System, help with brain size. She is interviewed by gina kolata. Medical reporter for the new york times. Sylvia, i really liked reading you book. So minute fun and fascinating. And why dont people understand this. Its been a problem for so long. Why is itstill a problem . And i like about your bark bus you have a lot another person stories, people struggling withate, yourself, scientists and i was drawn into the book from page one. Think almost everybody would relate to us. I thought maybe people like to hear what your book sounds like. So if you could read page one and start opened the anecdote. Guest thank you. This is my personal story about how i got a writing this book and the prologue. Its breezy friday even in fall in san diego. Was a biochemistry ph. D student out to din with friends after a full week of research, classes and teaching. I had had a strong interest in biology since grade school, particularly in how the body malfunctions and the we we treat it. The idea that tiny molecules affected our health and quality of life was fascinating to me. Was excited tolash so much about the ebber workings of the body, another interest hugged at miment constantly, my weight. I measured success in how well i did at staying thin. Keeping my fat in check had never been easy for me and i watched my weight closely. On this day, like every other, i counted my kolerys my calories. I stayed away from anything fun, know sugar, alcohol none. Had run for 30 minutes and lift weighs and i knew i was on my way to fitness victory. I held and ordered a small sad salad and water was bracing going to bed hungry. That was my secret of keeping my side small and get into my skinny jeans. If could retain this wait i would be asked out of dates and fill confident about my future. But instead of feeling proud of my dieting achievement that night something happened that would forever change the way i viewed my body. Something profound that confirm was not normal. What happened . My best friend ordered a beer and burrito and ate it all. That seemingly trivial event changed everything. She was 411 and 95 pounds. She never went to the gym. She drang a sugary latte and ate fast food. She worked in the lab like me and hunched over a computer but was able to pack in a large burrito, cheese,rice, in a flour tort ya and then dune beer as if it were nothing unusual. No look of guilt, not appearance of worry. She made no comment about feeling sick after eating or she would need to run of the trend med, nothing. All just a normal, everyday occurrence to eat that burrito at 8 00 in the evening and her egypt were smaller than mind jo so unfair. Against the lose physics. Werent we told a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, and if you just eat a certain amount of calories you will not be fat and if you eat more then youre going to suffer the consequences. And that setoff awe on the past to figure this out. Guest so many of those stories. That was college and life didnt get easier. I started a career. Had a couple of kids. Host what was your career. Guest a scientist. Host doing what. Guest i went over to the business side. Host what kind re research. Guest alzheimers, i was looking at memory and launching and things like that and alzheimers. And also i referred to, approaching looking for a job, someone said to me if you dont have a burning question, dont go into research because of lot of zachary sacrifice, dont get paid well and its a long path. So i liked looking the big picture so i got my mba and worked on developing drugs for very diseases and thin had this burning question. Just ken noticing people who can eat a lot and dont exercise much and theyre thinner than me and i went on a number of diets, worked with personal trainers. I lost some weight but some diets i gained wake and no one could understand thus. So felt like defying the laws as we know them. I wanted to figure this out. Not one more diet. My fat is different. I game it easier, its soft e. Than other people. Host oh due you its a soft er . Guest the way people are dressed. I notice everything. I gain faster and i look different and dont have the same responses to food and i thought i have my ph. D in biochemistry and ill figure this out and i researchedded everything i could five. Pulled out a thousand ans out of scientific lilt tour, spoke to 50 researchers about the research on fat and i found out what was so astounding and surprising and i wanted to let everybody know what i fend and this is the book. Host what is the most surprising thing. Fat is not just fat. Its not just an reserve of calories. Its an endocrine organ and releases hormones our body depends on. So our brain size is linked to fat. The are people who havea detick defective fat and have a smaller brain. Our bone strength is linked to fat. Our reproductive systems are linked to fat. Women get too over fat cant reproduce, dont fat is linked to healthy fat because of the hormones and because thats so important nature has ways to protected it. So when we true to lose fat, because fat produces leptin, which has a direct link to our appetite and metabolism and it drives to eat more and drives our metabolism down and fat fights to get back. So we might not value fat but nature values or fat and its a struggle. Host you have a story about a girl who didnt have any fat or almost no fat. That was amazing people emwould say how great. Somebody that doesnt have any fat. What happened to her . You said with fat you need you have something called leptin which makes you want