Stop at the end of the anecdote on page two of your prologue. It was great. Guest this is a personal story about how i got into writing this book in the prologue of the book is called skinny teens. It was a breezy friday evening in the fall in san diego. I was a biochemist phd student at the dinner with my friends after full week of research, classes and teaching. I had a strong interest in biology since a great school, and now the body malfunctions and inventive ways we treat it. The idea tiny molecules affected our health, thoughts and cold of life was fascinating to me. I was excited to be learning so much about the inner workings of the body, and of interest, my weight. Aside from dancing my career, i measured success and how will i did at staying thin. Keeping with that in check and never been easy for me and i watched my weight closely. On this day like every other i counted my calories, i ate i painstakingly balanced combination grains, protein and vegetables. I straight from anything fun. No sugar, carb heavy snacks or alcohol. None of it. I had run for 40 minutes and lifted weights after months of this work i knew i was on my weight towards that this victory. As i sat down to dinner with my friends i held steadfast. Ordered a small salad and water, and like so many days before i was bracing to go to bed hundred. Going to bed hungry is my secret to keeping my 53 frame under 110 pounds and capable of fitting into my skinny jeans. If i could maintain this weight my life would remain in my control. Id look like every other college student. I be asked out on dates and feel confident about my future. But instead of feeling proud of my guiding achievement that night, something happened that would forever change the way i viewed my body. Something profound that confirmed i was not normal. What happened . My best friend ordered a beer in burrito and devoured it all. Yes, that trivial event changed everything. She was 411 and probably 95 pounds. She never went to the gym. She drank sugar lattes and ate fast food. She worked in the lab all they like me and hunched over computer in the evening. Yet some of his petite woman was able to pack in a large stick reader with beans, rice, sour cream, guacamole, Cheddar Cheese come everything all wrapped in a Flour Tortilla and then down at their as if nothing were unusual. She had no look of guilt afterward, no appearance of ward ritchie made comments about being sick or has you need to run the next morning. Nothing. It was all just a normal everyday occurrence to eat at 800 cal burrito at at 8 00 in the evening and her jeans were smaller than mine. Host it seems so unfair. Seems like its against the laws of physics, doesnt it . We are told by calvary is a calorie is a calorie. He did just eat a certain amount of calories you will not be fat and if you eat more than you are going to suffer the consequences. Thats just an incredible story. That set you off on the path to try to figure this out. Guest thats right. That was college and my life didnt get easier after that. Of course i started a career. I had a couple of kids. Host what was your career . Guest a scientist. I store up and research by went over to the business side eventually. Host what kind of research . Guest i was reaching alzheimers. I was looking at memory and learning things like that and more specific alzheimers. As a start to approach looking for a job i think someone said to me, what are my advice is that if you dont have a burning question dont go into research because its a lot of sacrifice. Its a long path and its an uncertain path. At that time i didnt have a burning question really. So i decided i wanted to go into the business side of biotechnology. I like looking at the big picture of things. I got my mba and i worked on developing drugs for various diseases. Later i had this burning question, it just kept happening. I kept noticing people who can eat, lots and they dont exercise and they are thinner than me. I went on a number of diet. I went to personal trainers. I could lose some weight but sometimes i would even gain weight and a perplex me as much as it perplexed a personal trainer. No one could understand this. It felt like defying the laws as we know them. Im going to figure this out. Not one more die. My dad is different. I gained a much easier to its offer than other people. Host how do you know it is softer . Guest the way they dress, its stout fat. Im very bright observant. I notice everything. I just tell. It looks a little different. I dont have the same responses differed that other people seem to have. Anyone can figure this out, i can. Ive got my phd and going to figure this out. I spent five years researching everything there is to know about that. Everything i could find. I pulled out of a 1000 out of the scientific literature. I spoke about 50 researchers around the world about the Cutting Edge Research of that. What a fund that was so astounding, so surprising that if i want to write a book, let everyone know what he found and the secret life of fat is that book. Host whats most surprising thing you found out . Guest what was so surprising is that is not just that. Its not just the riserva calories. Its an endocrine or it can that means that the release of hormones that are to body depends on. Basically our brain sizes linked to fat. There are people who have a defect and part of their brains are smaller. Mice have small ranges will. Our bone strength is linked to fat. Our reproductive system is linked event. Women if they get to look at that level cant reproduce. They dont mean straight regularly. Even our immune system. Its a major survey systems in a body that are linked to healthy fat. Because fat is so important to us, nature ways to protect it. When we try to lose fat, because that produces a direct link to her appetite and our metabolism. When we lose that we lose leptin and drives us to eat more and try to metabolism down. In this wife that is almost fighting to come back to us. We might not value our fat at all. We might want it to all, nature does value our fat. Its a struggle. Host you have a story about a girl who didnt have any fat or almost no fat. That was Pretty Amazing because i think many people would say how great. Heres somebod someone who doese any fat. And you tells what her life was like and what happened to her . You said with fat you are going to something called leptin, which makes you want to eat you dont have enough that. Donovan fat, what happens to your tells the story of this girl. Guest a story about christina who i interviewed and talked host how did you find her . Guest i was looking at different effects of not having enough that are having too much fat. So looking at the ends of the spectrum what happens in those cases and talking to doctors and