Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On The World According To Star Wars 20160807

With that background, he admits he is a surprise as anyone that he would write a book about Popular Science fiction series of star wars. After and reducing the series to his son declan he began researching the films from a fresh perspective. The world according to star wars is floors lessons we can learn from the franchise. Cass describes the i am your father moment which cast a new done everything that has gone before and how it relates to on anticipated movements in our culture and politics. Including president ial elections. By examining Stores Stores through lens as the versus christianity, feminism and more, he provides insights that eliminate how star wars have become relevant for nearly four decades. Youll be invited to ask questions later in the program. You you can line up at the microphone in the center, following the program will be a book signing in the back and you can line up along the back wall and enjoy refreshments. We love to get your feedback on programming so complete the survey you received on the way and we would appreciate it. Thank you for coming out tonight please welcome to cass. [applause]. So it is a thrill to be here, this is the debut of my discussion of this extremely improbable book. If you had told me a year ago that i would have a book on star wars i would say that it was more likely that i would become an opera singer. And the likelihood of that is really low. You have been given a hint of the origins of the project so i was a little bit more. A friend at a dinner inside the year suggested that my little boy, declan should see star wars, the first one. Declan, you need to know is focused on baseball and baseball and the other thing is focused on his baseball. The idea of him watching star wars is not a probable success. I thought it was only polite to give it a try. He was completely hook. Once he got hooked, i got upset us with the following question, how did george lucas come up with this stuff and why did it become the saga of our times. How did did that happen . Im happy to discuss those things but im going to get out indirectly, im improvising here and ill tell tell you the reason for the improvisation. When i was first almost stating my now wife, samantha she as a kind of job interview, meaning husband asked what my favorite recent movies, and i said walk the line the johnny cash movie thousand acceptable answer. As it turned out and she asked what was your favorite scene in the movie are more particularly she asked what was the best seen in that movie, but i said i think the best seen was where johnny cash and i think this is a real saint goes into addition before and phillips that made Elvis Presley famous. She sings a song and its a customary religious song that he sings with great confidence in clarity that that is the route to success come as philip says to johnny cash, pretty good eye for that song a thousand times. Everybody sings it like you. Go home. Johnny says what, you didnt even let me spanish and sam phillips says to him if you have to sing one song before youre in a ditch in the gutter and about to die, what song would you sing to show god what your life was like on this planet, what song would you sing to show your soul and johnny cash then goes into false imprisonment blues which is a rough song about shooting a man just as he had died. And that is caches soul. Its a fantastic song. It is not devout in any simple sense. I think it is a devout in a very deep sense but that is what hes saying. So i said, more briefly this was text message, this, this the best thing of the movie and samantha how did you know that which is i think accepting what was meant as a marriage proposal. Some not johnny cash, and what youre about to hear is not all some prison blues, but if i had to assume one song from the book and this is my audible on calling right now its the sign youre about to hear, george lucas, the great george lucas said offhandedly speaking about star wars, everybody has a choice of being a hero or not being a hero, every day of their lives, you can either help somebody, you can be compassionate towards people come you can treat people with dignity, or not. Yoda said in response to pleas from young skywalkers, difficult to see, always in motion is the future. Lawrence kass, coauthor of several of the great star wars movie said, very recently is the biggest venture you can have making up your own life and its true for everybody can its infinite possibility. Think those are the same song, they say the same thing. Speaking of infinite possibility and choice making, Lawrence Cass is arguably the most fun and most deep screenwriter in the last 50 years was in very tough debate with george lucas, the genius behind star wars about what should happen in return of the jedi. Im going to give you in real time, because, because it was tape, the content of the debate. This was a clash of the titans. Two people who had a vested interest in making the movie work, to people who had ownership of the movie, in the and lucas has the final say but lawrence is a titan. Casting, i think you should kill luke and have leah take over. Lucas, you dont want to kill luke, kazdin, okay then, kill yoda. [laughter] locus, i dont