In my first semester of graduate school, the professor said youre going to specialize in the merit of your dissertation to write a Research Paper on a different topic, different country, different area and so ive been sitting in germany as an undergraduate for a couple years and i had a knowledge of german. I was interested in two. My father was born in at the 1930 and i grew up with stories about the war, the hunger in such a central event of the 20th century. And i was interested in cultural tree. Undergraduate pieces have been on the role of years in the black civil rights movement. About how can i read something german and cultural and i came upon this topic of the art collections of the nazi leaders. I was surprised that this maniacal and barbarous individuals devoted so much time in the cultural matters. I wrote a paper on the topic and the professor said, you can actually write a doctoral dissertation on the subject of our main and nazi leaders or grenade professors is that you take notice than i thought about it and realized i was tremendous late interested in this project. There is a philosophical question at play. How could these incredibly benevolent people devote so much time to closer and almost a practical issue that even though there was some plundering, there is no academic treatment. My work has evolved in the third year since then. Close quote it is pretty well known that the nazis were plundering art from european capitals. That is not particular book. No. Its been a journey. The first book was about the art collections of the nazis leaders and also their interest in making cultural policy, how not just help there, but all these nazis leaders wanted to get involved this museum policy, are trading films and all that. The second book was about the hints on our blunders, how art experts from the museum directors, art historian became complicit in the criminal looting products of the leaders of that book was called Faustian Bargain and people like myself who have been professionals in the cultural sphere who made this ethical compromise and became an un planners and perpetrators. Artist under hitler completes pictures that she and im looking at cultural acres himself. Artists under hitler does two things in particular. The first is a cultural history of nazi germany. Its a great deal of culture in the third right and this is supposed to be an inclusive synthetic history that i look at the representatives such as the sculpture, the filmmaker, the actor known from the system, the act it was very, very talented. I look our best to stay in nazi germany. A story is not included in the history of the third reich. Pricing for painters like mold and kershner and sculptors like my lot. And thinking of composers like paul hindemith, architects like me and wrote an array of modernist culture figures tried to stay in nazi germany and collaborate with the regime. Every mac history into the story. The modernist in the initial artist at the same time. Host you open this book with a quote by orson welles. Im, im. His wording is very interesting as a poet among other things. When i visited france and italy right after the war, i was followed that in the safety of america. I didnt want to meet the people who had if not exactly collaborated ,com,com ma had not thought that not these. And what it was like an became less prissy about it. The people defending their children for a different situation and the contracts that number. Hes talking about those figures. People email whos stayed in nazis germany and tried to find a place and the like. Host what was it like to be an artist if you were a known artist to 1931, what would you like to be an artist after 1931 in germany . It depends a great deal and if one was jewish, while it obviously had difficulties after january 33 in the nazis came to power. Most jewish cultural figures to leave nazi germany. The most remarkable immigration, cultural immigration the exodus of figures in germany in the early 1930s is so notable and benefited greatly in Southern California where there is an emigre community in the Hollywood Community with marlin d. Trish. If one was not jewish and thought once or could fit into the nazi or shame, people stayed and made a go of it and try to find acceptance in the third reich. Thats what im so interested in our cultural heroes who i think the disposition for antinazis with very little sympathy for hitler and the racism and hatred. They wanted to stay at work in our homeland. Whether it careers of the Great Depression and i thought made in 33 an opportunity to work, with their public spending of public works, they invested a great deal of money and culture in the arts and they were great patrons. Suddenly there were opportunities to design and compose and build and i was very tempted for these people who had been the lay nearest and 3233. I thought that was an opportunity to work again. Most of these figures out of themselves as quintessentially german and they are trying create an art for a new germany and they were patriotic, nationalistic and said they felt at home even though its been taken over by the nazis. Modernist eras had huge egos and they believed with their talent they could work for anyone. They could design for anyone. I was certainly the case with growth we have send xander a i would go for the devil if he commissioned me. He just wanted to work. If it was for hip either in the nazis, so be it. Was their censorship of their work . Guest absolutely. For a modernist artists guest is a loose, expansive definition. It means those figures to embrace the modern movement of the early 20th century which include expressionism in literature and also in writing. Maybe new object dvd in design. Aiming the streamlined neoclassicism, lack of ornamentation. Designing gothic architecture or baroque or neoclassical. One can send pages and pages of modernism. I am sometimes inclined to support in a Supreme Court Justice Potter stuart with. He recognizes when he sees it. You know it has a modern feel to it and in music it can be atonality, dissidents, strident the cover jacket mens. There is a certain vibe and feel that went along with modernist and end it was difficult for people, for cultural figures who designed these idioms primarily because hitler detested modern art. Hitler himself had been an artist. The consent felt unsuccessful artist. He was not admitted to the academy of vienna where he applied twice and had very eager earnings before world war i. He thought of himself as an artist is someone qualified to make our policy and he had very strong feelings about art. In certain spheres, art and culture, diplomacy, war. He was a strong dictator, very assertive. Initially he held back a little bit in the cultural sphere and let the debate about expressionless and play out. There is some of his leaders who like it russian is hard but the propaganda minister. They have a youth minister but the modern