host: thanks for giving is your time. guest: thanks for having me. host: a recent decision by the fda concerning e-cigarettes manufacturer, can you set up with the fda decided on this and why they did it? guest: the fda last week ordered juul labs to take its e-cigarette products off the market. it's one of the biggest e-cigarette brands in the u.s. and the action by the fda as part of a broader view its conducting of the industry. all e-cigarette manufacturers had to submit their product or fda review. it was to see if they were appropriate in the fda has been issuing decisions on these products and whether they can stay on the market or not. host: so they turned their attention to the juul cigarettes, why specifically so? guest: they said that juul provided insufficient or conflicting data -- as part of its application. they say the evidence is hazardous but juul did not provide that information step juul has gone to court and gotten the temporary stay and they are pursuing an appeal. host: when the fda looks for information, what specific information are they looking for from the manufacturer about its product? guest: juul and other manufacturers submitted scientific studies and evidence showing their products were less hazardous than cigarettes which is an important factor they had to present to the fda but also information on whether or not it would present some kind of hazard to the user specifically the fda was questioning juul's submission on the question of toxicity and whether there were michael's that might lead from the refill pods and whether or not those chemicals might get transferred. broadly, the fda has been waiting the potential benefit of these products for adult cigarette smokers against any potential risk for unintended consequences such as appeal to underage kids or other hazards proposed to users. guest: host: here are the specifics about the decision. after reviewing the companies's applications, the fda determined that they lacked sufficient evidence to demonstrate the marketing of the product and the protections of public health and some of the company's findings raise concerns due to insufficient convicting data including toxicity and potential harmful chemicals leaking from their proprietary liquids. what was juul's response when they got this response from the fda? guest: they said they submit an application and said their products were appropriate for public health, in other words that there is a net benefit to public health and the benefits to adult electronic cigarettes outweigh potential risks. they have also said the fda overlooked 6000 pages of data in the application. in a court filing yesterday, they said the fda claims that juul had cemented no information on its aerosol and juul said we submitted 6000 pages. there has been some question about what the application did and did not cover. host: our guest is with us until 9:30 a.m. and if you want to weigh in, you can call us. also text us your thoughts. if i understand correctly, what did the lower court do? guest: it granted juul a temporary stay and juul has asked the court for a longer stay that would cover the entire appeals process and that proceeding still under right in fda has to respond to the motion step host: for the ability of someone who uses these products, does that mean they cannot get them or for a limited time? guest: in the immediate aftermath of the fda's announcement last thursday, products came off the shelf. the fda's order was that retailers had to stop sales immediately. however, juul got an emergency stay. the sales can continue for now and will wait to see whether the court will grant a longer stay that will cover a prolonged appeals process. the emergency stay was enough time to let the court measure the argument for a longer stay. it's also notable that juul and its court filings, the fda in denial acknowledged the fact that juul's products were less harmful than cigarettes so juul 's hinges on the totality of the evidence they submitted. juul says they demonstrated their products are less harmful than cigarettes and that's with the fda should be focusing on step host: you said it's part of a larger review of these type of products. if i were a company that manufactured this that was not juul, i what i look at the decision from the fda? guest: it depends on whether you have an authorization for your product by the fda. some of juul's competitors already have authorization for some of their products and they can remain on the market. other e-cigarette manufacturers are waiting for a decision. this could raise concerns about whether or not there applications might be contingent on data. the fda didn't say they determined that juul was not the standard for public health. they said they didn't have enough information to make that determination. i imagine other e-cigarette companies are hoping there applications check all the boxes the fda is looking for. host: this is jennifer maloney from the wall street journal joining us so let's hear from stephanie in indiana, you're on with our guest, go ahead with your russian or comment. caller: i am concerned about the regulation of these e-cigarette products and these they think products that they are promoting to our children. it's a big problem and they are spending a lot of their money and every kid affects the next kid and sometimes they find one kid can smoke it while the other is passing out or having side effects. guest: that is stephanie from indiana, go ahead step is an important point and one that the fda is considering as it reviews these applications. when it -- one of its primary tasks is to weigh the potential for for adult cigarette smokers. it's against the appeal some of these products have to young people. we have seen a steep rise in under age e-cigarette used followed by a decline. e-cigarettes took the u.s. by storm in 2018 and then they became 18 status symbol overnight. juulit also had a proprietary re let's call it that gave cigarette federal policies implemented that have helped cut the decline in the numbers. the minimum tobacco purchase age increased to 21 years old. in the fda also put in flavor restrictions on cartridges so they could not be fruity and sweet and other flavors they deemed appealing to young people. we have seen a decline in the vaping numbers but there is a big concern for many lawmakers and regulators. the fda has ordered off the