want to kill yoda, you dont have to kill people, your product of the 19 eighties. You dont go. You dont go around killing people, its not nice. Casting, im trying to destroy some kind of an edge to it. Lucas, by killing someone i think you alienate the audience. And this is the full some prison blues, im saying that the movie has more emotional weight of someone you love is lost along the way. The journey has more impact. Lucas, i dont like dont like that, and i dont believe that. Those are precious words. The reason reason i think they are precious words is their order. Lucas is motivated, he doesnt like it and therefore he doesnt believe it. His disbelief stems from his antipathy toward the idea that someone you love dies in a movie. I think lucas wins the argument by a knockout. I dont like what kazdin says and i dont believe that either. Yoda does end up dying, if you remember kind of, only kind of lucas one the arc of the plot kazdin to get his switch wish, spoiler alert with the murder of hans solo, as he put it just a few months ago i thought i was the only one who knew the style, decades later kazdin remember the debate very clearly evidently, just a few months ago he said i was always lobbying to kill somebody major. Because that gave gravitas to the story. If everyone always comes out find then there was no danger, it should cost us. With reverence and respect to the great casting, wrong choice. After seeing han stuff, one of my friends actually the very friend who gave the dvd that resulted in the book, one of my friends distraught spent ten full minutes in the bathroom crying and came out and said i am done, im not not seen any more of these movies, im not done, and im seen every single one, but i but i always have hated that in movies when you go along and one of the main characters gets killed. Okay, now were going to to talk about fathers and sons. Heres george lucas, speaking of his deck, he wanted me to go into his business, i said im absolutely not going to do it, he sold Office Equipment in the store, i said i will never go to work every day doing the same thing day in and day out. Heres isaiah, come now let us reason together says the lord, though your sins are like scarlet they shall be as white as snow. Though they are red is crimson they shall be like wool. Declan as you know, my boy is a darth vader fan, now you know that. Hes the one the book is dedicated to. He just [cheers and applause]. Three years ago he was joined by his sister whose birthday it is. She is for today. Rhiannon is her name. When she was born i had an acute sense that declan might feel some kind of threat and loss. Tough, right. His mothers kind of occupied. Occupied. Within a few weeks after my daughter came home i found myself singing the song to my little boy from the depths of my unconscious that managed to be both idiotic and offensive. It had just one line song over and over and was some combination of get a delight and utter certainty, the line is daddys are for boys and mommies are for girls. Thats terrible. But, i sang it over and over again was certainty and delight. Declan pretended to hated at least a think it was wrong. His his response was to sing back to the same tune, daddies are for girls and mommies are for boys i responded by said declan, you you must be tired and all confuse. Your singing song wrong, did you get enough sleep last night. He came right came right back at me, hes four years old at the time he came right back at me, daddy must be working too hard and all to confuse, your singing the song wrong, did you get enough sleep last night . Whenever i came back from a business trip i would pick him up, this probably happened 40 times and say declan this is amazing, youre not going to believe it. I was watching a news program in a hotel room in california in a commercial came on and there is these people and they all started singing daddies are for boys and mommies are for girls. So its true. And he would answer daddy while you were gone i was watching a baseball game at home and a commercial came on and everyone started singing daddies are for girls and mommies are for boys, see must be confuse, are you tired. Declan still. Declan still pretends to dislike her little song. But he has always known what its about. The song originally said you have a baby sister and she takes some of your mothers time. But your dad is here for you. Its meaning is really simple night, im here for you. There is good evidence, kind of empirical person by training that he gets this, whenever samantha and i are late for dinner he falls asleep on our bed, i pick him up and this happened this past week, hes asleep i start whistling the insipid tunes to the offensive song, he sound asleep, and every time, he smiles, every single time. Rhiannon just turned four today, she has heard the term song countless times and its two different versions. Hundreds of times. Sometime she sings with delight, daddies, daddies are for girls and mommies are for boys. Sometime she sings with equal delight, daddies are for boys and mommies are for girls. Both versions are right. Their complementary not contradictory. Rhiannon is a smart kid, she knows exactly what shes talking about. Okay, what star wars is saying in its own way over and over again is that daddies are for boys. In