researchers, they told me about this case study of this girl. Her name is christina and she was a normal girl growing up in new jersey and then around 12 or early teens she starred to other problem. She started to lose that lots of fat. First interface and then the rest of her body as well. At the same time she developed an enormous appetite. It just went to the roof. It didnt had to be something that would taste good. She would eat a can of mushroos come anything she could find. Finally she started getting these blisters on her skin as well. They were painful. They became inflamed and at first they thought shes growing, thats why she is as big appetite, nothing unusual but the blisters drove them to the doctors. They went to a dermatologist. He took her blood panel and saw that she had her triglyceride level was up 100 times normal level. Her sugar level and cholesterol levels were five times what was normal. He quickly ascertained this isnt a dermatologic issue. He sent her to an endocrinologist. That doctor thought she had diabetes and started treating her for diabetes. All the while she was taking diabetes medication she continued to lose weight at her appetite was the scene. Same. It didnt help her. He was befuddled. He remembers seeing a lecture and he sent her to a metabolic disease unit and the doctor diagnosed christine with lipodystrophy. Thats a disorder where the person starts to spontaneously lose fat tissue so they lose it all over their body. It stays in the hands of a bit but on the face and everywhere else they start of almost no fat tissue at all. So because our fat produces leptin which is linked with appetite, when we lose that when theres some leptin and a center appetite very, very high. So christina couldnt stop eating. House of representatives where do all the calories go . Guest thats a great question. They circulate and her blood endlessly. All these nutrients, these fats, cholesterol, sugars had no place to go. That is usually this safe deposit of the extra in a blood and to alleviate this you did exactly what you need to every second of it which is impossible to do. So our fat is a little storage which keeps us safe, keeps her blood safe. She didnt have it. She did not fat. Her liver was about eight times the size of a normal labor. It protruded and her abdomen. The blisters and her skin were fat filled blisters that made hard for to move that sometime. At first they didnt have a cure. They gave her weather took out a blood and it would clean it and the doctor said her blood was creamcolored. It was so full of fat and cholesterol but should have to go through this three times a week. Eventually it was discovered that that makes leptin it wasnt known when she is first set, she was able to get some reluctance and she was given injections. When her appetite by a subsided and what appetite subsided, she ate less inches able to resolve some of her diabetes issues because you have all this extra nutrients like around. Host but she never got the fat . Guest arafat didnt come back. Host did she look weird . Guest she looked emaciated. Her cheeks were very hollow, looked older than she is. But she was able to get her help back in order more or less so these patients have other kinds of issues. They will never be completely normal and healthy but they thought she was in for early death because of issues but takes to discovery of leptin being applicant and injected in her such as him to go on. She got a couple of topic kids come shes married an she stillo on but its a hard life but anyone who wants to given this fact, the wishes they just dont have fact that the great case study to understand and appreciate your fat, what is to not just for the storage of calories which is an obvious function and also for the hormones its creating and what effects that happen on our body as well. Host that was an amazing story. Did you write about the girl who had no leptin as well . Guest thats right. Houston reminded skin can leptin is something your fat sends to your brain and leptin tells you you want to eat . Or if you dont have leptin, what happens . Guest rather than just sitting there holding our calories, its producing hormones, leptin is one of those. It produces leptin that goes into the bloodstream and goes and binds with a brain. In a way fat is talking if its not just sitting there. Its any a signals, its orchestrating doing things. When we dont have enough leptin possessing and we dont have enough fat. Something is wrong, we have to start eating. There are people like christine who either dont have enough that or they have a genetic defect in the fat. That fat is not producing leptin. In e vacation brain thinks that it doesnt have any fat and since you to keep eating. So before leptin was discovered, this wasnt known of course and there was a girl in britain and from the time she was run for months old she just had this enormous drive to eat. Even as a baby. She gained weight. She was an obese child and it wasnt a normal tried to eat. She would go through the trash looking for food when her parents restricted to. Onetime she was caught breaking into a locked freezer to eat raw frozen fish. Its not normal. There was something and this and no one knew this. She got blamed for their car parents got blamed for not controlling their child. At one point they even put her into a hospital because they can restrict the calories, very controlled or private. She can lose some weight. What happened when she didnt lose weight. Even unrestricted calories she continued to gain weight, just more slowly. It was very perplexing, and finally show sent over to university of cambridge, Stephen Oreilly was an expert and Metabolic Diseases and said Stephen Oreilly had read a paper on this and he thought maybe shes got this problem. Shes got this defective gene. He tested her for it and sure enough she had this defect in the gene and she doesnt like leptin. She doesnt make functioning leptin. Once they figure this out they were able to get her leptin like they did for christina come and begin her appetite, the minute, she turned into a normal child. She went from an eating machine into someone who could function normally. Not just about food food and she lost weight. Within a couple of years she looked pretty normal. These kids, theres a sprinkling of them in the world. Theres not a huge indication but they usually have early death from convocations of obesity. That is not just to reserve calories. Its not something that is a site of sloth and gluttony. Its an important organ we have enter body. The discovery has helped people like them because theyve been able to get the hormones that makes and able to look pretty normal after that. Host so fat is really important as like something sending signals to your brain and your body. Its