Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20140824

To discuss race in america, we have a special number for you to dial. Host finally, our fourth line this morning has been set aside for st. Louis area residents. 2025853883. Host we are going to begin this morning with the editorial from the st. Louis post dispatch this morning. Ferguson we earned this. St. Louis earned this moment by not paying attention to immunities dominated by s, becoming then oxygen that fed the flame of protests and concentrated poverty. In the first editorial that this page wrote on the Michael Brown case, we noted that the likelihood of conviction in the low. Is extremely that remains true. It is the simple reality of most police shootings. But there can be an important conviction, the conviction of. E city to change here is the Huffington Post se vote this morning, Huffington Post cut Huffington Post this morning. Showing support for Darren Wilson and other Police Officers. , according to him, got exactly what he deserved. Arnold traveled to the event in. T. Louis on saturday a public unveiling of sorts for pageerek williams support Darren Wilson support page. Not all of the dozens gathered at the pub shared sentiments as blunt as arnolds, but they seemed united in the sense that wilson, not brown, is the real victim. Real the grand jurys considering whether to indict him in his role for the death. Supporters expressed sympathy for browns family but few seemed to think that the dead 18yearold should the spared the rush to judgment they insist. Happening to officer wilson we begin with a call from dan in massachusetts. Dan, first of all, tell us a little bit about yourself. I am 39, acaller construction supervisor with a pretty good job. Probably not the most racially diverse area. What i see happening is certainly there is a race issue in this country. Affluent whites dont want to admit it and blacks are still striving for justice. That report about Darren Wilson getting all the support is pretty alarming. An 18yearold unarmed kid was murdered by a Police Officer who was supposed to be held to a justr standard and it seems really, really out of sorts, out of whack. Im curious what we do about it and where we go from here. Thank you. Jack, from providence, rhode island. Quickly a bit about yourself, then go ahead and make your comment. Caller i am over 60 years old and am a retired mathematics teacher. My wife, who happens to be chinese, she made a pretty valid point. Her in taiwan. When she came to the United States with me we had to go through a legal process. She has a masters degree in economic. Thestarted out with one of major banks as a bank teller. I said to her why would you take that job . With your background ash and mark she said that she wanted to show them her value. This was like 15 years ago. Right now she is the district manager in the new england region of the United States. She made this point to me. She said to me as far as africanamericans are concerned, 100 years from now they are still going to be complaining about race problems instead of, you know, taking care of themselves and showing a value. She basically said that we dont want to study and work overall. There are always exceptions, however, you take a look at the situation in the United States. Ask yourself why. Rate inst unemployment the United States is not whites, its asians. Have a good day, sir. That was jack. Christian is calling in on the 30 and underline. He have divided the calling by age on this washington journal. 49, over 50, 30 to and st. Louis area. Christian, how old are you . Caller im not 30. I dont know where that came from. I am 44. I dont want to give you too much the way that this would get to me, you had all of these caucasians rallying around bundy, a thief who stole millions of dollars from the u. S. Government. They had caucasians, sidearms, automatic weapons, they were pointing them at Police Officers and atf. What happened . You have an 18yearold young black man who gets shot down ash and mark when you have protesters, black road testers, they werent carrying sidearms. Imagine if we were protesting in ferguson and we had sidearms and automatic weapons on us. Do you know what these caucasian cops would do to us . You have these caucasians where it is ok for them to point guns at the atf, at law officials. Nothing happens, nothing happens. But now like i said, if you had black people walking down and protesting with sidearms . Are you africanamerican . What does that have to do with it . Why would you ask that question . What is wrong with america . Why cant i just voice my opinion . What does that matter . Njustice is injustice this is deplorable. Ridiculous. You have caucasians Walking Around with flags that say dont tread on me. You have black people protesting with nothing, no sidearms, no guns, and you guys beat the shit out of us. Host that was christian, oklahoma city. This is joe, las vegas, 19 years old. The biggest change i have noticed is that my wife lets me do anal. D is calling from huntsville, texas. That if you dove a crime, you do the time. If fact guy hadnt robbed a liquor store, beat up the owner, and him and his buddy run out with booze and cigars and shoving people around and then trying to get the policemans gun and the policeman chasing him he could have gotten him with a taser, sure, but how much do police have to take it for they can shoot . They are afraid to work now. The government did not protect them, just like on the border. Host did you grow up in texas . And are you white . Caller yes. Host how integrated is your life . Caller i have worked with many colored people and been real good friends with them. But i dont think that is the issue. He was robbing and stealing and trying to grab the policemans gun. He shouldnt have done that. Bring it back, the topic this morning is not necessarily about the specifics specifics of the Michael Brown case, but about what you think about Race Relations in america today. What do i think about it . I think that when things happen to whites like this, nobody makes a big issue of it. When something happens the blacks, our luther king, everybody comes out and makes a big noise. I think that well, thats what i think. Host thank you for calling in this morning. The lead story in the new york story the lead host kenneth, biloxi, mississippi, 51 years old. Good morning to you. Caller good morning. Yes, i believe that relations have been set act now to appoint i dont think they are ever going to recover. A large part of it is the black population doing it to itself. They cry and complain over everything that happens to them. They have nothing else to do. They begged, they talk, they dont try to do something. Just the same old story. My great great grandfather, great greatgrandmother, they would get up and do something. Dont make yourself look bad. The boy would still be living if you did not go out there to rob a store owner for these cigars that he was going to roll his marijuana in. That is why he is dead today. Copommitted a crime, the came up on him, he took it upon himself to disarm the cop, he got shot, and now Race Relations are set back. I dont think itll ever recover. How would you describe Race Relations in block c, mississippi . Caller its pretty rough around here, man. You get the cold shoulder. You can feel it. Its terrible and i dont think it will ever recover. Host are you from mississippi . Caller originally louisiana. Host so, you grew up in the south. Caller yes. Host is it different in the south than other places in the country, do you think . Caller i think it is the same across the board. Host have you ever have you ever had black friends, black neighbors . Caller plenty. Plenty. The older people, we used to get along with the older folks, you know . But now that the younger crowd is coming along, the past couple and theseions socalled leaders that they have it,ey keep fueling instigating it, making a dollar off the black man because they keep antagonizing and i and antagonizing. Leaders. Not really they are detrimental to their own race with what they are doing. Mainnk that one of the conspirators of it now is our socalled president obama. He is fueling it himself. That is kenneth, from biloxi, mississippi. Jones, charlotte whois toshara jones, writes in the st. Louis postdispatch this morning. In the have spoken out past about similar issues, i have been met with the response that you are racist comments that of opening a dialogue to understand my point of view. Host at the end of her oped, she talks about the young Citizens Council and promotes this website, in case youre tshootmo, as in missouri,. Com. Charlie, give us your perspective. Caller i am a trade school teacher. I am looking around the world right now. The world is a sick man fire. Going these atrocities on, this is a diversion for our attentions. We have bigger fish to fry if we look at the forest and not the tree. Racism is here. We have a history of having slaves in the United States and usually dont have to deal with racism, but the world is on fire and we have a great things to worry about an hour internal problems. We are being attacked every which way. You know, ukraine and russia could turn into a world war. Nuclear bombs could be going off and we are worried about this little stuff going on in the United States. Thats my opinion. Earl, you are on washington journal this morning. Caller Race Relations are horrible. Theyve never changed. Black people in this country will never achieve true independence until we seek our own nation. Take two examples, for instance. The clive and monday incident. The right was screaming mad because of the small Police Presence at his ranch after he lost several court cases and oh the federal government upwards of 1 million. You look at the incident where theater was shot up, a young man killed several people, he was arrested without any incident. When you talk about racial issues, we are talking about the true double standards in this country. White america seems to think that slavery was some sort of favor to black folks. These people dont even work in the farming industry now, forrmind the jobs of slaves 200 years, perpetuating the lie around the world that Christopher Columbus discovered america and that they were the hardest working people on the planet. That is untrue. Black people worked in this nation and were given nothing. We support israel, billions of dollars per year, yet the black evil in this country cannot even achieve our own nation independently because we dont get the funding. We did not get what we were owed. Host tell us about yourself a little bit. What do you do and when you say a separate nation, what are you talking about . Caller a sovereign nation the same way that israel was created in 1978. Im talking about true independence. We will never see never receive justice in the United States. These people have no conscience. Host who are these people . Caller the white power inches infrastructure. Host how integrated is your life . Caller very integrated. Boston,p in massachusetts, lot of white friends, a lot of catholic friends, but they are still part of a culture that has been oppressing lack close doc folks for hundreds of years. Im saying that we can never achieve justice in a nation that has a history of oppression. We have basically been living under apartheid for 400 years. They put a bandaid on it he says they tried to give moral authority around the world. Andr nations have chimed in said look at the way that they treat their own people, how can they tell other nations how to interact with democracy and human relations when they treat their own citizens like garbage . Host this is the front page of the Washington Post close up Washington Post this morning. Host if you want to read the rest of the story, washingtonpost. Com. Indiana, daniel, 27 years old. Go ahead. Hello. I agree that the situation is not looking very well, but i believe it is a symptom of the bigger problem, which is a misinformed opinion. We certainly dont have enough information on the case from ferguson to come to the conclusion that everyone jumps to. I suspect that thats a problem with the whole world. Just the genetics of the human being. People jumping to conclusions very quickly. I believe thats the primary concern here. Host where is memphis, indiana . Caller close to cincinnati. Host how integrated is the town . Caller this particular town, not well at all. But i have been working at a very integrated business, about 10 African American. All right, thank you. Lou, grand rapids, michigan. Also 27. You are on washington journal. What do you think . Racism will always exist and continue to be a problem. People just have too many biases. It is all really about upbringing. I am multiracial. I am three races, mexican, indian, and black. I have dealt with racism and it is all about how you are wrought up. If you are openminded and always thinking like your grandmother told you life is not fair, it is what you make it. If you try and work hard you will get what you want in life, but if you sit there and want something to be given to you or not look at the whole picture in general, then you will have a problem with race. People nowadays never just look at the Bigger Picture and are ugliness,sgusted with ultimately it will be the problem of a lot of people. Dont look at the color of the skin. Look at what the person is saying to you. Host what do you do in grand rapids . Caller i used to be a Guest Services manager for a big company and i recently just started truck driving. Host really . I just have to ask you, is that uncommon, for women to drive semi trucks . Is very uncommon. Especially for a mother to drive. I basically have a sevenyearold who is with his father while i am on the road. I get a lot of people time to im scared. If i actually love my job. Im an owner operator. We own three trucks, my fiancee and i. The payfits are great, is great, we get to see and travel the world. From what you have experienced around the country, our Race Relations different in different parts of the country . Caller safe to say its very different. I always thought in the south there would be more southern hospitality, but it seems like in the south you deal with more racism. People a really rude to you if they dont necessarily know you. They treat you really differently. Treated really different. I would say that in mississippi and the wheezy and i have come across a lot of rude people. Throughout michigan, indiana, texas, they had good southern hospitality, but by looking at me i look lack. But the way that i talk or present myself people are always like we know shes not quite hair isecause my different. English is my second language, spanish is my first. People always ask me what are you. I was asked them why would you ask me what i am . Im having a general conversation with you. Host what do you think about the president s response to what happened in ferguson . I dont really have an opinion. It is a media reaction. If there was not that much press, would he have really sent anyone to the funeral . I dont have an opinion on the st. Louis thing because there are things happening every day, everywhere. Been blown out of proportion with them retaliating the way they do. If people would just mind their business, it probably would have been taken care of a lot easier and faster with everyone else involved into it. Just because everyone else is involved does not mean you will have a better outcome in the situation. In grandt is lou rapids. Owner operator of three