Transcripts For CSPAN2 After 20240706

Hello and welcome. My name is dr. Elizabeth rule. Im a citizen of the chickasaw nation and assistant professor at american university. And im so excited to sit down today to talk to Matika Wilbur about her new publication, project 562. Shes an acclaimed photographer, a fierce advocate for Indian Country, and also newly published author. So welcome, atika. Oh, thank you so much, elizabeth, its nice to be here. My name is Matika Wilbur. Im from the spin amish and tyler tribe. And i am the creator, the creator of project five, six, two, changing the way we see native america is as well as the cohost of the all my relations podcast. So thanks for having me. Absolute lutely absolutely. So lets just dive right into it. It was such a pleasure to your book and ive actually following your work several years now and so its, so exciting to have something out in the press that people get their hands on and have opportunity to look at your incredible as well as interviews that accompany each of the photographs. And so really at the heart of this project is an intervention into the representation of Indigenous Peoples in the United States. Can you tell us little bit about what inspired you to take on this particular topic and to use photography as a mechanism investigating this material . Yeah, so well im actually im trained as a photographer i studied photography in school, but after after college was working in los angeles and the elders in my community, they said to me, you, whitaker, wed really like you to come home and work with youth in our communities. So i raised in this venomous tribe in, washington state, and my dads tribe is, tulalip. And so some of the elders in my community said, can you come home . And teach photography, teach this, the young people, what youve learned . And so i came home, i started working with kids and i was, you know, i was like 25 at the time and i wasnt super enthusiastic about working with at the time and. And they asked me to put together a curriculum that represented our people, you know, because at the time and and still to this you know most textbooks represent native people represent its in our perspective it dont represent us in a post 1300 context. You which is to say that most people in this country have a very stereotypical understanding of what is contemporary indigenous identity and. You know, thats been designed, you know, systemically designed through policy and law for over many years. But also, you know, by hollywood and the war at degrading of native people over the last hundred and 50 years. And so, you know, when it came time me to put together that curriculum, i started looking for a photography books that were published by native people that i could show to my own young people and of course, what i found was an outdated narrative. What you find is photos of about leathered and feathered people, you know, images. And what has curtis coming to mind . And what we know is that those images deeply impact the psyche of native youth. You know, doctors, five Years Research has shown us that when native children exposed to the stereotypical image, their selfesteem. By like 60 . And whats shocking is when image is shown to the white counterpart, their selfesteem is raised. And, you know i certainly didnt escape or express irony in seeing the effects of, you know, while was teaching we buried so many students. Really just like we had so many funerals some unnatural death in my community with our young people and it was so heartbreaking and i remember i would like sit in lodges with the other teachers and wed be begging the creator to help, asking, you know, like, what can we do differently . What have we done wrong . And it was during that time that i realized that if i didnt participate in changing the narrative and in creating a book curriculum, i had cast, you know, like a full curriculum package that i could use to show to young people that really uplifted the complexity of indigenous intelligence that shined a light on some our powerful and, meaningful stories. You know resistance stories, abolitionists stories, but also just like stories from mothers and fathers and relatives and stories that our young people could read and relate to and not feel downtrodden by. You know, that was really the goal of my work was, you know, to create a body of work that i could share with my own people. And that really was the impetus of this project. So wow. That was yeah. Wow. Thats incredible. And again, you know, i just felt so fortunate have the opportunity to finally sit down with this piece. I would encourage all of our listeners today to absolutely check out this book it. In addition to having just these amazing photographs. Right. Also show you is doing that work right of advocating for native communities and really offering this intervention. How were seen right. Native peoples in the public. And yeah, so one of the things that i noticed that, you know, in the book is that theres, of course, tremendous diversity represented. And thats true because we are a diverse peoples, right . We are just inked in accordance with our tribal nations in the areas of cultural practices, language, age, spirituality, even our histories are distinct, of course, and our politics and governance. But in the midst of that diversity and all beauty thats within that, there also several themes that i saw emerging that connect tribal nations across the country and those were around things like food ways, Food Sovereignty the revitalization of cultural practices and language and even the idea of tribal sovereignty. Can you talk about some of those shared experiences that unite Indian Country . Well, as some of the elements