human will have to look at that output to verify so there is the additional output then the eyes on. I think they need to do more in several cases. But this is one i could do now i dont want to go too far. But with a public audience they could possibly understand if you took all of the year to date paid of the h. R. Department to say give me the grand total yr to date on the last day of the year for every employee employee, and tell me any one of the xl spreadsheets spreadsheets, that mr. Beale would have showed up. So is there something automated even today . Our committee had said document request which is now overdue. Are you familiar with that . Would of the challenges and redid the hearing then we get the documents we like to have for the hearing. I do know that there is one. We would appreciate the followup. I will followup to make sure it is expedited. Mr. Brenner have you ever received tips of any type from mr. Beale . I cannot remember any guess that i have received from mr. Beale unless it was a time of a birthday. 50 m below but you remember a gift above 50 in value ever . I dont remember anything like that. Did you pay him for your joint vacation all your sheriff the cost . That did not that occurred after you did not own the home. I a dont remember hall that occurred when i no longer shared ownership. The agreement with the home is even after he bought it back my share i could still visit but there were very few visits. Maybe two or three from the time it was repurchase. Testimony is your body at approximately 10,000 unsold at about 30,000 and had the right to use it for periodic vacations. That is my regulation recollection of the number that is to remember. I presume you did not disclose that capability taking a vacation without pay to his home . It was required to show the mortgage on my disclosure form. So there was a mortgage on the home during the time . See you go from 10,000 up that 30,000 was the equity share . Thats right. You received the 8,000 vip discount from somebody representing mercedesbenz. Have you received any similar discounts during your career from any entity . Nothing that i can remember, sir. Mr. Sullivan, a mr. Elkins this will conclude this portion of the hearing. There has been a lot of claims made. I want to set the tone w2 represented close because this is your investigation but i believe what we heard today is we had an agency that did not think of anything somebody said they were a secret agent for the c. I. A. But in unclassified emails they refer to activities in emails that were not sent in a protected way so when they say they are alluringly as a covert agent to your email is out in the open. Somebody could ride their bicycles to work but have a Handicapped Parking space in digit not seem to bother anyone. Somebody could fly firstclass 14 times the amount of coach and it was overlooked because somebody did a good job or because they were at the cia. This yea does not get to fly firstclass by the way. All of these were in a culture at the epa that preceded it obama and presumably through jamie rates this year. Is that a fair characterization characterization now was just this individual but the nature of the Senior Executive service being exempted from the rules because somebody thinks they have done a good job or some other reason . The facts in this case speak for themselves and i think the characterization is one assumption could be drawn. I am really doing this for mr. Perciasepe that talks about 14,000 people at the epa. 13,500 have no idea how you get these perks. Maybe 30,600 or 700. There has to be very few people that have ever seen any set of perc similar to what mr. Beale got with lack of accountability but it did exist and appears as a top strategy just as the gsa when somebody was taking trips to las vegas or the other agencies where it is not the person at the bottom or the middle but the people that we trust the most to be fiduciary of our money. That is part of the reason we called out mr. Beale to have him here. He is in the top three people reporting directly to the administrator for years. Is that a fair statement . That is what the facts show. Yes. Mr. Sullivan i would just ask you one thing, and your attendance, you took the investigation on after a series of defense that occurred. Mr. Beale was made aware he was a target and the gig was up. General counsel outside of epa were contacted and had begun activities that rightfully would normally have been yours. Even though you were successful is this what compromises the work of the ig . In this case our work was clear the initially harmed although we could recover. We get concerned whenever allegations of criminal activity are not referred to us immediately. I will close with one statement. I hope to speak for mr. Cummings and myself both. This type of event with the abuse of discretion and abuse of taxpayers money very likely criminal, a wendys first occur in there is any possibility that what you see all the your name is broad it is still about 174th of the government. We have sent letters saying wed be a heads up. The chairman and Ranking Member and in the senate our counterparts so we can begin evaluating whether or not if they intervened in your investigation reid need to take action. I will ask you today to remember had this committee had in port to some of these details and a lack of control systems we could have begun working on legislation or oversight many months ago. That is what we ask you for is to give us a heads up. I will pledge to you today from both of us when that information needs to be made only with the chairmen and Ranking Member id will remain on the with us but we were treated to be eyes to the executive branch and this brigid in this case we could have done more sooner which we will now do had we been given a heads up sooner. This is a pattern that we have tried to change. Telesat the beginning of the investigation is a we can start looking something you cannot easily do with 73 other ig to get them to look at the same problem and we are working on modernization and reform to formalize some of this but for right now a heads up in the center at long dash Senate Counterparts can go a long way saying this to all of your brothers and sisters in the communities. One thing what is the deadline . When do expect to finish your work . They just wondering how long this will go on. Not trying to rush to but have some kind of idea because my next question is for mr. Perciasepe. I will answer that question in two parts. Atypical audit could take between six months and when youre depending on what we find reid poll back the sheets. However we have a vehicle called the Early Warning report to the extent instances that show an extreme risk to the agency we will report quickly. We have done in the past so they can react quickly. Is that the information the chair but i would get quickly . Yes. I can make that happen. The first artist is the regular audit the second is the quick action report. Mr. Perciasepe i have to tell you listening to the testimony i am not sure, i know you are waiting for it to reread completed but i am not sure we have a place right now and we have done all we can do to prevent this type of saying from happening. I am happy to give the committee more information that based on what i currently know to put checks and balances that there will still we a requirement for another set of eyes that what were talking about today could not have been in the way were talking. Do we have anybody else at the agency that allegedly was doing this . We have people that are working at