to our problems. government has to be lean and its efficient. we believe in individual initiatives, but we also believe in the words of abraham lincoln that government should do what the people what they cannot do better for themselves. . . [applause] if the other side gets the keys, they say they want to get a tax cut to the top 2% -- millionaires and billionaires. they do not have the money. the only way to pay for it is to borrow money from china. they want to cut education by 20%. think about this. we are in the 21st century where everybody knows that the country that educates their people the best is better. do you think china is cutting education by 20%? they are not playing for second place. neither does the united states of america. we play for first place. [applause] that is why harry reid and deana and shelly, that is why democrats in congress helped to take away tens of billions of dollars that were going in unwarranted subsidies to banks and shifted those to find college scholarships for young people all across the country -- millions of young people. millions of young people getting more help to go to college. that is what this election is about. that is the choice. [applause] when we give tax cuts, we want to give tax cuts to middle- class families who need help. they deserved relief. we do not want special interest feedback in the shotgun seat. they have already promised to roll back wall street reform. they promised to roll back health-insurance reform. we refuse to let that happen because i do not want your health care denied just when you need it most because insurance companies are playing games. i do not want you to have to pay for another wall street bailout. i do not want credit card companies to be able to jack up your interest rates whenever they feel like it without giving you notice. that is the old way of doing business. we have a new way of doing business. if we are moving forward without looking back. that is the choice in this election. [applause] we believed in rebuilding our emperor structure. -- infrastructure. i just came into the airport. they are putting people back to work because of harry reid. we need to make sure that we have the best infrastructure in the world. we are not going to have better airports in other countries than here in the united states. we have always had the best infrastructure. we need to continue that. that is the choice in this election. by the way, another choice in this election is making sure social security is there, not just for this generation, but for the next generation. we will not privatize social security on my watch or on harry reid's watch. that is the choice in this election. [applause] let me say this. we have some big problems because the same special interests we have been battling for the last two years are fighting back hard. they are pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into negative advertisements. i'd be seeing negative advertisements out here? you do not even know who is sponsoring these advertisements. they have all these names like "americans for prosperity," and "mothers for motherhood." [laughter] i made that last one up. they are keeping their contributions secret. they do not have the guts to stand up for what they say they believe in. we do not know if it is the oil industry, the insurance companies, speculators -- they will not tell us. they will not say. they do not want you to know who is bankrolling all these negative advertisements. this is not just a threat to democrats, this is a threat to democracy. i the only way to fight in, the only way to match their millions of dollars, is with millions of voices. all those folks to call for change in 2008, we have to fight for change in 2010. [applause] this is where all of you come in. you have to vote, everybody. i want everybody to know, we have early voting here in nevada. if you will vote across the way, if you get in line before 8:00, you can cast your ballot right now. [applause] do not wait. do not wait. if everybody who showed up in 2008 shows up in 2010, we will win this election. [applause] so let me just say this, in 2008 a lot but you got the call, some of you for the very first time. some of you knock on doors. some of you made phone calls. it was a defining moment in our history. you believed that this was a chance for you to make some history. to help finally move america in a better direction. you understood that what happens today was going to shape the lives of our children and grandchildren. that is the reason you got involved. that is why he worked so hard. i note sometimes over the last two years as we have been grinding out change, doing battles, dealing with filibusters, dealing with obstruction, dealing with the "no you cannot" crowd -- you may have gotten discouraged. you think back to election night and the inauguration. you thought, "boy, that was so much fun." maybe you get discouraged at lose heart. as you travel through nevada, d.c. the foreclosures. you think that what you did did not make a difference. but i am here to tell you, do not let anybody tell you that what you did does not matter. because of what you did, there is somebody in nevada who is able to get their cancer treatments without mortgaging their house. because of what you did, there is a small-business owner somewhere that kept their doors open in the depths of recession. because of what you did, there are some of you going to work every day on the construction site. because of what you did, there is a child somewhere that is getting health care. because of what you did, there are 100,000 brave men and women who have come back from iraq. [applause] because of what you did, america is a better place. but we have just begun. we are just in the first quarter. i cannot have you tired now. i cannot have you tired when we are just getting started. look, change has always been hard in this country. this country was founded when the 13 colonies came together in a revolution that nobody believed could happen -- except they believed. they founded this country on ideas that had not been tried before. "we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." nobody believed that the slaves could be freed, except they believed. folks did not believe that women could win the right to vote, except women believed. nobody believed that we could get workers' rights, except workers believed. there were a lot of folks who said we would never give civil rights, but we got civil rights because somebody out there believed. [applause] imagine if our parents, our grandparents, are great- grandparents' had said this was too hard, i am too tired, i am this terrorist, somebody is saying something mean about me. we would not be here today. we got through war and depression. we have made this union more perfect because somebody, somewhere was ready to stand up in the face of uncertainty and difficulty. that is how change has come. that is the spirit we have to restore in 2010. if all of you are going to go out and vote, knock on doors, talking to your friends and neighbors, i promise you we will not just win this election, we will not just elect harry reid, but we are going to restore the american dream -- the vegas dream, the nevada dream for generations to come. god bless you and god bless the united states of america. [applause] ♪ ♪ [song playing "only in america"] ♪ ♪ [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [song playing "higher and higher"] ♪ [playing marvin gaye] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ron angle lican sharo is an opponent. here is an advertisement. >> it is hard to pay for gas and grow trees. if you put it on a credit card, it would probably cover some of it. -- this has been a string of bad luck. washington has not lived up to its responsibilities while you have lived up to yours. ♪ when ourthe moment planet began to heal. let's restore public image as the last best hope on earth. ♪ >> midterm elections are coming of november 2. each night we are showing debates and the fans from around the country. here is our lineup for tonight. next, the candidates running for the senate in wisconsin. then midterm elections and the pennsylvania senate debate. tomorrow on washington journal, christian daugherty from the economic policy institute is showing how each party is trying to help americans improve in this group. the latest on the wikileaks is being discussed. and tumbling will explain the tsa flight program -- tom blank will explain the tsa flight program scheduled to take place shortly. landmark supreme court cases on c-span radio. >> at christmas time in 1965, they decided they would wear small black armbands to express different views they had with regards to the war in vietnam. >> they both at the constitutional rights of students. hear the argument saturday at 6:00 p.m. on c-span radio. it is also online at cspanradio.org >> now the third and final debate for those running for the u.s. senate seat in wisconsin. it took place this evening organized this eveningwisn tv in milwaukee. it is 90 minutes. >> the following is a special presentation. it is in association with milwaukee public television. wisconsin's boys will help shape the nation's agenda. your vote on november 2 will decide who will represent cover state on the national stage. tonight, in their final face-to- face appearance before election day, democratic incumbent russ feingold and republican ron johnson will take questions from citizens in green bay, warsaw, milwaukee. it