to eat if you dont have enough fat. So if you dont have any fat, what happened to your drive to eat. Guest a story at kristina who i interviewed and talk oh did you find her. Guest i was looking at different affects of not having enough fat or too much fat. Looking tends of the spectrum and talking to doctors and researchers they knew about this girl, kristina, and she was a very normal girl, growing up in new jersey, and then at 12 she started to have a problem and that the start to lose fat. First her fate and then body and developed an enormous appetite. Didnt have to be something to taste good. Eat a can of mushrooms, anything she could find and up usual pairing and she start getting blisters on her skin as well. And they were painful. Started to become inflammed, and at first they thought she growing and has a big appetite. But the blistered drove hem to the doctor and a term dermatologist took her panel and her triglyceride level was 100 times level. The sugar level and cholesterol levels were five times higher than normal. And send her to an endocrinologist and that thought she had diabetes and treated already for diabetes but she continued to lose weight and her appetite was the same. Didnt help her. So he was befuddled and remembered seeing a lecture at nih and sent her tometabolic disease unit and the was together i with lepidrostphyand the person starts to lose fat tissue. On their face and everywhere else they start to have almost no fat tissue at all, and because our fat produces leptin, and without it she couldnt stop eating. So host where did all the calories guest a great question. They circulated in her blood endlessly and all these nutrient had too place to 0. Fat is a space to deposit things in our blood and you have to eat everything you need every second of the day. So fats are storage that keeps our blood clean so she can funk. He liver was eight times the size of a normal liver, protrudes into her abdomen, and the blisters on her skin were fatfilled blisters that made it hard for her to move at times. They gave herm took out her blood and two clean and it the doctor said her blood was cream colored so full of fat and cholesterol and she would have to do this three times a week. When it was discovered that fat made leptin, she was able to get some leptins and she was able to get inesques and her appetite finally subsided and then she ate less and she was able to resolve her diabetes issues. Host but she never got the fat. Guest didnt come back. Host did she work weird. Guest emaciated. So these people will never be normal and healthy. Thought that she would have an early death and she is going on now and its hard life but for anybody who wishes they could not have fat, thats great case study to understand and appreciate your fat. What it is doing not just fl for the storage of calories and also for the hormones its creating and what affect that has on our body. Host an amazing story. Did you write about the girl who had no leptin as well. Guest thats right. And so host remind us. Help tip is something that your fat sends to your brain, and help tip tells you legal continue tens you, you want to eat. So i you dont have leptin . Guest rather than just sitting there holding her calories its processing hormones, letch tis inone and it produces leptin and goes into the blood stream and actually goes and binds with your brain so fat is talking. Its sending out signals and orchestrating and doing things so when we dont have enough leptin, its signal we dont have enough fat. Something is wrong. We have to start eating and there are people dont have enough leptin or their fat is not producing leptin, and either case your brain thinks it doesnt have any fat and gets you to keep eating. A pathological drive to eat. And there was a girl in britain and from four monthed old she had this enormous drive to east. And she gained weight. An obese child. She would go through the trash when she was looking for food and was caught breaking into a locked freezer to eat raw, frozen fish. Its not normal. Something amiss. And no one knew this and he got blamed for hit, her parents blamed for not controlling her child and they put her in a hospital. Thought they could restrict her calories. But what happened is she didnt lose weight. Even on restricted calories. She continued to gain weight just more slowly. And so it was very perplexing, and finally she was sent over to the university of came brim, steven oreilly, an expert, and this is one of the obg they discovered read a paper on this and thought maybe she has this problem, this defective gene. So he tested for it and century enough she had a deeffect defect and doesnt make leptin so they got it figured out and she turned into a normal child. Went from an eating machine into someone who could funk noally and lost wait and lost weight and looked normal, and these kids they usually diane early death from complications of obesity and having this leptin and discovers that fat i not just a reserve of calories or something that is a sign of slough and glutly. Its an important gluttony, its an important organ and they can get the hormone that fat makes and lift normal lives. Host so, fat is really important as like something that is sending signals to your brain and to your body. Its nat just something that is inert. That leaves us with the question that you started with, whoa are some people fatter than others . Why arent we all just perfectly uniform in the amount of fat . There should be an ideal amount of fat. Guest that was the