semi trucks. Acai become a good morning. Good morning. Caller i want to say to a lot white collars, you have a lot of black on black crime and people fighting against what happened to young Michael Brown. It is unfortunate that the but you havepened, a lot such as my wife is married to a close confidant to will smith. They do a lot of things in the Africanamerican Community that dont get publicized. We marched in 2006 against the violence in philadelphia. They off eric on. They got cnn. A lot of White Americans only see and hear what they want to see and hear. He has been doing that for like 25 years. Like the jim browns, they even have a gang program and los angeles for over 40 years. Mohamed ali, most death mos def, the actor, the actor ice cube, he does a lot. Of had a you have a lot black men doing things in the community. But a lot of whites only see and hear what they want to see and hear and the white media doesnt cover it because it is positive, they only focus on the negative. Thank you for calling in this morning. This is an oped by janine outreach director for Freedom Works and the author obama is driving americans to the government plantation. A collection of race hustlers, the event in ferguson is tragic. A Police Officers future hangs in the balance in the aftermath of the shooting and there are nightly protests and looting of property on display. Host little bit from that oped this morning in washington times. , georgia, 42 years old. Go ahead. Caller how are you this morning . Host good, how are you . Caller doing fine. Just listening to some of these colors it is really disturbing to me. None of us are foolish enough to believe that racism has ended in overca, that it is all just because a president is biracial or black. You know, but for this one kid you know, there are millions and millions of other black children who wake up everyday and go to school and do exactly what they are supposed to do. My children into the air force. One last year, another is leaving in a few. Kids every day doing exactly what they are supposed to do. What i am hearing from these people is that all that they are paying attention to is what happened in ferguson. That thats where their focus is. Thats where everyones anger is. They are all upset, you know . And there is also a generation gap. The older collars tell us that it is horrible, by people do this, why people do that its all appear and i dont want it. I come from a biracial background. I have been listening. Expectationsds of i thought that they would be this, they would be that. There was nothing like that. I ran into some knuckleheads. Some black, some white, you know . I have lived all over the place. I military. Depending on where you live and who you are around and how you,e are and get to know ive met people from all kinds of race everywhere. Is a microcosm of a problem in the United States of america, but it could happen anywhere. Even the article that you just read, actually, you know, in trying to unveil the truth about al sharpton and everyone else i disagree with them. Do sensationalize it for their own use, but in the article they use that example to attack the president. Like the president called al sharpton, called someone and said lets make Race Relations bad. Im going to make this whole nation of hustlers, do this, try to ruin things. The president of the United States . You think thats what he is sitting around doing in his office . It is just misinformation. How we live here in this country, it is like everything on this guy. Like hes just responsible for the cloud, the storm anything and everything is some kind of reason to tear down somebody. There are lots of good people in this country. Lots of good people doing good things in this country. Republican, democrat, whoever they are. Terrel froms jonesboro, georgia. From the st. Louis postdispatch, this morning, this is about prosecuting attorney robert mccullough. Host jamie, san antonio. Jamie is sorry about that 60 six years old. You are on the washington journal. How would you describe Race Relations in america . Caller that may save his first, i was among one of the first blacks to integrate the schools in atlanta, georgia. 62. I am a vietnam veteran. Spent 20 years in the military, 20 years in the civil service. World traveled around the two or three times. I totally and wholeheartedly endorse the comments from the young lady truck driver. And i endorse what the last person said. The problem in america is so many people never left their hometown. They never traveled outside their own bubble. That, bornple like anything that comes across they will take. You know . Its people like that, the older stuck inhat are still the 30s and 40s and 50s who refuse to change. The younger people are changing. It is those older people that are really stuck in their ways running america. You are 66. Host do you feel stuck in your ways . Caller no. I have seen different countries, different environments. I know that no one in the world has the same ideas or the same ethics. We learn from our experience. We are a product of our environment. Unless you can expand your knowledge, expand your , and accept people for who they are and not try to going toople, you are have problems. Rather it is the sunnis and the shiites, the muslims and the jews, the whites and the blacks, brothers and sisters. You know . Its the way that you were brought up. I was brought up that you dont earn respect. E to you are not given respect, you have to earn it. Earning it means being openminded. You are calling from san antonio, a largely hispanic city. What does that add to the rate is race issue in america . Caller it is a largely hispanic city but also a largely military city where people have traveled and people understand people. The problem is that whites control the government. The texas government. Where power stands, thats where the state, the city, the nation stands. People are afraid of losing their jobs if they speak up. So, it is a little bit of fear. Little bit of absence of knowledge. Like the people that called and accused the sky of stealing, beating up the manager, all this other stuff. Its an absence of knowledge and someone went in and fill that void. That thats the way that they behave because that is the way they believe because of the environment that they grew up in. Is jamie, san antonio. Next up is louise, 70, you are on washington journal. Worst of all, tell us a little bit about your life over the last 70 years. Im 72 years old. I have lived in florida for about 32 years. I think that Race Relations are like a work in progress. Me, jamie,before from texas, had it absolutely right not right on. Florida is very similar to texas. Government is very powerful here, especially white government. My own personal feeling is that too many whites have their head dont sand and if we start empathizing and understanding our fellow americans, how can we have understanding with other cultures and countries . Disappointed not to see more whites more angry when was killed here, not far from where we live. 20 miles away in sanford. Hadknow, if Trayvon Martin been a young, white teenager in a hoodie and zimmerman shot him, they would have arrested him. I have no doubt about that at all. When a kid can be killed like that and we cant empathize and understand . What it is and look at the politics behind it . My dad was a new york city policeman. This is going way back, 60 years ago. He walked a beat. He walked down those neighborhoods. Bedford stuyvesant. He never had to pull his gun once. Never once. There were times he was scared. He walked a beat by himself in a patrol car. But you had to talk to people. He had that demeanor about him. That when he moved to florida. He said you know . There are a lot of angry cops in the south. They have that attitudes. He said that some of these young kids, these young cops, you give them a fast car and a gun and they become terrible with it. He had a way of putting things a certain way. Thank you for taking my call. Thank you very much. Host thanks for watching. A couple of more articles from the st. Louis postdispatch this morning. A moderate, twoterm governor, a scandal free personal resume with a folksy persona that plays well in medical memo america. His one brief rush with the host also from a newspaper, st. Louis county police off Police Forces often dont reflect communities. Host the article goes on to say that Police Chiefs site various reasons for not keeping up with the change, including a lack of applicants, officers leading are bigger and better jobs in better departments. Last week officials said they are looking for better ways. Did they include developing programs to track more africanamerican police applicants, expanding and enhancing School Resource officer programs and creating incentives for Police Officers who live in the city. A little bit from the st. Louis postdispatch this morning. Aggie, frederick, maryland. What do you think about Race Relations . Here in america. Caller as far as Race Relations go, you know i have a lot of things to say, but i wont say everything because of time permitting. But from the standpoint of how i feel at this moment . Fear from lot of white folks. I am generalizing, of course. I think that white peoples overall sense of them losing quote unquote control of america has really brought a lot of people into an uproar. That has happened since the election of obama, i think. I know the tea party said that they started before his election, but they really kicked in once they took office and took the presidency. I think a lot of these incidents, as a result of us not understanding each other. I think that white folks dont really understand black folks because they have never had to have to understand. As far as people talking about Something Like multiculturalism or Something Like that, in general they are saying like black folks have to deal with it all the time, you guys are the majority in this country. Host as an African American you feel you understand why people . Caller im not going to sail like that, but i think we have been forced to be around white folks a lot more than white folks have been forced to be around black folks or any other people. Because of that we can understand them a little better and maybe they can understand us. Im generalizing, of course, maybe some people dont want to understand the plight of others. I think that is the root of a lot of the problems here. How would you describe Race Relations in frederick . About 30 miles north of d. C. It could always be better. I went to a school that was fairly newly built. I graduated from a school there that was like 99 white. At and up going to college historically black college. My experiences at those different institutions were vastly different. Tocould be college compared high school, but it could be the racial makeup of the school. It is really a simple fact. People are more comfortable around their own people, but that doesnt mean we cant get along at some point. Host what do we do in frederick . Caller i work for the government. I dont actually work in frederick, i just live there. Host thank you, sir. Deanna, calling from marble hill, missouri. Where is that . Caller a little small town. Host on the river south of st. Louis . Caller yep. Host ok. Race relations in america. First of all, tell us about yourself. Caller i have a twoyearold, am married, have my own house now. I work hard. Host ok. Caller i just wanted to say that i know that it was wrong that the cop should not have ever have shot him in the first lace. He should have used something milder, like a stun gun, you know . I believe that kids should never have been messing with the cop in the first place. He should have listened to the cop, he would never have been shot, never have been dead. With the protests going on, you are pissed off, i understand that. There is no need to become to be causing more mayhem to the beautiful city of st. Louis. I have been there. It is a wonderful place. There is no need for all of this. Host what is the solution . Liker taken to court every other person. He may get time. Thats understandable. He did something wrong using a gun instead of something other, calling back up, you know. But, i mean sorry, i get nervous when i talk on the phone. Thats ok. We appreciate your calling in. What kind of work do you do . Disabled work with the , the mentally disabled, and the elderly. I get on and off racism from elderly clients. And i work with a black mental disabled, his name i cant really say because i know he is listening right now. [laughter] caller you are 22 years old host you are 22 years old. Do you think that your view on race is different from someone who is 70 or 50 . Up with my dad, who was a racist, but he believed that if you were a black man that went out and got a job, you were important to the world. But selling drugs and all of that . Thats not. You are pretty much putting your stereotype at an alltime high. You are out there and getting a job like everyone else , theres nothing wrong there. Thank you for calling in. You are on washington journal. Race relations in america, they could be better, but they are not. People inbecause higher up positions would like them to not be better, if you understand what im saying. Host first of all, identify those people and then tell us the reason why you think that they dont want Race Relations to be better. Caller people, those people, i guess they would be people with money. Host white people . Caller not necessarily. I dont think that racism is so much the problem anymore as much as classism. But racism is still relevant because a lot of the media tries to make these racial things explode. There are still a lot of ignorant americans out there who are very sensitive to this information. It divides the people at the bottom. It makes white people, black people, brown people, fight each other and not really realize what is going on in the world. John, you are from memphis, where Martin Luther king was of course killed. The racially divided city, isnt it . Sir, it is. Like i said, i believe it is for the same reason. There are a lot of blacks here. A lot of hispanic people. A lot of whites, but they live more in the suburbs. I think that the racial divide is more of not really. Nderstanding each other depending on media such as i dont know if i can say host you can say what everyone. Whatnot,ox news, msnbc. Especially fox news. Foxof them are biased, but news is like a freaking monster. Its a propaganda machine. T gets people wound up people calling obama muslim, saying we dont want america to be another mosque host are those code words to you . It is. Young urban youth, a code word for urban youth equals black . Caller right. I have served my country, of course. I gotdnt stay in because injured, but i did serve my country, i got injured, trying to make something of myself. So i am shaky, im nervous. Youre fine. Are your parents or grandparents may be old enough to remember when Martin Luther king was shot . Have they ever talk to you about it . Have they ever talked about if or how Race Relations have changed in memphis since that time . My parents or 58 and 59. Theyre pretty caller my parents or 58 and 59. They are pretty young. We all understand that there are still racial problems in america, you know . You cant deny that. And if you deny that i believe you are just been ignorant. But i believe the main problem different entities again, i dont know who these are, but they not i know they are people with money. ,eal, real money trying