Transcripts For CSPAN Education Secretary Pressed On Protections For LGBTQ Religious Minorities 20170611

Public service by america asking Television Companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Education secretary duncan to testify this past week on President Trumps 2018 budget request which includes spending cuts for Public School programs and a proposal that encourages state and local districts to introduce policies for parents. The subcommittee hearing is just under two and a half hours. The appropriations subcommittee on labor, health, and Human Services will come to order. Morning to everybody, particularly good morning secretary devos and thank you for appearing before the this is a difficult budget request to defend. Just over one month ago, the Congress Overwhelmingly passed and resident signed into law a bill that included 161 billion in discretionary funding for this subcommittee. While that was a billion dollars less than we had the year before , we were able to eliminate in a way that allows things to do things like returned to yearround hell for the first time in nine years where for the first time, students this fall will have the opportunity to have the pell grant. This year, the fiscal year 2018 , it proposes a significant funding decrease, approximately 24 billion below what we are spending in the current year in the agencies reflected in the work of this subcommittee. Just past the end of april. For the department of education, the proposal includes approximately 59 billion, a nine point 2 billion reduction. You not only get to start with a new look at the department of education, but a new look at what we should be doing. We are glad you are here to talk about that. I think it is likely the kinds of cuts proposed in this budget will not occur, so we need to fully understand your priorities and why they are your priorities. The committee will continue to have priorities. I think significant reductions technicals like clear education, treo and federal work study will make it harder for students to get into and complete college and go into wellpaying jobs. The outright elimination of large Grant Programs like the 21st Century Community learning centers will be all but impossible to get those kinds of cuts through this committee. But you were given this budget and i know you had some input, but your input would have been late. In view of these issues, as you get a chance to run the department every day, will bring the ability to bring new and more information to the committee. Over the last two years, the subcommittees increased funding for Charter Schools from 253 million to 342 million. Im interested to learn more about your broader proposals for more choice in school. And finally, i think many of the members on this committee look forward to realigning the department of educations role in the Education System generally. And i believe the Education System should be made closer to students and families and local School Districts. Often, i think the state capital in my state or other states are too far away from these decisions to be made and certainly washington, d. C. Would be an even bigger challenge to make decisions that affect students and their families and their education all over the country. We look forward to hearing your testimony today. Im sure we will have a lively discussion. And i will turn to senator murray. Senator murray i want to recognize chairman cochran and vice chairman leahy. Secretary devos as you know i was very clear during your confirmation process that i had serious concerns with your extreme i had logical commitment to privatizing our Public Schools. Your extensive financial conflicts of interest and lack of understanding in the role of the federal government in protecting rights. Millions of parents and teachers stood up, they rallied and sent he letters and called their senators, so much that the senate switch board was overwhelmed and made it clear that they opposed your vision to our students in our schools and strongly supported Public Education in america. When it came to a vote, every democrat voted no. And joined by two republican members who are long time members of this committee who cited their constituents concerns and the Vice President had to break a tie on a cabinet nomination for the first time in our nations history. I was hoping you would enter your role as secretary with an understanding that your extreme antiPublic School agenda and the federal government playing a role just didnt have the support of congress or people across the country. And i was hoping that instead of trying to jam it through any way, you would work with us and join us at the table and share information and be a true partner in implementing our nations education laws, investing in our students, our teachers and our schools and helping all of our students succeed. But secretary devos, i and many others are extremely disappointed with what we have seen the past few months. You have not backed away from your unpopular and unsupported agenda and not made any attempt to work with us in good faith. You continue to allow potential conflicts of interests and ethical issues to exist in your department and you refuse to answer basic questions that democrats asked you. You backed away from commitments and this budget from President Trump today which you are here to defend which is attacked by republicans and democrats and people across the country is the latest example. So there are many issues people want answers to, from the people that you hired, including your senior counselor who came straight from a forProfit College under multiple investigations and who you have charged with overseeing regulations directly impacting his former employer, to the policies you have implemented or changed including rescinding guidance protecting transgender students after telling us in your hearing you believed all students should feel safe and free of discrimination. Eliminating protections for student loan borrowers. But im going to ask you about your Budget Proposals, because they truly highlight the ways and policies and priorities you and President Trump are pushing would hurt students, would hurt our communities and represent a clear broken promise to workers and the middle class. First of all, your antiPublic Education plans. A year andahalf ago Congress Overwhelmingly passed the every student succeed act to fix the broken no child left behind law. To provide flexibility for our School Districts while maintaining strong federal guardrails to make sure students didnt fall through the cracks no matter where they lived or how much money their parents made. Instead of working with us to implement this bipartisan law your Budget Proposal will continue the work you have already started to undercut it dramatically. Instead of common ground, your budget proposes policies similar to those that were roundly rejected on both sides of the aisle during our active debate like privatization and portability. After republicans spent years lamb bassing the department of education for using federal dollars as a tool for motivating states and after you promised not to do this in your confirmation hearing when you were asked about it by senator cassidy, this budget does exactly that. It takes hundreds of millions of dollars from lowincome School Districts and holding it hostage unless states agree to your extreme ideological agenda. I want further clarity on your confusing statements regarding whether or not your privatization plans for the e. I. R. Program students could use their federal civil rights protections and im going to ask you to explain the massive cuts that you propose across the board impacting students of all ages. The budget would cut investments in our students and schools by 39. 2 billion, a 13 from where we are today. I could list them all but 3 billion in cuts authorized again with one of the few increases directed towards Holding States hostage. Among these cuts are 2. 1 billion for state grants and entire Program Eliminated that provides support and professional development for our teachers and school leaders. 1. 2 billion from 21 Century Community learning centers, completely eliminating investments before and afterSchool Programs and extending opportunities for two Million Students. 190 million completely eliminating the striving readers comprehensive Development Investments which im passionate and worked with republicans to strengthen. 400 million in Student Support and academic enrichment grants to improve students safety and wellrounded education. And its not just k12 that is under attack. This proposal would make Higher Education less affordable by taking 3. 39 billion from the Pell Grant Program and freezing the maximum award, eliminating the supplemental education opportunity Grant Program which provides a billion dollars in federal and institutional funds to 1 1. 6 million lowincome graduates, cutting federal work study in half, increasing student debt by making many students pay more interest, pay back longer and eliminating Public Service loan forgiveness and cuts investments for students with disabilities and 113 million to special education grants to our states pushing more costs to our states and local communities. 27. 5 million for state grants which help people with the most significant disabilities, achieve employment and investment by the way, that we included in our bipartisan bill and is not being done through any other program. And finally, this budget even eliminates all support for Special Olympics programs in our schools. I will be asking about a lot of these. I know many of my colleagues will. But this budget would be devastating for our students and take away opportunities for so many families in this country. I hope from hearing from a lot of parents and lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, you would reconsider this approach and come back to us with a budget that reflects our values and priorities as a country. Senator blunt we are pleased to do you have any statement you would like to make . Im concerned about our challenge that we have to deal with. The reality of the budget process that hands us a budget resolution in terms of authorization to appropriate funds. We have children ready to be educated throughout our state and everybodys state. And we need to train teachers and support the training of teachers. And so there are federal programs that are legitimate and needed to be on the front burner for the support and strengthening of our federal programs that help us teach our children. I guess i come at this from a biased point of view. I have a grandmother who was a teacher and Wonderful School teacher in mississippi. My father was a county superintendent what was then the largest Public School district in the mississippi. My brother was a math teacher. Me and my brother tagging along my father was a county superintendent what was then the with our father for graduate work. And we get into classrooms and act like we were students thinking we were just as smart of some of his students were. But the whole point is, we all have so much invested through our families, through our organizations back in our home state. So weve got our work cut out for us. And i plan my best efforts to squeeze this through the area that we can and make improvements in and take a hard look, but at the same time realize we need to get a bill. Senator blunt senator leahy. Senator leahy thank you, chairman blunt and Ranking Member murray. And i agree with chairman cochran that we have a difficult task ahead of us, but i know that i point out to all the Ranking Members and my role as vice chairman, what senator cochran and i are doing, every cabinet member is going to have a chance to testify before the appropriations committee. So i appreciate this opportunity. I feel very unfortunate the president s proposed budget displays a fundamental lack of you can of the role of government of, for and by the people. Lifting up the most vulnerable amongst us and serving our values as a nation. And sequestration had devastating consequences in defense and nondefense consequences which are going to lat a generation or moment. The trump budget deepens those. It can be summed very quickly, abysmal. The submission from the department of education would reduce federal education by more than 15 . The budget proposed approximately 4 billion in cuts to investments in programs to support Public Schools. Recently reauthorized by the bipartisan, bipartisan every Student Succeeds act while proposing 1. 4 billion in new discretionary funding for the agenda and policies that promote vouchers in School Choice. That is an insult to schoolaged children across the country. President trump has said it is a civil rights issue of our time. And i agree education can and should be a great equalizer, but federal investment is intended to support all students not just a few privileged ones. And intended to close achievement gaps that many disadvantaged students face upon entry in school. This budget turns its back on hardworking families and proposed to cut half a billion dollars from the vast majority of School Districts that do not fall in the choice proposals. Well, secretary devos, you ought to come to a rural area like vermont where schools may be an hour or more away from where people live. School choice is not under any circumstances an option. Especially in the winter where we may have had 10 inches of snow overnight. Holding School Choice hostage like this, its going to leave the most vulnerable students and School Districts behind. It also reduced funding for many programs which states and school rely, specifically that support Public Education. The preschool development grants, after School Programs. Senator murray mentioned Special Olympics education program. Programs to train principals and other school leaders. Among many others. It cuts aid to students struggling to pay for college by rescinding nearly 4 billion from pell grants. Eliminating or reducing support for many other student aid programs. The best way to create a foundation for greatness as the trump budget purports to do is to continue to invest in americas future so our schools and our children. As vice chairman of this committee ill work to put that in. I look forward to working with other members of the committee on both sides of the aisle as we have in the past. I want to fulfill that goal. If youre not going to fulfill the goal of america, making America Great by cutting out opportunity for our children and for our schools. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator leahy. I want to welcome secretary devos today. This is her first time to testify before this subcommittee. Secretary devos has been involved in education policy and advocacy for nearly three decades, where she worked to empower parents and create new educational choices for students and families across the country. Madam secretary, im glad youre here, i look forward to hearing your testimony. Ms. Devos thank you. Chairman cochran, Ranking Member leahy, chairman blunt, Ranking Member murray and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on the administrations fiscal year 2018 Budget Proposal. I look forward to talk about how we can Work Together to improve Educational Opportunities and outcomes for all students while also refocusing the federal role in education. Todays hearing is meant to focus on the numbers and mechanics of the budget but i hope well all remember our goal and shared purpose how to best serb americas students. During my House Appropriations subcommittee hearing, i relayed the story of one of those students a young man named michael who grew up in East Hartford, connecticut. Michael in his own words described to me what life was like for him in high school. I quoted him last month and i will quote him again because his words are worth repeating he said his assigned high school was, and i quote, nothing more than adult day care. A dangerous day care. And even though michael was failing his classes, his School Graduated him anyway he got a diploma but not an education. Since sharing michaels story this is young man has been barraged by attack. But he has tremendous courage and instead of being intimidated he wrote an oped published this sundays Hartford Courant where he admonished, rather than getting into a defensive crouch at perceived slight, lets admit serious and perceived problems exist and theres a lot of work to do. Lets give kids and families who feel trapped the opportunity to find something better. Let me be clear, my relaying of michaels story is not a blanket indictment of Public Schools, connecticut schools, or even East Hartford high school. The story of his success is not a blanket endorsement of Community Colleges, of floridas system of education or in Valencia College where hes a student. His situation is one far too many students face. Theyre trapped in an Education System that for whatever reason is not serving them and they have no other choices. In 2017, in america, we can and we must do better. Im proud to stand with michael. Students like him are why im so passionate about reforming education. So i ask you to keep michael and the countless others like him in mind as we go about our shared work to support americas students. This budget lays out a series of proposals and priorities that work toward ensuring every student has an equal opportunity to receive a great education. It focuses on returning Decision Making power and flexibility to the state, where it belongs. And giving parents more control over their childs education, a right that has been denied for too long. If taxpayer money were limitless, we wouldnt need a budget. But by its very definition a budget reflects the difficult decisions of how best to appropriate the limited taxpayer dollars we have. This budget does so by putting an emphasis on programs that are proven to help students while taking a hard look at those that are wellintended but having yielded meaningful results. The president s fiscal year 2018 budget would reduce overall funding for Department Programs by 9 billion. Or 13 . And id like to outline for you the principles that guided our Decision Making. First, our request would devote significant resources toward giving every student an equal opportunity for a great education. It emphasizes giving parents more power and students more opportunities. Second, the administrations request recognizes the importance of maintaining strong support for Public Schools through long standing state formula Grant Programs focused on meeting the Educational Needs of the nations most vulnerable students, including poor and minority students and students with disabilities. Third, our request maintains funding for key competitive Grant Programs that support innovation and build evidence of what works in education. This also means strong support for the research and Data Collection activities of the department. Fourth, our request reduces the complexity of funding for college while prioritizing efforts to help make a College Education accessible for lowincome students through programs like yearround pell. And fifth, consistent with our commitment to improve the efficiency of the federal government, our request would eliminate or phase out 2 programs that are duplicative, ineffective, or are better supported but state, local, or philanthropic efforts. All told, taxpayers will save 5. 5 billion. In total, the president s budget fulfills his promise to devolve power from the federal government and place it in the hands of parents and families. It refocuses the department on providing a high quality education to all our students. Its time to unleash a new era of creativity and ingenuity in education. My hope is that working in concert with you, we can make education in america the envy of the world. Thank you again for the opportunity to share the administrations vision for improving education across the country, i look forward to answering your questions. Thank you, secretary. You mentioned yearround pell. Let me say a couple of things about the time on the questions too. Well have a round of fiveminute questions. Well stay close to that. Weve got a full committee here, we need to stay close to that. If you want your question answered during the five minutes leave time to answer questions, otherwise we may take the questions for the record. If theres five seconds left and youve got a threeminute answer youre probably not going to hear it here today. The questions will be done as near as possible in the five minutes, and that includes mine, i better get started, im town to four minutes and 30 seconds. Madam secretary, you mentioned yearround pell, i think in terms of what we did in the appropriation for this year, returning to the yearround pell grant gives adults returning to school, people paying their own way and working through school, people who are the first people in their family to hope to graduate from college a real greater likelihood they get that done. Anything that you do that doesnt disrupt the pattern thats working, increases the odds that youre going to achieve your goal of getting that degree and graduating and my state, and i think in most of our states, if you qualify for yearround pell, in every Community College we have in missouri, you get all your tuition paid, money for your books, fees paid, and a little money left over and at least one of our fouryear schools, yearround pell pays all of those things toward a fouryear degree as well as twoyear degree and others. I hope we have maximum flexibility as you come up with the implementation rules on yearround pell. Id like to hear where you are on that and im very concerned, ill be watching closely, that we dont have a lot of needless extra hoops to get that summer semester or that third semester in that you didnt have access to for the last nine years now. Ms. Devos thank you so much for that question and for your sharing the concern that we meet students needs and recognize the reality of education for many students today. By implementing yearround pell, we do get nontraditional students and lets face it more students entering Higher Education today are considered nontraditional than traditional give them the flexibility to set their own pace for their education and complete their education as quickly or as over an extended period of time as they need to do so. And so you have my commitment in implementation of it, we will honor the intent of congress in insuring that we leave and grant the maximum amount of flexibility to the students and recognizing their needs today. Sen. Blunt well, that will be good. Having the rules in place, i do know as people are thinking about entering the fall semester, the schools are already thinking about what their Summer Program should look like, if they return to the kind of student numbers they had before yearround pell was eliminated. The more they know how easy the implementation is going to be, the better off we will be. Now the pell grant is just that, its grant, it doesnt have to be paid back. Loans do have to be paid back. Weve been working with the department do create more servicers, in load among loan servicers. On may 19th, the department of education put out a new proposal where there would be only one principle servicer. And im inclined to think that that is not the best direction to go. Why did you make that decision as opposed to letting the department, as it has been doing, allocate loans to servicers who are having the best experience and the best results . Betsy devos senator, good question. That process was begun well before i arrived at the department. And in examining what had happened to date, the process was very complicated, confused, and was in fact moving to a single servicer. We have proposed through the amendment that was put out on may 19 as you have indicated that we will be reexamining that process and those bids for the servicing arrangement. Our contention is that the method of servicing before with the department being the host so to speak to four different servicing platforms, who went out and observed and engaged and employed a number of other providers, became much more complicated for students to actually interact with and was not servicing the customers, the students, well. Through a single servicer, that servicer will be able to engage a wide variety of contractors to work with. They will have sole accountability instead of having four different points of accountability. We believe that this is going to bring much more effective and Efficient Service to the students, and in fact, provide a higher level of competition ultimately and greater level of accountability. Sen. Blunt well i dont know , that i agree with that. But we can talk about that later. Senator murray, im going to lead by example here and stop the clock on myself. Senator murray all right. thank you. Secretary, your budget makes multiple requests for authority that is not provided in our bipartisan essa bill including a request to manipulate the education, innovation and Research Bill to create the new private School Voucher proposal. You have made some very confusing and concerning comments about how you see the role of the federal government in protecting students. So i want to be very clear and just yes or no, my time is limited. Will you require all schools participating in this Voucher Program to comply with idea . Betsy devos absolutely. Sen. Murray and will you require all schools participating in this Voucher Program to comply with civil rights laws, including title ix that protect against discrimination based on race, religion, disability, Sexual Orientation and jennifer identity gender identity . Betsy devos yes, but let me also clarify. There is no specific proposal under that line item. It is really appropriations in language, and that intent of that a line item is to use to explore and experiment with sen. Murray so youre going to be creating new regulations. Let me be very clear for this Voucher Program, correct . Betsy devos it wont necessarily be a Voucher Program specifically. That is really appropriations language. Its intended to be a Choice Program and to sen. Murray so 250 million private school betsy devos as part of the Research Budget that will help us sen. Murray all right, let me just betsy devos opportunities are working for students. Sen. Murray youre seeking authority for a new federal program. It is paid for by my constituents and all federal taxpayers. This question cant be left to states. The authority you are requesting says you, the secretary, will establish requirements for this new program. So should this Voucher Program ever come to be despite the opposition of a lot of people, and lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, will you require these schools receiving these funds to follow the i. D. E. A. . Betsy devos any Institution Receiving Federal Funding is required to sen. Murray through a Voucher Program or anything else betsy devos is required to follow federal law. Sen. Murray as well for discriminating against students, you will not allow . You will have specific rules and regulations . Betsy devos let me be clear schools that receive federal funds must follow federal law. Sen. Murray even through a Voucher Program . Betsy devos period. Sen. Murray as you know more , than half of our Public Schools, your budget proposed a cut of 578 million in this funding for districts that dont adopt your proposed policy said. Policies. Are you aware your budget would result in these cuts . Betsy devos i think, senator, we have a confusion here between the budget numbers that we were working with prior to the continuing resolution that was passed by congress. So the intention is to fully fund title i. Sen. Murray this is a 578 million betsy devos its not sen. Murray this is not planned with math. Were basing our numbers on the actual real world right now. , the numbers that we passed betsy devos and this budget is based upon the numbers prior to that implementation in late april. Sen. Murray something that was never implemented into law. This cut is 578 million less based on current law, real world. And, you know, thats, that cant be played around with. Everyone knew that the 450 million in School Improvement funding would be consolidated in title i law. Its the law of the land in both the house and senate bills provided that funding. Yet this budget is just choosing to ignore that fact and playing with numbers and would result in a cut to title one School Districts that dont adopt your proposed policies. And i just have 1 betsy devos senator, let me just say thats incorrect. The budget numbers you received were based upon the numbers you had prior to april. So the intention sen. Murray were playing with real world here. Betsy devos the intention is to fully fund the title i sen. Murray based on numbers that dont exist. We cant play math with this. This is real world. Let me ask you, i have a few second left. Many republicans actually attacked president obamas budgets proposing programs that were not authorized in federal law. But you not only cut the legs out from the bipartisan essa law with these massive cuts, you also proposed programs similar to one that Congress Already debated and rejected. And you claim that your budget is focused on offering states and schools this flexibility. Then you propose holding a billion dollars hostage to force states in districts to conform to your ideology. Youuse essa doesnt allow to use student funding pilot programs for promoting your policies thats correct, right . ,betsy devos no, the 1 billion was intended to be in addition to title i funds that would be fully funding again, i refer back to what i said before that we were working with numbers that congress had not acted at the time sen. Murray ok will you and i disagree on basic math. Let me betsy devos its a billion dollars in addition to fully funding the title i sen. Murray well, im over time. What do you tell republicans who feel strongly that the federal government shouldnt use federal education dollars to bend states and School Districts to their will . Betsy devos that it is a totally voluntary program on the part of states. Nobody will be coerced into using sen. Murray they are using federal dollars betsy devos no state would be forced to utilize it or to enact anything as a result. Sen. Blunt thank you, senator murray. Senator cochran. Senator cochran mr. Chairman, its a pleasure for me to join you and other members of the committee and congratulating dr. Devos for beinghere and being able to accept the responsibilities of being in her position. She has contributed voluntarily a lot of time and effort to organizations like the kennedy ,enter for performing arts where i served with her on the board of directors. We have to depend upon a lot of volunteers in programs in our education area. Many federal programs are looked to to solve Serious Problems that really are responsibilities of state and local governments. Anyway, i want to join those who congratulate you for your agreement to serve and to work to help the department identify ways we can improve teacher recruitment, student encouragement of moving on to graduate degrees and other programs such as childhood education. So the opportunities are there for a lot of meaningful work, and i assure you this committee will i think, in a positive way, work with you to help make your service as secretary a great success. Betsy devos thank you, chairman. Sen. Blunt senator durbin. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman, madam secretary, welcome. Madam secretary, i think were facing a student loan crisis in america. Let me tell you why. Student loan debt now is greater than Credit Card Debt in america. The total 1. 3 trillion over 42 million americans owes Student Loan Debt. In the year 2016, the number of defaults on student loan repayments increased by 14 over the previous year. The average amount that students owe when they finish college has been growing dramatically year after year after year. When i look at the trump budget, the one that you brought before us today, i can find no relief for students who are facing this debt. In fact, just the opposite is true. When you freeze the pell grant, you require students to borrow more money to complete their education. When you eliminate the federal Work Study Program, you eliminate an opportunity for students to reduce their debt by working. By getting their education and working. When you increase the Interest Payments that are going to be paid by students over 10 years by 38 billion, in other words, accumulating Interest Payments while theyre in school, we dont do that to them now, but the new trump budget does. It means a greater debt at the end of the day. And finally, when you eliminate the Public Service loan forgiveness for students, those who want to go into teaching and nursing and critical professions dont get a helping hand. Theyre ignored, and they have a bigger debt. But sadly that isnt the worst part of whats happened with the new department of education under the new president. Heres something you ought to think about. The most heavily subsidized for Profit Companies in America Today are for Profit Colleges and universities. 80 to 90 or more of their revenue comes directly from the federal treasury. These are not crafty entrepreneurs. Theyre people who have learned how to game the government. The only protection taxpayers have is in your hands. So heres two numbers id like you to think about. 9 of students graduating from high school go to for Profit Colleges and universities. 9 . Yet 35 of all student loan defaults are students from for Profit College and universities. Whats wrong with this picture . 9 of the students and 35 of the student loan defaults. And yet when we look at your policies when it comes to the se for Profit College and universities, theyre troubling, from the hiring of your counsel which has been raised by senator murray directly from that industry, to raising questions as to whether youre going to police the ranks of those schools that are exploiting students across the United States and continue to. Whether its a question of gainful employment so the students dont get so deeply in debt they dont have a chance to pay back their Student Loans, the defrauding of students by these schools thats been shown over and over again. The question is, what are you going to do about this . And attorneys general across the United States wrote you a letter on february 22 of this year, spelling out in detail why your regulation of for Profit Colleges and university is critical to protecting students from crippling and debilitating student debt. When i look at the trump budget, and the cutbacks when it comes to Student Loans new burdens , that are being placed on students, and the lack of policing the race of forProfit Colleges and universities. Im afraid the student loan crisis is going to get worse. Would you please respond. Betsy devos senator, thank you. Im not sure exactly what your question was there. Let me just say that i totally agree with you that student debt and Student Loans are a of grave concern. I talked about that during my confirmation hearing. And i feel no differently now. In fact, i probably feel more strongly about the critical nature of the increasing student debt sen. Durbin so your budget increases the interest burden of students. Your budget freezes the pell grant so they have to borrow more. Your budget doesnt give them public forgiveness. Betsy devos the budget actually a students a really welldefined and new way to address their Student Loans long term. Their student debt long term through income driven repayment plan that would cap the repayment that 12. 5 of their Discretionary Income. And after 15 years for undergraduates would be paid off. So its a really specific plan that will allow students to address this. But i think the question and the issue is a much broader one. And i think that in the context of your discussions around a higher ed bill and higher ed reauthorization or starting afresh, this is a real area of concern and one to address. We havent done a good job of helping students to know what their full menu of options are when pursuing Higher Education. Weve segmented out career and Technical Education in such a way that it seems like its a lesser of two in that weve put a higher emphasize on four year college and university. And i think all of these areas are ones that we have to have robust discussion about as we consider how what is the proper role of the federal government in supporting students pursuing Higher Education in the future and with the reality of todays world. Sen. Blunt senator shelby. Senator shelby thank you. madam secretary, thank you for your service and thank you for taking on a job that is so challenging. We all realize that. Madam secretary, in your testimony, you stated that you support expanding Educational Options for low income families regardless of their zip code. Specifically you stated that you are committed to locally developed student centered charter School Programs. In many rural areas in america, including my state of alabama, the infrastructure needed to establish and effectively run a Charter School just doesnt exist. However, in some of these areas there are established institutions of Higher Learning villages,ll universities that know the , unique needs of students. Many of these rural areas are in need of alternative Educational Options that they dont have today. My question is, would you be open to examining the idea of a rural of rural institutions of Higher Education establishing Charter Schools to create community specific curriculum to serve the needs of young people . Because a lot of it is not there today. Betsy devos senator, thank you for your question. And to go right to the heart of the matter around giving parents more choices to find the right education for their child or children, i know that rural areas have unique need and circumstances. Often when we think about offering choices, we think about bricks and mortar. We think about more infrastructure. Maybe thats not the right answer for all rural communities. Sen. Shelby maybe they have the infrastructure but not the teachers. Betsy devos yeah. And with regard to partnering with Higher Education for Charter Schools, i think that is a great idea to explore and would certainly encourage communities to look at that and explore that option. I would also encourage exploration of providing Virtual Learning for classes that they cant necessarily hire a teacher for. Different options, and certainly with technology, that affords us a lot wider band of options and would look forward to talking with you about how that might work. Sen. Shelby thank you. Im going to shift to Technical Education. You know, we have a lot of people going to the universities. Constituency my constituents , generally tell me one of the needs in america is a skilled workforce. A lot of the people arent going to college, but they need the skills for the marketplace. Both President Trump and you have stated strong support for career and Technical Education programs. However, this is troubling in the fiscal year Budget Proposal, 2018 there are large cuts proposals to the career and Technical Education state grants program. This Program Provides resources to states and local institutions so they can determine how career and Technical Education programs best fit their communities, their work force, their needs, their scrying needs. When your department was creating the 2018 budget, what were the perceived implications of cutting the Technical Education program there, and how does the department of education expect to be able to continue to effectively meet the needs of our state, all of our states, if you are going to cut the programs rather than improve them . Betsy devos well, senator, you are right about the emphasis that we are placing on career and Technical Education and opportunities for students in that direction. And while the budget does reflect a cut in career and technical support, it still maintains nearly 1 billion in support for those programs, and he also calls out a special 20 Million Investment in stem program and initiatives. But more broadly speaking, i think there is an opportunity to look at how some of these efforts have been siloed between departments. And you know the reality is that the department of labor also has a lot of programs that have some overlap with this kind of education. We ought to be looking holistically again as we look at higher at bills ed bills, we are to be looking holistically about how to best support and advance the opportunities that students have through career and Technical Training. I had the opportunity to visit three really great Community Colleges that have very extensive stemrelated and career and Technical Training programs. It was a pleasure and a joy to see how they partnered with the needs of the businesses in their Geographic Area to really meet the needs of their businesses and the students that they are supporting. Sen. Shelby do we need to tailor our educational system to the marketplace, to the job in demand out there for people . Betsy devos we know there are about 7 million jobs that require skilled training that are going unfilled. So yes, there is a real need to offer these opportunities and to have real good dialogue and communication between those that have the opportunities and those students that may not actually know about them today. Sen. Blunt thank you senator , shelby. Senator shaheen. Senator shaheen thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary devos, you started your Statement Today talking about a young man named michael. I would like to tell you about a young man named raymond wrote a letter about the summers youth connection, which is a 21st Century Learning Center in summersworth, New Hampshire. And he talks about what a difference syc, which is what they call the summer for youth connection has made for him and , the community. Raymond says, growing up, life wasnt easy never knowing my , real parents, being poor and moving made life top. I was ten when i moved from raymond to summersworth. I always felt like an outcast without any friends. I would see kids having fun, laughing, running around like they didnt have a worry in the world. I was there with everything on my shoulders. Months of passing by a cafeteria filled with these kids after school, i decided to go in. I was greeted by a man that i would begin to look up to and become friends worth friends with. He gave me the paperwork to go the next following days. Ever since that day, syc has been part of my life. He goes on to say without syc, summersworth wouldnt be the same. This has had the biggest impact in this community. You talked in your Opening Statement about Education Programs needing to yield meaningful results. Well, this 21st Century Learning Center and dozens of others like this one for thousands of students in New Hampshire has yielded meaningful results. And yet this budget that has been proposed would take away those opportunities for kids like raymond. What should you say to raymond and to other students who are no longer going to have a place to go after school who are then going to go home without supervision, where they can get into trouble because their parents arent going to be home, who are not going to have the homework assistance, who are not going to have the help they need to succeed in school . What do you say to somebody like raymond . Betsy devos well senator, thank story, and thank you for the opportunity that the flexibility that the essa legislation actually affords for situations like this. I am hopeful that and i would encourage that New Hampshire, as planare putting their essa together, they think about what programs and what areas are best supported. They have a lot of flexibility. Sen. Shaheen a school like New Hampshire i am sorry to interrupt you, but a state like New Hampshire doesnt have the funds to put together program if you take away the federal dollars that support these atrisk kids. I want to go on to follow up senator durbins question about Student Loan Debt, because we also have the highest average Student Loan Debt in the country. We have more than 52,000 students who receive subsidized loans from the department. We have an average of 36,000 per student graduating with Student Loan Debt. So again, why are you reducing opportunities for students to earn the money they need for college by eliminating the workstudy program, eliminating the opportunity to get those subsidized Student Loans . Betsy devos senator, if i could refer back to one moment to the 21st century program. The reality is that less than hoff of the students that qualified for that are actually participating in the program. Of those that do, they attend very infrequently, and there has been shown no outcomes in general. Sen. Shaheen that data may be true nationwide. That data is not true in New Hampshire. So why are you going to make the students in New Hampshire suffer for the fact that there are programs in some places that arent working as well as they should . And isnt that the departments job to try and make sure those programs work the way they are supposed to for kids . Because in New Hampshire, they are working. Betsy devos and i think that New Hampshire has the opportunity to support programs that are working. Again, flexibility there is , plenty of flexibility in the other funds going to New Hampshire. Sen. Shaheen well there is flexibility if you have money. If there arent dollars there, how can we support these kinds of programs . And thats the challenge. When you eliminate knows efforts that are making a difference for students, whether it be students in college who need help with their Student Loan Debt or atrisk kids after school. They dont have any other options. And so what do we tell those , students who are going to see their lives changed and disappointed because these are no longer available . Betsy devos i think it is really important for us to remember that only 8 of the funding for education broadly comes from the federal government. 