Vicki needham so, obviously right now, congress is working on trade promotion authority. Could you explain what that is . What that means or the trade agreements . And why you are opposed to that right now . Congressman sander levin well it is fasttrack. What it means is that the negotiating is being done. And all we have at the end is yes or no. We cant do any amendment. So that makes it all the more important that we get tpp right before we fasttrack it. And we dont lose our leverage. That is what this is really all about. I am in favor of expanded trade. I would like to see a tpp i could support, but right now, i cannot because that is why tpa is having trouble because tpp is not on the right track. Host congressman, before we go too far, tpp, tpa, you have to explain those outside of washington. Congressman sander levin tpa, trade promotion authority, that is what is called fasttrack. What it means is the negotiating is undertaken by ustr, by the trade representative. And at the end, all congress can do is to say yes or no. There is the argument that we could withdraw it, but we have that power now. And that is why there are other techniques to withdraw, but that is not going to happen because we can already do it. Host and tpp . Congressman sander levin the Transpacific Partnership. A dozen countries. This is an expanded trade effort. 40 of the gdp. That is why it is so important we get it right because it is important document and trade agreement. Host ok. Go ahead with your next question. Emma dumain i was going to followup on vickis question. What do you need to see in order to get to a yes on a trade deal . I know you had a substitute amendment that you offered in the ways and Means Committee during the markup of this negotiated measure for trade promotion authority. It was ultimately ruled out of order. Your democratic leader, nancy pelosi, has said that this is hopefully not the end. That we can negotiate some of these things back in. But between now and the floor, tell us what you want to see negotiated into the existing arrangement and how likely is it you think those changes could be made . Congressman sander levin our substitute laid out with instructions, clearcut instructions on the key issue, unlike the hatch widen tpa which just has vague objections. It is really a wish list. Let me give you a few examples if i might. We want currency involved because the currency has been manipulated in the past by japan, one of the tpp partners and very much by china. It has cost, by some estimates chinas manipulation, a loss of one million to 5 million jobs in this country. When japan did it in the 1990s, it also cost, i think, well over a million jobs. Mostly in manufacturing. So we need to include that. Also, we need to get at the automotive industry. Japan has kept out our autos. Now there is a consideration at reducing the tariff on their cars. And i want to be sure we get that right. Environmental issues are really very important. And Worker Rights we, in the may 10 document, which essentially House Democrats wrote and was accepted by the bush demonstration, what we said was this. That there has to be there has to be adopted by the countries the basic ilo standards. So, now we are negotiating with vietnam and with mexico. Vietnam doesnt begin to abide by the basic ilo standards. The president is going to come going through, as we speak is going to be in oregon at nike. Nike has much, much, many, many imports from vietnam. Hundreds of thousands of workers there, essentially produce their product. This is the problem. Imports are important, as well as export. Imports in this country have essentially dislocated industry in this country. Hundreds of thousands of people have lost their jobs. And so, we really need to be sure that as workers produce these products overseas and we import them, they are done under decent standards. And that isnt true today in vietnam. Workers do not have the ability to join an independent union. And if they do, the people who help organize them are thrown in jail. I met, when i was in vietnam, a month or two ago, a person who was in jail for four years four months because she tried to form, or help form, an independent organization representing workers. Not tied into the entity that is part of the communist party. Thrown in jail for four years four months, and her two colleagues that were there with her are still in jail. That has to be remedied as part of the tpp negotiations. Emma dumain congressman, how confident are you that those changes, those concerns, rather, will be addressed in what ultimately goes to the president s desk, if those votes even exist at a certain point to advance it to that level . Congressman sander levin the way we want to make sure that happens is to have the right tpa, the right fasttrack. And we dont have that now. That is why i am opposed to it. I dont want us to lose our leverage. Congress should not be in the back seat and essentially at the end have to vote to the yes or no. We have to be in the front seat, not doing the negotiating, but being a major partner in making sure that tpp is gotten right. And i can mention other issues like medicines, which we put into the may 10 agreement to make sure that people have access to the medicines they need. And then, we have issues like state owned enterprises. Let me also mention mexico, as well as vietnam, because mexico competes with us. Their workers make 1 5 the amount that is earned in the United States of america. We have to make sure that mexico essentially lives up to the basic ilo standards that we wrote into the may 10 agreement. The reality is also important. And today, the reality in mexico and in vietnam is that the workers do not have their basic rights as these countries compete with us. Vicki needham congressman, next week or on tuesday the senate is going to take their first test vote on the fasttrack