expressionist art and thought it couldnt get into nazi germany. The germans had been in the forefront and i thought lets promote this scenario where they excel. Hitler had strong personal feelings in 1937 he made his personal feelings policy and a band modern art, especially abstract art that is not true to nature. He ordered the creation of the degenerate art exhibition. This is a massive undertaking during the purging of 21,000 artworks from german museums, german state collections in the creation of a propaganda exposition that open in july 37 and travel to around subsequently. Officially, was prescribed, was banned. What i find interesting is that theres still these private spaces for the modernist and theres a private life of modernism in the third right in that hasnt been recognized by scholars until now that many of these artists not only continue to work, they had the most productive years in their whole careers. Sometimes max beckman, the great german painter, he left nazi germany in july 1937. Human to the netherlands. By 1940 the germans had overrun the netherlands and suddenly surrounded by nazis again. The germans in amsterdam during the war allowed him to work. They allowed him to procure campuses and painting supplies. Max ekman produced over 700 campuses. A lot of paintings. Jesse was persecuted. He suffered hardship. He was threatened. He had interactions with figures and that was dangerous. But for him it was an incredibly exciting atmosphere and he worked like mad and he had i would say the most productive period of his whole career during the war. People recognize the modern artists continue to work, that our dealers continue to sell modern artworks all the way to 1945, and even though hitler officially band modern art and a behind the scenes back rooms of our dealerships, you could write these modern works in the artists continue to make a living in our trade continues in the same period host in your book, professor petropoulos, you talk about public kosovo. Guest picasso i think represents the great myth of culture in the third right in occupied europe. All modern artists were anti nazi and were persecuted and suffered tremendous hardship and difficulty and only after 1945 had they recovered their lives and continue on and they were victims. The nazis and then and sometimes they claim nazis would come to their studios and smell their brushes to see if they been working, it does not oil paint was still on the brushes. The reality was very different. Most modern artists were able to continue their word and they had free spaces to do their work. He had a very productive for because people left in peace and order to paint. Beforehand he was a public figure, a celebrity and it was hard to get worked done. During the war he was able to be very productive. Some people come and visit him. Some germans said we have the great german raider who was stationed during the lord and we talked about what it was like to be an artist and a fair break and some other officers. There is the apocryphal were one of them points to a sketch in his paintings that protested the fascist civil war and the officers said did you do that to which they apply no, you did. Mostly he was left in peace. He had a great deal of money in a swiss bank account. He didnt need to earn extra money. He had resources. He claimed that he was not selling the works he was producing during the war and im prepared to believe that. He had made earlier pre1940 they were for sale at Art Galleries in paris in occupied france. One could buy and sell works by the cost so. Later after the war he presents himself as a communist, antinazi, almost a third member of the resistance. Its very different from the reality of the sword break out of my genocide was a lot of work. Host what happened to some of these socalled collaborators after the war . Did their reputation survive . Guest for the modern artist for the most part yes. Again, they could take refuge in the myth of modern artists were against the nazis and nazis were against art and used that to their advantage. There was one group of french artists who have difficulty. This included andrei dell hand and also the sculptor who had gone on a trip to germany during the war. Over sharon on the break or had reached out to their french counterparts and said come on this tour to look at the art of nazi germany, this cultural exchange. If you do so, we really see cert number of french prisoners of war and that is how to read artists were leeward over for the propaganda spec goal. I am not sure. It is not clear of french pows were released, but it damaged the reputation of the french artists. They were viewed as collaborators. Recently i saw a and exhibition critique in london just last week and erased history where he gone to germany during the war and brigade him as a collaborator. If you went to germany and he was seen as part of the propaganda spectacle, there is the fact that one career. If one lived quietly in france or the netherlands brave even germany itself and worked quietly and sold once works with our dealers to continue this area. One could continue after the war with very little difficulty. The modern artists for the most part, they propagated the postwar period. Their accounts, they further the mythology of during the third right. Emile malta, he wrote his memoirs after the war and he devoted about 10 pages to his career during the third right. Basically he portrayed himself as a big done, someone who had retreated to the studio in a rural area and you painted watercolors, the unpainted pictures. Because gestapo was inspecting his paintings for oil and have been prohibited from making Oil Paintings, he did these watercolors. In fact, he was never prohibited from painting with oils. He did have a ban on his profession. He was not supposed to be exhibited publicly, that he was allowed to grieve privately and he actually painted about two dozen Oil Paintings during the war. The story is not true. Its alive. His income during the war was appreciable. In 1940 the head of the gestapo reportedly how is that possible the 2000 makes marks a year. Hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars. The reality is he was just fine, paper trade himself is a bit of who have retreated to the immigration. It is common to create narratives and mythologies into concealed the more incriminating material. I was very struck by the drawings of modernist heroes like Walter Gropius where they are sketching wasik heads into their designs because both ropey as for submitting entries for nazi competitions. One of these german work friend facilities putting in their drawings swastikas. It showed how much they wanted acceptance and an opportunity to work. Those drawings were not published in the 1950s and 60s and its only now with generational change that we are getting to these materials to raise these questions. Host here is the book. It is Jonathan Petropoulos