where you saw the beauty of diversity across, our native communities. Yeah, well, youre right. Thats there was all people are not a monolith that we all are experience aunties our backgrounds our beliefs are as varied as you know like the forest desert. There. And, you know, i didnt realize how much i didnt know about country until he did this project right. Visiting communities would really opened my eyes. All sorts of incredible experience artists, you know. And in my travels i would get to go all kinds of different places, you know, i get to go. To ceremony. And i would to go to places and see like bear dances, which id never seen before or hoop dances or precious dances or crown dances or a landscape. You know, id meet birds, singers, id meet folks that participate in Native American Church or folks that, you know, our christians are baptists or you know, i my experiences were so varied and you know that what were talking about with my project 562 is a journey that i went for about a decade so back to, you know, the origin story in 2012 when i started this project, i everything i packed bags and i hit the road and since then i have lived in, you know, i lived in a two seater honda. I eventually into the big girl thats my wife pony. She got her name bause she likes to back it up. And th i moved into the boujee bay girl, which is a big and i traveled for until the pandemic until 2020. So for eight years. And i started in washington, oregon and california and moved my way till eventually i would go to every i went to alaska. You like a dozen times. I went like over 450 tribes in the United States. The project is called project tribe two, which stands for the number of federally recognized tribes. When i started the project, theres now hundred and 74 and you know. I would certainly there were many things that i learned along the way. There is incredible diversity in Indian Country and. You know, what connects us in. You know, thats a really an interesting question, elizabeth. What can access an indian . I think the reason that we started our podcast, all my relations, so that we could discuss indigenous relationality in my travels, i find that everywhere that i went people had a really and beautiful way of describing their indigenous identity. You know, when i started this project i was really interested in narrative work, but also uncovering what means to be an indian. You cant see me, but im holding up air quotes, you know. And i would ask people that question, what does it mean to be a native person in this century . And when i met john, he said to me, you know, i really like what youre dng here, but i wonder youre asking thwrong question. He said, you know, the only thing an indian has ever known is relocation term, nation and assimilation maybe. You should start asking people what it to become human in their own language. And then what i found is that when i switched to that question, people would start telling me about the deeper parts of their identity and oftentimes they would introduce themselves to me in their language and they would introduce themselves this their traditional understood of themselves, the traditional place based. And what i found everywhere that i went is people identified themselves, their relationship to their place and and that has a deep and knowing way of describing itself, you know as the people the blue green zone or the people of the tall pine or the people that live within the four sacred mountains and those those land based identities, i think would be the Common Thread i found is that, you know, are people are stewards of the land, are people are stewards of these places. And and oftentimes weve been relocated, right. As a as a as a result of like public policy. Weve been relocated and put on reservations. But that doesnt mean our relationship doesnt predate these these colonial understandings. And this colonial. And so i found when people started talking to me their land based identities, i started to put together this Common Thread, which was that, you know, relationality and kinship is integral to indigenous identity and there is no separation from that relationality, you know, and that the work of colonization is individualism and the antithesis. Individualism is relationality. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Wow. Thats thats really beautiful. And thank for sharing us. Sharing with a little bit of insight into how this project has even changed time and your own thinking has transformed, right . As youve gotten deeper and, deeper into it. Thats incredible. I want to build on one of the topics that you brought up, which is federal recognition and. I want to spend some time talking about for our viewers and listeners may be unfamiliar with this concept. So as you mentioned, the title of the book is project five six to with five, six to representing the number of federally recognized tribes that existed within the United States. The time of writing today, as you mentioned as well, that number has risen to 574. But federal recognition is a very nuanced and complicated. And of course, we also that there are Indigenous Peoples like kanaka maoli or native hawaiians who are represented in your but who do fall outside that federal recognition framework. So can you tell us just a little bit what federal recognition is for those who may be unfamiliar and how you have navigated that really important and, interesting topic . Yeah. Well, i want to you guys something i saw on the of my book, its project 562 and youll see in the center of my logo theres a theres a like a dot and then theres a crescent, and a dragon. And i put those there when i first designed the project, you know in coastal village art practice. Its, its