not just something that is inert. That leaves us with the question you started with. Why are some people fatter than others . Why arent we all just perfectly uniform in the amount of fat . There should be an ideal amount of fat. Why are some people fatter treachery that was a question that sent me on this big now that we know what that is, its a reserve, the other question is why do some people can more fat . Theres all kinds of reasons we get fat. The obvious one is people eat too much, didnt exercise enough. Host you just talked about a girl who did that any leptin and she couldnt stop eating, but there was no too much for because she had a signal thing to eat. The same thing with christina. So whats too much . Your brain is telling you from what you just said, your brain tells you how much to eat. Guest too much is when you get a more fat veteran of healthy anymore. Thats what i would do fine. There are people who can be fat but fit. I write about that in the secret life of fat as well. I know we really vilify fat. Its supposed to be associated with some diseases answer depends on where your fat is. Not all fat is created equal. Theres a fat right under our skin that is a deposit. Theres some under our stomach wall which is a more unhealthy type of fat. When that gets crowded it gets inflamed, source interview with signaling and that is a type of fat really easy with Heart Disease. I do talk about sumo wrestlers who are this case of people that but fat. They eat 400 4000 calories a da. They usually wake 400 pounds. Actually they eat more, 7000 cal a a day but the exercise six to seven hours a day. Another trick the fat has been set releases another hormone and that helps keep our blood clean of fat. Its thats own way of saying please come home to subcutaneous fat, a safer deposit of that. It keeps up healthy. Its released upon exercise, something that provokes it really some fat. And because of all the exercise they do, the sumo wrestlers, they have a high level of that and he keeps in healthy. All that they have, its more in the subcutaneous fat than the visceral fat. Surprisingly they dont have as much Metabolic Diseases one might affect. When it come of that diet and stop exercising they do. Host do they deliberately get that heavy . Guest yes. Host you at some stories about people at Rockefeller University and then your other stories who did the reverse. This one story, some stories where people were very heavy and lost a lot of weight. They were put in a metabolic ward in a hospital. Other stories were people who as part of an experiment agreed to just try to lose weight or just trying to gain weight to have a normal way. It doesnt look like its been easy to control your weight. Can you tell us about experiments where people were fat and made you lose weight, people who were normal weight and make you lose weight or made to gain weight, and what happens when people try to be at a weight thats not why the brain wants them to be . Guest thats very interesting. That gets back to the leptin story again. When we lose fat we become almost leptin deficient. Its not too different industry of christina or layla who dont have enough or something is wrong with arafat. That produces leptin when we lose fat we lose it and that senses to drive to eat more, to try to replace that fat. Also leptin binds with our muscles and it binds with a thyroid gland. It drive metabolism low. Our muscles get more efficient when we were lower on leptin. At the scene do we dont have enough fat, something is amiss. We have to conserve energy. So the accommodation of having highehydride to eat, low metabo, and there are studies that at brain activity were people who are showing images of food after they lost some weight they are more aroused my. Theyre a bit more excited at the same time there are inhibitors in the brain that are diminished so that having a more dried eat and thus ability to control. All of that its a recipe to get your fat back. It takes an enormous amount of strengthand will to maintain that for a long time. Some people who, who have lost 10 of the weight they have to eat 22 fewer calories and someone who is not had that loss every. Someone who is 170 pounds and has lost 20 pounds to get t to r calories than someone who is natural at 150 pounds who doesnt have to die. Its a caloric penalty if you will want to lose weight. If its not just you want to eat and are driven to it and its hard to come if people dont realize it, i think they given slowly. You think you can diet for six months, good to go pick the thing is youre not good to go. This effect that has been observed up to six years in studies except certain whether it goes away for everybody, for whatever died to pick to plan to stay on this just about permanently. Host what about people who as part of experiments in weight, made themselves that when they were not fat to begin with, what happened to them . Guest the same thing, pulling the rubber band in opposite directions with the stride to come back. For them, they have to eat more than somebody is natural at the way pick someone who is naturally 150, someone at 130, the people gaining 20 pounds to get one of 50, more calories than the person who is at 150 pounds naturally. You have a set point. It takes a lot of effort to try to change that. I dont know if thats impossible to change it. It is possible. People gain weight permanently and stay that way. People from lose weight but it is harder than what diet industry will lead you to believe. Dieting is easy, cut out carbs or simple steps, 123. If it doesnt work for you, youre doing something wrong against this is math. They should work. Theres all kinds of reasons that some people get fatter than others. One is if you yoyo diet, if you been up and down you need fewer calories than somebody else. The plaintiff with their showing you come in the diet program, jenny craig or anything else might be too much for you and yet be conscious of that. The other part of our studies in genetics, studies with bacteria and viruses, all these Different Things that lea they to fatnesss well, gender, having 2x 2x chromosomes is a recipe for fatness. Host why would a woman get fatter than a man . Whats going on . Thats not fair. Guest document has been eat ice cream every night and stay in his college in jeans no matter what. Host my husband does that, too. Its so unfair. Guest im going to forget why you can do that. I had to go and look for this research, but this was very interesting. So girls in from the time theyre born have more fat than boys and theres been the studies with a collect birth data around the world. At any age girls have more fat than boys. A continues into life. Theres a couple of reasons for what is something called nutrient partitioning where women will partition