Article about midwest cities trying to adjust to a more hightech future as part of our spotlight on magazine series. Thank you for joining us today. Good morning. Host we have heard the phrase rustbelt to represent these industrial towns across the midwest. Why are they now being called the brain belt . Guest the rust belt dates back to around the early 1980s. The rust belt has been hanging over some of these towns or cities for a while now. The idea of having to reinvent themselves is a long time coming. I think what we are hearing now is if you things. Sense that the United States is still a major manufacturer, but it will not be making the same things going forward. So the loss of certain types of manufactured goods to china or asia or anywhere else is being replaced by other goods, which tend to be higher tech, more advanced techniques, and require different skill sets to produce. So we see a shift across the country. In terms of the rust belt itself, you do still have a core of manufacturing expertise. You have industrial facilities. You have a workforce. These are better places to experiment with these new materials and techniques and products. It is easier to set up there. You have space. So you are seeing more advanced manufacturing emerge in certain cities, particularly where they have the expertise, which hasnt gone away. So i went to akron, ohio, which is the rubber capital of the world. It was at one time. If you go back 50 years, the tires on your car were all coming from the city. But that industry went away in the 1970s and the 1980s. They had to reinvent themselves. It is the example of a place that is kind to do that. There are many others and they are in different stages. But the central idea is that it the rusto write off belt as part of the old model of manufacturing. But what made it the old model of manufacturing may be what makes it the power the future. The idea that we could be producing everything overseas and importing it and that america makes nothing anymore, thats not really true. Host you point out that you focus on akron, ohio. In your story a century ago this was the rubber city. In thenufacturers left 1970s and 1980s, depleting the population of the expertise. Akron sits in a region that is a industry. Tics but like many other rust belt cities, akron has a workforce that is increasingly involved in services. Manufacturing continues to decline with thousands of jobs shed since the great recession. Is this idea of a brain belt, is it taking hold . If so, is it fast enough . Guest the answer is that it is taking hold. Cities like akron, where you have strong andersities and companies elected officials working that. Er, they are doing you have to remember there is far greater employment in services than manufacturing everywhere in the country. The idea that you will create this manufacturing job that we saw 50 years ago is not liable. The image of is not viable. 24 hours, three shifts, thousands of people clocking in and clocking up, that is not what manufacturing will look like. Jobsill not create enough where everyone is in the factories as in 50 years ago. They become a part of Economic Development and goes with the services. It is worth mentioning the tieups in the plastics industry. A professor works in by a great biodegradable materials. It will be wrapped around your bones during an operation. They could potentially biodegrade and dissolve so you no longer need to open up again and take out that binding material. That is an exciting new product. That combines advanced manufacturing with medical services, which is emblematic of where these cities are looking today. Host we are looking we are talking to science to simon turning the rust belt into the brain belt. You can join this discussion. We certainly want to hear from you if you are in one of the rust belts. Much. thank you very thank you for having me here on this show. My comment is that this gentleman doesnt know what he is talking about. The manufacturing is the core of the country. It should be the core of the country. Americahe jobs today in and in many other countries, japan or maybe germany, is on service. Isple are disqualified he using the term rust belt. Doesnt know what he is talking about. How many factories have been decimated by taking jobs outside the country . And he is talking about brain belt . What is a brain belt . A guy making a forklift in a warehouse . He doesnt know what he is talking about. This is propaganda done by deep state. Host lets let simon respond. Well, services do make up the majority of implement today in the United States, as they do in most advanced economies. I am not saying manufacturing should go away, although it is going away. I am also not describing jobs involving forklifts in warehouses. When we talk about producing hightech goods, these are decent, wellpaying jobs. Say,nk what i am try to what it found is that there is going to be more employment in these areas, but that it is not going to be the same jobs and the same employment as before. The key question here is not will we no longer import from china and will everything be made in the United States . The kinds of goods that can be made here and how do you make sure that you are at the higher end of the chain, that you are make things more valuable goods with intellectual property, greater potential to produce new products . And the idea that we should go knocking together plastic boxes, i dont think that is viable. I understand the frustration with the decimation of jobs in the