is all part of this challenge. now from the new home of marquette university law school, two nights a modern writer -- moderator, mike gousha. [applause] >> hello, i'm here to welcome you to a very special event, the upfront town hall challenge. this is moderated by my colleague, 12 news mike gousha. people are here to represent you. election day is november 2nd. perhaps what you here tonight will help you make your decision and the race for u.s. senate. let's join mike gousha and the candidates. special presentation of wisn 12 in association with wispolitics.com. >> hello, everyone i am a journalist to exports public policy. i am also the host of the political affairs program, "upfront," in august, we hosted a the gubernatorial candidate in the republican primary. then it was the democratic candidates. tonight, we are joined by democratic senator russ feingold and his challenger ron johnson. i will be asking them questions for the first months and then we will take questions from citizen groups. they were recruited based on their participation in local communities. we found them by reading letters to the editor, minutes from school board meetings, council meetings. they are republicans, independents, democrats, tea party members. they want answers to the questions. we want to thank them for their participation. some of them are in our audience tonight. my colleague is here with me with a group of citizens from southeastern wisconsin. also dan jones from milwaukee public television is fielding questions from our internet of yours through wispolitics.com and wisn.com. this is a conversation. people tell us that they want to hear more than talking points. the time will go by quickly. we are asking the candidates to answer the questions as directly and as concise as possible. the candidates can speak to each other directly. again, i will play the role of a traffic cop. our goal is to have the candidates address the issues that the citizens groups braced and answer how they would address the toughest challenges. there are no opening statements but each candidate will have a closing statement. we tossed a coin and mr. johnson will go first. i thought that we would be getting a better sense of your world view, what you think about the current state of affairs. mr. johnson, what do you think poses the greatest threat to our nation at this point in history? >> there is no doubt about it, this is the out of control spending and debt going in this country. when i drive around the state, that is the issue. the economy and jobs. we have to get this economy moving. we have to create jobs. people understand that racking up deficits of 1.4 trillion dollars, over three trillion dollars has been added to the debt in the past three years. senator feingold has voted for that. that is unsustainable. they look at that and they see greece and france. they understand that we are on the same path and we need to do something about it. >> senator fine gold, what do you think? >> i think that this is more complicated. i have worked hard to reduce the debt and deficit and i successfully did so with clinton and the republicans despite mr. johnson's advertising which is totally false. we have more challenges. this challenge of jobs is real. we have to create ways to have job creation. there is an international situation out there. one of the greatest threats we have is that al qaeda attacked us and has not been brought under control. our challenges are multiple, they're not just one. >> when i hear you on the campaign trail, it is basically that washington doesn't get it. what evidence do you have? >> we are over $800 billion in additional debt. senator feingold cast the deciding vote for the stimulus package. the government can create long terms of sending jobs and that was the premise that was wrong. it is the private sector that creates long-term, sustainable jobs. that is the point i'm making. this election is a pretty stark choice. a pretty clear choice in terms of the two candidates. senator feingold spent the better part of 30 years in politics as a politician verses myself, 31 years as a manufacturer. i created real jobs. this is a pretty stark difference. >> is there any reason why a career politician is a bad thing? there are others out there. >> the distinction of a to make is what kind of government philosophy does that boston -- politician have? believes that the government is the solution to our problems -- senator feingold believes that the government is the solution to our problems. my philosophy is less government control, spending, taxes. that is a big difference between a career politician. someone who relies on the government versus someone who has traded jobs. >> the truth is that i voted to cut taxes. he said that the recovery bill did nothing. this provided a tax break to 95% of all families in america. the health care bill, this is helping 85,000 small businesses in wisconsin. they will get a tax reduction to help them pay for the health care for their employees. we also passed a tax cut to any business that hires anyone that has been laid off more than 60 days. this will be a $6 billion tax cuts. on all of these issues, i have supported and passed tax cuts. he would like to wipe out that entire agenda. his statement is that the recovery built it and nothing is absolutely false. that is absolutely false and he keeps saying it despite the fact that it is not true. the evidence is that that bill probably prevented a depression and is estimated to have created or preserved 1.5 million jobs. the notion that it did nothing flies in the face of all reality. >> what are the arguments that you hear is that firefighters' jobs are safe, teachers' jobs are safe, what is your response? >> three days before senator feingold cast the vote, he issued a press release that said that in the first year it would create 2.4 million dogs. -- jobs. the fact of the matter is that we are down in jobs. there was far more jobs lost so the net effect was 2.6 million jobs lost. 85,000 just in the state of wisconsin. >> because of the recovery bill? >> if you do the math, they come in at a high cost. those are just temporary jobs. they were not private-sector, self sustaining jobs. those are the jobs that actually fund the government we need. >> you had better tell the people in plymouth, wisconsin. that community work for 11 years to have a new senior center. when the economy tanks, their plans and hopes were dashed. i was with them the other night and they had a celebration. the reason that they're going to have this senior center is because of a $1 million grant from the stimulus package. that is a very conservative community. it was doing the work? this is a private company from sheboygan, wisconsin. they were doing the private work and this is a permanent firm. >> you know what else is permanent? the $800 billion in debt that is passed on to the children and grandchildren. >> this is a philosophy question. i heard you at an event a few weeks ago where you were speaking to a group of commercial realtors and you were telling a story about senator judd gregg who is retiring from new hampshire. you quoted him as saying that you have to understand that the people up here in washington don't get it off, that they don't believe in the free market system and profits. my question is, do you believe that that is true? i would assume that if you are telling the story that that is true. does senator feingold fit into that category? >> certainly when you hear him demonize businesses, that is certainly the implication. it is unfortunate that many people in washington to not understand how the free market works, how private enterprise works. the exhibit of this is the failed stimulus package. what they should have done, they should have come in and said that these tax increases that are scheduled, we will not increase taxes. we will make those tax breaks permanent. that would provide to the certainty that would have cost consumers to start thinking about spending and that business people would have thought that maybe this economy will start recovering. by the way, that is what creates real jobs. that is what gives people incentives. they think the economy will grow and the demands will increase. to thousand dollars, $3,000 tax credit, that is not what prompted business person to create a job. >> how can someone say and $800 billion bill that includes a $250 billion tax cut is somehow a waste of money or a ballooning of the deficit? the fact is that that was a tax cut. you have never confessed that the bill had a tax cut because you're so committed to pretend that it did nothing. you cannot even it meant that 95% of all families got a tax cut. -- you cannot even admit. i talked to a guy in lake geneva. he said that he added jobs because of the tax cuts. this is literally saying, if you do this, we will give you a tax cut, to a business. they will have a tax credit to stimulate a more of this. on every item here that has to do with tax cuts on the last three years, he is against them and i am for them. isthere's more to what he saying. he can make his argument for himself. your critics would say that when he talks about an anti business attitude, he says, look at the things that ross fine gold has done. they will say several. they will say that he has not voted for wall street regulations. -- look at the things that russ feingold has done. he would like to regulate political advertising, trade. this is a person who would like more