Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20130724

On the floor, the pentagons budget bill is expected with an amendment on the nsa, syria, and egypt. One an amendment could curtail the nsas ability to collect telephone and other data. We want to get your reaction to that provision. Host remember, you can send us a tweet or post your comments on facebook host let me begin with the New York Times story. This piece host we want to get your take on this. What do you think about this amendment the house is expected to vote on later this week . It was introduced by a republican in the house. I want to get your take on it. Host a little bit more from the New York Times this morning. It says host the senator spoke at the center for American Progress yesterday about this program. Is a liberal progressive think tank here in washington, as many of you know. And we covered his speech here on cspan. Here is a little bit. [video clip] at this point i think weve gotten in front of us some very serious questions. ,hat happens to our government our civil liberties, and our wonderful system, our bake it basic moxie, if our surveillance state is allowed to grow unchecked . He always expanding omnipresent surveillance state . What happens if it just keeps growing and growing . As we have seen in recent days, intelligence leadership is determined to hold on to this authority. Merging the ability to conduct surveillance to reveal every aspects of the persons life with the ability to conjure up the Legal Authority to execute that surveillance, and finally removing any accountable judicial oversight creates the unprecedented opportunity to influence our system of government. That is what senator ron wyden, democrat from oregon, had to say host that is what senator ron wyden, democrat from oregon, had to say. The bill is expected to come to the floor for a vote later this week. This is what the congressman had to say when he testified before the rules Committee Monday night about his amendment. Host so, it limits what the nsa can collect. What do you think about this amendment . Should it be approved by the house of representatives . Pine ridge, from south dakota. Democratic caller. What do you think . Caller im against it. I think it is a violation of our constitutional rights. I was pretty upset whenever i heard about that. Host you think the house should go through with the vote . Caller i think they should vote against it. Im at an indian reservation in pine rates, south dakota, and i think every year they are taking more and more of our constitutional rights. Basic constitutional rights. Ive been american all my life, paying taxes. 52 years old. Working since i was 13. I have always written to senators when i was against something. But i am totally against this. To william next from pennsylvania. Republican caller. Caller good morning. Host what do you think . Ill echo what do i think . Caller what do i think . Who thoughteryone the government was spying on us were liberal conspiracy theorist but now we find out we are not conspiracy theorists, but they do record everything, thanks to mr. Snowden, we know that this is true. Amazing to me that even when the light of day shines in on this fact and our legislators finally do something to try to curb it, our executive branch tries to continue this practice. We are toly not be secure in our belongings, persons, and papers. This is so obviously and overreach of a tyrannical. Overnment i wonder if they are monitoring the fact that i am calling you right now. Host william, let me bounce this off of you. Here is a piece by Stephen Bradberry of list in the Washington Post on monday. He was the head of the justice Departments Office of Legal Counsel from 20052009. In 2006, he led the departments legal efforts to obtain approval from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court for the telephone the metadata order. Here is what he had to say host in other words, the amendment would take away the ability to have the broader collection of data. It does not work, according to Stephen Bradberry, unless they can collect a big pile in order to see patterns. What do you think . Caller my comment is good. Ok . I tell you why. For one thing, i think people are going to have to get a hold of their telecommunications and tell verizon them, we are tired of you giving our data to these people. You have to stand up for our constitutional rights. We are trying to stand up for our constitutional rights. I am not worried about terrorists. I am worried about our government. That is what i am worried about. In cringes further and further. Host iron patriot says this. Pass the amendment. At some point the constitution mean something, or it doesnt. Allalso nara regulate federal records. The nsa collection breaks every authorized retention. There are rules. James sorry, i lost james. Fromo to austin independence, missouri. Democratic caller. You are on the air. What . , you know you got to turn down that television. We are getting a lot of feedback. The controlfolks in room workout the phone issue because i messed up by pressing two buttons at the same time. We will work that out and keep taking your phone calls here in just a minute. Let me go back to the New York Times article about what senator wyden had to say. We covered his speech yesterday. He says it says that next froms go to ron california. Republican caller. Early morning. Caller good morning. Interesting that people now seem so upset with the surveillance. 1999, weed from lost most of our First Amendment rights through the courts, and nobody was paying attention must much because they were just saying, well, i guess everything is fine. The police could stop you right now, your car, and go through all of your belongings where they never could do that prior to 1999. The data center that they just opened up in utah, it goes active, i think, in september. At whyshould go and look we were building this incredible tofice there that is going contain all the records of the worlds knowledge by the end of the year. It is a little late now to close the door on the barn. The reality is, our data should be available. I tell you why. Tsarnaevok at the brothers or any future terrorist out here, we have phone cards now, there are cell phones, we have all of this technology. Somehow it has to be collected, the data, so we can contain those people in the future somehow who want to do us harm. If we do not want to do that and we are not concerned about any of that, then maybe mr. Wyden is probably right and we should vote against it. But i do not think we can continue even if that bill passes. Country,inion of our right now National Security is the key ingredient. And in the future, in the foreseeable future, it has to be the priority. As far as i am concerned, just too late, try it next time. Host this is from senator feinstein and chambliss, the chairwoman and Ranking Member of the Senate Intelligence committee. Their statement about the amash amendment says this lets hear from host lets hear from tim from north carolina. Caller the last caller has got it all wrong. ,ny time we give up any freedom the terrorists have won. Looking for bogeyman under the bed, it we give up any more freedom. The fact we have people so far right and so far left agreeing on this, it ought to help the Senate Judiciary committee something about what is going on. Because it is just getting worse and worse. Anytime we are looking for i amman and terrorists a retired cop. We can do oldfashioned police were contacted them. They dont need to be listening to what i am talking to people about. Host can we catch them in time . With oldfashioned police work . Caller yes. I think so. To profiling. I hate to say it, but that is the truth. It looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. Host a viewer on twitter says this no spying without court order. But the funding. Thomas, maryland, democratic caller. Caller we should repeal the patriot act. Right after it happened in 9 11 and the republicans were in power, george bush and all of these people, they were using these here tactics to make theycans feel as though were being constantly attacked. It seems as though they were trying to use it for political reasons. You are writing down the highway and see signs, check on your neighbor, and all this sort of thing. It definitely needs to be repealed. We became the terrorists. We are the people being checked on, not the al qaeda, but the American People who are being processed. Let me just say this this guy in new york, what is his name, running for mayor . Host anthony weiner, former congressman . Republicans are so bad that people are willing to take this guy and make him a viable candidate because they are so desperate for some type of leadership. Host i will leave it there, thomas. I will show the news of the new york city mayors race in just a little bit. The caller mentioned the patriot act, which is what established the fisa court, and a little bit about that. Increased surveillance against terrorism related crimes, allow for roving wiretaps of suspected terrorists and give Law Enforcement more time to conduct investigations and faster act says to Business Records in terrorism cases. I little bit more and the specific sections. A little bit more and the specific sections. Allows information to be shared with intelligence agencies. Section 206 allows the fisa roving wiretap wire taps and section 213 allows for sneak and peek search warrant. And little bit more information put into patriot act law after 9 11 and has continually been reauthorized. We will keep taking your phone calls here. An amendment in the house ,ffered by justin amash republican of michigan, to curtail the nsa Data Collection. But first, some other news. The front page of the Arizona Republic has this story host that in the front page of the Arizona Republic this morning. And the Atlanta Journal constitution reporting their request to the find michelle as shepolitical persona made formal entry into the senate race. Host you can read that there if you are interested. The front page of the boston globe, talking about the rate,oan wrote would tie the rate to the treasury bonds. Here is the boston globe. Host that in the boston globe this morning. You moreeep giving headlines this morning as we continue the first 45 minutes. We want your take on an amendment and the house that would limit the nsas ability to collect your phone data. Are under investigation, the amendment says only funding for david collection if you are under investigation only funding for Data Collection if you are under investigation. If you are not, they will not be allowed to collect your data. The public and caller, go ahead. Time to say enough is too much. Amash. Ss senator wyden the Fourth Amendment says the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and a set against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated. And no one shall issue without probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized. So, i ask everyone out there who is listening, what is the probable cause to search and seize the phone numbers, times, and durations of billions of phone calls and emails on all of us each day, everyday . And president obama and congress as a whole ignore the Fourth Amendment . Pass the amendment and curtail the nsas the attempt to collect phone data. Host it sounds like you are following this very closely. Caller i am. Host are you on Justin Amashs Facebook Page or follow him on twitter . Have you been following his efforts . I follow it in the alternative media because you do not get as much of the mainstream media. I am not on facebook because i do not want to be tracked. Host the morning briefing, by the way, that came out this morning at 6 45 a. M. Says this about the amendment. Host tune in to our coverage are on when the house comes into session. Justin amash has been tweeting a lot. Monday night when he testified before the rules committee, it is reported he threatened the gop leaders he would take down the rule for the pentagon bill unless they allow for a vote on his amendments. Here is his tweet from last aght when is the last time president put out an emergency statement against an amendment . The washington elites fear liberty, they fear you. Nancy from austin, texas. Independent color. Caller i am very much in support of this amendment. We talk about, we have been fighting all of these wars to protect the freedoms, but we let these freedoms disappear right under our noses and we do not seem to care. The very things that made our country once so great. If people dont want this, they need to call their congressmen and ask them to support Justin Amashs amendment. The short quote from Dwight Eisenhower if you want total security, go to prison. You are fed, clothed, and given medical care. The only thing missing is freedom. Host orange grove, california. Democratic are caller. Carlos, youre on the air. Caller yes . Host please, go ahead. I will move on. Caller people who disagree with they do not know how critical the National Security agency is to the security of the United States. Host why do you say that . Of people are just fearful. Theylly dont know think they are just spying on them, just collecting work, putting in overtime they are not listening to those kind of things. Things they are listening to, anything that has to do with the security, you know what i mean . Of the United States. And things like that. Nobody is going to be listening to their calls. Machines like, for people who want to use codes , and they go to certain machines. They dont have 20 billion people listening to 20 billion phone conversations. Texas,erbert from republican caller. Nsaer my comment on this stuff, if the nsa is collecting all of our data and we are giving away our Fourth Amendment rights, why is that they cant catch all of the drug dealers, all of the people who are in criminal positions in our United States . Human trafficking. Prostitution. Drugs. If they so good at collecting all of that, i really dont get i really dont have a problem giving up that Fourth Amendment right if they can catch some other people other than the terrorists. What are they doing . Are they just pinpointing terrorists . That is not correct. I need to go after every criminal in the United States of america. Thats all i have to say. Thank you. Host about todays debate, which is what we are expecting on the house floor today over Justin Amashs amendment. Politico reported this as roved permits hip host so, when the house takes up the pentagon budget bill, there will be a debate not just on the nsa amendment we are getting your take on today but also amendment on egypt and syria. This is what politico says about theory. As much as syria is a new tlefront host so, debate on this pentagon budget not only includes this nsa provision but syria, afghanistan funding, etc. If you are interested, tune into cspan at 10 00 a. M. When they come into session. President obama is hitting the road to talk about the economy. We will be covering his speech at knox college at 12 50 p. M. Eastern time. If you arespan 3 interested. Here are some news reports about his speech and his strategy here. Here is the Baltimore Sun host that is what the Baltimore Sun says about the president s speech. The Washington Times says host some papers noting the president s economic speeches, as his Approval Ratings have come as his Approval Ratings have sunk lower. It matches that of george w. Bush at this stage in his second term while bill clintons approval at this stage in the second term stood at 50 six percent. We will be covering president obamas speech at knox college in illinois on cspan 3 at 12 this 12 50 a. M. Today 12 50 p. M. Today. Getting your take on an effort by justin amash and others about the bipartisan proposal to block nsa Data Collection. An amendment that is expected to come to a vote today and the house. Murfreesboro, tennessee. Independent caller. Caller however they going to pay for the nsa . 