midwest and other towns, manufacturing. But i dont think anyone i spoke to thinks we are going to go back to those days of producing everything here in the same way we did before. Host simon, you are saying that the old Manufacturing Industry cannot be replicated today. But at the same time, is there an ability on the campaign trail, we heard about retraining and things like that. Takeere an ability to people, particularly Older Workers who are losing their jobs in the traditional manufacturing field, and be able to install them in these new brain belt positions . Guest that is a very good question and it is a real challenge. The honest answer is it rarely works. If you look at the jobs being recreated being created, require computer skills and an Associates Degree or higher. That includes the managers, the marketing people, everyone. There is less demand for the braun, as it were, the muscle in the braun that made things before. Retraining those workers is a challenge. There is evidence that it has worked in some places. Get anyany, they can i decent jobs and they dont see that walking that working at walmart for minimum wages what they want to do. Retraining the old workforce is a far greater challenge than trying to build new industries which may not employ the same people. Host bob is calling from the rust belt state of michigan. Caller im not sure what your point is. These cities have not recovered. On amay have recovered massmarketing program on television, but the reality of most of these cities today is that the Unemployment Rate is just outrageously high. The poverty levels are unbelievably high in most of these same cities. You are talking about recreating into a brain belt. I dont know what your point is. Unless we have the political will to bring back manufacturing into this region, other than some places like grand rapids, michigan, as one example that i can point to, were some of these kinds of things were, but your case study of akron akron is a disaster, sir. It is a disaster. It is the heroine addiction capital of the universe, for crying out loud. I dont know what your point is, sir. Host go ahead, simon. Guest in the article, i point out that akron, the medium wages 35,000 a year. It does have heroin addiction. The population is down a third peak. Ts the point is not that akron is back to the glory days and it may never get back there. The point is it is trying to find a part out of it. When i talk about brain belt, it is not my term. T comes from an academic there are many places that are not winners, where the jobs are not coming back. And as you say, that leaves a heavy toll in terms of unemployment and poverty. You have to look at what akron has, which others dont have. They have a Strong Research university, which works in polymer science, and that supports an ecosystem of plastics and other companies and tires. They still make the nascar tires and you still have the Research Facilities for tire makers there. So they still have some qualities that allow them. To go forward but i agree. There are many allow them to go forward. But i agree. There are many studies cities that have a challenge of turnaround. But places like akron, which have been through hard times, are trying. Host to do this when it was looking to build a new factory, it looked at akron and South Carolina and ultimately chose to build in mexico. Added a new plant in the u. S. , it would have been an outlier. Factories of such size are no longer the norm. Only 50 of many factory workers or just over 1 of the u. S. Labor force punch clocks in factories with 1000 or more employees. Will a little board you talk a little more about that . Of thegoodyear is one four big Tire Companies that retained their whitecollar workers, their technicians and research people. Saye is a certain logic to why dont they set up their factory there and employee logs numbers of people again and producing the tires that go on our cars and trucks there . They look at akron. They looked at South Carolina. They ended up going to mexico. They do also have planted other parts of the United States. It is a mixed strategy. For the city, it was a disappointment. They were hoping to attract that industry there. It is emblematic of the idea retainingnt rely on or attracting those sorts of factories. A lot manufacturing will be done in smaller places. In fact, those smaller places can find a home in these midwest cities. A setback for akron when they did not get the goodyear plan and it went to mexico. There is a Strong Political debate to be had over whether to have stronger incentives. But that is beyond the scope of this story. This is not a story about trade policy or tout shoring or off shoring or about import substitution. It is what you do in the current circumstances if you are a city in the rust belt like akron. Host we are talking with simon montlake. Susan is calling from earlier, massachusetts. Caller great job as usual. I love stories like this. I come from many generations of its berger of pittsburgh ers. Grandfather worked closely caring for a mill workers and built a great life for himself and his family. And i remember being in high school in pittsburgh in the late 1970s when the death knell of and manufacturing was becoming readily apparent. But anyway, i wanted you to tell us about the progress and you can use mathematicians as an example of industry collaborating with colleges to taylor and to really create a pipeline of workers that can benefit from all of these wonderful hightech jobs. And number