pointing to the indispensability of paternal love it has a lot to say about the lengths to which people, whether whether boys are going girls will go to get. To every kid, male or female dad has to seep, if you think about your own life at some point, kind of baiter. However kind, the the guy is big and frightening and large with implausibly deep voice, insanely powerful, and, and at least at one moment in the childhood, usually more think potentially violent. For any child boyer gill, dad, dad is both jedi and Obiwan Kenobi gentle and calming and good, and vader, fierce and relentless. Of course, every dad offers his own combination, but everyone seems at least to a child to have access to the dark side. And with his immense power he appears capable of a lot. Lucas was able to get really primal about fathers and sons and he has given some personal hints about why. His own relationship with his father was troubled in some ways even torture. George senior was known as a domineering businessman and those who know lucas have always insisted the relationship between dark vader and luke was inspired by the relationship between george lucas junior and sr. My father lucas said wanted me to go onto the stationary business and run the Office Equipment store as you all know. He was pretty much devastated when i refuse to get involved. By all accounts their confrontations were turbulent and for a time they ended up a strange. Lets pause over that term a strange, parent and child, even if it is temporary estrangement between a parent and child is extraordinarily painful. Been there, done done that. Lucas put it this way after the fact with the faience. We had this big break when i was 18 years when he wanted me to go into the business of i refuse. Lises father recall, i thought him. I do not want him to go into that damn movie business. Even though george senior out of these words decades later, can you feel the fire, damned damned movie business, no light sabers, nobody lost a hand, but every sun yearns for his fathers approval and it took a long time for lucas to get his. Movingly lucas says as an adult, you only have to accomplish one thing in life and that is to make your parents proud of you. And every child yearns to know his parents, who his parents really are. Do do we ever find out . Not sure. Okay, lucas did reconcile with his dad, though it took years. Here is the pain and understanding he packs into just a few words, he few words, he lived to see me finally go from a worthless as he would call lit late bloomer to actually being successful. Listen to this, i gave him gave him the one thing every parent wants, to have your kid be safe unable to take care of himself. That was all we really wanted and that is what he got. After return of the jedi lucas, in in some ways the most important movie guy of our time left moviemaking for two decades. You know why . He wanted to be a good father. He retired. He retired for two decades to dedicate himself to his kids. As just a few months ago on National Television by charlie rose, who clearly wanted to elicit something else, rowe said, what you want on your up attack, what you want your first line of your obituary to say . Lucas responded, without even an instant hesitation, i was a great dad. The first two trilogies lucass halfdozen should be called the redemption of anna and skywalker. The redemption occurs redemption occurs as a result of one thing and the attachment otherwise known as love. That is the reason for anakins dissent of the dark side. It is why he falls. He cannot. He cannot bear to lose his beloved. Anakins heart is what gets them into deep trouble. Attachment is always the reason for his return to the light. Whatever yoda says about the evils of attachment, what and i cannot bears to see his son died. In the end star wars insist that you cannot be redeemed without attachment. That is the strongest message of the saga. Its kind of the loud counterpoint to the point about detachment, the buddhist thing and that is what i think makes the thought saga seek speak to peoples deepest self. Heres a good lesson for children everywhere. If lou can forgive the can forget the worst person in the galaxy just about, then surely any parent can be forgiven. That is a good lesson for garage holders two. Medical. Ill tell you something a star a star wars day, may 4 i put on my Facebook Page something saying, its a good day to make amends with someone with whom you had difficulty. And arent if it didnt happen within two hours that someone saw that in it worked out. The save made it work out with someone with whom ive had difficulty. So what luke redeems vader through is forgiveness. Lucas was very clear that this is what he was doing, only to the love of his children and the compassion of his children who believe in him though he is a monster does he redeem himself. And a a new hope, anakin is a satanic figure. The embodiment of evil, he has made good because his son insists on seeing good in him and chooses to love him back. The redemption scene if you recall is preceded by a vicious fight between father and son. Every every son wants that a lot and also hates and is terrified by the idea. Vader off to win. Hes bigger and stronger but luke trained by yoda gains the upper hand. Vader is forced back losing his balance, do