bill. Senate democrats have now been clamoring to put all four of those trade bills together in one package. And that would include the trade adjustment assistance that democrats want, the fasttrack which more republican support and the white house supports. What are your thoughts about putting all those trade bills that went through ways and means recently together in one package . Does that make it a difficult vote for democrats because they want that trading adjustment assistance that would help workers who lose their job because of trade . Congressman sander levin you know, i think in the end, each of the four each have to be evaluated on its own and voted on its own. Because i dont want ta, it is very important, i helped author the bill, to be used essentially as a sweetener on tpa, on fasttrack. Fasttrack has to stand on its own, so does trade adjustment assistance. We need to get expanded trade right. That is the key point. I have helped author trade bills in the past. But this is an example of a very important bill where we havent they havent gotten it right at this point on many of the issues that i mentioned, and others. This is really what this is all about. Getting it right. Vicki needham lets make a quick trip from trade over to transportation. You and ways and means chairman, paul ryan, are working, as well as the senate side, are working on a shortterm patch for the highway trust fund. Around 11 billion. You are obviously looking for the best way to pay for that bill. Does that having that extension to the end of the year, does that give you all a chance to actually bring to fruition a sixyear transportation bill . Is that what it means . Or what is going to happen in the next few months here . Congressman sander levin i dont know, but i think this is the key. We need a longterm solution. A sixyear solution. And i am not sure which way to go. I think it may take six months to the end of the year, which is why i thought that might be the best route. But if we can do it in two months, that is fine. The main point is we need, at long last, to step up to the plate on highways and transportation and have a longterm approach. We, in michigan, know that firsthand. We just had voted down an effort to get at this highway problem. We need to step up to the plate federally. So i want a longterm solution and we will see when we get back next week whats the best way to do that. We have to act by the end of the month. Emma dumain pardon me. Congressman, what are your thoughts right now you and your fellow House Democrats on where the money could come from to fund these programs . Both through in the short term and even the longterm because that is really the hard part right now, finding the role. Congressman sander levin it sure is. It sure is. There have to be more revenues. I mean, that is what transportation is really all about. There have to be more revenues and here there is a deep division between the two parties. The republicans tend to write off any use of more revenues. But you cant do a longterm package without more revenues. So, we need to get that straightened out. Emma dumain so, what if you mentioned the deep divide between republicans and democrats on revenues, what do you think realistically both parties can agree on for a longterm and sustainable solution . Congressman sander levin i am not sure. We have been at this we have extended the Highway Program how many times on a shortterm basis. And i hope that whether it is during two months or six or seven months that we face up to this problem. When we duck the issue of infrastructure or transportation or highways, we are doing it a disservice in terms of jobs, in terms of economic growth. And so we simply have to face up to it. And i have talked with chairman ryan. He and i have talked about this. And i hope during these next month, whether it is two months or six or seven months, that we will essentially get serious about this because we keep on extending, extending, extending, and that is a reflection of the polarization within our ranks. And i hope we can really get together. Host congressman, you hope, but you dont sound confident. Should americans expect another shortterm solution . Congressman sander levin i think americans should say to Congress Face up to the need for a longterm solution. Vicki needham congressman yesterday, 150 House Democrats signed a bill supporting the obama administrations position on negotiating a Nuclear Agreement with iran. You did not sign that letter. Are you supportive of those efforts . Or would you add your name to it . Or why wouldnt you add your name to that . Congressman sander levin well i decided not to sign any letter, but i was supportive of the agreement, the interim agreement. That is what it really was. The framework that was put together as a step forward. And now there are issues that need to be resolved. I hope by the end of june. And i hope that they are resolved successfully. There are several types of issues that are outstanding. And i am hopeful that the administration in iran and the other countries will be able to reach an agreement that i can support. Emma dumain congressman, you were talking about discussions with chairman ryan, paul ryan, wisconsin republican, as im sure our viewers know. You have said you have been talking to him about the highway trust fund. Certainly, youre working with him on trade, on tax reform, on a whole host of issues. It has been, i guess, about five months now since you started working with him as the chairman of the committee, your counterpart on the other side of the aisle. What has it been like working with him . What is your working relationship like with him . Congressman sander levin i think a good one. I think we are both very open. I think there is a cordiality. I think there is more than a willingness to talk back and forth. There is also a realization that