two, living in boston, it is very difficult. The cost of living is prohibitive. Due to foreign buyers of real estate and a host of other factors. What will it take to encourage east coast educated kids to consider life in some of these former rust belt towns . Life isity of incredible. The residual infrastructure left over from the glory days of manufacturing, culture, great they ares, just just great places to build a life and raise a family. My siblings and i come a even though we are always promoting cleveland, pittsburgh, columbus, ohio, buffalo. If i were young, that is where i would go. Host lets give simon a chance to address that. Guest i will take the second point first. It is very interesting they talk about the boomerang effect if you go to wisconsin and michigan. They say young people go to college am a graduate and move away. When they get into their 30s and started family, we see them coming back your looking for a place to raise their families. Somewhere like spur, what they have done is remarkable. It is a much more livable city. It has a great mix of arts and culture come as you say. A lot of that is the legacy of the foundations created by the fortunes of the past. Pittsburgh has done very well. But if you look at the population, it is far below what it was in the 1980s. There was a massive outflow of people. If some like you were a part of that. As two of how to as to how to attract those people back am i think its berg is still joined to make the downtown livable, converting old brick factories into warehouses or loft spaces for rent. They have access to the river and the fact that you can friendly drive from downtown anywhere in about 10 to 15 minutes. They do have a stopping point. I dont know how helpful that will be for millennials p but if there are jobs there, you can do some of that. On the question of Community Colleges, there are strong linkages in certain cities i have been to. Grand rapids, michigan is a great example of this. They have a shortage of people coming into manufacturing. People dont want to do those jobs and they think they can be dirty, dangerous, and perhaps they saw their parents lose their jobs in the past. There is a need to get Community Colleges to train these people in these new skills. That is where you see creative collaboration in cities. Therefore, those are the cities that will do the best going forward. Jude drawheir efforts people from Silicon Valley to some of these rest is there people fromraw some Silicon Valley to some of these rust belt cities . Guest yes. They have business acceleration, software companies, and they do promote and sells of both u. S. Tech companies and to overseas Tech Companies that want to get a foothold in the u. S. Market and probably find moving to boston or San Francisco very expensive and perhaps too much of a jump. We can set we can get you cheap office space and all the support services you need in akron or youngstown. So they are making a pitch to those companies. Its a bit of a chicken and eggs. You do need the workforce to produce those startups and those jobs. There is still a brain drain from these areas. Young people are still looking to get ahead and to move out. That is an old story, when they are still facing. Host lynn is calling from pennsylvania. I agree with you and disagree with you at the same time. We have a steel mill that i worked for 42 years in. Bankruptit went because we got no health from the government and the environmentalist rules and regulations were killing us. And all the machinery, they sold the mill for 5 million and they took all the machinery to south korea. Now the mill is running in south korea, but not here. Your statement about tony about a hundred jobs, you are forgetting all the service jobs. We had 160 Truck Drivers a day that went in and out of there. The Railroad Service workers, oil, everything, it kept the valley alive. That is all i have to say. Host go ahead, simon. Guest it is a valid point. Once one of these mills shut down, the Multiplier Effect is huge. So many jobs depend on it. I have seen this in other industries in small towns. I recognize your point. If you went to akron in the 1970s and the 1980s, that was the situation. The place was derelict. People were moving out, abandoning their homes, and the closures were very hardhit. By going to akron today, i am seeing it in the upswing. 25 years ago, i think the devastation would have overwhelmed everything. The downtown buildings were half abandoned. There were squatters living there. As i say in the story, one of the people i spoke to said, look, if it was a snowy night, you could drive your car downtown and park. On the way back, you could follow your tire tracks because there is nobody else there. Calling fromis florida. Caller good morning. I read your article. I am a mathematician, so i teach young people, phd students, in the opportunity of enriching innovation and creativity, in terms of the intellectual capacity in business. As the article relates to innovation and public creation that has to come to create america as a new emerging market , you were one of the one that coined i think that term emerging markets so i see that you are naming the towns of akron and albany, new york, minneapolis as examples of the brave about cities on the rise. When i think about what the woman said from massachusetts and i am in tallahassee and urban city, in terms of less than 500 metro population, highly Skilled University town with almost 100,000 young people here that makes of 250 so when