with the nutrients into fat versus mosso and lean mass. If you eat 100 cal, women might partition about 30 into fat, men would would do less, 20 or 15 just as an example. We are putting a bit more into our fat. The other part i thought was so interesting is women in iraq with a fat differently. We dont use it the same way as men. When we are at an overnight fast or exercising a lot, womens bodies will reach for fat more. You think this would be so great. Men reached for protein more. The thing is as soon as that moment is over, women store fatt much more efficiently as men. Were putting more of those nutrients back into fat at two o to three times higher rate than men do. It away is healthy because were clearing our blood. We are storing in the fat. Its subcutaneous that which a good thing. It does make us a bit softer compared to men come all the women up to a certain point that less metabolic disease than men because of this effect. One good sign. Women dont react to exercise the same. When we do a really hard bout f exercise like burning out 600 calories or so, we release a hug from her mother come from the stomach. Hunger hormone. Even after we eat the level stays elevated about 25 and men and men dont have that same response. We are driven to lose a lot of fat to get the back on us as well. You could argue this evolutionary reasons for that and women had to produce, nurse, all kinds of it. For every woman in the world who observes this and whats frustrating, i can say women are right as usual. We did get more fat and its keeping us little healthier and theres some good at something of the stat. Theres some good at having some of this fat. Host the leptin is making the more and women tend to be fatter than men because they partition the fat differently and its use differently and they get hungrier faster. A lot of unfairness going on. So then i have a couple other questions i wanted to ask you. Where are they . Oh yeah, this is a great one. Bacteria and viruses. Do they have anything to do with obesity . You kind it wouldnt expect it but your book makes you think maybe they do. Guest theres a lot of different components to how we get fat. Gender is one but also bacteria and virus have a role. This is pretty surprising to people. Its been known in animals for some time. K9 viruses have called fatness in mice. Associated virus has caused it in chickens. When people hear theres a virus that can cause it in humans i think it causes them a alarm. Host it sounds like you could catch it. Guest im not sure that is true. Host if youre around if that person, you could get fat . Guest when i talked about gender and genetics and will into fat, even aging hormones and bacteria and viruses will affect your fatness and how easy it is for you to get fat. All these things that mean you have to be obese. In the end you still can control but it will be harder for you. I will say that. I talk about a guy named randy who caught his vibes and detected it. He had to work pretty hard at it. What this virus is, to go into more detail, it was discovered more or less, a similar buyers in india when his treating obesity patients and talking to a veterinarian. There was a virus that was affecting the poultry industry, infecting chickens and hurting the poultry industry. An odd thing happened when i got this virus is they would gain fat. He thought this was unusual because usually when you get sick, things lose fat. He decide to study this as part of his thesis, this virus causing fat. He thought it was. He would infect other chickens and they would start gaining fat. He did a test would look for people who would ever have this virus and he noticed people who it ever had the virus had a much higher likelihood of being fat compared to people who didnt. He got so excited about this research that he thought he has come to america. Devote his life to studying viruses and obesity. He quits his thriving practice is to use, packs of his wife and kid and his biography is an interesting. That is a great story unto itself. Once he gets the us he cant get a job for couple years and just before he comes back to india he gets the job with Richard Atkinson, the university of wisconsin. Hes excited but then he cant get the virus, the u. S. Will not letting importance we have to pick a new virus, he picks one that is about the exact same qualities and that virus is 8036. Through studying at the way it works is what the determined, this team is it helps absorb glucose out of your blood. Suspect how does guest what happens is what you get this virus you have a little bit more absorption. It facilitates the absorption of glucose. You create more fatty molecules, more fatty acids. The fat cells you ever getting bigger. Also it produces stem cells. You are getting, fat cells you have host you are making more . Guest at the same time posting i thought people couldnt make new fat cells . Guest are stem cells can be compared either to bone or fat. They can turn into all kinds of things. When people go from a size six to a size 20, theyve had to have made fat cells. Host with this virus you make new fat cells and then what can you fill them up with fat . Guest its easy to do and somebody doesnt have the virus. Theres about, theres a lot of studies that have been done on it now and like overall its about double the risk of obesity. If you have this type, if youve ever had this virus. It doesnt mean you have to be. It means you are absorbing more glucose. Host thats kind of scary, theres a virus doing this. Where is this virus found . Do chicken farmers get this virus and then do they all get fat . Who was getting it . Guest great question. I dont know that that answer is completely known yet. I do tell a story of one patient who had it, and he was scratched by rooster on his farm as a child. In his mighty connexus together. It hasnt been studied, but knowing about it and chickens in india, knowing busy kind connected this together. He struggled with his weight for decades. He said around the time his appetite increased and then had a real tough time keeping his weight down and went back and forth. And finally he got to about 350 pounds in his 40s and one of the doctors referred them over to university of wisconsin. It just so happened this was the Richard Atkinson program, the people studying 8036. He was a carrier. Some point some point yet gotten this virus. There was make education program. They told him what this virus is, how it affects people. They told him about setpoints and about leptin, how leptin effects that. After reading all of this this patient named randy felt so empowered. He finally understood his pat buchanan as to why all this problem. Its a great case of knowledge of power knowing that. He does all bunch of things. He puts a lot of effort, this