18 trillion in debt. There is no way we can. It basically comes down to that. You cant pay anything if you dont have anything. Host so, what do you mean . We cant afford the nsa Data Collection . Caller no way we can afford it. Anybody in the United States at all, period. Premature. In texas,le democratic color. Caller the only thing i really want to call mainly about is i kind of dont agree with it. The reason being one, everybody keeps going back to their constitutional rights. First off, when the constitution was written, we were not having they were not worried about terrorists coming over and suicide bombings and stuff like that. With all of the cuts that have been happening, especially to the military, you are downgrading your prevention from the attack over there. So, what is going to keep us safe over here . Jersey in 9 11, was very close to a couple of families who lost people. I think most important thing is National Security. Just as long as the information collected is used properly for terrorism and the safety of the American People, i dont see any problem with it. Louisville, kentucky. Republican caller. Caller i just wanted to say as an exit elevon worker who was involved with databases they are telephoneout as ex worker. People do not realize how often those databases are wrong and how hard they are to collect. Host why are they often wrong . And the limits of technology that people do not is there. Host these are records that businesses keep anyway . Caller telephone businesses keep them, they have to. The only way to build. Bill they have to bill the customer and now they it for a limited time. So, thats all i wanted to say. I dont think people realize that those databases are not always right. Abc news reporting this, Trayvon Martins father will speak at capitol hill. He will meet with the congressional black caucus, talking about the status of black males. We will cover it on cspan 3 live today at 3 00 p. M. Eastern time. Bonner hes, jo is leaving to take up a job at the university of alabama. And the front page of the Washington Post, the Virginia Governor apologizes and repays two loans. E says he returned 124,000 executives provided luxury items, an engagement gift for one of his daughters, 15,000 in wedding catering. Refers only to the loans but his daughter has returned the 10,000 engagement gift. Then on anthony weiner, the mayoral race in new york. Weiner, former congressman, admitted yesterday to explicit texting after he had resigned from the house when it came to light that he had been. Exting then from the New York Times, inside that story, it says host a New York Times poll host but the editorial boards way in this morning on his race. The New York Daily News says it is time for him to go. I does their opinion. And the wall street journal says mr. Weiner and mr. Spitzer they say the good news about mr. Weiners case is he exposed his inner demons are in campaign. Mr. Spitzer may not unleash until he is in power. Host the new yorker editorial says this host that in the papers this morning on former congressmans bid to become new york city mayor. John, cedar lake, tennessee. What do you make of efforts to curtail the nsas Data Collection . I am fromrst of all, cedar lake, indiana. I live about 50 miles from chicago. I wish most people in this country would realize that Domestic Violence is worse off our chances of being killed is much less than the violence that is here. I think we need to spend more money on violence in the United States instead of worrying about what might happen outside of the United States. Host all right. Bill. Mississippi. Republican caller. Nicer i think it would be if cspan would look into the Data Collection system that democrats put together this last election. The x ceo ex ceo of apple set up extensive Data Collection. When you put people like that system, and if they are access thes and can information nsa puts together, then we are really in big trouble. Greg, north carolina. Independent caller. Caller how are you . Wasnt a really nice, smiley kind of guy, but he did Say Something that had a ring of truth. He said that you do not have to hurt america a lot. All you have to do is hurt its a little bit and they will do the rest themselves. That is what happened. Registry, patriot act, and now more restrictions with the nsa. Vehiclesion of motor National State registry, all of that happened right around 2000. Rid of the new police car, Rundown School systems. New police cars, the attitude that fuels it, and Rundown Schools. The attitude that drives it, that is exactly what killed the Trayvon Martin. As far as Data Collection is going on, i think we ought to just focus, like i said, on labeling andad of profiling american citizens. It is just going a little too far here. Todayswer says vote will be able to determine who supports the confidential. Crystal, dallas, georgia. Independent caller. It is really important we get them to stop collecting this data. Dont know howwe any politicians or laws are going to be used against us or using that data. If they can backlog all of this information, they can inially build cases reality, nonexistent. Joke,y who has heard a native joe, joked about polish people or whatnot, and you can pull that information from phone from 10 years ago, and make it out like that person is completely racist or some other issue. They will be able to pull them. Host the Detroit Free Press an update on the bankruptcy situation. Tough. Cfo ready to get his plan, go after taxes, hunt for, and insist on accountability. In this from the state south carolina. A story on immigration. House of the lp and democrats immigration house gop and democrats clash. Host that in the state newspaper. On postal reform, hear from the Baltimore Sun. Host that in the Baltimore Sun. The latest on mail delivery. A couple minutes left. Adrian in saratoga springs, utah. Democratic caller. Talking about the nsa and efforts in the house to curb ability to collect data. Caller as a person here in utah where they are building the nsa center, i really feel strongly towards the bill of protecting all of our amendments. In general but the fourth in this scenario. Gone to see this data center they are building in utah . Caller i am a construction worker and i worked on the building. So, yes. As far as a local standpoint, job wise it is wonderful. With them being able to take away our Fourth Amendment. Host job wise, why do you think it is wonderful . Locally,s far as utah itcr is creating a lot of jobs here. It is helpingve job wise in utah. Host republican caller in south carolina. Help me with your name. I would like to take a different tact. Happens if people telling on someone is incorrect or abusive . And the watching goes a little farther . What happens to us as people . What do we become when the nsa perhaps does not really check into who is telling what . Be interested in this piece in the Washington Times this morning. History of nsa. It says host that in the Washington Times, if you are interested in act round of the nsa and how it came about. In other Foreign Affairs news, we told you yesterday that general dempsey outlined in a memo to the Senate Armed Services committee the different options in syria. Because he did that, reuters is reporting senator john mccain will not delay a vote on general dempseys nomination to a second term as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. Senator mccain says he will no longer hold up the nomination. Syriac, front page of usa today has the story. Host that in usa today from page. , inside the Washington Post has this picture. Stranded amid a government siege and alleged shift in border policy. This is one of the refugee camps in jordan here the border with syria. Young Syrian Refugees at the camp appear from the window of their classroom. This is the site of one of the refugee cap on the jordanthats refugee camps on the jordan refugee camps on the jordan serial border. Caller i think it is wrong. It helped us and we caught bin laden and all of that, tracing the phone call and the fact that, but how many rights are they going to take away . Did he soon you will not be able to do anything without them knowing about it. We were just fighting not too long ago about our internet and what they can do on there and what they can trace and prevent and what they cant prevent. Our phone calls, blocking and tapping every single phone they can get a hold of. They can do that, too. We were just fighting that not too long ago. To now little kids are going say student a stupid stuff and they will know about it. It is an invasion of privacy all the way around. What else do we do . What else will we have . Are they going to be knocking on every door and taking people out for it saying the stupidest things . It is an invasion of privacy, i think. Host this is dave from panama city, florida. Caller how are you today . Host good morning. Caller listen, you know, i definitely dont along with this spying on american citizens. One reason i really dont is the Fourth Amendment. The other thing, it goes hand in hand with the training manual and the fbi for the fbi where they are trained to not look at the right people. Theyve got five letters sent to them from multiple leaders in complaining and so about the fbi bothering them and stuff. Even looking at islamists come a radical muslims. They tell them in your training manual, you look for christians and people like that. So, you know, it is just ridiculous what is going on. Host we will leave it there. Coming up, we will talk with allison Jim Mcdermott up congressman Jim Mcdermott about the Affordable Care act but first we are joined by ron brownstein, editorial director of the National Journal about the congressional connection poll which surveyed Public Opinion on the healthcare law. Ron brownstein, let me just show the viewers the headlines from new poll. This americans broadly doubt obamacare will help them. What did you ask and how did they answer . Been theis has really core challenge for the Obama Administration from the beginning. What we asked was, who do you believe that the Obama Health Care reform would benefit . Would it benefit the poor, the uninsured, seniors, the middle or thepeople like you, country overall . What we found was that since last september when, during the campaign, the president was aggressively defending the law, there has been a marked deterioration, a decline in the share of americans who believe that it would benefit either the middle class, families like them, or the country overall while the proportion who believe it would benefit the poor and uninsured remained largely stable. What it suggests is a most americans now see this precisely in the opposite way the Obama Administration had hoped. Rather than seeing it as a broad benefit for society overall, like Social Security and medicare, most americans do seem to be reviewing it primarily as a welfare or transfer program that will benefit the needy but people like them. Host ron brownstein, what do you think it means for the Obama Administrations efforts to roll this out . They have this october 1 deadline. Is, again, challenge people do not see a personal benefit as it stands now. Hillhat creates a harder to convince them to come in. There will obviously be very targeted efforts at very specific populations. One promising sign for the administration in terms of operationally if not politically is that there is enormous racial gap in attitudes about the law. One of the most striking things in the poll that essentially mirror image views minorities and whites about whether it helps the middleclass families like them and help the country overall. With minorities, usually 55 6060 saying yes, and among whites, about 55 60 say no. Andg africanamericans hispanics, uninsurance is more common so there is the believed there could they benefit from those for those high on the target list. But for the very large portion of workingclass right whites who are uninsured, a steep hill. Under 30 in cases, seeing a positive benefit. A political and operational challenge. What thisnt to ask means the republicans. But let me add, before you answer that, yesterdays results of your poll with the headline that you had in yesterdays National Journal daily is most americans dont Want Congress to repeal obamacare. Guest important predicate. What theyple whether have seen with the delay on the employer mandate and other actions are indications that the administration is going to have significant problems rolling this out. We have 51 saying yes. We asked them what they wanted to do about that more money, wait and see what happens give more money to implemented better, wait and see or appeal repeal it, only 36 picked repeal. There is not an overwhelming consensus by any means or undoing this. The weather is is great skepticism but what there is, is there is skepticism it will benefit average families. If you look at the polling we have done and other peoples people have galloped at gallup had