government control in our lives. >> that is false. >> that is a true statement. >> it is true that i don't favor the larger institutions. i favor main street. i stood against any effort to try to let wall street make their own rules because this would hurt local banks and institutions. this bill does not do the job of regulating wall street adequately and yet you have over regulation of the banks and credit providers here in wisconsin. we just passed a bill that is providing credit with some help from the government to these banks. this is making an enormous difference. my issue is that i favor the small citizens and the main street businesses and of course some of the big companies. you can ask the people at harley-davidson, the organic farmers, any kind business in the state whether i have worked to try to help them and i have. when certain businesses start having a stranglehold over parts of our economy like wall street or the insurance companies, whom mr. johnson will defend any time, they will destroy small businesses. what led me to the health care bill, the constant complaints from citizens who said that the insurance company was destroying their ability to cover their own employees. that is why i fight for them. >> first of all, i am a small business person. i am main street. i pay about half a million dollars to insurance companies. i want to make sure that we can lower costs. the reason that the tax cuts did not work in the stimulus package is that there's nothing else that this administration did. everything else that has been done has created uncertainty in our economy. when you spend $800 billion, you will eventually have to take money. inflation will explode. again, they took the $800 billion and they threw it at the wall hoping it would create jobs and then they spent the next year trying to take over 1/6 of the economy. part of the provisions is the addition of more irs agents. a new regulation that requires small business owners to fill out a form that they give more than $500 a year to. they did not say that the taxes were going to increase. uncertainty. they have not taken captain trade off the table. from the standpoint of a business person, will we have our jobs? -- they have not taken cap and trade off the table. there is no certainty and stability. >> he smiled when he said main street. why? >> he does not know he is talking about. he does not have the scope of experience i have around the state. he might know his own business. i talk to the people producing fences. he said, it is going well for him. he is getting orders much later than the year. you find the same thing in other places. there are certain businesses that are down. you go to o'brien and -- you go to o'brien and oshkosh. they are able to put their financing together. there is a lot of positive energy are there. the worst in the weekend do is to press it. even though it is not fast enough, the private employment in this country has gone up every single month for nine months. the wisconsin unemployment rate is about 1.5 points lower than the national average. we can sit here and say that nothing good has happened but once again this is not the truth. there are some good things happening and we need to encourage those things, concurs things like water technology so that this can be the silicon valley of water. i have been engaged to do this. i am the candidate who is taking the time to learn about all the different kinds of businesses in the state. he has a very narrow focus on his own business and he does not have the experience. >> i have talked to all kinds of businesses. i have been doing this full- time for six months. i have visited countless businesses. every time i asked about this, i have yet to have one person who said that this has created jobs. not one person says that this will have any effect at all. >> our citizens groups have questions. we will begin with pam. why don't you go ahead with your questions? >> this is an extension we have been talking about. this is a question that could make or break it. >> what role if any do you feel that federal housing policy played in the economic collapse? what role do you feel that federal housing policy should play? >> if you go back to what actually created a housing bauble, it was the federal government housing banks. they work moaning to people who cannot afford the homes. they said, don't worry about this. we will have fannie mae and freddie mac guarantee those tom's. -- those homes. they had every incentive to offload the is. the beginning of our economic problem was relieved of this was caused by washington. fortunately, this was paid for by the american taxpayer. >> he says that government is responsible. >> that is very convenient. he let everyone else involved off the hook. wall street had something to do with this itself. the use of derivatives, these to not just relate to housing. the fact that the glass-stiegel act was overturned was critical. i was one of 8 senators to vote against it. that is a -- no one was serious about this issue believes that this was just about housing. however, i do think that we need reforming. when john mccain brought up the amendment on the financial regulation bill and said that we should include these gse's was in -- within the category of institutions, i was one of only two democrats to vote with him. i said, that's right. they might have played a role but to this strange any credibility to say that this is only because of that. >> i did not say it was only. the big banks certainly played a role. the fact of the matter is that congress's reaction to this thing was a 2300 page bill that did not even addressed the problems of the fannie and freddie. we had an entity that was turned too big to fail. regulation already failed. >> did they get the answer they were looking for? >> that may ask the person to ask a question. >> the answer to the first part but the second part is that does housing policy play a role in the economy? >> the housing sector will. this will have to work its way out. to be foreclosed on. what we need to do is to remove all the other uncertainty. this is caused by this administration's policies. this was what the senator passed for the housing and a stimulus bill. we don't want to increase taxes. we have to remove that uncertainty. >> that will be critical. mr. johnson says he is willing to put the mortgage interest on the table. that is unacceptable to me and that is a tax increase. that will have a devastating impact on housing and the ability to stimulate the housing market. i've never considered the possibility of getting rid of the mortgage interest production. >> that is not true. i was talking about that we need tax -- >> i will go to green bay and tammy eliot we are continuing down the same path as the decisions made and what we have learned. >> the securities and exchange commission was created in 1934 on the heels of the great depression and it has primary responsibility for enforcing the federal securities laws and laws regulating the securities industry. i have howard brown here with a question. >> i have a question, i asked them to put themselves in the position of front-line government officials. if you were the chairmen of the sec, how would you expect wall street to self regulate? how would you direct the agency to to a more effective job of achieving its mission? >> of course, i would not expect or think that wall and street itself regulate. that is essentially what happened after the repeal of glass-stiegel. it was like the ok corral and the federal regulators to not do their job properly. the problem is that having regulation often does not work. their knees to be absolute rules preventing certain things from happening. too, they get regulated between all the back-and-forth between lobbyists being hired. 8 i was the only democrat to vote against this bill because it did not meet basic rules. he did not get rid of the too big to fail institutions. you cannot have this. we need to get back to the rules to make sure that investment houses and banks are not allowed to intermingle. that distinction was critical. the fact that it was lost is important. i think that the regulators can do it very important job but without those provisions, that becomes difficult. >> i think that we are close to agreement on this. obviously, banks cannot self regulate. we need regulation. what happened the regulation bill, this did not address the problem. i can, we have antitrust laws on the books. the fact that any entity became too big to fail this proves that the regulation failed. had been in this position, i would have been looking back when the banks were operating properly. rather than write a new regulation, i would have looked at what works. glass-stiegel was put in place after the depression. that works pretty well. >> we will go to channel 27 in madison. >> we had a good discussion about social security couple of weeks ago. it started with someone mentioning that they had heard the latest target date for it to run out of money is 2037 according to the social security board of trustees. then we were talking about that many people had heard and talk about experts who said that relatively minor changes relative to running out of money means that it could not run out of money. making changes now to keep social security solvent. if so, what specific changes would you support? >> be specific. this is a lot of you here on the campaign. >> promises have been made to seniors. the people who have retired