you remember this . He is knocked down the stairs. Lou, lou, having a dark side moment is ready to attack but says that the last moment in his soft, youthful voice, i will not fight you father. Vader responds you are on wise to lower your defenses and then threatens leah, his sister. It is at that moment that luke falls into a dark side of rage. No question about it. The novels make it clear and. The novels make it clear and figuratively emasculated by cutting off his right hand. The emperor says good, your hate has made you powerful. Now fulfill your destiny, that is the antichoice word and take your fathers place by my side. Luke refuses to commit, youre failed to your highness, i am i am a jedi like my father before me. To that end the emperor almost kills lucan and is then that we have the redemption scene when vader rescues his dying son. Vader to luke, help me take this mask off, luke, but you will day. Vader, nothing can stop that now, just for once let me see you, look look on you with my own eyes. Luke does that, anakin says now go my son, leave me. Luke, know youre coming with me. I will me. I will not leave you now. Ive got to save you. Anakin, you are ready have look, you were right, youre right about me, tell your sister you are right. Those are his dying words. Her fairy tale which lucas meant to write, that is good. Its actually very good. Its even great. Heres a nice bit from the novelization that i think carries forward were explicitly the boy was good and the boy had come from him. So there must be good in him too. He smiled up again at his son and for the first time left him and for the first time in many long years left himself again as well. One reason we love other people is that they help us love ourselves. Luke did that for anakin. The the quality of the dialogue here, it must be said is an upset. George lucas knows and he has a spectacular visual imagination. He is like an artist. But most of the time emotions are not his strong suit. While he enjoys editing, he does not really love working with people. In the prequels it is droids and more droids, droids, armies everywhere. All droids, all of the time. Harrison ford famously told him, you can type this but you cant say it. He but you cant say it. He confesses that he struggles with dialogue. Thats part of the problem. George wasnt the best with the human situations to say the least. But at the crucial moment the at the end of the trilogy lucas delivered, he was the best with having to deal with that situation and on that count he knew it he was doing. He did not trick anybody. Lucas had a lot of sources for lukes journey. The major one was the tail of the monument called hero with a thousand faces. Which says myths and religions are all based on the same central tail. The series tracks the account but the notion of the father sacrificing himself and repudiating the defining cause of his entire life and dying in order to save his son, that is lucas, thats rich. The prequels, the under weighted prequels, their time is coming they are ostensibly about one thing, the perils of attachment. Thats what theyre about. In anakins word, attachment is forbidden, possession is for ben. Yodas words, let go of fear and loss cannot harm you. Notice a wise man right, you. Notice a wise man right, that is what he says. Lucas selfconsciously pretrade of person turning to evil because he cannot let go. And he is terrified of losing the people he loves. So yoda, this is in the novel of the darkside despair is, i think that is true by the way, despairs of the darkside, it might be the defining characteristic of the darkside, but then the novel gets something a little bit more poetic and better than what i said, even despair is attachment. Is is a grip plunged upon pain. Pretty good. The point here is clear that if you are attached to someone youre vulnerable. Serenity in the form of attachment is the best path. Luke merely fails as a jedi knight because of his rage. Produced by vadersback anakin does fail because he is desperate to find a way to bring pad may to ensure pad made she dies comes back to life. So as lucas put it, real selfconsciousness, darth vaders undoing, undoing, it is that he loveth too much. They get their revenge and number three, revenge of the fifth because of one thing. And because fear of death, not his own but of the people he loves. Anakin chooses disastrously as a result of that failure fear and here lucas is borrowing on not just buddhism, but still was in. But with return of the jetta anakin is redeemed not by serenity and distance. Heat kills the upper for one reason, he he cannot bear to see his son died. So much that the movie saying for those silly stoics, chose that, anakin did. Anakins at being redeemed by fear of loss itself not detachment. So when remaking the redemptive choice its perfectly continuous. 