to keep you know, the rest of us divided among each other so that we just cant understand the problems of the world and cant govern ourselves. It is supposed to be a government for the people, by the people, and its not really that because we are too ignorant to even know what is going on in the world. Think that your attitude towards race is different from that of your parents . Caller not really. My errands are not racist or anything, but they are more, you know, i guess uneasy around white people . Not a bad way, you know. We work with white people all the time around here. Most of the managers here are white. Older, sotheyre just the Civil Rights Era was not too long ago, you know . They have been through that. My dad used to tell me stories about how they used to have riots at the schools when they segregated, when he was a kid. Got theegated, segregated or whatever. Right, right. Or whatever. Ed right, right. Of course they are a little bit more uneasy. But it is not really an issue in our house. We tend to try to be more intelligent and civilized people. Host is john, from memphis. Next, frederick in fort pierce, florida. Good morning. Good morning. I wanted share, i am a truck driver and independent singersongwriter musician and minister of the gospel. I am also a registered sex offender and have been out a present for over 20 years. First of all, i want to say that dealing with this shooting, i have to air on the side of the professionals psychologists that were interviewed on National Television on a national network. It is impossible to think that , theso much has gone on anger, the discrimination, the different problems that have of course people are going to be upset. Of course people are going to arrive. , we that thought in mind have to look at and this is my opinion that whatever it is to his dealing with the investigation of this matter , to me it is very important that it be done in a timely manner. Authority, local level first, then it goes to the yes, but makeate, sure that whoever is in authority at the time does the job, does it precisely, and make a determination as to what is right and wrong. After that is done the reason , say whoever is in authority it is appropriate for those within the authority it is what the citizens of america have placed their trust and hopes and, to exercise what is right. Host we are going to leave it there. Thank you for calling in. Inexplicably, no one knows how many ibo are killed each year by police. This is from the Washington Post. Tom, 67 years old. Good morning, you are on the washington journal. Caller thank you for having me. I came from a family who was antisegregation before antisegregation was cool. My father was in the air force in 1959. He tried the black men in his kidsion had to send their to macon, georgia, 19 miles away so that they could go to a segregated lack school. He tried, because the government was sub financing the schools in the area, he tried to force to take thes children of the black airmen in the schools there. My fathers reward for that was being passed over for promotion and we were shipped off to a career ending assignment in illinois. I want to say that before i say this, that is that my sense of Race Relations in america is , but what seems to be getting in the way is that we hear a lot about blacks talking s and less worry about their reputation. There are two equations that are present in america that, unfortunately, you can say yeah or nay on this, but they exist. The first is that young blacks equal crime. The other is black students equal poor schools. Are you saying those equations are true . Buter not necessarily, they are there. You can say they are wrong, but can you prove it wrong . There are studies that show that , if black crime was eliminated from the United States, the United States would have the lowest crime rate in the world. You could say that is right or wrong, but that is a legitimate study. Others. E the black schools, when they were forced to desegregate in florida, went downhill. They were it was a disaster. And even today, if a white kid is going to a Public School, people are saying, oh, that poor kid, he has to go to a Public School. So, lets look at the reverse. What if black people had the reputation that when their kid goes to school, when there are a lot of black kids going to school, but the school gets better . What if there was a reputation that a higher black population had less crime . Do you understand what im trying to say . Had a raceyou ever relation discussion with an africanamerican . Moved fromen i florida to phoenix and i actually have black friends that i went out to dinner with. I moved to this area in 1980. And my i didnt have a racist bone in my body. I had black friends. We ate together, went out together, socialized, but as time went on, there were horrific crimes being committed in this area by black men. What are whites white people supposed to think when stores . Theft in what are they supposed to think when they see the spectacle in new orleans and st. Louis, with stores andking into taking things and saying they deserve it . Really . You deserve it . What are they supposed to think . It goes to reputation. You can talk about rights up and down the line. If somebody comes to me and says my rights were violated, i want to hear about it and i want to know all the details, but im a you know what, you never get all the details that but, you know what . You never get all the details. Host david, you are on the washington journal. Caller how are you doing, sir . I think a big problem is white folk, they dont know anything. A lot of them know nothing about black history, nothing. Completely nothing. Folk black man invented the combustible engine. It takes them to work and it was money in their pocket. When you stop at a light, a black man did that. Like, they dont teach black history and a lot of schools, especially white schools. They dont teach it at all. We had slavery a little bit, and then thats it. They dont go into detail about it or anything. A couple other comments that the made, we have to know white folk. We have to know you guys. We just have to know you. Where put in a position we have to listen to you. We are put in a position where we cannot really have our own opinion. We just have to do it to keep our job. And if we go against it, youre looking at a termination or Something Like that. I just think a lot of it is just ignorance, that they just dont know this at all. Host what kind of work do you do in vegas . Caller i do convention work. Host ok. David, are you a different person around white people than you are around other africanamericans . Caller not really. Not really. Im a military brat. I have grown up i was brought up around every nationality there is. I lived in japan for five years. Im welltraveled. It is like the one gentleman was saying. A lot of people have never been out of the box. They have never left home. Youve got people whove never left texas. Youve got some people who never left mississippi. Youve got people who just never left. , evenfind in my travels with the work i do now, when you talk to people from that area, it is like youre are talking to someone from outer space. It is almost like you are talking to a little kid. Host weve heard from some of callers, collars whove expressed some stereotypes or prejudices. What is one of your prejudices . What do you think of when you think of white people and you think, ok, there is going to be white people there . What is your initial reaction . Caller i just dont want to deal with a big it a bigot. Ever since barack, sometimes, its far and inbetween. Bigotry has picked up since we had a black president , and it just has. From day one, when he was giving his speech and the guy said, you liar, that was a big it a big ot talking. And the double standards have got triple standards. Its like the old saying which you see in the black community, they can, but you better not. Host we had a young, africanamerican guy, john, call in from memphis, tennessee. He thinks it is more of a class issue. Caller it is that also. I agree with him. It is that also. But at the same time, you have a lot of poor whites that are doing good at all. I see it every day in vegas. When i came from california out here it just blew me away that i saw so many white folks begging. It blew me away. I didnt think it existed. But when i got here, first time i ever dealt with it and saw it, i was like, wow. It is economics, too. A couple colors saying call ers saying, they are burning down you have to look at economics in that area. Host thank you. We are going to continue this conversation. If you are on the phone line, dont hang up. We are going to bring our three guests out and we will continue to take our calls as we go. Eleanor clift, long time washington observer, longtime newsweek thomas newsweek correspondent. Talk show host Armstrong Williams. And paul butler. We will hear more about Race Relations, terrorism, and isis on the network tv talk shows. You can hear them rebroadcast at noon eastern. Guests include missouri democratic governor jay nixon, who is making appearances on several of todays talkshows. On meet the press, congressman mike rogers, reverend al sharpton, republican senator rand paul, and britains ambassador to the u. S. Ith housethis week w Homeland Security chairman congressman mike mccall and democratic congressman lacy clay. 2 00, senator john mccain and dr. Ben carson, author of one nation. Also, reverend Jesse Jackson. Of the union follows at 3 00 p. M. , another appearance by jay nixon. Face the nation from cbs, with lacy clay once wisconsin, ryan of senator kelly ayotte, and mike rrell. L mike mo again, the rebroadcast of the shows begins at noon eastern with nbcs meet the press. 1 00 this week. Sunday. News 3 00 face the nation. Cspan orthem here on on cspan radio. Download the app or listen online to cspan. Org. Next week, special primetime programming on the cspan networks. Debate from glasgow, a over scottish independence. Ofues on targeting conservative groups. On educating children from disadvantaged backgrounds. Thursday, ehouse Budget Committee hearing a house Budget Committee hearing. Friday night, native american history. On cspan2, book tv in prime time. Monday, a discussion about school choice. Tuesday night, writer John Hope Bryant on how the poor can save capitalism. Withdnesday, an interview the author of a biography about neil armstrong. On thursday, a tour of book for bush or simon schuster. Of book published simon schuster. Cspan three, monday, the reconstruction era and civil rights. Tuesday, the end of world war ii and the atomic bomb. Wednesday night, the 25th anniversary of the fall of the berlin wall. Thursday, a look at how americans attitudes about world war i changed through the course of the war. And on friday, a nasa are commensurate about the apollo 11 moon landing. Nasa documentary about the apollo 11 moon landing. Email us at comments cspan. Org. Join the speech the cspan conversation. Like us on facebook. Follow us on twitter. This month, cspan presents debates on what makes america great, evolution, and genetically modified foods. Issues spotlight with indepth look at veteran hair veteran health care, student loan debt, and campus sexual assault. New perspective on issues including global warming, Voting Rights, fighting infectious disease, and food safety. And our history to her showing site and sounds from americas history tour, showing sights and sounds from americas history. Let us know what you think about the programs you are watching. Call us. Email us at comments cspan. Org. Join the conversation. Like us on facebook. Follow us on twitter. The washington journal continues. Host paul butler. Law professor, former prosecutor, as somebody who has been arrested, what is your take on ferguson . Guest im tired of this happening over and over again. It is not just ferguson. It is staten island. It is that 51yearold grandmother who was beaten by the cops. Hit her 10 times. All of these unarmed africanamericans being brutalized by police. I think it is important to have a conversation about race and to put it in a larger context, in which african lives just dont seem to be valued. Host that is larger context . Guest it is not just criminal justice. It is civil justice. It is not just africanamericans. It is people of color. It is important to talk about race. White americans who are disenfranchised. The Lgbt Community has issues with the Justice System. But it is important to realize that africanamericans it is the classic american dilemma. There was a lot of hope when barack obama was elected. I dont think anyone thought that it would reverse a legacy of 400 years of slavery and segregation, but there was the thought, the expectation that we would move forward on Racial Justice. Looking at ferguson, looking at civil rights protesters being gassed in the streets like it is the 1960s, it doesnt seem like we have come that far. Host Armstrong Williams, what is your take on ferguson . Guest good morning. Anis so unfortunate to see innocent individual shot six times. The Law Enforcement have phasers tasers. They have batons. They have so many other options. If you remember the Supreme Court rulings, even their own guidelines, the last thing you want to do is shoot an individual. , theerstand the outrage family. In our system of law, innocent until proven guilty. On a deeper level, i think we as americans must get to a point where we are outraged at all lives that are lost in such a tragic way, whether it is in chicago, the kind of crime and feelings that go on there every weekend, whether it was what happened in new york. Because i dont i think it is less about race and more about Law Enforcement. I think it is about the training of Law Enforcement. Weve had an opportunity to talk to Police Officers. They will tell you in their training sessions, when theyre showing images of what criminals are and who commits the crimes, most of the images are of young black men. That is unfortunate. If you live in a place like in missouri or new york, where it is a high concentration of andle who look the same they commit the same crime over and over again, i dont care what your training is with Law Enforcement or the rulings are of the Supreme Court, you begin to believe that is a picture of crime. Somehow or another, we have to get back, is ashley with young men take chicago as an example. Why do these young People Killed . They believe that the gun gives them power. If someone disrespects them, the piece of power they have is to take someones life. Fathers are not in the home. It is more than Law Enforcement. It goes back to the communities. The other issue is, well, we have to have a conversation about the value of life, personal responsibility, and accountability. We need to get away from this thing about race. It is less about race and it is about human beings. I would be just as outraged if the kid was latino, if the kid was white, if it did work day. If the kid were gay. I will give you this stat alone for the last year. 100 black men have been killed by Law Enforcement at the sirs. 5000 alone have been killed by black on black crimes. If you want to militarize someplace, it should not be a place like missouri. It should be chicago. To me, there is something it goes back to training and Law Enforcement. We have to value all lives, regardless of their race. Host Eleanor Clift, ferguson. Guest if you talk about this in the context of all the other problems we have to solve, it gets