program wa is different in thatt wasnt he attributes part of that to success. I love vinny says agape to conflict look at what you did wrong. This one is like lets talk about whats going on and what you need to do. He felt very empowered about it so we felt more emboldened to cut his calories, more to exercise more. He also had gastric bypass surgery. He became very determined to undo everything that happened to them. Even that in itself wasnt something that fixes a problem. He still is very diligent now about count his calories and working out. The threat i guess 63, about 60, and great shape. Host does gastric bypass surgery get rid of the virus . Guest no. Host thats too bad. Poor guy. Scratched by rooster and your fat in the rest of your life. That would be tough. Guest can you get from people . Can you get this virus . They cant tell me know, these researchers. They are not sure how. Host thats scary because theyre so much prejudice now against fat people and people think that people can spread the obesity to them, whats that going to do with discrimination against fat people . Guest its not that prevalent. They think rent 10 of people are more might have it, its not tiny but its not like its everybody. Even if you have it it doesnt mean you have to be obese. It doesnt have to be fat. It means you might gain weight easier. Host thats not what anybody wants to be. Im concerned because people already shun people who are fat. You kind of dont want anybody to think well, if you get around that person you might get this virus and you will get fat. A lot of people, weve all worked with people, lived with people who have real weight problems and has always rubbed off on us. Guest i dont think its probably enough theres that. Im not sure how it is transmitted so im hoping this doesnt have aneffect. My point was illusion theres different ways of host i just get worried about discrimination thats out there anyway because like thats like the last acceptable thing to discriminate against, somebody who is fat. Just sort of openly discriminate so i just wanted to ask you about that because i was a little bit worried. Okay, what about, weve all known people who the older they get the fat of the get. So many people were thin when they were young and then by middle age theyve gained 20, 3. Whats going on . You told us theres a point, your brain sets what your weight is. Is it changing as you get older . Guest its almost a force of nature we seem to acume achad more fat, of these great many of us. As we age we lose hormones, we lose a lot of fat busting hormones. They decline with age. Things like growth hormones, that declines with age. Testosterone levels decline with age. We both have less of it as we age. You cant really eat what you did when youre 22, the big plate of food, it will make you fat as you get older. Its not just the love of fatness. Is the distribution that is affected as well. Women looking more fat in their hips and thighs. Men will get more belly fat. It affects both of those things at a talk at one study that was done about on male writers, studied 5000 male runners and he noticed no matter what mileage they were running every week, with age they gain weight. He ascertained that in order to keep weight low you have to increase your weekly running miles by about 1. 4 miles a week. Someone running ten miles a week when theyre 30, by the time therefore they should be running 24 miles if you want to fit into the same genes they did before. We have to accept that. Its hard. The reasons i want to get into and a cup, and hormones are one reason for that certainly. Theres a case for a possibly fat gets more protective as we age as well. Something called the obesity paradox with you find that people who are really have diseases like Heart Disease or diabetes, sometimes if youre slightly overweight they do better than people who are normal weight or underweight and is called the obesity paradox. It seems like when youre really at the deathbed or having a dramatic issue, fat, people have more, do better, have a lower mortality rate. We think where to get rid of it but more and more Research Shows thats not just fat, its doing things and a body that we are not really aware of. Thats another sign that theres more to fat than we think. It might be protective, might be doing other things as we age. As we go through menopause we have less estrogen coming from our ovaries. Fat produces estrogen. When we depend on the fat for estrogen as the agent might be a reason why its hard for women to lose after menopause. Host so its probably a good thing that they, people might not like the way you look, but for the help its probably good to be gaining weight as you get older. Guest even bone strength is linked to fat. People are overly thin. Ive had some relative who are pretty thin. They were called by the doctors to gain some weight. Host was able to do it . Guest well, by the time they are of the age, their habits are pretty well ingrained. Thats one reason. They did get a little bit of weight. They get that youre eating an awful lot to gain that weight. Host you had mentioned that people can be fat and fit. What many people assume is if your fat you cant possibly be fit. Can you tell us about people who are fat but it and what it takes . Guest it depends on what that is. Not all fat is equal. Their subcutaneous fat. Theres this role fat that his s underbelly and theres brown fat. Brown fat produces heat so it burns energy to produce heat, unlike white fat which will store all that energy. You have to be aware of all the fat you have, that different deposits and what its doing. Its really the visceral fat that is linked to more of these diseases like cardiac disease, diabetes. The sumo wrestlers whe we can bt but fit. Is because th they store that ft in their subcutaneous layer. People exercise will have more fat overall in the subcutaneous layer away from their visceral section. They can be fit but fat. They have these research mics with him higher levels as a talk about, that produces that and something that keeps our blood clean and it puts in the subcutaneous fat which is a safer deposit at that. These mice with higher levels are very fat because they been putting a lot of that way but they are healthy as well. They dont have these Metabolic Diseases. Exercise is something that produces it and we talked about sumo wrestlers who exercise for six to seven hours a day. Although they are obese its in the subcutaneous fat. They dont have all the metabolic disease that is associate with obesity. Host how much exercise do you need to be fit but that . Guest i looked for that answer. I found a couple of things. One study showed 20 hours of aerobic exercise, sorry, yes, 20 hours of aerobic exercise the week, or was it 20 miles . Host thats a lot of hours. Guest 20 miles, i got that wrong. 