and about to retire. we have every responsibility to honor our responsibilities. these problems with social 30 have been known for decades. instead of addressing the problem, senator feingold used this as a political football. the system has taken into 0.2 trillion dollars in taxes. win and you talk about social security being solved until 2039, that is based on the treasury bills. this is no more than an additional claim on the american taxpayer. the american taxpayer was taxed once to the tune of 2.2 trillion dollars. >> what do we do? >> we need to look at all the options except i would not agree to a job-killing payroll increase and i would never force preposition on anyone. all the other options we have on the table would be a mixture of all of those in terms of how you would make this sustainable. in terms of talking to young people, they don't even think that there would be social security for them so that there would be a receptive audience for changes. >> where come from, saying that all options on the table is not constitute being a specific. mr. johnson declined to be your senator and he will not tell you what he wants to do on jobs or to fix the health care system. on this one, this is almost incredible that he cannot answer your question. i will answer your question. i think we need to raise the payroll tax of all to protect upper income people. this needs to be about 106,000 to help fund social security. the reason that this fund is solvent despite your scare tactics is that this was done well before i was involved in politics. they said, we will have to raise the level that comes out of your payroll. i came back and started working in madison. this was about 60,000. now this is 106,000. i have been in every county in the state. there is almost never a listening session. i would either take this completely off or raise it to the level of the salaries of members of congress. >> different government philosophy. i believe that if you tax people you will harm the economy. our job is to get the economy going. we have to move towards a growth agenda. >> let me go back -- >> he loves to insulate himself from the privatization charge but the words "all options on the table," means that he is open to some kind of privatization. he said that everyone who is over 65 we will keep the promises on. what about everyone in this room? what about those who are 30, 40, who have been paying? he said he would be open to the idea of volunteering privatization for certain accounts. i oppose that. i oppose proposition and always. i'm specific on how i would fix this. >> let me tell you why young people would possibly consider as an option putting money into their own accounts. that is because senator find gold and his colleagues took money and they spend it and now it is gone. >> you had a follow-up. go-ahead. >> i have two questions. one, about half of the social security looks like. if they privatized, they would not be getting any money because it would not be putting any money into this. my understanding is that the social security changes that are done under president reagan were to create a surplus which was then borrowed, put into treasury bonds which paid interest back to the social security trust fund. if the government used that money for a variety of things. if they had not borrowed that from the social security fund, they would have had to have part this from the chinese or other creditors. when the money was repaid, this would have been paid not to the social security fund but to the chinese. >> it is understanding what that trust fund really is. if you have $20, you spend that on dinner and then you write yourself and i know you, do you really have an asset? -- and you write yourself an iou. when the federal government does this big, that is simply a claim on taxpayers. the federal government already taxed us once in order to reclaim those treasuries, you will have to tax us a second time. >> mr. johnson has completely mischaracterized my record. i have been trying to prevent this. remember when al gore was made fun out because he wanted to create a lock box. we have not passed this because there are people here who want to play games with the money. i will not tolerate that. people with disabilities need to be included in this program. >> you are running an advertisement where you have all of these objects on the table and you run your hands across them and say that these are off the table. >> i simply said that privatization is off the table. he has stated that he is willing to be open to some kind of proposition and i have said for me, that is off the table. that is -- >> let me take our next question. we have a couple of questions from people who are watching this. >> we have been getting some great questions from all over the state. in a capitalist society, the basic goal of a business to make a profit. would people with this goal the good running our government? why or why not? >> what makes that necessarily a transferable skill? >> we need a different perspective in washington. we have an ad that says that in the u.s. senate, there are 100 senators. there are 57 attorneys. there are zero manufacturers. we are talking about budgets in excess of 3.5 trillion dollars. only a business person owned -- understands the discipline. i a need to balance the budget. that is the engine for economic growth, a surplus. i understand that. i'm afraid wait too many career politicians do not understand because they never operated as a business. their only perspective is writing rules, regulations, imposing taxes. we just need a difrent perspective. >> i have worked with a lot of business people like mark warner, frank lautenberg, various successful business people. herb kohl took a look at the health care bill and he said, you bet. he said that is the right thing to do. you look at the recovery act, with his business experience and background he said that this is the right thing to do. what is wrong with his business judgment? >> they have failed. the stimulus package failed. the health care bill has taken $500 billion away from medicare. we are putting 16,000 additional irs agents. this is designed to lead to a government takeover of the health care system. >> he refuses to answer the question which how do you justify this argument that business people bring a perspective that these to the conclusion that you would not vote for those bills when herb kohl is one of the most successful business people in the history of the station. about -- how do you argue that he has the market cornered on business experience? . . >> i agree on that question with john. there is very little evidence for bandwagon effect in american politics. >> i would like to address this to the panel. in 1982, the democrats came back and won 26 seats and took from that experience that ronald reagan was an accident and all they had to do was returned in 1984. walter mondale was the embodiment of the great society. you can say the republicans did similar in 1994. they nominated bob dole. he was the quintessential republican. given the dynamic of this campaign, what lessons do you think the two parties, especially the republicans, will take from this election and looking forward to 2012? >> i think there will be two camps in the republican -- extremely conservative tea party republicans will take the conservation -- the confirmation of their thesis of 2008 was a rejection of republicans for not being conservative enough. more of the same, the enthusiastic, aggressive rhetoric. a return to what could be considered to be unrestricted -- unroot constructed -- unreconstructed cold water. -- goldwater. they need to harness, but not become involved with the party conservatism because they will not yet been convinced that would be a sufficient message to carry a majority of the electorate when republicans are no longer purely the out party. i think what you will see in 2012 is a proxy war between these two camps, translating one into a lasting majority. >> i think there will be some different plots that there are times. the immediate aftermath of the election, i do not think the president and democrats appreciate what it will pull back. whatever the size of the game it will be bad. the question for the president will be, what did you learn from this election? bill clinton answered that argument and said he was moving to the middle. ultimately he rallied in part because of the class with the republican congress. "all that? there is the question of will there be overreached by the republicans. we have batted that around in the sessions. will they try to be more strategic like they were in 1995? will they push forward and have a big confrontation? whether they add that reaction or not, i think it is hard to tell. in 2006 democrats were motivated. they thought they could change the course of the war. they wanted to implement the election message of 2006. the atmosphere was quite good for democrats in 2008. it did not turn on them. that is the thing to watch for. the election is a midterm election. it does not have that much to do with presidential election results. the underlying conditions have more to do with it. it the economy is much better, it will be better for obama. >> i take it will be the sort of big republican victory that will be likely. there is a pretty good indication that voters have rejected the policies of the republic -- of the obama democrats. i do not think they will necessarily be for big spending cut policies. to think