overwhelming. I agree we have to tackle many of the issues that armstrong just raised. But if we take it back to ferguson, we do have a case of a parent Excessive Force of apparent Excessive Force, even in this young man stole some conveniencerom a store, he did not deserve to have six shots fired into him. Now we go through the wheels of justice. We have a president who has announced for the first time that our criminal Justice System is not fair. I think you can look at the people condemned, sometimes wrongly, to death, look at the numbers in prisons, and you can tell there is something wrong. There are some social logical issues at play here as well. But the criminal Justice System does not operate in a fair way. I think the president did the right thing by having his attorney general go to ferguson. The appearance of eric holder did have a calming effect. I think there are many more trouble spots ahead. We dont know if the grand jury will return an indictment. We dont know if it will result in charges. You dont know if or how this officer will be punished. We dont know all the facts. I think there are many flashpoints ahead. I think the conversation certainly, as you are having on the show, is out there. It demonstrates a pretty big racial divide in this country still. We may have a black president , a black attorney general, but we have a lot of white, entrenched power, and we have a country that is changing rapidly. A lot of people feel uneasy about that. The president s election, rather than assuaging those feelings, has brought them out to the open. Now we can deal with them. I commend you for having the show. A longtimeeen washington observer. How do you think Race Relations have changed in this city and throughout your lifetime . Ew,st i think there is a n professional class of African Americans, certainly in washington, that was probably always there, but is very much more visible in the last years since the president has been in office. I applaud that. I lived in northwest washington, which is still dominantly white, but i have several black neighbors. In my own personal family, we have some interracial marriage. I am very comfortable with it. I applaud it. I recognize that there are some people who feel threatened. Host paul butler, what is your personal racial situation . Guest i live in the middle class, integrated neighborhood. Ive watched washington and ive lived here for the last 20 years. In some ways, it is like many cities. Many of the poor people, who are disproportionately africanamerican, get moved out, and middleclass people, often young, white people, move into these neighborhoods. They walk their dogs in the street. It is nice to see the neighborhoods, quoteunquote, improving, but you wonder why that has to always be at the expense of poor people and africanamericans. You go to these yuppie restaurants and there are very few africanamerican waiters. We are not benefiting from the progress the supposedly less that we are making in terms of race in this country. Africanamericans are still left out. When we look at other groups that have been subordinated, italian, irish come a jew all eventuallyy move up. Africanamericans dont seem to have the same access to the american dream. I find that troubling. Host Armstrong Williams. Guest im an employer. I own a television station. When you are an employer and you employ hundreds of people and you have been an employer for the last 28 years, you see all kinds of people that come through your place of employment. And what matters is confidence competence. Whether you show up on time, whether you work late, and what you produce. I have not experienced racism. I say this often. People think im crazy. We grew up on a farm, where we were isolated, bred in an incubator. My parents did not pass on the bitterness or the segregation they experienced. They did not pass that onto us. We did not drink from that trough. My parents gave us a clean slate. They said you write your own narrative. We had a mother and father in the household. We learned as a fling, sacrifice, respect for Law Enforcement. We learned discipline, sacrifice, respect for Law Enforcement. My father told us, if you are stopped by Law Enforcement, that is a person of authority with a you are say, yes, right. No back talk. That has always worked for me. Ive never had anything it is all about my attitude. Whether they are right or wrong, it doesnt matter. My father taught me this lesson. When you go through life and you get an education and youre able to build wealth, it becomes less about race and more about class. I think we all can agree with this. If that it does have an impact when 70 of the population is when 70 of the population have no fathers in the house will. I see employees who come from singleparent households versus two parents. Then we the men react different to authority. We take a lot of these kids and mentor. They dont believe they can be successful. All you have to do is get an education. Sometimes the best things that happen in life, you cant explain. They believe in this narrative of what black is, criminals, drug users, uneducated, imprisoned. The women and children i know are not that way. I see so many young blacks all the time. They are not successful because they are black. They are successful because their dna is selfworth, selfesteem, and they dont buy into this america is racist. Guest but that doesnt matter. Trayvon martin was on his way to his dads house. The young man killed by police in new york st. Louis, he was supposed to start school this week. The problem is not about fixing young black men. It is about fixing the system. It is about fixing the police, the criminal Justice System. I totally agree with you, eleanor. It is unfair. We need to look at these structures. When you are saying you get stopped by the police, it doesnt sound like youve never been the victim of discrimination. It sounds like you have an attitude where you want to ignore that, but it sounds like the police know you are black, employers know you are black. There was a study that said if youre a black man who has a college degree, you dont have the same chances as a white man who has a criminal record. If employers look at your resume and see you have a, quoteu nquote, black name, you don[t dont getet you the same callbacks that you do if you have a white name. Guest its about your way of thinking. Everyone knows that story. There are always exceptions. Yes, there are people who have racism in their heart, but that is not the whole story. We should also give these kids the other story. When Police Officers stop me, i never think about race. Your story is just part of the story. You have to make these kids believe there is opportunity. Guest older people who came out of the Civil Rights Era do think you submit and you respect authority. Younger people are not willing to do that, whether they are white or black. We still have that generational divide in ferguson. Go to calls. To we divided our phone lines by age. We have a roundtable, paul butler, Armstrong Williams, Eleanor Clift. We will put the numbers on the screen so you can dial in at the number most appropriate to you. Under 30, 31 to 49, over 50. Have you seen a difference in how white people view race when it comes to different generations . Guest i do think young people are colorblind, which was the goal of Martin Luther king, jr. Difference. Ee any they are intermarrying. I think they have gotten over it. I have always been openminded. I grew up in new york city. My parents were immigrants at a delicatessen store. When my brought when i brought a friend home, my father would ask what is the last name. Carol murphy you knew by the last name whether they were polish, italian, irish. That was important to my father, who actually was a terrible bigot in his own house. He was wonderful in the store to everyone, but, boy, that always made me the champion of the underdog. Thats where i got my values from. Plus, i had a brother who was 16 years old or who was a new deal liberal. And he made sure that i grew up right. And then as a young woman i moved to atlanta working for newsweek. That was the first time i really saw an integrated society. Atlanta was a city too busy to hate. They were working on integration. They were surrounded by five dominantly black colleges. There i met many black people who were far more educated than me, which was eyeopening in that era. That is kind of how i came of age on this issue. Host paul butler, very quickly, is your attitude toward race different from your parents . Guest i think im more optimistic than my parents. They grew up in chicago, the city that Martin Luther king said was the most segregated that he had ever seen. I had great opportunities to go to a nice just with high school tnd then to a nice jesui high school and then onto some Great Colleges and law schools. I was exposed to some of the young people eleanor described, people who were more openminded about race. I think im less cynical than they are. Guest my parents were wonderful. They experienced much racism and discrimination, but they also said along the way when they would make assumptions and judgments about people, they found that these people became their greatest allies and friends in life. They always told us not to judge someone based on their color of their skin, but their character and whether the values were similar. It is one of the best gifts my parents have given me. Host let me apologize to call her to callers. We planned on talking for just about five minutes, but then we got into their personal stories and youth i thought you might find that interesting as well. We are going right to calls. We will spend the next hour and a half taking your calls for our roundtable, race in america. St. Louis, missouri, thanks for holding on. You are on the washington journal. Caller thank you for taking my call. I find your guests very interesting. I am from st. Louis. With theen out there demonstrators nightly. My background is an activist with Police Crimes and Police Brutality decades cases for decades. I can give you several names in history. I know folks there are familiar. Ith fannie lou as she said some years ago, im sick and tired of being sick and tired of these Police Crimes against our youth. ,hat has happened in ferguson it is clearly a revolt and rebellion of young folks who are not willing to take it anymore. They dont want anymore Trayvon Martin verdicts or rodney king verdict. What happened in ferguson, the people are hurt, really hurt. Interesting what your guests have said. I know the time is always limited. What is getting the young people going forward, getting the young people involved in politics,aking, in involved in what controls their community it is very interesting as an eyewitness. Im seeing it unfold and unveil. I think it is very despicable to be putting it in the light that the officer is the victim. Host could i ask you could i give could you give us how old you are . Guest i am 70 years old. Host and youve been out of ferguson several times . Guest yes. Host when did you start to become an activist in issues like this. Like this . 19 79. 1979. Not making in the 1990s. Rodney king in the 1990s. Folks who never made the news. Time and time again, young black men are killed by the police and nothing is done. That devalues black life. Young people are rebelling against the situation they find. Oousy education, no jobs, and n health care. So, they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. Host thank you, maam. Armstrong williams, quick, short answer for xenobia . Guest the Ferguson Police have new througha through a hiring process. They have fired the police. They feel they have a prosecutor who is out of control, who has always shown bias toward the Police Department, against these young men. What has happened with this young man who was shot like an everythinggalvanized they have been feeling for so long. Obviously, people are upset. We have to change this. We cannot take it anymore. I can sympathize, absolutely. Burbank,tin, mark, illinois, 57 years old. Guest im going to put a little spin on everything ive been hearing this morning. Im so proud of these guys that are going to Little League world series championship. Hopefully, they win it. I want everybody in america to get behind them. Thank you. Host we will leave his, their and move onto his comment there and move on. Chris is 29 years old. Guest interesting discussion caller interesting discussion about race in america. Im 29 years old, black, american. Ive moved all across the country. Lived on the east coast, the west coast, ive been out of the country. And i think part of the problem wewhen we look at history, tend to take what we see at face value and not dig any deeper. History is written by the victors. It is written by those who have power. The last people to establish the dominant force across any type of peoples. If you look back in history, if you peel back the layers, there are artifacts, art, writing of civilizations that we have been told in schools are the makeup of white people, these civilizations were black. We have a whole history that was erased in order to perpetuate the idea that white is dominant and white is more closer to godliness. And i think that has perpetuated itself across the whole world. I believe it is a way to ensure genetic survival. If you look at just the gene pool, there are recessive traits and dominant traits. Light skin, blue eyes, blonde those arehair recessive traits. If all white people got together, say they coalesced around australia, they would still be a small drop in the ocean in terms of the dominant color across the whole world. If they only intermingle with people,er, other white eventually after seven generations host ring this to a conclusion. Bring this to a conclusion this is what you feel youve been talking echo guest youve been taught . Guest no, i believe this is what i have not been taught. Our history has been whitewashed. Host what do you do in lake zurich, illinois . Guest im a teacher. Host integrated school, segregated school . Guest it is an integrated school, but there is a small black and minority citizenry. Host and you are one of the few black teachers . Guest thats correct. Host whats that like for you . Guest i am reminded that i am black everything will day that i interact with the world around me. It is not always explicit. It is not always in your face. Nobody is coming up to me and yelling in my face. Word in mythe n face. Why people have benefited from a White Supremacy system in this country for generations white people have benefited from a whites and pharmacy system in this country for generations. Generational wealth from a White Supremacy system in this country for generations. General racial generational wealth is a problem. Lets get some response from georgetown law professor, author, former prosecutor paul butler. Guest a lot of the colors have made callers have made comments about the importance of member in history, especially africanamerican history. When we look at what went on in ferguson, it is so important to understand that this isnt anything new. When we think of history, we like to tell this celebratory story of racial progress. But chris is absolutely right. In some ways, African Americans arent doing as well now as we were doing in the 1950s and 1960s if you look at criminal justice. Now are disparities much worse than they were in the 50s and 60s. It doesnt mean that africanamericans suddenly turned degenerate or violent. This is about policy, policy