there are some significant differences of ours as we approach issues. And that is all the more reason to try to see if we can Work Together. So, the personal relationship i think is very positive. We have to translate that into action. That is the real challenge. Emma dumain do you see him as someone who, you know, with more time and as the legislative session goes on, that you could get to a point in your relationship when you start to agree on things and Work Together towards tangible solutions and results . Congressman sander levin well i hope so. I think tax reform is a vivid example. Chairman camp and i started some years ago. We set up working groups on tax reform to go into the issues and that, i think, that was a productive step. The trouble was after that, the republican majority decided to put together a tax reform package strictly on a partisan basis. And that essentially came to a dead end. So, i think chairman camp came up with the product that at least tried seriously to address the issues. So, i think we now need to learn from that experience and realize tax reform is important if it is done correctly, and the only way to do it so that it has broad support and can really make sense to get enough votes, it has to be done on a bipartisan basis. Host we have about 10 minutes left. Vicki needham congressman, back again on trade. Senator Elizabeth Warren has been outspoken as a democrat about issues that she has with how fast track could affect investor state, dispute resolution, which she believes could change federal law, could overhaul dodd frank. Do you share some of those concerns as to what a Transpacific Partnership could allow Foreign Companies to do with u. S. Law outside our court system . Congressman sander levin i do. Let me take isds. You said we need to go beyond the initials. So, this is investor state dispute settlement. What this means is, under that if an investor has a case they think, they dont have to go through the courts. But they can go through an Arbitration Panel, rather than the court system. The problem with that is in countries like ours, we have a strong legal system. And the question is, should an investor be able to go outside of that and go to an Arbitration Panel . Often without very strict rules as to who is on it and after as to their procedures. In the past, that has not been a major problem. But times have changed. The president says we may we should now be wedded to the status quo. In recent times, cases have expanded. For example, Phillip Morris is challenging australia upon written a strong as australias tobacco policy. There has been an objection to certain procedures relating to their medicine. So instead of the Company Going through the courts of canada, they have been going through an Arbitration Panel. There is a recent case where an investor decided to challenge a canadian environmental regulation. A related to a quarry. Instead of going to the canadian courts, essentially decided to go through arbitration. So we have come up with some ideas as to how to reform isds. There are some who favor its deletion entirely from trade agreements. This is an example of the effort of myself and others to come up with ways to shape trade. So as we expanded, the benefits are spread. So these are for recommendations we have come up four recommendations we have come up with. Unfortunately, the administration has failed to adopt any of them. And has proceeded along the path of the past. And i think that is a mistake. And that is why we should not fasttrack this tpp, as it presently stands. And let me say a word about dodd frank. Senator warren has pointed out that, essentially, this tpa fast track, another name for it, would be most likely for six years cleared six years. And there are some in europe who are negotiating not only with the transpacific, but with the europeans, a broad agreement. And i favor addressing these issues. But the the europeans want Financial Services placed within the negotiating. Within the negotiations. And that could lead, arguably i dont think under this administration, but a future administration to efforts by the europeans to undo, or to force us to modify, dodd frank. And the administration says, well, congress would have to approve that. And is a matter it is a matter of sovereignty. But congress has to approve all major changes in negotiations. So to simply say, dont worry because it would have to be approved by congress, that is true of all major changes. And i think we dont want to leave open the possibility through the negotiations, that dodd frank could be undone by a subsequent administration bowing to the demand of banking interests, including those who are now stationed in europe. Emma dumain speaking of future administrations, congressman how important do you think it is that the democrats nominate for the presidency in 2016, hillary clinton, comes out with a position on the fasttrack authority . She has been hesitant to really take it from stand. Lots of members of your party think it would be helpful because it is important for the party to take a position on this preferably one that is in opposition. What do you think . Congressman sander levin you know, i think Everybody Needs to get into this, including, i hope, president to be hillary clinton. This is my main point. This is why i am so emphatic about opening of this debate. That is why we put together a substitute bill that the republican that not let us have a vote on. It had instructions on all of these issues, some of which we have mentioned here. I hope when this gets to the floor at the republicans will let us have a vote. I presented those with many of my colleagues in order to open up this debate on this Transpacific Partnership. Trade is not the only reason we lost jobs in this country. I favor exports, but we also need to look at the importance of imports. And, by the way, to simply