100 continuous with his earlier self showing the very characteristics that let him to the darkside. When luke press that point, the force went unquestionably with them in terms of narrative, that is his finest moment. The redemption of Anakin Skywalker transcends any individuals personal struggles. Lucas clearly had them big time but he created something that has nothing to do with his personal tail. Its real theme theme is universal and here it is. Here is the pure heart of a very complicated saga dealing with separation of powers, the the rise of hitler like person, et cetera. By their innocence and goodness, by their boundless capacity for forgiveness, and by the sheer power of their faith and hope, children redeemed their parents bringing out their best selves. And every child knows deep in his heart, that any parent is likely to choose to risk his life in order to save his childs, even if it means a contest with the emperor himself. And when the parent makes that choice, the force is going to be right there with him. I like that, and i believe it. Thank you. [applause]. So may be expected some constitutional law and political commentary, prepared to to do that if you would like. Professor, i am apology student in the washington d. C. Area, i very much enjoying reading your new book and my question is as follows. What hes says say you had any particularly meaningful and important experiences throughout your life and career that were specially important in preparing you to write your new book, if so, im curious as to what those experiences were. Thank you for that, when i was i was 18 this older gentleman, very mysterious herman asked me to go to another planet, all thereon and i had never heard of all drug but sounded important. So we had adventurers and he taught me how to use know your serious answer okay. Feel free to answer however you would like. [laughter] thank you for that, the immediate source of courses children. So my daughter who is in her 20s now love star wars. She texted me when the fort after the force awaken schema she texted me saying, i burst into tears as soon as the music came on, first time we did not see it together. Thats something right and so that experience of my daughter was star wars clearly was a focus. And then my boy, as his thing, and i know he sees his dad, not huge, over 66 feet tall, he sees me as a giant. And compared to a four fiveyearold, any dads. Any dads. To see the movie through his eyes really got to me. In terms of deeper stuff, my, my mother love science fiction, she completely love star wars. My dad had no interest in science fiction, he was game for anything but he is not a darth vader vader type at all. A little bit of a consular type. Maybe a good flirt, but he didnt have any violence in them. But heres something that got to me about star wars, and i think somewhere between 1 million and a billion people have the feeling im about to describe. I hope it is more like 1 billion. It is simply way upwards of a million, which is, as that music comes down, if, if you are with a member of your family, star wars brings back the dead. My parents were there. Not literally, but in my spirit at least, they never got to meet my little boy but as that music comes on, theyre there. And that im sure the intergenerational connection the star wars breeds, that is extremely powerful. So one reason my boy love star wars is that he sought with me. Its completely lovable a magnificence of you sought with, choose your least favorite person, hope you still love it but the fact that he sought with his dad, thats the thing. Thing. Also of course knowing about separation of powers this is the foremost. Studying separation of of powers of studying the prequels which is essential for the separation of powers. So this is in the deep, emotional connection. Nonetheless, hats off to george lucas, do not go to law school, understands the separation of powers. [applause]. [laughter] so i can ask you 50 questions right now, im going to stick to a short one and then a super nerdy one. The short one is its Common Knowledge that Harrison Ford wanted consular to die as early as Empire Strikes back. So when youre talking about nobody wanted to make characters to die admin being like im done, well well hunt solo dies, spoiler alert, but most of my friends are like did i cry, very much, but we kind of all expected bit and was that over something that came up in that throughout the main character one and then the other nerdy question, i have a professor at penn who photoshop empire weapons into dday visions. It was really striking in the force awakens with imagery of basically the third became very striking a very disturbing more so than in the original trilogy. Wondered if you could comment a little bit on the world war ii similarities is stuff that i communication professors might not of. Thats completely gray. In terms of Harrison Ford, he made noises for reasons that are unclear about wanting his character to die from early on. Youre completely right. Doctors won a lot of stuff. He did one thing for which he deserves to be in every hall of fame there is, and whatever hes like as a person, he gets a quick ticket ticket to heaven because of this innovation on his part, leah says to him, i love you and his responses i know,. That was not in this grip, that it was his innovation and completely gray. So that one, checkmark, gave her Harrison Ford. Yay for Harrison Ford. Harrison. Ford should die early, no, big mistake. He right, there is in our stick artistic case. His a tremendous scriptwriter and theres an artistic case for han solo dying in this one or han solo dying before, think it would be devastating if he died before so i dont know if that came up with architects of the narrative. In terms