92 , the states. The states are sen. Shaheen believe me, i understand, as a former governor who struggled for years with trying to Fund Education in New Hampshire, i totally get that. But i also understand when a program is working for students and making a difference in their lives, to pull that rug out from under them with nowhere else to go is a defeat for the policy and a defeat for the student. Thank you. Betsy devos i am confident New Hampshire will be able to figure that out if it is a really great program. Sen. Blunt senator, alexander. Senator alexander thank you, mr. chairman. Madam secretary, welcome. First, a very quick question about elementary and secondary education. Better teacher evaluation. The other is orders from washington. I think the reason we got 85 votes for the law fixing no child left behind was because so many people from unions to governors were tired of so many orders from washington. You are going to be approving a plan from every state about how to spend its title i funds. The law says you can only approve them. You can only fail to approve it if it doesnt follow the law. Will you follow the law or will you be tempted to use your own policy ideas in approving or rejecting state plans . Betsy devos senator, we will be following the law and approve plans as congress has intended. Sen. Alexander we also put in a prohibition to say that while there is a waiver in the law for exceptional circumstances, we did not want the secretary of education conditioning the waiver by using the secretarys own ideas about what a community might do. Will you respect the law saying you may not use the waiver to condition receipt of federal funds to follow your own ideas of what a community might do . Betsy devos thats correct, sir. I will definitely respect that. Sen. Alexander madam secretary, we have talked before about this report the Higher Education community did. This was at the request of senator mikulski, senator bennett, senator byrd and me. Give us specifics about what you dont like about the jungle of red tape that takes away money that interferes with their 6000istrative success, colleges and universities, money that might be better used for students. About a dozen can be done solely by the secretary. Four of the 10 most important can be done solely by the secretary. I think you know what those are. They have to do with simplifying return of title iv funds, updating financial responsibility standard, modifying distance education. There is also another one that would streamline the reporting data that now comes over an annual service. Will you make a priority and give your attention to the dozen proposals within the report to get rid of the jungle of red tape and Higher Education, the things that you can do yourselves . Will you make that a priority . Betsy devos yes, sir. In fact we are well under way with examining the steps to take examine what exactly has been recommended. With regard to one of them, look at all of the regulations that is that coincides with the , president s executive order to review regulations in every department. We have gun a deep dive into all of those. You have my commitment to continue that process. Sen. Alexander our Authorization Committee that senator murray and i chair, we hope to make Higher Education a top priority soon. There has been a lot of bipartisan work within our community. Committee. For example, dozens of senators have worked to take this 108question College Application form that 20 million families fill out every year. We have an equal number of democrats and republicans that are ready to change this. We even have suggested, senator bennett and i getting it down to , two questions. President obama said he thought he could get down to a third of the questions. Our staff think they have it down to two dozen questions. Will you work with us . The department cant do that all by itself. Will you work with us to make a priority getting rid of this unnecessary burden on families who are applying for federal student aid . Betsy devos absolutely. Sen. Alexander and also, we have bipartisan proposals that would simplify the number of loans. This is also in the president s budget. That came after many hearings that we would do that. And simplify the number, the way to repay federal Student Loans. I have had College President s tell me they had a hard time repaying their kids Student Loans because it was so complicated. We have bipartisan consensus of cutting that down to two. So will you also work with us as we work through the Higher Education act to simplify the repayment of Student Loans and the number of Student Loans, which is one way you can help improve access to college . Betsy devos yes, indeed. This contains the proposal to consolidate down to one repayment plan. I think it is a good step toward simplification. Sen. Alexander thank you, madam secretary. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Blunt thank you, senator alexander. I think we will have after we are done with this first round, a chance for a second round of questions, if anybody has more questions and want to be sure and stay for that. We are going by order of attendance, and so senator schatz is next. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Madam secretary, thank you for being here. As you know, the budget calls for 9 billion in cuts to the department of education. Just a point of clarification. In your budget there was discussion of whether this was an omb or a usdoe budget . This is your budget . Betsy devos this is our budget working in concert with omb. Ok. And in the budget in several places it states that the programs that are cut to the tune of 9 billion could be supported by, quote, other federal, state, local, private sources. But this is contrary to the evidence. As you likely know, state funding for education has been declining at all levels, state, county, and city. And i know you know that there is not private Foundation Money to the tune of 9 billion a year. So how are we going to come up with 9 billion, or do you think there should be 9 billion less spent in education overall . Betsy devos well, sir, i think that the approach to the budget was to make some tough decisions and recognize the fact that money is not limitless and respect the taxpayer. Sen. Schatz hold on one second. That is not what you said. You said the programs that are cut could be supported by federal, state, local and private sources. You do not say that we are in a constrained fiscal environment and we would like to spend more if we could. It seems that there are sort of two ways to approach 9 billion worth of cuts. One is, we want to make 9 billion worth of cuts. We think this is in the best interest of Public Education and private education, because we think the federal government should play less of a role and the burden should shift to the private sector and to local does. That is one philosophy. The other is we dont have enough money. If we could do more, we would do more. What philosophy are you articulating in this budget . Betsy devos some of the programs that have been recommended for scaling back or cutting our duplicative. Some are ineffective and some could be better supported by state, local or philanthropic efforts. Sen. Schatz do you include the cut of 30,000 teachers federally funded in a category called duplicative or could be supported by some other entity . Betsy devos i dont know exactly what 40,000 teachers you are referring to. But if you are talking about the Teacher Training Program sen. Schatz no, i am talking about title ii when it comes to 40,000 teachers salaries. Betsy devos for reducing class sizes . Is that what you are trying to suggest . Those funds have been used for a broad range of teacher initiatives. They have been very thinly sen. Schatz go ahead. Betsy devos they have been very thinly spread, and in many cases, like 20 of the cases, the fund are less than are 10,000 to a school. And so there has not been effective there has not been evidence of great outcomes of effectiveness from this program. Sen. Schatz have you talked betsy devos through title i sen. Schatz i dont think betsy devos the implementation of essa allows for great flexibility in the states to target resources to effect those Teacher Training Programs and teacher improvement programs. Sen. Schatz but this goes back betsy devos so there is a lot of opportunity to use them to enhance teachers effectiveness. Sen. Schatz ok, i really do have limited time. This goes back to what former governor shaheen mentioned, which is that you are imagining revenue not in evidence. You are imagining flexibility that does not exist at the local level. Instance 21st for career certaining learning centers or what is happening in career and Technical Education, these dollars afforded to 40,000 teachers across the United States, you say that will be handled by the private sector or flexibility. You reduce the flexibility that Education Systems have by reducing the funding that they have. It is sort of a rhetorical device to say they will be basking in new flexibility. Anybody who has run a government or anybody who has run a school doesnt want flexibility. They want resources, and what you are doing is cutting them massively. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Betsy devos actually what i have heard from a lot of state and local leaders is that they do want and need flexibility. Sen. Blunt thank you senator , schatz. Sen. Lankford . thanks for your service and for stepping up to be able to take on this. I would have to tell you, there is not a person on this dais that doesnt support education. We have 50 Million Students that are involved in elementary and secondary education and 20 million in Higher Education. That is 70 million americans. Thats an awful lot of families and people that are directly affected based on what is going on. We are all exceptionally passionate about this. But i will tell you in my short time of being in the appropriations budget, it is a fairly rare moment to sit in any hearing and to have a conversation about how we reduce federal spending. It seems to be every request that comes from every agency is we need additional funds. There is always more to do. There is no question. For someone to come and say, we have to be able to find a way to serve students answer the tax payers as well is a fairly rare conversation around these parts. Let me just ask some clarification. You brought up about this 1 billion increase in title i funds dedicated to furthering options for children to unlock success. The question came out and you alluded to it earlier how is , this different than race to the top . And there was concern from this dais that when president barack obama was putting in race to the top, it was really a requirement from the federal government if you want these dollars, you have do our curriculum, do it our way. And if you dont do it our way, you cant get the dollars that came out of your state to come back to your state. How is this different than race to the top . Betsy devos so the proposal is very much voluntary on the part of states. It is only if states want to and local education agencies and authorities want to attempt a, an experiment really to allow students to attend other Public Schools in their region. It is in no way going to be mandated from the top that this has to happen. In order to do so, there has to be money to follow the child to the other school. So that is really the framework around which states or local districts would be able to opt into or adopt that part of it. Sen. Lankford does it give instructions to those states or those entities on how to do curriculum how to do testing , requirements . Betsy devos no. We have seen that movie. Sen. Lankford yeah, we all have. Grateful for that. Betsy devos there is a concern about the parent plus loan program. This is one of the things we are going to have to address at this dais in law as well. We want to be able to have the administrations assistance as we walk through this. Many colleges talk about the growing size of Student Loans on those families. And those are students that are taking it out. The colleges are made aware of the Student Loans. There are for those Student Loans and criteria. Loanss for those student and criteria. When you get to their parents in the parent plus loans, thats not true. Many parents in their 50s are acquiring 50,000 and 60,000 worth of Student Loans in addition to what their students have that will be garnished from their Social Security checks in the days ahead based object the based on the requirements. The colleges tell me they are not aware of that. They are able to work with students to limit their amount of Student Loans and to be able to counsel them, but they are not made aware of the parent plus loans an they continue to accelerate. It is becoming a bigger and bigger issue. Do you have any input or background on that . Betsy devos im aware of that issue. Really, it plays into the much larger question about how students are prepared and informed for their higher ed options and alternatives. And i think that as the higher ed legislationer is discussed, this is an area of concern that should be a part of that. Sen. Lankford we would love to have your cooperation on that because we have to be able to resolve that. Betsy devos indeed. Sen. Lankford quick story. I had a superintendent at a predominantly africanamerican School District in this particular area of my state who came and called me a couple of years ago and said, we have got to have your help. The office of civil rights is out of control. I had heard that from Higher Education. I had heard that from secondary schools. Im hearing that again from debt yet another student and principle. The comments are, we want to be able to honor every student, but we are giving instructions from d. C. On how to be able to manage things. The president specifically gave instructions to be able to review regulations. I would assume that this is going to be all regulations in all areas, but i will tell you in particular in Higher Education, our universities work exceptionally hard to be able to make sure every student from every background is honored in the process. But they tell me over and over when someone comes out to do a title ix piece, they have been d. C. Tostructions from find something, stay and put something in the report and require the university to be able to write a letter. What i would like to work with you on in the days ahead, lets help them succeed, not actually put someone out there who will stay there until they find something to be able to put into a report. Lets walk alongside, and where there is a problem, lets correct it, but lets not humiliate schools in the process. I would love to be able to continue to work with your office on ways that is coming out. Betsy devos i will welcome that opportunity, senator. Sen. Lankford thank you, lankford. Senator merkley . Senator merkley thank you, mr. chairman. Thank you, madam secretary. If a private school or Charter School gets federal aid, they have to follow all the laws regarding discrimination. Is that correct betsy devos . Thats correct. Senator merkley i want to be absolutely clear about what you are saying. Are you saying if you have a private school because private schools generally set their own admission policies, that they will not be allowed under your program to discriminate against lgbtq students . Betsy devos senator, i said it before and i will say it again. Schools that receive federal funds must follow federal law. Sen. Merkley