all based of learning how to make art like water learning how to be water. And so youll see in the center theres always like a drop of water and then theres a crescent that goes out and a gone that moves from it and its like representative of like the fact that were interconnected but that things always keep moving, you know, like high water keeps going on this continuous cycle and journey. And so i added that to the project when i started because i knew that that this project would be Something Like that like it would just keep moving in and go for a long time. And then i, i knew that i would be at the title would change right there has been concerted efforts by the federal to eradicate tribal identity to eradicate tribes. You know certainly during the indian termination but certainly on contact and and you know this federal statute this federal statute of being a federally recognized tribe is its yeah, its sticky. Its certainly sticky. That would be a hes like a nice way of putting it you know there its like and im certainly not a person that speak to the complexity of what it means to fight for federal recognition when might want to talk to like a wampanoag. Im sure that my friend paula could tell you exactly whats required to become a federally recognized, but i do know that for when i started the project, i needed to have a place to go to. So, you know, i looked at the number of tribes, the United States and tribes with an address that could find. And thats how i named the project. And when i look back on it, i think it might be short sighted. It might have been a little short sighted. You know like i could have gone with any title. I could have just bought like indigenous or something or native or a title that would have been encompassing. But i also wanted to pick a title that would talk about the individual as a of each nation, right and that each nation is its own nation, with its own efforts for sovereignty and selfdetermination and and is working on own projects. You know, i certainly wouldnt want to create a project titled Something Like native america because because then we we kind of swam into the murky waters of. Describing our people in that monolithic way. And so, you know to become a federally recognized tribes means that you a land base, that means that you have a language. That means that you have you can trace your ancestry. And theres other you know, theres other ways that they qualify. And and that number is always changing based off of the primary power of congress. And know what i would find when i was traveling, is that i would also visit with a lot of people in urban indian centers. I would visit visit with folks, you know, in ke you said and kind of come the territory. I would also go to visit our toyota and even into like rico and mexico and canada you know the breadth of this work expands beyond whats recognition. I certainly met with plenty of folks who were from state recognized tribes. I pretty much met and photographed anybody that was willing to talk to me. You know, and, you know, in the archives theres about 1200 people that i photographed. And unfortunately, all of them are in the book. You know, im limited by the number of pages and really like the weight and like what is like the, you know, realistic for somebody to carry around in a book. But yeah i the journey certainly me to meet with more folks than just those that federally recognized but certainly a lot of places were right absolute absolutely and. You know, you mentioned that you went out and took photographs of many folks, many of ultimately dont even appear in this. And that was one of the things that i was struck as a reader, was the way that incorporated such a range of perspectives. Right. Talk to both child, women and youth as well as elders as you talk to people who are working in the space of culture. But also in this space of politics, you talk to folks who are very land based, living within their reservation, traditional, traditional territories. But you also, of course, bring in that indigenous component. And so can you tell us a little bit the process, how did you determine who you were going to speak to and who ultimately selected for inclusion in the book. Oh, you know, thats so buried. You know, i, i traveled for years and years and years i photographed people in so different types of settings, know sometimes i would meet folks a conference and photograph them afterwards. I would not know anybody. And i, you know, like i think of when i set off on this journey, i, i heading towards Northern California and. I was like, okay, where am i going to go, you know . And just i really, you know, a very organic approach to this, you know, like the project started in ceremony. The project was guided by relatives and my community ni, you know, oftentimes i put something up facebook and say, like, hey, im going here, does anybody know anything about it . And people would connect me. And then i would stay until id met enough people that i felt like id gotten, you know, like ive done good job oing a story or meeting with folks from their communities. You ow, i on like a straight a western production schedule and you know a lot of producers would of would really like brown at the way that i you know for a lot of reasons not just because i wasnt on a production schedule but because i believe in sharing with my subject. You know, i, i was trained in and western forms of journalism. I really actually feel like western forms of journalism are rooted in ways and, you know, we are taught that if we if we take the photo, if we click the shutter then according to copyright law, the image to me but if i actually believe in the teachings of my ancestors and i follow these