market, more than a million vaping products and many of them are liquids that come in all sorts of candy and fruit, flavors that might be appealing to young kids. it's definitely something the fda is weighing. host: the ftc did report on these things and they found that sales of these type of products was 304 million which grew and the fruit flavored carter sales jumped 1600% from that time as well and it says when it comes to nicotine coming 2015, 25 milligrams of nicotine were found in that concentration they grew to 60% so clearly this is a sector that has grown over the years. it has grown in appeal? guest: right and they are marketing these two adults as well. they became popular around 2018 in part because of jewel which presented a product on the market which has an appealing design and it was shaped like a usb drive and the engineering was unique. it also had a proprietary recipe let's call it that gave cigarette smokers enough nicotine in a way that satisfied the nicotine craving so they can actively switch from cigarettes to e-cigarettes and it was different for products that had been on the market before. many cigarette smokers had tried earlier versions of e-cigarettes in the couldn't get the nicotine they needed for their dependence. they tried them and they went back to cigarettes and juul was different because it ushered in a new generation of vaping that was more satisfying for people who needed that nicotine stuff the products were really appealing to young people. regulators now are trying to weigh the risk of gens the potential benefits and they are reshaping the vaping market. it had been unregulated until recently. the fda is trying to rein in this wild west of they can products. host: is the regulation just in the biden administration where did this start in previous administrations? guest: it started in previous administrations. the obama administration asserted regulatory authority on e-cigarettes for the first time in 2016. these had not been regulated by the fda previously. that was a priority of the obama administration to say we will regulate this. there were several years that they got companies to submit applications. there wasn't action for several years. the process moved forward and there was a lot of discussion under one fda commissioner in particular who talked about trying to encourage cigarette smokers to stick to less harmful options. also during that time, vaping became a significant problem. the fda took several actions to try to rein in the underage vaping than the oh biden administration came in and they have several policies looking at the industry from the cigarette side and the e-cigarette site. host: jennifer malone is joining us from the wall street journal. this is from aaron in michigan. caller: i'm wondering why the fda is such a vendettas against juul but they don't go after flavored disposables which are taken over the market. and why are disposables allowed? guest: that's a good question. this goes back to 2020 when under the trump administration, the fda grappled with vaping. they looked at these fruity flavors that were dealing kids. they were working on crafting a policy that would take the most appealing products for kids off the market temporarily until the fda completed its review of every product. there was some back-and-forth with the trump administration about how to pass this policy initially they thought they would take all the flavors off the market and all device types but there was concern about how this would affect small businesses and fake shops and it was an argument that the vapes shop catered more to adults. it was about to e-cigarettes that had cartridges you could attach and at the time they were popular. the fda made a targeted policy that would have only put the flavor restriction on products like juul that had refill cartridges and it did not apply to the vapes shop diy and didn't apply to disposables and there was a concern after the policy was rolled out the disposables would be a loophole and then people could switch from devices like juul to a disposable. with most e-cigarettes, you just are the amount. disposables were available in 30 flavors in the fda said they had other tools at their disposal to address that. many of the disposables ended up being on the market. they had been introduced to the market after the cutoff date in 2016, beyond which no new products were allowed or put on the market without prior authorization by the fda. the fda individually went after these manufactures and said you have to take this off, they are not legally being marketed in the u.s. that was a time consuming and laborious process. one of the popular disposable e-cigarettes that attracted the attention of the fda was tough bar -- puff bar. they said you have to take your products off the market and that has in the fda approach with disposables but it has not have the same sweeping effect as the policy that says no fruity flavored e-cigarette cartridges. it has been kind of whack a mole and many retailers still carry the disposables. host: we have of you on twitter who asked -- guest: i don't have the number offhand but it's certainly lobbying has been a concerted effort. we've seen that juul has had limited success in washington. i remember covering it juul when was public enemy number one in 2019 and they had lobbyists working for them and they ended up alienating regulators and lawmakers. they attracted the ire of their regulator. they have since tried to mend the relationships and regain the trust of the public and of the regulators and lawmakers. they have voluntarily taken the pretty flavors off the market. they have voluntarily stopped most of their u.s. advertising and shut down the u.s. facebook page. they have set they want to be responsible and transparent and regain the trust of the public. they have been trying to really pick -- rehabilitate their image and demonstrate they can be responsible but this decision from the fda is a big setback for them was to host: let's hear from nico in massachusetts. caller: thank you so much for the questions. i have three but i will start with the first one. do you have evidence that political pressure contributed to this order? if so, what does it say about the fda credibility? guest: no, i do not have any evidence that political pressure is part of the process. we know there was political pressure and there were lawmakers