itclined may be an indication of that, but i do not think that is clear. it is a mistake to do straight line extrapolations from the 2004 elections by karl rove going out forever. it would be a mistake to do a straight line extra appellation of 2008. james carville said we had democratic dominance ahead. it turned out to be 40 weeks. it would be a mistake to do these. i remember in 1982, here is where the bulls were. here was the public. if that would have stayed like that, walter mondale would have won a big victory for president. things did not change. as i recall, the first two quarters of 1983, you have an economic growth in the 7% to 9% variety. things suddenly started to move and change as the 1984 reagan advertisements said "it is morning in america." i am not hearing anybody in the economic realm projecting that kind of economic growth. perhaps we will have yet despite the lack of prognostications. i think there is still a lot of outcomes possible for 2012 for a variety of reasons. republicans, in my view, should address public policy issues in a serious way. the states will provide opportunities and important laboratories for that, not only physically -- because a state with the vessel's size of california has a substantial macroeconomic and that, but also in the health care realm. >> with respect to president obama, one thing we need to keep in mind is that after this election he needs to do everything he can to make sure that there is not a nuisance challenge to him in the democratic primary. every president that gets challenged, even if it is a moderately serious nuisance candidate, ends up losing reelection in the modern era. we noted the base is extremely unhappy part with the president -- with the president. they do not think he went far enough. if he were to try to triangulate -- one of the reasons that the progressive race rallied around obama is that he was the anti- clinton. if president obama wants to learn the lesson that clinton triangulation is the way to go, i think you would see an outrage coming from the progressive base of the democratic party. he would be sure to attract a serious or nuisance primary challenge that would distract his attention during the crucial election face. he needs to make sure that does not happen. i think that means triangulation will not be on the agenda. >> you have the ability to clip and share our programs with your friends. that includes more than 100 debates we have erred on c-span. if you are new to it all, what's the tutorial on our website. surge, blind, and share with the c-span video library. -- search, find, and share with the c-span video library. >> the midterm elections are less than two weeks away. here's our campaign lineup for this morning. next, a debate on the pennsylvania senate race. then president obama at a rally for harry reid in las vegas. now, a debate in the pennsylvania senate race. the candidates are republican pat toomey and democrat russell says that. -- sestak. >> good evening, everyone. it is great to have you with us for this u.s. senate debate. arlen specter will no longer be the incumbent. i am david johnson. this is the senate debate between the republican, pat toomey and the democrat, joe sestak. we have had a coin flip to decide he would go first. the answers and the closing and openings will be one minute. all of the questions will come from me as well as our space book page. we set our camera to downtown pittsburgh this week and at some videotape questions from you, pittsburg residents and those who will be voting. let's get things started. we began with congressman joe sestak. >> thank you for tonight's debate. we know the challenges for our state and the nation. we have a different set of values on how to approach those challenges. we believe the answer can be felled by giving breaks to large corporations, but with consequences for the middle class for us. my income from 31 years breezed problem solvers. we have to face our problems with practical solutions. we obviously want to focus on small businesses and the middle class that they might prosper and had the opportunity. i am standing here tonight because i was asked to by my party. i believe we are the party of principle. i am what to be the independent representative of pennsylvania. that is the choice we have in this election. >> thank you. thank you. i am 9 >> i got into this race because i am concerned that the federal government is taking us down the wrong track. we are heading down the wrong path, a pact with way too much government. i looked at the 18 months -- serial bailouts up ailing companies, spending money on a sale -- scale i never thought possible. yet in a big gap in trade energy tax and bills that the night workers a secret ballot, is it any wonder we do not have a recovery? is it any wonder we are not creating jobs? my opponent has been in washington the last four years. he voted for every item on that agenda lists. his only criticism is it has not gone far enough. we can do better. we need to get government spending under control, keep taxes low, and encourage job growth so we can add the economy that we need. >> you to what the words right out of my mouth. i will open with the first question. i want to talk to you about not only your party labels, but the labels you get yourselves, that you get one another, the district since -- the differences between you ideologically. let me start with you, mr. toomey. you say that he is conservative in your liberal. >> do you agree with that? i would not call it conservative, but i agree he is on the fringe of his party. i have yet to meet a one of them being a liberal. we tend to believe when you are on the ground in afghanistan, we do not believe -- we do not breed liberals or conservatives. when i got to washington, we had to clean up the mess that had been put in place by congressmen toomey and his party. liberals force yourself. -- you reject "liberal" for yourself. you did not call yourself a liberal? >> look at my voting record. i was in the middle of the democratic party. john murtha voted more times with the majority party then i will -- then i did -- than i did. i found myself pretty much of a pragmast congressman toomey head "club for growth." he bled personal attack ads against republicans trying to get out of his own party. it cannot work with those in -- if you cannot work with those in your own party, how can you work with the rest of us? that senate is not working together. >> moderate? >> mainstrea independent. >> is iberal" a bad word? >> no. i had to stand up for that to get here tonight. >> the only time he has stood up to his party was to promote his own career. if y look at the actual record, it might be that he is the st liberal admiral, maybe th a progressive. that is the euphemism they used to describe themselves. most pennsylvanian do not share their liberal views. last year, joe voted with nancy pelosi 100% of the time on evything. he has accepted the entire agenda, every item that i went through, his only criticism has bid that they do not go far enough. he vot for the stimulus bill. over $800 billion of money that we do not have. his criticism was is that it should have been $1 trillion. he voted for every single bailout even after a majority of the house voted to end t.a.r.p. he was voting to keep tarp go wing. he introduced his own bailout bill that would force them to -- force taxpayers to build underwater mortgages. -- bailout underwater mortgages. cap and trade -- it would ruin pennsylvania in general but would devastate particularly in western pennsylvania. he voted for it. he said it did not go far enough. the health care bill, too, he was in on. on every single issue -- he is to the left of the conservative democrat. >> you use the word extreme. do you believe he is extreme? >> let me make clear. congressman toomey is extreme on the policy. one of the zaniness ideas i have ever heard is -- he said he wants to eliminate all taxes for corporations. he says borrowing from america's -- buying american is an unfortuna contingency. he noted that if you're corp. -- you're a corporation -- is it if you close your factory and fire your workers and invest in a factory in china, that when you import cheap goods your profits are not taxed. he cald it a gift to us. he says in his book that it is open "creative destruction." -- that is "greeted destruction." hundreds and thousands of jobs would be lost -- that is "to creative destruction." hundreds and thousands of jobs would be lost. it is extreme policy. >> there is no question. joe is well to the left. >> extreme i an extreme word. >> it is appropriate. >> i would recommend people buy my book. not the least of which, because i like to have the royalties. you will find out what is in a. what is in it instead of what joe says about it. government d economic freedom gives us prosperity. now on taxes, i think wehould lower the top corporate tax rate from 35% and we have today in -- that we have today, that is the highest in the world, i think we -- the second-highest in the industrial world, second only to japan, and they are in the process of lowering theirs -- i think we ought to lower it to 25%. then we would be able to compete better with our trading partners. if we do not do this, then go down the road that he prefers to raise taxes, then america comes a less competitive place, a place where people will not want to headquartered their business. we will lose jobs when companies go overseas. >> let's talk about the