implemented by the government, like our 17 loss, these zerotolerance laws our 17 laws, these zerotolerance laws. What he said about black wealth, that is right. Africanamericans have gone backwards in the last 20 years. We were especially hard hit by the housing crisis, which is where most American Families had their wealth. It is really important to understand that history does not tell the story of forward thatess that progress, there do need to be major interventions. Reparations are very controversial. We need to do something and it needs to be about race. Host do you think those economic stats are institutional . Guest they are absolutely institutional. If you look at access to the american dream. For africanamericans, unlike any other group, just because your parents did ok, the idea is that you do even better. With africanamericans, it is 50 50. With every other group, if your parents did well, it is likely you are going to do every better. Africanamericans, maybe you do better, maybe you do worse. It is not about black folks not trying, not about personal responsibility, getting young man to pull up their pants. It is about discrimination. Chris used the term White Supremacy. There is a different value placed on white folks lives than on people of color. Host david is calling from the United Kingdom. Where are you calling from . Tell us about yourself. Then go ahead and talk about Race Relations. Caller myself, i was born in the usa. 1960 the army in well, i started out in new york, my parents moved me to miami, florida, and that was quite a shock for me. Ie first time i got on a bus, was amazed to see all the black people sitting in the back of the bus. And there was lots of seats. And the only seat was in the back of the bus, so i took it. And people looked at me, not the black people, but the white people, a little bit strange, but they let it go. I was a young kid. I was nine years old. I didnt understand what was going on. It was really a shock for me. Moving on, though, what i when i look at things, because ive lived in the u. K. For about 20 years, i finally landed here, and when i see things going on in the United States, i see them from a different viewpoint from most americans. If there was a s, living wage jobs in the United States, i think we would have a lot less problems with Race Relations in the United States. That was the first thing. As for black people, young black people, i think they need more inspirational leaders that are not sporting stars or musicians. There is nothing wrong with aspiring to be a basketball player or a football palyer player or a musician, but most people wont make it. But there are inspiring black people, but they dont get the press. For instance, i was looking at Armstrong Williams and was reminded of somebody that ive met in the United Kingdom called boy ed out as a young he started out as a young boy in jamaica. The plots job to tend of land they had for the vegetables. In newowns a large farm england. He is very popular with the neighbors. Now that he has this gigantic organic farm, he has made it his business to bring people young people from the inner city who have never seen a farm, lots of them in trouble, brought them out to the farm, taught them what it is like to live on a farm. Some of them, he really has changed their lives. Host how would you quickly describe Race Relations in the u. K. . Well, it is not perfect. Let me put it that way. But it is not nearly the kind of issue that it is seems to be in the United States. There are lots of people who immigrated in the 1950s. For a long time, there was lots of resentment towards them. But most people, i wont say everybody, most people have generally moved on. Therethere are lots is lots of resentment to the young people who were not respectful for authority. Host thank you, sir. Eleanor clift, even though david is much older than you, what did you hear from that white man talking about his experience growing up in america and what he had to say . Guest i think he is right that we need to provide more inspirational role models and more paths to success for young, particularly Young Children of color to succeed. I think you place a lot of blame on the Public School system, which could be improved. If we know what needs to be done, it needs more resources, it needs more integrated neighborhoods feeding in. Oftenhington, d. C. , people move here and they wont even consider the Public Schools. They dont even consider them. I think that needs to change. I do think europe has had more difficulty incorporating the immigrant populations, the muslim population. I think than the u. S. Has had, in recent years anyway, not going back 200 years. I think if we can Say Something positive about this country, i dont think there is another country on the planet that is homogenous in its population as this country. We have problems and we have certainly not achieve the full melting pot, but that remains the aspiration. I think in many ways we are far more successful than any other country, particularly in europe. Host Armstrong Williams, any comments to what Eleanor Clift had to say or what david from the u. K. Had to say . Guest obviously, this is a very insightful discussion. I justen to the callers, find it intriguing the way people speak about White Americans, as if they have everything, there are no issues, no challenges, everything is laid out for them, it is just perfect. It is some form of idolatry. Guest for White Americans . Hostguest yes. Guest i dont think that is the case. Guest i know its not. That is the point im making. When the white you believe the white man is the source of all your problems, you must believe he is the source of all your solutions. I dont get up in the morning thinking about the white man or the black man. I think about payroll, programming, real estate. The issue is that we give white people all this power until we begin to believe that they have power over us. Then we have discussions like this. If i have the attitude that the white man was were to give to me, i would not be where i am. If i had added to the black man was against me, i would not be where i am. If i had the attitude the black man was against me, i would not be where i am. Just because a Police Officer sought shot someone down like an animal, does not mean everyone has that thought. We get upset. We say this young black person committed a crime, then all black people must commit crime. We see people as individuals. We are not groups. We have to get away from group thinking. They have to put their pants on just like i do. They need us as much as we need them. We are in this experiment together. We met there are good people in the world. 85 of americans could care less about race and would not discriminate against you. Why would you take away from someone because of the color of their skin or their gender and take away from the profit of your business . You want people who bring creativity. People do not do well because they are black, they do well because they studied. Their parents taught them respect and enthusiasm for education. No one is successful because of their race. Guest thats not what i said. Guest thats how i interpreted it. We all come in this world with our own baggage and circumstances, but you have to believe that you are just as good as anyone else. Without that, youre dead before you start. Host Eleanor Clift, do you want to clarify what you said . Guest i said when i went to atlanta, there were five historically black colleges. Oft, to me, speaks opportunity that is provided. When it is there, people take advantage of it. We dont provide those opportunities everywhere or in enough places. Host professor butler. Guest the college that allows africanamerican young men who want to allow to be rappers and basketball players i know a lot more young black men who want to be barack obama then want to be than want to be jayz. Role models, mentors are important, but they are not really responding to the problem. It does not really matter , theer christopher garner young man in the chokehold in new york, or Michael Brown, who was killed by police in ferguson. That may not be your experience but when you look, africanamericans, Business Owners, they cant get loans like white Business Owners can do. And you are right, armstrong. It was seen that its irrelevant rachelle. Apartment buildings, there is a test case where you send a white prospective renter and an africanamerican prospective renter, they are almost always treated differently. Money is green. You would think there wouldnt be a difference but there is Something Real about racism. You say i dont wawant to prete it doesnt exist. Thats like saying i dont want to think gravity exists. Discrimination is real. Patricia is calling in from california. She is 64 years old. Good morning, patricia. Good morning. Thank you. This is my first time calling. Host host yes. Ca caller i would like to address the gentleman about he was stating, all of these africanamerican names in crime but what i would like to address is what about the mass killings we have seen . The mass killings we have seen has been nonpeople of color. I dont see the outrage when it comes to those little kids out there on east coast who were blown away. That was by a white gentleman. I forget how old he was. I dont hear the outcry. We talked about this young man who buy and sold cigarettes and he should have been blown away. They wasnt blown away. I think it was colorado whobly those people away in the movie theatre. He wasnt blown away. He was able to be arrested and now he is going to court. I dont understand why when it comes to black children, they are blown away. I want to let you know, i am 64 years old. He was born and raised in memphis, tennessee, my father was one of the black american farmers. I have moved from there to chicago, to california and to nevada. The first time i ever had a police record, i had two children, both of our children graduated from university. I put my kids through school. They dont have the issues in Corporate America i had. Okay . I had issues because i was black, White America. The first time i had to deal with White America was when i was in Corporate America. I did have issues but i made sure my kids i know its not a black world and i sent my kids to university but what i would like to say about all of that is that i have a home in nevada, a gated community, the minimum house is over 500,000. On the day of barack obama was being elected in 2008, i was campaigning for him in my community because it was gated. Nobody could get in there. I was walking along, not going to every home. They had a list of all of the voters who had decided who they were going to vote. But barack obama, i had a white gentleman who came over to me and asked what do you call yourself doing . I said, excuse me . I said this is none of your business what i am doing. And, you know, i told him, you are harassing me. You need to leave me alone. The next thing i know, the Homeowners Association president approached me, asked me my name. I asked him his name. He refused to give me his name. The Police Officer came up on me. I had to give him my name, my Social Security number. I had to give up everything because i didnt have my id on me because i was walking. Now, there is nonwrong. I dont have a police record. I have a degree. My children have degrees. Whathaveyou. The United States, i was here, i also have a home in california. When we moved in to the home, the neighbors put a dead rat on our porch. A dead rat on the porch. This is what i want to tell and i will get off. What we need to do in the community, i dont care what color you are, we have had problems with the police here my husband and i. We have problems with the police here, also. But you know what i do . I write a letter to the chief of police, and i copy the mayor and i copy everybody i can and, also, the justice department. Anybody else, you go to your job and you get a complaint, you are going to be i heard about this thing in ferguson, what i couldnt understand is they said this officer that they had. I said wait a minute how can that be when those people told me, this happened to me . Nobody is writing letters and it works. Believe me. It works every time. Host host patricia, thank you very much. You were shaking your head. Guest so many African Americans have stories like that. And, you know, like i said at the beginning about whats going on ferguson, you get tired of it. You know, you really do want things to change. You want we want to hope and we want change. Thats one reason, though. I think thats happening in ferguson now with these young folks coming in with new ideas, i think thats inspiring. So, i am hoping this is a moment where we will see that change. I know there is going to be this freedom ride for ferguson next weekend, Labor Day Weekend when young folks of all different backgrounds, different colors, different sexual orientations are all coming together to create change. Go ahead. I think its important that she said. I think she said a lot. She taught her children differently about how to deal with the world but she also said that she did not take the disrespect. She committed herself to writing letters, and the issue in that community, this is, again, an issue here about Law Enforcement. No community where she was reported for expressing and exercising her rights, the support and whomever she wanted to, the police fell down on their job. They should have never asked her because she committed no crime. She did nothing wrong. That was a failure of Law Enforcement. Thats the issue here the community, yes, you can have ignorance, racism but in Law Enforcement, when they reample their racism and ignorance, thats where america fails in its Justice System. Paul butler, do you see a difference with your students who are in their 20s . Guest when it comes to race and think being race . I would like to think so. I have written about hiphop. When we look at pop culture and the influence it has on all of our young people, you know, we do have africanamerican men and women, beyonce, jayz, and hiphot, repeat for criminal justice. My wife, latino Asian American students and africanamerican students who listen to hiphop, they know that the police have this different relationship with africanamerican men. They know that when you have more young black men in prison than in college that that impacts families, that that impacts communities. But i do think that they are month openminded about race. And book t. V. Sat down with professor paul butler to talk about his book lets get free a hiphop theory of justice if you would like to see that in its entirety go to booktv. Org. In the upper left hand corner, type in his name. You will be able to watch that online. Wendell is calling from atlanta, 54 years old. Good morning, wendell. You are on the washington journal caller good morning. How is everybody today . Host good. Caller i was listening to dr. Butler. Dr. Butler, i dont think you have a complete grip on whats going on. A couple of years ago, the hispanics had a thinking on Cinco De Mayo where they were not going to come to work. I went to get some black kids to come to work and the things i was told well, i dont want nobody telling me what to do and they said how much does this job pay . And i said 15 an hour. He told his mother he was going to work a job. The a lot of kids feel they are going to become ballplayers like you say or become hiphop artists. So many kids locked up in jail. When is the black kids going to stop selling drugs and stop robbing the adults, the again men, when are we going to start mentoring these kids so they can do better . Host tell us about yourself. You are 54 years old living in atlanta. Caller i am living in atlanta from new york city. I have been eat up can cops and i work with cops right now i had to fight guys every day in the barracks who wanted to go to these meetings or whatever and i said anybody you are going to leave. These soldiers working together, marines working together. My thing is this. I dont want to hear all of this stuff, all of this whoa is me is like tearing me up. Weve got to do something. I have been out of work. If i was laid off i created my own job. I made a job. There are people who come to the United States who i mmigrate to this country with nothing. Theefr got new houses and cars because they have something called a work ethic. Host wendell, thank you. Paul butler, he addressed you specifically guest im sorry that wendell has had all of these, it sounds like really horrible experiences with racism. He says hes been eat up by white cops, he got stabbed by one of his fellow soldiers in the military and all of these horrible experiences with white folks has somehow brought him to a critique of africanamerican young folks. So i dont quite get that that young people that i know want to work african unemployment has remained twice what unemployment is. Thats not about black folks not wanting to work. Thats where people wouldnt higher us because of discrimination. Its true for too many people. What about drugs . Why dont they stop selling drugs . A great example. If you got not far from here to the National Institute of health and ask do blacks use drugs or sell drugs more than anybody else in this country . They say, no. Africanamericans, about 13 of folks who are involved in drugs. But if you go really two blocks from here to the department of justice, two blocks up for drug, 16 of black. 