traditional potlatch ways, you know, like just like we with our stories, i might have been given the right to sing the song, but doesnt mean it belongs to me and. I feel like the same is true with. The image and with the story of the person like people have been kind enough to let me their photograph but i dont feel like it belongs me. I believe that i share that photo with person and so, you know, in place that i went to each person the next i ask them where they want be photographed. I would ask them like what kind of questions do they want to talk in their interview . I would not presume to know that i that had the most interesting questions. You know like i really wanted people to contribute in a that felt meaningful for them. And so i would ask them like what are some of the issues happening in your community right now . Is there anything you want, me to be sure to cover and people had answers. You know, people have stories. They werent told. And i felt like those principles was super for the way this project unfolded. But know the way that i found folks was so buried. But like i was saying earlier, when i went to Northern California and i met for the first time, i went to the tableau wedding and nation and i them i walked into the Cultural Center and i said, hey, im here to take some photos. Im trying to make some friends. And they were like, wait, hold up, are you and what are you doing . And they said, well, why you coming with the Cultural Department . And explain what you want to do . And it was so nervous. You know, i had never really given a presentation about the i explained what i wanted to do. You know, i, i showed them photos of my portfolio and explained why i was doing it. I talked about you, my experience in education and why i believe that our children deserved better and and they agreed, you know, and they agreed this. So they said we will support you and they introduced me to, you know, like the their language keepers, their culture keepers, their elders, their youth. They fed me, they housed, you know, because this project was a kickstarter funded, the average donation was 20, you know, from like thousands of folks. And over the course of two kickstarters, i raised about 300,000 on kickstarter. And then, you know Foundation Money also supported the work but you the work actually lived because people like that like lara it was actually in the book and others like let me take their photograph and then introduce me to the next tribe that i was going to that was ten miles down the road. You know. And so then they took me down the way and introduced me to the next group of people and supported the work and it on it went around the country like that and as time grew so my social media grew and awareness about my project grew. Then it became a little bit easier. But i actually remember one time, you know, like when i didnt have what, didnt know anybody and i didnt have any. I called so i just like drove rv up and put a sign outside. I went to, you know, the i went to like the local rite aid or, whatever. And i thought, you know, like one of those things signs and i a marker and theyre like 85 and i put that on the outside of my rv and then and then, you know, people came and i met bugs in it, and then i got to photograph people there. You know, the methods varied. Yeah, thats thats so amazing. And again, thank you for giving us a little bit of insight what that has looked like for you. I mean, one of the things that you said that really resonated me is the fact that this evolved in a very natural way over time. Its not necessarily that you set to do one particular thing and then stayed within the confines of that, it sounds more like you were driven by a vision and a purpose. And then to let the people that you interact with guide how that took what that looked like and to the individual needs of the community. So you know i really appreciate your comments about Relationship Building and reciprocity there and i think that thats so inspirational especially to our next generation native researchers people want to work with native communities, people that want to embark artistic projects. So you thank you for sharing that knowledge with. Us today. Another question that i have, you motueka, is can you tell us about the process of transforming this, you know, decade long project where youre out you know, throughout the us in a van making these homemade signs to eventually publishing book. I understand that youve also done things like curating exhibit and held Artist Residency in the interim. So can you tell us little bit about the various iterations of this work over time. Yeah, well, you know, when i first started the project, i wrote a blog and i published weekly. So i published like weekly on the road stories. And every two weeks i would put out a film on youtube. And thats something dont youtube anymore. Now we make reels, which is a whole different thing. But, you know like i have a podcast, like i said, called my relations, which we started to about indigenous relationality a i yeah, ive done artist president s this, ive held exhibitions and i had exhibitions solo exhibitions all over the country. I have one right now in santa monica, it comes down in may. Working on three new exhibits that open up next fall ive developed curriculum to accompany the book which im really excited about. Written articles for an op eds for various syndication. So done a lot public speaking way more public than id like, but also i it it feels like an honor and a privilege to invited into communities. You know, i think, ive done about 500 keynotes in the last five or six years, certainly most of those happened during october and november right during native American