asked the question. At their highest point in Public Opinion, which has been , and even split on whether it is good. In our last poll in september a plurality said yes, it would be good for the country. What they have never been able to get to is a plurality, much less a majority, saying it would be good for me and my family. We have seen deterioration. Those are the two measures iwatch more closely is a good for the country overall, and is a good for me. Is it good for me, it it is enormous skepticism among whites, even portions of the White Community that and other issues that were more open like College Educated young women and younger whites where obama did better than elsewhere in 2012. Host i will end it there. Thank you so much for your time and telling us about your new poll. Guest thank you. Note,let me turn, on that too i guess. Congressman tom mcdermott. You heard about what you said about the polls. When asked about whether it is good for the country a good for you, the is struggling on that front on the Affordable Care act. You had almost a non ending barrage of rockets and do propaganda against obamacare since it was passed in 2010. You had a campaign in president in which they spend hundreds of millions of dollars trying to attack obama on the basis of obamacare. They have done 39 attempts in the congress to repeal it over and over again. So, that is the only real strong message, and consistent message. Notwhite house has been nearly as efficient or as powerful in their message about the positives. So, it is not surprising that the American People were negative on it. It is the same thing that happened in 1964 when the American Medical Association was against medicare coming into existence. They talked about it as socialism and communism and it was the end of medicine as we were going to know it in this country. To the point where people approach to be enrolled saying, no, i dont want the government healthcare. Now, try to take away medicare from the seniors today. Beginning, we are dealing with a barrage of people who are opposed to it. Host here is a political ce with the headline host have you seen him, talk to him . Guest i dont know who he is. If he were sitting in this room, i would not know him. Maybe he has been someplace, but i am on the ways and means committee, the Ranking Member on the Health Subcommittee implementing the bill and i have not seen him. Host is that a problem . Guest what it says is been a good talk on what they were going to do. But the white house has been terribly inefficient with dealing with the promotion of their bill. The 2010 election was a referendum on it, and they sat quietly him and we lost the house. After we had gone to bat for this bill. We then lost the house. Yourself, when is the white house going to actually get up and go . We have been prodding and talking and doing everything we can, but we are going to have problem is between here and the beginning. It is going to happen because it is in the law. The Supreme Court says it is the law of the land. Beause so it is going to implemented. In california, washington, an oregon you will see it take off. It may not take off in texas, they have a governor who is way back in the woods it does not believe we should use medicaid or anything else. That kind of stuff makes it hard for it to be a national program. But people are going to look at california, washington, an oregon saying, why cant we have it in tennessee or why cant we have it in north dakota or why can we have it in our state . That is what will happen. Host i want to get to phone calls. Orchard park, new york. Democratic all are. Youre on the air with Jim Mcdermott. Caller you are one of the most knowledgeable people in the , and from watching you on television on various programs, you strike me as somebody who is being very truthful to the American People. The question i want to make relates to why didnt president obama simplify the whole deal by saying, lets all at allicare for ages . If you like a private insurance, keep it, but lets open up medicare . One of the reasons i think he did not do that is he did not have the Political Support because for years we heard that canada, britain, other countries are very unhappy with their National Healthcare system, which is what medicare for all would essentially be. So, i would like to ask you, mr. Congressman, please tell the American People among whoever are listening on cspan this morning, that the people in canada, with some tweaking maybe perhaps, are very happy with their National Healthcare system and the same with britain, france, germany, norway every other industrialized country. Please, tell us the truth, mr. Congressman. Guest well, thank you for your kind words. I have always been for a single payer system, like the systems that have been in place all over europe. But the president made his decision not to go in that direction. And he tried to take basically a republican plan mitt romneys plan and try to adapt it to the United States as a whole. When you go down that road, you pick up certain kinds of problems you would not have had if you had gone singlepayer way. Oncehe real issue here is, you have chosen this road to go down i talked to bill frist, who used to be the republican leader of the senate. He said, jim, we should not repeal it, we should fix it. But the problem is, there was such a resistance to helping the president look good or making this program work that they would not sit down and figure out how to fix it and make it work the way they want. They are still planning to repeal it one more time between now and the time you go home on the first ofhome august. They have an idea that they cant get out of their minds that they are going to get rid of it. The the fact is it starts october 1. Pieces have already been implemented but they resist the idea of fixing it. Said the key have will be getting younger, healthier people into the exchanges. Reviewfrom national finding thata poll less than half of those people under 30 will sign up for the exchanges and those problems are routinely showing up in states repairing for obama cap repairing for obamacare. Guest i do not know where he came up with numbers. New york premiums will be cut by 50 . California, oregon, you all had reductions. I do not know where they are getting their numbers. They are not getting them from organizations that are doing actual work. It is hard to know if we are just any numbers hold out of the that areetting numbers pulled out of the air. The truth is people will look and see on october 1, and if i am right, they will sign up for it if they are right, they will not sign up. Host the New York Times has a that a teamotes working in the war room in the west wing is guest it is a much larger problem than healthcare. In 1975,nded the draft we said you have no responsibility. You are an individual. You can live in any way you want. Generations of people that do not see themselves as responsible for their neighbor. We have young people that figure if i get hurt, they will take me to the emergency room, i will not have money to pay for it, but somebody will pay for it and everyone in society who has Health Insurance is paying an extra 1000 a year for kids who refuse to rent is paid something might happen to them refuse to see something might happen to them. Young people get cancer, have skiing accident, and they figure some money will take care of them. That is not right. The bill says you have the responsibility to pay for the possibility. We do not let people drive without auto insurance. Host and there are stiff penalty is if you do not. Is that help in the Affordable Care act enough to incentivize young people 95. Guest when you pick a number, you could always argue it is too low or too high. The next year it goes up considerably and the next even more, up to 895. Nudge in thee theng and then if you next trick, we will get you three times as much. And the next time, we will get you three times as much. Poll fromme show a gallup. Mark. Hawaii. Independent. Thank you for calling us. You both for your service to our country. The uninsured is the problem. Think it is i patriotic to sign up. There will be some delays. Ien i was in my 20s and 30s had healthcare from my employers, and i never read it, or cared about it, but when you and 60s,r 40s, 50s you thank your lucky stars even if you have the most minimal. Goodbye now. Guest none of us when we are 20 years old think anything will happen to us. We look at old people and we cannot even imagine we will be that old. Time goes on and we say maybe it is good that we have it. Then you look at a friend who is in a car accident, or has diabetes or something, and you realize that could be me. Ast on twitter oregon numerous ads to attract young people. Guest i have not seen the ds, but im for anyone that gets people thinking about this. Who wants to think about getting sick or been injured . You never want to think about it, and you have to somehow bring it to peoples attention, and this could be you. If they are funny, that is great. Host is tweet if you are between 18 and 35 and refuse to carry Health Insurance, you are a. We should not have to pay for you when you get sick. You pay. Guest i am a physician. When you see a patient without an insurance card, you cannot say go out on the street and i. I have to and die. I have to take care of them. The healthcare profession cannot throw people out in the street. There was a young man brought to the hospital in chicago and not take union and he died in the taken in and he died in the parking lot. Big lawsuit. The law does not allow you to do that. Host we are talking about the Affordable Care act with the october 1 deadline looming for exchanges when open enrollment starts. Exchanges and 27 states defaulting to a federal exchange. Seven states have a partnership. Edward. Democratic caller. Caller good morning, greta. Representative Jim Mcdermott, good morning. Guest good morning. Caller the problem is we do not have enough spokespersons like yourself. You are the solution for this problem like some of the other senators speaking positively about obamacare. What we are suffering from is misinformation. They have attempted over 30 times to appeal obamacare. You have people voting against their own interest and the reason is because of this misinformation right wing radio and all of the broadcasting information. I blame the federal communication commission. All you have to do is look at the rest of the world and see far better healthcare that cost much less. Look at what we are doing today children, the people that really need this. When you slice up a pie the percentage of the pie the more people pay into the system, the more slices you will have in the cheaper it will be. People need to understand. It is not rocket science. Mcdermott, maybe find out how you can duplicate yourself and you can solve this problem. [laughter] host congressman . Guest thank you for your kind words, one of the problems is the program is complicated. Lets say you are a middleclass person making 40,000 a year. Maybe by yourself or you and your wife are making that amount of honey. You money. You now have a requirement that you must buy Health Insurance for your family. You say i do not have the money. You go in and apply. A judge your amount of income and they say you are eligible for subsidies. 600, 350, whatever amount, to help you by the Health Insurance you need. People are not aware that there is a system of subsidies for people that are economically challenged. Certainly, people like me will have to pay the full price because we have enough income to pay it, but people that are down 30,000, 40,000, 50,000 with a family, they are struggling paycheck to paycheck and they do not think they will have the money. Could do not know that gain that. They know there is a fine, but not a subsidy. Lets go to a republican caller in philadelphia. Help me with your name . Caller i am actually an independent caller. I have a couple of things i want to share about obamacare. One notion is things were fine previous two obamacare. ,hen i got into the job market 25 ,emiums were increasing 50 a year. I was in a serious car accident two years ago, and 500 medical appointments later, i am back together and doing ok. I was not allowed to buy Health Insurance on the private market. Obamacare did allow me, if i am not insured or six months, to purchase Health Insurance, but the private market will not sell me Health Insurance. I wanted to share that. This notion the private markets will cover this not true in my case. I am ready five, healthy i am 35, healthy now, but could not get insurance. Host cumbersome question congressman . Guest you are bringing up one of the most important things obamacare does it prevents the Insurance Company from denying Health Insurance because of the previous condition. If you say you were in a car accident and had a brain injury, broken bones and all of this stuff, the Insurance Company would say i do not think we want to have somebody like you and they could get rid of you because of your previous medical history. Now, that is no longer possible. The Insurance Company must take you. The reason, then, why we have to have everybody in is you cannot just have the sick people join. The people who cannot get insurance who would like to have insurance are excited, but the ones who think they do not have a need do not want to get in, so part of the reason for the mandate is you have to have everybody in so you have enough people paying. It is like fire insurance. You pay homeowners policy. You do not expect your home to catch on fire, but everyone is paying into that pot, and the Insurance Company has the money when the fire comes to pay for the house. Where you have all these forest fires, we have fires paid for by People Living in seattle where we have not had a fire in 40 years. We have been paying insurance. We do not want to every use it, it inr use it, but we pay case that day comes. Headline in the senate, republicans are circulating a letter to harry reid warning fox andas on friends pick up we want your reaction. [video clip] right now this is the last stop for obamacare kicks in for us to refuse to fund it. Andress has to pass a law we have been doing that through a continuing resolution. If republicans in both houses refuse to vote for continuing resolutions that contains further funding for obamacare, we can stop the individual mandate from going into effect. Host congressman . Guest this