of nazi germany, lucas was very much a student of how democracies become dictatorships. I found while researching the book from the New York Times i think from 1933, report of the German Parliament surrounding legislative power and giving basically Global Authority to hitler. It could be completely something out star wars. It is a lot like overtime gets all of this authority. Lucas did not want it to be limited to any particular historical catastrophe where democracy yields itself. But when they say this is how liberty fails to thunderous applause, that thunderous applause line recently anticipated, but anticipating this issue, basically four days ago thunderous applause in hitlers and google came up a fair bet. I put thunderous applause and prudent, not that he is in and really thunderous applause. So i think thats on to something about how populist, what is it despair about malfunctioning institutions can be played upon. Youre completely right that abrams is a more explicit nazi reference that not lucas did. He actually said that abrams stated he was thinking of the plot and what if the nazis in south america had plotted reentry into global political, whatever. Whatever. What would it look like . And that helps account for the more explicit imagery. Is going to ask how you thought it was possible that the original trilogy could be so incredible and the prequel could be so awful. But you said that you felt like they were underrated so i will simply ask, what did you and maybe more importantly your son, how did you feel about the force awakens . Thank you for that. I think citizen kane was great and theyve made some tremendous movies not in the sense of the baddies the way up there next ones. Nonetheless the the Empire Strikes back is the best movie ever made. One part on which i am publicly disagreeing very sharply with the president with the United States with from my work. Theres one issue and that is he is badly wrong in saying as he did that a new hope was the best of the star wars movies. Does a big blunder by the president. The second best movie of all time though is of new hope. So first best is empire stuck back the third best movie of all time is return of the jedi. , citizen kane is in cracking the top three. The the fourth best movie of all time is revenge of the fifth. Thats a fantastic movie. It isnt perfect so its not in the top three but the visuals and the volcano seen, the mirroring where anakin says, yes to the dark side where luke said knows, its very precise. So that is the fourth best movie of alltime. The fifth best movie of all time to answer question, is the force awakens. That is better than anything, Jeannie Jeannie says he was, its fantastically good. The six best movie of all time is attack of the clones. Deeply underrated attack of the clones and today the seventh best movie is the phantom menace. I put citizen kane ate and raging bull nine and chariots of fire ten. But on the last three, theres reasonable disagreement. Okay, to be a little less, i will use my head a little bit not my heart to answer the question. Had first. Not her first. The prequels i think are are underrated. They do not have the inspiration of the first three lucas has something great. If i look at lula maes theres theres one thing that seems to its effervescent giddiness. Im not like that is a person that giddiness is in the first three not in the prequels and i think people feel that they take risk. There seems an attack of the clones and their phenomenally good, i think the latter is a really good movie. The fact that there is brief departures of innovation from anything he had done before, he did not repeat himself. The dialogue, he he says hes not that good with dialogue. Thats not wrong. [laughter] at the force awakens there are two views in which a reasonable to hold. I bet everybody who is seeing them has some of this in their heads, the first views that they did good. With a really hard task to melt the new cast of characters with the standbys and to make it work and move really fast and be interesting and have new mysteries. Thats good. Its a good movie. The other view is a reworking of a new hope. It does not have the fantastic imagination that lucas had and certainly the first three. So is it it world historical, the force awakens, no. Does it take, is it a brave movie . No. Is it a very good, excellent movie . Well how back in the fifth best movie of all time be . [laughter] so you alluded to this little already, but i think that most people there is an extreme nostalgia connected to the old trilogy and why that is a hard answer to say those are the best movies of all time. I was wondering what you thought was or what your feelings were towards the introduction of new voices into seven, eight, eight, nine especially with it being sold over to disney and how that my potential effects some of the allegories and mythical references that are in star wars . Im optimistic about this. I think ray is a terrific character and i think she is clearly, in in some respects the new luke and she has a mystery and maybe can say and acting ability that i wont finish the sentence, but shes good. The other new characters i think of a lot of promise. The mythology of the tail can be taken in intriguing new directions that i think they can to that that. There