13 of people who do the crime. 60 percent who do the time. So again, people get tired of talking about race, talking about discrimination but its as real as gravity and unless we deal with that as we are doing in the show today, we are not going to make progress. Has this officer in and and you a former prosecutor, has this officer been convicted already. Host Darren Wilson . Guest as an important question is he even going to be charged . Lots of reasons could be concern about whether this prosecutor here has a conflict of interest, if he can be fair. Hes got five folks in his family who do work or have worked for the Police Department. St. Louis has never convicted a Police Officer of manslaughter or murder and this guy has gone out of his way to praise the police. I dont think anyone who thinks the way they were doing crowd control and protest control in ferguson was a shining moment in Law Enforcement but he says he doesnt even think the should be put on the indicates. There is real reason to be concerned about whether he can do a full and fair investigation. If you are the prosecution its hard to conflict Police Officers and people understand theyve got the toughest jobs in the world. There are a lot of years. It doesnt mean its impossible. It just means its difficult. Governor clift, look at the politics of this. There is an article in the st. Louis post, the fact that a black man was appointed to lead this. Whites are contributing to a 300,000 dollar fund for Darren Wilson. There are some, you know, racial and political divides there. I think Governor Nixon made a good decision. I think it was his decision that put captain johnson in charge of the police work. That was a very good decision and instantly brought calm. If they hadnt released that Surveillance Video which stirred up the community which seemed to come out of nowhere, i think we might have seen more calm prevail. I think, you know, Governor Nixon was being talked about as a possible running mate for Hillary Clinton if she runs for president. He was seen as a moderate democrat who won in a conservative red state, but i think what came through here is that he does not or did not seem to have the feel for the Africanamerican Community that a southern democratic governor would have because blacks are such an important part of the democratic coalition. He seemed rather tone deaf. He took too long to visit the community and, you know, said some things that got people upset. So i dont think he gets any awards for how he handled things. And in terms of, you know, police rallying to raise money for the Police Officer, you know, i dont think we know the race of everyone who is contributed money but we can suspect that there are probably white people who think police have a tough job and he is getting railroaded. And depending upon where you sit, you can, you know, look at this situation and it may be come to that conclusion. So, i think its possible he will be indicted. The color the prosecutor is not presenting the case. He has two prosecutors. I believe one is an africanamerican woman. The other is a 27year veteran that are apparently respected people. Generally, grand juries go where they are led. I think it i think its probably 50 50 whether there will be an indictment. If he is not indicted he still has the federal government looking perhaps to make a civil rights case against him. And if he is exonerated, i still think he feeds to suffer some punishment. And i leave that up to the powers that be there, but, you know, he may the Legal Definition set by the Supreme Court, i believe, in 1990 has to be sort of a reasonable expectation that he was facing a dangerous situation. So, i am sure they will replay all of the circumstances and he could he could legally be the i dont want to say exonerated because thats too grand a word. He may legally get off, but i still think there needs to be some punishment and i think this Police Officers life is probably very much compromised at this point in terms of his prospects. Armstrong . You asked the weather whether he has already been convicted. Of course, he has been convicted by a certain element of that jurisdiction, and by the media. And the only thing we can do is base our perception on justice and injustice and based upon what we hear, what we see and what we read. There are so many other things that you have to consider in the legal process. But, you know, i want to what i am going to say is directly to professor butler because its quite bothersome to me actually maybe i am misinterpreting what you are saying but i know i am not. Believing today the reason why, lets just say africanamericans whom you seem to care most about, the reason why they dont have jobs, they dont have opportunity, they cannot make progress, is because of racism if anybody watches this broadcast believes the only reason you are not progressing is because of racism, thats a sad state. Yes, racism exists. Yes, police are out of control. But 80 of why people dont progress in this country, they dont attain success and continue is because of them the family. Education still important. Discipline is important. Making good choices in this country is important. Encouraging twoparent households, households discipline, having babies out of wedlock is something you need to consider unless you know you can afford, the child and the responsibilities that come along with it. Its troubling to me to think that some young kids who happens to be black watching this show today believes, well, i am not where i am supposed to be because of racism and Law Enforcement. Thats not true. I wish i had time to do a letson about africanamerican history or economics but what i have time to note is while i think you are wrong, i think a lot of people share your view, so when president obama was asked, he mentioned my brothers Keepers Program about your personal responsibility narrative that if black and latino men pull up their pants, it will be all right. My brothers keepers leaves out half the race. Women and girls get left out. They have the same kind of concerns and problems that africanamerican men have. If you look at the ways black people havent had capital to start our own businesses, if we maybe could higher our own, we wouldnt have to be so concerned from discrimination. Its difficult to get money to start businesses. We dont have the same access that other groups have. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding. Could it be financial diversity . Could it be that you dont have the education . That you never taught the skills of what hard work and discipline is could it be something other than racism and discrimination . Do you think the fact that black folks have inferior skills is unrelated to racism . What you do when you are in that school. You make the most of the education and environment like many of us have done through our lives. This is nothing new. Its not unique. Children are most making most of what they have. So, you know, when we look at black history, its a wonder they are doing as well as they are. I think thats a testament. No wonder people do well when they make sacrifices and have discipline. I am saying its easy to fail. It is easy to fail. Michael brown chose to go to college. That did not stop the Police Officer. That should not have happened. What happened it was a situation. How many times do you say that . That will continue to happen. The pattern is an unfortunate situation. Law enforcement of Law Enforcement. We need to have Law Enforcement. Host gentlemen, we will leave that conversation. Eleanor clift, do you want to put a period on that . I i think racism exists, but, you know, young people have to deal with life as it is, and there are paths to succeed regardless of racism. Its harder and we should make it easier, but i think in a way they are both right. Host 3 years old, hamilton, ohio down by cincinnati, sarah, please tell us a little bit about yourself and go ahead and make your comment on race in america. Caller i wanted to thank everyone and all of your guests. I appreciate their opinions, and they really are all correct in what they are stating. I am 33 years old. I was t i was the only person of any color, biracial throughout my childhood in school years. When i became 19 years old, i actually met my first black person. I did not realize race was such a big deal until i moved from the country to the city. Where i grew up, and like i said, a predominantly white area, i did not feel racism. No white person ever looked at me and said, you cant play softball because you are black. You cant go to college because you are a black race simply a strong point but the Civil Rights Movement and our fathers and grandfathers and mothers and grandmothers, they fought to change that silent. This is about police brew tanty. I was married at 30. Would heed our first child at 31. Now i look at my baby and i think, you know, i have to teach her about Race Relations because i dont want him shot because he had an attitude. For a Police Officer to situate they do not deal with attitude is saying to a dentist, you know, i dont like teeth. You are in the wrong profession. I have to really completely agree with mr. Williams. If you work hard, you can obtain your goals. You cannot quit. There are going to be a lot of people who spit in your face. You might have to fieel the cra but thats no matter where you are at. You have to make the best of the situation and keep trying even with a criminal record. My husband has a criminal record, but he works 55 hours a week and provides for his family. I told him not too long ago, you have changed the lives of so many you dont even know. You broke a generalal divide. What our fathers couldnt do and didnt want to have a traditional household, you changed for our children. Our children know what a mother and father truly is, how to act, how to go to work. And i will state this other thing, too growing up in a completely white area, my mother taught me, if you walk with somebody elses land, you can get shot. If you go in somebody elses home unannounced, ug you can be shot. If you backtac to the police, they will shoot you. This is this is not a color issue. The colored is sad because you have to believe you can be better. You have to believe you can be better. We know that we know that racism is a reality but you have to believe it can be better. You have to show action. Silent protests and the freedom ride again is where its at. Host sarah, if you were living in ferguson or the st. Louis area, would you would you attend some of the protests that have been happening out there . Caller honestly, i would, but i would go back to write to go my governor. You go through the proper command, chain of command. I couldnt take my child out there because i would be sfrooed some of the youtube things, my fami familys life would be in jeopardy. But in act the waactuality. They called looters protesters. Those are two different definitions. The protestsors that are out there, like i said, speaking and holding their hands up, it breaks my heart, but if it comes down to the behavior, both the officer and the young gentleman, the behavior wasnt correct on both sides. Its sad it ended up the way it did. We have to teach our youth they are the responsibility of authority, every Police Officer, they are not all bad, they are not all horrible and we have to respect authority. We need to give psychological exams to these officers, there needs to be cameras and there needs to be a check and balance. Host thank you very much. A lot on the table. Quickly around the table. Armstrong williams, she agreed with what some of what you had to say. I respect professor butler and i respect ms. Clift. We have perspectives in this conversation and there is not one size that fits all. These kids are in trouble. These kids are not progressing. I mean since 1966, with the passage of the civil rights legislation, 5 out of 20 black families were in poverty. Today, in 2014, its 15 out of 20. There is something wrong. Maybe its the government. Maybe its the programs that it is designed that are not working. Maybe we need to go back and say look, the government can give you a hand up and can help you along the way but you should never allow the government to become your destiny. Obviously there is something wrong. Obviously if you look at families whether its jewish or irish at the turn of the last century in a similar plight as american blacks are today, obviously, the family unit plays a role in this. It plays a role. There are so many things that particular play a roll but the bottom line is, i think, she is absolutely right. Youve got to teach your children. I dont care how many Police Officers there are, to respect authority and take a sub might have been positioning because there are lives at stake. She does address Law Enforcement at the end of the call. She said some jurisdictions are moving towards cameras and putting cameras on policemen. And i think, you know, thats probably the direction that we are going. I want to mention there is a group called strategies for youth based in cambridge, massachusetts, who work with Police Officers on how to deal with teenagers and kids on how to deal with police. Yes, its authority. You shouldnt be giving them giv guff, but to teach kids that its okay to be submissive full but still have your self respect. Eleanor clift, congress is coming back in a couple of weeks. What do you see politically happening in the short session that they have left . I think the chair of the judiciary, congressman goodwillat russia has been resistant to any kind of hearings. They have very little time. I