other agencies but no overlap. I am praying this is an aberration but they say mr. Beale is doing it, how do you do it . So then you have copycats. I am assuming that is not the case . In the people will say 90 to thousand dollars is not a little bit of money. I think the chairman was alluding to this id when i practice law found to put have any type of law that people find a way to get around it. If they found out there is somebody doing it in to get around it people who are inclined to do that so we wait for the audit and we want a thorough job. I got that but in the meantime we cover our basis. I wanted both of you to know that i am not waiting but i will not go too far. Far enough to catch this but not too far and tele see more of the work. I may see that sooner than later because we talk not that infrequently and i feel i have a pretty good working relationship here. I am as appalled as anybody this could have happened in the already put in place some quick checks we probably need to do more i would be remiss if i did not say that. So i am hoping that the other ig watching, they may take a the cat is something that might be going on in their agencies. I feed we have some red flag types of things that may have been i am sure you will be open to letting them know what type of red flags they might be looking for. Is that a reasonable request . That is a fair request. They give for your testimony in mr. Chairman ira agree we do need to have as early notice as we possibly can and to be very helpful. We want to be effective being deficient in what we do. And it has been very revealing and hopefully we will not be in the same position one year from now. And not having made all the changes to be made to safeguard the peoples money. Thank you very much. In closing with the etfs data act that would create structure data so the entire government could be viewed from the standpoint of some of these statutory requirements that we seemingly discover could be bypassed without an audit picking it up. With that i thank you again in we are adjourned. [inaudible conversations] this house is really florence is house so the stainedglass windows are the leaded glass by the front door, parkway a on danish parquet floor is florence in she brings her influence of what she has experienced in her life into this marriage and the house. This is a very personal space for them. Said diaspora benjamin the study of two and mr. Prime minister . Thank you mr. President. I feel deeply honored, and a privilege to stand here before you today representing the citizens of this state of israel. We are a nation of people that date back nearly 4,000 years to abraham is it can take up. We have journeyed through time and overcome the greatest of adversities. And we reestablished our sovereign states in our ancestral homeland, the land of israel. Now the jewish people odyssey through time has taught us to things. Never give up hope, always remain vigilant. Hope charts the future. Vigilance protects it. Today hope for the future is challenged by a nuclear arms iran that seeks destruction. But i want you to know that was not always the case. 2500 years ago for their great persian king cyrus it ended the babylonian exile of the jewish people. Issuing the famous edict in which he proclaimed the right of the jews to return to the land of israel and rebuild the jewish temple in jerusalem. That is a persian decree. Thus began a historic friendship between the jews in the persians that lasted until modern times. But in 1979, a radical regime in tehran tried to stamp that out. As it was busy crushing the iranian peoples hope for democracy, it also led a wild chance for the jews. Since that time the president of iran has come and gone. Some president s were considered moderates, others hardliners. But they have all served this save unforgiving creed creed, the same unforgiving regime. That creed that is espoused reinforced by the real power of firebrand the dictator known as the supreme leader. The first Ayatollah Khamenei. By the president s who came before him is a loyal servant of the regime. He was one of only six candidates the regime permitted to run for office with 700 other candidates that were rejected so what made him acceptable . He headed the Supreme National Security Council through 2003. During that time, his henchman gone down opposition leaders in restaurants. A murdered 85 people in a Jewish Community center in buenos aires and killed 19 american soldiers in saudi arabia. Are we to believe the National Security adviser of iran at the time, do nothing about these attacks . Of course, he did. Just as 30 years ago, the every and security chiefs knew about the bombings in beirut that killed 241 American Marines and 58 french paratroopers. He was also said chief Nuclear Negotiator between 2003 and 2005. He masterminded the strategy that enable the fire began to advance the Nuclear Weapons program. Behind the smokescreen of diplomatic engagements and very soothing rhetoric. I know he does not sell like, did a shot. But when it comes to the Nuclear Weapons program the only difference between them is this comment on the did a shot was a wolf in wolfs clothing but the Ayatollah Khamenei is a wolf in sheeps clothing he thinks he can pull the wool over the eyes of the international committee. Like everyone else i wish we could believe his words. But we must focus on the rance actions and the extraordinary contradiction of his words and their actions that when he stood at this very podium last week in praised sirenian democracy but the regime that he represents executes political dissidents by the hundreds in jails them by the thousands in when he speaks of quotes of the human tragedy in syria in every and they participate of murder and massacre of tens of thousands of men and children did women but that regime they just use chemical weapons against its own people. He showed that scourge of terrorism began and the last three years alone i rand has ordered plant were perpetrated terrorist attacks in 25 cities in five continents. Khamenei he denounces attempts to change by proxy but yet it is actively the state destabilizing many middle eastern countries. He promises constructive engagement but yet two years ago i read agents tried to assassinate the saudi arabia ambassador in washington d. C. And one agent was arrested trying to collect information for a possible attack against American Embassy in teletv. I wish i could be moved by his invitation to have the road against violence hit the only waves every and has generated in the last few years are waves of violence and terrorism that it has unleashed in the region and across the world. Ladies and gentlemen, i wish i could believe rohani rohani, but i dont because the facts are stubborn things. And a fax are that irans savage record flatly contradicts rohani suze rhetoric. Last friday rohani assured us that in pursuit of its nuclear program, i ran, this is a, i am has never chosen deceits and secrecy secrecy, it never chosen to see than secrecy. Well, in 2002, i rand was caught red he added secretly building an underground centrifuge facility in natanz. And then in 2009 iran was again caught red handed secretly building a huge underground Nuclear Facility for uranium enrichment in a mountain near qom. Rohani tells us not to worry that all of this is not intended for Nuclear Weapons. Any of you believe that . If you believe that, heres a few questions you might want to ask. Why would a country that claims to only what Peaceful Nuclear energy, why fled such a country build Hidden Underground in richmond facilities