Heritage month. Well, not anymore since i had a baby, but before a baby, i would probably do like 20 to 30 keynotes just in november. So yeah, you know, ive ive also films i just premiered my first short documentary. Three and yeah so ive got a of all different kinds of forms of storytelling wow, really incredible. So, you know, for all of our listeners there, make sure of course, you get this book but also check the other amazing work that Matika Wilbur is doing across so many different mediums. Thats thats really incredible hear. Now you brought up your your daughter right your child and i noticed the book you dedicate to her and you talk in that segment briefly about indigenous futurity and so can you tell us a little bit about what you mean when youre talking about futures and you think that is going to look like you know, just a small question. Well, shes talking about what is this this on the first part of the page, the thats my baby be. Im showing them the picture as much. And it says for only me or children hear and read the words of our indigenous ancestors, may we all be so lucky to know an indigenous future and you know, imagine that you picked up on that because of your studies and who you are and thats why i wrote it that way for those that would get it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um. You know, i often have this dream. I have this recurring dream where sitting on a train or a plane or a boat, im always traveling in my dreams. And i look over and i see these people and it, theyre not natives and theyre, theyre speaking english should see it just the healthy eye. And this child, this is what theyre saying to each other as theyre walking by each other getting on the train you know, that afternoon relative to see you so are you. Good day. You know and i realize im dreaming about a modern world, but then into a race thats, indigenous intelligence, but rather a modern world thats upheld the complex of our Belief Systems in a modern world that didnt believe that our languages and our cultures and our systems should be and violated and that we should be assimilate it into a dominant western culture, rather, in a modern world that believe that that our ways of knowing, worth valuing and and perpetuating in our daily lives and we often talk about on our podcast imagining an otherwise know so part of believing in liberation or believing in sovereignty and selfdetermination and indigenous nationhood is believing that its possible right . When our ancestors signed those treaties they they wanted the right to maintain access to their traditional places and the right to maintain their place, you know, and we often forget in this nation that treaties are the original law, the land they predate the constitution. Theyre meant to be upheld that way. And i believe that it was incredibly profound. You know, when i look back on my ancestors who signed the treaty that they knew that in order for us to be to continue being who we are, we would need access to these places. You know, as much as we talk about an indigenous future, we also have to talk about, you know, like the seven generation concept, concept of knowing where we come from in order to know where were, you know, that were always inextricably connected to. The generations that come before us, we situated ourselves in this lifetime, but we live for those that are coming next and i think that some of those profound moving value systems deserve to be a part of the collective consciousness in what is now known as the United States, because right now, this nation is struggling with its identity, this little baby thats only 250 years old, you know, its struggling and. It needs those deep teachings that come the people that know this place, you know that deeply i think shift the collective consciousness in a way that is better for all of us. So, you know, what do i imagine when i imagine an indigenous future . I imagine a our languages. I imagine my baby having the opportunity go to an Indigenous Education school that isnt rooted in white supremacy. I its a place where were not burning books because Critical Race Theory that well there are people that are like antitrans or anti native or anti black you know, a world where repatriation is no longer a term that we need to talk about because we already live in a matriarchal society, you know, like where the patriarchy isnt oppressing us on a daily where capitalism isnt you know, like part of what were fighting against every day for the time to be with our families. You know, i can imagine in otherwise and i can imagine otherwise because its very close were very close to otherwise. Right. Like my ancestors can tell me my relatives can tell me about a time when was another wise so i have to believe that its possible. Sure, sure, absolutely. Thank you again for your reflections on this subject. I mean, all of these themes really come through in the book and thats one of the things that makes it so amazing is to be able to look and see really a community that i think you establish right through . This project you know, that that considers these topics and thinks through them and learns from one another. So its really a pleasure to hear your reflections on these and one of the main organs using features of the book, of course, that it is organized profile, right . You go out to communities, meet with individuals and the book readers will see both the of those individuals as well as usually in or some type of written where those people and their voices are present. And so for readers or people who are considering getting the book which you absolutely should matejka could you please share with us a couple of really outstanding profile files that would