question that set me on this big research. Host thats why i asked. Guest now that we know what fat is, its reserve of calories and an endocrine organ and theres all kinds of reason we get fat and the obvious one people eat too much, dont exercise host you talked about a girl thathave any leptin and cooperate stop eating but there was no too much for her because she had signal saying to eat and the same thing with kristina. So, what is too much . Your brain is telling you your brain tells you how much to eat. So is too much is more than chat your brain wants . So. Guest too much is where youre getting more fat and youre not healthy anymore. Too much fat. People can be fat but fit and i write about that in the book. We vilify fat and is associated with some diseases and so depends on where your fat it. Theres the foot under our skip, safe for deposit effect. Thats the also under our stomach wall. This real fat the more unhealthy type of fat and when that fat when it gets crowded and gets informed, starts to enter five with signaling and thats the type of fat associated with diabetes and heart disease, and so i did talk about sumo wrestlers which are these people whoa are fit but fat and sumo wrestlerseat 4,000calories a day, usually weigh 400 pounds, the thousand calories a day but they exercise, six and seven sures a day, and another trick for fat it elysee another hormone that helps keep ore blood clean of fat. It says please come them to subcutaneous fat, safe place to store fat. Because of all the exercise the sumo wrestler they have a high level and it keeps then healthy so they have the subcutaneous fat and dont have as men metabolic diseases. When they do that get that heavy on purpose . Host ey. Host you had storied about peek at Rockefeller University and others that did the reverse. Some stories where people who were very heavy and lost a lot of weight, in a metabolic ward in a hospital and other stories where people as a part of an experiment agreed to just try to lose weight or game weight and start out at normal weight and its not that easy to control your late. Can you tell us about experiments where people were fat and made to lose weight, people who are normal and to lose weight or made to gain weight and what happens when people are at a weight that isnt what their brain want. Guest that gets back to the leptin story. Something is wrong with fat. So, fat produces leptin. When re lose fat we lose leptin and that spins us on the drive to want to eat more andreplace that fat. Binds with our muscle and thyroid gland and its a signal we dont have enough fat, something is amiss in the world. We have to conserve energy so that combination of having a higher drive to eat, lower metabolism, its making the fat come back and there are mri studies where people are shown images of food after they lost 10 of their weight and theyre a bit more aroused and those inhibor centers the brain are diminished so more drive to eat and less ability to control and it takes an enormous amount of strength and will to maintain that for a long time. So people who have lost 10 of their weight they have to eat 22 fewer calories than somebody who has not had the loss of weight. Someone who is 170pounds and has lost 20 pounds to get to 150 have to eat 22 fewer calories than somebody who is naturally at 150pounds without having to diet. So its a caloric penalty once you lose weight. This is not just that you want to eat and its harder. People dont realize, they give in slowly so you think you can diet for six months, you lost weight, youre good to go. The thing is youre not good to go because the effect, has been observed for six years, not certain whether it goes away for everybody. So whatever diet you pick you have to plan to stay on this permanently. Host what about people who as part of the experiment gained weight and made themselves fat when they werent fat to begin with. Guest the same thing. Pulling the rubber band and not the direction that the drive to come back so for them, too, they have to eat more than somebody who is naturally the weight. The person gaining 20pounds to get to 150 eats more calories than the person at 150pounds naturally. So you have a set point in your body. Your body wants to stay there and takes a lot of effort to change that. Dont know its impossible to change. It is possible. People gain wait permanently and stay that way. People who permanently lose raith but its harder tharp the diet industry leads you to believe. Supposed to be dieting is easy, cut out carbs carbs and if it dt work, youre doing something wrong. That is math. But their all kind odd of reason some people get fatter than others and if if yoyo die yet diet that might be too much for you, general craig, and you have to be conscious of that. The other part is studies in genetics, studies with bacteria ask viruses, different thing that lead to fatness as well. Gender, having two x chromosome is is recipe . Host what is going thereon . Thats not fair. Guest its not fair and watching my husband eat ice cream every night and stay in his college jeans. My. My husband does that. Its unfair. Guest girls, even from the time theyre been, have more fat than boys and theres been these studies where they collect birth data around the world and at any age girls have more fat than boys and just continues into life, and a couple reasons for it. One is something called nutrient partitioning and women partition into fat instead of muscle and lean mass. You eat 30 and women partition 20 of the fat. But the other