stimulus andhether you think it is working. mr. toomey, i will start with you. i think i know the answer. why do you not think it is working? it has only been a few months. >> it has been well over a year. >> the president has not been in office that long. >> he has been in office for over a year-and-a-half. we were told if they got their stimulus bill toll, the -- stimulus bill passed, the unemployment rate will never go above 8%. it went over 10%. where are the jobs? where is the growth? it is a flawed concept. the idea of borrowing and spending federal money is going to generate prosperity is just a huge fallacy. they are taking money out of the private sector and allowing politicians to spend it. that does not create growth. look at the things that are in the bill. there is $31 million in that th bill to build a spring training facility for the arizona diamondbacks and the colorado rockies. i am a big fan of baseball. i'm counting on the phillies making it to the world series. i think every team needs a spring training facility. how about the owners pay for it? $11 million is for microsoft to build a bridge across a highway, where the richest companies in the world. -- microsoft is one of the richest companies in the world. josestak voted for that bill. he is the only guy in america who think it should of been $1 trillion. -- who thinks it should have en 100 -- $1 trillion. rather than spend $800 million -- billion that we did not have there would have been a better way to do it. we would not have had to look--- ready programs. there would have been better ways to deal with it. >> i know you voted for it. unemployment is still high. he makes some points. why do you think it is working? hon>> i arrived in congress the year the recession began. we were headed to a depression. mr. bush called upon us to help. mr. paulson did. i'm reminded of my very first job in the united states navy during the vietnam war. i was in the navy during vietnam. we lost 3 million americans that lost their jobs. in the first three months during mr. obama's term, we lost another 3 million. and the past few months we have created 8 million. -- created a million jobs. toomey 00 -- said we -- we would have had a slightly harder down if we have not done anything. anothe8 million americans would have lost their jobs. he is right. we wanted to do something else. i had wanted to work with republicans and say that we could get tax credits for small businesses. a 15% tax credit for every small business. we would have created another million jobs. it was not perfect. i wanted to work with republicans to focus washington, d.c., on small businesses. congressman toomey said we should have given the money to corporations. a 66% of all corporations in america already pay no taxes. he was to eliminate all taxes? -- he wants to eliminate all taxes? how can you go below zero? everyone watching tonit in a working family pays more than a fortune 500 corporation. now he wants to eliminate all taxes? -- taxes for corporations after having voted thatif you actually invest in a -- that if you actually invest in a factory in china, they are not taxed. that is why he has extreme policies. -- that is quite an extreme policy. >> we also have questions from a videotape. we took a camera to the streets of pittsburgh. let's hear the first of those. >> i am from pennsylvania. what is your stance on shell and dlling? -- marcellus shale drilling? are you for or against it? why? >> did you hear it? >> i've heard it. >> not just are you for or against it, but taxing it? >> we have an opportunity to do something i think is very exciting with the natural gas. if you add that the energy that -- add up the energy that is in the gas, it is equal to half of oil in saudia arabia. -- in saudi arabia. it is a staggering amount of energy. it is right here in pennsylvania. it will not go anywhere. penn state did atudy. they did some research. they predicted over the next 10 years the development of this cod create jobs. -- this could generate 250,000 new jobs in pennsylvania. it is not just the develment of the gas itself. if this entire industries that need this. -- it i entire industries that need to locate near the source of natural gas. this is a huge economic opportunity. it is the biggest economic opportunity for pennsylvania in 100 years. we need to do this in a way that will be safe for the environment. we can do this. i met with the secretary of pennsylvia's department of environmental protection to get his input on the challenges and opportunities. we know how to do this safely. we know how to do this responsibly. we need to make sure they have the resources and manpower to regulate this properly so it is done in a responsible action. -- in a responsible fashion. joe says that takes the extreme view and calls for complete moratorium on all drilling -- joe sestak takes the extreme view and calls for a complete moratorium on all drilling. no other elected official that i know of has called for a moratorium. no one in congress that i know of calls for this. th is an example of how extreme it is. >> would you tax it? >> is likely there will be a tax. that is a common approach. >> do you believe it should be? >> that is a decision for harrisburg. i think it is likely it will eventually happen. it is not a decision for me. >> should marcellus shale be taxed? >> yes. the congressman said it well. i know that governor rendell does want to do what you said. i am an independent. we need practical solutions. i patrolled the oil lanes i the persian gulf. i am tired of sending men and women overseas in order to protect a big oil. this is what it is about. do we need to drill? you bet we do. this is a bone. on.bon let's do it right. that is how i learned to do things in the navy. seven counties have had their drinking water contaminated already. the federal environmental protection agency is not allowed to know the chemicals that are pouring into the place. these are firms from japan. 85% of the workers come from outside the states. before we do it more, let's get it right. let's make sure we know what is in our water before more unties are building it. -- before more counties are drilled in. 15 states with the largest natural gas in america puts a 5% tax on it. we should get that tax and alleviate our seniors tax burden and repair our roads. i want toake sure that, ascongressman toomey said he thinks we should drill in lake erie. he says any regulation of oil companies is nearly criminal. let's do it practically. let's make sure we take the advantage of this. >> i never said we should drill in lake erie. this shows how joe is very extreme and to the left of the entire consensus of the democrats. he thinks the epa needs additional regulatory overlay. the epa already thoroughly regulates this. he calls for a complete potential job creator ini do not understand that. >> i want to make sure that 85% of the workers from outside, bulet's make sure our community colleges train them. those should be our workers. the ruling must once we start it right. -- drill we must once we start it right. >> let's go to r first facebook question. what makes you mo qualified than your opponent? >> i appreciate the background an experience that congressman toomey has. but we want someone who understands the value of main street pennsylvanian. -- of the main street pennsylvanian. he supports any programs that support wall street. we need support ones that -- need to support one is that support pennsylvania and the middle class. they drive as forward. -- they drive us forward. i learned to work across the aisle. i was taken with the endorsement i received. it was the ability to work across the aisle. in the navy, a you learn about accountability. i did not run for my congressional seat. i stood up to my party. it is not about my job. it is about making sure the people's jobs are taking care of. i want to bring my experience in the military and accountability. i want to make sure we refocus washington, d.c., and pennsylvania ends -- on pennsylvanians, not special interests. >> thank you. mr. toomey? >> i think it is the sum of my life experiences. i was born into a working-class family. my father was a union worker. my mother was a part-time church secretary. there were six of us kids. we were a close family. we did not have much growing up. we are still a really close family. it was a wonderful upbringing. i was a lucky kid. i went to a good school. i'm the only candidate that has actually created jobs in this race. i started a small business with my brothers in allentown. we opened a restaurant and hired hundreds of workers. i think this is a time when we badly need people in washington with some busiss experience excessivestand that government regulation and taxes will actually hurt our ability to create jobs. >> we have a huge budget deficit. what taxes would you like to see cut? mr. toomey. i will get to budget cuts in a second. the specific. -- be specific about which taxes you would like to cut. >> there are too big chaenges that we face -- two are big challenges we face. one is to create maximum growth to bring people back to work. i mentioned my dad as a union worker. there were times when a union called a strike. when they called a strike, my dawas out the work. -- was out of work. those are times ofnormous anxiety. especially for my dad. my dad knew that eventually the strike was over into be able to get back to work. -- the strike would be over and he would be able to go back to