is like gettysburg in the civil war. They realize that on the over first, that on october 1, no matter what they do, this is going into effect. The last chance they have is this continuing resolution on the first of october two defund the program. It is a death the attempt. It is desperate attempt. It is reckless. It is saying we will send the country down the drain by holding up this continuing resolution to prevent obamacare from going into place. The reason they do not want obamacare to go into place if they are afraid the American People will realize this is good for them, obama brought them a good thing, and they will never want to collect a republican again. They do not want him to have an account bushman like Lyndon Johnson had with medicaid an account bushman like this like Lyndon Johnson had with medicare. Host do you think the president , to avoid a fight over this, will acquiesce in spending levels in appropriation bills for the Energy Department or other agencies . Will make every effort we can to keep the president s spine made out of steel. It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees. The president has to fight like he has never fought before in his life and this is gettysburg, the big battle. After this, the civil war was downhill for the self. That is what is cap south. That is what is happening with obamacare. Host you sound like you are gearing up for a fight. Also . What how so . What are Congressional Democrats doing . Guest we are all going home, spending the time in our district, talking to people about health care. I have spent time in king county, and they have the churches, all the centers empowered to enroll people all over the place because we expect 75 of the 70 people entitled to insurance to year inin the first washington. It will not happen on day one, we have set in motion the public to get this done. Tweets ifs in alabama mike lee and republicans want to block Appropriations Bills due to obamacare, harry reid needs to kill all filibusters. Here is an email. I work for several Health Insurance companies and i know the biggest drivers of costs are salaries,tive advertising and marketing, and software geared to limit benefits. Healthcare costs will never be reduced by by relying on the marketplace. Guest that is why this law has an interesting provision that allows the Insurance Company that forces the Insurance Company to spend 80 of the money they bring in on health care. They can only have 20 for administrative, advertising and executive salaries. Companies that did not spend 80 this year, had to give money back. In our state, we have thousands of people they got a rebate 100, 200, 300. That is what they got back because the Insurance Companies are being forced to spend 80 of what they take in on healthcare delivery. Host michael. Wilmington, vermont. Independent . Caller. Caller thank you. Did noton singlepayer succeed is because max baucus takes a lot of money from hmos. I would also like to say that joe biden was disrespectful referring to the left as whiners. Whining about unnecessary wars. Ona nonthey went on and they went. Huge things. Count thing i will comment on his Hillary Clinton in 2016 is a loser. War, and she the is antipeace. I want care and even and achievement of the middle east. Treatment of the middle east, the only thing Richard Nixon got right. Guest i am fixed on getting billwill in place this in place. What we have to do is figure out how were going to take care of one another. We have to reestablish the idea of the common good that i am responsible for everyone out there, responsible for people that dislike me. Im still responsible for them when they are sick. That is the principal we are trying to establish with obamacare. I am going to try to push for that as long as i have breath. Why hason twitter president obama not take into likeirways to explain aca george bush did to go to war iraq . Aq benchmark have he might not understood how entrenched the forces were. Medicare, the republicans, although they were opposed to it, or helpful in putting the deal together so that it would work. It, but workainst to make it a viable program. Mccann ogram, Mitch Mitch Mcconnell said on the ninth of january after obama was reelected, my number one job is to defeat this guy, so they to from the first two not make this work. Bill fisk said stop that. Republicans get sick. They have Health Care Bills like democrats. We cannot have one side saying we do not care about people who are sick. Host david. Iowa city. Independent caller. Caller good morning. Host thank you for waiting. Go ahead. Caller to her for taking my call. I am 26. I am selfemployed. I cannot wait for the healthcare exchanges. I am worried about getting sick. Everyone has insurance, the premium will go down and i am excited for it. Host let me contrast with david had to say with this tweet from jim explain the funding organisms for the subsidies and the expansion of medicaid mechanisms for the subsidies and the expansion of medicaid. How are they getting paid for . On devicere is a tax manufacturers. Social security money will be in there. There are a variety of places. It it comes from a general fund. We will find the money to do this. It is not one source. A singlepayer system is one in which all of the bills come to the government and the government uses the general fund to pay the bills. This is one where we take money from here and from there, and the rich people will be paying and all of this goes into the pot. Host this is from the fiscal times guest it is like your income tax. You file your income tax. Anything, and then at the end of the year they say you made more money than you said you did and we will tax you more of it the same thing more. The same thing will happen here. You did not present proper data, pay your fine all of that will come down to the irs. Host this comes down to the irs. Do you have confidence in the agency . Guest absolutely. S nonsense about the irs it was stirred up to have anger against the irs. Nobody likes the people that collects taxes. They do a good job and i think they are competent in doing this. Host eric in new hampshire. Republican caller. Caller to her for taking my call. Thank you for taking my call. Where i work at a grocery store, they say we have to keep cutting the hours because the only way they can stay afloat is to cut. I am thinking they like to cut the hours i am a union store and all, but i am thinking maybe some of the hours are being cut the cause of obama care. Am i going up the wrong pole, or what is your opinion . Guest there might be some employers that would look their employer employee in the i and say i will cut your hours so i do not have to give you Health Insurance. They are not most employers. Most are trying to figure out how they can have a reliable, Healthy Workforce that shows up every day and makes the business run. To start monkeying with people and penalizing them and say i am mad at obama so i will take away your healthcare benefits, in my view it is a small number and it does not reflect well on the people that do it. I think the fact is every employer wants a stable Workforce One that they can count on. If you are sick and you stay home, suddenly something is not covered. Have a workforce you can count on. Healthcare is very important to employers and i think they will line up and help. Host linda. Florida. Independent caller. Both healthve read care bills before they came out, and they are terribly misinformed. Tell people how the plans work. You will have a deductible. You will have coinsurance and a copayment. You will still have lots of money you have to put out even though you have paid your premium. Your premium is the sine. Dine fine you need to talk about medicaid. Almost no doctors will take medicaid. You will enroll Million People into a plan and they still have unless they go to their local hospital or clinic. Host linda, i will leave it there and have the congressman respond. Fascinatingf the things is we have had an experience in running obamacare. It in place, put and lo and behold the city did not fall in. People did not wander the streets looking for a doctor. There have been some glitches. I do not think you can take in 30 Million People into a program and expect no glitches at all. Fact will be some, but the is it worked in massachusetts and it will work in the country. The you made news in Washington Post. You have a bipartisan proposal to change the way doctors are paid. Explain what you want to do and the prospects for passage. Guest right now, this is for medicare, physician fees are set , aa committee run by the ama review of utilization committee. They set the prices, send them to medicare and medicare by and large takes them. The funny thing is 95 of the time goes up. If you have done something a hundred times, shouldnt the price go down . You are really good at it. Committee of doctors. Lets have people that are not financially involved look at this and see if it makes sense and maybe we will get a reduction in how much the costs are. Host you must not a very popular with your doctor colleagues. Guest some of them i am. It is the people that do procedures that continued increases. The medical profession is divided in two pieces. I have one half of them. Host congressman mc dermot, ui for your congressman Jim Mcdermott, thank you for your time. Next we will talk to bill cassidy about the Environmental Protection agency. By thewe will be joined Senior Editor for Popular Mechanics to talk about their cover story about the future of technology in war. First a news update from cspan radio. The Russian State News Agency says nsa leaker Edward Snowden has been granted a document allowing him to leave the transit zone of a moscow airport and enter russia. He applied for temporary asylum last week. The United States want him sent home. At thenowden has been transit area since june23. The senate plans to take up a bill today that would link Interest Rates to financial markets, providing lower rates for all College Students this fall, but perhaps resulting in higher rates in the years ahead. Critics including liberal democrats and student groups called the proposal a bait and switch measure. Watch live on 9 30 a. M. Eastern time on cspan2. The father of Trayvon Martin is set to give opening remarks at a hearing today on capitol hill addressing the challenges faced by African American males. It is the first hearing of the newly formed congressional caucus on black men and boys. Those are some of the latest headlines on cspan radio. That role of the first lady she becomes the chief confidant. She is really, in a way, the only one in the world he can trust, so he unloads to her, talks to her. They have all done that. They are all strong when women and they usually accompanied a strong man to wear he was, but i would say that is their main road, confidant to the president. Examinesiginal series the private lives of these women and the influence on the presidency. Watch the on Court Presentation weeknights in august at 9 00 p. M. Eastern starting august 5 on cspan. Washington journal continues. Host we are back with converse been bill cassidy, republican from louisiana who sits on the energy and commerce committee, and we are here to talk about and it isn on Energy Called the Energy Consumers relief act. Let me share with viewers what the center for progressive reform president had to say. Named energyely consumer really act guest i have no clue why he says that. The premise of the bill is to provide transparency. Right now, epa can put out a bill that costs 10 billion to it can destroy thousands of jobs, and frankly, this happens. Our bill says if they put out a bill that has an economic consequence of 1 billion, the department of energy would be allowed to review, audit, if you will, and if they think it outweighs the benefit, they would not allow the bill to go forward. Transparencys add so the American People can look at a bill being passed and see if the cost and the benefit favors benefit. Why the gentleman would say it is so terrible when all were doing is asking for transparency, i do not know why. Responsethis a direct to the Climate Change speech the president gave recently where he directed the epa to write a rule for emission . Guest right now, bluecollar workers and their families are struggling across the country. They have worked traditionally in mining and construction. This is not a response to the program. I would hope the president comes on board. It is a response to the fact that bluecollar families are hurting. They need the jobs for their own livelihood and that of their childrens futures. If epa director can make the case that a regulation benefit relative to its cost, it still goes forward. Host this is more from the center for progressive reform, saying this would need cap the agencys ability to protect citizens guest no. It would be subject to an audit and a review. Lets imagine a rule would have 1 billion in cost and five dollars in benefit. An extreme example. This gentleman believes five dollars in benefit is worth it to destroy these jobs. By the way, the signs that the epa has used has been called specious, criticized by the National Academy of science and other studies, number one. As regards to health benefits, there is a guy formally with the Harvard School of of the health that said the method the epa uses is invalid and mislead policymakers. First, lets put it on record that epa science may not be valid. Secondly, we do know that regulations can kill jobs. If you will, a rich family is more concerned about the environment than a poor family. I like to say you cannot be Pro Environmental unless you are profamily. These regulations are jobs. Host a little more from this statement because i want you to tell viewers specifically why you disagree with this part. It says on the issue of overregulated, under regulated, tell us why you disagree. Guest what we are talking about is baseline. If somebody is sick from the water they are drinking or the air they are reading, we might need breeding, we might need but why areation, they giving up a job for a study that might not be valid . Why should the American People know the justification the epa uses to promote their benefit, or the cost that will be incurred . This gentleman clearly loves regulation. He clearly does. He somehow does not think the jobs lost because of epa regulations are important. Host what are some of the regulations you think are he reaches . The egregious . Guest