part was so interesting is women interact with their fat differently. So we dont use it the same way as men. When we are fasting overnight or exercising a lot, womens bodies reach for fat more and use and it you think this would be great. Host should be because you areogy it. Guest men ream for protein and the thing is as soon as the moment is over, women store fat much more efficiently so we are putting more nutrients back into fat faster then men. So theyre not hanging around but makes us a bit softer compared to men. Women up to a certain point have less metabolic disease than men because of this effect. One good side, keeping us healthier. And people dont react to exercise the same. Doing a hard bout of exercise, like burning off 600 calories we release a hunger hormone from the stomach so we have 33 were mow hungry after Something Like that and even of we eat the level stays elevated 20 and men dont have that sim response. So were driven to using a 0 fat to get bak on. People argue thats revolutionary reasons. We have to reproduce and and it is keeping us healthier and theres reasons, some good to having some of this fat. Host thats pretty amazing. So, why so fat, i guess, its hard to loseweight because the leptin is making you eat more and women tend to be fatter than men because they partition their fat differently, and its used differently, and they get hungrier faster. Its a lot of unfairness going on. So, then i have a couple other question is wanted to ask you. Where are they . Okay. Oh, yeah, this is a great one. Bacteria and viruses. Do they have anything to do with obesity . You kind of wouldnt expect it but your book makes you think, maybe they do. Guest there are a lot of different components have howe how we get fat and gender is one part but viruses. Canine e distemper, causing when people hear theres a virus that can cause it in humans it causes some alarm. Host it does. You could catch it. Guest im not sure thats not true. All that said host stay around a fat person you can get fat. Guest you dont have to be. When i talk about gender and genetics and related to fat, age and hormones and bacteria and viruses will affect your fatness and how easy to get fat. They dont mean you have to be obese. You still can control but it will be harder for you. Will say that. Talk about a man named randy who got a virus and had to work hard at it. But what the virus is, is that it called 8036 and discovered by a man who had notice of a noted a similar virus in indiana. India and this virus was infecting chickened but when they got the virus that would gain fat and he thought this was very unusual. Usually when you get sick, things lose fat. So he was studying this, a virus causing fat. He would infect other chicken that were healthy. They would start to get fat and he looked for people who ever had the virus and people who ever had the virus had a much higher likelihood of being fat compared to people who didnt. He got so excited. The research he decided to come to america and study this and tee vote his life to linking virus and obesity so he moves to u. S. And his story is a great story. When he gets to u. S. He cant get a job and he miraculously gets a john with Richmond Adkins the university of wisconsin but then cant the virus think u. S. Wont import it from india so he has to pick a virus and picked one that hat just about the same qualities, and that virus is 803 ad36, and what they determined is that it actually helps absorb glucose out of your blood. Host the virus no fakes how your cells work and opposite you get virus you have more absorption of glucose. You create more fatty molecules. More fatty also acid and predisposes stem cells to turn into fat cells instead of bone. Host youre making more fat cells. Guest at the same time. Host i thought people cooperate make new do guest stem cells can be converted to bone or fat or all kinds of things. When people go from a size 6 to a size 20, they have to have mad fat cell. Host with this virus you make now fat cells and then fell with fat. Guest yes. Theres about a theres a lot of studies that have been done on it now and overall its about double the risk of obesity if you have this virus. Again it doesnt mean you have to be. Just means youre absorbing more glucose. Thats kind of scary. Is it found . Do the chicken farmers get the virus and get fat . Who is getting cincinnati i dont know that answer is completely elucidated yet. I tell the story of one patient who had it and he was scratched by a rooster on the farm as a child. It hadnt been studied, but knowing about chickens in india he connected this but he strokinged with his weight for decades. He said his appetite increased and had a hard time getting his weight down and went back and forth, and finally got 350 pounds in his 40s and one of the doctors referred him to a university of wisconsin, the great Obesity Program and it was the richard atkinsons program who were tieding ad36 and they tested him and he was carrier of the virus. And it was a Big Education program. They told him what the virus is, how it affects people, and told them about leptin and after learning all of this, the patient named randy felt so empowered. Finally understood his fat and why he had all these problem. Its great case where knowledge is power. Host then how do you use it. Guest a he does a whole bunch of thing. He puts a lot the program was different. He should be part of that to his success. A lot of. The get there, lets look at what you did wrong. This one is youre here, now its