and i just said federal law is foggy. So with your understanding of federal law, will this be allowed . Betsy devos on areas where the law is unsettled, this department is not going to be issuing decrees. Sen. Merkley will you please just answer the question. Is discrimination going to be allowed or not allowed . Under your understanding . Betsy devos on areas of unsettled law sen. Merkley i say this is such an area . Betsy devos the congress has to decide and settle. Sen. Merkley are you refusing to answer the question . Betsy devos i am going back to what i said earlier. Sen. Merkley what you said earlier didnt help us. It is an area of unsettled law. You said where it is unsettled, such discrimination will continue to be allowed under your program. If that is incorrect, please correct it for the record. How about discrimination based on religion . Will such discrimination be allowed with charter or private schools . Betsy devos again, on schools for schools that receive federal funds, federal law must be followed. Sen. Merkley what is that law in this case your understanding . Will such religious discrimination be allowed . Answer the question. Betsy devos schools that receive federal funds will follow federal law, period. Sen. Merkley ok. You are refusing to answer the question. I think that is important for the public to know. Today, the secretary of education before this committee refused to affirm that she would put forward a program that would ban discrimination based on lgbtq status of students or would ban discrimination based on religion. Betsy devos no that is not what , i said. Discrimination in any form is wrong. Sen. Merkley i asked you to clarify. Betsy devos i dont support discrimination in any form. Sen. Merkley does your program ban such discrimination, yes or no . Betsy devos what program are you talking about . Sen. Merkley your Charter School and your private school Grant Program. Betsy devos as i said before, and let me say it again, schools that receive federal fund need to follow federal law, period. Sen. Merkley you are not answering the question. Ok. Lets turn to your cost of college. You say that you want to reduce the burden of debt, but you have established a new program that is actually the same program. We have an incomedriven repayment program. But you have made it more expensive. How does that help a student pay for college if you take an existing program and make it more expensive, by 76 billion i might add . Betsy devos the proposal is to move to a 12. 5 Discretionary Income program. Actually i saw an example of this the other day. It will sunset after 15 years versus 20, and it actually in the end ends up being less costly for students under the 15 years. Sen. Merkley let me point out that your budget takes 76 billion out of that program by raising it from 10 to 12. 5 . And doesnt it require additional years if you have a graduate student loan involved . Betsy devos thats correct. Sen. Merkley isnt that 30 years . Betsy devos 30 years for graduate students. Sen. Merkley thank you. Wouldnt it be better for a student to do work study to reduce the amount of debt that they have, but you cut in half the federal Work Study Program . Why not encourage students to be able to hold a job in college and reduce their debt rather than making them have a higher debt . Betsy devos we are proposing reducing the Work Study Program but not eliminating it. Sen. Merkley right, but do you see the logic to my point that students, low income students struggling with massive debt, wouldnt that person be better off being able to work in college and reduce their debt . Betsy devos i think it is great for students to work in college. And work does not have to be limited to oncampus activity. There are other opportunities. But the Work Study Program is targeted to undergraduate students, not to graduate School Students. Sen. Merkley but anything that reduces the amount of debt in the pell grant you put forward doesnt keep pace, because you freeze it for that time period, doesnt keep pace with the inflation of Public Schools. So students come from having pell cover roughly 30 to covering only 25 . Doesnt that make it harder for americas students who are from working and struggling families to pay for college . Betsy devos well we believe , that having yeararound options is going to help students get through school much more quickly if they choose to. And the pell program is a very Important Program for students most in need. Sen. Merkley do you would you like to repropose a pell program that does keep pace with inflation so that it covers the same percent for working families . Betsy devos the fell program i , think the max award is 5920. It is an Important Program that has received Priority Funding in this budget. We want to continue to encourage those who are most vulnerable , and the populations that are most in need of our support to pursue Higher Education, but i go back again to what i said earlier on a broader scale. We have to do a much better job of talking with students early on about their wide range of options. Sen. Merkley ok thank you. , my time has expired. But let me just note that the secretary sen. Blunt senator merkley, your time has expired. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and madam secretary. I want to say at the outset to thank you for the yeararound pell initiatives i think in a , state like West Virginia, that will have great meaning and certainly across the country. I do have to express some frustration. I have been trying to talk to you about a very specific situation that exists at West Virginia State University regarding the upward bound program. Upward bound has fupgsed functions on the campus of western Virginia State cu for 50y, an hb years. Unbenounced to them, they have gotten knocked out of this program. They have had their error on their work sheet, not even on their actual application was 104 over the maximum. Ended4 on a worksheet has a 150 year relationship 50 year relationship. I have cosigned two letters with my colleagues here in the senate because other upward bound programs are experiencing this great frustration. Last week, you testified in the house that you were going to have a willingness to review these rejected applications, and i am asking you for the same commitment today, and if you have gun doing that . Betsy devos senator, thanks for the question. The upward bound situation as you know brought great frustration to me when i discovered that competition that was open and closed before i ever got in this role was rejecting applicants based on formatting errors. Sen. Capito right. Betsy devos we are talking about two Different Things here. Formatting versus budget. The only way we could actually revisit the 77 applicants that were rejected because of formatting errors was because of the action in the omnibus bill that specifically said to look again at the formatting errors and an additional appropriation in accompanying that. So were talking apples and oranges here, unfortunately. And though i would love to be able to look that the one again, we can not. Sen. Capito well i dont accept , that you cant relook at something. I have got letters here from the students that are in that program. Many of them students that have no options. They have parents that havent gone to college. They, for the first time, their grade point averages have gone up. Several of them have are in really desperate family situations, where, if it were not for upward bound, they would not have had the opportunity or the aspirations to attend college and further their education. I am asking again to look at that one again. I am going to move to Something Else again, something senator shaheen was talking about. Rural states, smaller states and budgets, and i am concerned about the 21st Century Learning Centers, having visited many of them myself in our state. 7000 kids in West Virginia will not receive services because of this cat. Cut. You are talking about after school, many times when parents are not there, the mentoring, the fun, the nutrition, the leadership skills, homework help, and all the things that occur in afterSchool Programs. I mean it is a situation where , if both parents are working, a lot of times we have so many Single Parents or grandparents who are raising children who cant, you know be home when the , children get home. What alternatives you mentioned in response to her the state is going to take that over, which she rejected because of funding issues. My state, senator manchin and our states, 500 million in the hole. I mean this is not something we , are going to be able to expand statewide. We have also you questioned whether they are successful. Of the Higher Education students participated in this program, in our state, there has been 100 graduation accomplishment, which is well above our statewide average. So i would ask you to relook at that. And again, talk about 21st century and why that was zeroed out in our budget. Your budget. Betsy devos thanks, senator. As i said earlier, the decisions to in the Budget Proposal were really based on some tough choices and tough decisions. And looking at programs that for their effectiveness and the amount of students that are served, and again the 21st century learning plan or 21st century programs are really reaching only less than half of the students for whom they are intended. And of half of the students that actually participate, there is very inconsistent participation on their part. So we were really trying to focus on actual education settings. You know 21st century is before , and after school, summertime, so forth, so not really focused on the core mission. As i said, tough choices. We made some tough choices and tough decisions around this. This one was deemed to be one that was not as effective and not as appropriate for funding proposal from this department. Sen. Capito thank you. Sen. Blunt senator manchin. Senator manchin thank you, mr. Chairman, and secretary devos for testifying today. One thing that keeps us bipartisan here in the senate is veterans and children. We seem to really cross over and really want to help. And i think we all very much care about that, but one size doesnt fit all. I would like to welcome a couple of West Virginians we have with us. They were very concerned about the planned cuts from the 20th century 21st Century Learning Centers. I have someone from the playmate preschool and Child Development center in cerita, West Virginia. Learning century sites. She has her children, brendan and aiden with her. Thank you for being here, and i hope you get a chance to meet with them. They are really quite something. Rural schools, we have talked about rural schools, the cuts and all this that are coming. I know you still feel strongly about the school of choice. In states such as West Virginia, over setting in West Virginia makes it hard. We dont have that luxury of having that choice because we have a lot of schools consolidated already, closing students lack of students an ,d things of this sort. With the cuts because of the support of the Choice Program in a state that doesnt have a Choice Program or an effective Choice Program that would work because of our ruralness, how can we make up that difference . Is there any flexibility that you have that we could work to help some of the schools, programs that were cut, through the money that they are not going to be asking from you for choice . Betsy devos well, senator, thanks for the question and more broadly the question around rural schools. As you know, the special line item for rural schools has been maintained and is proposed to be the same as it was for the last year. And that does provide rural schools the opportunity to do some things differently or in addition to what all of the funding through the other title plans do. But when it comes to addressing specific needs in West Virginia, i go back to the opportunity that the state has through its essa plan to really target in and focus on addressing the needs that West Virginian students have and the uniqueness there. The flexibility that is built in that you all put into that legislation to allow states and local districts to be able to do some things differently than they had been forced to do before. We believe you will find a lot of opportunity, and am hopeful that will see some creativity in that regard. Sen. Manchin let me talk about another subject here. Every Student Succeeds act included a new program called the title for iv students support academic and enrichment grants program. The block grant is designed to provide state and School Districts for wellrounded education. We are getting pummeled by the opiate addiction that goes on in our state and around this country. So i understand the department stripped the funding from the block grant that can be used to help states like mine that is being devastated by opiate addiction. I dont know whether you all realize the effect it is having in the family and the Family Support and why this was so important to states to try to build some type of a structure when it functionally has collapsed in the family or in the community because of opiate addiction. Well, the issue of opiate addiction is a very concerning one too many communities. Again, i go back to the contention that West Virginia has an opportunity to really focus. They dont have the money to do it. Thats the problem, when you cut it. We all have well and good intentions, i understand. The state is facing some budget challenges like other states. These programs are so vitally important to stabilize a structure that has fallen apart. The opiate addiction that affects the childs family is just devastating. The promised Neighborhood Program can help in that regard, i believe. I also want to go back to a comment that was made earlier about state and local School Budgets that are reducing and correct that. In fact, the spending estimate increase in state and local funding for education between this year and next year is expected to increase 21 billion in the state. So there is not a decrease in funding at the state and local level. There actually continues to be a greater investment on the part of state and local governments. We are going to hope that somebody from your department would come to West Virginia and go through our department with them and explain that. They are looking at it as cuts. Maybe there is some way we can work something out. We would love to do that. I know my time is running out. I want you to consider medicaid in schools. Medicaid in schools is sometimes the first line of delivery to some of these children that get any type of health care. It is very, very concerning to us. I hope you would consider that. I would love to get with your agency and sit down and see if we can have a visit to West Virginia. I would welcome that, thanks. Kennedy . Nang youthank you, mr. Chairman, madam secretary. Thank you for your service. My Research Shows that the department of educations discretionary budget has quadrupled from fiscal year 1989 to the current fiscal year. It has gone from 17. 1 billion to 68. 3 billion. Does that sound about right . That does sound about right, yes. I know that part of your job, the biggest part of your job is to advocate for education. Also, part of your job is to manage taxpayer money. Is that not the case . That is correct. Now, when you were sworn in and got comfortable at your department and you had a chance to go through the 68. 