give a larger sense of the text as a whole . Oh man, well, a question. In this book, its like almost four and 20 pages and. You know theres some theres some larger essays on some of the experiences that were more moving for me. One of them is an essay about my debut about protecting native, about its called protecting dangerous women and that piece was really important to me to keep in there during the during the first year of my project, it in actually it was the second year i guess in 2014 there was a major effort to reform the violence against women act and i was called upon take photos and testimony, native women who had been victimized raised by nonnative perpetrators on reservation lands and i. I must have interviewed and photographed around 150 women who had been impacted by and, you know, federal law and federal policy that made it impossible us to prosecute nonnatives on native and its part of the reason why you know one in three native women or expose clients rape in their lifetime know that three out of four native women experience sexual or Domestic Violence in their lifetime and and i certainly, you know, like i certainly didnt escape that reality. You know, i grew up on the rise. I have four sisters. I have a daughter, you know, often think about that and worry about that. You know, its a Public Health, like a Public Health emergency has gone unanswered for far too. And so, you know, writing about that in my book was critically important to me. And i think there isnt a more important call to action that we could have when discussing native america than a call to action to protect native women and and so thats a really important piece for me. Theres more i could go on and on, but i dont know how many of them how you want me to talk about. Sure, sure. Well, let me maybe ask you this. I think you are probably one of a very small of people whove had the opportunity to go out and visit all of the indigenous communities or most of the indigenous across the United States. Thats thats a rare right that youve had. And in addition to something, like the missing and murdered Indigenous Women and girls crisis that you raise, what are some of the other prime issues that you see affecting indigenous communities across the nation . Its oh my, you know, i think right now. We all of us should be talking about whats happening with the indian Child Welfare act. You know, let me say that again, with whats happening with the indian child act. And you all have to excuse me. Im just getting over laryngitis. Oh, i know. I sound, but this is just where at today. But the indian tribe of raptor, aqua. An effort to keep native children in native homes. Because for there was policy remove native children from native homes. My good friend brook swain, he made an incredible film about it called daughter a lost bird. If any of you are interested. But we also made an episode on the podcast about its called native children belong in native homes, but its being heard right now on the Supreme Court and converse is holland and depending on the courts decision it might be overturned and it was what protects native children and make sure that they stay in native homes and and actually like the legal ramifications and the repercussions could upend the legal basis for tribal sovereignty. So its an incorrect, important case that everybody should be following and sign the petitions and along and i also you know, i also wrote about in in the book wrote about the movement to protect oral care in hawaii. You know, theres an ongoing activism instance camp in hawaii and you know i had the i had the of visiting and photographing many of my family relatives and in the illegally occupied kingdom of hawaii and i got to meet with andy an engineering alien leonard chela and an Incredible Group of activists, scholars resisters including jamaicans is incredible. And you know, folks who are the work to protect their Sacred Places that theres an effort right now to build a 30 Meter Telescope on top of their moana you know which would go like miles deep into the and storeys high and we would be one of the largest telescopes on earth on top of what is one of the most sacred sites in all of oceana. And theres already 13 existing telescopes, several of which have already been been that theyve already been like. Theyre no longer used and theres this theres this movement crse and has been a resistance camp to stop the 30 meters telescope on top of our care. And i think, you know, it begs the question, you know why is why is this happening, you know, like why is hawaii an illegally annexed how has narrative practices painted and shaping our perception of hawaii this paradise Vacation Land for the taking you know why is electricity being rationed out to residents and people go there are using air conditioning at will you know like why do people even think that they should be going to hawaii the first place . You know, in a place that has limited resources and go there without investing into community you know is is some of the questions but certainly why do people feel like they need to summit the moana you know most native hawaiians believe that the moana is a place reserved for the high gods, but tourists go there every day, you know, in blatant of kind of commonly beliefs. And so i think theres this reckoning that has to happen, you know, and that also exists in most public lands. You know, i really proud of the work that dad holland has been doing, you know, both with the movement to change some of the the you know, these very racist language thats used in National Parks. You know, like theres made an initiative to remove the name squaw which is a racial slur from 200 National Parks in the united in a few weeks