there is the ozone rule 90 billionave a dollar impact. The president told the deck. If you will pulled it back. If you will, we have proof that every now and then the epa acts without regard to economic consequences and it would be important to have someone look at these and say is the cost worth the benefit. Host carol is in ohio. Democratic caller. Have two points to make on what bill cassidy is talking about. Host ok, we are listening. Would like to say that when cleveland caller i would like to say that when cleveland caught on fire because of its pollution, that affected everyone in the United States, but somebody in the west would say that does not affect me, so it does not matter. One other point the republicans like to cut oh grams they do not like, i know they programs they do not like, and all they want to do is cut epa. Guest we are not cutting their budget. They can doaying is their work and have an independent audit. Your point is well taken. Had ae point, cleveland huge problem and now they are doing a lot better. There has been a 90 reduction in carbon emission since 1998. Decrease in0 emissions. We have made tremendous progress. Part of the concern is the epa is going after marginal benefits or benefits that do not even exist, and your point that affecting one area of the country can have adverse effects on another, absolutely true. Epa thinks they are going after a coal mine, for example, and theyre really going after them business that depends on the creates jobs that in ohio, or the insurance agency. I could ripple it out. It has germanic affects all over the country. That is why we need trance cast dramatic affects all over the dramatic affect all over the country. Host ralph. Michigan. Democratic caller. External cost of fossil fuel pollution, like your example, coal, the destruction of streams, the removal of ecosystems those are all cost that are not included in the cost of coa;, coal, and similarly, the tar sands. You have the problem of Carbon Pollution. Hashave that coal, which filled with sulfur. It has piled up in michigan. It goes into the detroit river, into the air. People inhale it. And lets talk about the sea level rise, which is also Carbon Pollution and it affects all of the east coast. Are those costs going to be included in the cost of the audit for the price of fuels . That theythe degree are valid costs, they should be included, but we should make commonsense judgments as well. You brought up the tar sands from canada. If we do not remember to the gulf coast in a way that is carbon neutral, they will be shipped by both over to china boat, where they, with lax environmental rules, would send them all over the world. And, if we send it to china, we are creating jobs for the chinese and nonAmerican Workers. Carol pointed out that something jobs acrossffect the country. If we do not develop Energy Resources, we are destroying jobs not just in the area where the Energy Resources are brought to the surface, but all the way down to where the manufacturing jobs are created, and the energyintensive jobs that might be in the midwest or the west coast tour east coast that rely on the feedstock. I would like all of this to being coded. Included. Host here is a story on politico posted this morning. Guest of course this has nothing to do with this law. Host right. Guest were now talking about what we generally think about the epa in terms of financing. Jim mcdermott was before me. Im sure he is arguing for more money to be spent on healthcare. Everyone argues for more money to be spent on everything, but nobody wants the taxes that we know killed economic growth. At some point we will have to live within our means and i will not comment in any other way but to say we are in a Budget Constraint environment and that is something to do with this law. Host right, but on the overall budget and the ability for the work, ginaheir mccarthy, who was approved by the senate, will go to her new job, and her own office is cut by 20 . Guest again, that is nothing to do with this law, and i have not read that division, so it is difficult to comment. Host would you vote for a budget cut for the epa . Guest do you mind if i have a chance to read it first . Youre asking me to comment on something either devote three minutes ago. Is is the epahere passing regulations that has a negative impact on jobs and family stability to have a future . Are they using signs that in some cases is not clear, it science that in some cases it is not clear . Comment on it, having just heard it, but i can say the epa has proposed laws that are jobkilling, and of a marginal, and maybe negative impact on the environment. I do not think the American People would mind transparency. Is it true they will bring benefits . Host do you have the votes . Guest i think it will pass the house, absolutely. We have some democrats vote on it in committee. Senate, will you have someone introduce question mark introduce it . Yes, it will be introduced and harry reid is more concerned about his agenda jobs. Iddleclass host kentucky. Wells thatave oil have been abandoned. I have one in my yard that goes down a tributary to the ohio river. I have been fighting with people to get this thing cleaned up or do something with it because it is destroying my property. I cannot put cattle on my property because they drink from the stream and it would kill them. How do i get these people to get out here . I have shovelready jobs. How do i get them out here and get this fixed . Times, mary, your own state department of Environmental Quality would be the one to do that. In a representative democracy, if you call your local state representative or senator, often times this is a state issue, and your state representative can bump that up and be your advocate. If it is destroying your property, there are laws against that and you can file suit. There are Environmental Protections for you. It will require phone calls to your congressman or congresswoman, but there are, reliefsw, reallys for your current situation. In louisiana, when those things occur, there are civil suits filed and there is legislation over this issue. Host roy. Arkansas. Independent caller. Hi, roy. Caller how are you. Host good. You are on the air with congressman cassidy. Caller i would like to make a comment about the epa. I believe in clean air, clean water and a clean environment, but the epa has driven more jobs offshore than any other agency. I started a 1980s shop, and when they started clamping down on people making castiron, it went to taiwan and they never came back. It cleaned up the castiron business, those Companies Never came back and they never will. I know of another dupont. In southern california. Taiwan. Ed it to pollution knows no boundaries. Guest regulations can absolutely destroy jobs. Congressman tim murphy spoke during our committee hearing. He said that the Hatfield Mitchell coalfired plant in pennsylvania was shut down. 400 employees lost their jobs. They were joined by 5000 other coal miners that lost their jobs. A longer, there were weicians, carpenters, are listing names of upper cape occupations. I wish we could list family names. I am a doctor. Ive been working in a Public Hospital for the uninsured for the last 20 years. My Patient Population has been fired whooverished, had hoped to have a job with good benefits, or someone who had a job and lost it. Half of those patients, i say wait a second, look at the human. Imension of these regulations i wish we could list of families that were unemployed by this coalfired plant in pennsylvania being shut down. That would, if you will, put a face on this bill. Lets create transparency. Lets look at the cost and see if the benefit outweighs the cost. If it does, proceed. If not, lets side with the American Worker that the epa bureaucrat. Tweets how much House Research and Law Enforcement that the epa currently engaged in . Tost they have the ability turn on somebody. Inple remember the case colorado, where there was something the dean they wetland and the family had to fight it to the Supreme Court to have common sense prevail that the patch of dryer was not a dry earth was not a wetland. They have the ability to take people to court. Host what about the inHouse Research they do . Guest they outsource some of it. Their statistical modeling has been criticized. A gentleman that was formerly with the Harvard School of the health rep of public the National Institutes of science. They will claim benefits when thescience would show benefits do not exist. They are costing jobs, using science that Scientists Say is wrong. Host if youre legislation passes and they are required to prove that it would not have an Economic Cost of 1 billion, with the research be done in house . Would do thee research. They have a surplus of 2 billion. It is not as if they can not this with existing resources. By the way, i will also say that 5000 5400y jobs, there is a cost to that. There is a cost to the family that cannot send their kid to college. Lets keep in mind that cost. Host democratic line. Ell in westlow virginia. Caller good morning. Guest good morning. Producesississippi enough energy that we do not coal. Il or electricity at 10 of the cost that we are presently paying. All you have to do is look at the hoover dam. 90 of our electrical bill goes to wall street. Wall street. 200 electric bill, you are only getting 20 worth of electricity. Wells and dams use electricity, do not use fuel and therefore do not pollute. That eliminates all your pollution. Host ok. I will jump in at this point and have the congressman respond to what you said so far. Guest the difference between the hoover dam and the mississippi is most of the time hydropower depends on a difference in altitude. Something from a High Altitude floats downward and that is where you generate electricity. Mississippi is a pretty flat river. There is a hydroelectric plant flowouisiana, and it is low in the sense that there is ittle altitude change, but does not have the capacity for what we would normally need to run a good economy. You do make a point that energy is essential to good jobs. Bluecollar workers have been traditionally employed in mining, manufacturing and construction. It epa shuts down a mining operation, it increases the cost and that means youre manufacturing job those overseas, anything goes overseas, he did not have any reason you do not have any reason to construct a new power plant or a new road to a power plant. There is a renaissance of american manufacturing. You point out the relationship between energy and good jobs. That is what this bill is opposed to show, that we are helping bluecollar families by bringing those jobs back, keeping the cost of energy lower. If we raise the costs, we will send jobs overseas like the earlier caller talked about. We want the jobs. Host we are talking to kirsten bill cassidy, republican of louisiana congressman bill cassidy, republican of louisiana. In do we have to sacrifice clean water, air, Climate Change for more jobs . Guest a couple of things first of all, i do think we have to sacrifice anything. The air is healthy to breed. E. E water breath water is healthy to drink. This does not roll back progress. If there is a benefit from legislation that outweighs the cost, the legislation goes forward. Economicallyboth in terms of jobs is so high, we say lets pull back from it, and lets review the science because we know from the National Academy of science and others that sometimes the epa uses science that is invalid to support regulation that kills jobs. I will tell you we absolutely do not want to lose jobs because the epa is using funny science. That is not fair to the American Worker, her family, her grandchildren. Newoverall tradeoff regulations kill jobs and can we balance those, that is what this bill is about good lets have transparency about. Lets have transparency. Host we have about 15 minutes left with the congressman. Here is a piece. Host secondquarter numbers from 2013, you have 3. 2 million. Guest yes. Host that is the answer to the question . Guest no, if you are asking about my political race, the fact is it is going to be an expensive race. We have what senator vader had when he ran for reelection senator vitter had when he ran for reelection as an incumbent. If you want to talk about other things, senator landrieu votes with barack obama 97 of the time, and that is roll call, not me. She supports him on things which people in louisiana just dont care for, obamacare as one example. That may work if she was for presenting massachusetts, but she is not peerage he is representing louisiana. Not louisiana values, but her own values and Barack Obamas values. Our state is suffering from Barack Obamas policies, whether it is obamacare him a Small Businesses that cannot comply with the cost to regulations of epa or obamacare. She loves that regulation, i love jobs. She loves barack obama, i love our louisiana families. I think we have a pretty good shot. Host we had a poll earlier this morning that the health care law, National Journal just put out that while people dont think that the rollout is going well so far, they do not want it repealed. Guest so, that of course is a national poll. Washington post poll that showed that even among democrats the support is collapsing. One poll is showing that even among democrats, support is not there. To be replacedd by something, something in which the patient has the power, the American Power the American Family has the power, not a washington bureaucrat. Obamacare puts control in a washington bureaucrat. There is going to be 30 Million People uninsured after obamacare is completely implemented, and that is the most optimistic number. , 30rillion in new taxes Million People uninsured, politicians and bureaucrats controlling the healthcare policy of a family as opposed to the family controlling the health care of the family. I say we can do Something Better than that. Host we will go to david in wisconsin, republican caller. Good wil caller good morning. In wisconsin we have enacted a lot of these epa regulations, and one of the things they will say is that if you look at our energy costs in wisconsin in comparison with other midwestern states, we used to be the cheapest as far as energy costs. We are now the most expensive. Unfortunately, what is happening is a lot of these epa regulations have affected the power plants that we have had in our state and the manufacturing to the point where there have been quite a few