they leave in the summer, the local restaurants and the local community loses even that income. What i see is a cemetery. We have a population what i see is a similarity. We have a population of adults. I want you to explain when you say rust belt as opposed to cities. When i hear some callers, when we talk about the desolation of the disposition of workforce, that we are talking about somehow the urban cities. But indeed, we are talking about the exurban, the less than half a million for metro area, places like high point, north carolina, where you have now raleigh and durham in a triangle with the Research Advanced technology of medicine. Education. T have we are putting out millions of young people and we do have an opportunity to create america as a new Imaging Market host i want to give simon a chance to response and we have other colors. Guest just to go ahead, simon. Guest to clarify that is not my term at all. Host which you point out in the article. Guest yes. He worked for world science and a consultant and writer and studied western europe and compared it to your albany and erie and akron. The idea is not mine but his. But the rust belt applies to the upper midwest manufacturing area including the small towns, one factory which was very important in that community as well as your big cities, milwaukee and detroit. Its a large area. As i say, the term goes back to 1982. I think a politician first used it. The rust belt stretches in many different directions. Communities where you have strong universities and lots of young people are the kind of places where frankly companies wanted to be so it is a very key thing. The problem in some of the midwest small towns is an aging population so that dissuades companies from perhaps expanding there and it means young people tend to leave and not come back. Host we have one of those rust belt places, oil city, pennsylvania where jeff is calling. Hi, jeff. Caller yeah, hi. I just over hearing this i dont think there is much hope for the rust belt in general t would be great to see it come back. I know the people that have worked here for years in the past and in the 1940s and through the 1970s, very hard working people. But you look at the generation here, the entitled generation, and you look at the brain trust leaving the area, they leave in a multitude. I just cannot see how anybody would want to come and invest in these areas when, you know, with the oil field crisis and so on, it seems like it is too overwhelming and thank you for having me. Host go ahead, simon. Guest you make a very good point. Im not pretending this is a solution everywhere. I just found interesting that one place in particular had been through very hard times, seemed to be building their way out of it, and its not a done deal. I think there will be many places that try and fail. Its hard to see what else you can do. Waiting around for the federal government to rescue you doesnt seem like a very viable option at this point. Host our last call comes from troy, michigan, just outside detroit, more rust belt area. Hi, rene. Caller good morning. Im sorry, i did not listen to the entirety of your discussion. However, in troy, which is a suburb of detroit, there is quite a revitalization in detroit. We were fortunate because there re a lot of very, very wealthy families among them who contributed a lot to our museums and Different Things that they have left behind. I see resurgence, a lot of young people wanting to move downtown and things of that nature. Everyone cannot be an engineer and i suggest that the company that sends their businesses to the philippines in india where they have people that answer telephones, which people in the United States are very capable of doing, that would be a resurrection of some jobs. Host ok. I want to give simon a chance to respond. Places like detroit, which is drawing a lot of starbucks and things like that, how do other people follow that model . Guest i think detroit is a Great American city and its revival is a remarkable story. As you say, civic leaders, philanthropic money, private capital has kept it going. I was there a few months ago. The downtown is buzzing. New street car. I dont think many places can compete with detroit. It has a certain appeal to a lot of young people as being the quintessential industrial American City with great music and culture and all that history. You can do it but even detroit once you get from the midtown, downtown area, it is still pretty rough and a lot of poverty. Detroit is an interesting place to look for revival but the ink blot hasnt spread much further than the downtown core. The fact that its happening there is very encouraging i think. Host ok. Reporter for the Christian Science monitor find his piece at cs monitor. Com and find him on twitter. Thank you so much for joining us today. Guest thank you. Xxx announcer cspans washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up sunday morning, a report on the security of the u. S. Energy grid and recent tax to systems. Then the Campaign Legal center discusss how u. S. Laws apply to foreign nationals or governments. And former u. S. Ambassador to iraq James Jeffrey will talk about the significance of iraqi forces retaking the previously isisheld city of mosul. Be sure to watch washington journal live at 7 00 eastern sunday morning and join the discussion. Next a look at what states are doing to combat opioid addiction. It was a topic of discussion this week among governors at their annual summer meeting in providence,