work. my heart without the people now -- my heart goes out to the people now who lost their jobs. they do not have a job to go back to. we have to make sure we maximize economic growth and job creation. it has to come from the private sector. private taxes will inhibit our ability to do this. >> i am getting to that. i think we need to make the 2003 tax cut permanent for everybody. dole announced that raising -- joel acknowledge in december of last year that raising taxes during hard times is a bad idea. he was right them. -- he was right then. and forced to become a he has unfortunately, he has changed his mind now. i would take the top corporate tax rate and lower it to 25%. out also lower the capital gains -- i would also lower the capital gains rate. the president has announced a -- acknowledged that lowering capital gains is a job creator. he wanted restrictive. i want to probably create those jobs. -- he wants it restricted. i want to broadly create those jobs. >> would you cut taxes? if so, which ones? >> i believe washington has to change the focus on taxes. toomey says to eliminate all corporate taxes. he vote -- he would vote that the profits in china do not have to be taxed. what i would do is it your capital gains tax. -- what i would do is a zero capital gains taxif you invest in a small -- tax if you invest in a small business, it creates 80% of all jobs. if we gave a 15% tax credit to every small business for every new payroll jobs they create it, -- payroll job they created, we would create 5 million jobs in two years. i never got my advanc degree -- got to use my advanced degree until i got to congress. in the navy, i did not need it. here is what else. the bush tax cut, we need to extend them. it is my vote that we would not -- it was my vote against the chairman that gave a 210 to 210 tie, that we would not go home to extend the middle house tax cuts. -- middle-class tax cuts. toomey congressman said that let's at least get a middle- class tax cut. he went on television and said, not unless the very rich -- the top 1% alsoet their tax -- >> can you respond to that quickly? >> joe has no experience in business. he did not understand the consequences. -- he does not understand the consequences of the really bad policies he has proposed. he has an idea about small businesses create jobs. he did not realizeall the -- the problem is he does not realize all the damage that they have done to our economic environment is never going to offset thit. the reality a much higher health-care costs. the threat of higher taxes and higher energy costs. there is a huge energy tax he advocated in the cap and ade bill. when small businesses are faced with all of those threat, a tax credit to hire a worker will not get them to do it. there are bigger weight on their -- negative weights on their shoulders that will prevent that. it helps to get some experience in business. you can undersnd what the decision making processes for the entrepreneur -- process is for an entrepreneur. >> you are sitting you would cut -- saying you would cut some very quickly? >> yes. but keep in mind that when toomey congressmen was on the -- congressman toomey was on the small business committee, and he slapped the business administration in half so the loans used to go to small- business men and women, he voted there had to be a $3,000 fee and then the loans got cut dramatically. when he said he invested in a small business, he was actually working r a chinese billionaire in china. under oath he said he never had a handn experience in my small business. he said that he never had hands- on experience in his small business. which one is it? >> joe knows very well what it is i had to reestablishment. -- what it is. i had three establishments. one of them i delegated responsibility. -- well what it is that i did. i had two establishments. one of them i delegated responsibility. i had one of my brothers running them. joe knows very well that i was a small businessman for many years. he knows that i was in their creating jobs, running my restaurants. this is a silly destruction. we need to talk about how to get the economy moving again. the problem is the weight that joe is imposing through the failed policie joe is devoted to these bad policies. the bailout when two giant banks. i was opposed to all of the bailout. who do think is going to pay for those bailouts? >> hold on. you can answer. you vote in favor of some type of tax cut. -- you are both in favor of some type of tax cuts. they are great, but they do not reduce -- >> joe is in favor of a net tax increase. >> hold on. if you are going to reduce the deficit, cutting taxes alone will not do it. you must have in mind some programs. whatrograms? can you answer what programs you would like to cut? >> first off, what is most important and at i voted for was a government that had to live within its means. if you want a new program, cut another one. congressmen toomey voted to throw it out the window in 2001. when he left congress, we had the largest deficit in the history of america. he went on television and said deficits aren't important. the debt doubled during the bush-toomey era. that is back. we also need a cap on discretionary spending. you need to prioritize. there are items to do. toomey congressman voted against the entire [unintelligible] -- the entire transportation bill twi. he voted against the veterans administration. there's a better approach. let me give you a couple of examples. and armed services, a f-the22 -- -- in the armed services, the f-22, we shouldn't buy any more. there is no more soviet union. 65 ceos have a larger market value. the navy could not afford 55 submarines. in educaon, the scholarships are duplicative of early start. they tend to go to those who are not needy. there is a smart way and practical way to do this. you do not just slash and burn and say q things about cutting taxes and government. what is he going to cut? we know that social security is on the table. >> let's ask him. >> this is amazing. he voted for every single bailout. he introduced additional bailout the lacoste 100 billion -- which would cost $100 billion additional. he voted for the stimulus. he is pretending he wants to reduce spending. this is unbelievable. let's talk about deficits. during the six years i was in the house, which ended six years ago, the average budget deficit was 7/10 of 1% of our economy. that are now roughly 10% -- joe is now voting for defits that are now roughly 10% of our economy. that is 15 times bigger. we're running $1.50 trillion deficit and he says we have not spent enough. this is extreme policy and it is dangerous. >> give me an idea what you a kite. -- of what you would cut. >> i would end all these bailout. i want to ban earmarks. earmarks' are very wasteful. they are pernicious and very wasteful. it is where they tried to bribe constituents with their own money. th lorded over people. -- they lord it over people. they hand out a big check and take a picture. they are spending taxpayer money. there were 123 oppornities joe for to vote to strip out remarks -- for him to vote to strip out individual wasteful year -- earmarks from the appropriation bill. he voted for 122 out of 123. this is no effort to cut out wasteful spending. >> you brought this up. you are knowing for showing up with a big check in hand. you would end that? >> that is what i am saying. -- pennsylvanians understand that this is how we got into this mess. we are spending way too much money. when we have a budget under control, when our fiscal house isn order -- we are getting tax is lower. they will be much better off. >> thank you. of course he does not want to remaining portion of the stimulus to continue. the heavy bulk of that middle class tax andcut, he said he -- the heavy book of that is middle-class tax cuts. he said he would have -- would give them to corporations. 66% of corporations do not pay u.s. taxes. i'm the only one appear with up here - i am the only one up here with legislation to end earmarks. we have to control our spending. i want a law that requires if you want to do programs, cut another one. rememberin the gdp during the bush-toomey era, it is the slowest growth since world war ii. zeroobs were created. during the clinton era, we had the largest expansion. 