manufacturers that have left wisconsin, going to other places in the world, and, i might add, we are trying mine in our state, and one of the things that bothers me with the epa one of the biggest offenders of pollution is just to the south just come in chicago to the south of us, chicago. Chicago on a continual basis does raw sewage that goes into the river, and one of the things they did is they reversed the flow of the chicago river, Lake Michigan water, and you being there in louisiana, you actually get the pollution from chicago through the fact that they dont have proper filtration plants there. Theepa will go after company, but when it comes to municipalities in a place like chicago, where obama is from, there is absolutely no penalties against this whatsoever and it is very, very aggravating. I think at the end of the day people have to realize that if yourook at what is in house currently, some of these light bulbs, they are all mercurylaced, and if you break one you have to call the environmental hazard person to clean it up. You cant even do it yourself. Host ok. Congressman . Guest david, you make a couple great points. The politically wellconnected mayor of chicago is able to circumvent laws which would apply to the rest of us. The private industry, which creates good paying jobs, manufacturing jobs instead have to suffer under regulations, and they move overseas and it is the American Family which is hurt. Theitically well at politically wellconnected will always have their healthcare. It is the average american that is not. The bigger the government, the favored few get what they want and everybody else is under the regime. That is number one. Number two, you make the point that the power to regulate is the power to destroy. You can destroy jobs with regulations. There may be a reason to destroy that job. On the other hand, lets have a transparent process. If the voters of wisconsin know that when these laws were being passed they were going to lose their good jobs and benefits, maybe there would have been a Second Thought about the Regulatory Regime being imposed. That is all we want with this bill. Lets have transparencies of the American Family knows lets have transparencies so the American Family knows what are the costs, the benefits am a and if it goes too far, lets put a stop to it. Host craig is next, pennsylvania, independent caller. Caller i want to thank you very much for actually pursuing this. I have several items i can discuss on this. I work in iowa as a tax accountant, and iowa is a state also where, the other caller mentioned, ive industry was fine private industry was fined 65,000 by the epa and another walked away scott free. I am in coal country here and there was a power plant that is getting ready to close down, and this number is from one of the employees i am not one hundred percent certain 100 million to convert to gas, or everybody loses their job. You drive through central pennsylvania and there are no polluted streams here. We have had coal since we started mining it. There are issues from old mines from the early 1900s which have been cleaned up and you see a little bit of that around, but the new industry, there is nothing. My clientso say that list of course, i cant give names or anything like that 15 of them are really struggling because of the coal industry and what the epa is doing, and also regarding gas wells, there was a big boom and another 15 of them are hurting because pennsylvania and the epa are going to close those down. Host ok. Congressman . Guest isnt it tragic . He says there has been great improvement in pollution but still the bureaucrats cant stop, they continue to come after American Families not directly. They go after the jobs that employ them. They dont see the connection between this plan to they are trying to shut down and the families that work there. I see the connection not just with that family but with their children, their grandchildren, with generations. My dad didnt go to college. My dad moved to louisiana to sell Life Insurance to the workers in the plants. My gosh, i am a doctor, a, i am living the American Dream , ifuse the Power Companies you will, created opportunity not just for their workers but for the entire community. What we are about to see in pennsylvania is the reverse. That opportunity is snuffed out. It is not that the strains are polluted. Streams are polluted. Crake is telling us that they are clean. Rather, we are snuffing out Economic Opportunity for generations to come. What is wrong with transparency, what is wrong with just asking the regulator, the bureaucrat, to justify what he or she is doing in a way against the interest of the megan, of the American Family . Ost this tweet from mike do you agree with that number, do you know about that number . Guest i cant comment on that because that is what he just said. But coal is typically being shipped overseas and coal fire plants are decreasing in number and in the percent of our electricity that they provide. Isnt that an irony . Do we really think that china has stricter environmental regulations then we . Of course not. There are 393 coalfired plants being planned in india and china. So epa is going after our problem, but if you look at where the Carbon Emissions are coming, they are coming from china and india and other developing countries. We are killing american jobs, and there is marginal benefit to our economy, if any at all. I think we need to have transparency there. Ella in darlington, pennsylvania, democratic caller. Aller i just have a question i dont know where that man was calling from in pennsylvania that says the streams are fine. We havent had good water here because of mining years ago. We have to go and get water somewhere else to drink. I wanted to know if alec is behind this legislation. Alecs a state legislature kind of organization. Im having to pull that out of my memory. The answer is no. What is behind the legislation is that American Families are losing their jobs, and we have heard other colors from elsewhere who do a test to jobs being lost because of epa regulations, and we have had testimony before congress that says the science the epa uses is often misleading to Public Policy makers and that the benefits really arent there. That is what is driving this legislation. We have science, which credible third parties say is invalid or misleading, and yet we are killing jobs with the regulations based upon this misleading science. Lets stick up for the American Family. Host jane in florida, republican caller. Couple minutes left. Caller i would like to say that this administration is more interested in hiring more people for more regulations behind every facet of our country. We are not a nanny state, and i say three cheers to bill. Cassidy. And i hope that many people will wise up and stop this terrible regulation on everything. We are not children. We are grown adults, and we love our country, and we are sick and tired of this administration. Thank you. Guest thank you, jane. The power to regulate is the power to destroy, any epa is killing jobs with oftentimes have no scientific basis, or their conclusions are misleading, and i agree with you, all this legislation does is ask for transparency. Why should the administration feared their own secretary of energy being able to look at a bill being passed by epa and make a judgment as to whether or not the benefits outweigh the costs . I have no clue why people would fear the american the American People know that the American People would know the inner workings of the epa. Host congressman cassidy, what is coming next from the epa that you are concerned about, that you are watching . Guest several things, but on the other hand, if i mentioned specific legislation, people are going to assume this is about a specific issue. This is about a principal. Principle. The epa using science that is misleading is killing jobs, snuffing out Economic Opportunity for merrick and families. If i mentioned specific legislation people will assume that there is some special Interest Group behind it. American that the people should know what the epa is doing and the Economic Impact it will have on them. One of the callers earlier said that it affects americans across the country come and i can tell you that when epa shuts down a plant in pennsylvania, that increases the supply of electricity and raises the level raises electricity costs and energyintensive manufacturing plants someplace else suddenly can no longer compete here and they offshore jobs to mexico, india, or china. I can tell you, why not have a little transparency . Lets see if the tradeoff is there. This is a principal, not related to a specific bill. Host congress been bill cassidy, thank you for talking to our viewers. Coming up, our spotlight on magazines series continues with a reporter from Popular Mechanics. First, an update from the cspan radio. An outofcontrol natural gas well off the louisiana coast continues to burn this morning. It caught fire last night following a blowout that prompted the evacuation of 44 workers. Federal Officials Say no one was injured by the fire. It is not known what caused the gas to ignite. Federal Bankruptcy Court takes up detroits case for the first time today. The city wants a judge to put a stop to the lawsuits in other courts. A county judge says that state officials ignore the constitution and acted illegally in approving the bankruptcy. Retirees claimed their pensions are protected by the michigan constitution. Finally, president obama is turning his attention to the economy and policies he says will expand the middle class and help people he says are still treading water years after the financial meltdown. The president will use a series of accomack speeches over two days to talk about his i series of backtoback speeches over two days to talk about his ideas. You can hear his remarks in illinois at 12 30 eastern time on cspan radio or watch the 3. Ent on cspan cspan those are the latest headlines on cspan radio. , thethink, interestingly korean war in a sense helped the South Koreans unify themselves in a way that was not there before. When the communists came down, it was brutal, and a lot of South Koreans turned against the communists in the north and that sort of solidified their sense of National Cohesion and identity. , it ishink had he waited very possible that the south probably would have it is possible that would have is integrated on its own. 60 years after north korean troops crossed the 38th parallel, sheila jager looks at a war that never really ended, sunday night at 9 00 on after words, part of book tv this weekend on cspan two. Washington journal continues. Host in our last hour on wednesdays we look at recent magazine articles as part of our spotlight on magazines series. We want to show you the cover story of Popular Mechanics. The future of war. The Senior Editor of Popular Mechanics, Joe Pappalardo, is joining us from new york this morning. He went to the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat center in the mojave desert. What is it and what is going on there . Guest hi, greta. The combat center is located close to Joshua Tree National park, and it is a massive, sprawling desert environment where the marines can do very high fidelity live fire combat training at the battalion level. It is one of the few places where they can use all the weapons they have at their disposal to trained before deployment. You have tanks, helicopters, combat aircraft, armored liveles, marines firing ammunition and coordinating together to trained before deployment. It is a great place for a journalist like myself to go and really see how practitioner see a practitioners eye view of how modern combat is conducted and you can get a glance of where it is going from there also. Host when you were there there were 800 marines training. What exactly were they doing . You refer to it as the integrated Training Exercise. What is that . Guest the integrated Training Exercise is a new variant on the familiar Training Exercises they do. They spent a month at 29 palms doing a very elaborate scenario, and it culminates in this three day live fire combat drill, where they attack him and defend, and then counterattack. , andey attack, defend then counterattack. When i was there it was only the second time they were doing this. They use to call it advanced mojave viper. They always change the name when they change the structure of the training. It is preDeployment Training so the marines were not going to iraq or afghanistan. They were going to the pacific and were training in, i guess, different kind of enemy. Instead of insurgents with rocket propelled grenades on their shoulders and ieds, they were turning against bigger, more wellequipped armies, a standing army, with tanks, antiaircraft missiles, hungers. Bunkers. It is a real different kind of fight to train for. Host in the marines 3 explain who they are. Guest that is the battalion level. The combates commanders who are in the command center moving all the pieces around, and then the 800 or so marines doing the training. Top of those people there is the aviation element, the f18s roaring overhead dropping 2000, 500pound bombs. And they have the tanks also. It is the entire battalion who deploys to the theater and is involved in one of the large scale fights and they are all represented there, which made it interesting to observe up close. Host why is that . Guest when you cover the defense beat, you kind of take it piece mail. You spend time with the people who made these tanks, you fly and osprey, you train and you do all of these things but you never see it come together and Work Together in what they call combined arms, where everyone is supporting each other. When you watch them up close and the marines are trying to take an objective and they have to coordinate all these moving pieces, and the claimant any equipment is moving, you get a good sense of the scale of this and the in normandy and complexity of modern warfare complexity ofd modern warfare. People tend to think that with satellite systems that the fog of war has dissipated, but when you are out there and you are close up, you see that it really hasnt that much. There is still a lot of and the ambiguity on of the battlefield and if you dont match the right Weapon System with the right target, it doesnt go well. Shooting without maneuvering is a waste of ammo, maneuvering without shooting is suicide. You get a sense of how true that