handcuff at the time what is going on. So he felt empowered and felt more embold ended to cut calories and exercise more. He had a gastric bypass surgery but he is silver diligent about counting calories and is 62 in great shape now. Host did the gastric bypass surgery get rid of the virus . Guest no. Host thats too bad. Poor guy. Guest really. Host scratched by a rooster and your fat do. Guest i probed can you get this virus and they cant tell me know. Theyre not sure. Host thats kind of scary because theres so much prejudice now against fat people and if people think that fat people spread their obesity to them, what is that going to do to discrimination against fat people. Guest its not that prevalent. They think around 10 of people are more might have it. Its not tiny but not everybody, and even if you have it, it doesnt mean you have to be obese or you have the be fat. You might gain weight easier. Host thats not what anybody wants to hear. I guess im just concerned because there is people already shun people who are fat. And you kind of dont want anybody to think, well, if you get around a fat person you might get this virus and get fat, too. We have all worked with people, lived with people, who have real weight problems, and hasnt always rubbed off on us. Guest yeah. I dont think its prevalent. Im not sure hough its transmitted so im hoping this doesnt happen. My point is to illustrate the different i. Host i just get worried about the discrimination out the anyway. Thats the last acceptable thing to discriminate against, somebody who is fat. Just openly discriminate. So i just wanted to ask you about that. Just because i was a little worried. Okay. What about we have all known people whothe older they get, the fatter they get. So many people were thin when they were young, and then by middle age they gain 20, 30pounds. What is going on . You told us theres a set point, your brain decided how much your weight is. Does it change you when be old sneer almost a force of nature we accumulate more fat. We lose homer mons and fatbusting hormones. They decline with age so growth hormones helps us grow and kept our fat member tab lieding, that declines, testosterone declines in age, and so you cant eat what you did when you were 22. And itsnot just the level of fat. Its the distribution that is affected as well. So women gain more fat to in their hips and thys and men get more belly fat. And one study on runners 5,000 male runs and the matter what mileage they were running every week, with age they gained weight, and he in order to keep weight low you have to increase your weekly running miles by 1. 4miles a week. So someone who is running ten miles a week when theyre 30, be them time their 40 theyve have to run more miles to still fit into that suit. I just want to get into the screened hormones are one reason for that certainly. But theres a case a possibility that fat gets more protective as we age as well. Something called the obesity paradox where they find that people who are really dont have diseases like heart diseases, diabetes, sometimes theyre just slightly overweight they do better than people who are normal weight of underway and its actual the obesity paradox. When you have a traumatic issue, people who have a little more fat do better, have a lower mortality rate so its an unanswered thing. We vilify fat but more and mow Research Shows fat is not just fat. Its an organ that is doing things were not aware of. And so thats another sign that theres more to fat than we think. They might be protective and might bev doing other things as we age. Women, going through menopause, we have lest estrogen from our ovaries and fat produces estrogen and women depend on their fat for estrogen and might be its a reason why its hard to lose for women after menopause. Host so probably good thing that people they might not like the way they look but for their health its probably good to be gaining weight as you get older . Guest people who are overly thin ive head in relatives who are pretty thin, and they were actually told by their doctors to gain some swathe weight. Host were they able to do that . Its not that easy to gain weight. Guest by the time theyre of the age, 50s in and 60s, theyre habits are ingrained and they did begin a little wait. Just had to eat an awful lot to gain the weight. Host you mention that people can fat and fit. Can you tell us about that people who are fat but fit. Guest dels on where you fat and is thats not all fat is equal, fat under your skin, visceral fat in your belly and brown fat and brown fat produces heat. So burns north produce heat. White fat which will store the energy, and have to be aware of all the fat you have, the different deposits and what it is doing. The visceral fat is learninged cardiovascular diseases. And people have more fat in their visceral they can be fit but fat and have Research Mice with higher levels of the hormones, fat produces something that keeped out ebola clean and keep is in subcutaneous fat, a safer deposit and these mice are very fat but healthy. They dont have metth met sumo wrestler have the fat in their subcutaneous. Host how much exercise to do to be fit but fat. Guest one study showed that 20 hours of aroar pick 20miles of running a week is able to increase the levels and produce real fat. The other one was three bouts of hits a week. So high intensity interval training, which is one part is of that 20 seconds of intense exercise, 10 seconds of lighter exercise and do that for eight cycles. People who did that