actually, deb haaland is coming to tulalip to my tribe where shell be secretary haaland will be visiting to present work and to do interviews on the to healing for truth and reconciliation for boarding schools in the United States. You know, it was actually in 2021 that secretary haaland announced the federal Indian School initiative, which directed the department of the interior by secretary memorandum to, undertake an investigation of the loss of human life and the lasting consequences of that federal Indian Boarding School system and truth about the u. S. Indian boarding school has been largely written out of the history books. You know, there are more than 300 or 50 government funded and, often church run Indian Boarding Schools across the us and you know, our native children, were forcibly abducted by the government. They were sent to schools hundreds of miles away. And they were they experienced extreme trauma in those places. And in fact, on the cover of my book, Henry Adamson talks about the experience of going to indi boarding school and not ever hearing somebody tell her that she loves that they love her, you know how that had Lasting Impact on her and how she was able to overcome that. And, you know, thats rt of the reason why i chose dr. Anthony henry is because i think its an incrediblfeat, you know, to up in a loveless in a loveless way. And to overcome that and be become loving person and open for native people. I mean, i just, i think its profound and theres so many stories like that in the book, people talking about their exposure orients is in boarding and, and, you know, theyre that right there has never been a reckoning in this nation. Right. Like there has not been a mass effort for truth and reconciliation. Places have done it right. Canada has been working on it. Its certainly happened in south africa. But the United States yet to look into the effects of genocide, assimilate termination on some of the policy that were enacted upon Indigenous People in country and apologize and start taking actual action or restitution and to me is just crazy that, you know, like in the wake of george floyd and in this culture of wokeness that we live in, that there has not yet to be a reconciliation with our past. And so ill just say not. I said in and you know, i just want to really underscore the things that you said right . Gender based violence, conservation, environmental ism and sacred sites and also connecting the indian Child Welfare act that you mentioned, which is in the Supreme Court now with boarding school history. Right. Many people dont realize that equal was inspired by history of boarding schools in systematic separation of young native people and children from their families, communities, cultures and nations. And so i just want to really underscore and highlight again all of those issues that are shared issues and between our very diverse tribal nations, mitiga to bring it full circle. If we are to go back, the very first question and the very origins, this book, which was to make an intervener john into the representation of native peoples and showcase what native peoples look like, the struggles that have the histories that we have survived through, and all of the beauty and diversity and brilliance that exist within our tribal nations today. What is one major takeaway that you hope that readers gain from new text. I my hope with this book was in way that i chose to write it was letting try. I really hard not to over editorial allies peoples work. You know i left in you know like the syntax of the way that individuals i, i tried not to insert myself where i wasnt needed. I tried to let people speak for themselves because because people deserve that. Right . And. You know, native america is fast and sprawling and beautiful and there isnt anywhere that you can go and is now known as the United States that isnt native land. Right. Like everything, every culture, every river, every estuary every, every city, every suburb, you know, has an indigenous history in. Those indigenous histories and those indigenous are worth knowing. And so i hope that and in reading this book, you get to know people a little more intimately and personally you know that it can humanize native america far away in a way that hasnt been done for you in the past. And, and that by reading this, you can overcome, you know, some of the statistics that we know to be true, which is that 72 of americans say that theyve never encountered a native person. We can overcome some of you know certainly with this book we can over come that thats truth that we talked about in the beginning is that 82 of textbooks in the states do not Cover American history. And and opposed 1900 contexts which lends itself to this idea of extinction that native are extinct and nothing could be further from the truth. And so what i hope that when you read this book is you get to know that native america is alive and and vibrant and there are very real that are still being shaped by public policy, Public Opinion and Supreme Court, like the indian Child Welfare act, then need public support. And so i hope that by to read this book you get to know us a little better and thereby can become a relative of and can to the native people land you live upon Matika Wilbur. I want to say thank you so. Maskey thank you. In the chickasaw language for your time today, for your work on project spanning over a decade and of course congratulate on the publication of project six to to all of our i encourage you to go check this book its available now and of course to keep up with Matika Wilbur and all of her including her podcast all my relations. Thank you, matejka. Its been a real pleasure. Thank you. I appreciate it