20 miles per minute the week was able to increase the levels and help reduce visceral fat. The other one was three bouts, highintensity integral training which is one part is about 20 seconds of intense exercise, ten seconds of exercise and do this for about eight cycles, four minutes or so. People who did that three times a week also were able to get that. Husband are there diminishing returns . Suppose you want to do more running are more highintensity exercise, with that make it any better or have you reached whatever youre going to get by just doing that much transit i dont know that theres a firm answer on that yet. Certainly we see sumo wrestlers exercise a lot and they stay very heavy bucket. Just innocent as seeing what they show what kind of exercise thats elevating, i dont know if theres a followup study. Because its also fairly new over opening our mind about fat, hopefully were in this time that we look at the size of fat and willing to say its not just slop and gluttony. The something more going on. I think the obesity epidemic, its the more Research Dollars into studying obesity. What is fat and how is it functioning . The more that we do this, its new now, got some great signals about how fat is really an organ, how its an endocrine organ but hopefully much more will come now to with start to look at, open up the box and look at that as an organ more than just a reserve of calories. Host people always always ask and have to ask although im not sure theres an answer, why is it that people have gotten fatter these days than it used to be . Guest theyre so in answer to question. Everybody has an answer to that question. One thought put forth his theres more hidden cards everywhere. When you have a lot of cards youre provoking insulin. Insulin helps clear blood of sugars and fats and makes people fatter. Host when i was a kid people ate junk all the time. My husband was going up in wisconsin, they called it bakery, like baked goods. In his stomach that bakery for breakfast lunch and dinner. The soy Something Like coffee to get breakfast. So i just wonder about this stuff that now were eating this, wait a minute, when i was a kid we ate a lot of cards and they didnt even have diet sodas. We only drink full sugar stuff so i dont know. Guest thats one. Another one is genetics are at play. Not everyone responds to put the same way. Theres Interesting Research out of israel where erin has taken people have been the different types of food any measures the blood glucose response. Some people he sees can eat ice cream or chocolate advent of the high blood sugar response. Other people cant. They can eat a very small amount of the same thing and that the big response. We are all program slightly different. Im sure genetics plays a role in that. There are certain populations that looking more fat on it wes and i compared to other populations. The one population of write about, the indians, they have this thrifty genotype where to their evolution they had famine. They were normally hunters, farmers but they did it famine and the people who survived had this that help them indoor towards times of no food, no water and adverse conditions. When those people get onto western diets they gained more weight than westerners would. They were measured up about three times the obesity rate of caucasians living in the same environment when it went on the same type of lifestyle. Its not just been. Theres an island where theyree finding the same thing, people gain more. I thought it was one of my issues i had, im eastern indin and yes, there was famine in eastern india and probably something i have, genetics working gets me. I could be another reason worker we have more people coming in, sharing gene pools. That could be one reason. Host because food is more about it, cheaper, would that a difference . You dont have to be hungry. Guest i dont know about that. Food always been accessible for a long time. It could be. Could be that it is convenient food. I think we are busier than we have been. Working households. Host i grew up when they invented tv dinners. We had some convenience. Every hypothesis you can say that, but, but. Its a difficult question. Guest its difficult. At the genetics has been brought into this, the way our genes, almost like what we do has been in pattern on her dna. For example, the one study what people exercise with one leg and they didnt access with other like it when you compare the patterns, the internet, its different where people come your genes are expressing differently depending on what you do. One thought, are people inheriting that . Are they inheriting these patterns . On the passing on the one generation to another . Its all a great area of one at a think the bill bunch of things that could work. It could be genetics. It could be theres more fast food and more hidden sugars. Could be at the genetics. What do you do now . I think are some interesting things on the horizon. Theres therapy. Host if you have this therapy you would trick your brain into thinking you are fat when youre not fat so therefore your brain wouldnt tell you to keep eating . Guest or you would lose fat tissues, were losing fat can help it comes to eating more mature checking things and say no, were all good. Host thats a good idea. Guest it is and is still inexperienced stages but in the horizon we dont have it yet. Other things like individualizing dies, another Research Going on trying to understand peoples genetics so youre not always going on a diet thats not good for you. Can one tell us about how you did this. Guest echoes of all these solutions are in the horizon, its your know. Medical invention you could take them you could do home arent hormone replacement therapy. Theres diet pills you could take the artist what is theirs died in excellent and thats one thing that no matter whats going on, genetics, viruses come in, that is a something we have to work with. I know thats monday and not an exciting after that people are hoping for but there are lots of diet books on the show saying they found this magic answer. If it works for you, by all means do it and stay on it. But for the rest of us which experiment. What i ended up doing was of course being scientific i started a spreadsheet of everything i did. I started writing down what it 818 and what time im kind of rough calorie count, how much taxes as they did and other things, how much coffee that i have. I started tracking everything. If i understood up the i would flag that. Just busy evolution, i start understanding when again and wanted to. I would weigh myself every day. Host so you had your weight in there, what you ate, how much you exercise, when exercise, how much sleep you got. Guest if i took