the times a week were able to get the level up and reduce visceral fat. Host are there diminishing returns . Suppose you want to do more run organize high intensity exercises. That. Guest i dont the theres a firm answer on that yet. Certainly we see sumo wrestles exercise a lot and they stay very heavy but fit. The studies where they show what kind of exercise and its elevating the levels itch dont know theres a followup study where they tried for mow. Its all fairly new and were opening our mind about fat. Hope any were in this time now where we are looking at the science of fat and willing to say its not just sloth and gluttony. Theres Something Else going on and the obesity epidemic has put more Research Dollars into studying obesity and what is fat and how does it function . And the more we do this its new now and we have gotten some great signals how fat is really an organ, releasing hormones and hopefully much more will come now that we start to open up the box look at fat as an organ. Host one question that people always ask and im not sure theres an answer. Why have people gotten fatter than they used to be . Guest so many answers to that question. I think everybody has an answer to that question. One thought is theres more hidden carbs so when you have a lot of carbs youre provoking insulin. Host when i was kid, people ate such junk all the time inch his news family they had bakery for breakfast, lunch and dinner, cover fee cake at breakfast. I wonder about this stuff that now were eating this. I said when i was a kid we ate a lot of carbs and they didnt even have diets drinks. Only drank full sugar stuff. Guest thats one. Another one is genetics at play here so not everyone responds to foot food the same day. Theres Interesting Research in israel, taking people have them eat different food and measures blood gun glucose, and the supreme can eat ice cream and others cant and they have big response. So, all programmed slightly differently, and im sure genetics plays a role in that. And theres certain populations that will gain more fat on a western diet compared to other populations. And these indians have a threaty geno type and they had familiar anyone and normally hunters hund farmers bud hat famine and the people who survived were thought to have this type that helped them enduring temperature times of no food and water and adverse conditions. So when these people get on to western diets they gain more weight than westerners would. So the puma thens halt three times to the owes obesity rate as another island theyre finding the same thing, people gain more. I thought it was one of my issues. Im eastern indian, and yes, theyre famine in eastern india and something i have, too, genetics working against me. That could be another reason. Were now more of a melting pot. More people coming in, sharing gene plagues the fact that foot it so much more abundant and cheaper make a difference . Never been so cheap so you dont have to be hungry. Guest i dont know about that. Food has always been accessible for a long time, and so it could be. It could be that its convenience foot. I think were busier than we have been. Working households do. Host i grew up when they invenned tv dinners dinners and invented tv dinners and every high thought sis you can say but hypothesis you can say but, but, but. Guest its difficult. Ethnogenetics have been brought into this, the with a they mels with almost like what we do is patterned on the dna. The one study i saw where people exercise with one leg and they didnt exercise with the other leg and compare the imprinting on dna its different. Genes express differently depending on what you do and one thought is are people inheriting that . And are we passing on oowe beesty from one generation to another. Its all agrees area of wonder and i think theres probably whole bunch of different thingses could be viruses and bacteria, could be genetics, theyre more fast food and more hidden sugars. What do you do now . I think some interesting things on the horizon. Leptin replacement therapy. Host if you have this leptin therapy, you would trick your brain into thinking youre fat when youre not fat and your bryant wouldnt tell you to keep eating. Guest thats right. Our youre satisfied. Tate off on the horizon. We dont have it yet. And trying to understand peoples individualize a diet that works for you. Host cant you just keep trying one diet after another and find one that works for you. Guest thats what i did. Host tell bus how you did that. Guest because all this Great Solutions are off on the horizon, theres the here and now. Do you do hormone replacement therapy. Im middle aged. Has a risk benefit profile. Diet pills but the obvious one is diet and exercise and that is one thing that no matters whats going on, thats something we have to work with. Thats mundane and not exciting answer that people hope for, but there are lot of diet books on the shelfs saying they found this magic answer, and if it work ford you do and it stay on it. But for the rest of us you have to experiment. What it, is being scientific, astarted a spreadsheet of everything i did, and i started writing down what i ate, what time, and how much coffee did i have. Started tracking everything. If i underslept a certain day i would flag that and do impair cal observation and understand when i gained and didnt. Host you head what you ate, how much you query exercised. Yes. Guest and medication, as prison, as prison. Teak me a couple of months to figure out what was working and what