is the author, professor of european history at Claremont Mckenna college. Artist under hitler, collaboration survival in nazi germany. You are watching boat tv on cspan2 from Claremont Mckenna college in claremont. Ed morrissey, in your new book going right, who are the 2 million voters you talk about . Voters in seven key counties, seven key swing states that republicans won in 2004. So we are looking not bellwether counties and places like florida, virginia, otto, north carolina, new hampshire, colorado and wisconsin. Republicans havent quite won wisconsin yet. Because of the changes that occurred the last few years, a pretty Good Opportunity is there. The idea is to find out who they are because the key theory in the book is the reason why republicans when elections in those counties that cant won president ial elections is because the National Level has lost touch with who the voters are the local level. Lets go to Hamilton County, ohio. Who are some of the voters that republicans have lost and how can they get them back . Hamilton county is an interesting case because the only net population loss over the last few decades. People coming in from other parts of the country, carrying their native political elections with them. Hamilton county is the one where people have left and it had a pretty significant population decreased over the last 30 to 40 years. The people who are left are the people who didnt have the economic mobility to have those options to leave. Youre stuck in the bluecollar workers. People who work hard, dont work necessarily in highpriced firms. There were two of their hands and worked to put food on the table. Republicans have an opportunity to make a case for economic liberty based on who the people are and let their particular issues are. The problem you have with the Republican Party one of the most republican counties in a very republican state, even when ohio would vote for a democrat, Hamilton County was very republican. It was a very red county and over the last two president ial elections they voted for barack obama in a very blue county. One of the reasons is republicans will message on the economy by using an ideological or philosophical argument that is what i say 30,000foot level. Free markets, lower regulation, but thats all. They dont talk about the fact for instance in cincinnati, the epa is requiring two separate sewage system with a very expensive project. These are older cities that have emerged system and they want them separated out. The city of cincinnati put together a plan to comply with the epa. They discovered they could do it for 40 less in epa refused to reopen the issue. As a result, you have people who will pay hundreds of dollars a year in extra utilities costs. People dont have that kind of disposal income just because the epa will not come back and reopen the process and allow the city of cincinnati to do it less expensively, more efficiently. If you cant talk about regulation stifling local economies and taking money out of your pocket, you should know about this issue with the metropolitan Water District and why its costing them hundreds of millions of dollars more than it should and by the money will come directly out of the pockets of the issuance. Talk about that. That makes the economic issue, and economic argument much more personal. Its a much greater economic connection. That is for barack obama did in 2008 and 2012. He learned about communities to the fabulous organization, fabulous network of people across the country. When they talk about issues like the economy and the governor worked better. The ambassadors talk about this and say these types of things im going to fix when i become president. Thats one of the reasons why people have such an emotional connection to barack obama in 2008 and why its the same for 2012. Host stacy picked him up that here are all must wins for republicans when the president the, florida, wisconsin, ohio, colorado. Why wisconsin a special case . Is interesting because republicans havent won wisconsin. For us, Ronald Reagan won wisconsin twice in his election. Normally this is a date that stays pretty blue. Scott walker got it in 2010 in the afghan reforms or this is a very divisive issue in the state of wisconsin, but its paid a lot of dividend. One study that just came out in late february showed the state and local governments had saved 5 billion over five years. Thats the message people are talking about when they talk about trimming government regulation and making things work more efficiently. Scott walker and the Wisconsin Republicans have opened a period that is 10 Electoral College votes. That is better than colorado. Thats certainly better than new hampshire. The Electoral College vote is usually can edit a keith vote for parties to win because it says something about the reach of their national message. If republicans pick wisconsin out of the democrats and put it into their policy, they really think its feasible to do that. That really resets the whole midwest rust belt for republicans than one in wisconsin would show that kind is trained throughout the entire region. That would be difficult for democrats to counter. Postcode at morrissey, what is your day job . And Senior Editor at hot air. Com. I do it twice a week podcast and also by columns for the fiscal times for the week. Host in this election season, have any of the candidates on what you are suggesting here and going red . Guest if you take a look at the primary races so far, ted cruz has actually done a very good job of getting on the ground in iowa especially. Apparently in oklahoma as well here in a lot of things about the ted Cruz Organization that tend to make me think hes on the right track with the exception of iowa, which is a purposea. Oklahoma and texas is easy. We dont necessarily know how is calling and swing voters in this date in the fractured primary, too. Youre only working within the Republican Party primaries. Its not a great analog necessarily. The organizational level is there for ted cruz trademark or disorganization is decent as well. Donald trump is the burial because of the Republican Party in 2008 and 2012 in terms of messaging, donald trump is that the 40,000 level. Very punchy. Concept only. Doesnt necessarily offer a detailed substance behind it, but he talks about my commitment im going to make this work and when and people are responding to that in the primary. Its interesting to see how that will work out of donald trump is the nominee, does he switch to a ground game of the type that is described in going red or does he try to stay at the thousand foot level and see if he can bring in people through just sheer messaging and status alone. It would be an interesting task. Host at morrisseys new book is called going red, the voters who elect the next resident and how conservatives can win. This is the tv on cspan2
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