is a lot of mysteries to be mind about the dark side and the light side. I expect they will do some things that are both tricky and impressively tricky and also heartfelt. So so one thing lucas got at which i think is useful is that darth vader runs away with the new hope and when he is not on the screen in return of the jedi. It sags a a little in many of those scenes. Darth vader is the one that every kid wants to be on hallway. You know any kid who wants to be luke on hollowing . Lucas was to be the hero, that must be want to be darth vader. John mills said, im sought William Blake says speaking of john milton maybe the author of the greatest religious tact outside of the bible, he said the reason that milton wrote in fetters when he spoke of jesus and god and at liberty when he spoke of satan in hell is that he was a true poet. Of the devils Party Without knowing it. Blake did not quite believe that, but it is a brilliant comment, comment, that satan runs away with paradise law. He does, he has the energy of the dark side. Star wars is in many ways occur to but lucas went there. The dark side has seductive power, baders most erotic, probably the only roddick with the possible exception of Princess Leia figure. He has mystery about them, is captivating, and he captures the narrative. And yet, he is the one who restores balance to the force. He is the one who is reading. Luke was right about him. He had goodness in him. The same time, luke our hero, luke, not hero, luke, not coincidently having the same name kind of as the george lucas, luke who is the earnest farm boy who is all goodness, he goes dark. One his sisters threatened, the novel is completely clear about this. He he is in in a static theory and is in the static theory you can see on screen. The the novel says the darkside was very much with him. Thats pretty good. That the darkside is in the best of us on a potential to see the light is in the very worst of us. That is something lucas got in a simple way that i think is devastatingly good. See if the current crew gets at the same thing in a much more complicated but also fairly good way. That is my protection. It given the academic and professional circles in which you tell, im wondering what the reaction to this as it was percolating in your mind, how do people respond and was it hard to give yourself permission to write Something Like this one there are undoubtedly many serious topics you could be tackling. Thank you, i do not feel super proud Walking Around with the book and academic institutions. [laughter] im delivering a chapter of the book, delivering is a highfalutin word, im speaking about a chapter of the book at an Ivy League University soon. Tomorrow. I have trepidation. If i were not doing a book that has a zillion footnotes is essentially unreadable, that is appearing in september i would feel a little bit like i was taking a holiday from my day job and i love doing the book though, it was the most fun ive ever had. I should say that i have have consulted with authorities in my home institution, is it okay, my going to get fired . And the reaction has not been to my face super negative. This question may be a little unfair because your book is about star wars and not star trek. But i am curious, people often divide into star wars versus star trek fence i wonder if you have a theory as to that as of the issue of lack of mythology, what is your view about that . Finally, i notice no godfather movies were on your list, we have the whole father something going there to come what you think is different or makes those inferior to the mythology. Godfather movies are fantastic, so they believe will on any list of the 15 movies below top seven. [laughter] so i completely agree with you, the importance of honoring those movies. Star trek, i love star trek before i did this book i wouldve said i would Like Star Wars a lot and i love star trek, i now love them both. The advantage of star wars is that it has more visual wow and it has an ongoing mythology that is captivating once you get into its even though it grows out of tales about flash gordon. Somehow, what is this about and star trek does not have that quality. Star trek is much like paintings and more like novels. Some some of the best star trek episodes were written by novelists and that shows. So there is one early star trek episode, maybe you are not hoping to get this degree of deepness. There is one early star trek episode where kirk appears as two people. One is himself but a little more passive. The other other is a killer and a rapist. And the viewer sees that there is the real kirk, the gentle, good guy and that that there is this rapist was kirk. And that is where you are, but as the narrative develops, each human being has both of those in him or her and if you do not have lets call it the aggressive outofcontrol part of you, you are not fully human and youre not going to make decisions. You need that in a way that is deeper i think than anything in star wars. It breaks my heart to say that. But in a way lets just put those letters in italics, in a a way it is deeper than anything in star wars. I think if you have a literary sensibility, star trek at its best will appeal to you. If you have an artistic and mythic sensibility, star wars will get to you. If the dazzling