say in the case of nike that they will take the expanded imports and view some of those proceeds because the imports are now less costly and use it to create jobs, i think that is speculative at best. So we need to look at the impact of trade, and to do it right. And to acknowledge the importance of expanding our exports in this globalization but also to understand the impact of imports into this country. To understand there is any for competition. That applies to vietnam. Offensively, we need to make sure they are going to abide by basic ilo standards. There are people are making less than a buck an hour. We need to make sure that mexico , as its Auto Industry and other parts compete with us, that essentially the workers there have their rights. It is also a matter of our intrusion. Host congressman, we have time for one more question. Vicki needham i was just going to ask you one more question about, obviously, something that has been in the news about the transmission Transpacific Partnership. Transparency to the american people, that the public cant see it yet, that there has been an uprising about the availability of it. You have talked about this, the administration has opened up the doors of the more, kind of lowered the restrictions on who can see it. Can you talk a little bit about lawmakers ability to see the text of this developing trade agreement to and if you think trade agreement . And if you think there needs to be more steps to make it available . Congressman sander levin we have taken steps to give members and their staff more access, and various groups and the public. There has been some progress, but more needs to be done. Look, for example, this issue of of Worker Rights. We, at this point, do not know what is being negotiated between our administration and vietnam or mexico. We also dont know if state owned enterprises these enterprises which are subsidized by the state that compete with us at times we dont really know where they are. So we need to have a process which is open, but for congress does not give up its leverage. That we are inactive, full partner. And not in the backseat being left simply to vote yes or no. So transparency is important but also so is participation. And the public needs to have a full of dialogue as possible. Host congressman, we will have to leave it there. Congressman sander levin, the top democrat on the ways and Means Committee, thank you very much. Congressman sander levin thank you for having me. Host let me turn to the both of you. He is on the house side, but the senate is moving on trade. Vicki, what is the timeline . Vicki needham right now, the senate is going to start on tuesday. Mitch mcconnell is going to have a test vote. There has been a little bit of an uprising over the past few days with Senate Minority leader reid, saying he wanted to stop all of the trade those going through until mcconnell was willing to take of National Security bills and the other surveillance bill, as well as getting that patch for transportation. Both of which expire at the end of the month. So we didnt want to see trade moving in front of something that actually had to be done by the end of the month. But mcconnell is moving gradually board. And that has prompted now democrats in the chamber to put all the bills together. They are obviously concerned that there is a new Customs Enforcement bill. And a bill for african growth that is supposed to ask been supposed to expand trade with africa. And also help lower wage countries so, we are going to see how it canada progresses in the senate with a lot of how it kind of progresses in the senate with a lot of democrats. Mcconnell has said, by the end of may, he wants this on. Host harry reid has never voted for a trade bill, doesnt like what he is saying. Washington post called it tactics. If it comes to the floor, do democrats vote for it . Emma dumain i think that is an interesting question. I think it depends on what their strategy is here. The democrats think that they have the leverage to vote a certain way to compel action on Something Else . You know, we saw with the department of Homeland Security funding earlier this year, i think, leader mcconnell put that had that vote to proceed to a final passage or to proceed to debate and final passage on socalled clean Homeland Security funding bill like what, several times. And democrats said, nope. And that was a real sign of the leverage they had in that case. House democrats had a similar situation. This is very different. This is something much more complex. It is something that not everybody not every constituent really understand. It is harder to translate back in home states and districts, so i think that it is the jury is still out on what democrats think they can do and what they should do and what would have lasting effects for their sort of influence and power in the chamber. Host if it doesnt happen, right now in the spring or these early summer months, it gets pushed off to the fall when you are now in full swing of 2016 politics. Does it happen at all . Vicki needham that is a very good question. Basically, every nation that is involved say that the United States has got to finish fast track legislation in order to for them to put their final offers on the table. So that leaves the completion of that trade deal up in the air where there are a couple of meetings scheduled for this month that are probably, you know, with the intention of trying to finish that deal. Republicans have said they dont want tpp done before tpa, but it seems almost impossible to try and finish it. Do i think the republicans are determined and the white house is determined . Yes. But probably waiting much longer, you probably have a finite number of democrats that are going to go for it and any delay could hamper the ability to get it done. Host how Many Democrats are we talking about . Vicki needham