23 million jobs were done. congressman toomey renewed the -- remove to the -- removed the requirement that you had to cut a program. it now in an election, all of a sudden he things that we should control spending. he took over corporate growth. they said they worked to change the republican party from of balanced budget party to a pro- death at it spending party -- pro-deficit spending party. pay for it he says we shod borrow from china. >> you have made that point before. >> this is -- >> this is going to have to be quick. >> let me be clear. what he has done with earmarks is unbelievable. he took a pledge tt said that he would not take contributions. -- from anybody who seeks an earmarke from my office. they found out he had. -- he had taken hundreds of thousands in those contributions. he said he only met during a limited amount of time. he said he never meant for the pledge to the public. the house passed a role that the -- pass the rule that said that democrats said they will only seek ur marks -- earmarks for not-for-profit companies. joe did $350,000 earmarks to a sham not-for-profit and funneled it to a for-profit. this has to come to an end. >> can you tell the trut i went to congress. i'm the only one new published appropriations bill -- who publish appropriations. -- who published any appropriations that we got. it was not a requirement. if the president of a corporation or company or university came to me, quietly, i could not take it. his professor gave $300 from the anthropology department did. toomey congressman said he did -- congressman toomey said he did not take your marks except for -- earmarks except for the first year. now we find out he took them a second time. he is yet to publish where he got them from. worse than that, he took millions of dollars in bonuses from wall street corporations. now they are following his campaign. the issue is influence of money. we do not want to have a senator at all from wall street. we want someone from nnsylvania to represent us. >> our next question has to do with cuts. this is our question no. two. let's roll that tape. >> i live on the north side. why is it that it seems to be neighborhoods that had the most need for these services have do -- neighborhoods where people do not have cars and access to different types of services are the ones that have their budgets -- bus services cut the most? >> yes speakinspecifically of bus about services. >> thank you i've been to the north side number of times. john f. kennedy said, to neglect our city, we'd use it to our peril. -- to neglect our cities, we do so at our peril. because to neglect our citis to -- cities is to neglect america. we truly have neglected our cities. pittsburgh has lost 17% of its population in the last 30 years. pittsburgh has nohad the focus upon small businesses that they should. worse, it has been our manufacturing prowess. let me give you an example. congressman toomey said that the steel industry went bankrupt because it to some of thr own self-inflicted wounds. -- because of some of their own self-inflected wounds. . have merit and allocate the money to states and let local officials make the decision about the allocation. >> do think the stimulus funding has extended higher unemployment rates in the market will work things out by themselves? >> i still cannot believe it shouldave been bigger. this is an example of how extreme he is. this ithe mindset of joe. he is in step with nancy pelosi. it is only criticism is that she did not go far enough. we cannot spend our way to prosperity. in instead of is growing government, let's have an across-the-board cut in payroll taxes. we could have cut payroll taxes roughly in half for about three years. every single worker would have a take-home pay raise. us to get the stimulus bill. economists said another 8 million economists would have lost their job. unemployment would have been over 11%. 1/3 of the stimulus wanted tax cuts for the middle-class 1/3 one two unemployment. congressman toomey voted against it. 1/3 was for a job creation. he is right. i did want to do something else. i wanted to work with republicans. this is a good word. if we have given that tax credit for every new job that was created, we would have 5 million jobs created today. it is a matter of looking at it pragmatically. the stimulus help? yes, it did. was it something of wanted congress to do? no. it was something where we had been torpedoed. the ship was sinking. we had 700,000 jobs a month. we have created 1 million in the last eight months. >> i think any to get to the last to videotape and questions. the time has just flown. i would do that and then ask a couple more really quick answers. i know that is hard for you. from facebk, i love this one. what is your most obvious fault? what is your biggest strength? >> congress and sestak sestak. congressman sestak congressman -- sestak. >> i do too much. i asked to get out and beyond the education committee. education is the key to the future. then i asked for ways to get out of a third committee. we are only allowed to be on two committees. my greatest asset is my wife. >> well done. >> we will go to dinner tonight. i love her. i learned it is not about me. and and you ar not as responsible for what you are supposed to do. you are willing to be held accountable for what you are supposed to do. i did it because it mattered pennsylvanian spell were losing their jobs. when the father walks of the -- upstairs and stairs and a half to tell his son is not e to go to the college that tia been saving for because he lost his job, those 8 million jobs we lost were not just jobs. i am willing to be held accountable for doing things for pennsylvania. they were fathers and mothers. we prevented another 8 million. weave to be held accountable. >> be tried to do too much for your wife. >> maybe my biggest fault is that things in times i tried to keep a lot of balls up in the air and can get distracted. it is important to impose a discipline of keeping focus. >> it is the same answer to both questions. you try to do too much. >> there is no question that my wife is my biggest asset. on a personal level, one of my strengths and semi small- business experience. i work as hard as i can every day to try to grow this business and make the right decisions. if we did our very best and worked as hard as we could, we could hope to be competitive with the other good players. they gave me a sense of humility. and i have to work that hard to beat it my business, the might to tell everyone else how to run theirs? -- tbe good at my business, who am i to tell everyone else ?ow to run their stack >> let's go to our last videotaped qstion. >> i grew up in the middle east. there is no separation between church and state. do you think religion should be involved in our government? >> did you hear that? should religion played a role or be involved in government? she said to greg ithe middle east where there is no separation. --he grew up in the middle east where there is n separation. >> when it the great -- one of the great things of america is the constitution. it prohibits -- this is a vital part of our constitutional system, our history, and art tradition. it is not mean we have to deny the fact that most americans are of faith. it does inform the judgment of most americans. it also forms the basis of many of our laws. sometimes i think there is a tendency to think we have t deny faith and religion entirely. i do not think that is wha it means. for instance, i am a big believer tt we should offer every child the opportunity to attend the school their parent chooses for them. i think that would be enormously helpful. there is so many kids second failing schools. i believe parents ought to be able to choose schools whether there public or private or regious or non-religious. i think you would be a great opportunity for the kids to have a better education. i like our tax dollars to follow the child. >> i also have to agree it is right about our constitution. there are some extreme candidates in delaware that thinks it might be a state mandated religion. we know that is wrong. you can almost anduy yourself anywhere. -- invite yourself anywhere. i go to another church or synagogue or a temple every week since i have been a congressman. i do that because i find good congregational leaders are like military leaders. they are what politicians should be. the public servants. -- good public servants. they are dealers of hope. the also care about the surrounding communities. how can we work together? people really do want to work together. we want to help solve our problems. we need to make sure we focus on their community. >> you mentioned pelosi. i want to ask you about your advertisements. do you hear from the voters on opinions on your ad? >> sure. >> what do you hear? >> most people i hear from like our ads. >> i do not hear that. i am not picking on you or you, but in general. >> i am joking. i think the tone of the campaign is unfortunate. the tone of campaigns in general, and this one in particular iish we could have a more substantive discussion. i had a picture of myself and joe sestak and the line under a it,two good men with different views and then it checked up on the big issues. my ads are focused on the big policy issues. he has an extreme view of the government's and following nancy pelosi. i think we should have less government and less spending and lower taxes. we have different views. i thought we could stick to these differences. joe has chosen to go down a different road >> do you agree the tone is unfortunate? >> i do. a toomey congressman said it well in his book. truth is often the first casualty of the elections. >> it is a prettycary book. -- on halloween. -- read it on halloween. >> corrected the tone of the campaign. i did not have any ads until late summer. ds said that i voted to do we with of private health insurance plans -- how outrageously wrong with that. my daughter who had brain cancer is now nine years old would have lost your healthcare i had done that. which did not be pointing at one another -- we should not be pointing at one another. i have great faith in pennsylvanians. we are the most common sensible people have ever met. i was born and raised here. they will see it. we've all had to look at ourselves. what we want is someone, who is going to be on their side? >> could you ever foresee add that say this is what i plan to do and not attack? >> i do not think it is right to run ads that smear a person's character or is this honest in any way. i think it is reasonable for them to understand that one person wants higher taxes are r
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