think with the federal investigation going on, i think they are probably going to duck this. My guess. Paul butler . I want to push back against this notion that ifnly black people worked harder, if only they had dads in the home, if only they werent so dependent on their government, then it would be all good some of the hardest working women, people i know, are africanamerican women. Armstrong. I have heard you talk about the women in your family and how much respect that you have for them. In 2014, the average net worth of a black woman is 100. The average net worth of a latina is 110. Thats not about those women. Its about, again, the structures that dont allow them the same access as white men whose net worth is many thousand times greater. Does that mean that white men are working a thousand times harder than latinos and africanamerican women but eleanor, i do agree with you that this moment cant just be about conviction of a Police Officer. If there is going to be meaningful change, its got to be broader. Folks are focusing on the body cameras, on the Police Officers. Thats real important. Peter, in the earlier segment you mentioned that we dont know how many Police Officers kill africanamerican men, anybody, because those statistics are not kept. This false equation. If you compare the number of black men who guilt killed by police and other black men. We dont know. Those numbers arent kept . In ferguson, it was striking how little Political Engagement there has been from the black community. Its as though they kind of gave up. I think now you do see some renewed interest and they are understanding maybe they can get elected and they are going to push for more representation on the police force. Yes. And a piece, i think, in this mornings post or times about st. Louis not having any kind of oversight for police matters, which many other jurisdictions have. And they are going to push for that. So these kind of structures are important. The system is stacked against africanamericans. They never get the benefit of the doubt, and now, i think we are at least talking about putting more counter structures in place. Particularly in places like ferguson, which, lets face it, most of us have never heard of until this happened. Host paul butler, i mentioned before you came out here that one of your titles is that you have been arrested. I have. Host very quickly, what happened . I was a prosecutor, the highest profile case in the department of justice against a u. S. Senator. During that time, i got arrested for a crime that i didnt commit. Basically, there was a dispute about a parking space. It was funny because neither i nor the woman who i was in the dispute with owned a car. I was trying to be an entrepreneur like you like us to be. Yes have a car at a parking space but i rented. This woman believed that it was hers, she had the right to rent it. So she started harassing the person who i was renting it to, didnt care when i showed her that lease and eventually she called the police and told them that i had run up to her and pushed her. That was her story. It turned out that she was a snitch. She worked with the cops. The cops came. They saw me. At that time, i was a young black man and they took me off to jail. So, you know, it was in one sense extraordinary. In another sense, you know, my name is legion. As i say in the book, that incident made a man out of me. It made a black man out of me because so many black men have stories like that. But things worked out fine for me. Things worked out fine because i could afford the best lawyer in a city. The jury came back with a verdict in less than 5 minutes. Things worked out well for me because, you know, i could look like the kind of black man that a jury didnt want to send for prison. Things worked out fine for me because i had gone to yale and harvard. The other thing, i was innocent. Didnt at the end of the day seem like the most important reason why things worked out fine for me. If you think about an experience that helps you understand, you know, how most young black men and women are who dont have the kind of opportunities that i had to go to the Great Schools that i went to, you know, it really does change the way that you think about them. It makes you less about pointing your finger at them and lecturing them about personal responsibility and really wanting the Great American dream that i have had the opportunity to experience to be open to all. Its an unfortunate story but you would have to believe the woman only pressed those charges and called the cops because they were black, not because of the argument over the parking space. I think the police were more likely to arrest me. The woman, she was just as much a part of it. It certainly came out at the trial that she had mental issues. Not racial issues . Mental . She had issues. Host kevin calling in from willsburg, west virginia, 53 years old. Kevin, very quickly, allegations about yourself and go ahead and make your comment on race in america. Good morning. I am a selfemployed entrepreneur. Thats basically what i have done my whole life. I would just like to quickly tump. I feel that there is reverse discrimination going on. And, you know, it shouldnt be about whether you are black american, White American or americans. This is a country where if you work hard and believe in yourself, you can 6 succeed. No matter where you came from. I have lost businesses and had successful businesses. Its not about the color of my skin. Its about attitude and willingness to dig down deep and work hard. You know, i think a big problem with blacks and i am not prejudice is, you know, they they play the race card, and it hurts them. Employers are afraid to hire them because if there is an issue at work, they will say, well, its because i am black, i am being picked on. Maybe its because you are not doing your job. One of the callers made a comment about race. She basically got crucified in the media. You listen to the black comedians and every other word is the n word. And its okay, and i dont think its okay. I dont think they should do that because, you know, white people hear them saying that and think that its okay. Its not. Its wrong. And i host kevin, weve got a lot on the table there. Armstrong williams, what did you hear from that gentleman . There is definitely a racial double standard in this country. There is no question. For me, as a conservative, some of the things that professor butler can say that i certainly cannot say. I will say it but the bar is different. Yes. I mean even the use of the n word. Even if someone who is a minority said what paula butler, she would never have lost her business if they were black. I dont like what he said in terms of black people. You know, its just, you know, they are just this mindset there is this double standard that is perpetrated by the media to make us think that we are different and suffering and yeah action it is true if the n word, the bad word, nobody should be allowed to say it. I dont care what context you said it. Its an ugly, awful word and what it could jurs up is the most loatheful part of our history. Nobody should be able to use it. Host what did you hear from kevin . I thought of Vice President cheney and his insistens that everything he had done in his life, he did on his own and then you go back and you look and you see, you know, various government assistance that his parents got, scholarships he was able to take advantage of, you know, a whole, you know, public system in this country. I mean its wonderful to talk about individualism, but we are all reliant on what government does for us and it same to me government does more for some people than it does for others. Armstrong williams, you mentioned that you are a conservative. I am going to read a tweet here this is from tiki. And you can take this. I think you will let me just read it i am an Armstrong House product is what she tweets in. I think she is going with sometimes we hear that conservatives, blacks are house slaves. People are shaped by their experiences. Obviously she doesnt know me. She listens to what i say, and she makes a judgment. Thats the beauty of free speech in america. You have a right to express yourself, and i will defend that. I dont have to worry about what she is implying. I know who i am. Thats all that matters is. Host Eleanor Clift, conservative africanamerican, is that correct . Well, i think, you know, the history of this country has made them has made democrats out of africanamericans. I mentioned earlier that i lived in atlanta. When i moved to atlanta from new york, i was surprised to find black republicans, and the daily world, which was the local black newspaper, was republicanowned. And i realized that that went back to the days of lincoln and politics and how the federal government reacted changed the voting patterns of africanamericans. I dont think anything is sealed in perpetuity forever. I think republicans could attract more africanamerican votes. You see rand paul out there as being pretty aggressive about it. I still think its hes got a tough road because i dont think he offers giovanvery many polic that would that appeal to blacks. You see black conservatives coming around to the idea that our prisons are really stacked against africanamericans and looking at reducing sentences and that sort of thing. Politics is very much involved here. It goes to the actions of the policies of the federal government. Here, i think, paul is very correct that the policies of administrations going back for a long time have played a role in the kind of Structural Racism that still exists. Host we have callers on this program in the washington journal say, i cant understand why a black person would be a conservative. S . I look at white women and say the same thing. I mean, you know, i have my beliefs and its hard to understand how other people dont feel the same way. But in this country, over and over, different people look at the same set of facts and come to different conclusions. Thats whats going on. Host what do you think of that tweet . I think thats pretty offensive. Host paul butler . I have a lot of disagreements with my friend, armstrong but i dont question his blackness or his commitment to africanamericans or Racial Justice. I think he is totally wrong, but i think he is speaking in good faith. But what i was concerned about the caller is, he has a view that i think is shared by conservative folks on the Supreme Court, that the main discrimination problem now is discrimination against white folks so if you look at where the court is on Voting Rights and affirmative actiontion and school desegregation, i think thats pretty much what chief Justice John Roberts and scalia and Clarence Thomas and thats flatout wrong. Host you are a friend of Clarence Thomas . Yes. He is my meantor. I worked for him. He is 1 of the reasons i evolved into the person i am today. I dont think of myself in a racial way. I am a conservative. I believe in traditional values like my parents. My values and beliefs comes from the scripture of the bible. Thats my belief system. This is what i try to do in my struggles and striving every day. I was clearly in the image of god. So that is the image of how you i see myself, trying to be a godly person, not black, white, or any other things. I see myself because i was deflated gods image, ive got to be good. There is nothing i cannot do because to me, that is my model in myt in life, not human being who is flawed. My striving is to try to be, an imperfect being and paul is right and these are good people. We just have different perspective. And i know how hard he fights for these injustices and we need it. But i fight in a different way th but our goals are the same. We take different tactics to get there. Host samuel, gulfport, mississippi, 40 years old. Quickly about yourself, samuel. Go ahead and make your comment. Caller first of all, i am a truck driver now. I go all over theplace. I live in different xhub communities. I was raised here at 7 years old, moved out west to california. No place other than oakland, california. Aim white male. But i am human is where its at. I think everything should pull that card and, you know, humans, human beings, right, wrong, whatever, weve got to do what we have to do to put this police issue, this ferguson issue. Okay . It was my opinion on this, the cameras on the cops. They ondont only need to be on the cops on the streets. They need to be on the cops in the prisons and the jails and Everything Else because that is what is my opinion, again, is running the gangs and, you know, the black community is more here, i think they are bleeding grounds, the project housings, i think is breeding grounds for lost kids with no direction in life. Not only white, black, hispanic, everywhere and everywhere in the United States, people need to get a direction. Host you identified yourself as a white male born in mississippi. Do you think your attitude toward race is different than your parents . Caller of course. Host different than your kids caller i had my firstborn a year ago. His will definitely be different. You know, my mom, yes. You know, my mom was, you know, a straight bigot. I couldnt bring i couldnt bring any black friends, you know, home to eat at the table, you know, but i was only 7 or 8 years old. Through that time, while we were living here. California was a different story. You know, i had more black friends now and i always had more black friends than i had white friends or any other friends because the way the way i relate is, you know, related to the black man, you know, was the struggles in the streets with the police. If i had if i was walking down the street with a black guy and i was, you know, i was dressed hip to the code, i was treated just like him with, you know, through the police. They wouldnt just search him down. We were looking like we were up to no good. Host thank you. I want to respond but he used the term the black community and tthe projects. When you hear those terms, are those code words in any way to you . Well, i think that when folks used words like ghetto or projects, those are code words for africanamericans so, you know, lopez has a book about politics where he talks about these folds that especially politicians use, because now, know one is going to say, i dont want to hire you because you are black about they will make racial appeals. Samuel, you said you are a veteran. Thank you for your service. I think that the point about segregation is important because we know that africanamericans 50 years after brown versus board of education still live in an extraordinarily segregated environment. Its not about access to white people, per se, but its about having access to the goodies that come with white folks like better schools, having Better Services from all government sources including the police so so segregation is really the focus of a lot of the efforts to improve Racial Justice because thats the source, segregated homes and neighborhoods are the source of a lot of the problem. Host juanita, 67 years old, savannah, georgia caller thank you. I want to tell paul that i really thank him for what he is saying. I live in a household with my mother who is 98 years old. She has always told us her biggest fear in life was raising her black son. She said, if i am going to get through to turn down the one who is still struggling to get up. My brother at the age of 17, his life was taken from him, accused of armed robbery. They fill these Young Childrens minds while they are