medications, aspirin, what was driving everything. Host how long were you trying to keep distributed out treachery probably a couple of months to figure out what was working and what didnt. I finally found out i have incredible stubborn fat. It does not lead me. For all kind of reasons, being a female, middle age doesnt help, middle eastern, by genetics play. I have to work a lot harder than most people. I think its easy to sell a diet plan can look at this great plate of food you can have. You wont have to be hungry. You will lose. People buy. Theyre hopeful. And what that. I found the truth, for the lease, which is i cant beat that. My body is different. Different, i dont know what that means. I dont know normal is anymore but if normal is defined by the food guidelines, im not data. I learned i have to eat less, a lot less than host how much is a lot less . Guest i ate around 1000 cal a day or so, which is considered a lowcalorie diet. Very low compared to 800 or less. I eat a little more than that now that when i was really trying to reduce it, automatically i started heart and i rationed to back until i started seeing host were you hungry all the time . Guest for a while i was. But i also did intermittent fasting. If i ate at six or later and with losing weight but if i ate dinner early around 3 00, and skipped those hours going into nighttime, i could really bus stubborn fat. Host what about your family life lacks did you just sit there with a glass of water . Guest pretty much. I didnt really eat dinner at first i think it was, i guess concerning to them. It put a crimp in date night certainly. But it gets easier with time. At the beginning i was hungry. I talk about her own personal experience with what this felt like. I fantasize about food. I wanted food. It was a story of christina and layla. I was driven to eat. My body was working hard but understood my fat. What was different about this time is an every trick that was going. I knew what he was doing. It was withholding leptin and i was making me hungry. My metabolism was lower which is why it would plateau. I had it down. Now that i was educated and knowledgeable i could fight on the same terms as my fat was fighting and again a great deal of determination. Once i understood i felt like knowledge was power and knowing what to do. Im going to carry on. I enjoyed the hungry. It took about six weeks for it to subside. I still do intermittent fasting and it doesnt bother me much. I can cook dinner for my kids and watch the eat it. I might have a couple spoons of it but but i dont eat at nighn now. For anyone who that sounds shocking, it does get easier with time. Keep an open mind husband to suggest other people do the kind of spreadsheet that you did . Guest if youre trying one died after another, theres not one died that does it all. I test a consuming different levels. It has to work biologically. Your body has to respond. Keep it under genetics, bacteria, age, your hormone levels you might have to change that. You mightve to modify. It might not be for you. I think at all this knowledge helped me tailor my own type that works for me biologically. Im not as severe as i was one of kind of his but i still have an idea of what foods work and dont. The other thing i knows is i could eat some foods that are supposed to be no notes on a diet and it worked for me. I can have a vanilla latte. Theres this one on sugar now, but i notice something so make me gain weight but if i have a chocolate cookie, instead of chocolate i will gain about overnight. Host does that chocolate has fat in it. Isnt that weird . Guest it doesnt have a lot of flour. I find white flour, theres something in that for my but at least that will make me gain weight. I can appear sugar but i cant have, not big amounts of it but i cannot Something Like a brownie or a cookie. That also helped me figure out where i can cheat. Every once to come up once in a while. Its hardest to understood regiment and thats why diets fail. They are hard for people to stay on. When you come out you want to know what kinds of things you can do. That worked for me at least. I think the spreadsheet approach is good. It will help you tailor a diet that suit you or even create your own somewhat like i did. I diet also have to work socially and it has to work psychologically. Host thats what i asked what happens at dinner . Are you there with a glass of water . Guest so psychologically some food that sunk about that. For me to say theres no sugar allowed, ive tried and it works. I did lose weight. I came up twice because i really wanted Something Sweet and i found psychologically it wasnt something i could stay in for the long run. Other people might be fine. I have a supportive family and so i can do this. I dont have a job went to entertain clients will get a lot so i can do this. If you have a job like this what i do wont work for you. You have to pick something else. Theres a number of other diets out there, a number of the work pick one that works on all three dimensions, biologically, socially, psychologically because it wont just be for six months. Whatever you pick, you will be on this for years. Host what is that exercise . Guest i do exercise. I think thats important and exercise in the beginning of a diet, diet experts will tell people not to overdo it. People overcompensate and take some off the diet so you put it in slowly. You start adding some exercise to it. I have found its hard to get all the way there without exercise and i spoke to some obesity experts is that you can get about 80 of weight control with food only by the other 20 you do have to add some exercise. If we dont talk about weight of that, i am do some bone and muscle that will help with metabolism. Levels go up. Growth hormone go up after exercise so theres some antiaging benefit to pick your increasing your brown fat when you introduce exercise. For all kinds of Health Reasons i think exercise is important to add. I do probably around three minutes about four or five times a week. Host what do you do . Guest i do an elliptical. I always add those four minutes and of high intensity. It works wonders. My extreme stubborn fat will have to give in and i lose it. But i do aerobics, too. At least 40 minutes or so of a run or an elliptical machine but then strength on exercise is really important. And again i talk about some research where that is been seen to increase hormones for growth. Host i had to sort of weird questions. One of them is what about that kids . We put them on the spreadsheet and tell them that theyre not supposed to eat dinner or what do you do with kids with that . Guest of course that. It has to work at all kinds of ways and im a middle age women side to take extra stuff. That is a tough one and i think thats also where more of