is when you see all the elements trying to come together to take an objective and you have to get the artillery at the right spot and you have to get the tanks moving at the right time, and the synchronization of all that is incredibly, gated. Is incredibly complicated trade when it works it is amazing, it looks like a ballet, and when it doesnt, it bogs down terribly. Host you said that these marines are deploying to the pacific. Who is the enemy there and what new technology, when you tactics are they planning for . It is important to know that the marines no one in the military trains against a specific enemy. They train against capabilities. Having said that, but capabilities they are training for our tanks and sophisticated surfacetoair missiles, armored personnel carriers, it enemy artillery, and the people who have that on the world stage that we have geopolitical tensions would include air and and syria, but in the pacific it was north korea and china. Some of the things that the marines were training for, and some of the ways that they wanted to tweak their tactics to face an enemy that has more modern equipment would be the ,nvy 22 osprey mv22 osprey they have a lightweight 777, light enough to be carried around the battlefield and they can set it up in a couple minutes. All of these things help the marines to maneuver and that is really important in the way that the marines fight. They are called expeditionary warfare, where you dont have a set base or a larger runway that is secure. You are fighting, ship or from you are fighting from a ship or from a place on land trad on land. He goes back to when the marines were founded in 75. They are made to fight to protect the ships or on shore to take objectives. That is why they are called marines. Ethos ishose that very much alive in the marine corps and they are trying to take them back to that and get them away from the iraq and afghanistan model where they were using heavy vehicles that you couldnt carry around, that werent they were survivable and they could survive ied blasts of the marines would rather strike from a direction where you dont expect them so that no one is there to plant an ied to begin with improvised explosive device, roadside bomb. That is what they are trying to get back to and that is the big change in they are not finding insurgents, they are fighting actual armies. That changes the tactics, and the new technology that they are bringing to the field is meant for that as well. Joe pappalardo writes in his piece that they dont need to beachheads as staging areas or aircraft and weapons will be able to will enable the marines to strike in land from nearby bases and ships. In this scenario, the Court Follows its founding doctrine of expeditionary warfare but uses modern gear leapfrog the beach to take objective x. And we are showing a graphic inside the magazine article. Can you explain that a little bit . Guest sure. It is the masters thesis from everything i have learned that there. Every thing in that graphic, every element is to support each other. But the world war ii model, or the korean model, where you, on shore and you master the onshore and you master the forces and take the objective, that is not what the marines want to do anymore, because of modern weapons, and some of those include cruise missiles and Ballistic Missiles. If you are setting up and the enemy might have satellites also, they know where you are and can name these things at you and disrupt your tactic before it even starts. What the marines want to do now is go farther in land and stage from their ships and go straight in. For example, the osprey can take off and land vertically, can take off from a ship and go in land and carry the howitzers, as i mentioned before, they can set up a firing area, and they would shoot at the objective and when heads are down, they can clear the way for another assault. To protect the howitzer, you want to attach some troops there to protect them from counterattacks so that we have some armored infantry an entity is carriers that would so that we have amphibious carriers that would form a protective corridor around the artillery and more mv22s would come in and do an air assault, the objective supported by the artillery. Mv22s would be at risk from surfacetoair missiles, in our scenario we have antiaircraft f35, which have the is an in service yet but it is service which isnt in yet but is coming, to guard that and take out the aircraft system. Every thing is working together, and the timing at least in the graphic the timing is perfect. In reality, getting that synchronization together is a lot harder, but that is the point i wanted to get across, that everything is working together to get to the objective as fast as possible with the minimum amount of resistance, and to maintain the element of surprise. If you can reach anywhere in land, how do you protect against that . If you are the enemy, where do you point your guns to stop that kind of advance when the marines can be almost anywhere with the range of that mv22 . That is one of the game changes that we try to identify in the article. It gives that level of that amount of flexibility to the marine corps, that before they really do not have. They are trying to maximize that. Mv22s flying around, conducting air assaults on the mojave, it was quite a sight to see. Spotlightpart of our on 90 scenes series, we are talking with Joe Pappalardo on his cover story in Popular Mechanics. John in colorado, democratic caller. Aller in Popular Mechanics 2011 second edition of its book, attacking nine 11 skeptics, why does it claim that not 19 11 9 11 skepticot one has a background in engineerin . , well, i was hoping to get a september 11 call, because then i can say i dont work on any of that stuff. You will have to talk to other people on the staff about that. Host joe, i should just note for our viewers that there is an organized effort out there by viewers like him who are part of a group who have decided to call in to cspan to talk about what 9 11believe happened on and people can google it and find out the information that they are interested. Let me move on to greg in california, republican caller. Caller good morning, all. Well, i will get this out of the way, people dont google enough to know what is going on, but the government admitted Building Seven was in freefall for over 100 feet host we are ready talked about that. I will move on because we are talking about the future of tactics and the future of war here with Joe Pappalardo of Popular Mechanics. Andy, democratic caller. Caller hi, my question is about the future of war. Architects and engineers called Popular Mechanics out host i will move on. Stephen, kentucky, democratic caller. I was talking about watching the news and they were talking about cutting the budget for the military. I wonder where they get all of the funding for all of this training. They were supposed to be cutting it back. Guest yeah, i actually went before some of that some of the cuts, and a lot of sequestration cuts havent happened yet. They wouldnt cut the pre Deployment Training is my sense, because it is so important to unit cohesion. It would be one of the last things that they actually want to cut, because it has so much utility it is almost like a shakedown for a ship, just to make sure that everyone is working together and is set up. It doesnt cost as much is you might think. All the equipment is actually at the base and maintained by the base. Thate costs are not prohibitive. The flight hours with the aircraft overhead, that might get trimmed because of some the cuts to training. It is yet to be seen how much how deeply these cuts would actually affect things like this, but it is my sense from talking to people their bank that they are not talking to people there that they are not worried about it because reDeployment Training is so important to the entire cycle, and what they would do is probably cut the budget when they come back during the when they do all the repairs and get ready for the next deployment. The pentagon is very leery about deploymentom the pre cycle because that could really lead to trouble in the field. The people i talk to they were concerned overall but they werent concerned that it was going to reach out for 29 palms. It was a little while ago and the budget situation hasnt gotten better, and maybe if i went out there now they might say differently, but when i was there it wasnt a pressing concern. Host stephen, kentucky, democratic caller bank. Stephen, you with us . Caller yes, that was my question. Host oh, im sorry. We will go on to william, alabama, independent caller. Caller yes, i was listening to him talking much raining artillery and ships training artillery and ships. If we have to fight china, artillery and ships are obsolete. We will have to have missiles, missiles, missiles. China has sophisticated summaries and they will knock them ships out before they ever get started. They will reach our ships and everything, and i just wanted to bring that up. Weve got an obsolete army and military. We are going to have the superfast missiles and a lot of them. As china found out in the korean war i was in the korean war on the front lines for nine months, and they got the capacity to do what they want, when they want to read what they want, when they want. Host ok. Guest in a lot of ways he is right. Some of the weaponry that the chinese are working on he was, i think, referring to an antiship ballistic missile, which is very, very dangerous, and some reports say they have already deployed, although that is pretty quick. The reports may be a little bit more advanced than the actual capabilities, but he is right, warfare is going more towards missiles, more towards standoff ranges that are a lot longer. The chinese are really investing in what they call the anti accesstype weaponry. ,t would force the americans to if they were trying to intervene and something in taiwan, for example, it would keep them at bay for longer. They would have to stay out of missile range and cannot get to the objective as quickly and mines worry about my one quibble with what the caller said is that one of the biggest threats in the summary the submarine realm is not that new. Diesel submarines are an older model but they can operate in shallow waters and you can arm them with behravesh with very fast and i should missiles that are hard to defend against very fast antiship missiles that are hard to defend against. It is not like the pentagon is sitting on its hands and not countering this capability. With a selfump jet warplane deck and take off from aree amphibious ships and smaller than Aircraft Carriers and are smaller to hit harder to hit. They dont need a large airfield. If you are facing an enemy that has Ballistic Missiles and cruise missiles what you want the airfield to be a lot smaller. You dont need cargo aircraft landing large artillery pieces, mv22 can bring those. Some of the challenges he is referring to are being addressed in the near term with this equipment. In the long term, missile defense, Hypersonic Missile theyew submarines recently came out with a submarine that could an unmanned submarine that could launch Unmanned Aircraft or unmanned underwater vehicles. These are ways to circumvent the missile range so they can operate safely, getting closer to the chinese mainland. They do sort of have an advantage, because in most of the scenarios they are not the ones protecting power somewhere else. It is sort of in that type of situation, the defender gets certain advantages and that is some of the things he is talking about. Thatsence, he is right, the field is changing, and may not be changing as quickly as he thinks. I dont think the navy is obsolete right now, but the trend line is sort of going against the larger ships and more towards a missileoriented warfare. He is right about that. Host file clerk tweets in guest i think i saw that in star trek once. No, i dont think so. Not obsolete. People in the short term if it there is almost a revulsion ingive the decision to kill the hands of anything that is automated. Some Weapons Systems shoot without asking for humans permission, but usually they try to keep a man in the loop to make that decision. An unmanned vehicle could track a target, aim at a target, be ready to shoot and then hesitate and say, hey, human master, can we do that . If you project these trend lines is of the future far enough, you , orsee very few soldiers very few human beings, actually involved in, because they are operating so many automated systems. I could see that, but i do think there is going to be someone in the loop and i dont think that warfare is going anywhere anytime soon. It is sort of a natural extension of politics and sort of a biological curse almost in human beings. I dont see warfare becoming obsolete because of technology. If anything, people might be more prone to fight because the human cost is decreased. But that is another conjecture. Host jeff, florida, republican caller. Caller my question is about the command structure with the computers being made in china. What is the danger of us losing our command structures . Guest thats a real interesting question. Its a tough one. Inhave written about this the magazine as well not in this article, but we have in the past. One of the problems with the American Military is that it does rely on a lot of offthe shelf parts and a lot of computer models are made in china. For the critical National Security parts, especially with computer chips, they started aur or five years ago trusted Foundry Program to make these really critical parts and make sure that they are constructed not only in america but in american firms that have passed security requirements. As a whole, it is a problem. There could be all sorts of malware in these Computer Systems that are used in everyday military life. Maybe theoblem only upside to that is civilians are using it, everyone is using it. How do you make sure how do you differentiate the valid military target for the malware versus just civilian . The military can almost hide in the mass of other computers so that maybe it wouldnt be targeting, but that is a pretty slender hope. A lot of people are very nervous about that, and again, it is a legitimate concern, and some of the stuff theyre taking they are taking very quietly, and some of the other ones, they need Industry Partners so that not so people like me can see that the doing something about me can seee