3 billion budget, did you find waste . We are finding waste pretty regularly and part of the president s admonition to us is to actually do a whole review of the department and that has been an initiated and i expect in the coming months we are going to have a lot more to say about that. Do you find it at all strange that in america now we seem to judge success and education by how much money we are spending as opposed to whether our kids are learning . I do find that strange. In fact, in the last administration, there was 7 billion invested specifically into schools that were failing or deemed failing to improve them. There was absolutely zero outcome from that investment. So, yes, the notion that spending more money is going to bring about different results i think is illplaced and illadvised. What do we spend on average throughout america per Public School student . I have read 12,000, 13,000 . It is between 12,000 and 13,000, i believe. I read once that slovakia spends about half the money but we rank the same. Have you seen that . I have seen those statistics, yes. You are aware, im sure, that some people dont like you because you support vouchers and Charter Schools . I am peripherally aware of that, yes. I have this theory about education in america. Our problem is not Higher Education. We have got the best colleges and universities in the world. We have a problem paying for kids to go there. People from all over the world want to come here to further their education. Our problem is elementary and secondary education. Americans have demonstrated that they can do extraordinary things. We can i was out at nih yesterday. We can unravel the human genome. We can take a human heart and replace it with a new one and make that thing beat. We can send somebody to the moon and bring them back but we cant seem to teach our kids how to read and write and do basic math when we have got 18 years to do it. Thats true. I dont understand that. Now, i will support anything, and i suspect you are the same, i dont care what the political cost is i am willing to try just about anything to improve element tear and elementary education, including vouchers and school of choice and Charter Schools. I can go down to my overpriced capitol hill grocery and choose among about six different types of mayonnaise. How come i cant do that for my kid in school . Let me im almost done with my time. What percentage of the elected officials in america that give advice about elementary and secondary Public Education do you think really know what it is like to be in a classroom . I think thats a very good question. I dont have the answer to that but it is a really good question to ponder. Would you support a bill that said that any elected official, we may have to narrow it down, any elected official that makes policy for elementary and secondary education, should be required to substitute teach in a Public School at least once a year . That would be an innovative approach for sure. Now, i want you to understand. Im not talking about going to a civics class and talking about how a bill becomes a law. A real teacher. You start at quarter to 7 00 and go to 2 45. You do lunch duty and bus duty and you teach four or five classes. It is you and the kids. That would be an interesting exercise for sure. Well talk about it. Im out of time. Thank you, senator kennedy. Thank you, senator. Thank you, senator kennedy. Senator baldwin. Thank you. Secretary devos, we had a chance to meet prior to your confirmation hearing and you and i talked about a lot of issues. One of the things that appeared to be an area of agreement was the importance of career and Technical Education, otherwise known as cte. As a cochair of the senate cte caucus, it is an issue of great importance to me and certainly to my home state of wisconsin. I look at your proposed budget cuts for the perkins career and Technical Education act. It is 168 million cut and the more than 1. 5 billion in cuts through the elimination of the Student Support and academic enrichment grant and the 21st Century Community learning Centers Program that some of my colleagues have been asking you about from both sides of the aisle, both of these programs request be used to support Stem Education. Instead, you propose an unauthorized 20 million competitive grant for career and Technical Education programs in stem fields. So i want to ask you how would 20 million for competitive grants make up for or replace the more than 1. 5 billion in formula funding for programs that could support career and Technical Education and Stem Education efforts in every state . Senator, thanks for that question. Let me reiterate, we do share the real interest in ensuring na that students have all the options on the table for pursuing really great futures through career and Technical Education. I want you to speed up your answer because i have two more questions i want to get in in the time. So get to it. As we talk about Higher Education legislation, i think career an Technical Education need to be a part of that broader discussion. Right now, we have a lot of efforts that really overlap this housed in the department of labor and administered there. So you are suggesting that this 20 million competitive grant would do the job. Disperse some innovation and creativity. It is meant to spur innovation, encourage and foster innovation and creativity. While eliminating the others. I want to get on to my next question. College affordability is a huge issue. Your budget would make college less affordable for students in my state. It targets three campusbased programs, perkins loans, the federal Work Study Program and the supplemental education opportunity grant, all of which allow campuses to target and finetune Financial Aid to students they know to be in need. Sometimes saving from a situation where somebody is about to drop out. Yet your budget slashes all of them, including the supplemental education opportunity grants. It cuts work study in half and supports an end to the perkins loan program. That program, by the way, has provided over 60 million in aid to students in need in wisconsin this past academic year. It also cuts billions from other programs that make college more affordable like federal subsidized loans and Public Service loan forgiveness, which breaks a promise in my mind. Just some of these cuts in aggregate in my home state would mean that we would lose about 107 million in fine assistance to students. How do these truly drakonian cuts reflect anything other than an effort to push college further out of reach to more and more young people . The budget really seeks to make college and higher ed options more flexible for students. The perkins the campusbased program. Was not reauthorized. Because they are controlled at the local level. The perkins funding was not reauthorized by congress. It is in effect right now. Well, again, going back to the bigger picture, offering yeararound pell and and giving more flexibility to students to pursue their education as quickly or over as long of a period they need, realizing that students today have different needs and are going to go about their higher ed in different manners, the other program to which you were referring, the ciag, is dueplicate of pel. The students that get the most out of it through the pel Program Secretary devos, i am going to cut you off. We have run out of time. I hope to get to a third question. I will submit it for the record relating to the title nine guidance to schools about the rights of transgender students. Thank you. Thank you for being here today, madam secretary. It strikes me, this whole debate about education. I approach it as someone who went to Public School my entire life who would not have been able to go to College Without pell grants. I paid sally may a lot of my money. Over 130,000 in Student Loans. It strikes me, all these debates we have about education nowadays are basically about how much money we out or not put into a model of Public Education. One of the nuances. Im not accusing you of this. The question is, how does this budget account for this reality that i see it with four children still in the k through 12 system. How does the budget account for this new reality that what we are dealing with is incredibly nuanced and complex . I have three teachers in my family. Thanksgiving and christmas is always interesting, one is an assistant principal, my sister. One of the things we do that the other countries dont do is we teach everybody. We should. There are places if you are disabled, if you dont get enough grades in second grades, they stop trying with you. We dont and should never do that. That makes us unique. Children bring to the classroom everything, they bring it all. So if a child, here is the reality, if a child is living in a dangerous neighborhood in sub standard housing in a broken home, this child is going to struggle to learn unless there are things in place to assist them inside and outside the school. That costs money. Not only does it cost money, it takes innovation to try to figure out what work ns as in a certain placein a wont work another. This summer, right now, we are a few days awhichay from school letting out, if the kids dont stay on school work, they are going to lose a lot of what they learned. We are able to afford some help in that regard. In years and years of these disparities build up, by the time a child is in 7th, 8th, 9th grade, they are literally behind the curve and do not have an equal opportunity of success because of so seec yo and economic problems. The reality of it is that the nuances are difficult and in particular as our society continues to change and become diverse. One of the things you experience, a reality, the best schools in Miamidade County where i live are Public Schools. A lot of people pay to take their kids out of those schools because they are paying for environment, because they have a bad perception that may not be based on reality or whatever it may be. There i excellent work happening at our Public Schools across this country. In a country ha has become so diverse and so different geographically and along so many different lines, how does this budget account for that in terms of the federal role in incentivizing competition and innovation while still understanding in order to address some of the basic things in the School System if a kid does not have access to wifi, nowadays, they are going to struggle to be able to complete homework. If they dont have access to a computer network, an electronic device, they are going to struggle. Thats a fact. Among other things. A child is showing up to school hungry, if the child is homeless, living in an environment that is not conducive to learning. If a child doesnt have someone at night thats making sure they are doing their homework or following up or interacting with teachers, they are going to struggle. I understand the School System and government cannot step in and fill the entire gap. How does this budget account for this . We want an Education System that lives up to our motto that all of us are created equal and we all deserve the equal opportunity to fulfill our godgiven potential. Senator, thank you. I couldnt agree more with everything that you have just said about the students and our opportunities. This budget seeks to fund and give the greatest amount of flexibility to states and local authorities to make the decisions that are best and are going to be best for the students that they are serving. It seeks to turn over control and one size fits all topdown mandated approach that has been a part of this department for a number of years. And really recognize the fact that every student, every child is unique. It starts to in some ways help empower parents to make decisions for children, for their children not based on their zip code. The assigned school to which they are forced to attend sometimes. It really does seek to shift that focus toward states, local communities, and more importantly to the parent to allow the parents to make the decisions that are right on behalf of their children. It certainly doesnt get us all the way there. I believe fundamentally that parents should have that empowerment and that right. We talk about parent allen parental engagement. When parents have an investment because of a proactive decision they have made, there is a lot more engagement naturally as a result of that. My time has expired. Not a question but you would agree the ability of a child to learn is not simply based on the classroom experience . All these other programs we debate, whether these kids are eating, have access to health care, all of these other things are relevant factors . Indeed. Thank you, senator rubio. Senator murphy . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here, madam secretary. With all due respect to my colleague from louisiana, education is not mayonnaise. Frankly, the day that we start treating the education of our children like we do the we do the marketing of a condiment is the day weve given up on our kids, and thats at the foundation of my worry about some of the proposals you put forth in your budget. K12 is a forprofit operator. It was a forprofit operator, one of the biggest in the country. Your family was invested in it, a New York Times article on this organization said that a portrait emerges of this company as trying to squeeze profits from Public School dollars by raising enrollment, increasing teacher work load, and lowering standards. As a researcher at the university of colorado said, the people running these forProfit Companies are fundamentally trying to do to Public Education what the banks did with home mortgages. You and i have a fundamental disagreement. I just dont think theres any room in our Public Education for individuals making millions of dollars, making their fortune off of taxpayer dollars, but to the extent you want to move more public dollars into the private sector, some of it will end up in the hands of these forprofit Charter School operators, so my question is, does your proposal require any of these companies to disclose their profits . Will it cap the salaries of these ceos . What protections are will be in your specific protections will be in your proposal in your program to make sure that taxpayer dollars dont just end up enriching the pockets of the folks that own these companies . Senator, thanks for that question. I think your question more broadly is better framed around what are students achieving, and i think the question is not what the tax status is that wasnt my i dont think the question is the tax status no, that was my question. The question is not, in my view, its not the tax status of the school, its what are students achieving. Are you going to have any view of my question as you want, but my question is what protections will be on taxpayer dollars to make sure the heads of these companies dont end up being millionaires or billionaires off of the operation of these schools . If parents are making choices regardless of the tax status of the school to which they are sending them, whether its a forprofit managed institution or not, i think those are the better measures to be oriented around. Heres i understand that your question is there will be no protections for taxpayer dollars. I understand that you have a belief in the market, that that will end up solving the problems that may encounter, but heres my worry. You spent some time today talking about students in connecticut, and i fundamentally dont believe that this administration cares about the outcomes of students at East Hartford high school, because if you did, you wouldnt be proposing these massive cuts, talking about massive cuts for after School Programs that help places places like East Hartford, cuts in career education, teacher training. All youre giving is the opportunity to choose a different school, but the fact of the matter is, thats not a panacea, right . In michigan alone, right, 70 of the charters in detroit ranked in the bottom 25 of the states schools. And you cant just chock that up to the difficulty of educating kids in detroit, because the majority of africanamerican kids that were attending charter districts statewide performed worse than many of the students in those city schools. So, ultimately to me this cant be about the kids in East Hartford, because if it was, you wouldnt be taking all this funding away from them, and you wouldnt just be throwing them out into a marketdriven system that seems mostly about enriching the salaries of the ceos who run these companies. This seems about a massive transfer of money from the Public Sector to the private sector with no protections around it. So i would hope that in devising this proposal, you will go back and think about making sure that kids get protected, right, whether they are in a Public School or private school, and that our taxpayer dollars dont end up simply being transferred to pad the pockets of the folks that are operating these schools. I understand that you talked a lot about students in East Hartford, connecticut, but i dont see anything here that will help these kids. All of their programs get cut that matter, right, massive cuts in support for Public Education, and then an invitation to go into the private sector, and in the private sector theyll find good schools and theyll find bad schools, but those private sector schools or Charter Schools will be enduring the same set of cuts that come to the Public Schools, and in the end it may simply be a way to pad the pockets of the folks that operate the schools. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator maran . Chairman, thank you very much. Madam secretary, thank you for joining us. Let me ask, when i was last in the room, senator blunt, chairman blunt, was asking about pell grants. Let me make certain i have an answer to a question ive been asked. We authorize pell grants in the fy17 budget for yearround, socalled yearround pell. How are the colleges and universities cannot distribute that aid until the department of education issues guidance. Summer courses have already started on many of our College Campuses. How soon will the guidance be issued and will it be in time to be utilized by students for this summers classes . Thanks, senator. Yes, indeed, were on track to have them ready for launching the program july 1st, so for the summer. Just a reminder that some classes have already started, but thats good to know they can include this summer in that plan. Yes. All right. Idea funding in a conversation you and i had, you committed yourself working with me to make sure i. D. E. A. Is fully funded, and it appears that the president s budget, the Administration Budget is level funding. Thats not always bad in todays environment, but i would again ask you if there was not a way you could prioritize any of the funding thats included in the budget toward i. D. E. A. As compared to Something Else or the decisions that you made were based that other things are a higher priority. Yes, well, actually, the level funding would actually represent almost if youre looking at the cuts to other areas, we have a real commitment to funding i. D. E. A. , and as you probably recall when i. D. E. A. Was originally passed, the target was to support it at the 40 level. The current funding has run somewhere around 15 , and certainly if congress wanted to approach a higher level of funding for i. D. E. A. , the students that we serve are certainly deserving of that. I think your point being that in todays with cuts in other programs, level funding, i. D. E. A. Was a priority for you . Certainly is a priority, yes. Let me ask you about title i. Theres a billion dollar increase in the budget request for title i, but its over and above other funding at title i, and that additional 1 billion is to support local education agencies who adopt an open enrollment system. Again, in a conversation that you and i had, you committed to me that you would not support, the department would not support, mandating options for states uninterested, states and local boards of education, uninterested in having that option. Correct. Thats still true . That is still true. And i can in fact, it would be perhaps better if you would reassure folks in kansas that there is not money, pardon me, thats coming from current funding for title i that is being used elsewhere. That is correct. That is correct. The proposal is to level fund title i funding and then have an additional billion dollars that would be available to states that want, states or local districts, that wanted to opt into a Public School Choice Program in their geography. But no state that doesnt make that option would have title i funds reduced. Correct. Let me mention finally impact aid, and just reiterate to you its importance and to remind you and the administration of its value, particularly in the president s stated desire of supporting our military men and women and their families. We need to make certain that impact aid is appropriately supported, and while i make that statement, i would welcome any response that you might have. Correct, and the Budget Proposal does continue to fund impact aid programs with the exception of the recommendation for payments for federal property where there are no federally connected children involved. And kind of a reminder that i think its been 40 years since the legislation was initially passed, and hopefully those areas would have been able to figure out that taxbased issue over the period of 40 years, but there are no children involved with that particular piece of the federal impact aid budget. Thank you, madam secretary. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Senator reid . Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you, madam secretary. Following along a similar line of questioning that senator murphy engaged in, is it the proposal that these forprofit Elementary Schools either or nonforprofit, must take all children that apply . Is that a requirement . The im sorry, sir, the forprofit Elementary Schools . You have a parent that wants to go to a particular school, a forprofit school, notforprofit school, Public School, would that school be required to take the student . Receiving federal funds . Youre proposing a voucher system. Im just trying to understand the hypothetical question. If there are schools that are receiving federal funds, they need to follow federal law. So a private forprofit school would have to take a disabled student. They couldnt reject anyone who showed up with a voucher. Any school that is receiving federal funds has to follow federal law, period. But what does that mean . Specific question, would they have to just what i said, theyd have to follow the federal laws. Theyd have to accept a disabled child, they would have to have an individual education plan, which they would follow, it would be exactly like a Public School. Is that your position . If the school is accepting federal funds let me ask another question. Let me also refer to the fact that states have implemented programs that for disabled students that parents willfully elect into and opt into. Parents are making those decisions. There is no requirement. Thats what im saying, the parent decides they want to go to this school and they come up. The school would have to accept that student. If the student had severe disabilities, they would have to accommodate their program to deal with that students special disability. Is that your position . If a school is accepting federal funds, they are going to follow federal law. So the voucher that is used to pay i will repeat again, if they are accepting federal funds, theyll follow federal laws. You would consider that voucher federal funds requiring them to follow federal law . Well, first of all, there is no Voucher Program currently, so this is all a hypothetical question. Its not hypothetical. It is. Youre going to publish rules, madam secretary, thats going to say you have to follow federal laws if you accept this voucher, which is federal funds. Ive said before that if a school is accepting federal funds, they have to follow federal laws. So let me ask you a question. A forprofit school accepts a voucher, because thats what youre talking about, giving the parent the chance to move out of a public system into a private system. That would be considered by you the acceptance of federal funds, requiring the school to follow all the requirements that a Public School would follow . Any school that accepts federal funds will follow federal laws, period. Without discrimination. So your answer is yes. So the voucher system will trigger forprofit, private schools, or not for profit private schools to accept all students, as Public Schools do, to follow all the rules, particularly with regard to disabled children. Thats the only conclusion i can draw from your answers, which are rather cryptic. Let me turn now to the Higher Education issues. The pell grant you seem to be suggesting as the appropriate mechanism and the only appropriate mechanism, because most of the other federal programs are zeroing out. The supplemental Educational Opportunity grants, cutting federal student aid in half, and yet you take 3. 8 billion from the surplus of the pell grants rather than providing for additional larger pell grants, et cetera. How does that make college more affordable . Well, sir, the proposal is to take 3. 8 billion from the surplus, leaving 4. 9 billion in the surplus, and if there is a desire to increase the pell grant, you know, the pell grant amounts for students, i think that is something that you have to consider. Well, we already have 3. 8 billion in the pell grants system. The pell Program Continues to be fully funded and have supplemental resources there, so it will continue to be very healthy into the foreseeable system. Future, and if you want to adjust the pell rates, you certainly have the opportunity to do that. And you would support that with a Budget Authority . Im not suggesting it, im saying that if that if its your desire to increase it, you certainly have the opportunity to do that. We also have the opportunity to reject your suggestions and increase significantly the pell grants. I acknowledge that. Thank you very much, madam secretary. Well, thank you, senator. Were going to take time for a second round of questions if anybody wants to participate in that. I think senator murray and i both do. On the pell grant issue, when you go to yearround pell, that increases the pell potential by 50 . So the pell cap would be 8,880, and some observation was made here earlier that the pell grant only pays for 25 of education costs. That, obviously, depends on where you go, because a lot of places you can go that the pell grant pays for 100 of the education costs. May not pay for living cost, but i think we dont want to underestimate the impact of yearround pell to help people progress toward their goal of getting a degree, getting whatever they are in school to enhance their future abilities, but the annual cap now on pell if you choose to go year round would be 8,880, not 5,900. Doesnt mean we shouldnt look at the 5,900. It just means that that is not a cap that somehow spread out over 12 months instead of nine. That cap increases. Also i mention for senator kennedys test on education, senator murray and i both were Public School teachers, so we can pass the test. Were not sure that wed want to wish our colleagues on every student in america for even a day, but some of them would be really good, and some of them not so that would be interesting. Some of them not so good. Now on this issue of federal law thats come up several times, im not going to ask you to repeat what you said on that, but i would say that your predecessor wanted to write his own federal law. My impression is, thats not what you want to do, and the department in the past sent guidance letters. Didnt even want to go through the regulatory process that had input, sent guidance letters of what the secretary of education thought the federal law should say, even though that clearly was not what the federal law did say. I dont believe its your job as secretary of education to decide what the federal law says. If its i agree. If its the department of education, not the place to settle what federal law says. Thats the job of either the courts or the congress, not the department of education, and i think thats what i hear you repeatedly saying, and i agree with that. Something you said i dont agree with on impact aid that no federally connected children involved. But if you have a if you have a School District that has National Forest, that has military facilities that your school buses have to run through, that you have lost that tax base. The argument for impact aid has always been that the federal government needs to in some way restore the lack of potential for a School District to deal with that issue that the federal with that issue that the federal government has created. You know, when the school bus has to drive another 60 miles because thats what it takes to get through the National Forest, even if there arent any students there, that 60 miles of no taxpayer is created by the federal government, and while the impact aid reduction is not a big reduction, it is a reduction, and the federal Property Program eliminating that payment of 69 million does impact these districts. And no matter how long the National Forest has been there as an example, it doesnt minimize the challenge that the School District has dealing with this large amount of federal property that can never be part of the property tax. A lot of property tax is paid on property that doesnt involve students. And so this issue that i think a lot of people on this committee will be interested in. Let me on one more quick question, because we do want to stay with our time on this, but on further options for children, the focus idea is that billiondollar idea would solely be focused on Public Education. Is that right . Thats correct. And youd have the opportunity to look at that as a district that had multiple schools or as a state. Either one, is that right . Intradistrict, state. Two districts together could come together and try to figure out how to make that work, and that is totally 100 a Public School Choice Program. Correct. All right, thank you. Senator murray . Thank you. Secretary devos, last month your committee released school crime and Safety Report for last year. Do you know what showed an increase . I would assume sexual assault. It was forcible sex crimes, and depending on the survey that you look at, we know that at least 1 in 5 women are being sexually assaulted on college campus, and thats one of the lowest estimates out there. That to me is really appalling and unacceptable, and your budget cuts the budget for the office of civil rights, which addresses