didnt, and so i finally started out i have incredibly stubborn fathom bag female and having two x chromosomes doesnt happen. My genetics are at play here. Have to work harder than most people. Its easier to look at a diet plan and say you can have this great plate of foot. Dont have to be hungry, and people buy it. Theyre hopeful. They want that to himself found the truth i found the truth and is i cant eat that. My body is different. And different dish dont dish dont know what formal is. If normal is what is defined by the diet industry im not that. And so i learned i have to eat less, a lot less than most people. Host how much is a lot less. Guest when i was dieting, really battling stubborn fat i its a thousand calories. I eat a little more than that now. I started higher and rationed back until i started seeing wait loss. Host were you really hungry all the time . For a while i was. I started doing intermitt extent fasting into if i ate at 6 00 or late i wouldnt lose weight but if i its earlier i could bust the stub been family. Host what about your family life . Sat there with a glass of water . No pretty much and if i wanted something to eat but i didnt eat dinner and it was dish guess i guess concerning to them and put a crimp in date night but got easier with time. The beginning i was hungry and talk about my own experience, what it fell like and i would fan to size about food fantasize about food, the story of the leptin and i was driven to eat and my body was working hard but i understood my fat now. What is difference this time is i knew every trick it was doing. Was withholding me leptin that and was making my hungry. My metabolism was lower and i was plateau and so i could fight on the same terms as my fat was fighting and gave me great determination once i standard i felt like knowledge was power and ill carry on, and so i enjoyed the hunger. Took six weeks for it to subside and i still do intermittent fasting and i can cook dinner with the kids and have a couple respond but i dont eat at night even now. So it gets easier with time and keep an own mind. Host you suggest that other people do the kind of spreadsheet you did. Guest thats good for everybody. Youre trying one diet after another. Theres not one diet that fits all. Diet has to work on some many different levels, biologically. Your body has to respond and depending on your general net ticks, bacteria or age oar hormone levels you might have to change. That might have to modify. That might not be for you and having all this knowledge helped me develop my own diet that works for me. Im not as severe when i was trying to lose but i can eat some foot foods and nothing happens. Like what sunny can eat chocolate. A vanilla laugh day and this war on latte, and they dont make in the gain weight but if i have Chocolate Cookie instead of chocolate i gain weight. Host so its the fat, not the sugar. Chocolate has fat. Guest it doesnt have a lot of flour. Theres something in white flour that makes me gain weight so i can have pure sugar but i cant have not big amounts but i cant have Something Like a brownie or cookie. So that also helped me figure out where i can cheat. Everyone wants to come off once in a while. Its very hard to stay on a strict regiment and its very hard to stay an. So you want to know what kind off things you can do and that worked for me at least, in fact i think the spreadsheet approach is really good helps you tailor a diet to suit you or create your on but a diet has too work socially and psychologically as well. Host thats why i asked you. What happens at dinner at your house . Youre there with a glass of water . Guest yes. Psychologically some food that some people have to have. For know say no sugar allowed, ive tried and it works. Did lose weight. Came off twice because i really wanted Something Sweet and i found that psychologically it wasnt something that i could stay on for the long run. Lifestylewise, matters a lot, too. I have a very supportive family and so i can do this if dont have a job where i have entertain clients. And theres a number of other diets through. A number of them work but pick one that works in all three dimensions, biologyie, socially, it wont be for just six months. Youll be on this for a years. Host what about exercise no. Guest die exercise. Think thats important. Know exercise in the beginning of a diet, a lot of diet exerts tell people not to overdo it because it creates a how longer spike and people overcompensate and takes them off their diet so put in it slowly. Start adding some exercise to it. I have found that its hard get to all the way there without exercise and i have spoken to some expert hospitals say you can get 80 of weight control with food and the other 20 you have to exercise. Exercise has dahl kind odd benefits, ate little lean mass, bone and muscle. Growth hormone goes up after exercise so has an antiaging benefit. Increasing brown fat. So i think exercise is important to add. I do probably three minutes four or five times a week. Do an elliptical. I do high intensity interval training and have four minutes of high intensity and works wonders. So when intermittent fasting and hit my extremely stubborn fat has to give in so i do arrow picks aaerobics, and i talk about some research increasing hormone and testosterone. Host i have two sort of weird questions. One of. The is, what about fat kids . You can put them on spreadsheet and tell them theyre not supposed to eat dip center eat dinner . Guest no. No. I have to work in all kind odd ways. I