that were actively calling on the fda to take juul off the market but i have no evidence that influenced the scientific review process and the fda has said their decision was based on scientific evidence on the application that juul submitted and called it insufficient. host: how much regulation does the cigarette industry have compared to the tobacco industry? guest: that's an interesting question. there were many of -- are many things they are left to do that the cigarette industry cannot. for example, dating back to the 1990's, cigarette industry was barred from sumps -- certain types of marketing like tv and radio and billboards and free swag t-shirts and characters like joe,. camel. many of those were barred for cigarettes and have remained illegal -- remained legal cigarettes also the fda issues authorizations for cigarettes to stay in the market. in each of the authorizations, the fda is still exercising certain marketing restrictions. they complete those reviews and determine which products can stay on the market will step host: how does the tobacco industry view the e-cigarette industry? guest: the tobacco industry views the e-cigarette industry as its future. u.s. smoking rate has been declining for decades. the tobacco companies have been thinking about what the future of their business will be. they know they will not be able to rely on cigarette sales forever and they need to pivot to other alternative products. they have been developing or acquiring nicotine products such as nicotine patches and lozenges and e-cigarettes and tobacco devices with an eye toward a pivot to the future as consumers look to switch to other devices and sources of nicotine knowing that cigarettes are the most harmful form of nicotine consumption the cigarette company see e-cigarettes as the future and this is a bad time foraltria which makes marlboro because they have a big stake in juul. they are the biggest shareholder and juul was supposed to be a big part of their future, they made a big that on it, $12.8 billion for this stake in juul in 2018. it's a setback for them that juul has been restricted. host: let's hear from juan in new jersey. caller: thanks for taking my call. i would like to ask ms. malone, the fda took up the e-cigarettes but legalized marijuana. my point is that when you smoke marijuana, this is a matter of protecting the public and protecting teenagers, they smoked marijuana with no filters and they are getting the full effect of hydrocarbons and its critical to take one off the market and endorse the other. guest: it's an interesting point. should note that there is no federal regulation of cannabis product in the u.s. for that something that has been under discussion. i think it's interesting that as a society, we are becoming more open to the idea of marijuana but the same time in the past several years, e-cigarettes have been vilified. regulators would say they want to help provide a menu of options for adult cigarette smokers. they want to be able to provide alternatives that are significantly less harmful but they are waiting that against the risk to young people and they want to make sure anything they offer is for the u.s. market provides a net and if it's a public health. it will be interesting to see on the cannabis question whether we see some kind of legalization and if so, what would regulation look like. with the fda take regulatory control over the cannabis market? host: before we let you go, in the reading up on this, one of the questions was on the future mental cigarettes. what does that future hold on menthol cigarettes? guest: host: this is hanging over the tobacco industry at the moment step under the buying administration, the fda is moving forward on a rule to ban all menthol cigarettes in the u.s.. u.s. health officials say menthol cigarettes are harder to quit and pose a greater health risk than traditional cigarettes and that they are appealing to young people and getting young people hooked at an early age and it makes it harder to quit. you may know from a methylated cough drop that that cooling sensation, menthol cigarette set a similar situation. it makes it easier for someone who has never smoked or a young kid to pick up a menthol and get hooked on cigarettes. it would take several years to take effect in the market but as part of their overall goal to address smoking related abuse and death and they hope it will help people quit overtime or switch to less armful products. host: you can find her work at >> keep up with the day's biggest events, campaigns, and more from the politics at your fingertips. the latest episodes of washington journal and scheduling information for c-span's tv network and c-span radio app. a variety of compelling podcasts. it is available at the apple store and google play. c-span now, your front row seat to washington. anytime, anywhere. >> c-span has coverage of the u.s. response to russia's invasion of ukraine. the pentagon, and the state department, and as well as congress. we have international opinions all on the c-span networks. the c-span now free mobile app and c-span.org/ukraine. our web resource page we can watch the latest videos on demand and follow tweets from journalists on the ground. go to c-span.org/ukraine. >> c-span has unfiltered coverage of the committee hearings, investigating the attack on the capital. go to c-span.org/january6th to watch the latest videos of the hearings and the coverage on the suspenct investigation since 2021. we also have reaction from members of congress and the white house and journalists and authors talking about the investigation. go to c-span.org/january6th. >> there are a lot of places to get political information. only c-span do get it straight from the source. -- do you get it straight from the source. c-span is america's. network unfiltered. word for word. if it happens here, here, or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. needs political organization and also be -- the head of planned parenthood. >> thank you and good morning. good morning. i am so happy to be here with all of you. thank you so much for that wonderful introduction. thank you all for showing up with your energy and your desire to do good in the world this i was asked by our friends. i was asked to begin by talking with you about why i got into politics and how i got into pocs
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