young. They get people who have done fight to sit up there with their shirt and neck ties on to help put down the one who is scuffling. When you come out of a household with no food to eat and get up to go to school in the morning, its nothing but terror. The black man has been put down in this country and over the world during his life. You are talking about the murder of this young man. There is murder going on every day when you see young men been picked up in the penitentiary. Thats murder. Thats murder. You see the mother is left with nothing. The black man has gone back. Lets go back to 1926 or 27, the black wall street. Was emmett allowed to get killed and his mother died in the 90s . There was hanging and lynchings. They over power black people doing the slavery because my mother said, out of every slave house, there was 50 slaves to 200 whites. And if you did something wrong, they would walk to your house and beat you completely down. We didnt flee from this country. We were broken down in all kind of ways. To have a black man come and teach us, we have only been taught what they teach us in school, belief in crist first columbus. You have to believe in the bible because this is where its at. We have been let down by our black people who fought and put in partitioned slavery. They get up and forget about the bottom rail. What you talk about now . We talking about race or murder . We could talk about race. Race will last us until the time we are dead and gone. I saw my mother with welts on her back. My mother, everything they created in statesburg, georgia, has been taken from them. They didnt ever have a whi beautiful lawn. Black women chair hair. I said if a black man sleep with you all, yall are the most powerful women in the world. I was in california irvine, a white man told me his biggest fear was the black mans penis. You have that happen this summer in mississippi when they stopped a white woman. How big was the black mans penis . Look how lowgrade they put us . When you put a person in a hog pen, what more you expect out of it you see a politician, plaque politicians come around when its time for them to get elected. We been stepped on by people sitting there with their collars on who made it off of our backs. I marched in the 60s. I scuffle. I am a single parent. I am a chef. I got fired for cooking too m h brussel sprouts. How is that . Host juanita, thank you for calling in. Lets just get a reaction to some of the things she had to say. Armstrong williams . Listen, my heart goes out to her. Obviously she is not only filled with pain of the past but also the present. And obviously, that stirs up that mindset and hopefully justice will become blind and innocent men and women and whomever will not be brutalized like animals. We have not mentioned and i want to say everything is brutalized by the police. Not just black people. A lot of people lapping to the show who may not look like the people on this panel will tell you the police is cruel. They have beaten pregnant white women. I am sure if that woman had been black, they would have said it was racism. The issue today is no other issue coming across is Law Enforcement, their training more so than the issue of race than anything else. 67yearold southern black woman told us her story, 98yearold mother. You are from south carolina. Have you heard that story before . In fairness. Host back to south carolina. Your parents. Did you ever hear of lynchings when you were growing up . No. Not of lynch, but i have heard about the cruelty of people but never about lynching. Host Eleanor Clift . The long and mostly terrible history of race in this country is very fresh in most if not all africanAmerican Families. When you think that the attorney general, his white sister, vivian malone, was one of the students that integrated the university of alabama in the 1960s, so this is a fresh wound and you could say that b ferguson happened, its like pulling the bandaid off and we examine the wound all over again. So the way this woman spoke, it was almost like poetry. It was the way she we have her various elements of her story together. Its quite heartwrenching and i think that white folks in this country have to understand, you know, the pain on the other side, which is why now we have this reaction in ferguson and i think that the symbol of the hands up do not shoot, that symbol will live on. Host paul butler . It was heartwrenching and i want to think her for calling and telling folks her experiences because, you know, a lot of times when africanamericans talk about race, people say we are playing the race card. The fact is its not easy to hear these stories or to tell these stories and so when people do tell them, it really is a vote of confidence from the American People to hope that there really can be change if folks just understand. The other thing that i thought was interesting was the way she focused on black men, which a lot of africanamerican women do. God bless them. She also said her mother had welts on her back. So, its not only black men or men of color who experienced discrimination. Its the whole community. Again, black women just make or just they make less money than black men. They are more likely to live below the poverty line. A lot of programs only focus on black men. Its not Racial Justice if you leave half of the race out. Host her mother was born in 1960, been through quite a bit in Race Relationships in this country. Eleanor clift, is it helpful that al sharpton went out to ferguson and Jesse Jackson went out to ferguson . I think here again, i think the people in ferguson welcomed sharpton initially and i think they recognized he was the one who brought the Trayvon Martin case to national attention. I think some folks remember his checkered history going way back when and wonder if he is the best, you know, civil rights leader, but he happens to have he has a platform. He was there. And i think the people in ferguson appreciate the attention. What bothers them the most is they feel they havent been heard. They will welcome, you know, any leader who will listen to them and bring their story fonational attention. Host susan, 50 years old, in general. Tell us quickly about yourself. Caller hi. I am a single parent and raise my children 17 years by myself. I have been discriminated by the system. When i went and was had a white Police Officer, had to experience brutality of Domestic Violence for years. And got no help from the police community. So, i can understand the trauma. First of all, i think you have to understand that we white policemen, 50 of them in the state of new jersey cannot take their guns home because of the amount of Domestic Violence going on their households. So, if you really think they are going to be desensitized and go out and do their jobs, we are kidding ourselves. There was so much Domestic Violence in the homes offlers Police Officers. Host i apologize i am going to rush you a little bit. Paul butler, the lead story this morning in the new york times, a lot of papers, the intalz administration has called for a review of the militarization of Police Departments. Is there going to be changes . Yes. Thats an important first step. You know, the system now is reversed. The military surplus weapons can go to local Police Departments. They just have to apply and show some kind of loose need but where it gets weird is then when they get these tanks and ak47s, they have to use them within a year or the government threatens to take them back. So, you know, its like who was it chertoff said if you put a gun on the stage, it has to go off. Thats what happens here we need common sense reforms. Its gratifying to know that the Police Department is listening to especially africanamericans who have led the call for more responsible police practices. I agree with that. I mean the images that were presented initially out of ferguson, you thought you were witness something going on iraq or syria. We dont think we treat our citizens that way. But it turns out that we do. Maybe some jurisdictions, you know, big cities need some of this armament, but ferg season it seems very much over the top and they seem like they are not at all trained to use it. Tazer. A tazer would have been much more effective in dealing with Michael Brown but they say tazers arent 100 effective. Maybe they ought to make them more effective plus the fact there was a second Police Officer in the car with them, with wilson, i believe. Could be the baku with the gun. I think there is going to be some definitely review of the procedures they used in ferguson and whether those are the ones they were trained. Also, a story came out that t theple was with another Police Department which was so ineffective and so apparently arrive with racism that they fired everybody in the department and hired a new. Some of the people, you could apply for the job, but this particular officer instead got a job in ferguson. You know, that doesnt necessarily say that he was part of the problem there. But we are beginning to learn a little bit more about him and, the training that he might have gotten. Host Armstrong Williams . It would be an incredible high bar to ever justify using that military equipment anywhere against american citizens. For children to understand, azle nor mentioned what that represents when you look to iraq and afghanistan to places like syria, thats war. We are not we dont have these are not war zones here we may have out of control intiingsz they are not war zones. They have recalled all of this equipment because they are shipping it to iraq because the equipment is needed to carry out the new mission. To me, there is never a reason. When i watch that on t. V. , i was confused as to what i was watching. I couldnt believe it. For flooerz, they are like kids, excited to use this equipment. They got an opportunity to use it. So here we go. And they walk around but they dont understand how that further insights chaos in those communities. This seems to be an issue that liberals conservatives are both kind of jelling on. Crist justice reform, its not that unusual for there to be this bipartisan support. So, if you think of the number of people who we are locking up in the state, we lock up more people than any other country in the world, lots of conservatives understood thats a problem because its inefficient government spending. We are not getting the bang for the buck, lots of faithbased conservatives have come on board because its about redeltion and giving folks a second chance. We see libertarians like senator paul who are appalled by the way that we are treating american citizens like they are the enemy. It is an issue where there is a huge there is a huge consensus there. We need more effective criminal justice. Host carol, 52 years old, hinesburou gh, illinois. Caller hi. I live in hinesborou gh, south of the champagneurban a lot na my situation, my father, while he was world war ii and he was in the korean war, he was a bigot. Not only towards africanamericans but also towards he he had a name for every kind of race if you understand what i mean. He was in the navy for 20 years and i think some of that is generational. Th i think a lot of the race relation problems are fearbased. I grew up on the east coast. Having a father who was a bigot was very disturbing to me growing up. I was embarrassed. I worked at the va for 22 years and working at the va, i met so many people of dye verse backgrounds, staff, but patients as well. And various backgrounds. I had that experience. I am a good person. I love to learn about different people and is ask them personally about what that their cultural believes. What kind of things sdmrfrp carol, do you think americas Race Relations have changed in any way . Caller yes. They have changed. I have hopes for the future because i dont know whether in my lifetime. I find it to be more geographical as to where i am living now and, there are no people of color in this little town i live in. The next town over, maybe very few. I find that people who have very limited experience with people of dye ver of of diverse backgrounds are fearful. Their minds are not open. They are not open to expanding their experience with other people. Host thank you, maam. Eleanor clift, she referenced you early on . She said her father was a bigot. My father was an immigrant. Actually, i dont really any bias against africanamericans. It was mostly against other ethnicities and kind of this need to feel like you were on the top. I think he came from a tiny island that was originally danish and became german. And i remember a lot of sunday dinners and my punch line always was, jesus christ was a jew. I thought, you know that was that just ended the debate as far as i was concerned. So, i think i probably learned some of my arguing skills at the sunday dinner table. So, i think my father for i thank my father for that. He had a lot of other qualities. He is long since gone. He came here as a teenager and made his way working in delcal cat he delicatessen. I dont remember him ever taking a vacation. Work ethic, he had thathat. Did you ever hear your parents Say Something about white people . Of course. Thats what we can say. Thats not what you can say. Of course. Of course with the interracial dating, yeah, but its the tone in which this is spoken and how its conveyed to children who are so impressionable and want to emulate their parents. My parents were careful in how they explained these things. My father said, which is interesting, boy, my brothers and sisters, i always wanted to own my own farm, i want you to have a different experience, working for your father because it will better prepare you for life. He said he worked hard to buy that land in 1944 to make sure that never happened. Host paul butler, personal experience with your parents . My parents, but other members of my family were, i think, rightly very suspicious of white people. So the message was that i shouldnt trust them because, you know, no matter basically they wouldnt have my best interests at heart even in a Northern City like chicago where i grew up. But the important thing is that that kind of behavior, those kind of racist attitudes are learned and they can be unlearned. And now, we are coming up with ways to train Police Officers to know about what we call implicit bias and to unlearn that. Now, officers are more likely to shoot at an unarmed blackman than they are at an armed white man. Its about i am learning racism not only, you know, for a kum ba ya moment but for cops safety. Host lets hear from arthur. We lost all of our calls there sorry about that, guys. Thats the ends of our show. Okay. Host a bad segway there at the end. I apologize. I thought we would have one more caller. Thank you. I am chad williams. Eleanor clift, paul butler. We appreciate you all being on, very much in this conversation on race. Well, tomorrow, we are going to continue our discussion of race issues. We are going to look at the Civil Rights Division of the department of justice with bill yoemans, a former assistant attorney general for civil rights we will begin a series on the modern Political Campaign movement. Thanks for being with us. Joining us from indianapolis, mike pence. We have a National Politics reporter and read epstein, the National Political reporter with the wall street journal. Thank you for being here. You have been mentioned as a possible two thousand 16 president ial contender. Give me an assessment of how you see the emerging republican field. The Republican Party has a very deep bench