the puzzle is. Why are kids getting much better . And also bens a you go. When i take my kids to school there at a skinny school. All the obesity epidemic about for some reason is not at the school but it is in other schools. What is leading to that in kids . Theres a mix of genetics, and mix of the lifestyle factory. You have to look at this and a give a cat that you should consult a doctor first of what i did was my own kind of plan and had to kind of education to go out of. My doctor at a blessing audit. Certain types of foods you eat, be smart about what it is where eating. The more roughage, the more fibers greens that we have. We didnt touch on this but with different types of bacteria. Some extracts more calories out of it than other types. The more we get rid of some of the fat and carbohydrates, we have a different type of behavior. Host so with kids you just try to give them healthier diets and you cant possibly do the spreadsheet thing but try to do everything that people have suggested to make sure that they have a lot of roughage, that they have Healthy Foods and just hope for the best because it is not an answer for kids. Guest a parent can do the spreadsheet thing. Host but as a parent you can look at what is my kid gaining or not ginny. One other question, one last question. This is going to send crazy. Why didnt you say okay, so my body wants to be fatter. Why wouldnt you just be fatter person . Why do you care . Guest for me as a scientific question why and how. Why isnt a diet working . I got my brain, i have to know the answer. I had this burning question now, that theres something amiss. Why are some diets working for some and not others . So part of it was really wanting the answer and the other part is that being in my middle ages theres no going back. You either going to fix this but one never going to fit into just begin. I might as well throw it away. So that becomes it is a dumb one to go on like this are to want to try to get back to what it used to be . To our health issues. My blood sugar was getting high. I can have all of the effects of having extra weight but is going to start is that this place with this is good habit. For me it was a now or never moment. I got the tools to research a district i can get the answer. I can have a question before. I have it now and im going to solve this once and for all. I tell people, whatever in motion have, use it to your advantage. For me some of the emotion i was it was kind of anger to jump the truth. It was like what is this that . How dare a crawl on my body without my permission. Host you started the book, how come she can be so much and you cant and whats going on with you . Guest and i finally set in other think that im going to be in control come its me, im going to decide. Host you are a very stubborn person. Guest i have a will of steel. Once i decided to something im not going to lose. I gained weight from time to time. I kept my weight offer usenet. At christmas i gained a few pounds and this is another real key of dieting. I talk about the psychology of losing weight. Theres something called dichotomous thinking. People, but died and dont keep coming off, it becomes a slippery slope. One of the keys is to be healthy for the longterm, you will come off and we havent been much have to be him to get back on, psychological tricks we can make this easy. Its not a decision, a second every time. It just becomes habit. Host maybe if you accept the fact that maybe at christmas or something you might gained a few pounds. Some like the end of the world, its over now and your fat again. But so what . You already know from your spreadsheet exactly what to do to get it to come off again. For other people there might be other kinds of solutions that work for them, but at least, you dont have a magic solution but you are encouraging people to try to find something that works for them, which sounds to me like given the knowledge that people have now it makes a lot of sense i would think. Guest take control of it yourself. Dont be so gullible. Thats another piece of advice, theres a lot of people selling things to you. I read about the history of fat point where when people became fat conscious, i guess at the turn of the century there were all of these entrepreneurs and hucksters who came out with weird diets. It was a lot of gimmicks. Part of me i feel like we havent quite come out of that yet. Host still a lot of gimmicks and a lot of people do a lot of crazy things as we all know. At least you are the scientific voice of reason, and your book does go through what weve learned and how. I was interesting, how all these things are learned and who learned them and why are they accepted i that was interesting. Thats a lot about that and i would guess people just dont know. Guest understand your fat and once you do youll appreciate your fat, you understand theres a great role in your body. You will at least be empowered to pick a diet that works for you or change one, or live with your fat if you want to. Thats another choice here. Host theres a whole movement i think about your fat. And for some people, if you can do it, its hard because theres a lot of prejudice. On the other hand, its not the end of the world to be fat. A lot of people are. Guest hopefully this will change peoples thinking about that. The prejudice you talk about. That is important once people have it, theres a lot that goes into it. The successful dieting programs meet with the patient every week just like we dont tell diabetics to stop eating sugar is sitting back in a month. People who are successful in treating obesity meet with the patients weekly, they have the monitor the food log. Its an effort to do this. It will be one of the hardest things in the doctor, it takes a lot more support than people think. That his trip to come back to get to see people for years and prevention of it. Hopefully will be another thing. We wait for people to get happy before insurance will pay for any kind of interventional treatment. The weight that is designed to stay on you, through your blood supply to other things i write about. More preventative measures and making people educated. Host just the thought of i have to lose 100 pounds. Thats a daunting if you get to lose ten pounds. A whole different story. Well, its an interesting, its interesting to see the whole thing laid out with all these anecdotes to ge give people like christina, a lot of people, real human beings who struggle with these things and youre the scientists who discovered it, like the guy who found out about the viruses. At least it tells people that are individuals behind these things and you are individuals who suffer some of the consequences, too. So it was fascinating book. Guest thank you. I hope it really enlightens people