like that they are doing something about it. It is one of those efforts to make sure that the critical parts are not tainted or dont have anything hidden in their in there for the attack. Is other problem or threat that a lot of the American Military infrastructure is dependent on civilian infrastructure as well. Delay aanted to response around the world, you could shut down the power grid on the west coast of the United States and that would delay a response to get to taiwan or something. A lot of disruptive things they can target here, in the domestic United States or our allies and partners around the world. Those are vulnerabilities, too. I dont have any good answers, but host we are talking to Joe Pappalardo of popular. Echanics, Senior Editor jerry, bellevue, washington. Independent caller. Caller i wanted to ask what you had seen in the mojave practices having to do with uav s, unmanned air vehicles . Personally, i believe that is the future, whether it be star wars, etc. , but taking the human factor from the cockpit and putting it in a hangar somewhere away from the tragedies of war is, i believe, what is going to be the future of war. Guest it was interesting to me to see how little Uav Technology was used in this exercise. And in comparison to afghanistan, for example, where in the command centers they are , ihting for uav attention wasnt in a great position to see it because i was really with the tanks and troops and everything. But you are right, it is a great tool, it is important, it is the future, i believe. But in this training scenario they really wanted to put the people in the position where they have to make decisions. And they werent going to make it any easier for the people the marines on the Ground Training to get the objective taken care of. If there is any sort of decision whether or not you have a uav and share the information, they are probably saying no, because they want to make sure the marines can do it without uavs. There are positions you could shell with artillery and everyone, you would assume, would be dead. But they still need to take that position. They wanted to make sure that everyone got what they needed. Quite honestly, antiUav Technology is spreading not as quickly as uavs, but it is getting there. s are pretty easy to spot, easy to shoot down. You cant talk on them being overhead, you cant count on gps come for that matter come because it will be jammed. You have to count on all of these contingencies. You wont have that to lean on. It was not uavcentric at all, the training that i had observed. It was where the metal meets the meat kind of stuff. One of caller is right, the things theyre working on for the future is lasers to shoot down uavs, even in a moving vehicle. You cant count on these things being overhead for much longer. Host inside the magazine you have a site column where you talk about cargo drones. Explain what they do and their use. Guest guest guest guest kmax is a program that did well in afghanistan. You had marines out in these remote outposts with no roads most of the time, and they need resupply. You dont necessarily want to pass all your helicopters, large helicopters, to do that. They are allowed and you can see them coming. The robotic helicopter can bring supplies to these remote locations copper off and go there. Drop it off and go there. They proved to be incredibly useful, and every time they had a chance to pull them back, the marines said, hey, lets keep them in theater for a while longer. Is incredibly resupplying in the marine corps is vital, because with expeditionary warfare, you dont have a base to go to, you dont have a guarantee of resupply. If you run out of ammo, what do you do . Lood plasma, what have you im sorry, go on. Host what about the robotic pack mules, the issue of supplying the marines . , that is another good program they are working on. It is not as advanced as robotic helicopters, but who knows . They are testing these four legged robots that would follow , a squad ofs, say marines, and carry hundreds and hundreds of pounds of gear. When you look at modern american combat soldiers, they carry so much stuff they can almost not stand up. They have to get out of the helicopter. It is a constant grind on them. The idea is to have something follow the marines, say, on patrol. But what you dont want is someone who is got there head down on a videogame controller operating the robot, because that is one more marine that isnt looking for threats, who cannot operate his rifle. It is not as efficient. What this fourlegged robot can actually follow along you tell it where to go a can follow you directly or it can find its own route. It has a laser radar which can pick out obstacles and climb up on its own and meet you, almost like a dog would. They are testing that right now in different environments. The program has gone a lot farther and a lot faster than i thought it would. I am a robot skeptic in a lot of ways. But it has done very well and i would not be surprised it can go offroad. There are other programs that would have a truck following another truck to sort of automatically have convoys. This thing can go off road, up all kinds of terrain. We will see how it does in these other environments. They will take it to some of the rough training grounds and see how the robot does. Something to keep an eye on. Host we are talking about new tech and tactics for the future of four with Joe Pappalardo of Popular Mechanics. Steve, you are up next. Caller thank you. My question for joe i am a former marine and i am all for the new technology. What are your concerns about the chinese and russian and it ran intoan as far as hacking our missile systems, and iran, they stole a Stealth Bomber from us. I know that the u. S. Has disrupted our Nuclear Program disrupted their Nuclear Program with worms and viruses, but what tactics are the marines using as to say, hey, we conceal this from you anytime we want we can steal this from you anytime we want . Guest that is a great question. It is an emerging field. I dont think it was a bomber, it was a surveillance drone that crashed or was brought down in iran, and they were able to parade it out. Expect more. Isht now, cyber warfare being funded and researched, and no one really knows. It is almost like any other Weapon System that before it actually meets the battlefield, you think it is the game changer, and it is not. World war ii, you thought that battleships would be the future of naval warfare. It turns out the Aircraft Carrier was. Every campaign that his plan has a cyber war component to it now that is land has a cyber war component to it now. Whether it is Unmanned Aircraft that can affect the computers below to shut down the power grid, which is being worked on, or other types of Electronic Warfare two blind some things that the United States is working on to blind the enemy radar. You know that everyone else is doing the same thing and looking in our agreement, the difference being that we are so dependent on that that it could be an achilles heel. They have tried in the beginning with some limited success the air force is trying to take the lead on that. Every combat and command right now having to look at cyber war. I think as the concept sort of matured and the concept of operations of how we would employ it emerges, i think there thought to howf someone could subvert us as well. To me is very, very new. I dont know know what the marines specifically are doing. The best thing they can do in a lot of ways is just dont rely on some of the computerized elements. Just use a radio rather than some sort of more sophisticated communications. There are so many ways to disrupt an attack that if you can hack into a system, it it could really be devastating. You dont have to take down everything, you just have to take down one component. The downside of combined arms as you are all relying on each other and if one system goes down, you have to have contingencies to move without it. It is part of the training also. He is right, i have worries and no solutions on that one because it is a new threat, but he is absolutely right. It is keeping a lot a people awake pentagon and they are putting time and money towards it, but until you see something actually used in the battlefield, you should be very wary about predicting the impact of that. That is sort of my default position. Host on our line for democrats, rose is watching us in new york. Caller thank you for taking my call. The United States has a history of in gauging in war based on engagin in war based on less than perfect information latest example being iraq. And is technology preparations are geared towards existing military factions, and does that tell you anything about the decisions involved in waging future war . Guest i think that the idea that people are always training for the last war, preparing for the last war, and they get sort of blindsided by the next one, is almost always proved true. It is not just intelligence but it is a failure to understand what the best equipment will be that you would need. Mrap rap story story, humvees, Donald Rumsfeld yang lambasted for saying you go to war with the army you have katie was absolutely right. T sounded callous at the time one of the things i ran into researching this story is if other opponents know that counterinsurgency is difficult , and we are moving away from that and we are not mraps, what they use this strategy what they use those what they use those strategies. As in a weak spot . To hit us in a weak spot . The states for that style of warfare, and needs to be maintained. I am not a fan of getting rid of all the mr Popular Mechanics mraps from iraq and afghanistan. They are trying to train for what they think would be another big war instead of a small war like a counterinsurgency. I would like to think that they are flexible enough to be able to do both, to preserve those kinds of lessons. But the really scary emerging threats are all happening on this larger level, with cyber missiles, and we need to rush on thosee brush up two faced the Large Standing Army because for the last decade have been concentrating on the exact opposite. It is a rebalance, and some of the new Weapons Systems, tactics that go along with of those Weapons Systems, hopefully would be useful in both. Right now we have one of the most experienced armies in the world due to the last 10 years, on the rifle man level, and in the air, incredibly experienced, very seasoned. I think that with that sort of experience comes a lot of lessons that they wont part with very easily. That sort of Institutional Knowledge will remain there so that you can build counterinsurgency into the big war strategy and have a meld between the two because that is probably what you would be facing in the field. But you have to be good at both. Exercisesat the itx all about, that if you are facing an enemy with tanks, the only fighting insurgents would be able to have those skills and mindset to be able to face that, what they call highintensity combat. That is where host ok, robert in massachusetts, independent caller. Caller my question concerns funding. We spend about four percent of our gdp on military funding, which is probably the lowest it has been since the second the beginning of the second world war. Do you see ever since sequestration that there will the funding of r d in defunding ofre r d in the near future . Guest yes. I think there are smart ways to cut and dumb ways to cut, and sequestration is not a good way to cut, because it is so indiscriminate. I am not sure that congress and maybe even the pentagon is able to discriminate and do that. That is one of the reasons why sequestration was here to begin with. But yeah, the fear is that the big Weapon Systems that weve 200 million per airplane, and the osprey was a very costly development, and for all of its virtues, it is a beast to maintain, cost a lot of money to maintain. 70 million per plane, 11,000 per flight hour. Operating these systems is going to take up a lot of money, and these are already things that there is enough sunk cost into that they will want to continue them, and the strategy depends on them. If that becomes a priority, then the future of r d becomes a place where it would take a big , and cutting down some of the benefits for servicemen and women is a terrible thing to contemplate. Again, r d, its really easy to say that we dont need that directed energy program. Areank that is a very ripe for cuts. And in another generation you will really see the effects of that. You dont really feel the pain of that now, but you see it in the future. That is a dangerous cycle, but i think the callers fears are actually correct. One of the areas where they will look at cutting deepest and sequestration you have to cut from everywhere, but they have that ability to do that, the pentagon would really look at r d. Host does r d come from inside the pentagon . Who is overseeing this new type of Technology Tactics that you were attacked that you are talking about . And if you can answer quickly because the houses coming in, but how how do they decide they will put the resources into the osprey versus Something Else . Going toah, im not be able to answer that in a short amount of time, but there are different areas that do different research. You have the blue sky stuff, the farthest out timewise and intellectually. And then you have the office of naval research, which does a lot more nearterm kinds of things. They try to graduate the technology from one to the other and tried to convince the services that they would take up the reins of this. A lot of times you develop military technology to a point where it works and it has been proven, but then you need a service to adopt it. A lot of time the r d money kind of falls off, because no one wants to spend money to adopt that program and bring it into the field. An example of a program that is going to be adopted for sure is the unmanned stealth aircraft that recently landed on the Aircraft Carrier host all right, joe come im going to interrupt you, and i apologize, because the house is about to come in. Joe pappalardo with Popular Mechanics. His cover story, the future of for. Tank you for joining us on thank you for joining us on washington journal. Guest thank you, had a good time. Host and now that spending bill with a debate on afghanistan. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute] the speaker. The clerk the speakers room, washington, d. C. , july 24,