have to take extra steps but would never put a kid on that diet. Thats tough one. Thats also where more of the puzzle is, why are the kids getting much fatter and almost depends on where you go. When i take my kids to school theyre at a skinny school. The obesity is not at this school but is in other schools so what is leading to that in kids . I think theres a mix of genetics genetics and the lifestyle factor and you have to look at it carefully and should consult a doctor first. Did my own plan and that he kind of eye education to do it. My doctor give me a blessing, too, but certainly the types of food you eat, we can be smarter what we are eating. We can eat the more roughage and fiberrous greens and different bacteria in our gut, some extraction more calories and the more we get rid of fats and we tilt our host with kid try to give them healthier diets and you cant possibly do the spreadsheet being this try to do everything that people have suggested to make sure that they have a lot of roughage, they have healthy food, and just sort of hope for the best. Theres not an easy answer for kid . The parents can do the spreadsheet thing. You can look at what is associate where does my kid seem to be gaining or not gaining. Host one last question. This is going sound crazy. Why do you and they why didnt you just say, okay so my body wants to be fat center why not just be a fatter person . Guest i think for me it was scientific question why and how could i be getting this wrong and why isnt a diet working for in and i had to know the answer. So i had a burning question during my Research Days and graduate school. I had this burning question now. Theres something amiss. Wire some are diets work for some and no anothers. So part of it was really wanting the answer, but the other part is that being in my middle ages theres no going back. Fix this now or ill never fit in that dress. So i die die want to go on or my blood sugar was getting higher. I didnt have all the effects of having a little extra weight but going to start. Was the phase where this would happen. So for me it was now or never moment and i thought i have the tools to research this and i can get the answer, and i didnt have the question before. I have it now and im going to solve this once and for all. So i tell people this, whatever emotion you have, youve it to your advantage use it to your advantage and the emotion i had was kind of anger, what is this senate how is it crawling on my body . How dare it crawl on my body . Started your book with. With your friended. How come she can eat so much and you cant . What is going on with you . Guest yeah. Finally set me on this thing that im going to be in control. Host youre a very stubborn person. Guest very wilful. I have a will of steel so i wont lose and i gain weight from time to time. I kept my weight off for years. At christmas i gained a few pounds and this is another key of dieting. Talk about the psychology of losing weight and theres something called the die dichotomous feeting eating but e to get back on and theres other exercises to do psychological tricks to make these easier for yourself. Its not a decision, not a sacrifice. Just starts to become habit. Host maybe if you accept the fact that maybe at christmas or something you might gain a few pounds, its not like the end of the world, but so what. Youre know from exactly to do other people might have other solutions that work for. The but at least you dont have a magic solution but youre encouraging people to try to find something that works for them, which sounds to me like given the knowledge that people have now, makes a lot of sense. Would think. Guest yeah. Take control of it yourself, dont be so gullible for siren songs. Another piece of another vice. Ash advice. Your book does go through what weve learned and how and who learned them and why are they accepted, so thats interesting. There is a lo a lot i guess peoe just dont know. You will understand it is a great role in your body and why its hard to lose and be empowered to pick a diet that works for you or live with it that is another choice. Hopefully it will change peoples thinking about that. Its important and once people have it isnt as important eat less and there is a lot that goes into it and they meet with patients every week. The. It will be one of the hardest thing you ask a patient to do and it takes more support than people think. And then the prevention will be another thing. We wait for people to get really heavy before they pay for any kind of interventions. At ththe way that is designed th blood supplies and other things. I have to lose 100 pounds, that is daunting. 10 pounds is a different story. Its interesting to see the whole thing laid out. You have the one that found out about the viruses. At least it tells people that there are individuals behind these things and individuals that suffer some of the consequences, too. I hope that it enlightened people. Protesters are gathering for the march for science rally with speeches with musical performances you get very comfortable in that situation and you dont want to give up the comfort. Its to spend more money and grow more government and not solve problems, but to create programs and take credit for those programs. Many of the members of congress are here. Its the best job theyve ever had. Its more important than the actual events that goes on in washington, d. C. Now is a great time for you to silence your phone and i just wanted
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