specialeffects are producing some off and wondering you, then then youre not going to go crazy for star trek. A little kinda dumpy, the little ship that is probably this big. Just curious about how you went about organizing this book. What was your thought process about putting the chapters together, do they come up automatically or was this a general process with your editor as you went along. The latter. The inspiration for doing the book in terms of substance was learning that lucas improvised and that he did not know as he suggested that bader was the dad from the beginning. In fact bader was a minor character and luke was kind of old. So it cannot be father and son. Theres never a reason to believe the idea that bader was a dad came up after a new hope if you look at a new hope fresh, does not seem likely that bader could be the father. The idea that luke and leah were cymbelines and he knew that all long as he occasionally had suggested, that makes it kinda creepy of their relationship. So the fact that he improvised as he did in the plot, i think that is what got me. I think thats what artistic creation is like a lot. You cant plan it in advance. There are bursts of connections and leaps that happens for fiction, nonfiction writers, it happens for politics by the way, who wouldve thought samesex marriage would be a constitutional right in the United States in 2016. As latest 2006. As latest 2006 that wouldve seemed preposterous. Basically an thinkable. All of our constitutional developments really have the characteristic like that, oversee ability, the idea that somebodys middle name is hussein, it would be president of the United States, elected in 2008 and is also africanamerican, that was, that was not anticipated. That was thought not to be possible. The fact that donald trump is the republican nominee, that was not expected. So politics like that, and i think in a way that the quotation in which i started guess that, thats life. If you think about what brought you to this point in your life, who you love, your best friend is, what your career path is, you can probably trace accidents and burst to that. Lucas was was not to go to film school. He were friends. He said you can go to film school, its really easy and he thought all will maybe i will try that. Okay, so my my question, i know youre right about this little bit but feminism in star wars. Ive heard a lot of really strong arguments that the movies have a really strong feminist moments that the movies are super antifeminist, ive heard both sides of the coin time curious on your take on all of that. Also to tie into that, you you have studied all of the movies probably more than depth and i have are most people here have. Who do you think ray is. Actually i know who ray is and if i told you there would be some drone, they would kill make so i cant tell you. In terms of feminism, there is a view which has foundations which theres something really retrograde about the trilogy that there is only one female figure of any size that the tough guys are the guys that they will fight sabres, the longer the better. And in a key scene and return of the jedi, she is kind of naked and became famous. So that is the thesis of retrograde. I dont like like that and i dont believe that. So what i like and what i believe is that Princess Leia is undergoing a heros journey equivalent to and in some ways more dignified than lukes. That she is the strongest of the rebel characters. She is the the one who has the most clarity and vision. The guys are kind of clueless. Shes the leader, she, she knows how to shoot, she organizes them. Its in some deep sense, the boss. In terms of the scene where she is kind of make good, notice the following that leo strangles and kills with her own hand her captor with the very chain by which he bound her. Thats pretty good. [applause]. Done on. Heres a look at authors recently featured on tvs afterwards. Our weekly Author Interview program. Eric discussed his time in iraq working as an interrogator for private military contractor. Karen greenberg, director of the Center National security took a critical look at the legal ramifications of the steps taken by the Justice Department to combat terrorism since septembe. Republican congressman discusses his time as chair of the oversight and government reform committee. In the coming weeks on after us, syndicated radio host in a last will contend that the United States is dividing itself into two countries. Coastal america and file for america. Pulitzer prize winning author Seymour Hersh will discuss the events surrounding the killings of Osama Bin Laden along with other covert operations taken place during the obama administration. Coming up and coulter will support her cases with supporting donald trump for president. And then they argue that the political left is using scare tactics to silence conservative speech. What you have are bureaucracies that are preprogrammed just like money in politics to dislike sometimes or come in on the same universities with same viewpoint topics. So when they hear the dog whistle, when they when they hear the president of the United States and these nonprofits are scary things were when theyre in wisconsin and they see a prosecutor working on a case against campaignfinance, they are primed to act