those title ix enforcement on College Campuses, among other important civil rights work loads. My concern is that your Budget Proposal will leave ocr with about 60 fewer staff and the same high work load. And that is really concerning to me. That will really deny victims of Campus Sexual Assault violence timely resolution of their complaints and delay improvements on campuses that keep students safe. Dont you agree with that . Let me just say that ocr is level funded. It is not the the budget is not reduced. Were going back to bad numbers. We have to go by what we have approved, what current law is. The intention is to fully fund ocr based on whatever numbers again, were basing all of the budget numbers on the numbers prior to your action. Ok, current law, by current law it will reduce it by 60, and thats a fact. Your proposal. Let me just i have just a few minutes left, and i did want to ask you a couple pertinent requests that i have. First of all, its been widely reported that President Trumps Justice Department is telling agencies they have the Legal Authority to ignore written questions and requests for information from democrats, and im not going to ask for your opinion on their legal analysis regarding what youre required to do, but given that agencies certainly have the option to respond to inquiries and be transparent above and beyond what President Trumps white house is saying, i wanted to ask you, do you plan to respond to inquiries from democrats, or just ignore them and only respond to republicans . Senator, we have been responding to inquiries. In fact, i know that youve submitted 23 letters to me since ive been in office, and weve been able to respond to over half of them. I think eight of them came just in the last month alone, so we are definitely responding to letters as we can. Well, we have let me just say, i would just encourage if you have questions, i invited this the day i was confirmed. I really do want to work with you, and i would love to have we have not gotten those. I dont know if your staff is not handing those to you thats, i guess, going to snail mail. I just encourage you. Will you commit to responding to the letters we have sent to you . We have been responding, and we will commit to continuing to respond. Again, i just encourage that we sometimes talk. I think that might be a really good sometimes its really helpful to us to have answers in writing so we have that as a record. And i would really appreciate your getting those back to me. We have not seen them. And secondly, senator alexander asked about the implementation. We worked very hard in a bipartisan way to do that. I have a number of fairly technical questions. I dont want to take up this committees time, but my staff has been unable to get from you and your staff a full briefing on the implementation and how youre going to do that. Can i get a commitment from you that within the next two weeks from your staff to my staff . I believe that weve had ongoing conversations with your staff, but, yes, for whatever questions you dont yet have answered, we will certainly endeavor to do so. Ok, i would appreciate that. Extremely important we implement this in a way we all understand. Thank you. Senator cochran . Mr. Chairman, i think weve had a good hearing, and ive enjoyed the questions and answers that weve had before the committee. Because of constraints in other areas, im going to ask that my remaining questions be made a part of the record. Will have an opportunity for that and thats how that will be handled. Senator murray, then senator langford, and that will conclude this hearing after i make a final statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thanks for sticking around. I wanted to ask you about the state plans being submitted. When you and i talked prior to your nomination, we had, i thought, a good conversation about how i think there is a marriage between innovation and accountability that people are more willing to support innovation. More willing to support choice, frankly, if they believe theres real accountability. And we came together in a bipartisan way to pass the accountability section of the Obama Administration sent out regulations trying to be helpful to School Districts on how they would craft state plans that included accountability, and unfortunately republicans on this committee supported a Congressional Review Act process that stripped away those regulations, leaving you with the sole discretion to enforce the statute. And so one of the things thats important in those accountability regulations is the idea that the schools identify schools that need support that are constantly underperforming, and unfortunately, some of the plans that have been submitted either completely leave their policy around providing supports for underperforming schools undefined, or they propose policies that are really unclear or sometimes they are totally inconsistent with the law, you know, to say youre just going to have a policy of painting the walls of a school thats underperforming. That actually is not consistent with the law. So, can you give us some idea or some commitment that you are not going to approve a state plan unless it clearly identifies how its going to support schools that are constantly underperforming or subgroups that are constantly underperforming . I want to make sure youre not going to be a rubber stamp for these plans and youre going to hold states to the requirements, especially when it comes to these really vulnerable kids. Senator, thank you. I am, obviously, very interested in ensuring that the plans that states put forward comport to the law that congress has passed, and that is really going to be the measure by which the plans will be approved or not approved. If they follow and address all the parts of the law as congress has intended, the plans will have to be approved. Whether i agree with everything in the plans or not is another question, and whether you agree with everything in the plan, whether its, you know, robust enough or not, that, obviously, could be one a matter for interpretation, as well, but the intention is to approve plans that comport with the law and, you know, just parenthetically, i am very hopeful that states are going to be really creative as it comes to addressing some of these issues and taking a look in a new way, because, obviously, some of the things that weve been doing in the past hasnt been working as well. So let me i understand you cant opine on specific state plans, but if there are turn around proposals that are that you deem insufficient if there are supports that are not evidence based, do you reserve the ability to either deny those state plans or send them back . I want to make sure when you say creativity, that youre going to look at state plans and make sure the supports they are proposing are real supports, and if you dont believe that they are real supports, that you will not approve that plan or ask them to submit something new. Well, they are all required to comport with the law, so that will be the measure by which the plans will be approved. Im not going to invent new regulation or new law in order to accept or reject a state plan. But you will conduct an evaluation im trying to understand. Are you saying that you are not going to conduct an evaluation as to whether they are providing meaningful supports . What is going to be the standard by which you are going to judge whether they are providing meaningful supports. But the reason why we needed regulations is because the law is silent on that question. It just says they have to provide supports. Its up to you to decide whether those are meaningful supports. I think its up to the states and the local communities to determine what supports they are going to implement, and its going to vary from state to state, thats for sure, but the goal of the legislation was to return the power back to the states. What if they submit a plan that says they are going to paint the walls of the school . Thats a hypothetical. Is there any support you would deem to be insufficient under the statute . Can you imagine any support that you would reject . I am going to evaluate plans answer to that question is yes. The important thing is are they following the law or not . I may not agree with everything they suggested, but is there any support they could propose that you would deem insufficient under the law . I cannot say that. If it responds to the law as requested and required by the essa act, then they will have fulfilled the thank you. Senator langford . Thank you. Appreciate the long day and the long conversation on these issues. It is interesting to me that in the beginning of the Obama Administration, they came to this committee and requested funds for race to the top funds for additional dollars for someone in d. C. To be able to say there are additional dollars if you do our curriculum we pick, if youll do it our way, if you go through our plans, if you have a system we approve, well give you additional dollars. If im tracking this correctly, youre coming to this committee saying we would like additional dollars to get to schools if they pick a plan and they run a plan, and if they provide choice to their students in a Public School setting. Am i tracking that correctly . You are tracking that correctly. I grew up in an innovative district that did School Choice from schooltoschool. I did not go to the high school closest to me. I literally drove all the way across town. They had a band program and i liked at all those Different Things, as a middle School Student talked to my mom and ended up in a school way across town, because my district allowed that. I had a great educational experience, but my parents in a Public School setting had a choice within the district of four high schools that they could that i could choose from, and i was allowed to do that. I was the beneficiary of that. By the way, i met my wife at that school, as well, so im forever grateful for a district that just allowed parents to be able to choose what school they went to within a Public School setting. That doesnt seem like a revolution to me. Thats something i did in high school a very long time ago that i understand some districts dont want to do and some states dont want to do, but thats their choice. What youre saying is, if you choose to do that, well help you in that transition and allow parents to have that choice. Am i correct on that . Thats correct. Senator merkley brought up the issue of religious liberty on campus and asked you some questions about protecting religious liberty on campus, as well, which i think is a pertinent question to be able to deal with. This is an interesting conversation that really seems shocking to me thats even a conversation in america at all that we would have to discuss should religious liberty of students be protected. The department of education decided for the First Time Ever to be able to post all of the schools, the higher ed schools, that asked for a title ix religious exemption, to put them in a special place on their website and be able to basically put them out. It appeared to be for shame purposes to say these are all the schools that asked for religious exemptions. And it was a new method, i think, to be able to basically try to humiliate schools to not ask for a religious exemption. Is that something youre going to continue . Will there be a public display of every school . Because it never has been in the past since it was actually put in place in 1972. Theres never been a public release of that, unless someone did a foyer request and, obviously, you can get that through a foyer request. Will there continue to be in a special setting . It doesnt sound like its a necessary thing, and its something i will certainly look into. Well, i think its something that should be looked into. If any institution asks for a religious exemption, thats something the law allows them to do and shouldnt be a way to publicly humiliate folks because they are following the law and following through on that. Same thing, we have some states right now that are experimenting on College Campuses to say if they are an extracurricular group thats honored on campus, just like most other campuses, fraternities, whatever it may be, that have campus access, if the leadership of the organization, not the membership, if the leadership of the organization cant be individuals that actually violate the religious principles of a religious faithbased group, if the leadership of that group is not open to people that are nonpractitioners of that faith, then they cant come on campus and cant have access. Its literally defining for that group of what the religious of that group, of a religiousbased group has to be. I have an issue with that. Its one thing to say your membership should be open to everyone. Its another thing to say the leadership of your group. Do you have an initial impression on that . I think this is an issue that bears a lot more discussion and one that has, i think, come to the fore in recent years in a way we have not seen before. Religious liberty is a very key and important issue to be discussed in the context of all educational settings. Right. This was an issue that president clinton put out a great piece decades ago honoring the religious protections of every individual on every campus. This appeared to have been a subtle issue and suddenly its rising up again, whether on a secondary campus or institution of Higher Education. What is and not permissible for a faithbased student. I just personally believe that every individual should be able to live whatever faith they choose to live or no faith at all and that be acceptable on a campus setting and not try to require them to be able to practice one thing or say you can in writing have one thing but not in practice have another. Thats not consistent with our values, so i appreciate your testimony today. Thank you, senator langford, and thank you secretary devos for being here today. The record will stay open for one week for additional questions. The subcommittee will stand in re recess until 10 00 a. M. Thursday, june 15th. Thank you, mr. Chairman. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] [crowd noise] we will hear from other officials on capitol hill this week. Tomorrow Steve Mnuchin testifies on the president s 2018 budget request and other priorities for his department. That is live at 4 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan3. Later in the day, James Madison and joint chiefs of staff general Joseph Dunford outlined the an pentagons budget request. The House Armed Services Committee Hearings start live at 7 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan2. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas cable Television Companies, and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Here on cspan, newsmakers is next with republican congressmans the stivers of ohio. That is followed by a town hall meeting with wisconsin representative jim sensenbrenner. At 8 00, paul sparrow who oversees different than roosevelt president ial library and museum in hyde park, new york. Ms. Swain our guest on cspans newsmakers this week is steve stivers, republican of ohio, representing that states 15th district. He is taking on the responsibility of heading the National Republican campaign committee, which is to keep republicans in control of the house. As we get started, i want to tell you abo